They've told us we don't have freedom of speech at the workplace. Now it looks like they're pushing that to off-duty and your family members, as well.
Ogden Detective Shawn Grogan
Ogden cop linked to protest van put on leave
Salt Lake Tribune
August 1, 2006
I consider it a “gray” area whether officers' off-duty free-speech rights are broad enough to allow public criticism such as those carried by the moving van.
Ogden Chief of Police Jon Greiner
Ogden cop linked to protest van put on leave
Salt Lake Tribune
August 1, 2006
Off-duty officers and their families are free to express grievances regarding salary issues without fear of reprisal.
Brian Barnard
Salt Lake City Attorney
& First Amendment Litigator
Van focus of Ogden inquiry
Standard-Examiner
August 1, 2006
The Northern Utah print media are all over Emerald City's ticket quota/officer suspension story this morning, with articles in both the Salt Lake Tribune and Standard-Examiner. For the convenience of our gentle readers, we provide links to Kristen Moulten's excellent report, and Scott Schwebke's latest reportorial tour-de-force.
Boss Godfrey and Chief Greiner continue to stick to the preposterous story that Officer Jones's summary suspension had "nothing to do" with Super-sleuth Godfrey's Thurday night stake-out, or the suppression of First Amendment rights. And a new wrinkle seems to have been added to the administration's posture: That the OPBA allegedly lied about the organization's involvement with the informational panel van project. The administration continues to pursue its draconian reprisal, and persists in painting itself into a corner which may ultimately result in the filing of a potentially-messy civil rights lawsuit.
As to the accusations of "lying," (and judging from his past performance,) we think Boss Godfrey may indeed be projecting.
And what are our gentle readers thoughts today on the latest developments in this matter?
Update 8/2/06 2:34 p.m. MT: For the sake of the continuing reader discussion, and in the interest of those unfortunates (like that attorney guy in Washington, D.C.) who don't have this morning's Boss Godfrey/NeoCON Propaganda Organ edition readily-available for purview, we link today's Scott Schwebke followup story, which uncovers new and seemingly conflicting "facts" surrounding the Super-sleuth Godfrey Caper, and builds the groundwork for the heartless and scurrilous all-out retaliatory personal attack on Officer Jones that many of our gentle readers have predicted.
Update 8/3/06 10:45 a.m. MT: Not to be left out in the cold in the reporting of this story, The Deseret News' Brandy A. Lee files this story in today's morning edition, which is filled to the brim with interesting tidbits. Among these, Utah State Representive Neil Hansen is now calling for an independent investigation.
And Ace Reporter Schwebke continues his series of reports this morning, affording Chief Greiner further opportunity to dig himself in even deeper. We presume Chief Greiner doesn't subscribe to the old cowboy saying: "When you're standing in a hole -- quit digging."
Speaking of old cowboy sayings -- Boss Godfrey was apparently having so much trouble keeping his story straight that he's now reportedly "Gotten Outta Dodge."
We swear we couldn't make up a story like this if we tried.
Update 8/3/06 11:43 a.m. MT: Gentle and alert reader Dian furnishes us a link to the KSL News website, where a print version of last night's 10:00 broadcast story has been uploaded. Be sure to check out KSL's viewer comments section, where 38 comments have already been logged.
135 comments:
Oh my God, what a pack of lies the Chief and Godfrey are telling “The name reminded me I hadn't finished what was going on that day”, obviously Greiner is incompetent to perform his duties if he can’t remember to put an employee on suspension. Then the lying little shits try to twist it to make the Cops look like liars.
I am so sick of the people we have supposedly leading this city, they are nothing more than a bunch of no good lying thugs.
I guess that the United States Constitution is out the window in Ogden. The Administration screws the employees and then attempts to place a gag on them, some may be intimidated, however the majority will not be silenced until justice is served to those perpetrators of this last injustice.
(moved over from yesterday's thread)
The Trib article also states:
Ogden's attorney recently sent an e-mail to all city employees advising them they are not allowed to speak ill of the city while on the job.
I hope this email went to the mayor, who has been going around town for the last four months (e.g., City Council work session, April 13) telling people that Ogden is in a "downward spiral."
At this point I have just one question for the Joneses and the other officers whose freedom of speech is being challenged: How can I help?
Interesting news that Ogden is in a "downward spiral" according to Mayor Godfrey.
For once he sees it like it is.
Too bad he can't recognize that he is the one who started this mess.
Why can't he see that he is accelerating the spiral.
It's because the little Chicken-Shit blames everyone else for his screw-ups.
So, how do we find out if the police officer put up the money for the protest sign, or if the money came from the Police Benefit Association? Why would there be confusion on this on the part of the officer or the Assocation?
On a lighter note, Mayor Godfrey deservingly won today's Boner of the Day on X96's Radio From Hell.
What would happen if EVERY COP, FIREFIGHTER, and many citizens signed a statement that they each had put in a little money to rent the truck?
Would ALL cops and firefighters be put on admin. leave??
Maybe it's time to call in the (gasp) ACLU....they defend First Amendment Rights.
Or, another mayor.....Rocky...who's an ACLU lawyer could come up here and prosecute Matt and Greiner. I'd pay to see that!
Do you think the city's insurance policies will cover both Godfrey AND Greiner in a civil suit??
Can you imagine the dirty jobs Greiner will do for Goofrey IF, God forbid, he wins that Senate seat in November?
What the hell happened to the voters in this town? Goofrey in for two terms, seems like twenty years, or since Goofrey was in kindergarten, and now Greiner the winner in the Primary.
This is what happens when an abusive personality is also afflicted with egotism to the extreme.
The sycophants, including family, bowing before him have helped mire him in his delusions of granduer.
Actually this applies to both G and G.
Where is the sign-up sheet on the
van?
Permit me to politely.... no, actually, I tell a lie. Permit me to gleefully remind the company assembled the the Hon. [?] Chief Grenier [henceforth to be known as "Forgetful John"] is the Republican canidate for a Utah State Senate seat.
Imagine that.
A request to WCForum sleuths, public spirited leakers, etc:
Would it be possible to get a copy of the email Dian referenced in her post, the one reminding city employees not to dis Fair Ogden while on the job, up on WC Forum?
I would very much like to see the text of that. Anyone got it? Is it a matter of public record?
Curm
yeah, yeah, yah,...we all were waiting breathlessly for you to take note that Greiner ran on a Repulbican ticket.
Not only that, but I am quite sure that Godfrey wanted him to split the ticket for Godfrey's 'boy' to be down at the Capitol.
As I said on an earlier thread, every institution has a bad apple, or several.
We should all look nostagically, I suppose, back at the good old MORAL days of Clinton...or the COMPETENCY of Carter?
Those apple barrels are nearly full.
Mercy:
You wrote: "we all were waiting breathlessly for you to take note that Greiner ran on a Republican ticket. "
Well, than... glad I didn't disappoint you. [grin]
But to return to the main topic: what all this suggests to me is that Hizzonah is beginning to panic. He's losing control. I think he's stuck his foot in a mess this time, and has managed to create a real public relations problem for himself and for the city and for Chief Grenier. I suspect the wheels are coming off in lots of ways --- the gondola/Peterson real estate speculation bamboozle, for example --- and his attempt to crack down on any and all opposition to his [you should excuse the expression] "leadership" is an example of his starting to panic at his loss of control. Do I know that for sure? No. But it's hard for me to explain his downright foolish Sam Spade episode involving tracking Officer Jones' wife through the downtown evening streets in any other way.
Now, I wonder, if I were a businessman thinking of investing in a progressive and up-coming city, and I read of Hizzonah's evening escapades, would that make me more confident about investing in Ogden? Or less so? I mean if I were going to invest in something other than a private eye business that intended to sell its services to the the Mayor, that is.
Curiouser and curiouser....
Notice to Ogden City Employees:
There have been several recent reports of City employees making derogatory or disrespectful comments about the City, including the Administration or City Council, supervisors, managers or co-workers, in the course of performing their employment duties. Please be advised that such statements may be subject to disciplinary action.
Being a public employee does not eliminate your rights as a citizen to comment on matters of public concern, even if such matters involve your employer, the City. Therefore, your status as a city employee does not prevent you from commenting as a citizen on a matter of public concern in city council meetings, letters to the editor, citizen meetings, etc., even though your comments may involve City government. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that when a City employee is speaking in the scope of their employment, the City has the right to discipline the employee for statements that may discredit the City or its management or conflict with the City’s policies, goals or interests.
Derogatory and disrespectful statements made pursuant to your employment in the workplace at Ogden City may be subject to disciplinary action, as described in the following provisions of the Ogden City Employee Policy Manual, section 9-6.B:
§9-6.B. Behavior Resulting In Disciplinary Action: In addition to the policies outlined in this manual, the following behavior or conduct may result in disciplinary action, up to and including termination of employment:
3. Violations of applicable departmental rules and procedures. . . .
7. Behavior or activity which reflects an intent to be dishonest or untruthful.
8. Insubordination or disrespectful conduct or language toward members of the public, superiors or other employees.
9. Actions which serve to discredit the name, reputation or public mission or interest of the city. . . .
11. Boisterous or disruptive activity in the workplace; behavior or activity which serves to create disharmony or a disorderly environment without regard for the interest of the city in conducting its business in an efficient, effective and orderly manner. . . .
17. Unsatisfactory performance or conduct.
Please take care that your workplace conduct and statements do not violate the above performance standards.
I request that supervisors provide a copy of this notice to any employee who does not have email access.
Gary R. Williams
Ogden City Attorney
2549 Washington Blvd., Suite 840
Ogden, Utah 84401
Phone (801) 629-8160 Fax (801) 629-8927
GaryWilliams@ci.ogden.ut.us
Anon:
Thank you very much.
After reading the notice to Ogden City Employees, I wonder why the mayor still has his job.
Oh, wait!
Maybe we don't consider him an employee of the city - just its ruler.
Thanks for the info, anonymous.
If you have a formatted version of this Gary Williams document, I'd appreciate your sending it as an attachment via email to this address:
rudizink@yahoo.com
I'd like to upload the formatted document to our archives for our readers' future reference.
Thanks!
Curm - And Stuart Reid ( a D E M O C R A T) is better than Greiner??
Sarge:
Based on what I've seen of Forgetful John Grenier of late, yes. Granted, I would not personally have nominated either one for the office, but if I have to choose between Forgetful John and Reid, and apparently I do, I'll hold my nose, do the dirty deed and vote for Reid.
Consider the alternative.
Momb:
Actually, the mayor as an elected public official is not considered a city employee in the same sense as a policemen, fireman, etc.
I guess I will be the first to say that Gofrey needs to resign.
He has done things that are unbecoming of the Mayor and should do the what is the best intrest of the taxpayer, so that we will not be wraped up in some huge law suits.
I just want to say that I TOLD YOU SO!
and you heard it here first.
Curm wrote:
"...if I have to choose between Forgetful John and Reid, and apparently I do, I'll hold my nose, do the dirty deed and vote for Reid.
Consider the alternative."
I hate to suggest "putting on a show in the barn", but what about a write-in campaign for Dave Thomas, who got 46% of the vote in the Republican Primary. I know Democrats who switched parties to vote for him because they didn't want to have to chose between Greiner and Reid in November.
With the advent of electronic voting, casting a write-in vote may be more difficult, but Thomas might stand a chance, especially if there were a campaign before the election informing voters of how to cast a write-in ballot.
I wonder if a write-in would work...........hmmmmmmm
I woudl write you in Curm but you can't be a senator AND the Mayor...
Anon:
I can't think of a write-in campaign that has worked, even presuming Mr. Thomas would be interersted, which I doubt. Being a Republican and having taken part in a primary, I imagine he would feel himself honor-bound to abide by the results of that primary. I know I would in similar circumstances. And without massive funding and Mr. Thomas' active participation, it would have even less than the vanishingly small chance write in campaigns ever have.
Dave Thomas was approached about this. He told me and others who asked him...'no'.
He doesn't want to further fragment the party. The one who ran against him in the Primary already did that!
It is easy to do a write-in as the voting machines are set up for that.
My first thought on reading Anon's post is that numbers 7, 8, 9, 11, and 17 certainly apply to the mayor...and some others.
He ISN'T an employee of the city? Who signs his check...Hezbolla?
It is interesting that officer Jones was suspended because; ”His actions were unbecoming that of an officer”....What a laugh or a joke.
If you want to see who conduct that ; “Of actions were unbecoming that of a Mayor” it is Godfrey. How many of you have heard that Mayor Godfrey had over spend the budget of the department of the Mayor by almost 200%...
That is the rumor that had been floating around Ogden City Personal shortly before the new fiscal year kicked in on July 1, 2006.
It too bad that the Standard Examiner or the Salt Lake Tribune is unaware of that. However, Ogden city council was fully aware of it themselves.
Mercy:
Doesn't surprise me that Thomas refused. If you take part in an election... any election...you are, it seems to me, agreeing to be bound by the results of that election [just as you would expect others to be bound by the results should the outcome go your way.] Given that, I would not much trust someone who stood in a primary, then bolted and ran as an independant or write-in candidate if he lost. [Whatever respect I had for Mr. Lieberman died the minute he filed as an independant candidate, saying he would run as an independant if he lost the Democratic primary and so was not nominated by the party.] Had he withdrawn from the Democratic Primary, and said he was running as an independant, my respect for him would still be intact. But you don't take part in an election, if you are an honorable candidate, and then run some other way if you loose.
Mr. Thomas has made the right decision. The only puzzling thing is how a man with that sense of integrity and honor can consider himself a Republican. Very strange.
Oh Curmie,
You KNOW you're coming over to the RIGHT side when you start giving, even oblique, compliments to a Republican.
But then, what's not to admire about SENATOR Dave Thomas?
Since we cannot vote for Greiner...and Reid is not an option under any circumstance either...we will just leave that part of the ballot unchecked.
First time ever in an election!!
Armysarge,,
George Garwood IS mayor and running for Representative.
He said at the convention that he had no intention of resigning his mayoral post.
I'm anxious to read Dian's report on the council doings tonight.
What I want to know is how many citizens, firefighters and cops showed up to speak out FOR Officer Jones and AGAINST the egregious behavior of the mayor and police chief.
And before you ask why I didn't...I couldn't attend.
WHEN is this council going to do the job they are empowered to do...amend the ordinances that were gutted by the 'old' council...start being a legislative body, and fulfill the campaign promises they made?
I hear a lot of grumbling and grousing about the disloyalty of many to the HPS's...and the apparent lack of unity of purpose and the sniping going on amongst the members.
This isn't high school STUDENT council...it's time to come together for all the people and stop being (seemingly) afraid to cross Godfrey.
Does the council have the authority to censure this man??
Some on the council will be coming up for reelection. Perhaps some won't run again. Fine. But while they are there now, they need to knuckle down and do their job.
Those who hope to re-up shouldn't order any campaign signs unless they start shaping up.
Mercy:
Goin' fishin' is an old and honorable election day tradition in the US. Here's where I get into arguments with those who argue it is unAmerican not to vote. Nonsense. So long as your not voting is a decision on your part [and not the result of laziness or can't-be-botheredness], it's as much a fulfilment of your responsibilities as showing up and pulling the lever for one candidate or another. If your conclusion is "a pox on both of 'em," then "goin' fishin'" is your choice as a voter. Exercise it in good conscience.
Sharon, the council meeting lasted seven minutes, for those of us that was a little bit late it was over when we arrived.
I was dissatisfied with the SE report today. I thought the paper made Godfrey and Greiner look clean and Officer Jones looked like he screwed up. If the info posted in the WCF is accurate; Godfrey and Greiner may be guilty of a crime. IF they ARE guilty of crime; is not the paper now an accomplice in helping them weasel out of it? Wasn’t the SE story pure spin?
One thing is certain. Banners are mightier than the sword where opposing Godfrey is concerned.
hey Gofrey, it looks like that you have been cought in a lie. why don't you explain how much integrity you now have. and just resign already!!!
in·teg·ri·ty
1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.
4. Honest with one-self.
5. Moral soundness
I guess that with this difinition. I wonder of the little man every had any integrity. I find that he is never honest with himself or his fellow beings, and when a person belives himself to be something that he is not, he decives himself and the truth is not with him. (Bible)
So Curm, aint Leiberman a big time Demoncrat who was caught on camera getting kissed by Bush the Junior?
Talk about a kinky relationship. The offspring would probably turn out a lot like Godfrey.
Isn't he also the so called liberal who was all gung ho about this very evil Republican war against Arab men, women and children?
As said before on this blog, there isn't much difference between Repub's and Demo's. They are equally useless and bad for the country.
Whatever is great about America is so inspite of these two political parties, not because of them.
The last great political party was the Bull Moose Party wherein TR bolted the republican party because they chose Taft over TR in spite of TR winning an overwhelming number of primaries. TR running as a "progressive" (Bull Moose) kicked Taft's butt in the general election. Unfortunately he in turn was beat by Wilson who squeaked in because of the split vote on the Republican side. Wilson then slid us into WWI. In fact, democrats were at the helm when the US entered every war since 1860 - except the two ill advised Gulf fiasco's which belong to the Bush's.
Sooo, Thomas wouldn't be the first Repub that split from the party after being spurned at the alter.
I personally feel that all politicians of both parties should be shot. The world would be a whole lot better for it.
ozboy,
there is one really good policital person in this part of the world and I think you know who i'm thinking of.
As of Aug 2, it's been 77 days since SGO asked Godfrey their 22 questions. Has he even answered one? He shouldn't have time to stalk our officer's wives if he can't even answer one of SGO's 22 objective, un-biased questions.
Ozboy...wanna be our mayor?
Anon...tell us quick: who's the only good politician that only you and Ozboy know!
Standard Examiner is sellouts.
They were looking like they finally went to bat for the Officer and his Wife. But todays spin in the S E. They definitely were hook line and suckered by Mayor Pee Wee and Chief Rosco Pee Ko Train. As Cops would say “they threw him under the bus.”
Who said we were Mayor Pee Wee and Chief Rosco Pee Ko Train?
Were going to launch an investigation! We’ll find you bucko and you’ll be in big fat trouble…..
Sorry Abner,
Old Ozboy doesn't qualify to be mayor in Ogden. His parents were married.
Ozboy:
You wrote: "I personally feel that all politicians of both parties should be shot. The world would be a whole lot better for it."
Well, Oz, it's exactly this kind of nihilism that makes it possible, even easy, for folks like Little Matty Godfrey to get elected to office. The more folks who take your view, that all politicians are crooks and liars, that it doesn't make any damn difference who gets in, the happier the little Matty Godfreys of this world are.
It does matter. And politics is not some dirty little game restricted the the corrupt few. It's how we staff decision-making offices in this country. It matters. A lot. However good it might make you feel to go around shouting you'd like to shoot all the politicians, it accomplishes nothing and in fact makes it easier for the corrupt and incompetent ones to take and hold power.
Fact is, we need politicians. Politics is how, again, we staff the government [at every level]. And the more people who sign on to your view that they're all crooks, and it doesn't matter who gets in, the less chance we have of putting good ones in office to make the laws and policies we have to live under. To spend our money. And so on.
Is no one complaining about the improper actions of the officer BEFORE any of this dispute came out? Or, is it selective ethics day today?
Inappropriate actions by police are given a pass, but inappropriate actions by the mayor are, of course, treasonous?
Right on, Curm,
We do, unfortunately, need some political structure since we are not quite civilized enough to operate under anarchy. Anarchy has been portrayed by the political status quo as a state of chaos. Quite the opposite is true. Anarchy is the absence of political powers and THEIR assumption that without them we only have chaos is contrary to the fact that it is them that bring us the chaos.
Also kudos for standing up for voting or not by conscious choice. I have CHOSEN to NOT vote in many elections. The few I have CHOSEN to vote in have left me with such a sour taste that I stand strong with the CHOICE to ABSTAIN. Congressional and other local bodies are allowed abstentions yet citizens are constantly browbeaten to vote or don't complain. An abstention is as strong a statement as any other vote.
Anon,
These alleged "inappropriate" actions by Officer Jones haven't been disclosed - and probably haven't been documented. I'm sure Greiner had some sort of beef with him in addition to the banner; but it's far too coincidental that Greiner puts him on leave immediately following the mayor's corny stake-out. If Greiner had any of intentions of taking Jones' gun and badge; he'd have sent him a written warning first - that's just basic management. If Greiner HAD written a warning, I'm sure he'd have mentioned that to the SE. If all of my speculation is true, Greiner has shown who he's in bed with. The mayor has documented his own foolishness in this matter numerous times. So of course it's easy to criticize the mayor's imprudence. To my reckoning, he's in gross violation of the first amendment. I’m sure Matt and John are conniving a grocery list of improper conduct concerning Officer Jones even as we speak (again assuming the WCF has been accurate in their reporting).
Anon:
Well, the fact is we don't know if there have been several serious inappropriate actions by the officer before his wife began her van parking activities. There may be serious matters the police review system is looking into, there may not be. Such personnel matters are [wisely] not made public until they end in some kind of discipline or are dismissed.
This is a wise policy. It is not uncommon for unsubstantiated charges to be leveled against officers by angry citizens ticked off about a ticket or being arrested or not getting what they want in some way from a beat cop. All such must be investigated, because some charges are valid, but they don't become public until they are resolved.
The officer involved has lawyered up, which is wise on his part, and his atty has advised him to stop making public statements, which is wise on his part. Chief "Forgetful John" Grenier has also stopped commenting, which I think he wishes he had done a lot earlier, because he is not supposed to discuss disciplinary matters currently being investigated.
It makes no more sense for us out here to leap to the conclusion that the officer involved has committed repeated serious violations as it would be for us to leap to the conclusion that he has not. We, at this point, don't know. The process has been started, and we'll have to await the outcome, which neither you or I know yet.
The problem for Forgetful John and Little Matty Godfrey is that the timing of all this looks very very suspicious. Forgetful John having the officer suspended just two hours after Little Matty called to complain to the chief about the officer's wife's driving the van. The chief claiming he was going to suspend the officer that morning, but gosh darn it, just forgot, until the call from Matty "Sam Spade" Godfrey about the officer's wife reminded him, and so on.
And we have as well Forgetful John's first statement to the press saying the officer's wife's actions driving the van were enough to warrant the Chief's investigating the officer's conduct. I suspect if Forgetful John Grenier could take back just one statement he made to the press so far, that would be the one.
So settle down, Anon. We're all going to have to be patient for a while to see how the disciplinary procedure plays out. Not until then can any of us begin to draw any firm and fast conclusions about his alleged misconduct, and about the conduct of Chief Grenier in all this. It isn't just the officer's credibility and reputation that is on the line here. Forgetful John's is too. Which he may wish to keep in mind the next time Mayor Godfrey decides to play detective and calls him up demanding action.
I understand why Forgetful John and Sam Spade Godfrey are miffed about all the suspicion that has arisen about their actions and motives in all this. But for that, they have only themselves and their own actions and statements to blame.
This MAY well be true. HOWEVER, no matter what this officer MAY or MAY NOT have done previously in NO WAY condones what the Mayor did. He was wrong - that is all there is to it!
Sarge:
Absolutely right. The officer's previous alleged actions in no way excuse the mayor's childish and arrogant behavior in all this. I should have noted that. Thanks for making the point.
To abner said... I know George Garwood is Mayor (of South Ogden) so, why where you directing this comment to me...I said nothing about Mr. Garwood. Just curious....
Everyone--don't jump down my throat for asking the question, but, for clarity's sake, what exactly did the mayor do "wrong?"
"Wrong" ethically and/or "wrong" legally?
Let's not guess or assume--what do we know?
We don't know what the police officer allegedly did previously--fair enough.
What do we know the mayor did that is illegal and what exactly did he do that was unethical? For example, is it really illegal to trace someone's license plate? Are you sure about that?
I am asking this question for the sake of clarity.
Just read the Tribune article. Here is the quote; “ Police Chief Jon Greiner said Monday that it was only coincidental that Jones was put on leave the same night.”
Here is another quote form the baseball ledged Yogi Bearra’ “It is to coincidental to be coincidental”.
In other words, “How big of fools does the Chief of Police think that we the readers and citizens are”? If he thinks we are fools now?!
Just think how much bigger fools he must think we are? Especially if he is wins the majority votes and elected to the Utah Senate after this political mess has been revealed in the new media????
Anon:
On the SE as sellouts: just what is your problem with today's article in the SE? It reported Chief Grenier's comments, his latest attempt to wiggle out of the dilemma the mayor dropped him into,it reported a previous disciplinary proceeding involving the officer and how it was resolved, it went to the officer for a reaction and reported it, it reported the city atty's refusal to comment on the legality of the mayor using police resouces to look up the license plate of a woman he was following around in his car, it reported the Chief's concession that the timing makes him look bad, it reported Councilwoman Jeske's skepticism about the Chief's explanation. [Which skepticism I share.]
What exactly is wrong with the SE story, then?
Anon:
Fair enough. A fair question civily put. Let me take a stab at answering, avoiding speculation and sticking to what we so far know.
Let's take just two points. First: the officer's wife does not work for the city [so far as I know]. She has an absolute right to make [within the law] whatever political statements she wants to make on the side of a truck she is driving on her own time. It seems to me to have been clearly unethical for the Mayor of Ogden to be following this woman around in his car in the evening in order to learn who she was so he could put pressure on her husband to get her to stop. [He has admitted doing that, as has Chief Grenier. That was the purpose of his asking the the license plate be "run" by the police.]
Second: he used police resources to run her license plate to learn who she was. The SE this morning reported that it asked the city atty to comment on the legality of using police resources to satisfy the curiosity of the mayor about the identity of a woman he was following around downtown in a car. The city atty refused to comment, the SE reported. [Note: he did not reply that what the mayor did was an appropriate use of police resources.]
That all seems sufficient to me to raise a not-trivial question about the integrity and ethics of the Mayor's actions that night.
I hate to be picky, but which is it? On Thursday, in the SL Trib, Greiner mentioned that Officer Jones was going to be put on admin leave earlier in the day (referring to sometime on Thursday prior to the Van Incident). In today’s SE, Greiner was quoted as saying Jones was going to be put on admin leave Friday morning, but decided to do it Thursday evening after what happened w/ the Van Incident. Am I missing something here, did he just contradict his original statement? The Mayor and Chief need to get their stories straight.
SGT,
I was replying to your statement that Curm couldn't be a senator AND a mayor.
Sometimes our replies show up several posts down the way!
Garwood wants to be a State Rep and still be the mayor...
And, bless all our hearts....Greiner wants to be your unbiased senator AND police chief!
Anonymous (Geiger?) is attempting to question whether Little Matty Godfrey has actually violated any statute or ethical principle. He has on both counts. Godfrey's unconscionable hubris (and this is just another in a long line of don't-you-dare-question-me-I'm-the-mayor-who-receives-visions-from-God actions that are more befitting a middle school student body officer)drove him to tail a private citizen who was engaging in an act of protected speech in order to ascertain this person's identity and exert retribution if possible. Unfortunately for Little Matty, he was in just the position to use his power to punish someone who's spouse is protesting his policies. Godfrey is an absolute child and a moron to boot. It is not proper for a petulant little mayor to follow a private citizen around in an attempt to discover who he or she is. It is illegal for a mayor to use the police plate system to find the identity of someone engaging in a protected act of protest. And it is unbelievable that he and the chief would act on this illegally obtained information and take retribution. This could not have come at a worse time for the tyranical Lilliputian, because soon the entire community will also discover that his silly Jetson-car gondola land scheme is also predicated entirely on fantasies, lies, falsehoods and fabrications.
Jason W,, But this couldn't have come at a better time for us!!!
Hopefully, if there are any thinking LO's out there, they will have to be too embarrassed by this clown to continue to support him
I see that Peterson is lying low.
To echo someone else's question....what business would want to come here and open shop after seeing what a childish, arrogant, dishonest mayor represents Ogden????
Usually, when there is an incident with disastrous consequences, those involved look back on it---attorneys call this a post mortem, atheletes a play by play--to ascertain what went wrong, and what should have happened instead.
Obviously, Collette Jones did not realize that she had been catapulted into a cloak and dagger environment while engaged in parking a truck on a downtown Ogden City street. This on her part has now been shown to be a glaring error. Had she known that the presence of the pursuer on the scene did not bode well, she no doubt would have performed evasive action.
Walking unconcernedly down the street would have been good, thereby forcing her tail to quite obviously follow along at under 5 MPH, thereby risking a ticket himself or becoming a hazard.
Or, she could have darted randomly amongst the trees in the municipal gardens, hiding behind one after the other until enough space was put between her and her pursuer so that she later could rendezvous with her ride.
Or brazenly entered the coffee shop, bought something, and sat comfortably outside on the plaza, waving in a friendly manner every time her pursuer circled the block.
Or maybe--this is a good one--flagged down a policeman! They are here, after all, to protect citizens from harm.
The error is obvious---she simply did not know that the presence of the pursuer represented any kind of threat to her or her family's livlihood.
It really shouldn't have, either, in my opinion.
How many anons are there? Would you anons please use a pseudonym? It would make the conversasion easier to follow. I am anonymous but use my name so my blather can be decernable as having come from one specific blatherer.
Mr Curmudgeon:
If you read the rules of this blog you not find written anywhere therein any thing about checking your sense of humor before entering.
Please abide by the rules. You have demonstrated on numerous occasions herein that you do in fact have a sense of humor. Please do not let it atrophy.
I WAS ONLY FRIGGEN KIDDING about shooting all politicians. Actually we should only shoot the NeoCons of both major parties.
Now as far as lawyers go, I think Willy Shakespear had the right idea - "first thing we do is kill all the lawyers". Was he kidding? I hope not...
A plea to any and all involved in "The Sign": Please do not be afraid to stand behind Mr. Jones -I'll just bet you have a big majority of the city behind you - WE will back YOU - PLEASE back him!!
If we had a real newspaper in this town, they would be getting to the bottom of this AND also checking the circumstances behind the resignation of our former recorder.
No-ONE.
I think you are SOMEONE!
Thank you for speaking out in defense of Officer Jones.
You are so right in that (paraphrased) where will the trust be in our police if we citizens only see them and ourselves as money making machines??
There are serious issues of crime, including drugs, rape, REAL violators of traffic laws who need to be stopped, kidnapping, burglarly, etc,
When the police are seen only as the punitive arm of a weak chief and punitive mayor I think the police are in danger of being even MORE disrespected by the public.
I think this could make you easier prey for hotheads with guns.
Your jobs are already hazardous....having this little dictator meddling only makes them more so.
I hope you and the others won't quit and go to a town where you would receive respect, appreciation and more pay!
Please hang in and lobby this council to step up to the plate and do what is right.
It would seem that enough people are begging them to do so, but to no avail.
Maybe you all need to apply a little muscle of your own? Just as you and your fellow ff's gave support to the newer council members during their campaigns..and to CHAIR Garcia...withdrawing support from those up for another go could bring them to their senses?
Please let your fellow officers and families know that were it in OUR power things would have changed long ago.
Keep on keepin' on......you ARE appreciated.
Ozboy:
Sorry if I misread your post. I didn't think you meant it seriously, the shooting part, but it reflected an attitude I find [sadly] very very common in the coffee shoppes of Our Fair City, and even more sadly, among many --- I would say most --- of the students I teach. The dismissive attitude that they're all crooks and it makes no difference who gets in.
If I attributed more to your post that you intended, please accept my apologies. One of the things I've discovered over the years is that irony often does not come across on the screen [where tone of voice and inflection are absent] the way it does face to face. Again, sorry if I misread yours.
Dian:
Mrs. Curmudgeon just read your primer on What To Do If You Are Being Followed By Mayor Matthew Godfrey. She is still chuckling. Would that it had been ready as a hand out for "Take Back The Night."
The Exchange Club had a speaker this week from the Fire Department.
This speaker said that salary negotiations were tied to an endorsement for the gondola.
We had heard this previously and the City administration had denied it previously.
So who do you think I believe???????
Does anyone know why channel 5 news was up at mt. ogden park this morning, I drove by and saw a dozen or so people in the parking lot and a few people in front of the camera, is this all about the gondola or is it about the van that was parked there?
I guess I will watch the 5:00 news to see what happen!
Not sure why the mini-event was at Mt. Ogden Park, but it was definitely about Quotagate, not about the gondola. Please keep us posted on how it's reported on the news.
I have on CH 5 now...thanx for the tip...will watch at 10 pm if I've already missed it.
Thanx
Could a HPS write and shed some light on the Ch 5 doings?
okay,
the ch 5 report on the ticket quota will be on the 10 pm news!
Koo, Koo, Kooo...
I doubt even Lady Godiva could have made as fateful a trip as Collette Jones from 28th & Harrison down to City Hall. I would love to see the Joneses bring a civil suit against the whole rotten bunch. Maybe Ms. Jones is just the Madame Defarge needed to get this long-overdue revolution rolling.
Just som clarifications for Dadgummitt.
The Firefighters never said the Gondola endorsement was tied to wages.
They (City Administration) asked for Gondola endorsement in exchange for them to apply for a grant to bring our staffing levels back to the same level when they eliminated three fire fighters positions.
In essence, publicly support the Gondola, we'll apply for a grant to hire three fire fighters.
We dont want to be accused of misleading anyone.
Thanks
Mrs Jones is a flat out champion of the people and a woman of dignity.
Her Husband, Officer Matt Jones and his comrades, are great hero's of Ogden.
Officer Troy Burnett is a man of great courage and a true patriot.
They, and their fellow officers and spouses, are all an inspiration and reflect that which is the best of Ogden.
Matt Godfrey and his whole circle of empty suits aint qualified to hold any one of their jocks (or unmentionables)
The men and women of the OPD give me great hope for the future of Ogden.
Ozboy,
you forgot one thing - Mathew Godfrey and Forgetful John Greiner are two worthless punks that are a pox on Ogden.
Oz - you seem a little rad, but I like it!
To Curmdgon, Dan, Rudzi, and many others: I am new on this blog and I have to say you people knock me out! I never dreamed that this sort of dialogue was going on in our town.
It gives me new hope that the truth will win in Ogden.
Well here is the real opportunity of a life time to put these politicians that want to oppress the employees freedom of speech.
Here is how you do it !!!!
First off) have the Police Benefit association set up three or more Trust accounts with various credit union and banks. Call it the “Legal Defense Trust Account For Officer Matt Jones.” there is nothing wrong with them doing this after all they are there not only to help citizens in need, but also there own who needs legal help, especially when one of their members are being oppressed by the Administration which is in response to defend their “Constitutional Rights” and “Civil Rights.”
Second) after these accounts have been established,
(A) Print up hand bills and flyers and lawn signs encouraging the public to contribute to this defense trust fund,
(B) Don’t forget mailing to get te word out for people to contribute to this fund, to hire and maintain a legal defense for and in his behalf.
( C) Remember Chief Jon Greiner is running for senator for the seat.
Put this lawn signs next to his campaign signs.
You will see how fast they will back down and return officer Jones back to duty.
Third) Volunteers go around the business, and retail stores and where ever they can legally display these bills.
Fourth) get the voter registration list from the County Clerk Office and create a mailing list for news letters to be sent to very citizens that cares enough to vote at the polls they should be very concern about protecting their citizens 1st amendments right.
In these flyer have it point out the locations where they can donate to this legal defense fund.
Include in the flyers that if any moneys are left over they will be there ready and in waiting for the next politician that wants to challenge any employees constitutional Rights or Civil Rights.
The one thing that Godfrey is banking on is that he controls the Ogden City purse strings and he figures than no one person with limited income would out gun his spending for a legal defense challenge.
Leiutant. Co. Ollie North countered this tactic to get the government to back off of him and the government did back down when they seen how much he raised which also meant citizens support was tied to it.
Plus, this will give Mayor Godfrey a political black eye in the eyes of the citizens when they learn of him trying to trample down any employees right to free speech. After all they are not used to having the public opinion go against them using this type of political tactic used against them. It is called opinion polls.
Sam Spade Godfrey Flees Ogden
Just watched the KSL TV report on the Ogden police and ticket quota mess. They noted repeated unsuccessful attempts to reach Ogden's very own sleuth Mayor for a comment. They were finally told by his secretary that he was "on vacation."
Someone of a suspicious turn of mind might translate that as "the Mayor has fled town till the heat blows over." Real stand up guy, our Matthew. Wonder what his motto is. Something like this I imagine: "When the going gets tough, the mayor goes."
Another Humble:
Thanks for the clarification. Glad to see some folks who work for the city understand that full disclosure and scrupulous accuracy matters in public discussion. As apparently our Mayor does not.
Godfrey deserves an extended taxpayer paid vacation...
in scenic Draper, Utah.
Ah common you guys, poor little Matt G has to hold down two jobs and your just loading a bunch of abuse on him for your own sick enjoyment.
Every one knows that an Ogden cop has to work two jobs to make ends meet. Poor Little Godfrey has to spend eight hours a night as an undercover cop keeping our streets safe from marauding cop's wifes, then he has to show up on the ninth floor in the morning crisp and clean and ready to put a full eight in as mayor promoting his buddy's land grab schemes. Give the poor guy a break.
Same goes for chief Groaner. He is barely getting by on his double dip deal with only his meager wifely inheritance supplement. Where is the poor guy supposed to get the time to keep track of stuff like which officer to suspend in any given day?
This blog is just full of a bunch of naysayers that don't know the secret hand shake and therefore don't know shit about shineola.
If you all would spend half as much time worrying about important stuff like gondola's as you do about this stupid concept of free speech, Ogden would be the bright and shining place on the hill that his highness Godfrey has invisioned for all of us.
And Dan, don't even start in with this obnoxious quotagate saying. I can tell you right now it just isn't going to catch on even if Mary thinks it is funny.
My sources say Chief Greiner is not telling the truth? The decision was not already made to suspend Jones before the Mayor called Greiner? When the outside investigation takes place? We need to see those documents proving the time line. Also every good Officer has multiple citizen complaints. We also need to know how many citizen complaints Chief Greiner has received?
Hypocrites
We need to write in Matt Jones for State Senate District #18
It just keeps getting better and better.
In this morning's Standard Examiner there is another front-page story examining Forgetful John Grenier's insistence that he had a right to use police resources to run the license plate of a city employee's wife because the mayor wanted to know who she was.
Poor Forgetful John. Saddled with the unhappy task of cleaning up the mess little Matty dropped him in all by himself [Matty has taken a powder]. And he has to read, on the front page of the SE a Salt Lake civil rights attorney accusing him of unprofessional conduct:
However, Brian Barnard, a Salt Lake City civil rights attorney, believes Greiner... had no legal basis for running Jones’ plate.
“He was running the plate for the purpose of retaliation,” Barnard said. “If a police officer is going to invade your life, he has to have suspicion of a crime. He used his position as a police officer for a non-law enforcement purpose. It clearly was unprofessional.”
In trying to parry that, Forgetful John just sinks deeper and deeper into the mire our very own sleuthing mayor dropped him in. Forgetful John points out [reasonably] that when he receives a citizens complaint about officer misconduct in a vehicle --- say a citizen charge that an officer was speeding --- he has to be able to run the license in order to investigate the complaint.
Well, of course he does. No one has suggested otherwise. But of course the city employee's wife whose plate the mayor wanted run was not being accused of any illegal action at all. Nor was her husband accused of any illegal actions that night. [I believe picking your wife up from downtown in the family car is still legal. Even in Ogden.]
Which leaves poor Forgetful John arguing on the front pages of the SE that he has a right to use police resources to track down a license plate to learn the name and home address of anyone the mayor complains is not being nice to him.
This... this... is what "leadership" [politely so called] has come to in Matthew Godfrey's Ogden.
PS: by the way, kudos to the SE for staying on the story.
Deseret News Is On the Story Now Too
Deseret News has a story this morning on Forgetful John Grenier's recent actions, reporting again his claim that he intended to suspend the officer involved before Mayor Godfrey called in asking him to run the officer's wife's license plates, but golly gee, it just slipped his mind. And this story too questions the Chief's claim that he has a right under Utah law to use police resources to track down people the mayor complains are not being nice to him. Money quote: While Ogden City Attorney Gary Williams would not comment on the matter, the Utah Department of Public Safety said it does not run a license plate unless there is a "legitimate police reason."
The full story is here:
http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/
view2/1,4382,640199609,00.html
?textfield=Ogden
Police -
Don't tell your boss that you hve nothing to do with something unless you really do have nothing to do with it.
Chief Greiner needs to be able to trust the word and conduct of his officers.
These guys signed up for a job. They haven't got the pay they deserve. That is understood. But, when you begin protesting the system you work for and telling your boss that you have nothing to do with it, then you risk inquiry when your wife is seen driving the get away car.
The OPD needs to operate in a professional, disciplined manner.
I think all Ogden residents support the OPD. I know I do.
It is my hope that we'll be able to continue turning the economy of this city around so that everyone everyone isn't frustrated over their share of a small revenue pie.
In the meantime, it seems logical to me that Chief Greiner would take action to maintain good order and discipline within the ranks of the police force.
Go Mayor! Go Chief Griener! Go OPD!
The latest, throwing a wrench into the whole episode:
"We do not care about that van, we don't care about who drives that van, we don't care about what the van says," Greiner said.
Why, then, was the mayor running the plate of the car the van driver entered, why was Greiner running the plate of it, why is he defending that last action in this morning's SE stating that it was necessary to do if.......he doesn't care about it?
Excellent D News story here by Brandy A. Lee: Ogden officer isn't sure why he's on administrative leave
Geiger, I mean, Anonymous, is so full of shit he can't squeeze through doorways. Go Mayor! Are you kidding me? You support the chief elected official of a city tailing a woman who was engaging in an act of protected protest and speech in order to ascertain her identity and take retribution? You support a petulant little tyrant's abuse of the police system to perform his detective work? You support a pouty, vindictive, insecure Lilliputian's blatant disregard for the very public he is supposed to serve? This has nothing to do with economic development and your stupid, childish gondola; it has everything to do with Little Matty Godfrey's astounding hubris and pathological lying. Was he driven to this act by another of his famous visions from God?
Hi all,
I found that there was a bill introduce back in 2000 that I wish Rep.Hansen would propose this next session. lets call him and let him know how we can support this.
here is a proposed legislation for Rep. Neil Hansen
A couple of questions need to be asked of Greiner.
1. When he asked the police if the OPBA was involved in the Bill
Board Van. Was he asking as an OPBA member? Or the Chief?
2. Is or was the OPBA under criminal investigation?
And to top it all off, the idiot Greiner admits to breaking the law on more than one occasion, by running plate numbers of others employed by his little gestapo.
Gary Williams will never be able to bail these two dumb asses out now, Greiner wont keep his friggin mouth shut. The idiot just keeps digging a deeper hole every time is is quoted in the news.
"We do not care about that van, we don't care about who drives that van, we don't care about what the van says," Greiner said.
So why the hell is he concerned if the OPBA had anything to do with it?
Has anyone thought about taking all the things that are said on this blog that have proven that the administation is not perfectly honest with the public and buy space in the standard ex. to show them that they have really missed the boat on their reporting.
then maybe they might get it right!
how about it opba?
NOW I KNOW I need therapy - I have never - N E V E R - in my whole life agreed with ANYTHING Bryan Barnard said - E V E R!!!!! (until now)
Oh woe is me............
Go Mayor! Go Chief Griener! Go OPD!
If the officers can’t trust the word and conduct of their chief, how can they be expected to reciprocate that trust. In most organizations the “corporate culture” is usually dictated by the leaders. If the leaders are not ethical or trustworthy in their actions then their employees will usually follow suite. I in no way think the officer’s conduct was or is unethical or untrustworthy, but I find it hard to place the blame on them, or even label their dissatisfaction and how they responded as unethical, when the corruption starts at the top.
“It is my hope that we'll be able to continue turning the economy of this city around so that everyone isn't frustrated over their share of a small revenue pie.”
I didn’t know that the frustration was over everyone’s small share of the revenue pie. In fact, I have yet to hear anyone complain about the revenue pie or the piece they get. The only ones I hear touting the “sky is falling” routine and that Ogden needs economic reform is the Lift Ogden crowd. I don’t think any of this has to do with revenues and who’s getting what and the fact that you think it does show’s how little you understand people. The only ones with a “what’s in it for me” attitude is the Godfrey/Peterson/LO bunch.
KSL has yesterday's story on its website:
Controversial Sign, Police Officer's Suspension Linked?
Jones should fired, not on paid Ad leave. His bull shitting around is juvenile, and the real issue here. He and his wife have no life I take it, moving a van all around town. Send this guy to Tooele PD. Pronto. Tonto.
I agree that Jones' stunts are questionable, but how else do you get the Mayor to pay attention in this town. He sure in the hell doesn't listen to reason. And even if I don't agree with how Jones and others have done what they have done (by placing a sign on van), they should have a right to do so if they choose to do so. The Mayor is the one who shouldn't be following around people in his car and he and the Chief need to stop with their ridiculous stories.
Maybe Peterson has enough grace left to want to distance himself from this little power hungry egotist.
Surely he can see that Godfrey has fallen so out of favor with this town and is considered an embarrassment that Peterson knows his land grab vision is headed for the landfill, where all useless crystal balls end up.
HPS's, all of you, keep the media involved! Get the other TV station reporters up here too.
Enjoyed the Draper link. Matty wouldn't last past his first shower with the big boys. Don't drop the soap, Matt.
Does anyone know who the van people had make that sign?? I'm a citizen of Ogden and would love to put one on my truck. Good thing I don't work for the city though.... Hate to have my job threatened by the little man!
ArmySarge:
[Grin]
There may be hope for you yet!
My response to ralph schlonger -
You must really be new to Dodge.
Just watch, read and make some notes and then you will get the picture.
Do you think Geiger has finally thought up a name other than the creative anonymous?
Is he now Schlonger??
Or is this one of the infamous mayor's relatives??
Schlonger would fit the description of several people in the community.
In organizations like the military and a police department, there is a very high expectation of loyalty and honesty--especially when communicating withing the chain of command or communicating about internal on-goings to the public. Professional law enforcement officers or military personal often do not have all the facts surrounding signficant issues that affect them. They are expected to take loyal action and to communicate professionally within the chain of command or resign. After resignation, then they can voice their grievences wide open as a civilian and as a tax-paying citizen.
This officer decided to step outside the chain of command and express his grievences openly to the public. He decided to take his message to the people. He denied that he had any participation in doing so until caught. His actions show a lack of loyalty, a lack of honest communication with his chief, and lack of understanding of professional behavior within the department.
Actions taken by the mayor and the chief may not be understood by many. Many don't understand the interaction between military personel and their commanding officers. Police officers, their professionalism, their loyalty to the chain of command, their handling of grievences, etc. are all held to a higher standard than what many of you might understand or recognize.
You are used to spewing profanity and filth anonymously into a blog site. Your standard of communique is one that makes operating in the relm of good order and discipline a very disorienting and painful experience.
There are things that need to be done in this city to improve it. Along the way, our police force, as public servants and members of a chain of command, are expected to operate professionally and honestly. Certainly there is nothing wrong with protesting the chain of command, but often times it requires the removal of ones uniform. Again...something that many here probably would not understand.
Q: Why does anyone who enters this site that doesn't say: "Down with the mayor" get assigned the name Geiger?
Could it be that this is just a homogeneous mess of bull that so seldom gets interrupted by a contrary thought that you think you can personally identify the person because there is only one who would dare come here ad say something otherwise? Geiger...?
Sad.
Anonymous said...
In organizations like the military and a police department, there is a very high expectation of loyalty and honesty--especially when communicating withing the chain of command or communicating about internal on-goings to the public. Professional law enforcement officers or military personal often do not have all the facts surrounding signficant issues that affect them. They are expected to take loyal action and to communicate professionally within the chain of command or resign. After resignation, then they can voice their grievences wide open as a civilian and as a tax-paying citizen.
This officer decided to step outside the chain of command and express his grievences openly to the public. He decided to take his message to the people. He denied that he had any participation in doing so until caught. His actions show a lack of loyalty, a lack of honest communication with his chief, and lack of understanding of professional behavior within the department.
Actions taken by the mayor and the chief may not be understood by many. Many don't understand the interaction between military personel and their commanding officers. Police officers, their professionalism, their loyalty to the chain of command, their handling of grievences, etc. are all held to a higher standard than what many of you might understand or recognize.
You are used to spewing profanity and filth anonymously into a blog site. Your standard of communique is one that makes operating in the relm of good order and discipline a very disorienting and painful experience.
There are things that need to be done in this city to improve it. Along the way, our police force, as public servants and members of a chain of command, are expected to operate professionally and honestly. Certainly there is nothing wrong with protesting the chain of command, but often times it requires the removal of ones uniform. Again...something that many here probably would not understand.
CURM, I BELIEVE THIS HAS YOUR NAME ALL OVER IT!
New name "Ogdenlover" because I really love this town, old name was "Anonymous Too".
Two questions:
1. I'm wondering if Matt & Forgetfull tried to find out who was leasing the van and were told to bug off, leaving them to play detective.
2. If Matt couldn't be reached for comment by KSL yesterday because "he is on vacation" (according to his secretary), how come he was present at Chris Peterson's dog and pony show following the City Council Meeting?
Maybe he got integrity and did this on his own time? Nah!
I add my voice to those calling for Mayor Godfrey's resignation.
I am close to the Jones’ family and would like to clear a little air here, also. Officer Matt Jones is an excellent Police Officer, and an admired colleague and friend among many. To the people that know Officer Matt Jones, we are keenly aware that he is one of those people that are fair and just and take the responsibilities of this position seriously. He has always acted in a professional, disciplined manner. He is the type of officer that will pull over and help a stranded motorist change their tire or back-up a fellow officer in a dangerous criminal matter. Whatever the job calls for, he is there to offer his assistance.
Officer Jones works a part-time security job that has been affected in this political aftermath, and his wife does not work for the city. Colette is a homemaker first and foremost. Matt and Colette are very much involved in serving the community they live in and events that their two young sons take part in.
Colette recently transitioned jobs from being a “lunch lady” for Weber County School District, to working for a private firm as an administrative assistant.
You should also know that Matt has earned a high degree of respect and credibility with every person he has ever worked for/with, including his fellow officers at OPD. (Although we all know that criminals or even people receiving a ticket that don’t think they deserve it may have grievances).
Those of you that don’t know Officer Jones personally should know that Ogden is a safer place when Matt is patrolling your streets. He puts his life on the line every time he puts that uniform on, (as all of our officers do). Matt doesn’t put his life on the line for the money he is paid or the glory that some may associate with being a police officer. Matt chooses to be a police officer to make a contribution in making our community a safer place for all of us, by getting the criminals and law breakers off the streets and behind bars.
Matt’s involvement in bringing attention to his fellow officers getting the raises that they have been promised for quite sometime, is another example of his dedication to issues he feels strongly about. Our police officers deserve the raises they have been promised, and this issue has not getting the attention it deserves. When Matt was given an opportunity to help his fellow officers bring much needed attention to this issue, he gave it his all, and said he would help anyway possible. Please know that he did not act alone. There are many, many people, including private citizens that are involved in bringing attention to the issues at hand, and the van was just one way of getting their message across to our city council members and the mayor.
Apparently the van message has brought attention to the issue. The Mayor apparently took it personally and in doing so, has embarrassed himself and his colleagues. Now in order to justify the actions he took, he will launch a personal assault against the Jones’ family, which is wrong.
For those of us that have been following this case closely, it was clear to us, that as soon as the mayor’s council advised the mayor that he had created a messy situation for himself, that a personal assault of some type may be launched against Officer Jones to make him look like the bad guy, instead of the Mayor. Unfortunately the mayor decided to go down this path, and doesn’t leave the Jones’ family many options besides arming themselves with a lawyer and hoping and praying that the majority of our good citizens of Ogden, see the events of this issue for what they are, and don’t get caught up in the “cover-up” scheme that the mayor has had to launch to cover up the actions the mayor took that have embarrassed him and his colleagues publicly.
Hopefully the citizens of Ogden that Matt has been dedicated to protecting will stand behind him in this issue. If the Mayor is successful in pinning something on Officer Jones that prevents him from being a police officer in the future, our community will suffer a great loss. We will be losing a great man dedicated to getting the criminals off our streets and making our city a safer place.
Please support Officer Jones and our other OPD officers in their cause.
What would you and Officer Jones family like to see us do? I am willing to help and I am sure there are lots of others that would help anyway we can!
When I work for the city, I am on the taxpayers money and should do as I'm told by the administation, so long as it does not break the law, but when I'm off work from the city, I should be able to do what I want with my time, in the bounds of the law. That is what officer Jones was exercing here. He could see how the mayor is using the police force to make up for his enept managment and over spending.
Folks lets really get to the bottom of the truth of what Godfrey is really doing to the citizens when he choses to have law enforcement do his dirty work for him. IF he needs more money to spend, then raise the taxes, but don't be selective in who you are going to hit by a quota system.
b.t.w, I like the bill that Rep. Hansen should run with this next year. go after it will you.
Ole:
You mean you think I wrote it? If so, you are incorrect. I post here only under Curmudgeon.
Or do you mean it was addressed to/intended for/ aimed at me?
In any case, anon.'s long post is a strange one, and in some ways a disturbing one. First of all, and most disturbing is his equating the Ogden police department with the military. Generally in the US we do not run our cities, or even our city police departments, as branches of the military. I hope anon. understands that there is a fundamental difference between a civilian police department and, say, a Marine unit serving in an occupied country.
Ogden police men and women are civil servants and city employees. As such, off duty, they have the same rights as other citizens to speak freely on matters of public policy. Their spouses have that right all the time, whether their husbands or wives are city employees or not. I am hard put to see how the officer involved violated the public trust or his responsibilities as an officer or his responsibilities to his superiors by picking up his wife after she parked the van involved downtown.
Sorry, anon, but you are just plain wrong on this. But since I have never spew[ed]... profanity and filth anonymously into a blog site, , perhaps your post wasn't addressed to me after all.
However, I could not agree more, anon, that as you put it, " there are things that need to be done in this city to improve it." Absolutely right. And one of the things that needs to be done is to convince the City Council that it has an important leadership role to play under the Mayor-Council form of government, that its role is not simply to react to what the mayor places before it.
And another thing that needs to be done is for the city to begin the applications for federal funding for the streetcar line from downtown to McKay Dee hospital that the consultants the city paid to study the matter recommended as the best option to meet Ogden's future mass transit needs and to foster economic growth as well. As it stands now, the Mayor is stalling the city's moving on this, in hopes of substituting his buddy's gondola/gondola and real estate speculation scheme.
Can we agree on that at least, anon?
Bobby G
It is the OPD, not the USMC.
Big diffence as Curmudgeon has pointed out. Maybe they didn't teach you this at Annapolis?
Of course there appears to be a lot of stuff they didn't teach you there. Things like critical thinking, business priciples, ethics, and most of all Public Relations.
In response to the following posting:
"Anonymous said... What would you and Officer Jones family like to see us do? I am willing to help and I am sure there are lots of others that would help anyway we can!"
I will ask that question and see if I can get you some answers. I have no experience with these types of issues. I am just alarmed as you probably are that something like this can happen in our community.
I personally believe in accountability. I believe as law abiding citizens we have to hold our mayor accountable for his actions. We need to make sure that he is not allowed to run a “cover-up” here and make the Jones’ family a scapegoat. My gut reaction is that we need to contact the City council members, and let them know how we feel. This Weber County Forum site has links to the city council members on its home page. I think that is where we have to start.
PS I noticed that a lot has been said in regards to our Police Chief on this link as well. I chose not to include his actions in my posting above, not because I believe he is innocent in all of this, but because I believe that the Police Chief position is an appointed position by the Mayor, and has political implications as well. In many cases I believe he is just caring out his boss’s orders.
I also understand that there is a significant connection between the Mayor and the Standard Examiner. I am told that the Standard Examiner has refused in the past to print any article that makes the Mayor look bad. I understand there is a personal connection between the higher ups at the Standard and the Mayor. Initially I found it hard to believe that as a reader of the Standard Examiner for many years that I had been subjected to very biased press. But the stories on this particular issue have left no doubt in my mind that this is still a common practice at the Standard Examiner.
Concerned Citizen:
You wrote: I also understand that there is a significant connection between the Mayor and the Standard Examiner. I am told that the Standard Examiner has refused in the past to print any article that makes the Mayor look bad.
Our intrepid blogmeister will doubtless be happy to see that, but I'm not sure it's true. The editorial side may be closer to the Administration and its allies than I, or you, would like, but I don't think you can make the charge stand up on the news side. Certainly the recent front page stories about the Mayor playing sleuth, etc. could not have pleased him. And the SE is staying with the story. Another one, front page, this morning. And as I recall, the testimony of firedepartment labor leaders to the council that the firemen were told by the Godfrey administration that if they publically endorsed the gondola scheme, he'd apply for grants to hire three more firemen, was reported by the SE.
So I don't think the claim that it won't print anything to make the mayor unhappy can be supported on the evidence. And there have been, even on the editorial side, a steady stream of op-ed pieces that were not likely to make the Mayor swell with pride.
In short, on the whole, lately, I think claims that the paper is in the mayor's pocket can't be sustained on the evidence.
Concerned Citizen,
Your recent post in defense of Matt and Colette Jones, in MHO, should be submitted to the SE as a GUEST COMMENTARY.
Because of the circumstances, it appears you are also a HPS, I'm quite sure they would protect your anonymity.
Give it a try, eh?
Talk to Andy Howell or Dave Greiling.
Schwebke, bless his heart, has stayed with the story. But, what is needed is some 'color' and a HPS point of view.
Please give it a go.
Im glad to see Mayor Godfrey (ralph slonger) visits this website.
Just so everyone knows. Chief Griener all the lieutenants and 95% of Ogden Police is an OPBA member.
It is possible that the Chief (an OPBA member) lied to himself so he could justify the running of a license plate.
There are several OPBA members that scattered as soon as the meetings became controversial. It is possible one of these members (even the chief) told the chief they are not involved because they have not been to a meeting in months and was not aware.
But the association has been involved since day one along with several citizens and family members.
Officer Jones has never lied about the association being involved.
The OPBA followed the chain of command for 5 years. They recieved one raise in these 5 years. Obviously the chain of command was not working so they went outside the chain.
There are way too may anonymous's try and add a sign with it soo we can tell the difference
OPBA,
Through all your painful attempts to be treated fairly and having to go to the council, publicly, and ask for intervention....where was your chief?
It didn't seem to me that he has ever stood with his "men"....women officers too.
Attempting to equate the OPD with the Marines or any other branch of the military only makes your chief look more ineffective as a leader of his 'troops'.
Is he really afraid the little dictator will fire him??
Well, a couple weeks ago, perhaps, but now the publicity would constrain even this massive ego.
The only reason we have put up with the chief this long is we understand that he has an at will job. The mayor can show up at anytime for anyreason to fire him.
However, if you want to be a state senator you had better be ready to stand up for what is right not what is popular.
With 123 posts and counting to "Boss Godfrey's Preposterous Cover Story," it's clear that lots of folks in Weber County smell blood in the water. Let's hope this becomes Waterloo for the little mayor and his toadying police chief.
Hey Anonymous.
You compared O.P.D. to the Military. Well I have news, the Military chain of command is not perfect and they often gives illegal orders, in recent times look what several of our low rank service men are charge with in recent years involving actions in Iraq and their prison system. These service men are going to prison because they obeyed their superiors was their excuse which they maybe telling the truth. They were given those several illegal orders. Which their superiors denied giving them.
You neglect to realize that chain of command is very important. However, chain of command is to show not only respect to their leaders. However, their leaders must be able to return that respect, by not giving illegal orders and not expecting their men to become the escape goats, during an investigation or inquiry.
Like I have said in the previous Boggs if they are living up to their “OATH OF OFFICE”
then there would never be an illegal order given nor would there be a reason to disobey That Order. However you get certain people in high up command and they believe that they are above the laws and further more the laws are for the little guys. Prime example Chief and Commander of the military. Richard N. Nixon found out the hard way.
Integrity in My book is far more valuable character trait than loyalty.
And you can quote me on the next one.
“For the God I believe in has integrity” which is the grand difference between him and the Devil, However, the angels of the Devil have no integrity, only loyalty to their master the Devil.”
Oh By the way.
I didn’t know that Matthew Godfrey served in the military or Chief Greiner. I heard however, Jon Greiner was in only in High School ROTC. I maybe wrong...
So how would they really understand what Chain of Command Loyalty is in the military, since they were never really in the shoes of a real military unit?
Hey how about Mathieu, I never saw him stick up for his firefighters, he and Greiner both sit in the dark corners trying hard to not draw attention. They are both retired and still drawing full pay with benifits, including the portion that the city would normaly pay to the retirement system on their behalf.
So it makes sense that these two spineless individuals would stay in the dark recesses so they dont ruin the sweet deal they have with the little lord.
Everyone has a price, but Mathieu and Greiners' are only around $150,000.00 per year.
Jon Greiner served 22 years in the US Army Reserve, retiring as a Lieutenant Colonel, according to his campaign website:
Military Service
What amazes me about this whole thing is the absolute disregard Greiner and Godfrey have for the collective intelligence of the citizens of this city. Their remarks are preschool in flavor. I think everyone learned the "liar...", "no... you're a liar" retorts at the maximum age of 5. It didn't work then with adults (who knew how to question and dig for truth), and it looks a bit ridiculous now for two supposedly grown men to be using it now.
It is incredibly insulting to me as a citizen that they dare put a flavor of that preschool retort into quotes ready for print.
The other quote, "Absolutely Not!", is, unfortunately, a tried and true, politically savvy denial tactic. Too bad (for them) that it is rendered here in such a brusk and obviously transparent manner to do them any good.
It is pretty amazing that Greiner could have served as a field grade officer in the US Military and still be such a piss poor leader.
He calls his officers "whiners" for expecting to be treated fairly and with dignity, and they for the most part hate hit guts. He appears to be plotting a bogus charge against one of his troopers inorder to save face for his own, and the mayor's, stupidity and arrogance. Some leader that adds up to. We had a solution for people like this back in the Nam era. It was called fragging. (Please OPD members, this is not an option in peace time, unfortunately)
He is a dark malovent force and a class A punk to boot IMHO.
Amen to that.
If I had my way it would be that he does not serve in the senate and is retired for good from ogden city in a few days
On Chief "Forgetful John" Grenier's management style:
Sadly, there are some in all fields [military and civilian, public and private] whose approach to career advancement consists of this: "kiss up and kick down."
I don't know enough about Forgetful John's management of the the OPD to say for certain that that's the career advancement style he's chosen for himself here in Ogden. But based on the events of the past couple of months, and especially of the last couple of weeks, it's beginning to look that way.
People who do behave that way in positions of authority [public or private] should not, it seems to me, be entrusted with making the laws under which we all have to live.
Comment moved by administrator to the top floor
I stand corrected, Thank You, for pointing that out. after all that is how we learn right! I may not always be right however, I will always try to do what is right. To me that is what really counts and being big enought to admit when I was wrong.
Here is a quote out of the movie; A Few Good Men. "Col. Jessep Didn't get to be col. without learning how to side step a few land mines on the way if you know what I mean".
Capt Bruel, USA retired..
I take it you were in the Airforce?
Officers who publicly protest the chain of command would warrant reprimand and would likely be called winers!
This is the military that I came from, and I am proud of it.
Semper Fi!
Concerned Citizen -
I wouldn't expect you to understand chain of command and how it works, both up and down.
You are right that respect and loyalty must go both ways though. But... in the end, public protest of the chain of command almost always results in the removal of ones uniform. This is just a fact.
Its hard to explain to someone who gets their understanding of our military from the movies.
Anon:
Again, why are you comparing the OPD to the Military. They are not the same. The chief publicly calling his men "whiners" was not a smart move and is definitely nothing to be proud of.
Curm, forgive me if you misunderstand what I meant. I was implying that you were best suited for the reply to Anon. Keep up the good post and rational thought man!
Anonymous - USA Ret - at least in this context stands for United States Army Retired. If I had been in the Airforce it would be USAF Ret.
Incidently when I first joined at 18 it was the Army Air Corp. I later opted for the Army when the split came. I was medically retired as a result of wounds suffered in Viet Nam.
To your statemen "Semper Fi" I would like to say thank you for your service to our country and thank you for being ever faithful.
Ole:
Ah. OK. Sorry I misread your intent. Thanks for clearing it up.
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