Ace Reporter Schwebke contributes an interesting news tidbit this morning, with a story reporting that the State Auditor's Office is in the process of conducting an audit of the American Can transaction:
OGDEN — A request from Ogden mayoral candidate Rep. Neil Hansen, R-Ogden,has prompted the state Auditor’s Office to investigate the city’s use of aFor those readers, by the way, who find it strange that Boss Godfrey has the capacity to unilaterally determine true "intent": Remember, Godfrey is a "visionary." He hears "voices."
$900,000 state grant in 2002 to purchase the former American Can Co. complex.
Mayor Matthew Godfrey, who is seeking a third term in November’s general election, said the audit request is a political move designed to discredit him.
"The intent is to make me look bad," Godfrey said.
We believe the most striking oddity in this story is Boss Godfrey's paranoid delusion that an audit of this sort is somehow intended to cast him in a bad light. The State Auditor's office conducts audits of municipal transactions constantly and routinely. Doing such audits is the State Auditor's job. Frankly, we find it find it astonishing that Boss Godfrey is complaining about this at all.
Further down in the article Godfrey tells our favorite Ace Reporter that "the city will cooperate with state auditors. 'We have nothing to hide,' he said."
And we think that's the whole point. If indeed the American Can transaction was on the financial "up and up," we don't understand why Boss Godfrey is grousing about it. If State Representative Hansen received constituent complaints about the tranasaction, it was of course his duty to pass them on to the Auditor's office, just as it's the State Auditor's duty to follow up with an audit, when the same citizen queries wind up on his desk. Surely even Boss Godfrey must understand this simple government 101 concept.
And we're wondering about one more thing: If Boss Godfrey is so terribly concerned that the pendency of this audit will somehow damage him politically, why did the normally-secretive Boss of Us All find it necessary or prudent to squawk to the Standard-Examiner about it?
While skeptics might leap to the conclusion that Boss Godfrey has gone public with this story to cultivate sympathetic political effect, we know that Dear Leader would never do anything like that. Boss Godfrey has more integrity than anyone in the room, as we all know. We therefore believe we can put any suggestions of disingenuousness quickly to rest.
And one more thing: Ace reporter Schwebke got this story almost completely wrong, from the article headline to the closing paragraph. This audit plainly has little to do with the $900,000 grant. The State Attorney General's Office has already resolved questions about the legal propriety of the application of the original grant funds, of course.
Assistant Attorney General Loos provides a hint of that in this paragraph:
"Loos said Thursday that while his opinion centered on Ogden’s compliance with the grant contract, the state audit will likely examine how the funds were used."
What the State Auditor's office will be doing in this audit, we believe, is to track the money trail in the transaction from the federal and state grants which seeded the original purchase, to the entities who wound up with the sale proceeds.
Among those entities is the mysterious Ogden Community Foundation, a shadowy and purportedly private entity operated from an office in city hall, chaired by The Little Lord Mayor himself, and populated by many of his Godfreyite henchmen. Our insider sources reveal that some within the State Auditor's Office suspect that this entity may in fact be a quasi-public, alter-ego subdivision of the city administration, subject under Utah law to audit by their office.
Now that the story has been taken public, it will indeed be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
And now for the Big News aspect of this morning's story. We were pleased to read this morning that Representative Hansen has quietly switched political affiliations, and is now a Republican State Representative. If you don't believe it (and we know this revelation will be particularly crushing to "yellow dog Democrat" gentle Curmudgeon,) go back and read Ace Reporter Schwebke's first paragraph.
It must be true; we read it in the paper.
Welcome to the Grand Old Party, Representative Hansen! With your constant fiscal conservatism, and love of open, honest government, we think you're a natural for the party of Abraham Lincoln.
Please don't all speak up at once, gentle readers.
Update 7/17/07 4:12 a.m. MT: Boss Godfrey now has two newspapers digging into the facts surrounding the American Can transaction. Check out yesterday morning's Kathy McKitrick story, in which Godfrey is quoted at his snarkiest.
Why Boss Godfrey won't just shut up about this, and let the audit run its course we do not know.
Perhaps it's because he has "more integrity than anyone in the room."
64 comments:
I hate to be a "yeahsayer" but I have never understood the issue with the 900 grand. It seems like a small amount of money, and the use seems reasonably within the intent of the grant. The whole can of worms with the Ogden Community Foundation, on the other hand, seems fishy to me. As far as Hansen switching parties, it may be a typo. But I do go on. Call me Curm.
What I wish Littrell would look into is the pledging of city assets - city buildings and cash flows - for RDA debt. That seems clearly verbotten to me, and will cost us all millions. That ain't chump change. If we could get that part of those RDA bonds tossed out, it will save the city millions when those houses of cards fall apart. If Dorothy could do that, it would be a real public service.
And one wonders: What does our highly-experienced downtown businessman blogger from yesterday (Mr. can’t have it both ways) think about all of this, or about my final post from yesterday, as he sweeps the cigarette butts off his sidewalk this morning?
Tec:
So you’re a libertarian eh?
What do you think about this?
(Blogmeister may delete this post if it too flagrantly violates the off-topic rule.)
""The intent is to make me look bad," Godfrey said."
As if he doesn't do a fine job of that all by himself.
I believe this part of Loos' finding, quoted in today's Standard, is utterly false:
"City officials have also worked with Weber State University, local entrepreneur Allan Hall and Fresenius Medical Care to establish a high-tech center at the complex, Loos said."
First of all, his name is "Alan Hall", as even a quick Google search will reveal. Second, I don't believe there was ever an attempt to 'establish a high-tech center at the complex', and hope the State Auditor's office will request documentary evidence of the same.
Ok. Here's the deal, As I have talked to several people about this. This is the way I understand this whole mess.
The city buys the American can building with the state money and the feds money for the HIGH TECH Center. Then in less than 24 hours of getting the money the building has then switched hands to the Ogden community foundation,(that is being run out of the mayors office according to the bylaws of the organizations) and the mayor thinks that it is no ones business but the mayors and his cronies. Then the building is then sold to the Great Jon petty of Colorado springs, so now there is 3 million buck sitting in the foundation to which no one is to account for the money or how it really got there or how it now will be spent. This is what I hope that the State Auditor is looking into. Folks this is the taxpayer's money and I think weather it is 900,000.00 or $.10 it should be looked into. I for one and like many other find it refreshing that Rep. Hansen is standing up for the taxpayer.
When Godfrey said that this is political, give me a brake.
Like the selling of the golf course wasn't. Get real mayor and quit listen to your voices in your head.
And then he said "they are out to make me look bad. Well mayor you are doing a great job of that all by your self.
In case you didn't know this is election time and now when we go to the pulls it is time to have you and you alone to account what you have done with your stewardship.
Danny:
Let me try to draw an analogy to show you why people are upset about this.
Imagine Congressman Bonzo (R-Utah) twists the arm of the US Dept of Commerce to establish a high-tech center in his hometown of Hooterville.
Next year, he 'retires' from Congress (with 30% of the vote) and goes back to Hooterville, where he is named chair of the High-Tech Center Board of Directors.
The Board, after a diligent Yellow Pages search for an entrepreneur to fill the High-Tech Center, finally gives up and allows ex-Congressman Bonzo to buy a really nice boat with the funds.
How would that make you feel?
Danny-
The issue of the $900,000.00 Utah Grant has nothing to do with the amount of money.
The issue has to do with the appropriation by the Utah Legislature which approved a $900,000.00 grant to Ogden to acquire property to build Da Vinci Academy/Riverside Technology High School.
The Grant had certain strings attached which are outlined in the Grant Contract Ogden City signed for.
Put this on a personal level. When you apply for a bank construction loan to build a house you sign for a certain amount of money. That money is to be used for a specific purpose.
The construction loan contract provides for a time limit to construct and what will be constructed at a definite location with a stated rate of interest.
It also states that ALL the terms of that construction loan must be complied with before that property can be sold.
The Utah Grant to Ogden states similar specific terms which include the provision that if ANY PART of the American Can property is sold the Grant can be called.
There were 2 extensions to give Ogden more time to comply with those terms. Not only did Ogden not comply with the deadline for the Grant terms but the American Can property was sold which made the Grant callable.
As to my auditing the RDA records you need to understand I have been trying to get GRAMA requests on the RDA from the Ogden City Recorder. I am consistently told the RDA records are not available.
The Utah State Auditor is the person you should be asking to get the information on Ogden's RDA.
monotreme...
You are right on with the issue. How about that Dave Harmer.
Well Danny...
We will have to disagree to disagree. I don't think the benches are as big a draw as you say they are. If they were the huge economic engine you claim, there area would have been thriving years ago not just now when housing prices became some of the cheapest in the country.
I'm not any of the Giegers nor do I even know them except for their ramblings in the local paper.
Oh yeah, I made no claims to my experience or time in Ogden or anything, so pretend to know who or what I am.
And thanks for your concern, but no cigarette butts this morning. It was a bit windy last night an blew them over to West Ogden.
As for the $900k....who cares. People see what they want to see. Supporters of Godfrey will see it as a political ploy and those dislike him will see as overdue. I think it will be an interesting four months.
And finally since you have been on all these panels and everything I guess you are one to be blamed for the economic stagnation of the previous years and the deteriorating infrastructure?
I have one question?
Where is the city council in all this are they not the check and balance on the mayor and his cronies. How about it Amy, Doug, Jesse, Doreen, Rick, Susan, Brandon. When are all of you, or any of you going to follow Rep. Hansen lead and start asking those tough questions. Remember some of you are up for re-election are you going to sit back and let this kind of things go on.
crum.....your comment about projected population- Ogden's population hasn't changed considerably the early 1900's. How much do you expect it to change in the next 6 to 10 years?
So the next logical step would be to say that well the surrounding area has changed. So then why should we focus on a system that would include N. Ogden, Riverdale, South Ogden, etc instead of just something (gondola, subway, trolley, alpine slide, chairlift, bus, free bikes, horses, rik shaw, piggyback rides, teleporter) that runs from downtown to Weber State?
And yes a golf course is development. Before that it was a place for people to dump there crap, go four-wheeling and teenagers to get drunk. Now they drive carts and get drunk. Not that that's bad.
Mono: Yes, the bigger picture is what is more disturbing than just the 900 grand.
Dorothy: I should have known you were already "on the case" on the RDA bonds. If you can't get the info, who can? I remember you have sued over things in the past . . . perhaps this would be a good time? It is a whole lot of money we never voted to pledge for those bonds, I think it was illegal, and if somebody could get the taxpayers freed from them it would be fantastic.
Can't: The effects of preservation of natural treasures takes time to be fully felt. I'm glad you agree we should do it, as does virtually everyone except the Godfreyites. So we agree on the thing that matters most. As far as being on the committees, the bureaucrats always told us to go piss up a rope. I'm afraid for most things it's the bureaucrats who set policy for the city, not the mayor, not the council. They have ways of getting what they want, and we are poorer for it. So we do need to cut them, a lot.
Cant Have It:
You wrote: crum.....your comment about projected population- Ogden's population hasn't changed considerably the early 1900's. How much do you expect it to change in the next 6 to 10 years?
UTA and UDOT do population projects ten and twenty years out [I think those are the parameters] so they can plan for road and transit development. The WFRC comparative study of transit options for Ogden [available on line, as I think the UTA and UDOT population/traffic projections are as well, though I don't have the URL for you] used the estimates to estimate potential ridership of the gondola, BRT and streetcar options. These are not what I expect to happen in Ogden over time. They are what the UTA and UDOT project is going to happen [populationwise].
Sure, curm you have to get your statistic from somewhere, and you have based your belief on a trolley economic development engine on those statistics. So are you saying your expectation don't match UTA and UDOT?
I think you meant that it is not you saying that, but UDOT/UTA. If not, then what do you expect "to see over time?"
Either way, your argument was that sure Ogden is not Little Rock or Portland, but projections 6 to 10 years out state that it will have the impact it has in those cities.
My argument is that 6 to 10 years out the population will not change considerably as it has not in the lasts 100 years and the economic development will be limited to taco stands (which I thoroughly enjoy, but hardly consider major economic development.)
We shall see.
On this morning's story on the SE:
The most puzzling thing about all this is the Mayor's lead quote about his opponent in the race trying to make him look bad.
It's getting downright embarrassing Our Mayor bungles his own PR again. His default response to unhappy news seems always to be "open mouth; insert foot."
OK, one more time [and I'm getting tired of writing the scripts the Mayor should have used for him for free. Next time, I'm sending a bill.] Here's what a mayor who is absolutely confident that he has done nothing wrong would have/should have responded to the news of the audit:
"My administration has done nothing wrong in handling the grant money. Apparently some in Ogden have doubts about that, so I welcome the state auditor looking in to how we handled things. It will be good to have any lingering doubts, however ill-founded, put to rest once and for all. I've instructed all members of my administration to cooperate rapidly and fully with the state auditor's staff. My only request is that he complete the audit as soon as possible so that any lingering doubts about how the City dealt with its grant money will be resolved well before the election.
We have a lot of important things to talk about in this election and groundless suspicions only take time and attention away from the important matters I.... and I hope the other candidates as well... intend to discuss with the voters in the coming months."
Of course, that statement is based on the premise that the Mayor is completely confident that his administration has done nothing wrong regarding the grant money.
Of a mayor who is not confident that that is so, or who is pretty sure that is not so, I'd expect instead a statement something like this:
""The intent is to make me look bad."
Hmmmm... where have I seen that before?
can't have it both ways....
Boy you really are a godfreyite, I like how you change the subject from corruption to transit. I think you are trying to have it both ways.
Just a funny little overlooked piece of the puzzle, The Ogden Community Foundation as been operating outside of there own bylaws for 2 years. the way its structured would lead one to only one conclusion, it's being nothing more than a clandestine extention of the administration. This is why Mrs. Littrell is stating that the minutes of their meeting should be made publicly available to anyone.
The same case can be made about how Ogden's RDA's are structured. To be truely autonomous, the director and staff should be independent of the city govenment, not the Administration and staff.
Can't Have It:
All I meant, Can't, is that population projections by UTA and UDOT [and I'm not in a position to criticize them or doubt them; they do such projections routinely as a basis for planning] underlay the WFRC ridership projections. That's all. Merely indicating that I didn't make the estimates up or pull them out of thin air. That's all. I'm not a demographic statistical analyst and am in no position to critique their estimates.
I think Curm, that the mayor is tring to cover up that fact that he is incompetent to lead the city and this just shows it. Just let him try to hide the truth of all this. but it will make him look bad. boo hoo boo hoo. whaaa whaaaa whaaaaa
I can see the big movement of impeachment now on the little dictator on the 9th floor.
There is a law that states he can be thown out of office. but they are just picking on me. please leave me alone.
After this audit is done are they going to look at all the no bid contracts the mayor has given out or is that just a politcal move also. so how many political moves are there mayor? why don't you start listing them all? I dare you, I triple dog dare you.
How dare you question my authority I'm the mayor and I get my meals for free.
I would like to clear up a bit of controversy. “Ogden City” population has not increased that much and will not increase much more. The only properties left to develop in Ogden City are “infills” which are small parcels nestled in-between existing development. They are not large enough to support much development. You may be able to place some multi-housing on them, but not enough to substantially affect any population statistics.
Any statistics coming out of the UTA/UDOT, I believe, include all of the surrounding areas within Weber County and possibly some of North Davis County. There plenty of areas for development in the outlying areas which would dramatically increase the population statistics. So it all comes down to ones definition of “Ogden”.
On another subject. As some of you are connected to Weber State I believe your view of the trolley system is a bit skewed. Though I believe there is much more merit to the trolley then a gondola it will not be used as much as you think. This is a car town, state, and part of the country. Those kids driving to the university will drive their cars even if the trolley dropped them off at the door of each class. They have been raised on cars and the freedom that comes with them. They will not give that up for a few dollar savings. They have to make the payment on the car either way so to them the only coast is a bit of fuel. I know it’s more complex then that but that’s how they think. Why would they drive their car down town to park it and get on a trolley? Let’s see. Driving anyway. Leaving my car miles away in a parking lot just waiting to get the window smashed out and my cd’s stolen. I can’t just slip out to Grounds for Coffee on a whim, and the trolley costs me additional. Notice how they forgot the additional fuel costs but hey, I only see that when I fuel up and by that time I forgot about where the fuel went. Get my point?
Now for my suggestions since some people believe that no one ever offers suggestions.
1. Close off 25th from Washington to Wall Avenue for vehicle traffic. Walking and trolley traffic only. Plant trees and bushes, redo the street in pavers or cobble stone. Give the business owners a limited amount of time to refurbish their storefronts to comply with a general plan or fine them. (You can’t allow someone to come in and buy the Star Noodle and let it sit for years in hopes another person will buy it.) This has all been done before in other cities. Old Town Sacramento as an example.
2. Have a local and an extended trolley system. They would need to use as much of the same track as feasibly possible. One section would service the hub, the Solomon Center, the river project and the Dinosaur Park. The other section would cover the Weber State / Hospital route but add in the Newgate Mall, and then back to the hub. I know it’s expensive but it could be done in phases and it covers a better rider friendly geographical area.
Just a suggestion.
Audit Smaudit!
An audit of the Godfrey administration by the Huntsman administration is going to yield the same result as the Republican State Attorney General did with his so called investigation of this bag of snakes. Innocent on all counts.
Count on it. Utah Republicans are just like doctors and bishops, they will never come out against each other. The truth be damned when it comes to protecting your own kind. Justice be damned when it comes to the people vs the evil NeoCon Repubs that control everything that moves in the state of Utah.
There is no way that Huntsman will allow his state auditors to embarrass the Little Lord, especially in an election year. The notion that the state auditors are somehow independent of the Administration is a total joke. The only possible justice on this matter would only come through a federal investigation and audit.
Also, the notion that Ogden has not changed or grown in a hundred years is just plain stupid. For starters, a hundred years ago there was practically nothing east of Harrison, and very little east of Quincy. Washington Blvd was not paved south of 30th street and north of the river. In addition the city was full of great empty spaces that were, or had been farms. When I moved to 34th and Tyler in the 50's none of the roads were paved yet and Weber College was on 24th and Jefferson. The current WSU campus was raw land and the Bowman farm. If you are going to spout history, you ought to at least read a little about it first.
Can't, Curm, and Anon:
Modeling of future transportation needs is much more sophisticated than any of you may realize. County-wide population projections certainly play a role, but the modeling of future growth and transportation demand is actually done on a scale of 5.5-acre grid cells. That's about half a Utah block. In other words, for each of these cells the model tries to predict future development, population, and trip origins and destinations.
The most recent round of travel planning has been based on projections through the year 2030.
Now obviously, a lot can change between now and 2030 so there's a good deal of uncertainty in the predictions. But they're not so sloppy as to pretend that people living in west Weber County will actually be living in Ogden City.
Based on this state-of-the-art modeling, the most promising location in the county for a future rail (streetcar) transit investment is the corridor from downtown to WSU and McKay-Dee. In fact, this seems to be the only place in the county where an investment in rail transit (other than the FrontRunner) will be cost-effective during at least the next ten years.
The rest of the county just doesn't have the density to support a big-ticket transit investment.
Someone claimed that Ogden's population hasn't changed much in a long time. Let's be more precise. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Ogden's population increased by 20.2% between 1990 and 2000. That's not as fast as Utah as a whole, but it still seems pretty significant to me. Don't underestimate the ability of "infill" to increase population. Portions of the central city are being converted from industrial sites and empty warehouses into high-density apartments and condominiums. There are many more opportunities for this kind of high-density residential redevelopment. It won't suit everyone, but the demand for this kind of housing is substantial.
Will WSU students ever give up their cars? Many will not, but the campus is out of space for parking lots so something is going to have to change. I'll bet there were cynics who thought 20 years ago that U of U students (and staff) would never give up their cars. Yet that campus has seen a dramatic shift to transit over this time.
Just:
Well, the WSU/Downtown line would also extend to McKay Dee which has, I've been told, about 800K visits a year [patients, family and visitors, and staff].
And your "cars always and forever" overlooks the probability [according to UTA] of increasing traffic approaching gridlock at key times in Ogden and Harrison in particular. Think I-15 to SLC during the rush hour. That kind of jamming can create... and with respect to Frontrunner I certainly hope creates... an incentive to ride the rails instead. Same incentive in SLC for TRAX.
Finally, given recent price trends and the coming production cap on recoverable oil [the point at which annual world production is expect to begin falling] --- which various oil industry analysts put at [low estimate] nine years out or [high estimate] twenty years out, price could be another incentive for people to ride public transit instead.
The point is, you make plans like this for anticipated conditions a decade out --- sometimes further --- and not for conditions as they are right now. Doing the latter all but guarantees that whatever solution you opt for and build [more and wider roads, TRAX , streetcars, etc] will be obsolete on the day it opens for use.
How dare you question my integrity!!! It’s true that I am not that smart. After all I am George bushes protozoa; I am getting tired of people treating me like a little skunk, a Richard Nixon want-a-be. After all I do have over 33% overall approval rating. This cleary gives me a mandate!!!??? After all what kind of government do you all think we have here in Ogden?
Oh, one more point: To my knowledge, nobody has ever done a study of what economic development might result from a streetcar in Ogden. The projections of population, development, and travel demand must make some assumptions about what transportation infrastructure will be in place, but don't include anything as specific (or exciting) as a streetcar, as far as I know.
But it's certainly worth asking what kind of transit-oriented development would be enabled and encouraged by a streetcar. I suspect there's great potential not just in downtown Ogden but also in the east-central neighborhood and along parts of Harrison. It won't be as intensive as in Portland ($2.3 billion invested over just nine years), but I'll bet the private investment would far exceed the streetcar's cost. In any case, someone oughta do a study to look at the possibilities.
p.s. In my previous post, the "Anon" being addressed has now been renamed to "Just".
Gentlemen,
I agree with you except for this. I do not believe that as designed there will be the ridership stated. The proposed Weber / Hospital line is too limited.
An example: 800,000 hospital riders annually by 365 days for a daily ridership of 2,191 visiting the hospital. (That is a lot of cars we could get off of Harrison.) Starting point: The hub with a few stops along the way. Now when dear old dad had his open heart surgery and we as a family came to visit not one of us came from a place where we could ride the trolley. And the hospital serves people from all over the county whose families are faced with the same situation as us. Thus, I wonder where the 2,191 people would come from. I don’t see that many patients, family or staff coming from down town. That’s why I made the suggestion of having a looping trolley system, but that too would need to be supplemented with a quality bus system to feed into the trolley.
I just feel like we somehow believe people are going to jump off of the Frontrunner onto the trolley and live happily ever after because it goes to the University or hospital. There needs to be more.
I hear all of the arguments concerning fuel costs congestion etc. but as long as people have disposable income I believe, they will drive their car and give up things like dining out movies, wind tunnels etc. And road congestion is something that we learn to live with because we are car people and that is the price we pay for the freedom. If this isn’t true why are so many people moving to Californication?
Just
Just,
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but please keep in mind that it's just that--an opinion. On the other hand, the official ridership estimates for the streetcar were based on careful modeling using a state-of-the-art computer simulation that incorporated the best available population and employment projections. Are the estimates absolutely accurate? Of course not. Any reasonably creative person can think of lots of reasons why the actual numbers might come out higher or lower. A lot will depend on the details of how the corridor develops over the next 20 years. I did hear recently that WSU is now projecting more students and staff on the main campus than what was assumed in the study two years ago. Regarding the hospital, I don't know how many streetcar riders it was expected to contribute to the daily total, but I'd be surprised if it was more than a few hundred. Remember, though, that the hospital station will also serve the Dee Events Center, WSU student housing, and a bunch of other businesses and apartments in that area.
Danny,
I read a small portion of the lengthy article. A bit grisly. Not sure the significance you placed on it nor it's relation to libertarian values. I hate to sound like I scanned it too quickly to get your point but I haven't time to read it all even at my advanced speed reading pace. Have yard care pressing and flowriding this evening.
BTW, not sure I claimed libertarian status but I like their platform over any other. Ron Paul is the only candidate talking any real sense not designed to appeal to the media and the general "Idiocracy"
Thanks for the link anyway. I'll stick to the repeal issue as my foundation for world peace and reformation. Really. So many of the world's ill's are tied to the imbalance created by a black market supplying contraband to distribution networks protected by corruption and creating usable capital for the dark forces. Repeal prohibition and the dark forces go broke. You think they have a vested interest in the drug war and prohibition. You betcha.
A heads up for the interested.
It is Jeffery BOOTHE (who couldn't recall his last name before).. who has been to Ogden a couple times to speak about the efficacy of streetcars to economic development/revitalization.
His speeches are full of facts and figures that relate to cities the size of Ogden.
Some of you did take the opportunity to hear him and ask questions.
Now, he will be appearing at Portland State University on Aug 26 and 27. Invitations are being extended to those truly interested in this matter and who would like to KNOW how to act to bring said revitalization to this area.
Gregg Scott of WCRFC is going as well as many others prominent in the community.
If you are interested, I'm in the book and will pass your interest along to the 'contact' person here. At a later time, that # may be posted here also.
Some of you could fly or even get a vanload of folks to drive to beautiful Portland and see what the streetcars have done there.
Also, the magnificent Rose Festival will be in full bloom at that time!
Thank you to Rep Hansen for pursuing the elusive $900,000. grant money. Mother, baseball, etc is correct is staing that the AMOUNT of money is not the issue.
It's the dishonesty. How much are you willing so sell your reputation for?
Walking out on a resturant bill of 'only' $20.00? Not telling the grocery clerk that she didn't charge you for a 50 cent candy bar?
Cheating on your taxes to the tune of a couple thousand bucks?
How much is too much or too little for your reputation and integrity to be on sale?
Honesty, Integrity, Forthrightness...isn't that we want in our elected mayor?
I beleive Rep Hansen will bring that back to Ogden...PLUS experience in governmental affairs.
He's already putting 'hands on ' help to local citizens!
And, as someone brought up: Neil did not go to China!
I guess we can all read the labels on our toothpaste ourselves, and Neil didn't have to tag along to save us from anti freeze in the Colgate.
Many kudos to Dorothy for all her efforts in uncovering the fiduciary corruption.
When Neil is elected our mayor, his first hire should be Dorothy Littrell...if anyone can put the books
in black, it's Dorothy.
She is a very smart, dedicated and knowledgable woman.
A real terrier for truth.
Neil and Dorothy...cleaning up Dodge after running the skunks out by sundown.
Observer:
Let's wait until the audit is done before we decide just how beneficial it will turn out to be for Ogden. Kudoes for Rep. Hansen taking constituents' concerns to the Auditor. But it may turn out that the audit concludes that nothing was done improperly. Looking into something does not necessarily mean something nefarious will be found. So let's just wait on the outcome before drawing too many conclusions.
Curm,
I can't believe that you would be so willing to overlook reality!
Have you talked to Dorothy? Ask her to email you her findings!
Of course this whole fiasco is 'improper'.
I agree with Ozboy tho, that the State Auditor may just go along with Loos and 'find nothing wrong'. THAT would be wrong!
Furthermore:
Why is there no rebuttal or anything from THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE and his psychopathic son, Short-deck Bobby? At the very least, they should be angry at all the "naysayers" who have quashed their Silly Gondola to Nowhere, have misrepresented the facts and that Teeny Matty Gondola Godfrey will some day make it all plain and save us all! Attention, Squirrel Patrol: Squirrel Patrol alert: Would you Geigers please put down the onion rolls and tell OTown how your six employees are going to save us again. Oh, and please don't forget about hair-replacement therapies and how you can't change your breath after 1,200 onion rolls. Geiger!
Observer:
Until it's proven, it's just an allegation. I've seen lots of people take terms, phrases from various documents, redefine a particular word or phrase in the most useful way, and then claim it all "proves" some allegation based on one particular [and often strained] reading of a single term. So no, Observe, I don't think anything has been proven yet. That's why some have asked for an audit. So it can be determined on the evidence if something improper was done. On the evidence.
Hansen and some of his constituents wanted an audit, asked for it, and got it. Makes no sense to me to leap to a conclusion in advance of the audit they wanted. If you're going to do that, why have the audit at all? Similarly, it makes no sense to denounce the results of the audit in advance as a Republican white-wash of one of their own. If you think that's probable, there was no point in asking for the audit in the first place. [I gather that is Oz's position, and it it least has the advantage of consistency.]
Observer, your post [and some of the others] smacks of "let's give him a fair trial, then hang him." The mayor's critics wanted an audit, asked for it, and got it. Now we need to await the outcome of what they asked for.
Geez, offend the onion-reeking Geigers and Curmudgeon, and, next thing you know...
The hot new onion rolls sweeping the upscale high brow gourmet circuit these days, according to food critics and personal friends and admirerers of the world renoun future camp cook at the Malans Basin hike in high adventure yuppie paradise, Wolfgang Puck, are made with VADALIA onions. Very sweet and aromatic, true believers of Wolfgang's caloric theory will only consume them after gobbing on copious amounts of freshly made aioli.
Next week, camp cookie Wolfgang, with the aid and extreme sacrifice of a local celebrety mystery guest, will feature "THE GREAT VADALIA ONION CHEEZE POTATO ROLL" and again there will be an abundant supply of fresh made aioli, to maximize the effects. Make your reservations early as the tents with the SOUTH TYROLIAN DOLL HOUSE REPLICA painted on the flap are filling up fast. To make reservations send resume and six references to, CHRIS (WAYNE) PETERSON C/O SHORT DECK BOBBY second floor, Bernie's future urban gondola shrine and high adventure emporium.
Please excuse me, I misresd the topic, I thought it said "boss Godfrey reveals pending state AIOLI. A thousand pardons.
Jason, a wise old sage of the dominant local theological hierarchy told me just today that, Ogden City would be better off if they had a "PET ROCK" occupying the 9th floor for the last seven years.
"He's been sooooo embarrasing" he said. OUST LYING LITTLE MATTY.
I guess that godfrey is just chomping at the bit, to have susie in the race. He knows that should she run for mayor, this will split off votes for hansen and then he will come out of the race looking like the winner again and I guess this is the result that susie is looking for when she is going to unite the city.
That is behind godfrey.
All this shows, is that susie to be a novice in the political world. She really needs to think this through.
I think that she should run for the seat on the council of the southeast corner and represent those people. This is her first policatal race and I wonder if she would be biting off more than she can chew and then we a taxpayer are left in a mess to clean up when all is said and done, I don't know if this is how she would want to leave things.
Tec,
I was just plumbing your libertarian leanings, to see if you'd go as far as letting people, when they die, sell their body parts as part of their will, for cash, since if they leave their parts, everyone else will make cash off them but the family members themselves.
As far as the "drug war," it always excites me to find someone who wants to get rid of it. This would be a great boon to our country, but few can understand why.
For some good articles on freedom, see the July Mensa Bulletin.
It would be nice if in a post Godfrey environment, this blog, and this city, could become a bastion of freedom, holding fast to the idea that happiness, and indeed, virtue, thrive in an environment where the government does what it's supposed to do and stays out of everything else.
Good start to the Farmer's Market today. Pretty good crowd for opening day. Thin on produce, but that will pick up as the season progresses. Lots of folks out for the music... blue grass family trio called "Blue Sage." Good foot-tappin' Farmers Market music. Working the table, I met travellers from Wyoming and Washington [state of], and a whole raft of people [a "raft" is a few more than "a bunch" and somewhat less than "a crowd"] asking about trails, street cars, wilderness areas and the like. Several had moved to Ogden in the last year or so. Couple of council members came by, and the Mayor, and lots of kids [with and without dogs attached].
A good start to the Ogden Farmers' Market season, I thought, though I hope more fresh produce starts to arrive soon.
Danny, I suppose if folks want to sell their remains that's an interesting twist. I sure would want to know the source of any if using them.
I'll check the Mesa bulletin. That Reason site is always informative.
I've been hitting the drug war button for a couple of decades to anyone who'll listen. It always gets brushed off as though it's some kind of fringe issue. It is bigger than the war on terrorism, the war in Iraq, it is the ubiquitous monkey wrench in the workings of world peace.
Curmudgeon
To be precise, a raft is exactly half of a grundle. And we know from previous experience that you learned about grundles right here on the WCF.
Just the Facts,
Van Hooser should run for Safsten's seat. She'd win. That's her neighborhood. She taught school there for a zillion years and is known to people.
Dirk could then run for her seat. Two valuable people on the council which is our legislative body, would be a more valuable use of her time and service to the community. And,m she needs to learn a lot more about city gov't. Anyone who is mayor will have to untange a coiled mess of slippery deals and bookkeeping. She isn't ready for that job.
Kent Peterson was hoodwinked out of nearly a million dollars by Wayne Ogden several yars ago. Is that the guy you want ovrseeing financial dealings and passing ordinances for Ogden City? Someone who is supposed to be business savvy but showed that he is greedy and gulliblr?
Don't we already have that in our Ogden gov't now?
Neil for mayor! Van Hooser and Dirk Youngberg on the council!
Serving Ogden.
Sharon:
I have absolutely no objection to citizens asking their legislators for an audit on a matter of public spending or any use of public money, nor to the state's Auditor looking into matters as a result of such requests. Only thing I'm a little leery about doing is jumping to a conclusion about what the Auditor will conclude before the audit is completed.
Curm,
Puhleeze...sometimes your penchant for 'fainess' keeps you from actually seeing the chicanery before your nose.
Dorothy already uncovered plenty...and if the Auditor is not working for his own gain, he'll absolutely see what is before HIS nose!
Did you buy Loos' assessment of the affair? Such dissembling, IMHO.
One doesn't 'jump to conclusions' when facts are laid out.
I was unable to attend the Farmers' Market. Happy to hear that it will be fun again this year!
Sharon:
In that case, Sharon, why ask for an audit at all? I haven't seen everything Ms. Littrell has uncovered, as you put it. Nor do I have any idea, at this point, what it might mean in legal terms. And I know she is a very interested party in this matter, and I've seen nothing from the other side relating to what she's uncovered. Given all of that, it seems prudent not leap to any conclusions based on a partial understanding of one side of a dispute... especially when the State Auditor is looking into it. And if you're going to dismiss whatever it is he finds, if anything, and concludes about it beforehand, then there was no reason to ask him to do the audit in the first place.
The election looms ahead. Already the prognosticators are advising VanHoosen of what she should or should not do. They are calling her a political novice, newcomer, someone who is maybe biting off more than she can chew. They absolutely know who should run for what, like Dirk for this seat, Neil for Mayor and Susan for her present seat.
My thoughts are that these people are actually the politcal novices. They come across as being so politically profound that they know what's best for those who have the courage to step up and serve. Yet they don't have the intestinal fortitude to stake out their own political position and make a run for office.
I also wonder how this city has survived without Dorothy and Sharon holding office. Maybe they should throw their hats in the ring.
Like they say, talk's cheap and bullshit walks.
Curmudgeon
Do you want to lay a hundred bucks on the outcome of the "audit"?
A agree with Ozbo that the fix is in. That doesn't necessarily mean that the audit should not be conducted anyway. Regardless of the outcome, it might just show more of the sleazy mechanizations of the Republicans that control Utah.
Any time you have a one party state you will have this kind of crooked activity and cover up going on. It is too bad that the Democrats in Utah are so damned incompetent. If they could get their collective asses together the government at all levels in Utah would not be such a sorry joke.
Surprised that Curm didn't come to that conclusion himself!
You do put words in other peoples' mouths, Curm.
As for me running for office, if I could, I would. Am fighting some other battles right now.
However, whoever you are, are you throwing your hat into the ring?
I, beleive it or don't, really do want the best for Ogden!
If the fix is in. Why would the state auditor even show up? I believe that we elected the state auditor, to be the check and balance on those that are spending or hiding our tax dollars, and the governor or the leg. or the mayor or city council can not nor dare not try to tell the state auditor to take a hike.
He is elected by the people for the people and works for the people. So don't tell me the fix is in. We the taxpayer are his boss not anyone else. Please get a clue to how the government is to work and then watch it work.
After all is he not doing his duty, as Rep. Hansen has said that he was doing his duty. To serve the people.
It's called political theater. It is a show for the masses. The small circle of manipulators that run the Republican party, and the state of Utah, are masters of the art.
The state auditor is a Republican. He is a bonafied certified member of the insider's circle, just like the attorney general who is also independantly elected. Loyal troopers to the gestapo neo-con creed they live by. The deciders, if you will.
The only way the state auditor is going to allow one of his fellow travelers (Godfrey) to be exposed for his standard GOP manipulations, is if he finds blatant instances where Godfrey put money into his own pocket.
What ever you can say about Godfrey, and the good Lord knows that is a deep pool indeed, I do not think he is putting money in his own pocket. Not directly anyway. After all, he does have more integrity than any one in the room!
Creating large political slush funds, as appears could be at the heart of this American Can scandal, is not a bad thing for these con artists - unless they get caught cheating on each other.
If they really wanted an honest audit on this mess, they would bring in a truly independant auditor from the outside. Someone like Jeff Hatch, the SL County auditor. He is also a former owner of the Standard with deep Ogden ties, although he doesn't live here now. He is also not a Republican.
As far as getting a clue about how government works, well, in the context of the rest of your post that is quite laughable. I think you are naive if you think that Utah government is working like goverment is supposed to do. I do wish your fantasy were real.
Polster:
You wrote of Ms. Van Hooser: They are calling her a political novice, newcomer....
Ah, well... she is a political novice and a newcomer.
[Note: That does not mean I think she shouldn't run. For the primary, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.]
Oz, wouldn't worry much about a FIX, The state auditor and the Gov., should be well aware by now, that there are 3 Federal agencies that have all the same documentation that they have, and will be watching very closely how they procede, as well as scrutinizing their determination. In other words, the auditor himself could become suspect, like pointing in a mirror.
Hey lying little matty, after the realization settles in, post election burnt toast, and you've had your ass handed to you by the people of Ogden, you may want to concider this alternative. Needles Ca. Right on the Colorado River. If any town could use your and CP's touch, Needles is it.
Route 66, High Desert Adventure, this place is just waiting for your RDA magic and it will be alot closer to Gadi while he serves his term.
The Geigers could relocate there too, help with your election bid.
Word is short deck bobby truely has a way with people, you couldn't have selected a better PR guy.
Ft Mojave is just up the road, you could run on an ECCONOMIC DEVELOPMENT platform, they might need a gondola to connect both comunities. PERFECT.
ozboy -
Why don't you take some Milk of Magnesia or an enema and get rid of some of your bile?
Why is it Bill C ALWAYS seems to follow up his post with another post? Is this guy so taken with himself that he needs to continuously validate his thoughts by putting more words on paper so he can continue to read his own alleged profundity?
Seems like it.
Neil is a nice guy; he can't win, however.
Unfortunately you might be right about Neil Hansen. Good Guys do tend to finish last here behind the Zion Curtain.
Mayor Godfrey's remarks in the Tribune Article that my investigation of the Ogden Community Foundation is a ploy by mayoral candidate Neil Hansen are absurd.
I asked for Rep. Hansen's help in getting copies of documents from the State Archives. I thought of him because he had been very helpful in passing the eminent domain law in Utah that was first in the nation to protect private property rights for the little guy.
I also used Hansen's contacts to get an appointment for me with Governor Huntsman to present the facts regarding abuse of the terms of the Utah $900,000.00 American Can property Grant Contract.
Rep. Hansen has impressed me greatly me with the way he proceeded to open doors for me to continue my research.
I have never had a representative of my own political party act so efficiently and willingly on any request for help locating pertinent information.
I was also impressed with the respect Neil Hansen has at the capital from his peers.
Let me re-emphasize -
This American Can Utah Grant violation research is and has been done strictly on my own and has been ongoing for months.
When my requests for information to John Patterson and the Ogden Community Foundation Board were ignored and later deliberately refused I started my search.
There has to be something going on if Godfrey doesn't want it talked about. He was the catalyst for my research on the Utah grant.
It has turned out that I am grateful to Mayor Godfrey for refusing information because otherwise I would never have known how astute Rep. Hansen is.
Neil Hansen will make a great mayor for Ogden. He is interested in providing services for everyone regardless of political affiliation.
He has my vote!
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