Comments on Weber County Forum: Kicking Off a New Utah Legislative Session

Perhaps these 'homeless' need to be rounded up...s...

2007-01-18T16:44:00.000-07:00

Perhaps these 'homeless' need to be rounded up...some evaluated for the mental hosp/services...others to the employment office specifically for 'day' jobs or the kind of work business owners/others may need some temp workers to fill.

I think some of these lost souls can be redeemed thru work, and something positive to DO...Welfare offices should have a dr there to give a physical for those coming in for their checks. Healthy???? 'get a job...this check is your last...so get busy'.

Too many cities make it easy for the 'homeless and mentally ill and just plain 'bums' to get off the freight train and stay while. When the services aren't fulfilling every void in their lives, many will move one.
I would hope Ste Anne's will have real help for these people: HOW to fill out an application, HOW to dress, How to conduct oneself in an interview....HOW to give an employer a day's work.
The YCC has donations of clothing for women to dress for success...perhaps Ste Anne's does now? Or Could! Also, no booze and smoking around there should be the first requirement.(KEEP the MONEY in their pockets)
I'm very familiar with the good work the Salvation Army does in Portland, OR.
They run a facility in which men live...taking care of their space...work sorting clothes, etc in the SA's clothing outlet (rather like Desert IND, but larger)...cook, janitorial, etc. Each resident is required to be in attendance at a short non-denominational religious service each morning....and on Sundays, each resident comes to the dining table with a shirt AND tie and clean pants.
The men can receive counseling and they are required to attend AA and/or NA daily.
I've seen lives changed.
Each of us needs a purpose in life...to feel and BE useful. I'd like to see as many people as are now wandering the streets without purpose be given the opportunity to participate in such a program.
Local dentists could donate their time and skills. Giving a nice smile to these men/women will help them as they pursue a different lifestyle. Barbershops and beauty shops could be solicited to help out. A community effort.

Well, not to throw yet another log on this particu...

2007-01-18T14:09:00.000-07:00

Well, not to throw yet another log on this particular fire, the NY Times today has an article about a shopkeeper of a "high-end East side store" in NYC who is suing homeless folk who gather outside his shop because they are, he says, driving away business. Link here.

There is a lead editorial in the SE this morning o...

2007-01-18T08:05:00.000-07:00

There is a lead editorial in the SE this morning on the proposed move of the St. Anne's Center to 12th Street. It can be found here. It's pretty compelling, I think.

It raises an issue I hadn't thought of before: that there are now clustered in the general downtown area a variety of service providers used by the homeless [state health department, Rescue Mission, etc], and it asks how services to the homeless would or could be "improved" by moving the St. Anne's center away from the clustered services now provided near where the center already exists. Good questions, seems to me. It asks if the center is to be moved, if it wouldn't make a lot more sense to move it to another location within reasonable proximity [which means I guess easy walking distance] of the service cluster already in place. [And it takes the Administration to task for trying to tap dance around, and flat out deny, that getting the homeless, the winos, the panhandlers, the derelicts [pick your favorite] out of the hoped-for up-scale downtown development area.] As I said, interesting editorial, well worth a read.

Mr. Safsten's point about there being many different kinds of homeless, with a significant variety of problems and needs, is a good one as well. And he offers substantial corroboration for the fact that the St. Anne's management supports the move. Taken together, Mr. Safsten's information and the SE editorial suggest to me that the administration [and Council?] has not thought this out as much as the matter requires, that the planning has not been done as thoroughly as it ought to have been [see the SE editorial comments on the "hope" that moving the center will "draw" private medical services practices out to 12th Street to service the homeless, etc.]

Seems the planned move is just not ready for prime time. Not yet. More needs to be looked at, considered, explained and planned for, seems to me at this point.

Dear Outraged, I can only relate what Mrs. Reza (s...

2007-01-18T07:15:00.000-07:00

Dear Outraged,

I can only relate what Mrs. Reza (sp?) talked about at our Council Meeting last Tuesday night. We see her quite often and she is obviously very actively involved in Ogden based on the other comments she has made in the past.

And, I am sorry but I cannot tell you exactly which day the article was in the paper quoting the director of St. Anne's. We have been told that the leadership of St. Anne's is in support of the move. However, to get this from the horses mouth, the City Council has requested that the administration get a letter from the Board or Director of St. Anne's positively giving their support for the concept of the move to 12th St. That way we are not dealing in hearsay or relying on newspaper quotes.

Reading from the comments from others, I think it is important to think about the different "types" of homeless there are out there. There is a category of folks that choose to be homeless. They don't want to settle down. There is not much that can be done about this. There are the mentally ill, alchoholics, or drug addicts which have their own set of issues. There is the category of the single male as opposed to the single mother, or mother with children. There are drifters. There are people that simply need a temporary place to live for only a few days. The "Homeless Shelters" must deal with all of these categories. Hopefully, the efforts and programs in place will be able to house all but those that simply choose to be homeless. I hope and believe that is what the proposed 12th St. location will be able to provide better than the current building at St. Anne's.

Do the 'homeless' people work by day?When I lived ...

2007-01-17T20:31:00.000-07:00

Do the 'homeless' people work by day?

When I lived in another state, the Employment Office had a group of men/women who were day laborers waiting for a job to do. Ranchers/ builders, others would come by early in the morning and hire.

Do some of these people work like that? I've noticed many inebriated persons staggering around and ALL seem to smoke. They're getting their money for those items soemwhere.

Outraged: Several points. I imagine one [but onl...

2007-01-17T19:34:00.000-07:00

Outraged:

Several points. I imagine one [but only one] reason we see so many homeless in the downtown area is that that is where St. Anne's center is providing services to them. As to your question, where will the homeless not near 12th Street access services if the center is moved there, I suppose the reply would be "where do the homeless not downtown access services?"

If there is to be one major provider of homeless services [warm meal, beds, other assistance] in Ogden, and I haven't seen anyone suggesting more than one like St. Anne's, then no matter where you put it, homeless men "from" other parts of the city will have to travel to access its services.

I suppose one question we need to consider... and its sounds kind of silly on the the face of it... is this: where to Ogden's homeless "live" [cluster, hang out, spend time... use whatever term seems best to fit]. And how much of that is determined by the nearness of a center like St. Anne's and how much is determined by other factors? [I don't know the answers to those questions. Just questions now that we've started talking about this that have me wondering.]

Being as ignorant as I am about this topic, have to say I would probably tend to be swayed considerably by the opinions of the St. Anne's board and the opinions of other who work with/for Ogden's homeless community. Really is time, I think, for a good chewy SE piece on the proposed move, pros, cons, opinions of stakeholders in all this. I wonder too what Ogden writers who have discussed the homeless or I guess "drifter" population downtown might be another way to put it think about the proposed move. People like, for example, Charlie Trentelman. And a few others.

Could you, Mr Safsten, tell us the issue of the SE...

2007-01-17T13:30:00.000-07:00

Could you, Mr Safsten, tell us the issue of the SE in which the STE Anne's board is quoted as preferring the 12th St location? I missed that. Also, just where does Ms Reza work that most of her 'homeless' clients are nearer to 12th St....We surely do see alot of these folks walking around in the downtown area and near Ste Anne's. You haven't addressed by what means the folks who are NOT near 12th St will access a warm bed and meal. Thank you.

Councilman Safsten: Thanks for providing the info...

2007-01-17T09:35:00.000-07:00

Councilman Safsten:

Thanks for providing the info that the St. Anne's board favors the move. I don't think [could be wrong... working from memory] that information was in the news lately. And good [in my view] that you acknowledge that the presumed inappropriateness [aka lack of "fit"] between a downtown homeless shelter and planned downtown development is one of the factors involved. [The spokesman for the administration quoted in the paper implied the sole motive was altruism --- better services, etc.]

Given what you wrote above, I'd be curious to know [and this is not a question directed to you but more broadly] who is opposed to the move if the St. Anne's oversight board is not and if at least some of those who work with the homeless support the move on grounds that the new location would be a better one?

Thanks for replying here to questions others have raised. I'd be curious now to see the SE do something on the proposed move, something that spoke to/reflected the opinions of stakeholders on all sides of the issue.

Outraged, I believe a homeless person doesn't care...

2007-01-17T07:02:00.000-07:00

Outraged,

I believe a homeless person doesn't care where the basic services are provided, as long as they are accessible. Providing the very basics is most important, but having a facility provide ways to stop being homeless is even better.

If the Union Station is the anchor for our downtown and if 25th Street is the unique attraction to draw people to Ogden, why would we want to have a homeless shelter next to those facilities? Who is benefited by that? IF the basic services for the homeless are provided somewhere else, why not do that?

The only argument to me that makes sense to have the shelter downtown is because there are service providers downtown and because of the intermodal hub (transportation). I am interested how these services will be provided to those in the proposed homeless shelter on 12th Street. We will ask questions about this. Interestingly, we heard comment last night from a Mrs. Reza (sp?) who works with the homeless who gave support to the relocation, noting that those homeless she worked with came from areas in Ogden actually closer to 12th St. than downtown.

I am personally supportive of the change based on 2 premises. First, the existing shelter is too small, is rundown, and cannot provide the additional services needed by the homeless. Secondly, we have been told and have read in the newspaper that the St. Anne's Board would like a new location and they support the 12th Street location.

If the St. Anne's Board wants to move and if they support the 12th Street location---great. If the shelter is moved away from downtown attractions without sacrificing basic and even intermediate services to the homeless, so much the better.

Mr Safsten,Please give us your honest and candid a...

2007-01-16T22:27:00.000-07:00

Mr Safsten,
Please give us your honest and candid assessment of the mayor's purging of our city of undesirables.
His latest plan to move St Ann's out by the BDO is simply a ploy to rid our streets of rabble and unwashed masses.
Do you or any other Council member have the guts to tell this little king to fall off his throne?

Dear Anonymous, Any person would have access to th...

2007-01-16T15:22:00.000-07:00

Dear Anonymous,

Any person would have access to the internet at any public library. There are other places that have the internet available to the public.

Most people are on the internet now. The city would get complaints about not being business-friendly if we did not have license renewal available on the internet.

The city made a decision to go with the future and use the internet. To have both methods (paper and internet) would be more expensive than just one or the other.

Even if you come into the city offices, you still must renew via the internet. The people at the office simply have you go to a computer in the office area to renew.

Your aunt and uncle would definately not have to come to Ogden to renew their business license. However, they may need to come for the Good Landlord classes. I think that is what you are referring to.

Mr. SafstenWhy does my aunt and uncle who live in ...

2007-01-16T13:15:00.000-07:00

Mr. Safsten

Why does my aunt and uncle who live in Reno have to come to Ogden to get their new land lord license for my grandmother's house in Ogden that they now rent out?

They are not on the internet and that seems to be the only option they have other than driving over 800 miles round trip to pay the city the licence fee.

It is my understanding that all business licences are the same. If you are not on the internet then you have to come in person to renew. Why can't the city just send them a renewal notice like every other city and county does?

Do you call this small business friendly? I certainly don't.

City Council Legislative Priorities:Front page sto...

2007-01-16T08:17:00.000-07:00

City Council Legislative Priorities:

Front page story in the SE this morning, here on the City Council's legislative priorities [i.e. instructions to the city lobbiest in SLC.] Some seem good ideas to me, some not, and some I don't know enough about [yet] to have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Good: insuring increased funding for transportation, including a downtown Ogden interchange on I-15, and prohibiting "predatory" lending by pay-day loan businesses. Not good: restoring some eminent domain authority to cities wanting to assemble land packages for private development. Not sure about: opposing elimination of the remainder of food tax because it could/would seriously damage the city's operating revenues; asking for subsidy to move the St. Anne's Center to a 12th Street location away from downtown.

I notice that so far, as the legislators descend on SLC in a feeding frenzy to spend out every last penny of the huge surplus this year, that nobody is proposing shunting a significant portion of it into a "rainy day fund." Many state legislatures establish these in good times because they understand that the good times do not always roll, that the business cycle is... well, cyclical... and that down the road when the economy dips, state revues will dip, creating a huge problem of maintaining funding for state services. Money banked [at interest] during boom times in a "rainy day fund" can then be drawn on when the ecnomy dips to maintain funding and public services at existing levels. Including schools. It eliminate the endless cycle of boom/bust in state revenues, or at leat mitigates it. All these legislators who like, on the campaign trail, to talk about fiscal responsibility, and about how the government should run its finances like every family should... paying its bills, not spending more than it has, etc.... somehow often leave saving for a rainy day out of the equation when it comes to spending state revenues in boom times.

Has anyone heard any of our legislative leaders, those paragons of fiscal responsibility, talk about saving some of the huge surplus against the eventual, and inevitable economic downturn and inevitable drop in state revenues? I haven't. I'd be happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong about it.

To "Observers,"I cannot gives the names of the spe...

2007-01-16T06:57:00.000-07:00

To "Observers,"

I cannot gives the names of the specific small businesses or people assisted at the B.I.C, but please don't take that as a dodge to your question. The council hears budget reports from the BIC regarding the numbers and $$$ amounts of business loans taken. Our reports show the numbers of people coming through their doors to receive consulting for their businesses. I have heard the names of some of the businesses, but only anecdotally in the course of receiving the reports.

The specific things that have been done to reduce crime implemented by the city include:
#1) Increasing the number of police officers.
#2) The "Weed & Seed" program is a program in Central Ogden to both fight the incidence of crime through neighborhood involvement and also to reduce future potential crime by attacking some of the root problems in those neighborhoods.
#3) Community Police Officers have been effective to make contact with the neighborhoods.
#4) The Police have new equipment including GIS and High Tech Fingerprinting machines which are very valuable in helping them do their work.

There is too much crime in Ogden, obviously, but the statistics have shown general reductions in criminal activity for several years.

It would help if the state would stop creating more and more halfway houses in Ogden (ironically, they are usually clustered near each other in order to generate maximum criminal interface capability) dumping criminals into our city creating that much more oversight responsibility for our police force. There are other problems too, but that is one that comes to mind this morning.

It is unfortunate if tax incentives for businesses are viewed as an "either/or" proposition, but what would you suggest as incentives to the German company, for example, to have them come to Ogden instead of China or North Carolina? I don't mean my comment to be cynical--it is a very real question we must deal with.

None of the things I am talking about are partisan issues. One of the beauties of city government is that partisanship really has no place--it is irrelevant. I honestly know very little about the political party affiliation of the other members of the council and it is sort of nice that way. We can address the issues and not worry too much about political party politics.

Mr Safsten,Please enumerate some of those small bu...

2007-01-15T17:58:00.000-07:00

Mr Safsten,

Please enumerate some of those small businesses that you mention. Also, you are correct that business NEED a low crime atmosphere.

What is this administration and police dept doing to ensure that we citizens can move about safely in Ogden?

Please be specific. I don't think we look at tax incentives and a large work force as an 'either/or' proposition...and this certainly should not be painted as a pro republican issue. Nonsense.

Curm, With the massive building and infrastructure...

2007-01-15T10:09:00.000-07:00

Curm,

With the massive building and infrastructure needs, let alone low wages, textbooks, etc..at the public schools, I am dissappointed at the short-sightedness of our legislature regarding the budget proposals I have seen thus far.

Councilman Safsten: OK. My bad. I read over "go...

2007-01-15T09:12:00.000-07:00

Councilman Safsten:

OK. My bad. I read over "good schools" in the list. I should have gone back and re-read the post ebefore responding. The wages of haste is error. Happy though that you'd not object to making it "strong public schools." Now I wish we could, somehow, get our state legislators to embrace the same idea [strong public schools foster economic prosperity] when they actually take their seats and vote instead of only on the campaign trail....

The B.I.C. is the Business Information Center. I...

2007-01-15T09:08:00.000-07:00

The B.I.C. is the Business Information Center. It is a partnership between Ogden City and HUD (Housing Urban Development). Don't take my word about its success in working with small businesses in Ogden. Somebody take a look at its very open books and look at the numbers. It is doing a good job.

In response...I did mention "strong schools" in my...

2007-01-15T09:06:00.000-07:00

In response...

I did mention "strong schools" in my list of things needed to keep small (and large businesses). I would be more than willing to amend that to "strong PUBLIC schools."

I don't understand people scoffing at the importance of a "strong tax base." Strong tax bases mean people have jobs, have good public schools, pay their police/fire departments, etc...

Why would you want a weak tax base? Please explain that to me.

Anon: TY

2007-01-15T08:56:00.000-07:00

Anon: TY

Business information center

2007-01-15T08:55:00.000-07:00

Business information center

Councilman Safsten: Thanks for the info on small...

2007-01-15T08:27:00.000-07:00

Councilman Safsten:

Thanks for the info on small business incentive programs in Ogden via the B.I.C. One query: what is the B.I.C.? Not familiar with the abbreviation.

To your list of things small businesses need to survive [and to find a community an attrictive one in which to open, relocate or stay], I'd add one element: strong public schools. A well-educated workforce [at all levels] generally drives the economy up via higher earnings [and so more money to spend]. Strong public schools also work as a draw for larger companies. I know from experience in another state [I've seen the correspondence] of a much-desired high-tec firm that was actively recruited to move in, the management had indicated they intended to move in, then backed out because, their letter said "our skill people will not move to XXX because of the low quality of the schools there. And if our skill people won't make the move, neither can the company."

I wish [not just in Ogden, but in Utah overall] public officials understood much better than they seem to the connection between strong public schools, quality education at every level, and economic prosperity.

Thanks again for the posting, Mr. Safsten and the information about small business incentives in Ogden.

100 million dollar budget per-year isn't enough mo...

2007-01-15T07:47:00.000-07:00

100 million dollar budget per-year isn't enough money for Rick and Mayor Godfrey to hand out to their buddies.

Stop picking on them!

Give me a break, you nailed it. The Republicans li...

2007-01-15T07:42:00.000-07:00

Give me a break, you nailed it. The Republicans like to use that arguement of a tax base, because they can use your hard earned tax money to give to their rich buddies to squeeze the honest businesses out of business; and funnel your tax money into their never ending campaigns.

Hey Rick and all you republicans, your Robin Hood ...

2007-01-15T07:34:00.000-07:00

Hey Rick and all you republicans, your Robin Hood in reverse. Take from the poor and give to the rich.
Its a good thing your all so educated and noble. "Because we need a tax base".

GIVE ME A BREAK