In yesterday's Weber County Forum article, we discussed an Standard-Examiner "viewpoint" piece by Weber State University President Ann Millner, addressing the ongoing gondola topic, and suggesting that any discussion of the twin gondola projects is entirely premature, inasmuch as gondola advocates have not to date presented anything resembling a coherent and detailed business plan. Like many of us, Dr. Millner has many unanswered questions, of course.
Today's Std-Ex contains what amounts to a "companion piece" to Dr. Millner's article. In today's editorial page "guest commentary," former Mecham administration assistant for special projects, Jay Hudson, takes the discussion a step further, reeling off a series of probing questions that obviously need to be asked of gondola proponents, before public decision-makers or citizens should be called upon to make any serious choices. While Mr. Hudson's queries cannot be necessarily regarded as exhaustive, I believe they illustrate the kinds of questions that are being asked by the Ogden townsfolk. These are some of the things that should be addressed by gondola proponents, in they ever get around to drafting a formal business plan.
Two other Std-Ex articles are also worthy of note, today, I believe.
In the first of these, John Wright highlights the confusion that yet persists over whether the proposed WSU-Malan's Basin gondola leg is intended to connect with the Snow Basin 2002 Olympic venue, or whether it would merely serve Chris Peterson's far more modest Malan's Basin 4-season resort. Some proponents say "yes," and some say "no," while our always-visionary Mayor Godfrey says "maybe." One thing I'll say for the Lift Ogden folks on this question -- they've consistently and scrupulously denied that Chris Peterson's Malan's Basin project is in any way connected with his father-in-law's Snow Basin plans. Of course some of them wink and nod a little bit when they tell us that in face-to-face settings, so who knows what they really believe?
And last but not least, and lest our gentle readers falsely conclude that Weber County Forum has now morphed into some strange "Gondola Forum," I'll now abruptly change the subject back to the upcoming municipal election. In this connection, please take note that the Junior League of Ogden, one of Ogden City's premiere volunteer community institutions, has scheduled a "Meet the Candidates Night," for this coming Tuesday. You can read all about it here. Tuesday night's event is a political must for all Ogden city political junkies, I think. Hopefully, concerned citizens will pack the house, and give our council candidates a good old-fashioned Ogden grilling. Some of the candidates have already come out four-square in favor of both gondola projects. Perhaps somebody in the audience will ask how they've managed to do that, in the absense of a detailed or coherent plan. Don't forget to bring your popcorn. This should be a highly-entertaining event. I've also included a link to the Std-Ex announcement in the right sidebar, within the 2005 election capsule.
So what about our gentle readers? Do any of you have thoughts or comments on any of the articles I've just linked?
And I'm going out to "play" for a little while; so feel free to use this space as an 'open thread," for anything and everything you'd like to discuss.
Comments, anyone?
11 comments:
It looks like Mayor Godfrey is up to his old game -- throw out a few crumbs -- no details -- get support from a few unwitting gullibles -- then tells the world that Ogden wants the gondola! (or the rec center, etc.)
Rudi,
Good info. Recom however you correct the Pres's name, should be Millner, not Milner.
v/r,
t
Thanks, JH.
Here's a better plan. Lets call it the common sense option. When the demand to haul bodies back and forth between the college and the train station warrants it, UTA can buy an extra bus for maybe three hundred grand. When it gets full they can buy another one. etc, etc.
This whole argument between the street car and the gondola is just a red herring. We don't need either one.
If someone wants to build an amusement park ride through the center of town and they can convince the property owners that are effected and if they pay for it themselves, then go for it. Till then why don't they find something worthwhile to think about.
Has the factor of "demand" been lost or forgotten here? Besides being THE pet project of the Mayor's, and some talk about how the gondola will put Ogden on the WORLD map, turn WSU into a WORLD university, take the best football players from USC and Alabama and the best hoopsters from North Carolina and Duke and bring them to their respective teams at WSU, and the United States Ski Team from Park City to Ogden and Steve Winn's next mega-resort hotel down at the old mall site instead of in Las Vegas, what else is driving this thing?
Where are the lines of frustrated students waiting for transportation to the campus? Where are the tourists, who have Ogden Valley, some of golf's most challenging and breathtaking golf courses, and three top notch ski resorts, one of them world class, who have reason now to come to Ogden, lined up, demanding transportation to where-ever (the college or the hospital-nobody really seems to know)?
Quite a roll of the dice, just because some people suggest that all of the above will come true, once the gondola's built and Godfrey wants another toy to play with.
Where is the demand?
Good points, questioner. IMHO, riding bus 603 from WSU to the Intermodal Hub down on Wall really isn't that bad.
Well, Bob, I didn't really forget those entities (Goode, Descente, etc.) as they are already here, doing business, and I doubt they'll fold up their tents if the gondola doesn't achieve fruition. My question was about the "demand" factor, without which there's no need to put something on the board. I'm serously in need of knowing how a gondola will convert Weber State athletics into the National Powerhouse that you people and the coaches seem to think it will. Why will a top running back from So. Central L.A. chose WSU over So. Cal, just because there's a downtown gondola? Seems like a real reach to me.
Area golf course and ski resorts and recreational facilities are in place and functioning, drawing people for years. Why will a gondola increase that? After all, it doesn't shoot from the Inter-modal Hub, up Ogden Canyon to drop a golfer at Wolf Creek GC. I mean, where's the demand?
Demand is a very important factor to consider. I've yet to see waiting crowds on Wall & 23rd, champing at the bit to catch the next bus to the campus....why will a gondola increase those crowds that aren't?
I'm just looking for answers and an explanation. That's why I call myself "the questioner." Enlighten me with some facts, not your view and hope or a history lesson. Let's see what you've got and how this gondola will do everything that you folks claim it will. I'm not saying it won't, but you need to convince me that it will. Until then, your claims are but unanswered questions.
Bob G.
Being that I am not fully recovered from our last tango, I don't want to rile you up to much, but I just have to comment to your last post.
You stated - " we've seen some strong interest and some moderate committment"
Well champ, strong interest doesn't buy the potato's, signed contracts do. And "moderate committment" sounds a lot like almost pregnant to me. You either have committment or you don't, you're either pregnant or your not. Interest is better than no interest but it aint no cigar. When you turn that interest into signed contracts then tell us all about it and we will all give you the big cheer.
And winners do not rely on speculation in my experience. Most of the losers I have known have relied on speculation. Speculation can of course pay off on occasion - ie your example about TRAX, but that is an exception not the rule. Speculation is another word for gambling. Some times you win, but the majority of the time you lose. That is why Las Vegas is so wealthy, it is built on the money of speculating losers. In the old west gold fields there were ten thousand speculating losers for every one speculating winner.
The opportunitiy of not pursuing the gondola is the opportunity to not bankrupt the city on a wild flyer.
This city has done fine for a hundred and half years without any gimmicks like this. The "inferior complex" your group keeps attributing to Ogden is a bunch of hooey! It is a product of your own over active imaginations. It is somethng someone in your outfit thought up to put a negative label on the people that want you to put up or shut up. Same goes for the BS about "well where is your plan if you don't like ours". Who says we need a plan? The Mayor's mud hole and all the rest of his goofy schemes don't mean a bucket of warm spit to the overwhelming majority of Ogdenites who get along just fine living in this great town. All this stuff isn't even a blip on the radar of most people in town.
Sure there are problems just like in any other old town, but the good in Ogden far out weighs the bad stuff. The problems will be resolved in their own good time by private business following the money. The reason the things that are screwed up are that way is because some politicians, past and present, got in there and interefered with private enterprise. Just because they got a bunch of people to vote for them doesn't mean they have a lick of sense about business.
The Mall mess is a good example. If some prior generation of morons in public office had not torn down our fantastic 1880's main street - with a friggen RDA by the way - and built that hidious mall, we would not have that mess there. Instead we would have a down town that would be the envy of every city in the country. Instead we have a toxic mud hole that is the product of several generations of dumb ass decisions by dumb ass politicians.
People like the Mayor and other political wonks, along with free loading developers are the bain of society. They destroy way more than they ever create, and they create way more blight than they cure. You and your organization are just being played by these political sleaze balls, and the son-in-law, for their own purposes - in my opinion.
The mud hole will turn into something good when legitimate economic forces make it happen. Meanwhile relax and look east to the mountains or around your own neighborhood and tell me things are rotten in paradise. Call it the status quo if it makes you feel any better, those mountains have been there for millions of years, ya can't get any more status quo than that!
I admire your drive to improve Ogden, but I really think you ought to lighten up a bit and enjoy it for what it is instead of condeming it for what it aint.
You got a lot of good years ahead of you, I suggest you use them and your considerable talent to get rich for the benefit of your family. Then if you still feel like you do about the gondola you can build it with your spare change.
Bob G.
Nice try at disqualifying my opinion, but no cigar!
Ogden is my home town. I was born in Ogden. I was raised in Ogden. I own property and pay taxes in Ogden. I own a business in Ogden. My parents, grandparents, great grand parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brother and sister are buried in Ogden. I have hundreds of relatives and friends in Ogden. I love Ogden and I ainta gonna shut up about what I think is going on in Ogden!
Just because I live a short piece down the road from Ogden does not mean squat!
If the Gondola works for you, why don't you cut the BS and build the damn thing - with private money?
Bob G.
Your treatise on marketing 101 may or may not be correct. What works for J&J doesn't really apply to what you are attempting to do with the gondola idea.
Swaying public opinion and getting the citizens of Ogden enthused about this gondola is a hell of a lot different than selling band aids. I can't see any significant companies commiting to move here based on a gondola idea. A finished gondola maybe, although that is a bit of a stretch also.
I have done a lot of deals in my time. Some worked, some didn't. I lost my ass but learned a heck of a lot from the ones that didn't. I made a lot of cash but learned very little from the ones that did. All that to say I have developed a pretty good eye for both good and bad deals.
You tell me not to worry because your working hard to get it done without tax payer money. That begs the question of why are you continuing this PR effort if you're not looking for public assistance?
Actually I am not worried as I don't think you will ever pull this deal off. You have a mighty big mountain to climb with this one, and as I told you before, I think you have already lost this first PR round. All the cheer leading and boring facts and marketing lessons you are doling out is for naught. Your only preaching to your own choir. You're certainly not changing any minds, especially the ones that are strongly opposed.
The vast majority of people don't care. It doesn't effect their lives one way or the other, unless you try to get them to pay for it. If and when it comes to having the public pay for it though, you will run up against a firestorm orchestrated by your opponents. The sleeping and non skiing and non gondola riding public may very well shove it down your throat!
The only thing you're doing by keeping the pot stirred is helping the naysayers perfect their arguments against you. These perfected arguments will then ring loud and clear with the hoi polloi who will become aware and interested when asked to pay. All your high fallutin economic and marketing arguments won't mean a thing to them. People react to stuff like the gondola on emotional arguments not boring facts from some marketing class at Weber College. At that time you will have the facts and your opponents will have the big hammer and well developed emotional arguments to smash your facts. Folks do get emotional when asked to slap leather for stuff that doesn't directly effect them.
My free advice, once again, is leave it alone and just go about your business of putting the deal together and raising the money to do it. You have already lost the first round for the hearts and minds of the masses. You're putting them to sleep with your facts and figures and expert analysis. Every time you speak up you get it shoved down your throat by loud chest thumping anti's who draw more attention than you do - especially on this blog.
The only ones you will ever have to convince are the fat cats that write the check and the ones who will be directly affected along the route. If you do not expect the public to write that check, then you don't have to sell them. When you have that check in hand the majority of the public will embrace you and the gondola.
I like you and your enthusiasm, and for your sake I hope you can pull this long shot off. However, I ainta gonna bet on it.
Ya know how the those Hollywood gossip columnists and paparazzi coin a name for the movie stars who find themselves and item, like Jennifer Lopez and Ben Afleck was called "Benifer;" and Tom Crusie and Katie are expecting a baby and they're calling it "TomKat?"
Well, we seem to have the same deal here, gentle readers....
This constant bickering discourse that goes on and on between Ozboy and Bob G....I think they should now be known as:
"OzBob"
The name fits either guy, ya dig?
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