Well here it is folks, our archived "short list" of the 2007 Emerald City Mayoral and Council candidates who managed to get their filings completed prior to yesterday's 5:00 p.m. deadline. In terms of name recognition they run the gamut, from a two-term mayor (Boss Godfrey,) a five-term State House Representative (Hansen,) three sitting incumbent council-members (Stephenson, Van Hooser & Wicks,) a prominent Ogden firefighter (Youngberg,) a perennial candidate (Thompson) to various others whom it's probably fair to politely characterise as "lesser-knowns."It's an equal-opportunity playing field here in Emerald City at this point in time however; and in the next eight weeks (the municipal primary falls on September 11, 2007) we're sure each of these candidates will devote ample effort to speak up and show us exactly what they're made of.
For a slightly more fleshed-out overview of the field of candidates, don't forget to read up on this morning's two Standard-Examiner articles:
Five vie for Ogden Mayor
Godfrey has four challengers
And now that the 2007 municipal campaign is officially underway, we suppose it's fair to begin a discussion of these candidates, their past achievements and qualifications for office, here on our little backwater community blog.
Before we open the floor however, we'd like to issue a short admonition. Although our regular readers are invariably gentle and well-behaved, we realize that a number of trolls and "Godfreyite" lurkers regularly prowl this blog. For those who may consider the opening of a discussion of these candidates to be an invitation to "flaming," we suggest such readers to carefully read and understand our posting policy. During the next eight weeks, these rules will be strictly enforced. If we demonstrate a bias at all in the application of this policy, it will be toward the direction of civility. And as one reader has already suggested, we intend to come down hard on "poorly-founded allegations and accusations."
As we approach the primary election, we'd like to foster the highest possible level of civil discourse. That isn't to imply that we'll ban "negativity." In the case of at least one incumbent candidate, we know negativity is clearly warranted on the facts.
Even in that connection, however, we hope all our readers will remember our constant motto:
This board is for grown-ups.
Don't let the cat get your tongues.
112 comments:
Bravo to your reinstated posting policy! But I think that rather than admonishing negativity, you ought to restrict your censorship to unfounded prevarications and accusations. "Negativity" is entirely relative.
I also think you ought to institute a word-count limit on posts. Some of the fine folks here are so unnecessarily verbose in making thier point(s), that I can barely wade through it. My English comp. professor always found this to be one of the greatest sins in writing and I truly believe it to be the case.
Did anyone go to Susan Van Hooser's candidacy announcement? Did she sound like a winner? Did she sound realistic?
Yes for choice!!! Yes for Democracy!!!
In the interest of conserving front page space, we saved this for our comments section. We link a little information (we think) about Municipal Ward 4 candidate Jim Freed.
We highlighted a letter to the Std-Ex editors with the signature of one James Freed within an article a little over a year ago, whilst discussing the subject of "push polling."
We assume this is the same fellow, keeping in mind what our teacher taught us about making "assumptions."
And I want to agree and commend our block meister here for taking the steps to govern this blog in a civil manner. This blog has some strong biases noted through the many months towards the Mayor and others. It would be great to get valuable information, good or bad, so that we can make informed, educated and mature decisions. I think we all agree that this election is vital and important in many ways for the future of Ogden and our community. The right decision is necessary and good information will help all of us make that decision. Thanks again for this great forum to get in deeper on subjects and explore from all angles. I agree, yes for choice!
Thanks for the post, native.
We've updated our article to incorporate your suggestion re censorship to include "unfounded prevarications and accusations,", and clarified our policy re "negativity," which we'd clumsily expressed using a "double negative."
The reporting is pretty thin stuff, all in all.
It's a pity Stephenson is unopposed. I wonder why his opponent was so suddenly appointed to that city position, and then dropped out of the race. It sounds fishy to me.
It looks like there's a crowd vying for Amy's job. That Amy, a good candidate, has challengers, and Stephenson, a bad one, has none, is appaling.
It will be nice to find out which are the Godfreyites. I've heard tell from several people that Kent Peterson [deleted by administrator] is a Godfreyite. (That’s what I’ve really heard from multiple individuals; it’s not unfounded.) I wonder who the others Godfreyites are. Freed’s letter sounds like he could be a lot better than Saftsen was in this seat. In Susie’s seat, I’ve heard some good comments about those candidates.
Hopefully there will be decent council candidates to vote for in each race. Personally, I don’t bother voting if I have no decent choices. I believe others are the same – especially true in local races.
So if you are a good candidate, DIFFERENTIATE YOURSELF, and cut the generic, meaningless mom and apple pie crap. Everyone says they want to “improve” this and that, and have a “great” city. The question is HOW?? Say what you think about preserving open space, about debt, and about the proper role of government.
Otherwise, people will end up voting for the one with the most and prettiest yard signs, if they’re among the few who vote in city races at all.
Be bold, and say what you think. Spare us the feel good blah blah. Better yet, post a comment or two here.
And if you are a good candidate, thanks for running. If you are a Godfreyite, may you die a thousand painful deaths (electorally speaking, of course.)
Danny-
Good for you to qualify your statements and cite (anonymous) sources. I will take your word, that KENT PETERSON is supported by Godfrey. However, additional evidence will need to be collected, and we ought to be able to hear from KENT PETERSON himself.
Does anyone have corroborating evidence that KENT PETERSON is a member of the Godfrey cabal? So far we have this:
KENT PETERSON = GODFREY
As long as you're censoring "unfounded and prevaricous accusations," I hope you apply your swordsmanship to those who perpetuate the same on Mayor Godfrey, and those who have been "joined at the hip" to him by your "unbiased" blogsters.
Question: I was under the impression that City Employees could not run for office, as there could be a conflict of interest if elected (Dirk the Firefighter and if he makes Council he'll vote for wages, etc.). Has Dirk resigned or am I wrong?
There are some highly qualified candidates running, especially on Royal Eccles who should give Wicks a run for her money. He does not suffer fools, is well respected in his neighborhood, the business community, and the city at large and would be a tremendous asset to the Council and Ogden as he has NO biases and will vote the issue, not the petitioner as Wicks so often does.
Godfrey has his hands full, especially with VanHoosen; Brandon wins in a walk; and Kent Peterson, no Godfrey lackey, is brilliant.
Might be quite a race this year, with bias and prejudice taking a back seat to the reality of who best can do the job for the people.
Rudi, my proxy tongue (finger) hurts from having to bite so hard restaining myself, whilst attempting to momentarily crawl into Curmugeons' brain for guidence in civil restraint phrasiology. Couldn't do it.
If any one truely cares about a healthy, better Ogden, you damn well better not cast a vote for the following Kool-aid drinking, blinded by charletan greed motivated visions (psychotic hallucinations $$$$) candidates. Kent Peterson, royal eccles(pathetic gondola worshiper) Kevin Irons and Blaine Johnson, these are lying little matty's hopefull. There may be more, we'll be attempting to weed them out and expose there true nature as this progresses. Oh and for Mayor? A pet rock, a 2 pound block of cheeze, anything but the lying little decietfull thing occupying the cuurent position.
"I hope you apply your swordsmanship to those who perpetuate the same on Mayor Godfrey, and those who have been "joined at the hip" to him by your "unbiased" blogsters."
[yawn]
Also please take note that we've further altered our cautionary language to the phrase: "poorly-founded allegations and accusations."
Thanks for your concern.
We'll continue to further tweak and fine-tune our policy until everybody gets into the groove...
which is something that inevitably happens here.
forecaster-
Are you suggesting that Godfrey is NOT a duplicitious, conniving, backhanded, bait-and-switch politician? I think this has been well-established.
I'm not sure you fully grasp what Godfrey has done to this community. There are few things more dear to a community than it's public lands. Public lands which consist of trails, parks, golf courses, etc. And Godfrey has the GALL to propose selling off a considerable portion of this irreplacable community asset to a developer (in training) to fund additional development. And in return we get this gondola system of highly questionable value in terms of utility and long-term expense.
No, I'm sorry Mr. forecaster, your efforts to insulate your Godfrey-sympathizing candidates from Godfrey will be exposed.
Based on the great Bill C's observations, it looks like, as I predicted, the Godfreyites have one of their own in every race.
Surprise, surprise.
And forecaster, note above that the blogmiester deleted something from MY very post. (If this is the Kent Peterson from Peterson Motors, I leave it to those who've dealt with him to pass along their experiences regarding his character, good or bad.)
Hey forcaster, We can truely gage lying little matty's lack of support by taking note of how far down into the barrel he's had to dip to come up with candidates. Kent Peterson? royal eccles (barfff) gag me witha spoon.
Forecaster:
With respect to Mr. Eccles, you wrote that he "has NO biases."
Not exactly sure what you mean by "biases." Often, what people mean when they accuse someone of being biased is that the someone disagrees with them. I suspect that may be what you mean as well... that Ms. Wicks voted on some matters differently than you wished, and that you think Mr. Eccles would have voted more to your liking and will in the future.
Nothing wrong with that. That's why most of us vote for or against particular candidates. But it does not make Mr. Eccles [with whom I am unfamiliar] a man of "NO biases."
Going to be an interesting set of races.
Eccles is an in-your-face, shameful gondola proponent, ala the Geigers; Irons is a Godfreyite; Peterson threw away over $1 million to Wayne Ogden, and is supposed to be "brilliant." Good polling, Forecaster.
Squirrel Patrol Alert! Squirrel Patrol Alert! The following are members of Wayne Peterson's famed Squirrel Patrol (Nuts! Get 'em!):
Eccles, Irons, Peterson, Johnson.
Also: "Brandon" wins in a walk because he's unopposed, Squirrel Patroler, errrr, Forecaster; god, you're brilliant.
Word is, lying little matty (gondola stiil) godfrey has ammassed quite a treasure chest from strong armed solicitation practices used on those that have benefitted most from his time in office. About $120,000, this from the likes of Boyer Corp, Mel Kemp and Gary Neilson, hey, that's our money!!!!
In the last primary, a bit more than 6000 voters participated. Working on a number somewhere between 6 and 7 thousand this go round, the only conceivable stratagy for you and Bernie to apply,(pinnoccio) to get through the primary would be to find these voters and give them each $20 and pray that will buy their allegience. Just trying to help out in a very unbiassed fashion.
I also encourage all other candidates to call upon this list of Ogden City benefactors, to recieve thier rightfull cut.
forecaster:
Apparently it is acceptable to prevaricate when one makes posative and supportive statements RE a candidate - as your post would seem to indicate.
As for Royal, in addressing the OCC
about traffic problems on Taylor Av. fronting Mt. Ogden Park, Royals solution was to move the soccor players (they draw a crowd) to some other park. Sounds a bit self-serving, i.e., "Godfreyesque" to me. He might even sound like an open space fan if it weren't for the Lift Ogden sign he once displayed on his front lawn.
Old Patroller:
You wrote: As for Royal, in addressing the OCC
about traffic problems on Taylor Av. fronting Mt. Ogden Park, Royals solution was to move the soccor players (they draw a crowd) to some other park. Sounds a bit self-serving.
Sorry, but I don't see why that suggestion would be "self serving" for Mr. Eccles. Why would he gain by having the soccer games moved elsewhere?
Ok, now for a preliminary official nod of approval for the following candidates.(the based on the initial investigation, these represent truely civic minded folks,( with no known ties to lying little matty) Jim Freed, Catlin Gochnour, Dirk Youngberg, Sheila Ardema and of course, the whole cities favorate incumbant, The ever stalwart peoples representative Amy Wicks.
Note, It's as Danny says, Thier duty to express themselves and positions from now till the election. We'll continue our investigative endevers and keep you posted.
Does anyone know what the Municipal Ward boundaries are? The last time I went looking that (and the school board boundaries) were apparently not online.
If Kent Peterson lost $1M on Wayne Ogden, which if memory serves ran a Ponzi that collected $5M from 500 people, I guess Kent was the big spender in the room!
Are we positive this is the same guy as the car dealer? It seems like it could be a common name.
If it is the same guy, his loss of that much money would seem consistent with being a Godfreyite, i.e. somebody who leaps before he looks, blowing lots of money in the process.
asque-
Here is a not-so-clear map, but it was the best that I could find this morning as I was searching around.
Ogden Muni Map
What is up w/ the north side of Ogden not putting up any contenders? Come on north side, get w/ it (re: Stephenson). I guess that begs the question, will Stephenson still be Godfrey's mouthpiece once Hizzonah is elected out of office?
Jill:
Well, there was one announced candidate, but she got appointed to a board or committee, and took herself out of the race.
I don't know, Jill, I'm just guessing but from people I've talked to, there is, among a lot of folks who would make good candidates and, I suspect, good Council members, a great reluctance to subject themselves to the kind of mud-slinging, slanderous whispering campaigns, and such like, that seem to be de rigeur [sp?] in American political campaigns these days. It just gets so damn unpleasant they're not willing to put themselves through it.
That's part of the story at least, I suspect. Can't say I blame them, though I would truly have liked at least on credible candidate to run against Mr. Stephenson. It is not good for people, particularly long time incumbents, to be re-elected unopposed. It's not healthy for the city. When that happens, the unopposed incumbents have to take no stands, they have to, really, not stand up to public scrutiny at all.
Unfortunate.
Jill,
Thanks for the map.
How many of you can say write in campaign. Is there any one that is up to really taking this idea on.
curm I have to agree whole hearted with you. I was one who considered running for a council seat and after careful reflection decided the negatives out weighed potential positive.
Of course I'm sure I'm not the only one that came to that same conclusion.
You might consider when you are insulting people on this site whether a person agrees or disagrees with you, you might be preventing someone good from pursuing public office.
I understand, it just comes with the territory....and thats too bad.
One little post has really stirred up many on this blog. Poster b calls Roayl Eccles an "in your face" guy, when in fact Royal is a gentleman. He's well spoken, civic minded and has made many a fine presentation before the Council regarding Ogden's airport business. Comes from a fine family and is a good businessman, but polster b knows better, even to the point of calling Eccles "shameful." Polster b, you know not of what you write.
Little Jason Wood, much in need of doing push ups before he sinks into his name calling of Godfrey (the pot calling the kettle black), got all lathered up because of my lack of repeating why Brandon wins in a walk. Anyone who read today's Standard knows Stephenson's unopposed, so why repeat a redundency (it would be like the last several paragraphs of ANY story involving Chris Peterson and the gondola-they all ended by going over and over the Peterson plan about buying MOGC, building houses, financing the mountain gondola, etc., etc., etc. Hell, who didn't know that and why keep repeating it?) Chill out a little, young Jason, and don't be so quick to cast stones at a mere observation.
Old Patroller--Eccles is self serving because he suggested moving some soccer games to anoth park in order to stem a horrible traffic problem on Taylor? Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is just PLAIN STUPID!
Oh Danny Boy, oh Danny Boy--you make quite the leap when you claim that if Peterson lost $1,000,000 to Wayne Ogden it makes him a Godfreyite. Danny, read and listen carefully: were you there, with Wayne and Kent? If not, how can you make such an accusation and if he did drop a mil, how does that make him a Godfreyite? Idiotic logic on your part, pal. Glad you not running and we're not tying our future to you.
And Bill the Golfer C, of North Ogden, his continuous public fawning over Amy Wicks suggests that Godfrey uses "strong arm" tactics to amass a treasure chest of funds. Again, were ya there, Billy Boy? How do you know this? You'd be better served to keep shooting golf, on our nickle, while the big boys play this thing out.
All of this from one little old post, wherein I basically just threw out my thoughts on a few of the candidates. Wonder how this blog will read is my forecasts come true?
One post script: Kent Peterson is the car/boat dealer Kent Peterson. So what. At least he's willing to serve, which is a hell of alot more than most of you complaining blogsters are willing to do.
Curmudgeon (after a favorite beer)
Mr. Eccles regulary transverses Taylor Av. as do many of us and he is doubtless bothered by the congestion and safety problems as many of us are. However, soccor is certainly a popular and nicely adapted use for the park - the traffic situation notwithstanding. Now, eliminating this use though expedient runs counter to what the park is all about. Encourage use of the under-utilized available parking lot is a better solution.
Perhaps self-serving is a stretch but I assume you don't know Royal.
Godfreyesque must stand however -the most direct solution regardless of its impact on others. I will attempt to be more concise in any future posts if you will agree to be less temporizing.
forecaster;
If your name isn't Bobby it certainly could be. As for stupid, it as an apt description of your statements RE all of the posts that you don't agree with. Any defender of the mayor easily qualifies as "stupid".
Forecaster:
Simple assertions that someone is a person of high character don't really tell us much. Every candidate's advocates say that of him or her. What I expect of candidates looking for my vote --- or from their supporters --- is specifics to back up assertions like "lack of bias" or "good judgment" or "good character." And yes, I expect the same of those who advocate the election of one of his opponents in the race.
One thing, though: you say he is from "a fine family." I wouldn't dream of challenging that assertion, but I would like to point out that it seems to me irrelevant with respect to his qualifications for office. I don't care if a candidate can trace his [or her] ancestry back to the Mayflower [or The People's emergence from the lower world for that matter], or the candidate is the grandchild of two unmarried hippies who slipped across the border from Canada half a century ago. I'm interested in the candidate, what he or she has accomplished, evidence of his or her character [and sense of honor] and understanding, and what he or she thinks about Ogden's future and problems and how best to improve life in the city. All else is campaign clutter IMHO.
Though I'll agree with you that some attempts to attack candidates via guilt by association can get --- have gotten --- pretty far fetched.
forecaster:
You might not appreciate (hell, you may even get your panties in the proverbial bunch) over how the individuals you name take the candidates to task. However, if candidates throw their hats in the ring, they should expect their histories, political ideologies, and characters to be questioned as it relates to what they may support/oppose as elected officials.
Was Royal Eccles an ardent supporter of the gondola? Yes. Did Mr. Peterson get bilked for a cool mil by Wayne Ogden? I don’t know. Is it a question that voters should consider germane to his qualification to handle public money? In my opinion, yes. Did Mr. Peterson also support the gondola non-proposal? That’s the word on the street.
In judging any candidate in the upcoming election, I will use solely one criteria in determining for whom to cast a vote. Do they now, or have they ever, supported Mayor Godfrey’s policies and tactics. If so, into the bung pile they go–face first.
By the, way, forecaster, you’re convoluted sentence structure leads me to believe I know your identity. But, rather than accuse you of being a well-known blusterer on this blog, I’ll refrain, given that I could be wrong and wouldn’t want to insult you.
Good god, that post was so fair and balanced, Curm could have written it. Nope, not enough double negatives.
Ugly:
Cad! Cur! Running dog of negativism! I don't never use double negatives!
Mr. Forecaster (Geiger?)-
Thanks for clearing things up for us. As it stands:
PRO-GODFREY, PRO-GONDOLA:
----------------------
ROYAL ECCLES (SEAT C)
KEVIN IRONS (SEAT C)
KENT PETERSON (WARD 4)
BLAINE JOHNSON (SEAT A)
MATTHEW GODFREY (MAYOR)
ANTI-GODFREY, ANTI-GONDOLA:
----------------------
AMY WICKS (SEAT C)
JAMES FREED (WARD 4)
CAITLIN GOCHNOUR (WARD 4)
DIRK YOUNGBERG (SEAT A)
SHEILA AARDEMA (SEAT A)
SUSAN VAN HOOSER (MAYOR)
NEIL HANSEN (MAYOR)
If you have any suggestions regarding the merits of any of the above individuals to reside in one category or another, or if any individuals not mentioned above and are running deserve to be placed in one categor or the other, please advise.
Also, please pardon me for being so categorical. But I'm still mystified by the lack of ability of the Godfrey Gondolists to grasp just how fundamentally divisive, distracting, and truly upsetting this proposal to sell off our public lands has been (and will continue to be). Not just that, but to indebt us for questionable returns on a gondola of dubious utility. This is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE and is what will DECIDE the election.
Forcaster, you couldn't possibly have thought you'd get in good standing in these parts with comments like that?
Where to start, individuals? I'll only comment on your one crtique you directed at my personal candidates. Take a poll dude, Amy is definitely the most admired and respected incumbant running for the Council. She has been there and has established a very decent record of voicing and protecting the peoples concerns. Very impressive and she had to do it on a fast track learning curve ascending to a position of leadership. Most Impressive. Care to argue?
As for all the others, allow me to point out one,very real aspect of this whole campain, one no BIG BOYS would overlook. THIS ELECTION IS A PUBLIC UP OR DOWN VOTE OF CONFIDENCE ON TRUELY ONE PERSON. Any candidate foolish enough to lock arms with lying little matty(gondola still) will find themselves,as the astute UGLY BEAVER so properly phrased it, landing face first in a bung pile.
Good Day
Bilked out of millions; word on the street; take a poll, DUDE!
OK, DUDE, it's laughable that you guys are so damned incensed about all of this and it's only Filing Day + 1. My goodness, DUDES (we should all be living in the SF Valley, doing lunch, eh DUDES), by the time the elections get here you will have worked yourselves into such a frenzy that you might not be able to find your polling place in order to cast your votes.
And as for Amy. She's a fine person but her proclivity to constantly vote against the Mayor, regardless of whether or not the proposal has Ogden's best interests in it or not (i.e. Jesse and Jeske), leaves much to be desired as many positives are often overlooked due to anti-Godfrey bias or Godfrey prejudice.
And Curm, I agree, just being a member of a certain family is not a qualifier. However, when one has had that exposure that a family such as Eccles provides, and is accomplished like Royal is himself, the combination is a definite asset and would go a long way in ensuring a quality office holder.
We'd do well to remember that we're writing on a blog rather than formalizing a dissertation. The shallowness comes from those who'se only rythm and or reason is simply a dislike of Godfrey, rather than a factual knowledge of the issues.
Dude.
Before Schweke's morning article breaks, sure to give lying little matty another headline, you heard it first here.WCF.
New group of anti gang ordinances was passed tonite. I'll let Scotty give you the details, my comment is, why has it taken 7 years of this administrations time, to get around to a problem thats been with us for more than 2 decades? Don't read me wrong, I am all for cracking down on all these hoodlums, but the big show, just before the primary and after ONE near fatal shooting? We've been used to both reading and hearing about drive by shootings throughout this mayors 7 years in office, (many don't make the paper) and this gang problem though almost entirely directed at hispanics tonite, is wide spread and all major groups have representation. I'll point that out because we also were informed tonite that this administration has returned to some of their old tricks, apparently spreading rumors and implicating Chairman Garcia as part of the problem. SAY WHAT ? This pack of rats is unconscionable, this gang problem should have been delt with in a stronger fashion years ago, before the mall was torn down. The only thing thats been lacking was the will and police resources. May just be buildings and RDAs have been a larger priority. Oh, and lest we forget GONDOLAS and THE THEFT OF PUBLIC LANDS.
Forcaster, name one issue, with your accompaning rational where Ms. Wicks was wrongfully just opposing the mayor. And please, do bring us up to speed on the ISSUES as you define them.
We don't do lunch, hate the San Fernando Valley and have known royal eccles longer than you've been alive, good enough?
forecaster:
Dude?
bbaaafuggginnnwhhaaaaaaat?
Forcaster, one last thing before I forget. Don't be concerned for fear we'll run out of steam, filing day really wasn't the starting line. You should have learned a thing or two during the last couple years of the gondola wars, by threatening our public lands and golf course, lying little matty made this personal to most people in Ogden, now it's personal it's impossible to get tired or complaisant. As for knowing the issues and facts, I again will refer you to the gondola wars, we did well enough to convince lying little matty, he did come over to our way of thinking, didn't he? I read that in the paper.
So now that it has been spoken publicly, just what has Royal Eccles accomplished on his own?
Is he from the "successful" Eccles branch, or the "not so successful one"? Regardless, I am with Curmudgeon on this, what difference does it make what family he came from?
The last time voters in Ogden elected someone because of their family name it was Glassman, and we all know how incompetent, and what an embarrassment, he turned out to be.
I do think Eccles' own accomplishments are pertinent however.
On the Wayne Ogden connection: As I recall Mr. Ogden used the age old shill game of appealing to his victims own greed and avarice to fleece them. If Mr. Peterson was indeed taken down by a million or so by Ogden, then it might say something about his intelligence, judgement and business ethics. Maybe, maybe not, the devil is in the details. In general it seems that Peterson Marine has a good reputation, no?
And finally, I think if you checked Amy Wick's voting record you will find that she does not automaticaly vote against the mayor on every issue. This seems like an untrue and unfair attempt to portray her as a mindless naysayaer, which is not true at all.
forecaster-
OMG, what a freaking moron you are. But please do come back tomorrow so we can furthur abuse your idiocracy and ineptitude. Although you mostly appear to be talking to your walls, it does give us the opportunity to clarify.
PRO-GODFREY, PRO-GONDOLA:
----------------------
ROYAL ECCLES (SEAT C)
KEVIN IRONS (SEAT C)
KENT PETERSON (WARD 4)
BLAINE JOHNSON (SEAT A)
MATTHEW GODFREY (MAYOR)
ANTI-GODFREY, ANTI-GONDOLA:
----------------------
AMY WICKS (SEAT C)
JAMES FREED (WARD 4)
CAITLIN GOCHNOUR (WARD 4)
DIRK YOUNGBERG (SEAT A)
SHEILA AARDEMA (SEAT A)
SUSAN VAN HOOSER (MAYOR)
NEIL HANSEN (MAYOR)
Godfrey of in incapable of mending fences!
I am not sure if anyone knows this little tidbit or not, but Mr. Patterson invited the Firefighter Union Reps over to his office to "mend the fence". While discussing ways that the Firefighters could show a sign of good faith, and endorse the Gondola, the administration was in the process of having Senator Jenkins sponsor a bill to eliminate the Civil Service Commission, also having their paid lobbyist, which is (GOVERNMENT WASTE) push the bill through the legislature. (This was a knife in the backs of the Cops and Firefighter). Sadly the bill passed. Because of (Rep Neil Hansen) speaking out to the press went to bat for us Cops and Firefighters. The city council, thank God, refused to abolish the commission, which would have been a bad thing for Police and Firefighters in Ogden, placing them into an at-will employee’s status. I am pretty sure that if the Mayor gets re-elected he will push to abolish the commission again with the new council.
I am just saying people need to be very cognizant of the placement of the hands of the present administration when they are reaching out to mend fences. It's hard to trust someone when they have a track record of not so forthright maneuvering.
So if you support those of us, who risk our lives to serve and protect. Rep Neil Hansen, from what I’ve seen of him, has the vision, experience, dedication to revitalize Ogden in the most cost effective way! The true winners will be the people of Ogden.
I am glad to see that the election season has started for our fair city. It brings joy to my heart that I can review all of these candidates and ponder the pros & cons they bring to this race. Being that this is so early in the race, one cannot have all the facts to choose who to support. Well that’s not entirely true, I would dare say that there is one person who all of the employees of Ogden would support without question………ANYONE BUT GODFREY!
It’s time for Lord Farquadd to exit stage left and let us get on with doing what is right for this city. Let the personal favors, to selected friends, be something that we speak of in the past tense when talking of mayoral politics. Let the secretive meetings and the “I know better than you” attitude be sent packing. Let’s have a mayor that has better things to do other than following police officer’s wives. We have had enough foul play and unethical behavior for the past 8 years.
With that being said, I wish everyone else in the mayoral race good luck.
Forecaster:
You wrote of Councilwoman Wicks: her proclivity to constantly vote against the Mayor, regardless of whether or not the proposal has Ogden's best interests in it or not.
Well, I think you'd have a hard time establishing on the record that Ms. Wicks is a knee-jerk opponent of Administration proposals because they are administrative proposals. If you go back and actually look at her voting record, you'll find a lot of matters on which she voted in the majority in favor of administrative proposals [particularly, for example, various matters involving the Junction development]. But on other matters as well. Clearly, you did not agree with some of her votes against administrative proposals, but the mere fact that she disagreed with you on several issues does not mean she voted against the public interest. I suspect on such matters I could just as easily claim that the vote you preferred would have been not in the public interest.
Native's list above,dividing all the candidates into simple "pro godnola, pro Godfrey" or "anti gondola, anti-Godfrey" camps can't I think, be sustained on the evidence. Perhaps the gondola part can, but not the rest. I think it's a vast over-simplification and wildly inaccurate to claim of any of the Council members [with one exception] that they and their voting record can be described that simply. And, sadly, in your comments on Ms. Wicks, you fall I think into the same kind of over-simplification.
You never mention the gondola/gondola land sale to the Mayor's crony scheme specifically, but if that was one of the issues on which you think Ms. Wicks took a stand against the public interest, I remind you that Hizzonah, Mayor Godfrey, has now gone on record as saying the whole scheme was not feasible from the git go. He has joined the naysayers, it seems.
I don't want knee-jerk anti-Godfrey Council members; nor do I want knee-jerk Godfrey sycophants. I want Council members who (a) understand the oversight function of the Council in a Mayor/Council form of government (b) take every recommendation from the Administration with some skepticism, and demand that the Administration convince them, on the evidence, that the proposal is in the city's best interest and (c) vote, when the time comes, for those proposals they think the administration can justify on the evidence and against those it cannot. [And before you ask, since it's clear I am not supporting the Mayor's re-election bid, yes, I'd expect the new Council to apply exactly the same standards to the new Mayor, if Godfrey is not re-elected. I wouldn't want them to be one iota less skeptical of new proposals, less diligent in ferreting out the evidence by which to judge them. Not one iota.]
If I found a council member whose record showed they opposed, blindly, every administration proposal, because the administration proposed it, I would not vote for them. None of the sitting Council members have, in my view, blindly voted against administration proposals. None of them.
Here's Schwebke's article on the anti-gang ordinance.
As long as Patterson is speculating on the cause of the Council's alleged delay, I guess I can speculate too. There was some discussion last night about the city attorney's office reviewing the ordinance very carefully to ensure that it won't be overturned in court on constitutional grounds. I don't know when that review took place, but it seems possible that the Council wanted some additional assurance along these lines.
Let's also remember that the administration's number-one priority for most of the last two years (and perhaps longer) has been the gondola/landgrab project. While the Council hasn't invested nearly as much time in this issue as the administration has, the Council has had to spend several work sessions and a great deal of additional time listening to the administration's half-baked proposals and dealing with the resulting outcry.
Oh, and to those who claim that some Council members always vote against the administration: The Council's votes on all three ordinances (as well as another ordinance on an unrelated matter) were unanimous. In fact, based on my experience attending several Council meetings over the last few years, I'd say that the vast majority of Council votes are unanimous.
Blain Johnson, a real estate lawyer, representing developers in commercial transactions.
Also a member of the board of Mayor Godfrey's "Ogden Community Foundation"
Ewwwwww.....
Name one time, Curmuidgeon, where Wicks voted pro-Mayor. Just one, dude.
And then at Garcia and Jeske's records.
Hey forcaster, you never answer my question, what is it, you can't or just refuse to?
Little Bob Geiger (Forecaster):
I don't need to do any pushups because I often complete many strenuous sets of 12-ounce curls. Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey is small in every sense of the word. Plus, he's really short, whereas I am of average height. Ha! Really and sincerely, my hope for you is to have a good day; may your corporate numbers be firmly in the black and may you sell many jackets. Remember, THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
While forcaster is making preparations for addressing the issues, I'd like to expand on my and Dan's point a little.
I'll start by commenting on Patterson's response directed at Chair Garcia. It brought to mind a line from a Bob Dylan tune,"pettiness that plays so rough", this administration is trying to pass the blame for a delay in addressing the problem and at the same time trying to utilize their most favored tactic, CHARACTER ASSASINATION, these remarks by Patterson are clearly unfounded and not objective. Again I must emphasize that the real delay were talking about is not months, but years, many years.
Now I question the mayors and the rest of his administrations previous priority list. Things that have included budget restraints resulting in POLICE CARS SITTING IN STORAGE, bought and paid for, but with no funds available to put officers in them. Instead of adequately funding law enforcement, this money must have been prioritized for spending and massive debt creation due to the desire of one lying little matty's passion to think he's a bigtime developer. All along the problem has been allowed to fester and grow.
Like I said before, this campain is about a 7 year report card of LYING LITTLE MATTY'S(gondola still) GODFREY'S RECORD, which is visable and easy to assess. The ppublic will not be overly swayed by quick election time stratagies, effort to draw attention away from the past.
Forecaster:
On the River Project six-month moratorium, which the administration asked for. And as Dan notes, many votes by the Council have been unanimous. You can not on the evidence establish that Ms. Wicks has voted consistently against administration proposals simply because they are administration proposals.
And if Ms. Wicks --- or any council member --- concluded that a particular proposal was not in the city's best interests, she would be honor-bound to vote against it --- yes, even if you were for it. For your argument to work, you'd have to show that there were administration proposals she knew to be in the public interest, but that she voted against anyway merely because the Godfrey administration supported them. You haven't begun to do that.
You're in danger, Forecaster, of assuming that when Council members vote in a way other than you would have, they must be motivated by bad faith and corrupt purposes. If you start reasoning that way, you'll be falling into the same sad trap as those who assume that any vote for a controversial administrative proposal must have some dark and corrupt motive behind it.
But if you are that sure that Ms. Wicks opposed everything the Godfrey administration was for, here's a deal: If I go through the voting on the council for the last two years, will you donate $50 to the Children's Tree House Museum for every vote I find that Councilwoman Wicks cast in favor of an administration-backed proposal?
forecaster,
As I said above, in my experience the vast majority of City Council votes are unanimous. I should have added that the vast majority are unanimous in favor of whatever is being proposed, and that a large majority of the proposals originate with the administration. Last night's anti-gang ordinances are an example (actually three examples).
Here are some other examples that I can recall off the top of my head: In January, Wicks voted for the temporary moratorium on new developments in the River Project area. I assume that she also voted for the subsequent rezone when the moratorium was lifted. I'm pretty sure that Wicks voted to sell the Bloom's property to Bootjack (later revealed to be Peterson) last December. I'm also pretty sure that Wicks voted in favor of the appointments of all three of our newest planning commissioners: Iain Hueton, Lillie Holman, and Janith Wright. However, Wicks voted against the appointment of Dustin Chapman, along with everyone, I think, but Stephenson.
Unfortunately, the agendas of past meetings on the city's web site indicate only whether each item was approved. To find out who voted how, I guess you have to ask the recorder's office for the full minutes.
On Mr. Patterson's charge:
It seems clear from the SE story that Mr. Patterson is merely speculating... guessing... when he charges that Chairman Garcia deliberately delayed action on gang-control because his son was gang-connected.
People who attack political opponents through their family members, and particularly through their children, and particularly through their troubled children, are despicable.
Forecaster above raised the question of character as a factor to be considered in the coming elections. Mr. Patterson's shameful behavior has indeed raised a question about not only his character, but the Mayor's, for Mr. Patterson is Mayor Godfrey's chief administrative officer.
How will the Mayor respond? Here's how he should respond. If I were Mayor and my chief administrative assistant behaved as shamefully as Mr. Patterson has [and had done it without my knowledge and consent], I would tell him in no uncertain terms that he either will apologize to Mr. Garcia or he will no longer be working for my administration.
It will be interesting to see how Mr. Godfrey handles the matter.
This is I think an example of precisely the kind of slash and burn "feral politics" Mr. Porter was talking about in is excellent op-ed piece a few days ago.
Attacking a political opponent through his troubled child. My god. These are not honorable men.
Forcaster, let me share a small little something I have garnered over the last couple of years, a lesson I learned from personal experience during the gondola wars.
Trying to argue with and persuade the many professors I've met, and come to admire and respect, from our own great WSU, is more than a tall order, it can be done, but you have to be right, and have some real facts to back you up. It also helps greatly if you start out on the right side of an issue.
forecaster,
Unless you're very wealthy, I suggest that you not accept Curm's challenge of donating $50 to a good cause for each time Wicks has voted for an administration proposal.
Do you ever attend Council meetings? Do you have any idea how many items they consider and vote on during the course of a year?
The newspaper covers only a tiny fraction of the Council's agenda--usually the most controversial item of each meeting (if any). Since Dian's passing, this blog has also covered only a tiny fraction. But go back to Dian's notes from Council meetings last year, and you'll see how many votes there really are. In Dian's last set of Council notes I count seven substantive votes taken by the Council (not including approval of minutes or other internal business). Of the seven proposals, six were passed unanimously and the other passed on a 5-2 vote with Wicks voting in the majority.
Go Dan go, I'm afraid that forcaster may be overwhelmed by his oppositions ability to respond factually and promptly to any assurtation he attempts to bring up. I suspect if he returns it will be under a new moniker.
Curm, in light of Porters ill articulated op-ed, though we did grasp the basic theme, what are the odds on him, or lying little matty(gondola still)godfrey, issuing that public rebuke of Patterson's off color ill advised commentary?
I'm sure Godfrey and Patterson discussed what Patterson was going to say to the press before he did. This is a pattern coming from this administration.
It's race-baiting. Godfrey is counting on significant anti-hispanic sentiment as part of his reelection strategy. Godfrey thinks he is the great white saviour who is going to save us from the wave of hispanic people who are ruining our community with thier gangs. That's it.
Which makes me realize that one more effective strategy for ousting Godfrey will be to participate in voter-registration drives within the hispanic community. What a great idea.
Danny S., yes forecaster attends council meetings, but he HATES Wicks, Jesse and Jeske so much that he apparently has closed his eyes and minds to everything good that they do. He can't see that most of the time the council votes 7 - 0. I have seen him jump to a lot of wrong conclusions because of his hatred. And he thinks he knows EVERYTHING about them when he knows NOTHING!! He is a little hot head with a huge nasty mouth that lies as much as the mayor does. If you don't know who he is, his initials are B.G. and he works with "Daddy" in the ski business. (Probably because no one else could stand to work with him! He'd drive all their customers away.) I understand the Marines didn't like him neither, and sent him home early.
Every Council Member, save Mrs. Jeske, voted for the mayor's higher ticket quota and to punish the public servants. Mrs. Jeske is the only one who stood by her convictions and voted against it from the get go. It was not until van-gate, and the public pressure that it brought, that the rest of the council broke from the Godfrey patry line.
Hey Native,
Wasn't it Godfrey who had the "Hispanic Assistant Mayor" a while ago to encourage more hispanics to come to Ogden? Kinda goes against your "Great White Savior" theory dosn't it?
forecaster bob:
One needn't know who voted for what, or why. You, like your mentor, the mayor, can't resist reacting more vociferously than usual against those you fear the most.
We can thereby reason that Amy Wicks is of particular concern for you and the other gondolists. My,my, bobby how readily you tip your hand.
Short deck, had a feeling that was you. We're still awaiting your responses to our questions. The lack of anonymity should not deter anyone equipt with facts, and having full command of all the issues. Bring em on. Please start with mine, then go on to Dan and Curm's.( I was first in line)
I think that we should have an adultry law and then lets see how patterson put up with it. Wasn't he and his sec. that he is now married to that had the fling in the parking lot in west valley city.
One who knows -
About the "Forecaster" posts:
You got the initials right, and you even came close on the Marine Corp thing. But, you got the wrong guy!
The language recognition progam that I fed the "Forecaster" posts into point a strong finger at the other "B.G." as the author. You know, the one that was such a joke in his short tenure on the city council.
If correct, this also explains why the posts are so convoluted, disingenuous and silly.
Don't believe it could be BG ex councilman, even though these last 2 years have made for strange bedfellows, even that BG wouldn't tout royal eccles, nor would he make derogatory comments that blaspheme the great game of GOLF, and those that love it. (one would hope)
I agree with what Dan S. and Curmudgeon have said above.
I found it breathtakingly bad form to see the quotes from Mr. Patterson in this morning's S-E.
Thing is, I think he's a much better person than these quotes reveal. I'm saddened and shocked that he would stoop to such ineffectual and low-end political stunts as this.
Given his close ties to the Mayor, unless and until the Mayor publicly disavows Mr. Patterson's remarks, we have to assume that he was speaking for the Mayor.
People,lighten up some. It's only Ogden City politics, a passion that runs very deep in some.
I doubt the foredaster will turn tail and run due to Dan or Bill C's ability to respond "factually and prompty" to any assurtion(assertion-this is the proper spelling). Fact-based statements such as,"I assume(RiverProject); "Pretty sure (Bootjack); and "I also assume," on the 3 Planning Commissioner nominees votes, well, those "facts" don't instil a great deal of confidence in me in order to take or change a position.
hhhmmmmmmm-
Who are you talking about? Hispanic Assistant Mayor? Is this some ceremonial position created by Godfrey? Please explain.
Here's something else for you to chew on: Dean Martinez. I acknowledge that Mr. Martinez' allegations of racism and white favoritism are simply that- allegations. However, I am suggesting a pattern here. And I am suggesting that Patterson and Godfrey discussed what Patterson would say to SMEAR Garcia before Patterson uttered a word. To me, and to many others, there appears to be a very strong pattern of RACISM on the part of the Godfrey Administration.
We should not tolerate racism in any form in Ogden. We are a diverse community and have always been. I feel that our diversity is a strength that we should build on. I have lived in other culturally and racially diverse places where people have asked me if I'm comfortable with it because, "well, because you're from Utah." But I retort that indeed I'm from Ogden, a diverse town that has historically existed in peace and harmony. I'm proud of this tradition here, and I love this town for what it is.
Godfrey should come out and publicly distance himself from the statements of Patterson. He should not allow people to conclude that Patterson shares his views.
If forcaster is short deck, could polster be his daddy?
polster:
You take me to task for not being 100% sure of some of Wicks's past votes. But these are easily checked by calling the City Recorder's office and getting the minutes. Have at it. If you find that I'm wrong about even one of them, I'll be surprised. If you find that I'm wrong about more than one, I'll donate $50 to your favorite charity.
I stand by my overall assertion that Wicks has voted for administration proposals on many occasions--in fact, the vast majority of the time. I've given plenty of examples that I am 100% sure of: four from last night alone (fresh in my mind), and several from the November meeting that Dian reported on. At this point I think the ball is in your court, or forecaster's, to prove otherwise.
Native:
You wrote: Godfrey should come out and publicly distance himself from the statements of Patterson.
Yes, he should. When Mr. Patterson speaks to the Council, he speaks as an Administration representative. Unless the Mayor distances himself from Patterson's shameful actions, people will conclude, and perhaps not without reason, that he spoke with his boss's approval. Which I sincerely hope he did not.
Here's another link for the poor ill-informed "polster" (sic) just another schmuck who earns instant karma from correcting others' spelling and typing errors on the internet: Dian's Council notes
Dian's 2006 reports are an excellent slice of good council meeting reporting which went on for over a year on this blog before her very untimely death. We'll offer that it's at times like these when we miss gentle Dian the most. (sniff)
"Polster" and some of the other newly board-arrived Godfreyites should invest some effort in doing basic research on the voting record of Councilwoman Amy Wicks, before they continue to repeat the tired "obstructionist" meme.
Read this most excellent series for yourself, if you can read, polster.
Just another helpful hint, polster (and forcaster [sic]) from yer old pal Rudi.
The council it taught and trained to try to always vote together so they "show a unified front." Most of the voting isn't decided in the council meetings, but in the work sessions.
At the meetings the members already know which way an issue will go and vote with the group to show unity as a body. Breaking from the group is less than encouraged. Therefore, I would expect most of the voting to be unanimous, unless a council member is going out of their way to make a statement.
of course:
Which, even if true, which I doubt, it does not make any less false the claim by Forecaster that Ms. Wicks always opposes administration proposals simply because they come from the administration. Nor does it change the fact that, challenged to find "just one time" Ms. Wicks voted for an Administration proposal, Dan and I and others have come up with a number of them.
Forecaster seems to have engaged his mouth [or keypad I guess] before doing his homework. He seems to have let his animus for Ms. Wicks overcome his judgment and so made a claim he can not sustain on the evidence.
There's an old saying he might want to keep in mind in the future:
"Speak in haste; repent at leisure."
Hey short deck, (forcaster) still anxiously awaiting your response to my Question. While I wait I might as well offer another shameless plug for everyones favorite incumbant Council Woman standing for re-election to her post. Amy Wicks is simply the best. And everyone take note that both forcaster and polster have had more than adequate time to answer the simplest of questions, one you'd have thought they could answer immediately, based on their initial statements. I guess Bernies tennants were overwhelmed by so much walk in retail business today they just had no time to respond. YEA.
of course:
I think you over-state it, but you're right that a lot of the important deliberation takes place in work sessions, and in other settings such as leadership meetings and discussions among individual council members. I know that one goal of the council leadership (especially Garcia) is to get as much consensus as possible (both among the Council members and with the administration) before bringing issues to the floor for a vote.
In my view this is a very good thing. If you bring items to the floor before making an attempt to address everyone's concerns, then you end up with Council members trying to amend the legislation from the floor, and that rarely results in good legislation.
The frequent unanimity of Council votes demonstrates that in the vast majority of cases, a consensus is reached. And this shows that nobody on the Council is simply an obstructionist, as some have been labeled.
Bill the Golfer....to answer your question: did Wicks not vote against a Junction Plaza upgrade with waterfeature? Did she not vote against adding 2 additonal floors to the Wells Fargo
Bldg. Did she not vote against the mixed use zoning in the River Project (or was that Dorrenne Jeske); and did she not vote against the Recreation Center Bonds.
Basically, Wicks, Jeske, and Garcia vote against anything the Mayor initiates. The 7-0 votes you all seem to fond of spouting off about shouldn't count, as many of those initiatives are simply boiler plate fluff, like condemming a parking strip so some guy can build a fence contiguous to his yard.
Will be looking foreward to the election season. But what about Dirk and the conflict of interest? Anyone know?
Forecaster:
Ah, wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. You wrote: Basically, Wicks, Jeske, and Garcia vote against anything the Mayor initiates. The 7-0 votes you all seem to fond of spouting off about shouldn't count.
So... what you are now arguing is that what you claimed is true, Wicks opposes anything the Mayor proposes, and you can prove it, provided any time she did vote for a Godfrey approved measure, it "shouldn't count."
You should write copy for Stephen Colbert and for the Daily Show. They pay good money for people who can write satire that good.
Except I can't escape the sneaking suspicion that you didn't mean it as satire, you meant it seriously.
I also note you didn't mention the first example we came up with: Ms. Wicks vote in favor of the Administration proposed six month moratorium on construction on the River Project. Or shouldn't that one count either?
I love it: all the examples that show you are wrong "shouldn't count."
Hoot and a half....
If I were one of Wicks opponents, I'd be ready to offer you serious money to stop posting on the election. You're not helping their cause.
And polster, if I misspell a word whilst conveying the truth, does that make it a lie? Anyone,anything but lying little matty(gondola still) godfrey. AMEN.
Which is a perfect lead-in for the latest lift ogden gondola cult up-date. Despite being publicly abandoned and thrown under the bus, many cult members suffered only minor injuries,scrapes,bruised egos and such. After several double secret clandestine meetings on the staicase of Bernies building,and multiple encoded transmissions of reassurence from their lying little leader that it was all just a ploy to gain favor with very stupid common folk that might vote in ignorance, (one of our spies intcepted one of these transmissions)now with new found confidence that the fix is in, the cult is active again.
Bigger and better, with more mature leadership and a new secret affiliate.(envision ogden)Their plan it seems is to have the least injured,(from the bus crash) masquerade as viable council candidates hoping to capitalize on fooling the very stupid common folk that might vote in ignorance.(Kent Peterson,royal eccles, Blaine Johnson and Kevin Irons)(there is still one name under investigation)
This line-up is extraordinarily sneaky as none have been photographed with lying little matty, potato nose or short deck. And none appeared in the all geiger, all gondola,all the time telethon run on channel 17 for two years. Double sneaky. I'll tell you, this tape's so hot channel 17 can't keep it in stock, flying off the shelves. These guys are well financed with lying little matty's warchest, full of cash gained from strong armed solicitation methods used on local businesses, and a wealth of sneakily gained fund rasin' booty. These guys are loaded for bear. More later.
Forcaster, thank you for responding, in response I'll say, all your examples represent responsible public stewardship on her part. Good govenance, it's not too late, AMY WICKS for PRESIDENT, oh I got ahead of myself there, CITY COUNCIL. NOte, though it toof an inordinate ammount of time, it's good to see you actually may have done some research, for once. Now you batting .0000000012 %.
My conscience got the best of me. I'm sorry short deck for stealing your MO. I know that prior to my transgression of today that you, and you alone,have been the only person to make your case using fractions, 10 digets passed the decimal. Not even a physics professor has gone to such an exact statement of fact to make a point. For this I appologize to your mother, word on the street is she gave you your first pocket calculator, her only regret being she forgot the pocket protecter. I have one I can give as pennance for my transgression, it's made of clear plastic, no guranimals on it or neat stuff like that, but your welcome to it, if you like.
Did anybody comment that the new gang law looks pretty good? It does to me. I like it when they crack down on this sort of thing.
Another nice thing about election time - things actually get done that people want. The cronies and the chamber of commerce know they have to take a back seat for a few months.
The new "gang law" is a bandaid solution, designed to make Boss Godfrey look like a real pre-election "crime fighter" in a situation where our OPD cries out for more money and troops.
What Ogden's finest really need in their battle against local gangs are the resources to fully man a competent anti-gang unit, and the financial commitment to offer cash rewards to "snitches."
Godfrey won't do that. Attacking the fundamental Emerald City gang problem is something Godfrey will not do, so long as he views the OPD as just another department in city government that has to justify itself with positive revenue.
When Boss Godfrey says his campaign platform is geared toward hiring more police officers, he's talking about more traffic cops.
The crime problem will never be abated in Ogden city, until Boss Godfrey is unceremoniously kicked to the curb in November, and a new mayor takes a realistic grasp of the "gang problem."
Banning suspected gang members from particular places with pre-selected attire won't solve the problem.
It's a superficial, pre-election "band-aide," like we said.
Vote NO on Boss Godfrey in November.
Time to turn the city over to the grownups.
Danny:
I'm a little skeptical about the wisdom of it, but I want to look into it a little further. A little worried about the idea of designating "areas" as, in effect, places where certain kinds of people cannot go. Seems a little dicey to me, and [under different circumstances] subject to abuse. But I'm not that familiar with the Chicago model [apparently the model for the Ogden ordinances] and, recognizing the problem gang violence is in Ogden, I want to reserve judgment for a while.
I recall in Madison, Wisconsin, during the anti-war years, the city government [trying to tamp down student anti-war demonstrations] declared certain areas of the city as "unlawful assembly areas --- these tended to be off-campus student housing areas. In such areas, the presence of more than three people congregating for any reason... even four people sitting on a porch in the evening... constituted an "unlawful assembly." The courts threw it out, ruling [sensibly] that you cannot make mere presence in an area the crime of "unlawful assembly". So the "designated area" aspects of the new ordinances have me a little leery. We'll see.
We have a record in this country of, in the face of a serious problem, grasping at what seems at the time to be a good solution without considering the potential for abuse of the new rules under other circumstances. I recall the shock of Christian conservatives when they discovered that the Federal government was proceeding against those who tried to block entry to abortion clinics under the criminal conspiracy RICO statutes... originally designed as a way to combat organized crime.
So... I'll reserve judgment on the new gang control ordinances for a bit until I look into them a little further.
Lawyers will have a hay day with this new ordinance. They will make a killing in huge legal fees which will be paid by the citizens of Ogden.
Regardless of the possible Chicago origins of this, it smells very un-constitutional. The city cannot just decree a particular color of clothing as illegal!
This smacks of another election year ploy by the Mayor.
forcaster...
Why is it that when a cc person votes against bonding to support a business that should be going to the bank to get the loan, that is voting against progress. I always am and will always be against this type of corporate welfare. But I guess that this is alright with you. To us, the hard earned money we as taxpayer hand over to our govenrment should not be used this way, and all it is doing is feeding the families of the very wealthy. Hurray for corporate welfare.
forecaster:
There's an old, old joke about people who think that all odd numbers are prime. One of them says, "1 is a prime, 3 is a prime, 5 is a prime, 7 is a prime, therefore all odd numbers are prime!"
I'll bet you don't get the joke.
Mother baseball and apple pie, all of short decks examples were of a corporate welfare flavor, 2 extra floors,at city expense and promise to pay all lease ammounts Boyer would expect, along witha promise to find tennants for Boyer to filler up. Quite a guarantee. River project,quite a convaluted mess from the outset, which was five years ago, how many times has something to do with it been in front of the council? Not to mention the selective nature of this administration, choosing who can and can't participate. Probably been a good source of that strong armed warchest filling over the years. Short deck bobby's more full of sh##, than an out house at pineveiw in late August.
Today's Standard-Examiner has a top-of-front-page follow-up article on Patterson's accusation against Garcia.
Rudi's post from last evening is on the money, I think. Main problem with Godfrey is he views government as a business - he thinks it needs to make money. I recall his comment at one of his presentations re: selling the golf course, when someone pointed out that many governmental entities consume tax $ without returning much to the city coffers, like the fire dept. Godfrey's reply? "If I could sell off the fire department to a private entity, I would."
Patterson's bull**** (good for you, Jesse for calling it what it is) allegation is not only despicable, but it doesn't make sense.
If it were true that Garcia fils used to be a gang member, what would it matter if certain areas of the city were targeted now or a few months ago? Bringing it up ("only repeating what I was told", said Patterson) is unconscionable gossip-mongering.
Godfrey and his cronies aren't involved in innocent politics, they ruin lives, or at least do serious damage. Not a real Christian thing to do, in my opinion. Is it any wonder that so many of us use pseudonyms? Remember Matt Jones and Dean Martinez?
Just a heads up on two other articles that might be of interest to WCF readers. The first is Holly Mullen's column in this weeks Salt Lake City Weekly. It has to do with urban planning, and more particularly, in designing [and zoning] to encourage a "walking city" in downtown areas, which I seem to recall Ogden's council and mayor have said is the goal here too. I can't find a link on the current on line City Weekly site so you'll have to pick up a copy [free] from the drop points and boxes around town, I guess.
Second, another article from the SL Trib about homes sliding down hills in Draper, having been built apparently on too steeply sloping and unstable land. Sad. People being wiped out financially, since normal homeowner's insurance does not cover land movement. Something to keep in mind should Hizonnah decide to reverse himself and put accommodating the building of megahomes on the city bench lands by fiddling with the slope restrictions in Ogden's Sensitive Area Overlay zones on the front burner again. Link here
Curm: Thanks for the heads-up on the Trib article. To the best of my knowledge, the city administration has not reversed its position on loosening slope angle restrictions. I'm not sure the mayor's recent announcement has any bearing on this issue, one way or the other. In fact, putting the golf course off limits could increase the pressure (from Peterson and his supporters, including the mayor) to build on the steeper areas above the golf course.
Kent Peterson IS the car dealer guy who in his greedy lust for more money was snookered by Wayne Ogden for $900,000. Is that the guy you want on the cc making financial decisons in this city?
He also has a rep for being a somewhat [removed by administrator] car dealer and bully.
Take a close look at this guy.
Amy has not voted with Jeskse too often...in fact, her votes were often a disappointment...Garcia's too.
Just checked the Ogden City home page and the gondola article is no longer listed. You can still get to it if you search for "gondola", and the article itself is unchanged--still saying the golf course will be sold.
The Chamber of Commerce web site is also unchanged, still with a prominent link to the Peterson landgrab information and their endorsement statement from over a year ago.
Upon furthur review, and in light of today's front page article in the SE, I must conclude that the Godfrey Administrations comments via Patterson were calculated. Calculated to divide the electorate and stir up racial prejudice in an effort to gain votes. I am sickened by this.
I pray that enough people in Ogden reject these divisive tactics and see that Godfrey is not reelected.
This kind of comment can only reflect badly on those saying it. I was pleased to see Jesse describing Patterson's comment for what it is: bull****.
As a descendant of Italians and Irish (both of which had their criminal element), I know that those groups were feared and denigrated at one time the way Hispanics are now in some circles. Grow up, people - Hispanics are here, they are staying, and most are really good people. Not all are illegal, not all are criminals, and to paint an entire group of people with labels like that does nothing to make Ogden a better place to live. In a State with such a huge religious presence, I'd love to see more people (especially at City Hall) behaving like true Christians.
Conversation overheard on a UTA bus this morning, Harrison Ave [3 people involved].
"Well, looks like we won't have the gondola to worry about this year."
"Do you think Godfrey did it to get reelected?"
"[Chuckle]Of course he did. I'm telling you, he get's re-elected, the morning after, the gondola will be back."
"[Chuckle] Got that right."
Some pretty savvy people riding the buses these days in Ogden....
Latinos in Ogden is definitely a topic worthy of discussion in this upcoming election. What has Godfrey done to date to at least acknowledge this segment (approximately 30%) of our population? A Latino Assistant Mayor? I recall something about that, but I'm not sure much was done, good or bad. There is definitely an oft not discussed tension within our community. Over the time I have lived here the comments I have heard have been largely narrow-minded and negative, sadly. Latinos are here to stay. Let's involve them in our community. Let's also help their businesses grow and help them add to our economic development base.
As for the accusations against Garcia, how unfortunate. Monotreme, why do you think Patterson is “a much better person than this?” As far as I’m concerned, he’s responsible as he has made the statements. Patterson is the last person that should be bringing family matters into the game (not that anybody should).
Curm,
Is this the Mullen article you mentioned?
http://www.slweekly.com/article.cfm/towncrier
One fired employee who is really getting ticked in the teeth by Ogden is Lewis Reese, the ex-principal of Da Vinci Academy.
Da Vinci was created by the Utah Legislature at the request of the State School Board with a $900,000.00 grant lobbied for by Mayor Godfrey to acquire the American Can property for a High Tech Center anchored by Da Vinci Academy.
It is the role of the Utah State School Board to have their own separate audit done on Da Vinci Academy each June 30th.
That Auditor found certain discrepancies in the June 30, 2006 audit and instructed Lewis Reese, then principal, to take the issues to the FBI.
Lewis Reese did as they suggested and was fired for doing so.
He was not only fired but he has been blackballed by Ogden so that when he applies for a job and the prospective employer asks for a reference from Ogden the reference is couched to keep him from getting the job. Because of being blackballed he and his family are out on the street and have since lost their home. Their circumstances are becoming dire.
In early 2007 Da Vinci had their annual required audit of procedures and curriculum and passed with such high marks that they will not have to have another such audit for six years.
This was shortly after Lewis Reese was terminated after he had been responsible for the school until that time so it appears he had been doing his job very well.
His big mistake was in doing what the State Board of Education auditor told him to do.
I am bringing this information to light because everyone in Ogden needs to know how vicious and ugly Mayor Godfrey fights anyone who interferes with one of his plans.
You are going to ask what he has to do with Da Vinci Academy and the answer is "everything".
Scott Brown was the guiding hand behind Da Vinci from the day it became a plan in order to acquire the American Can property.
Da Vinci was created as a Charter School. A charter school usually fails within the first 3 years of operation. It was the Mayor's plan for it to fail so that Ogden would own all the property.
It would have failed except for the President of the Da Vinci School Board borrowing $100,000.00 in her own name to save the school in 2005. This was the year Lewis Reese became the principal who also helped save the school.
If you are going to vote for the next Mayor of Ogden please do your homework and know who and what you are really voting for.
Are they what they appear to be??????
Southsider:
Yes, that's the one. Damned if I could find it on line. Thanks.
Interesting article on msnbc.com/travel. Lower level ski resort in the French Alps permanently closed [declining snow makes operation impossible]. Mid level resort operator in bankruptcy protection for same reason. Link here.
From the story: The city council of Abondance — its name a cruel reminder of the generous snowfall it once enjoyed — voted last month 9-6 to shut down the ski area that has been its economic raison d'etre for more than 40 years. The reason: not enough snow....
Abondance is the French Alps' first ski station to fall apparent victim to global warming. It will almost certainly not be the last.
Last week, a commercial court in Lyon put the Transmontagne company, which operates mid-altitude resorts in France, Switzerland, Italy and Slovenia, under bankruptcy protection for the next six months. Warming weather is seen as a key reason for its financial woes.
Yes, I know, every ski area is different, and micro-climates can exist only moments away from each other. Nevertheless, I thought the article might be of some interest.
Oh, and here's the link to the Holly Mullen piece in the SL City Weekly Southsider kindly chased down for me. Link here.
Nice research, Curm. Your'e really on the ball.
Rocky Anderson issued a warning not long ago regarding Utah's snow sport resort industry. He warned that it will suffer dire impacts from the warming.
I haven't bought a season pass to Powder or Basin in five years. It's just too sketchy anymore to lay down that kind of cash when I only seem able to hit five or six awesome powder days (18"+) every season in the last few years.
6 x $50 = $300,
Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but I'm speculating with my wallet. I think we are in a locked-in drought cycle right now, and by the time we come out of it, the warming will raise the snow level just a little more and deteriorate the conditions just a little more. Again, all speculation.
Jill:
Sorry I didn't see your earlier question. I'll answer on this thread, since you asked me here.
I've had dealings with Mr. Patterson on a number of occasions, not having to do directly with Ogden City business.
(To say any more might reveal who I am, and knowing what a bunch of vindictive little ****s we're dealing with, I ain't gonna do that.)
I've found him to be an interesting and (dare I say) fun guy to hang out with.
Now, through the S-E and other sources I've seen the way he operates at work (today's email was a big clue). Now I can judge the man by his deeds and not by his public persona, and I don't like his public persona very much.
I am still waiting for him to really apologize, loudly and publicly, for his remarks and emails regarding Council Chair Garcia. His failure to do so is very disturbing.
John if you are reading this, mark my words well.
Saying, "Oops, I got carried away in my passionate support for this piece of legislation" is NOT apologizing.
You need to apologize, and so does the mayor. Quickly, please. If a person like me, predisposed to like you (because I do), is ready to give up on you because of this nonsense, I assure you that many, many other Ogdenites feel the same.
Race-baiting is not an appropriate election strategy.
Attacking a man's family and personal life, regardless of the reason, is not an appropriate election strategy. It doesn't play in Peoria, and it doesn't play over here in the Fourth Ward.
Patterson is a lackey for Godfrey. Remember that awful interview he gave over St Anne's and the bums urinating on our streets? Pure Godfrey. The crime is that Patterson has no self respect and puts his name on this crap.
One of Godfrey’s moles has been missed in the posts above: DENNIS HOWLAND who is running for At Large Seat C against Wicks. He used to be the commander of the VFW. KENT PETERSEN, who is running for Rick’s seat is from the same pod as Godfrey. They both are devious, dishonest and lie. My guess is, that he was Godfrey’s mentor. If any of you doubt my words, check the old Standard Examiner archived copies in the 1970s. He made headlines more than once for dealing dishonestly with his customers. We don’t need Matt Godfrey (aka Kent Petersen) on the council!
Monotreme, you said:
I wonder when Mayor Godfrey is going to give up this stupid "gondola/gondola" (thanks, Curm) idea once and for all.
I thought he was on the road to recovery, but this is a serious relapse.
We are glad that Godfrey slipped off the road, and let you and everyone else who believes his lies know that he just said it to get votes. A leopard can’t change his spots, and neither can Godfrey. His statements a couple of weeks ago were nothing more than political propaganda to try and win those votes who are against it.
Jest wonderin, you said:
So, did VH announce and what did she promise?
YES!! Van Hooser did announce Monday night. She was well-organized and prepared. She had a big banner that had a silhouette of the Municipal Bldg., and stated “Mayor Susie Van Hooser.” She had a very good crowd there. She handed out a 4” X 6” card with her picture that said: “Imagine the Possibility…A Mayor that works for Everyone . . . Imagine… A Mayor who listens to your ideas. That’s Susie. Imagine… A Mayor who finds the common ground. That’s Susie. Imagine… A mayor who cares about all of Ogden’s citizens. That’s Susie. Bring Back Ogden’s S.O.U.L Bring back Ogden’s S.O.U.L. Sensible, Open, Unified, Leadership
Susie Van Hooser” Everything was very positive, and she has already developed her strategy. I think that she will be a good mayor and a HUGE IMPROVEMENT!!
Danny, in Van Hooser speech she covered the things that you mentioned are priorities:
1. “Let's have an open, honest government, that is interested in, and seeks, public input.” 2. “Talk about the future - where we go from here - and keep it positive.”
How would it be to have an open city government that TRULY puts the citizens interests as a major factor in making decisions and has the city’s best interests at heart? I hope she knows that she will have to clean house from Patterson to Montgomery in order to achieve that.
I’m sure that we would see a huge economic boom of businesses coming to down town where they are treated like businesses even if they aren’t in the ski business.
How would it be to have the Council and the Mayor working together on most issues? I’m sure the Council would appreciate knowing about things before they happened. (I don’t know about you, but my imagination is having trouble bringing up such an image – we sure haven’t seen anything even close to it in the last 9 years because Godfrey is NOT a team player! I understand that the only time he talks to the Council as a whole is when he wants money. I know there are some Council members who can see through his thin veneer of “Isn’t it nice that we’re talking about things?” I understand that was his approach when he wanted the money to pay down the debt so that he could make a big show of trying to get out of debt for his campaign.
dan s. you said: “I heard a rumor last night that UTA will reluctantly reimburse the city for the $16,000 Lewis-Young-Robertson-Burningham study, but won't spend any more of the $250,000 until the mayor and the city council can agree on how it should be spent.” I hope that is true. And I agree with Curmudgeion that it is encouraging that they recognized the council as part of the city government! I think Dennis Howland is way off base in his statement that “the current council is ineffective.” I guess he would prefer the old “rubber stamp” council! We’ve got to make sure he isn’t elected or we’ll have another Brandon Stephenson on the council. It blows my mind that he’s unopposed! What happened with the north end of town? Don’t we have anyone who cares, who has some balls? You guys deserve what you get with Stephenson. I’m disgusted! Don’t you think Jeske needs some help and support on the Council?
WE HAVE TO BE VERY ACTIVE IN POINTING OUT IN THIS ELECTION THOSE CANDIDATES WHO WILL REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF THE OGDEN RESIDENTS!
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