By Moroni McConkie
Now that the mayoral race is on, we need to know which candidate can implement and execute a smart plan to revive Ogden's fortunes. The current mayor has acknowledged that Ogden needs more high-paying jobs and laments that his own siblings had to leave Weber County to earn a decent living, yet his preposterous gondola obsession has proved that he doesn't have the wherewithal to be the player we need.
Historically, Ogden never had to grapple with how to become great. Its golden goose, the railroad, was not the end-result of a chamber of commerce campaign or a major tax credit scheme from a legislature; it was a historical accident. When the golden goose died, Ogden's principal economic pylon collapsed. So Ogden has no tradition of figuring out how to jump-start its fortunes.
I'm disturbed that Ogden can't supply its citizens with many essential services. All the legal work for Union Square was handled by Salt Lake firms. The elegant Wattis house on Eccles Ave. is being restored by experts from Salt Lake. There's not even a Weber Club anymore; Ogden society now heads for Salt Lake's Alta Club. For Ogden to be truly great, it must be able to supply these kinds of needs from within.
It's not at all clear that becoming the outdoor sports hub we're reputed to be can make Ogden appreciably richer. What would it take to attract major economic engines? How do other cities do it? Is it a matter of federal largesse? Could WSU gear up to become more of a research park-type magnet for federal money than it presently is? What kind of industries could we get? Health care? Financial services? Insurance?
The arrival of the FrontRunner in 2008 offers a means to reinvigorate Ogden. Instead of merely being a place of embarcation to Davis and Salt Lake Counties, could Ogden market itself as a reverse-commuting destination? Could we attract industries and employers that would get white-collar commuters from Davis going north instead of south? Could we create a retail and entertainment district that would induce the consumers of Brigham City, Logan, and even Idaho to stop here instead of continuing on to Salt Lake? Does this mayor's hostility to alcohol and Sunday hours preclude entertainment forums that would attract the big spenders?
I believe a suitable mayor would've long ago begun scheming to advertise Ogden as a cool and fun (and ideally, even lucrative) destination via the FrontRunner. Is there any sign of such effort? (No, because it would detract from the gondola.) The silence from City Hall is deafening.
What would each of our gentle readers do if he/she were Ogden's philosopher-king?
62 comments:
I would attempt a reincarnation of Wayne Peterson's famed Squirrel Patrol and advertise globally that our cadre of varmint-hating, forward-thinking, gondola-loving, silly, veracity-despising dupes, psychopaths, ex-truck drivers, trust-fund gravy-trainers, idiot heirs, ski knobs, jackasses and goofballs needs willing and able soldiers to rid OTown of its many nut caches. We would provide all patrolers with Patagonia vests and an endless supply of onion rolls; we would build our barracks by trading OTown's sidewalks for Whack-A-Mole games, as advocated by our delirious mayor, Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, so that one-tenth of one percent of the world's population will play our fantastic whacking devices; we would forsake food, as the pure hatred of squirrels and love of gondolas are the only sustenance our bellies will accept. Ogden will become a squirrel-hating mecca, and this will be our great economic engine that will drive us into the future! Heed the call, brave Squirrel Patrolers, heed the call!
Moroni:
Great, provocative question.
I think I've outlined some of this before, but here goes.
1. Streetcar transit IF AND ONLY IF a well-thought-out, independent study shows this would be of benefit to the city. (I'm pretty sure the existing study would be sufficient to show this, but I'd want to see it first.)
2. Turn 25th St from Union Station to Grant, and Grant from 25th to the Junction, into a pedestrian mall, tied into the mass transit system at the Frontrunner multimodal station and the above streetcar line.
Provide transit-oriented development in this area, with small shops and local enterprises so that if I want to live in Ogden and work in SLC (for example), I can pick up my cleaning, get my dog or child out of doggie or child daycare, and pick up something for dinner as I get off the Frontrunner on my way home.
3. Investigate the feasibility of a mercado or Plaza Mayor at 24th and Monroe, but obviously on a much smaller scale.
4. Pay above the prevailing wage to police and firefighters. Negotiate and establish meaningful performance-based standards (ticket quotas are a brain-dead method, and should be abandoned). Reward public safety employees who meet, and exceed, these standards.
5. Related to #4, re-establish free speech and First Amendment rights for Ogden City employees. Dissent is not sedition. Listen, really listen, to employees, citizens, and local businesspersons and act on their advice as appropriate. That's how a Republic really works, Mr. Mayor.
6. Address Ogden's pressing infrastructure needs. In particular, water and sewerage systems need to be updated and properly maintained.
7. Recognize that corporate welfare does not equal economic development. If we spend money on things that matter, given our current high rankings on "Places Rated"-type league tables, economic development will follow.
Interesting essay, MM.
I'm not sure there is an answer. Just as I'm not sure there is a silver-bullet one-big-project cure or fix for Ogden what will take us down the next thirty years or so on the upswing. Not sure we'd want it if there was one. Boom economies sooner or later become bust economies. [As the folks in Green River about uranium booms and busts or about shale oil booms and busts. Many other examples in many other states.] And when you place all your bets on one technological horse, sooner or later, a new technology comes along and suddenly you're old hat. [Think of all the flat-floored theater owners who got blind-sided when stadium-seating theaters came along. Or railroad towns that tanked when the truck and the car and the plan overcame them as ways to move people. And freight.]
Perhaps the key in a modern, rapidly changing, technologically-based economy [such as Ogden finds itself in] is simply to create an environment that encourages innovation, the is welcoming to new ventures of nearly any sort, that looks for ways to make start-ups easier with a greater chance of success, that spends some thought on how to improve the business climate for ventures already here.
And to keep an eye, through it all, on keeping Ogden a place people want to live, when they're not at work.
Lots of things go into the mix to create that kind of community --- water, streets, sewage systems, clean are, public transit, low crime, affordable housing, and much much more. I'd really like to get away from this notion that One Big Plan will, or can, in a modern economy, do it all, that one huge gambler's throw is what we ought as a city to be looking for... if only we could find the right bet to make at exactly the right moment. The odds are not good. They never are.
MM
You wrote: I believe a suitable mayor would've long ago begun scheming to advertise Ogden as a cool and fun (and ideally, even lucrative) destination via the FrontRunner.
Well, let's not overload Hizonnah with new ideas. Let's begin small. Let's hope that at least from now on we won't see Our Mayor saying on camera and in the public prints that Ogden's only 18 hole public golf course --- you know, the one Golf Digest just listed among the top ten public courses to play this year --- is "not golfer friendly."
Not much to ask, I agree, that he stop driving potential visitors and tourists away. But it'd be a start.
Moroni
You ask: "Could we create a retail and entertainment district that would induce the consumers of Brigham City, Logan, and even Idaho to stop here instead of continuing on to Salt Lake?"
Well, duh! The answer is written in the wind my friend. All we gotta do is build a mega million dollar city owned penny arcade and bowling alley in the middle of town and people will flock in from far and wide! We'll all be so friggen rich and famous that the entire movie industry will move here, led of course by the internationally famous "D" film producer Rupy.
The onlyest thing between us and Nirvana is one chicken shit little arcade. Common pal, catch the wave!
Dontcha know nothin?
I disagree with the concept of turning lower 25th into a pedestrian mall. I think the businesses there would object. The conveninence of storefront parking is too valuable. We already have nice sidewalks there.
I agree with the trolley car concept. This is a unique, attractive, and effective means of transportation that would revive Ogden's "rail town" heritage.
But why are we in such a rush to transform the place and watch property values shoot up to Salt Lake levels? Isn't affordable housing an asset? Certainly not if you ask the Godfrey cheerleaders over at Terra Venture Real Estate. Didn't the guy who moved that big recreation products company here recently cite affordable housing for his employees as a reason for choosing Ogden over Salt Lake?
And another thing, how did Terra Venture get the contract to sell all of Ogden's Own-In-Ogden properties? They shamelessly pitch for Godfrey. Is it another sweetheart government gig that Godfrey gave out to his minions?
Godfrey's Administration is so corrupt that I constantly think the worst. It's like I live in the Ivory Coast or Kazakhstan.
Moroni,
Very interesting and provocative questions.
I like the idea of a pedestrian mall...WA Blvd is neglected to the shoppers' needs.
Waaay back during the last cc election, Jeske and some of us touted an UPscale discount 'mall'...like Kimball Junction and down in St George. Always teeming with people.
A few well -placed billboards would bring cars off the freeway, down 24th street. Who doesn't like a good bargain?? And I think folks would come up on Frontrunner to shop in such a place.
We need LIGHTING acrosss WA Blvd....the island is in front of the Municip[al bldg...if we needed an island in the street, it was in front of Peery's Theatre...crossing the road at night means scurrying and hoping for safety.
We need those large overhead lights that come into the street like a large fan...illuminating the whole street and also install those 'walking' signs so motorists pay attention.
I'd like to see awnings on stores all over town...hanging baskets of flowers, lots of benches and 'patio' dining.
The ambience would be charming. And, coupled with streetcars, Ogden would be very alluring. I'd like to see cops and bikes and the horse patrol on occasion!
I'd also like to see store owners encouraged to PAINT their storefronts.
You are right....people shouldn't feel the need to go to SLC when Ogden should be the destination!
The Frontrunner will bring people...but what will they see and have to do when they disembark?
MM, Shouldn't we be asking this exact question to our ruling class, so comfortably set away from their constituents, in the City of my birth,D.C.
This is becoming very much a nationwide dilemma. It's sweeping the country. Manufacturing was the best thing this coutry had going for it, the source of our middle class. It's the best avenue to inovation and technological entrepeneur opportunity, all we need do is look at the rapid changes in India and yes, China, and many other places as well.
Without having that sector here, how can you possibly improve processes or invent new technologies, how do we even become familiar with the process in order to improve it? If you had not noticed yet, we are rapidly approaching the point that we can't even feed ourselves, we've all ready thrown in the towel on clothing ourselves. With the elimination of our manufacturing we're now forced to look at one real truth, the myth of free enterprize and opportunity.
As we complain about how large our government has become, on all levels, local, state,federal and all related institutions, I ask you to concider this, How much worse would it be if this wasn't the case? Majority of U.S. citizens are now totally dependent on the government in one way or another. By far the biggest employer, by far the biggest customer, our government spending is our ecconomy. Think of one sector of our ecconomy that isn't totally dependent on our government. And don't say Insurance, legalized ponzi scheme. Please exclude those that have bought their protection from your D.C. representatives,(DRUGS,ENERGY and the like). You may think professioal sports, but now they expect govenment to provide their arenas.
Good on ya MM.
It seems to me that Ogden government has ignored and done its best to alienate WSU. Here we have a great resource: knowledgeable faculty, dedicated students, cultural happenings, and it exists pretty much in imposed isolation. (BTW, for the poster who thinks University Faculty live high up on the hillside, it often takes two faculty salaries to afford a little house on the lower East Bench.)
Weber State has begun programs where students get out into the community as part of their studies, so the Mayor can't completely blame WSU for the lack of interaction.
I'd like to see more of a partnership - there are the Colleges of Health Professions, Business, Science (the latter with world-respected geologists and geographers, etc.) Why is the existence of these colleges and faculty ignored and sometimes insulted. ("It's all a farce!"- Matt Godfrey)
For example, imagine if some advanced WSU Business and Geology students had been given some basic information by the City and Chris Peterson and been allowed to study the gondola/gondola proposal, projecting its feasibility or lack thereof. That would have been a great learning experience and might have provided preliminary information to the City at little or no cost.
I'd be interested in hearing what people at the Business School would say in response to MM's post. We might get some interesting ideas.
The U.S. economy is a house of cards built and supported by cheap and plentiful fuel. That house is already collapsing and we are simply grasping for straws. The withering of our dependable energy supply will be long and gradual and we are in that midst. Ogden may be blessed for being already used to a deflated economy. Rebuilding our local economy is the only path to sustainability. Weber used to be rich agriculturally and has handed it's economy over to homebuilding and relentless growth. Does anyone get that this model is unsustainable and a threat to our national security.
Mass manufacturing will never return to the U.S. China and the rest have a huge in new equipment and the manufacture of real capital equipment. In other words the machines that make machines that make stuff are made there now so they are on the cutting edge forever. We will never again have a technological lead. The access to computer design software is ubiquitous. Places like Sri Lanka and Bolivia will outpace U.S. manufacturing growth as they strategically diversify their home manufacturing base for essential goods buying the essential machinery from China and India. All the while the U.S. imports more stuff and exports more jobs. Our economy has also been floated by foreign investment in our real estate. This is also turning as foreign investors have found manufacturing in their own area of the world to be a far more lucrative venture than holding U.S. real estate when our economy deflates. The dollar is already at lows to other major currencies.
Ogden should get real and a leg up by allowing gambling, medical/recreational Cannabis, escorts, and normalized drinking.
Tec
As Bill pointed out, the gummint is running most everything already.
Now you want them in control of Pot and Whore houses too?
lionel,
I only said "allow" these adult victimless activities. No need for government regulation. That is what we have now in the form of prohibition which is simply an extreme form of regulation. The government has no business in the personal lives and consensual activities of responsible adults.
Native said:
I disagree with the concept of turning lower 25th into a pedestrian mall. I think the businesses there would object. The conveninence of storefront parking is too valuable. We already have nice sidewalks there.
If I recall correctly, the businesses along 16th Street in Denver opposed the creation of a pedestrian mall there, for the exact same reasons you cite.
In the event, the pedestrian mall increased revenues and sales, rather than decreasing them.
Unfortunately, I can't find a citation now. Perhaps one of the others on this blog has it. See comment #12 in this thread from a Denver blog in the meantime.
Mono-
I'll grant you that, for the sake of the argument. But I am certain that a majority of the businesses will object to closing off the street.
So, we'd have to chalk this move up to the category of "we know what is best for business on 25th St., and trust us, your business will improve." Well, it will be a tough sell, and maybe not entirely popular.
I suspect that a DIFFERENT type of business will better prosper there under the closed-street condition rather than the types that exist there now. I think if there were better options for parking North and South of 25th, this would be more feasible. As it stands, parking is severely constrained on the North side lot (I know from experience), and I doubt it is any better on the South side.
For the record, I would prefer the closed street pedestrian mall, but I like to walk.
And thanks for the link. Interestingly, I based my suspicions of 25th St. on the reaction of downtown Seattle businesses to the proposal to close off Pike between 2nd and 4th, some years ago (I frequent Seattle more than Salt Lake). Basically, Nordstrom and other anchors said they'd leave. So that ended that proposal. Ogden doesn't really have that sort of powerful objection.
The Alaska Way dilemma is another interesting scenario that I have an opinion or two about, but hey, this is about OGDEN, not SEATTLE, so I'll drop it.
One fired employee who is really getting ticked in the teeth by Ogden is Lewis Reese, the ex-principal of Da Vinci Academy.
Da Vinci was created by the Utah Legislature at the request of the State School Board with a $900,000.00 grant lobbied for by Mayor Godfrey to acquire the American Can property for a High Tech Center anchored by Da Vinci Academy.
It is the role of the Utah State School Board to have their own separate audit done on Da Vinci Academy each June 30th.
That Auditor found certain discrepancies in the June 30, 2006 audit and instructed Lewis Reese, then principal, to take the issues to the FBI.
Lewis Reese did as they suggested and was fired for doing so.
He was not only fired but he has been blackballed by Ogden so that when he applies for a job and the prospective employer asks for a reference from Ogden the reference is couched to keep him from getting the job. Because of being blackballed he and his family are out on the street and have since lost their home. Their circumstances are becoming dire.
In early 2007 Da Vinci had their annual required audit of procedures and curriculum and passed with such high marks that they will not have to have another such audit for six years.
This was shortly after Lewis Reese was terminated after he had been responsible for the school until that time so it appears he had been doing his job very well.
His big mistake was in doing what the State Board of Education auditor told him to do.
I am bringing this information to light because everyone in Ogden needs to know how vicious and ugly Mayor Godfrey fights anyone who interferes with one of his plans.
You are going to ask what he has to do with Da Vinci Academy and the answer is "everything".
Scott Brown was the guiding hand behind Da Vinci from the day it became a plan in order to acquire the American Can property.
Da Vinci was created as a Charter School. A charter school usually fails within the first 3 years of operation. It was the Mayor's plan for it to fail so that Ogden would own all the property.
It would have failed except for the President of the Da Vinci School Board borrowing $100,000.00 in her own name to save the school in 2005. This was the year Lewis Reese became the principal who also helped save the school.
If you are going to vote for the next Mayor of Ogden please do your homework and know who and what you are really voting for.
Are they what they appear to be??????
A piece in this morning's SE Business section [link here] that bears on several of the posts above.
Here are a few of the opening graphs:
A new tri-county partnership hopes to attract and help more entrepreneurial ventures like the locally owned fabric shop, community leaders said.
Davis, Morgan and Weber county leaders announced Thursday the formation of “Stimulating the Expansion of Entrepreneurial Development.”
County commissioners from the three counties along with Weber State University President Ann Millner announced the joint enterprise.
The tri-county project is part of SEED Utah and led by Grow Utah Ventures, a private nonprofit organization. The aim is to encourage and support Utah’s entrepreneurs.
This may represent a slight deviation from philostophy, but maybe not.
I read this morning's follow up story on the recent shootings, one victim finally talks, and denies it was gang related. Normally you may be inclined to dismiss his statements, but do to the recent bad politicing of the administration, along with the fact that lying little matty (gondola still) godfrey has zero credibility, one must wonder.
Wouldn't it be nice to get a mayor with alittle more credibility than an ex- gang member ????
These kinds of questions are fun, but without constraints it's hard to know where to begin. Do I as philosopher-king have infinite money to spend, or am I stuck with inheriting Godfrey's debt?
One thing that would cost only staff time would be to write a good mixed use zoning ordinance, or set of ordinances, and apply these to downtown and other carefully selected neighborhoods. Unlike the MU ordinance that Ellison wrote, the administration tweaked, and the Council eventually passed, a good MU ordinance would accommodate small property owners as well as large ones, by requiring minimal red tape for small developments.
We should also, of course, pursue the streetcar recommendation and build it if possible. That means starting a more detailed study immediately, paid for in part by the $247,500 that Godfrey wants to spend on a gondola study.
Perhaps most importantly, I as philosopher-king would listen to everyone else's ideas and not act like I have all the answers. There are lots of good recommendations, including mixed-use zoning, in Ogden's General Plan which was developed with input from the whole community. The streetcar was a recommendation that came out of a careful study with many stakeholders participating. I would use similar processes to reach consensus on other important projects, instead of relying on "visions".
But wait, lying little matty is the leader of Ogden's most organized and powerful gang. They are at this very moment trying to steal and aquire all the prime property in Ogden,(downtown, riverfront, golf course and foothills) using things like RDAs and very strong armed tactics like poor zoning and deceit.
The real question is, of all the gangs opperating in the area, which truely is the most dangerous?
On pedestrian malls from streets:
I've seen them work [Denver] and I've seen them, in small sized cities, flop badly to the point that no businesses were left on the "malled" streets. This is the sort of thing that can work in some circumstances and not in others. I doubt Ogden has at this point the potential foot traffic on 25th to sustain a malling of the street [no pun intended]. Where such projects do work, they tend to draw on a larger population base, and tend to be at or close to the center of a highly effective, and successful [often rail] public transit system that brings people to the downtown street sans cars and takes them home again. None of that is in place in Ogden. Yet.
The problem at this point on 25th Street is not the traffic lanes but [I think] the fact that except for restaurants and a Private Club for Members or two [attn: out-of-staters --- that's Utahese for "bars"], nearly everything on the street closes in the evening. There's not much reason, even after a meal, to stroll the street. [That's some of what the city planner quoted in the Holly Mullen piece was talking about: to create life on a business street at night, you need businesses that are open at night.]
At some point down the road, there may be enough going on on 25th Street from morning opening to late night that a malling might work and take off... provided transit existed [easy, frequent and, if possible, fun transit] to bring people swiftly and comfortably down there and take them home the same way.
That's one of the things I have some reservations about in re: the Junction and River projects. They spread the business out over a loooong stretch. Ogden River to 25th Street and back is not a comfortably strollable distance --- particularly since there is not much to look at, visit, poke around in along the way. What there is, is clustered... or will be, I guess... at each end. And the Junction itself is [so far as I can see] largely oriented inward. I don't see it putting a lot of foot traffic onto Historic 25th Street. But we shall see. I could be wrong about that.
I'm with Native. I [and Mrs. C] like to walk around lively and alive downtowns. We do it when we travel all the time. In the evenings. On Denver's downtown street mall for example [which rocks... why they're so depraved they have sidewalk cafes at which you can take a break, have a beer or a glass of wine, maybe a snack if you feel like it, not if you don't, and then go on strolling, poking into the shops many of which stay open in the evening.]
That's what's been killed in SLC's downtown [see the Mullen piece]. Ogden, however, just does not have the population base to make something like that work. But there surely must be ways to put more shoes on the pavement of a warm summer evening on Historic 25th Street than are there now.
I'm very glad to read the fine comments in response to the Philosopher-King post.
Did anyone see "Ogden: Junction City of the West," the fine documentary by young Issac Goeckeritz of WSU? It noted how Ogden's "Cowboy" Mayor Harman Peery (back in the 30s-40s) realized that he needed to get people off the trains and into town to spend! And he was highly resourceful at accomplishing that.
I'm also glad that Ogden has such fine people, a representative sample of whom is right here on WCForum. You can hardly expect other good people to move here without that.
Curm: I think you're quite right about 25th St. and downtown. While the potential is there, and while in theory it would be fantastic, the store fronts and foot traffic just aren't where they need to be at the moment. Whether the FrontRunner brings it in remains to be seen.
You mention Denver; have you ever strolled Las Olas Boulevard in Fort Lauderdale? Now THERE is a long stretch, and yet it rocks. Every time I'm there I "have a dream" of how 25th Street could be Ogden's Las Olas. In fact, I'm always telling relatives, "Roosters is the new Mangos!" (Mangos being a popular eatery at Las Olas and 9th.) Roosters' energy at Fri. happy hour actually manages to approach Mangos'.
And speaking of businesses' needing to be open -- can anyone give the scuttlebutt on what happened to the Star Noodle?
Grant St. between 23rd and 25th is atrocious. Linking the Junction with 25th should be high priority. I have been visiting downtown more in the last month than in the last 2 years thanks to the flowrider. The only thing of interest on the walk from the Junction to 25th is the Church and the empty Post Office. The historic architecture and masterful masonry is eye candy to a practitioner. Wish the church had not added the faux stone plastering at some time in the past. A real detraction from the core building.
I don't think a pedestrian mall would be necessary. One must realize that the lifestyle of the early and mid 20th century is what built these aging downtowns and those days are long gone. Perhaps Target or another mass retailer can be approached to create a test mid size downtown store. They have these in NYC and elsewhere. Combining a comprehensive transit plan with incentives to bring mass retailing to a downtown may be the answer. As long as people have easier access to lower prices they will continue to go to Riverdale or the next BigBox zone.
I really like the possibilities for 24th/Monroe. It is astonishing how little attention this area gets from city hall. It is arguably the city center and reflects both the wealth and greatness and the recent decline of Ogden.
A transit infrastructure would address these zones and fuel a revival and create a lifestyle in Ogden that would be the envy of cities with less foresight.
Unfortunately, our current administration thinks they have the vision but are encumbered by blinders and delusion of grandeur.
I agree that the river project is reaching and a couple of decades out of context. Setting a guideline for the future is good but creating frustration for current residents and businesses with false starts and aggressive speculation is unfair and will dilute efforts for downtown and the mid city.
MM:
Never been to Ft. Lauderdale [except for a weekend in my misspent youth which I will deny under oath if asked about].
Since Mrs. Curmudgeon and I hit Ogden just over five years ago, we've been exploring western places we've spent a lifetime reading about but never visited. San Francisco. Seattle. Portland. Denver. Salt Lake City. Zion. Moab. Canyonlands. Jackson, WY, the Tetons and Yellowstone. Plus revisiting Santa Fe, Taos, Red River and Albuquerque [old favorites in New Mexico]. Except on business now and then, I don't expect to get back east much, and then it'll be to New Orleans or DC.
Boise next. I'm told they have a Shakespeare festival in the summer, that it's a small but interesting and walkable town, with, apparently a a block full of Basque restaurants to serve the sheepherders. [Or so Ted Schiffler, food writer of the SL City Weekly said in last week's issue.] Have to check that out. Plus, an on line friend from Boise relates, interesting micro-brew pubs.
But if fate takes us to Ft. Lauderdale, will check Las Olas Blvd for sure. And Mangoes. Thanks for the tip.
By the way, in re ideas: be good if Ogden's old what's happenin' magazine, The Street began publishing again. SLC has The City Weekly to keep folks up on what's happening, events a week ahead, the music scene, the arts scene, restaurants, sports and such like. Plus one lead substantive human interest or digging article to draw readers in. [I think The City Weekly formula --- though maybe with a little less "in your face, establishment!" tone might work well in Ogden.] The City Weekly covers Ogden events only intermittently --- much like the SL Trib. You'd think with The Junction opening, and more, much more [we are told] to come, that it'd be a ripe time for The Street or something like it to reappear.
Just an idea....
People buy a lot of stuff and require a vehicle to transport it home. How did people ever get along before personal transportation? Delivery services. A reordering of infrastructure to accommodate a less energy consumptive lifestyle is what is needed. Leaders approach these transit and redevelopment issues with slackjaw mentality. Our downtowns are little more than Disneyland Main Streets that are mere caricatures of the lifestyles that built them. No one buys shoes from a shoe store anymore. No one buys shoes that are repairable. There goes at least two possibilities for shops in a downtown. Suits and dresses. forget it. Hardware? scratch that.
To reinvigorate a downtown requires the participation of the local residents. A transit system will begin to invite residents to experience living in the city and invite retailers to experiment with distributing their goods via delivery either by their own system or a private enterprise of local delivery vans and bike couriers.
Thanks for everyone's comments.
I think Dan S. hit the nail on the head. I may well be wrong about the potential for a pedestrian mall.
But it's not my vision, it's not divinely inspired. It's just an idea that I, as Philosopher-King Monotreme I, would float in the community, gathering input from a wide variety of stakeholders, and then make a decision based on a function of public opinion, public benefit, and cost.
That's how all competent administrations approach development, right?
I think that this City would do better to promote itself as a place that people want to live in, then a place where people could come and play. All the suggestions are good but what do people really want? Why are we not looking at the criteria of those National Polls that rank “The best places to live”? If I’m not mistaken those polls talk about low crime rate, good infrastructure and good schools to name a few. We should be striving to be ranked as the #1 place to live in the country. We have some of the best views and places to play in the world. So here are a few ideas that we should think about.
Let’s increase the pay for the police and fireman to help make this City the safest in Utah. Let’s fix the old pipes and drainage issues throughout this City to make it a nice clean place to live. Just look at NY City with the 100 year old bursting steam pipe or at 29th and Pingree when it rains. Let’s crack down hard on the gangs in the schools so we can attract better teachers and have the safest schools. Let’s make a better working relationship with builders and contractors so we can rebuild this City. Let’s pass some new City Ordinances to limit the number of families that can live in one house. Let’s crack down on the slum lords in this City and make this the City to buy a home in and not be a renter. All these ideas are obtainable and realistic. They will take time but the results will be a wonderful place to live. So I ask why Ogden can’t be the best place to live.
Curmudgeon
When you visit Boise be sure to check out the old rich area of town. There are a number of fabulous old houses, most are in grand original condition, and/or have been restored. The most interesting thing in that area is how they have captured the natural underground steam and used it to heat and cool those houses. This was done back before this sort of alternative energy was all the rage.
curmudgeon -
Visit Ashland, Oregon. Delightful walk-any-where town with an annual Shakespeare Festival known wordwide. Also, a local college,
delightful restaurants and good shopping.
Also no state income tax.
I would go in a minute if it weren't for my family located in Utah.
Why Not:
You wrote: I think that this City would do better to promote itself as a place that people want to live in, than a place where people could come and play.... So I ask why Ogden can’t be the best place to live?"
Just want to note that those don't have to be mutually exclusive ends. And shouldn't be.
The usual argument against your idea [focus on making Ogden first and foremost an attractive place to live] is that Ogden is very close to being built-out [now that the Mayor's proposal to sell the city's parklands on the bench for a housing development has been given up because, the Mayor now concedes, it was not feasible in the first place]. And so, the argument goes, Ogden can only grow marginally in terms of population, so we need to make it a short-term recreational destination in order for it to grow economically.
I'm not sure that's so. When you can no longer build out, the solution is to build up. We're seeing some of that now with Mr. Reid's condo on the Junction site, for example, and I expect we will see more of that sort of thing when Frontrunner actually arrives. Certainly SLC has underway a mini-downtown boom in multi-story condos. The largest under construction sold out, I think, shortly after construction began. And more are planned. On a smaller scale, I suspect something similar will happen here.
Especially if we follow the recommendations of the Wasatch Front Regional Council and put in streetcar transit on the recommended route from downtown to Harrison, thence south to WSU and McKay Dee. Experience in other cities suggests that significant money will go into enhanced housing along the route.
But there are downsides to making Ogden a premier place to live, a place where high-enders want to live, like say Boulder, CO. The advantage of "affordable housing" --- a key reason [one of three] the head of Amer Sports listed as why his company chose Ogden over SLC --- will disappear. If Ogden takes off as a very desirable place to life for the upscale homebuyer, it will undergo a kind of yuppification. Great for property values; not so good for renters, not so good for those on fixed incomes or low incomes, who will see their property taxes soar with the value of their properties... until [it is possible] they will reach rates they can no longer pay and will be forced to sell out and leave. [I saw that happen on Long Island, NY.]
I suspect the arrival of Frontrunner will trigger something like I've outlined above.... provided as you note Ogden City government does not strangle the boom in the cradle by ignoring the basics: good police and fire protection [meaning a declining crime rate at least], good roads, good schools, good basic services like water and sewage, parks, recreational opportunities in town and so on... these are expected in upscale communities, these are the basics. Much more can happen as well, but without these basic municipal services in place at acceptable levels, nothing much else will happen.
Ogden is going to be an interesting place to live over the decade following the arrival of the first Frontrunner train... for better or worse.
Oz:
Will do Oz. Thanks for the tip. Sounds a little like Pagosa Springs, CO, where the school and other public buildings are heated by hot water piped up from the thermal springs that gave the town its name.
Check It Out:
Never been to Ashland. But will add it to my list of Western places to see. But if it's been discovered as the good place to live, I suspect housing price may already be out of reach.
Curmudgeon said: “Not much to ask, I agree, that he stop driving potential visitors and tourists away.” I would add that Godfrey stop driving potential business development away when it doesn’t agree with his “ski” theme. We would all be sick if we knew how often he’s done that and how many businesses that he driven away. Because of the way Godfrey treated one multi-million developer who did not embrace the gondola idea, said as he left the meeting with the Mayor, “To hell with Ogden! It is the last place I want to do business! I wouldn’t do business in this town even if they paid me!” WOW!!! There have been a lot that Godfrey has discouraged and turned away, but they haven’t been that vocal.
Godfrey has done this so many times, just so that he can use the RDA and dictate the kind of development that he wants. He doesn’t care about Ogden – it’s an ego trip for him.
Monotreme and Why not the best both have great ideas for Ogden if they became “King.” I agree with many of their ideas and concerns – better pay and incentives for the police and firefighters, take care of the water and sewer pipes, etc. I don’t recall who stated the concern about how the retail shops would be spread throughout a large area and weren’t convenient for shopping, but this problem must be addressed if downtown which includes the river front project, is to be successful. Ogden has an increasing aging population, and it is difficult for these seniors to walk very far, so I will forcast that they will go to the Newgate or Layton malls to do their shopping – not downtown Ogden. Even younger people are often in a hurry so they will go to where the stores they need to visit are located conveniently close to one another. One thing that may help with accessibility to the shops and restaurants in the river front area would be to have a little trolley that would take them from 25th St., Wall Ave., and numerous other locations to the river front shops. Better planning needs to be done by Ogden City and whoever becomes the new mayor.
Dan S... I direct this at you as I think you have probably studied the the issue more than most, but where would a Street car fit? Harrison seems to narrow to a tracks and keep turning lanes. Or would it be one set of tracks with cars going one way in a loop? What would be the logistics of this apparently favored system.
Also, regarding 25th Street pedestrian issues. I agree businesses would be against it. But I think experimenting with it on weekends might be interesting. But honestly, I don't think there is enough draw yet. It would basically make the street look very empty most of the time.
tgif,
I believe the assumption in the feasibility study was that along most or all of Harrison the center turning lane would be eliminated. But these details are still very much up in the air. Along the northern part of Harrison the streetcar might be able to share a lane with automobiles. In front of WSU the road is already very wide so there's lots of flexibility. In the next round of studies we need to look at all the options and figure out which one is optimal in terms of cost and minimizing impacts to auto traffic. Of course, we'll never even get that far if the mayor keeps opposing any further study of the streetcar.
TRAX in SLC shares the road with auto traffic in most of the down town area.
Hey Ox... lighten up. The last time I was called a D film maker was in the NY times for a western with Burt Lancaster that is now a classic, and that was from someone a lot more schooled, articulate, and experienced than you. So ... continue to throw your barbs out this way. We are watching.
This blog continues to be fantastic material for my new mini series proposal, and Oz, I have contacted Richard Lynch's agent about portraying you. Kathy Bates has decided that playing Sharon is a challenge, and Schroeder, Bill Hurt is coming out of retirement, complete with beard, to portray you. Others ... Curm, Jack Nicholson, and Tec ... Boris Karloff in a return appearance. The best news is that Jimmy Stewart has agreed to return as THE MAYOR.
It's a wonderful life!!! ,,, and Oz ... please don't call me Rupy.
Only Burt Lancaster westerns that would qualify as classics I can think of are "The Unforgiven" [much underrated, at the time of its release and since] and "The Professionals." He did some other good work... "The Rainmaker" and "Elmer Gantry" for example... but they weren't westerns.
Cattle Annie and Little Britches
Burt Lancaster - Bill Doolin
Rupert Hitzig - Producer
"Cattle Annie and Little Britches"
Domestic Total Gross: $534,816
Uninspired Western about a couple of teenage girls who join the Doolin-Dalton gang, and take to the outlaw life like ducks to water. Highly derivative in its playing with themes about a-changing times and a-shrinking frontiers, it is also plagued by one of those awful cheerful banjo sound-tracks that should have been abandoned back in the days of Bonnie and Clyde and Butch Cassidy.
Hey short deck bobby, papa potato nose, lying little matty, Bernie, well fed tom moore, failed clothier hardman and all your cheep vision buying candidates. Here's a guestion that would seem quite appropriate at this juncture,
what's the new replacement vision? The bus tire tracks should all be healed.
This fine positive and inquisitive thread has been going for two days now, you guy's have no imput? How should we read that? your lying little visionary suffers temporary election blindness, and tosses you and his old worn out vision under the bus, you regroup in time to find a roster of Ogdens most deluded souls left(with probable integrety issues, follow the leader) Rudi and Moroni give you and yours a chance to enlighten the public as to how we should proceed, and you turn out to be nothing but a bunch of BS naysayers by ommission. NICE.
We can only assume your silence to mean that lying little matty was practicing his stock and trade(lying his ass off again) when he pronounced the key elements of his initial delerium(VISION) dead, with a very large headline. Leopard's spots, pinnoccio, chicken little, whats the deal?
You spend one whole day unable to answer the simplist of questions that resulted in you feet landing squarely in your mouths and now dead silence. Are you admitting your cult like devotion to the assinine Urban gondola was your only true savior, and your just fresh out of ideas?
Rupert, While you are soiling your lungs on Hollywood air trying to get a grasp of what drives us Ogden locals, I've been spending a grundle of benjies down at the Junction supporting this city. Get a clue and either move here or shut up.
Tec:
You wrote: Highly derivative in its playing with themes about a-changing times and a-shrinking frontiers....
Cat Ballou did it better. Much better. Even with Stubby Kay on banjo.
Hey Ruppi baby, did you ever catch the part, LONESOME COWBOY BERT played and sang in 200 MOTELS? His full name was BURTCHEM REDNECK. FINE MUSICAL.
Rupert,
Too bad your selection of actors never have nor ever will work the grade of movies churned out in silent desperation by your uninspired Hollywood career. No offense but your work is hardly noteworthy. I hate to be so harsh but you put us up to it with your bellicose taunts and inference that we may be less sophisticated than thou.
Here's a few stinkers that come to mind.
"Nowhere Land"
"Night Visitor"
"The Outlaws: Legend of O.B. Taggart"
I'd be plain embarrassed to flaunt this body of work to anyone.
Hey producer, Who is we? You got a turd in your pocket?
Rupert
Fair enough on the "Rupy" thing. Sorry to offend, but I must remind you that this site is partially about good old fashioned Ogden kick butt fun. Now that we're older and have a little more sense our "combat" has become much more stylized than it was in our youth when we punched each others lights out in the parking lot - just for fun of course.
If you are going to come up here and play in in the OHS parking lot with us Ogden boys you are going to have to grow a thicker skin. My thicker skin incidently served me very well in the dozen years I spent in Hollywood. (Grandview Drive in Laurel Canyon)
But Rupert, you do sometime come across as rather phony and pompous to us natives. Just the kind of guy we luvs to josh with here behind the Zion Curtain. If you ever come down off your high horse and really become an Ogdenite, instead of the pretender and poseur some of us interpret you to be, we will defend you with the same zeal we now vilify you.
In any event, I am sure you are a nice accomplished guy, and this is all in fun. All in fun that is with the exception of the shots we take at the mayor and his sycophants who we find to be disingenuous carpetbagging punks.
I don't know who Richard Lynch is so I'm not sure if you were insulting me or not. It's OK if you were incidently. A true Ogden boy can take it as well as we can put it out.
You are obviously going to need some serious help in your casting choices. Cathy Bates for Sharon? I think Ruth Gordon (bless her soul) would have been a much better choice! You just gotta get Anthony Hopkins for the Curmudgeon part. However, your choice of Hurt for the Shroeder role does seem inspired. Nickolson would make a much better Rudi than he would a Curmudgeon. I don't know Tec, so the jury is out on rather Karloff would be a good fit there.
You are way off the mark on thinking of Jimmy Stewart in the Godfrey role. Stewart was much too honorable, classy and dignified to play such a little rat bastard. I think if you will compare pictures and moral characters of Godfrey and Pee Wee Herman you will find the most natural fit of all.
As far as you "watching me" - well, I assume you are either trying to intimidate or flatter me. If it was an attempt at intimidation, I can only surmise that your true calling could be comedy. If it was flattery, well I guess I am flattered. Thanks.
Now about some one from the Times being more "schooled, articulate, and experienced" than me - you don't have to go all the way to Noo York City to find that, hell man, there are people at the Standard Examiner right in Ogden that fit that bill!
So Mr. Rupert, we do hope you stick around, you are one hell of a lot of fun to kick around. It wouldn't be near as interesting if you didn't throw some good punches back!
Once you get over this irrational hero worship of that scummy little bastard mayor of ours, you might just fit in up here in the land of Oz.
Carpetbaggers is right on the mark as it pertains to the Mayor and his entire circle. None of them, including the Mayor, are from Ogden. Not one.
Mayor Godfrey - Harrisville
Harmer,
Patterson - Salt Lake
Reid
Brown - Montana?
Gadi
Rupert - Lost Angels
(Chief Greiner is from Ogden but is not believed to be a true insider of the Godfrey administration)
Lou:
You said, “(Chief Greiner is from Ogden but is not believed to be a true insider of the Godfrey administration).”
No doubt corrupt Chief Senator Greiner is an insider of the Godfrey administration. He is appointed by Mayor Godfrey.
He fires cops for speaking out against his administration.
I hope you don’t have these two guys ever come after you; the way they came after Officer Jones and his wife.
Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I always like to hear from Rupert.
And whether his movies are good or bad, he does make a living in Hollywood, which is saying something.
I note Cattle Annie starred Burt Lancaster and Rod Stieger, so I find it odd that I can't find the movie at all on Reel.com.
Is this one of those movies that was made because there are retired dentists, businessmen, and the like who go to Hollywood wanting to bankroll a movie, so somebody lines up some people and they shoot one, but spend nothing on marketing because the movie was not really intended for release?
Well, keep posting Rupie, there's at least one person who likes to hear from you. But do understand that I fear your political sense is about as good as your movie making.
Democrat and Lou:
Well first, let's remember that voters in Ogden voted against Greiner's election to the Utah Senate. Yup, the people who know him best said "no." If it wasn't for the 500 or so voters from Davis County his Republican cronies gerrymandered into his District, he would have lost.
And Lou, this is the US of A. One of the great things about it is that when you move from one town or state to another, you immediately become a resident and citizen of that city or state, with not one iota less right to vote, run for office, express and opinion on public affairs in the public prints, or whatever. So with all due respect, I think your suggestion that somehow, the Mayor and his Crew are less worthy of election or trust than others [and that does seem to be what you were implying] because they were not born and raised in Ogden, is flat wrong. They are "from" Ogden in the only sense that matters. They live here now.
Besides, there are many more and much more sound reasons people should not trust or rely on them. The places they were born and raised are waaaaaaaay down on that list.
Oz:
You wrote You just gotta get Anthony Hopkins for the Curmudgeon part.
Hmmmmm. Were you in casting back in the day when you were in the biz? If not, you truly missed your calling.
PS: I have my doubts that the lasted Producer post is from The Producer. But fun anyway.
The title "Producer" in show biz can mean almost anything. It certainly does not mean what it used to do in the Cecil DeMille days. If you notice, alot of the product out now days has a whole shit load of people listed as "Producer" or "Associate Producer" (usually the same thing as producer but with maybe a slighly smaller ego).
All "producers" are not created equal. Just as there is an enormous difference between Jaws and Jaws III, there is also a big difference in the "Producers" of these two examples.
The exception on this "Producer" title thing is the recording industry where "Producer" still means what it always has. In that case it is actually what most of us think of as the "Director". The person who is in charge of the creative aspects.
In the Movie and TV game a "Producer" can be a person who raised money, a person who invested money (that Dentist from Peoria). A person who does a lot of production work for a title but little money, A honcho's girl friend (or boy friend if you know what I mean), A studio executive that has very little to do with the project, an actor with power and ego to match, or even in the traditional meaning - the person who is in charge of the whole deal.
The title "Executive Producer" usually denotes the actual big shot who really is in charge. Either the big and famous money guy, or a top studio executive that makes the big decisions or owns the joint.
Given Mr. Rupert's credits he could have acted in any or all of these rolls on his various projects. I believe he might have also been the Director on one or two of these films, which means he more or less was responsible for how good the films were.
Normally a "producer" who is not in charge of the whole deal has very little to do with the artistic merits of the project. If they are a "producer" who actually works on the film they will most likely do as much work (good or bad) on any given film no matter how good or bad the film ends up being.
So being a "producer" on a turkey is not necessarily a bad reflection on that person's talent or abilities. This means that even if you do not appreciate Rupert's movies it doesn't mean he is without talent or merit as a film maker. The bottom line is he apparently got these films made, which is a hell of a lot more than the overwhelming number of people do that go to Hollywood with big dreams of being the next Speilberg.
So let us not judge Rupert on rather we like his movies, but on what good he can or cannot do for Ogden. Meanwhile lets continue to kick his little show biz ass as long as he supports the little idiot on nine. (all in fun of course)
Oz:
Thanks. Good post. Informative and I learned a lot. Always nice.
I notice that The Produce has a writing credit [story] for "Electra Glide in Blue" which has become something of a cult classic and didn't seem to me to be chopped liver.
Especially liked in your post So being a "producer" on a turkey is not necessarily a bad reflection on that person's talent or abilities. This means that even if you do not appreciate Rupert's movies it doesn't mean he is without talent or merit as a film maker. The bottom line is he apparently got these films made, which is a hell of a lot more than the overwhelming number of people do that go to Hollywood with big dreams of being the next Speilberg.
Nicely done, Oz.
Thanks for the nice words, for a change.
Yes, it is so difficult to get a film made that I applaud for the opening credits, cause I know what it took to get them there.
Burt would have loved to have done THE UNFORGIVEN, but that was Clint. ThTanks Danny, and Oz, I see you can write when you are clear headed.And Tec, you are just like Fox News … selective reporting … out of sixty projects you picked the three that I scraped together and don't like myself. But I am proud of Wolfen, Gemini, Electra Glide In Blue, Much Ado About Nothing, The Last Dragon, The Squeeze, and many more dvd’s I am currently producing.
Meanwhile, I just have one last thought from LA.
Your City has wonderful potential, and we who visit actually love it ... its natural setting, your River, the City's warm, usually hospitable and interesting citizens. I want to thank you for the mountains, the air, the civility on the streets, the inexpensive Sushi, and the open air amphitheater which I visited last year. Relax ... it's going to be a wonderful place for me to visit and for you to live in.
Producer:
Not "Unforgiven." That was Clint Eastwood, acting and directing.
"The Unforgiven" which stared Burt Lancaster and Audry Hepburn --- her only western I believe --- and was directed by John Huston. Memorable too for Lilian Gish's role. Came out in 1960.
Rupert
You wrote: "it's going to be a wonderful place for me to visit and for you to live in".
That is close to the heart of why you and other wannabe "saviors" take so much flack on this site. Well, I got a hot flash for you pal, we don't need none of your saving! (yes, I know about double negatives)
Ogden has been a wonderful place for longer than you and I have been walking around this earth. It was here and wonderful long before us, and it will be long after we're all pushing up daisies. It was wonderful when my great great grandparents arrived here, and hopefully my great great grand kids will find it the same.
Your "savior" kind of attitude really rankles us'n natives. When you come across with that silly stuff you remind me of the teenage kid, who after first experiencing sex, thinks he is the first to ever discover it!
All the great stuff you are finding out about our Emerald City is the base line to us. All of this dumb bull shit that Godfrey is saddling us with is not Ogden. It is not the future of Ogden. It is just a huge debt for a bunch of short term nonsense that is going to cost us all for a long time. We will all be paying for it long after it fails and is gone. None of it is going to make Ogden any richer in the things that are attractive to people and make this place so liveable. It's just going to raise our property taxes and will have no corresponding benefit to our way of life. It is the product of the dilluted mind and outsized ego of one twisted little arrogant twerp.
Godfrey does not represent the true spirit of Ogden. He is a temporary aberation and minor league punk who's brief time in the sun is just about over, God and the voters willing.
If you like our town because of the flashy penny arcade and bowling alley, you could of saved yourself a lot of money and grief by taking a short ride through Newhall pass to the real amusment park over there.
So welcome to the land of Oz Rupert, but why don't you leave that phony crap about saving us from ourselves in La La Land where disingenuous, flashy and phony rules?
And one more thing Mr. Rupert, saying something nice about you is not any way shape or form an indication of how "clear headed" we are. In fact it is just as likely to mean the opposite! You taking it that way may just mean you have been in LA so long it has warped your own thinking processes. The fix for that is moving here. It sure worked for me after I came back after a dozen years in LA and almost the same amount of time in NYC.
If you like Ogden now, you will love it even more after we wash the disgusting stain of Godfrey from our lives.
Oz:
Has The Producer ever dealt with the fact that the Mayor is now a naysayer and has said that the original Peterson proposal involving the park sale for real estate development was never feasible in the first place? Looking back over his posts, I don't think so.
Thanks, Rupert, for not taking serious offense. I honestly believe you fit well in the OGD. Like me, you may have been taken in by the big ideas of a few dreamers downtown before getting to know the technical, logistical and natural limitations to these visions. I'm glad you have stuck through the often biting commentary here and mellowed. Your last post was quite welcome and even handed. Please do come visit regularly and invest if you can. I am in deep here and quite happy about it. Ogden is clearly the finest city I have ever lived in and you couldn't get me out of here with a 6' pry bar. It's o.k. that the Geigers and Godfrey got to you before you had time to research what all this gondola spiel was about. Take some time on your next visit to steer clear of the cronies and discover Ogden without their guided tour and sales pitch. Come on up to the bench and take a hike or mt. bike wheeler creek. Maybe see a moose like I did last Sunday. You won't see one of them in SoCal. I hope you have gotten some perspective and begun to see that those of us posting here have only good intention for Ogden and are far from naysayer mentality. You will never catch me being some blind ass negator. I'm positive, constructive and tried multiple times over the last two years to get Godfrey and Geigers to get off their high horse and look at some facts instead of obsessing over an unattainable vision. They failed and now they are the naysayers.
"Your City has wonderful potential"
Rupert,
I do have to take a little issue with this statement. "Potential" implies something is missing or some goal unattained. Please take a moment to think about the inference of those words. You, being a writer, should be able to see the implication. Hollywood had some potential, now look at it. I'd say Ogden has hit the sweet spot and I like it that way.
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