Wednesday, March 29, 2006

Weber State Should Not Sell its Birthright for "Lukewarm Mush"

By L. Mikel Vause -- Std Ex Guest commentary.

I read with interest Ed Allen’s March 22 letter to the editor headlined “Peterson’s plans include exciting venues.” I found his opening line — “I can hardly wait to hear more about the proposals by Chris Peterson and Ogden City” — a bit disingenuous, as Dr. Allen, a leader in the Lift Ogden organization as well as Mayor Godfrey’s father-in-law, likely knows more than anyone in the community, besides Chris and Matt, about the “plans” and has been part of sharing those plans with a few of Ogden’s select individuals.

Yet for one knowing so much, I find it interesting, not to mention a bit disconcerting, when he levels criticism at the layout of Mt. Ogden Golf Course when it appears he’s done so little research as to understand its purpose.

A number of years ago, Weber State University removed two small dirt parking lots in the area of campus that is now the Lindquist Plaza and the duck pond.

At the time, there was much concern and not a little criticism for such a move as, even then, parking was a premium. But what building the plaza and duck pond did for the university was allow it to expand east with the additional parking for the stadium, gym area and the health-sciences areas. Because WSU is built in the foothills of Ogden’s east bench, there is an inherent problem with storm water runoff, and every square yard of cement or asphalt exacerbates the problem and threatens homes and businesses that lie on the western and down-slope side of the campus.

The duck pond, while taking up some parking spaces, serves as a much-needed catch basin for the yearly run off.

Likewise the design of Mt. Ogden Golf Course, with its narrow, doglegged fairways, allowed designers to maintain much of the indigenous flora to protect the properties west of the course and park from runoff.

Over the years the design has had to be modified. A few years ago we experienced a very intense thunderstorm that put down an extraordinary amount of water and hail, which caused some flooding due to the inadequacy of the storm sewers. Several homes on the west side of Taylor Avenue, adjacent to the golf course and park, were damaged.

This led to the installation of a storm drain near the intersection of 32nd Street and Taylor Avenue, as well as a berm along the west edge of the park to direct runoff into the drain. Every square inch of development along Ogden’s east bench needs to be very carefully considered for several reasons:

  • Once our foothills and open space are developed, they are gone forever and will likely benefit only the developer and those few wellenough-off to afford new homes in pricey subdivisions.

  • And unless millions of dollars are spent to upgrade the city’s failing infrastructure, people living downhill will have their property threatened.
Like Dr. Allen, I, too, “hope Weber State University will look seriously at the proposals,” and do the responsible thing and not sell its birthright for some lukewarm mush.

Vause is a professor in the English Department at Weber State University, and a member of Smart Growth Ogden (smartgrowthogden.org).

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bravo.

He's asking the right questions. Not all of them, but some of them and some of the most important. Questions that, so far as I can tell, no one on the Mayor's staff or at Lift Ogden or Mr. Peterson are asking. So, kudos, Prof. Vause. Keep on keepin' on.

So many questions.

So few answers.

Anonymous said...

Does any one know if Weber State is seriously considering selling off any of its land for this scheme? It seems like the school has very little land left for any future expansion.

I assume that the school administration is in possesion of some common sense. If that is the case, do they really think that having a gondola in Ogden will be the answer to the school's current and future problems - as advertised by the gondolists?

Being connected to down town or a ski resort by a gondola surely will not magically turn Weber into a major world class University - will it? If so, how exactly would that work?

Being fifteen minutes away from a ski slope certainly will not bring the kind of students to the school that would add to its academic credibility - would it? Ski bums maybe, but surely not future scientists, teachers and captains of industry.

This whole gondola thing is a product of some over active imaginations. It is not backed up by any rational proofs. I would be very dissapointed in the Weber State powers that be if they went along with this idiocy.

Anonymous said...

There is a terrific article written about Vause on the Ogden Gondola Blog website today...

RudiZink said...

OK. To save our gentle readers the trouble of trying to navigate, use and peruse the barely-functional and half-baked Ogden Gondola "Website," I'm posting the text of this so-called "terrific" article here:

-----------

Few Extremists Aim to Block Ogden Gondola

With the "english professor from Weber State" in desperate need of attention or trying to add meaning to his existence by writing editorial after editorial, holding secret obstruction tactic meetings, or brow beating any 18 year old, fee laden, college student who dares question his "smart growth" philosophies, it is clear the opposition to the Ogden Gondola and what will resurrect Ogden is being orchestrated by a few anti-progress extremists.

Clearly "the english professor from Weber State", the opposition ring leader has little business knowledge as the Gondola would increase student enrollment and therefore his customer base! Imagine Bill Gates holding anti-technology rallies! I would NEVER compare the "english professor from Weber State" to Bill Gates, but that is a valid equivalent.

There has been [sic] recent letters to the editor and other forms of disinformation that would be laughable if they weren't so blatantly disruptive to civil debate. These tactics clearly show the lack of valid argument and the perception of panic, and fear mongering!

I have had many emails from folks that live out of Utah who can't understand the opposition and the lack of public understanding of the project.

We need to build this Gondola! It will be great for Ogden and it's rebirth. Doing so will not only give identity to an almost forgotten, struggling small town, but will ensure a future for the folks who call Ogden home.

Fear mongering? LOL! Excuse me, but that sounds A BIT ad hominem, at the very least. This argument could also have some logical "red herring" and "strawman problems, too.

-----------

"Clearly," says the author, hahaha.

Oh, the trials and tribulations we go through at Weber County Forum, in order to promote intelligent discussion in our community!

Anonymous said...

Hey Anon,

Yet again, there is a feable attempt to attack Dr Vause and how he probably does nothing for Ogden except block progress. OgdenGondola/LiftOgden supporters - you are all idiots.

Mike Vause has done more for Ogden in a month than probably any of your so called "gondolites" have done in your lifetime. And based on the majority of the "Gondolites" they average 22 years old.

Dr Vause brings over 2 hundred undergraduate writers from universities and colleges across the US to WSU for the National Undergraduate Literature Conference for over 20 years with guest speaking authors that are HUGE. Check it out, it is happening this week - http://departments.weber.edu/ce/conferences/nulc/

He also fills your beloved downtown conference center every year with a Fall Author event for the Ogden City Schools - ever heard of Stephen Ambroes, Tim O'brian, Jon Krakauer to name a very few? Do you think they come here on vacation? No, Dr Vause has them come and speak at these events.

How about the foothill trails that will be destroyed if this stupid gondola goes up. Who do you think goes up there every Spring and throughout the year to make sure they are accessible and clean for you? Dr Vause and a number of other volunteers from this community. That's right, I'm sure your lazy ass isn't up there, because you are probably waiting to buy your ticket to ride your gondola so you won't tire yourself out.

So until you do a little research on a man who your supporters claim is a "lower class citizen with a chip on his shoulder", and "has done nothing to better Ogden". Think twice before you speak.

Anonymous said...

Before people get in a knot about a gondola or not a gondola someone should come up with actual logical figures on cost to construct, cost to operate and how many homes and businesses will be destroyed to put in the blankety-blank thing.

Where is the money coming from???

There are too many serious things we all face such as keeping our jobs to pay off the 9 trillion dollar debt this country owes that compounds every second as we draw in a breath.

It is a waste of time to even consider a gondola regardless of which side of the controversy you may be on.

I certainly will not take sides with the persons who run down Dr. Vause for his factual statements.

More power to him.

ArmySarge said...

IF this idiotic thing must be built, let it traverse Wall Avenue where there is more than enough room and a lot of business - not right through neighborhoods where the street will be significantly narrowed. This has got to be one of the absolutley dumbest ideas I ever heard of. Since it is for ski people, let them pay for it - EVERY PENNY!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Dr. Vause! Not only for an excellent article , but for all he does to better WSU, serve his students and thus the community, and for keeping the trails in good shape for others to enjoy. Bravo!
He gave some interesting facts about flooding on the west side of the Mt. Ogden Golf Course and the problems residents have suffered.

Two friends and I attended the "Ethics" discussion at WSU today. The one that was supposed to feature Matt Godfrey. Guess what? He cancelled. Oxymoron anyway isn't it? Ethics and Godfrey in the same breath.
There's another book title for you: "Ethics, Godfrey, and Other Oxymorons."
From what I've read, WSU hasn't committed to any hare brained schemes on the gondola or the 'gated community.' I cannot see how a gondola will bring an influx of students here. Don't we want young people who are SERIOUS about an education that prepares them to step into the world armed with knowledge and abilities and something to offer employers?
How to board and ride a &^%$^! *%$@ gondola doesn't seem to be a red hot item on a resume!
I think the 2.5 million coming from the fortuitous burning of the Shupe Williams Building should be spent on infrastructure in Ogden. Not one penny for Peterson, Ernest, gondola makers, or any other endeavor or scheme! If Ernest really wants to locate here, then they can do as they have done in other cities....build their little hospital with their own money!
Peterson can build his legacy gondola UP the canyon with his (and Earl's) money! If the Hispanic Center is built, that outfit can secure it's own financing also.
Ogden's real needs must be addressed first.
IF the Hispanic Center becomes a reality, I'd like to see another "OLVERA STREET" such as is in Los Angeles. NO punks and gang bangers loitering and worse. A taste of the Mexican culture, and a fun and interesting place to visit. Has anyone visited Olvera Street?
Again, kudos to Dr. Vause....and the letter writers (who managed to get their letters published in the SE) for stating their opinions about the gondola, trails and Mt. Ogden Golf Course.

Anonymous said...

Here's a rundown of my biggest problems with the gondola idea and those who are pushing it.

1. As far as public transit goes, it's impractical. There are so many other important destinations in Ogden besides the intermodal hub and WSU (like the library on 25th, McKayDee, etc.) To have a public transit system that only goes from Point A, and then a couple of miles to Point B, is absurd. And before you call me some naysayer who's against progress and who can't think of any better solutions, here's one that I haven't heard: how about having some form of lightrail in Ogden, not unlike Trax? I'm betting that it would better serve the needs of Ogden than some gondola that only goes from Wall Ave. to WSU.

2. If the gondola did go up, it would be novel at first, but after a while the novelty would wear off and it would probably become an eyesore.

3. I'm sorry, but having a gondola in Ogden isn't going to make WSU a more desirable school to attend and/or a world class university, and if you think it is, than you're living in the land of Oz. Think back to when you were in high school - did people say "I'm going to go to college in such a such city because it has such and such form of public transportation?" I didn't think so.

Anonymous said...

We had an authority on the efficacy of bringing back trolleys to revitalize downtowns.

Anyone else attend that event couple months ago?

They go where shoppers want to go and get off. They make frequent stops. Federal money is available!!!! And they are charming.

Anonymous said...

Mike Vause accuses Dr. Allen of being Disengenuous! Funny!

How disengenous is the name "SMARTGROWTH OGDEN"! Their only concern is stopping the gondola. They have no intentions of being Smart or encouraging economic growth. They came about only at the moment that the gondola idea was presented. If the gondola project does not come to fruition, I'll bet you never hear another word from them. I'll bet they don't spend 2 hours promoting and working on an alternative way to deliver economic growth to Ogden.

Mike Vause doesn't want this change because he doesn't want new people here that might realize that he is bald!

For those gentle readers that don't understand what I just said.... He's affraid that someone might come into town that would realize that this English professor needs to stick to quoting Falkner and Shakespear rather than pontificating about how much he knows about economic development and business.

Silly professor!

Anonymous said...

Rudi,
Why do you allow this nincompoop, "anonymous", who apparently is stealing someone else's name, to get on here?
He pretends to know what everyone else is thinking.
Is this that bob g. kid again? The one with the infantile temper tantrums?

Anonymous said...

Woopy---Mike Vause brings 200 students here a year! I guess that makes him an expert on business and economic development.

Mike probably hasn't paid a pay roll to employees in his entire life.

Objectivity is not in Mike Vause's scholastic vocabulary!

Anonymous said...

Yep...that 'payroll' excrement is pure Geiger!!!

And, it's Whoopee!! numbskull. Are you a gondola rider? Here for teh thrill of it? Obviously, failed spelling AND logic. That's the caiber of student we can expect to attract with the gondola!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting here, anonymous.

Your juvenile posts speak volumes about the mentality of those unschooled, acne'd teenagers who blindly support the Peterson/Godfrey plan...

whatever it is at the moment.

Please NEVER leave this place.

Always post here so we can continually laugh at your base stupidity.

Continue to post your mindless crap here, so we adults will have something extra to laugh about as we usher our littlest carpet-bagger mayor back to Harrisville on a rail, with tarred feathers plastered all over his tiny body in 2007.

Figuratively speaking, of course...

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

You all struggle.

You assume that I am Bob G.

To say that the term "Smartgrowth" Ogden is sincere is silly.

To define as "ILLOGICAL" a claim that "SmartGrowth Ogden" is a disengenous term for a group whose sole purpose is stopping the construction of a gondola is another indication of your single/simple-minded approache to doing nothing but oppose, disrupt, discredit and vilify.

Anonymous said...

teh caiber of writers here is amazing! Especially when they are trying to make a point.

RudiZink said...

"Why do you allow this nincompoop, "anonymous", who apparently is stealing someone else's name, to get on here?"

I leave his posts up to illuminate the stark contrast between the mindset of the "Gondola Cultists," and the rational arguments and questions of intelligent people, such as Professor Vause.

The gondolist/Godfreyites reveal their intellectual inferiority through their own posts, by sheer contrast.

They are their own worst enemies.

The truth always prevails, when well-presented and argued in an open forum, as it is being done now.

Anonymous said...

hey kid, it isnn't just the gondola...we're against trips to Italy and Switzerland, England, D.C., etc without proper authiztion or purpose! Also, dragging Curt and Chris along ...Curt on the taxpayer's dime....Mt. Ogden Golf Course being sold to Peterson....the infrastructure going to seed while matt searches for a legacy. And, so much more.

Anonymous said...

Yes, there is a stark contrast between teh caiber of the gentle readers of the WCF and teh caiber of the gondola supporters.

The truth will prevail.

Anonymous said...

Not so long ago, the late Bob Hope was hoping to put some sort of golf course/gated community development in his home town of Toluca Lake, Calif. The locals opposed to Hope's scheme sported bumper stickers that said, "HONK if you think Bob Hope has enough money."

For the life of me, I cannot fathom what Ed Allen's motivation could be in founding Lift Ogden and promoting his patently foolish gondola scheme. He has enough money. He is smart enough to know that Vause's arguments about ecological concerns are sound. Is it some Freudian-Shakespearian complex, wherein he must avenge his former mayor father's banishment to Colorado?

Speaking of Freud, these punk gondola cheerleaders are of a piece with pubescents who obsess over firearms catalogs and Soldier of Fortune magazine until they become sexually active and leave that stuff behind. Give us a break, guys; get laid ... please!

Anonymous said...

Having ecological concerns is fine. We all have them.

There is no senario in which Mike Vause's ecological concerns could be quenched except - BUILD NO GONDOLA!

Certainly there is a logical place where there is a balance between addressing ecological concerns, honoring private property ownership and pursuing economic growth in our community.

The inability to pursue a logical balance is an attribute of those in favor of the Gondola. It is not an antribute of Smartgrowth or Mike Vause.

Anonymous said...

By the way...my claims of Mike Vause's lack of objectivity are limited to the subject of the Gondola. I have no evidence to suggest that he lacks objectivity in other matters. I know for a fact that this issue is completely emotive for him.

Anonymous said...

Your last two post are a tribute to illogic, anonymous.

Please make your arguments rationally.

Your last posts amount to predetermined conclusions, supported by illogical gibberish.

Sorry. It's probably not your fault.

Maybe you don't know any better.

It's certainly not your fault you're an illogical dunce, I'm sure.

Anonymous said...

It would be very disappointing if the young Prisbrey wrote this nonsense that appeared on his blog. I have been under the impression that he was smarter than what this drivel would indicate.

To say that an English Professor:
"shows a desperate need for attention and attempting to add meaning to his existence by writing editorials"
is pretty stupid on the face of it. Isn't writing one of the things English Professors do?

And to slam this guy for:
"holding secret obstruction tactic meetings, or brow beating"
is very disingenuous coming from a dyed in the wool Godfreyite! After all, this is exactly what Godfrey and his stooges do routinely!
And to further say that the anti gondola crowd is only a "few anti-progress extremists" is just plain silly considering the very small group that is promoting this junk! This is about as cheeky as it gets!

Further to say that this goof ball scheme will resurrect Ogden is blatantly stupid with absolutely no proof, studies, or precedence that would indicate this could or would happen. Besides, Ogden doesn't need resurrection. Ogden is not dead! Even if it were, this dumb assed gondola would not be the magic wand to bring it back to life anymore than the mayor's moronic high tech wreck scheme!

This babble continues to say:
"the english professor from Weber State, the opposition ring leader has little business knowledge as the Gondola would increase student enrollment and therefore his customer base!"
Again, this concept is just pure fantasy conjured up by a bunch of opportunists that are spoon feeding this nonsense to their incredibly naive, young and rabid followers, none of whom have a lick of business sense.

He praddles on with:
"Imagine Bill Gates holding anti-technology rallies! I would NEVER compare the "english professor from Weber State" to Bill Gates, but that is a valid equivalent."
I would never make this comparison but I am?
More nonsense that demonstrates the irrationality and disconnect with reality that this whole gondola crowd seems to be suffering from.

Another very strange passage:
"There has been [sic] recent letters to the editor and other forms of disinformation that would be laughable if they weren't so blatantly disruptive to civil debate. These tactics clearly show the lack of valid argument and the perception of panic, and fear mongering!"
In other words "if you do not agree with our fantasy you are being disrutive to civil debate!" This is actually pretty funny!

This entire piece is a perfect example of the total disconnect from reality that the Godfreyite and Gondola cult suffers from.

To borrow a line from Joe Kline:
"This is a combination of utopian fantasy and near criminal incompetence!"

Anonymous said...

One point:

For evidence that SmartGrowthOgden is not simply an anti-gondola organization, I invinte readers to click on over to

www.smartgrowthogden.org

to read the group's prospectus and postings on various matters involving Ogden's future and so to see for themselves.

Anonymous said...

The folowing from Wikipedia. Does this fit the mind set of Godfrey, Allen, Geiger etc. or what?

Christ complex (also superiority complex) is a psychological term used loosely to describe any individual mentally fixed on superiority or the claim of being a savior. There are many types of disorders in which the Christ complex comes into play. The extreme example is a psychopath: Someone who comes to operate without any regard for other humans.

Anonymous said...

Does this describe any one we know?

Also from Wikipedia:

In the fields of psychology and psychoanalysis, Napoleon complex (or Napoleon syndrome) is a colloquial term used to describe a type of inferiority complex suffered by people who are short. The term is also used more generally to describe people who are driven by a perceived handicap to overcompensate in other aspects of their lives.

Alfred Adler pioneered the psychological work on inferiority complexes, and used Napoléon Bonaparte as an example of someone who he thought was driven to extremes by a psychological need to compensate for what he saw as a handicap: his small stature. Typically people with this complex will compensate in many ways, reaching beyond their personal performance. A person with a Napoleon Complex may set pictures in their home to lower levels and make other such accommodations which will enable them to feel taller in their surroundings.

Compensatory behavior exhibited by those with a Napoleon complex may also include being overly aggressive or argumentative and a need to over-achieve, which all serve to give the person a sense of greater self worth.

Anonymous said...

Ed Allen doesn't have a Christ complex....he thinks he's God! And, fortunately for him, his scrawny little mayor-in-law has a a god name to define both their god complexes!
The father and the son?
He, through his little son-in-law, wants a Kennedyesque dynasty.
Well, I sat through a mind and bum numbing LiftOgden sea of babble tonight.
What a bunch of drivel. Mayor didn't tell anything new....just his grandiose scheming. And, Peterson was an embarrassment. He's charming, handsome and totally superficial. Someone around me said, 'this is like a pyramid scheme'.
The mayor is always looking for 'more ways to gain revenue'. How many more buildings can be burned?
Arrogance, ego, and an inflated sense of self-worth will spell disaster for the Ogden taxpayers.

Anonymous said...

Short People got no reason
To live

They got little hands
Little eyes
They walk around
Tellin' great big lies

They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet

Well, I don't want no Short People
Round here

They got little baby legs
That stand so low
You got to pick 'em up
Just to say hello

They got little cars
That go beep, beep, beep
They got little voices
Goin' peep, peep, peep

They got grubby little fingers
And dirty little minds
They're gonna get you every time
Well, I don't want no Short People
Round here

Anonymous said...

haaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaa

I guarantee that is the funniest thing I have EVER read!

Anonymous said...

I remember when that song came out. It was the kind of song that replayed in one's head. Can't remember how the tune goes now, though.

Anonymous said...

kind of a slow sing=song...remember, Dian?

RudiZink said...

Short People MIDI

Anonymous said...

Oh, my. Rudi, thanks--- I remember it now. Still makes me laugh, too.