Comments on Weber County Forum: Are They Serious? Are We? - Updated

Well Sharon, I'm just sharing some facts about pro...

2006-08-15T11:57:00.000-06:00

Well Sharon, I'm just sharing some facts about process, not aligning myself with a bunch of houses that haven't even run the process yet. No conspiracy here; just thought the readers would like to know the sequence of steps that developments go through before approval.

Maybe if you followed along, you'd quite with all of these foolish conspiracy theories and accusations that everyone is out to make a buck and is therefore a "bad guy." Boring stuff, actually. Your needle is stuck in the groove.

Hmmmmm...let's see...you are a realtor...many 'inv...

2006-08-13T23:17:00.000-06:00

Hmmmmm...let's see...you are a realtor...many 'investment bankers, realtors, construction types' were at some open meetings I attended when old CP and Godfrey were schmoozing the crowd.

At one of them, Ed Allen had everyone stand up and introduce themelves and tell 'a little about yourself'.
That's when I heard who was pushing for a place at the table for a big slice of the pie.

You identify yourself as a realtor. Are you licking your lips over the big slice of 350-400 homes on the hillside pie?

It appears that the ones so avidly pushing the Peterson Plan are those who have a financial interest to reap.

The rest of the people who aren't trying to make bucks off the Plan are taking their time and looking at every aspect. At least the aspects that we can actually get a look at.

Godfrey and Peterson don't want to reveal too much because 'people will just twist the answers'.

Yeah, right.

Reassuring, you bet.

Much concern about TESTS. Testing will occur, in ...

2006-08-13T12:48:00.000-06:00

Much concern about TESTS. Testing will occur, in their proper sequence. One can't perform a test until one knows exactly what is going where and how that effects the land parcel. And the testing is most generally the final term of the Development Agreement to be addressed....why, you ask....because they cost money, lots of money, and the princiapls have to figure out what party is responsible for what test. These "tests & evaluations" are a "condition" that if the findings come back satifactorily, the project can proceed.

Nothing clandestined here because no tests have been conducted. Like I mentioned, all of the other ducks must be put into a row prior to the testing. This is really boiler plate stuff here that everyone is getting so worked up over. Testing happens as part of something called a "transaction process," and all aspects of that process have their time, place, financial responsibilities, etc. outlined. Satisfactorily completed terms and conditions MUST take place before ANY building permit is issued for ANY proposed project. Let's not get ahead of ourselves over these testing worries. Instead, let the process proceed and we'll see how things shake out.

Most often, the developer's nickle, Abner old boy....

2006-08-12T15:02:00.000-06:00

Most often, the developer's nickle, Abner old boy. There are times, however, when the Seller might need to spend a few dollars, er, ah, nickles, to bring his property up to buildable standards.

The real world scares alot of you people, doesn't it? There's something sinister around every corner, it seems.

On whose nickel, Mr Realtor?

2006-08-12T01:27:00.000-06:00

On whose nickel, Mr Realtor?

There is one overriding fact here, referencing Dia...

2006-08-11T15:19:00.000-06:00

There is one overriding fact here, referencing Dian's take on the Peterson letter to Mayor Godfrey, and that is "subject to conditions appropriate to protect the interests of the city." This is a very boiler-plate phrase that is used by either principal in a real estate transaction, a catch-all term that is most often used to protect the interest of the Seller. It covers all, the amendments, the testing, the financing, the usage, the roles of each party, the time, et al. With that phrase in the contract, or Development Agreement, the interests of Ogden City will be protected, which is something we all want. It provides for various tests, etc. to proceed, feasibility studies to be preformed, and will be a sensible and reasonable road map to determine the feasability of this project.

Or did your mayor sign a Pre PRE Development agree...

2006-08-10T18:15:00.000-06:00

Or did your mayor sign a Pre PRE Development agreement by Aug 4?

Kinda like the severance pkg he had with Reid?

Just to show he shares the same vision, dontcha know.

Maybe I did miss the secret handshake.

Dian,That last paragraph you quoted is really quit...

2006-08-10T12:50:00.000-06:00

Dian,

That last paragraph you quoted is really quite remarkable. Peterson sends a letter to the mayor dated July 21, requesting that a pre-development agreement be approved by August 4. His lawyer then makes a presentation to the City Council on August 8 that outlines most of what's in the letter, but doesn't even mention a pre-development agreement. I hope someone will explain whether they're still proposing a pre-development agreement or not, and if so, what it would say and when and how it would be approved or rejected by the city.

Sharon,Here's something:...In addition to contempo...

2006-08-10T11:43:00.000-06:00

Sharon,

Here's something:

...In addition to contemporaneous and mutually conditioned Approvals, we specifically propose that the closing of the sale of the golf course be conditioned on the Developer's provision of financing, bonding and/or other financial assurances sufficient to assure the completion of replacement golf, replacement and expanded public trails as ultimately approved by the City and Developer and certain other key features of Projects that are mutually agreed to be essential in the first phase of construction. We believe that the approach outlined in this point 7 will protect the respective interests of City and Developer.

There is a project list--there are seven different ones.

There are also paragraphs dealing with the actions of "City and Developer," but these deal mainly with negotiating this approval process.

Since they want the development agreement to be the "regulatory tool" for the project, it looks like the things you mentioned would have to be contained in that agreement.

And they want to start that process now.

...We propose for the City's condisderation the following approach to address the Major Policy Decisions and the anticipated Approval Processes:

A. Initial Phase. During the initial phase, City and Developer will (i) identify any additional Major Policy Decisions, (ii) identify all applicable Approvals and Approval Processes, (iii) obtain City Council input on the Major Policy Decisions, and (iv) reach final understandings regarding the Approval Process framework to be followed. City and Developer will enter into a Pre-Development Agreement that will reflect the results of this phase and describe the anticipated obligations of the parties in the subsequent phases outlined in the final Approval Process framework. Developer proposes that this phase be completed by August 4, 2006.

The date on the letter is July 21, 2006.

And, Dian, where in the letter did Peterson tell w...

2006-08-10T09:47:00.000-06:00

And, Dian, where in the letter did Peterson tell what HE is going to do? Did he say that in return, the Developer will provide feasibility, geotechnical, environamental impact studies?

Did he say HE will order and pay for all engineering and other studies??

Did he say that he, Developer, will 'show us the money', investors, banking institution(s, contractors, etc?

Did he offer ANYTHING from himself?

Thought not.

There is a letter from Chris Peterson to the Mayor...

2006-08-10T08:58:00.000-06:00

There is a letter from Chris Peterson to the Mayor outlining the process he wishes Ogden City to follow for his project. It is very long, but I will type in a few excerpts here:

In developing our Approval Process proposal, we have considered certain Major Policy Decisions, each of which must ultimately be finalized in order to approve the Projects. Our Approval Process proposal is made with the assumption that each of the following Major Policy Decisions will ultimately be approved at an appropriate time in the Approval Process, subject to conditions appropriate to protect the interests of the City:

...The City Council will be asked to amend the Zoning Ordinance to create a new "Planned Community Development Zone" to authorize and regulate the development and construction of the Projects. The PCD zone would ber a flexible zone, allowing Developer to propose a conceptual plan consisting of the proposed configuration of the Projects, the proposed uses and densities, (etc.)...

...The City Council will be asked to authorize the use of development agreements to regulate the Projects within the PCD zone. The development agreement would become the essential regulatory tool of the city...

...The City Council will be asked to annex the lands necessary for the Projects that are not yet within the City's boundaries and to amend such planning documents as may be necessary...

...The City Council will be asked to amend the General Plan and any applicable neighborhood or other planning documents to contemplate and be consistent with the Projects and to contemplate the creation of a new PCD zone and the creation of development agreement authority...

...The City Council will be asked to vacate public rights in and sell the existing Mr. Ogden golf course land and to vacate any public rights that may exist in certain trails on private development lands...

...The City Council will be asked to use its budget authority to authorize the funding for the Cross-Town Gondola Project.

The City Council will ultimately be asked to proceed with the following final Project Approvals as a package and not as separate, isolated Approvals: (1) approval of the annexation of any land; (2) approval of the general plan amendments related to the Projects as distinguished from general plan changes necessary to make ordinance changes; (3) approval of the development agreement authorizing and vesting the Projects;and (4) approval of the sale of the existing golf course and the vacation of any public trail rights across development property...

Historical Perspective,Too good to leave here.Plea...

2006-08-10T08:17:00.000-06:00

Historical Perspective,

Too good to leave here.

Please send that to the SE so the masses can read it.

I know a lot of the LO's tune in here from time to time, but they are slow learners, apparently.

Send it to the paper...Trib also, so the townsfolk get the real picture.

Historical Perspective: From your lips [or keybo...

2006-08-09T21:05:00.000-06:00

Historical Perspective:

From your lips [or keyboard] to the Council's ears....

Let’s recap for the sake of perspective:Ogden has ...

2006-08-09T16:56:00.000-06:00

Let’s recap for the sake of perspective:

Ogden has a declining economy and subsequent lack of funding to support local government and public services. After evaluating our resources and assets, a faction of local businesses and special interest parties decide to revive the comatose gondola scheme. The idea is to lure tourists to Ogden where they can have the unique experience of riding a charming network of gondolas from the city center to Snowbasin, a truly world-class Olympic venue. The attraction opens interest in Ogden and exposes outsiders to other natural attractions, not to mention the value of WSU. As an added benefit, the gondola system would provide additional transportation benefits. WSU, which has struggled with parking issues for years, would now get some relief as students could commute via gondola. On the surface, this seems like a pretty nice plan to me with a comfortable ROI.

Now fast forward… It’s been a couple years since this idea has been resurrected and as Lando Calrissian said, “This deal just keeps getting worse and worse all the time.” The gondola won’t go to Snowbasin, but a low elevation, West-facing, non-existent resort, with steep grades and limited space. The area is extremely prone to slides, fires, and the plagues of Egypt for all we know. From what I understand, the only way in or out is gondola, so there will be no access roads for construction, emergencies, etc. Oh yes, and the gondola will consist of one line over scenic poverty-stricken homes to the Mt. Ogden golf course (I won’t even address its fate here). From there, it will go to WSU (when hell freezes over because there’s no way WSU or the state of Utah Dept of Ed. gives away that land) until it reaches its final resting place. We’ve lost the attraction of Snowbasin, we’ve lost the convenience of a strategic transportation alternative, we’ve lost the appeal of a gondola system, and ultimately we’ve lost the economic infusion this plan was designed to spur. It’s doing something for the sake of doing something with no benefit to the economy, the community, WSU, or anyone other than Chris P. and company.

Thanks Chris, Matt, the Chamber, and of coarse, Lift Ogden. It was a good effort, but it didn’t work like we wanted, and at this point, no thank you. City Council, that’s all you need to say, “Thanks but no thanks.”

MombThank you.Godfrey and Ellison...trams, gondola...

2006-08-09T13:16:00.000-06:00

Momb

Thank you.

Godfrey and Ellison...trams, gondolas, just keeping it all in the family, eh?

It was interesting that Godfrey and Ellison didn't have the secret handshake...acted as if they'd never met.

zhpe sbput CorruptGate, WeaselGate,
Inegritygate, Greinerdiditgate, Skulkerman, TheTailgate Man.

Maybe Mr. Ellison should consider hiking the prope...

2006-08-09T12:43:00.000-06:00

Maybe Mr. Ellison should consider hiking the property that would be impacted by the proposed development. Then he may understand why silly issues like slope angles, landslide and fault zones are concerns.

Just a thought.

Southsider... Ah, the good 'ol days of rock...

2006-08-09T12:30:00.000-06:00

Southsider...

Ah, the good 'ol days of rock...

Momb, great research! Thanks. Interesting to see ...

2006-08-09T12:24:00.000-06:00

Momb, great research! Thanks. Interesting to see Stoel Rives is large Oregon home-of-the-Portland- Aerial-Tram-firm.

Nice work.

Sharon, I don't know much more about computer than...

2006-08-09T11:32:00.000-06:00

Sharon, I don't know much more about computer than you. I just copied the web addresses and pasted them in my original post. You could just try a web search and see what you come up with. That was my tactic.

Here are a couple of others about their association with Big Money or Big Interests. I haven't found, yet, where they are helping the little people.

The Oregonian: Wilshire's Law Firm Faces Suit
JEFF MANNING 09/01/01

Stoel Rives LLP, Oregon's largest and most prestigious law firm, is the latest Portland powerbroker to become mired in a scandal involving Portland investment manager Capital Consultants.

Two groups of the money manager's former clients each filed a lawsuit Friday in Multnomah County Circuit Court alleging that Stoel Rives played an integral role in allegedly fraudulent business transactions dating back to 1994. The deals cost Capital Consultants' clients more than $350 million. The case has spawned a flurry of lawsuits as former clients attempt to recover their money.

Stoel Rives for years represented Portland entrepreneur Andrew Wiederhorn and his Wilshire family of finance companies. Also named as a defendant in the nearly identical lawsuits was Mark Peterman, the former Stoel Rives partner in charge of the Wilshire business. Peterman represented the former Wilshire Credit Corp. in the years that it borrowed and then failed to repay $160 million to Capital Consultants.

"Using their high degree of legal expertise and experience, Stoel Rives assisted those individuals and companies in perpetrating one of the largest pension fund losses in U.S. history," alleges the lawsuits, one filed by private clients and the other by a group of 33 union trust funds. (see site for the rest of the article)

NEW FORESTRY PICKS TIED TO TIMBER

Gov. Kulongoski in late January made three appointments to the State Board of Forestry without any input or consultation with Oregon's environmental community. Each of the appointees, confirmed by the Senate over protests from environmentalists, have strong ties to the timber industry, according to Jed Jorgensen of the Oregon Conservation Network.
The appointees to the board are Barbara Craig, a professional forester, and natural resources attorney with the Stoel Rives law firm in Portland; Stephen Hobbs, an OSU forestry professor and research dean; and Jennifer Phillippi, forest land owner and business manager of Rough & Ready Lumber and Perpetua Forests Company. (see site for the rest of the article)

MombUnable to access those links. I can detect a c...

2006-08-09T11:05:00.000-06:00

Momb

Unable to access those links.

I can detect a con when I hear it, but I'm not computer savvy like youse guys.

How do I view those sites?

So Peterson brings a lawyer ( from law office Stoe...

2006-08-09T10:48:00.000-06:00

So Peterson brings a lawyer ( from law office Stoel Rives: self-promotion at http://www.stoel.com/showrelease.aspx?Show=775) to the meeting rather than people armed with engineering plans and geological information about how he CAN build on the mountain.

The lawyer, when asked about geo issues said "they're not knowledgeable of site conditions." I heard him say that like he was brushing away a fly.

Great, they have a legal team but no geo defense. Because building on these slopes are not defensible?

By the way, check the $12 million homes the legal team helped to facilitate at Deer Crest. Something that will fit right into Ogden. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2497639974092543328

I have this fear that Stoel Rives eats mid-size city councils for breafast. It seems like a steamroller heading for us.

And neither does Peterson. He's been asked to dis...

2006-08-09T10:41:00.000-06:00

And neither does Peterson. He's been asked to disclose his solvency before. Ignored.

The financial obligations of Peterson, et al were not to be discussed til the END of the 'PLAN'.

Let us pray that this council does their due diligence and just like Nancy Reagan...."just say NO!"

Ogden already has a reputation in the rest of Utah...

2006-08-09T10:37:00.000-06:00

Ogden already has a reputation in the rest of Utah and probably the whole country for not knowing what day it is.

The whole City Council looks insane and very very stupid to even keep talking to this guy much less to continue having meetings with him.

Tell Chris Peterson to look for some other suckers.

It is also evident that he has not investigated the financial condition of Ogden.

Ogden's balance sheet doesn't qualify for any more debt and certainly not for the millions involved here.

Exactly, ANON.I had that in my notes, and overlook...

2006-08-09T10:27:00.000-06:00

Exactly, ANON.

I had that in my notes, and overlooked it. Thanx.

The telling part of that answer is the first part: "I don't know."

Sounds like you were there also.

Slimy, slippery slope. (off our mntside)

You all left out one important point that Council ...

2006-08-09T09:43:00.000-06:00

You all left out one important point that Council Member Wicks ask. What entity will the city be dealing with? Ellison's answer was something like "I don't know but most likely an LLC".
So the city is fully committed and the developer will use a limited liability company that he can walk away from when the going gets tough or after he's taken the major upside profit out of the development and leaves Ogden City to try and connect the remaining pieces to salvage what ever they can from the deal.