By Curmudgeon
Mr. Dave Hardman [OWCC President and CEO] is in the Standard-Examiner this morning with another Op-Ed piece [written in tandem with the heads of the Davis C of C and the Brigham City Area C of C.] It's quite a piece of work.
The point of it is to convince voters to approve the transportation sales tax up for a vote this November. Hardman and Company spend much of their time belaboring the obvious: traffic in Weber and Davis Counties is a mess; the population is growing dramatically; traffic will get a lot worse unless we do something; whatever something we do will cost a lot of money. No reasonable person could argue with any of that.
Then Hardman & Co. move in for the kill: "The money generated by the additional quarter-cent sales tax," they tell us, "will fund mass transit projects, road construction and corridor preservation at current prices."
Quite a list. Very impressive. And "mass transit projects" right up there in the first spot among the benefits of passing that tax. Of course, what Mr. Hardman does not tell us is that in the suggested priority list of projects slated for Weber County [Ogden included] there is exactly one... count 'em one... transit project. A Bus Rapid Transit line from downtown to WSU and McKay Dee Hospital. That's it. [And he does not tell us either that Mayor Godfrey is fighting even that, hoping to preserve the route for his Quixotic gondola.] The overwhelming majority of the money [in the suggested Weber County priority projects list] will go to road construction, which, oddly, only makes second place on Mr. Hardman's list. Imagine that.
And what Mr. Hardman and Company also do not tell us is that none, repeat none, of the projects on the suggested priority list are guaranteed to be built with the tax money. That's right, none. UDOT and UTA and WACOG [Wasatch Area Council of Governments] which have to approve projects can spend the tax money, once it's approved, for other projects than the ones on the priority list. What they're saying is "give us the money without strings attached. Trust us to use it wisely. "
In the recent Salt Lake City referendum on a transportation tax, voters knew they were voting for new TRAX lines. Guarantees were given beforehand about what the money would be spent on. It wasn't a general transportation tax, it was a transit tax voters were asked to approve. That is not what is being proposed here. That is not what Mr. Hardman et al. are touting.
And of course, Mr. Hardman does not mention that he and the Ogden-Weber Chamber of Commerce have been touting, loudly, for two years now, the selling of the city's parklands in the foothills to a real estate developer for a gated community of vacation villas in order to raise money to build Mayor Godfrey his gondola --- a plan the Mayor has now announced he not only no longer supports, but a project he now recognizes was never feasible in the first place because the land is too steep to build all those vacation villas on anyway. [Apparently, Mr. Hardman and the Chamber he leads either did not notice that the land was steep, or the land has suddenly gotten a lot steeper than it was two years ago. Take your pick.]
Which means Mr. Hardman and his Chamber backed the project without, apparently, having done any research to see if it was feasible or not. Mr. Hardman followed the Mayor and the Chamber followed Mr. Hardman straight over the cliff, without fear and without research. Which at least entitles us to ask of Mr. Hardman if he and the Chamber have put any more work into researching the tax proposal and its impact than they evidently put into backing the park sale and gondola fiasco.
I don't know if the tax is a good idea or not. I haven't decided yet. There are reasonable arguments to be made on both sides. But the tax advocates and the members of the Ogden-Weber Chamber of Commerce do their cause little good by sending Mr. Hardman out to write op-eds that dissemble, and obscure, and leave out key information that voters ought to have. I'd have found a full consideration of the proposal, pros and cons, leading to the Chamber's decision to support it far more convincing than the blending of the obvious with convenient half-truths and omissions Mr. Hardman and his co-authors served up to Ogden voters this morning in the Std-Ex.
Update 10/10/07 3:27 p.m. MT: A Not so subtle reminder: Amy Wicks, who is running for the Council again, will be at Grounds for Coffee at 30th and Harrison today, Oct. 10th, from 7 pm till 9 pm. Great chance to meet the Councilwoman and talk with her about what concerns you most about Ogden -- or what you like most and want to see preserved. A chance to ask questions and make your views known, straight up and face to face.
© 2005 - 2014 Weber County Forum™ -- All Rights Reserved
59 comments:
With my property TAX going up, and then all the fees we pay, can't the commissioners just put it in the budget for all these little projects that they say are for us.
Just vote NO on option 1 and send a real message to those in charge, that we are in charge and we are tired of it. JUST VOTE NO.
I agree w/ sick and tired, vote no. After looking at the list of projects provided on the NUTA website (Dave Hardman and the Ogden/Weber Chamber are leading this alliance): NUTA Website , it looks like we, Weber County and Ogden City residents, will benefit very little (at such a high cost). When will real transportation alternatives ever be prioritized? These proposals will do virtually nothing to fix our future transportation needs.
Ya just gotta love the acronym NUTA!
I think another one like that could fit the mayor. Northern Utah Two Term Yahoo - NUTTY!
Someone planted "Vote Yes on Opinion Question 1" signs all along WSU's frontage on Harrison this weekend, and up around the football stadium. Nobody is allowed to post political signs on campus without permission, and checking with the proper authorities on campus revealed that nobody had asked. Big surprise.
From the Standard Examiner's story this morning on the community meeting to discuss crime Monday night:
He [Mayor Godfrey] also said a six-officer crime-reduction unit will be added Nov. 1, instead of in January as originally planned, something he said would drastically improve Ogden streets.
Moved up from January to November 1st --- just days before the election. Imagine that. Purely coincidence, I'm sure.
The full SE story can be found here.
Glossy:
BTW, thanks very much for putting up the NUTA link.
Thanks, Curm, for bringing up the proposed tax increase.
Just a few clarifications (and opinions!):
WACOG stands for Weber (not Wasatch) Area Council Of Governments. It consists of all the mayors in the county, the chair of the Ogden City Council, and the three county commissioners. That's 19 votes total, of which Ogden has precisely 2. So we get 11% of the votes when we have 37% of the population and, I think, more than 40% of the sales tax generation. I worry that the votes will be stacked against Ogden when it comes time to decide how this money is spent.
Last March, WACOG took an unscheduled, nonbinding vote on how they'd like to allocate the new revenue (if the tax passes) between mass transit (which mostly benefits Ogden) and roads (which mostly draw economic investment out into the suburbs). Mayor Godfrey didn't attend that meeting and Chair Garcia had just left early, not realizing the vote was coming up. The head of WFRC gave WACOG two options: a 50-50 split between roads and transit, or a split of 80% on roads and 20% on transit. Commissioner Dearden moved for the 50-50 split and his motion died for lack of a second. They then voted for the 80-20 split, with Dearden as the only dissenting vote.
Technically, when the voters in Salt Lake County approved a similar tax increase last year, they had no guarantees either on how the tax would be spent. But the whole campaign was based on five specific rail transit projects, so that's what voters thought they were voting for, and the officials were then morally (if not legally) bound to honor the voters' intent. Over 70% of the money there will be spent on transit. (The Legislature has required that at least 25% be spent on highway corridor preservation.)
If the tax passes here in Weber County there will be no clear mandate from the voters for any particular transit project, because there's no transit project that our elected officials have even agreed to pursue. Faced with this indecision on the transit side, I'm afraid that WACOG will feel free to commit virtually all of the money to highways in Hooper and Plain City. These highways are not designed to serve Ogden--they're designed to bypass Ogden, sucking investment out west and sucking jobs to Salt Lake.
I too saw the illegally placed pro-tax signs along the front of WSU's property over the weekend. Haven't looked in the last couple of days. Are they still there?
It's worth pointing out that the campaign to pass this tax is being funded by developers and construction companies. Nothing wrong with that, of course--they have every right to do so. But voters should be aware of which special interests are behind this.
Speaking of business (Ogden/Weber COC), here is an interesting economic-related study - Economic Study - that was recently completed that my colleague passed along to me: I don’t take whole lot of stock w/ its results and am not sure if it means much in the larger scheme of things, but it is food for fodder. The study looks at not only jobs created, but also jobs sustained. I think overall it gives a good indication of the nature of our nation’s economy and related trends. It appears to me that what is happening in Ogden, in terms of our economic and business redevelopment, is nothing extraordinary. What is happening in terms of revitalization (for lack of a better term) in Ogden is happening all over the West (Idaho, California, Arizona, Nevada). Plus, the Provo Metro area and Salt Lake City Metro area are ranked highly (in the top 25 and both have moved up a few notches over the past 2 years), while Ogden is ranked 42 (down a few spots since 2005). What I get from this is that Ogden is doing fairly well in terms of its local economy and jobs, as is the rest of the West (compared to other regions in the country), but it is doing so at much higher rate of debt than other places. Ogden has spent a lot of public money to revitalize its downtown, while other cities (from what I have heard and read) have spent much less and have gotten just as much of a bang. There is a lot that can be inferred from this study and I’m not an economist or businessman, for what it’s worth, but that was my take. And I don’t mean to take away from the transportation topic (sorry Rudi), but it is all related IMHO.
As of Sunday night, the signs along Harrison were no longer there. Someone must have thought such a misleading message shouldn't be left up through Monday-morning rush hour.
That's OK, Glossy.
We proposed the same hypothesis in an earlier WCF article:
"The claim that Godfrey is solely responsible for economic revival in Ogden is nearly identical to another keystone claim in the Boss Godfrey re-election arsenal: that Boss Godfrey is responsible for lowering the crime rate in Ogden. Of course that theme was thoroughly demolished last Tuesday on this very blog.
In that connection, we ask the question: Is the "Boss Godfrey the Economic Savior" theme susceptible to the same method of analysis as the now debunked "Godfrey the Crime-fighter" theme? The answer, we think, is "yes."
First, this latest self-serving Boss Godfrey claim is likewise founded upon the same post hoc logical fallacy. The fact that our town's seeming renaissance is happening during Godfrey's watch actually permits no logical inference re causation at all.
And looking toward broad economic circumstances, we find that the "rising tide" of economic revival is actually a phenomenon that's being experienced all across the state, not merely in Ogden City. Although we don't have data specific to Ogden, we'll speculate, reasonably we think, that the figures reflecting "boom times" in Ogden would be quite similar to those demonstrated elsewhere in Utah. A rising tide lifts all boats, after all.
Would Boss Godfrey claim full credit for economic circumstances plainly not of his own making? Isn't he the guy with more integrity than anyone in the room?
Never mind. We already know the answer to that." ....
"1) Unlike most cities in Utah which are reaping the benefits of Utah's booming economy, Boss Godfrey has been simultaneously creating public debt like a madman. Whereas other Utah communities will be reaping the benefits of a hot Utah economy without the burdens of massively-increased public debt, Emerald City will be paying off bonds into our grand kids' generation. Will Boss Godfrey's recent massive public expenditures for risky projects like the rec center pay off during the lifetime of the supporting debt instruments? Or will the taxpayers of Ogden ultimately be "on the hook," when the "boom times" turn to "slack times" (as they inevitably do)? How long into the 20-year bonding pay-down term, we ask, will Salomon Center patrons remain interested in novelty gimmicks like this?"
Thanks for supplying the new data, which supports our above-satad hypothesis.
I appreciate Andy Howell posting today, on yesterday's thread.
And I feel that "just an old businessman"'s post from yesterday was very observant and well stated. It falls under the category of "That which is obvious, but which few see."
There have been some really good posts lately. It's nice to have a place to go where one can see a little light.
As far as transportation goes--the proposed tax that Hardman and others are touting, it is interesting to see just how much their plan counters from what really needs to happen in Utah. If you haven't read the cover story of the SL Trib today, I would highly suggest doing so. Carbon dioxide emmissions are increasing faster here than anywhere else in the country. More roads leads to more cars which leads to more congestion and more carbon dioxide which leads to more adverse health effects and higher temperatures and so on. If you have gone outside on any given day during the winter months in Utah over recent years you know what I am talking about. It is an ugly cycle that needs to be broken. This proposal flys in the face of what actually needs to be done.
Here's a link to the SL Trib article Glossy mentioned above. A real eye-opener, and it raises exactly the questions Glossy pointed out. Even if the various agencies involved keep to the "proposed" list of projects, the great majority of the funds will go to roads, not transit.... The reverse of what was done in Salt Lake.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7133901
Rudi
Another couple of points about the rec center and the bonds.
Will the wind tunnel and surf rider mechanical apparatus last as long as the bonds?
What is the useful life of all the whiz bang machines in the penny arcade, are they longer than the bonds?
Who pays the bonds if Fat Cats and Golds goes belly up?
Daren,
We the people will pay, and don't let them tell you differently. money is money and when we have to bail those companies out we then lose service we would otherwise be getting and that money could also be used for the transportation needs. That is why we should just vote no.
For as long as I can remember the Ogden Chamber of Commerce has never been one of my favorite groups.
They have never helped promote small businesses.
My impression is that they have luncheons and collect dues and the head of it travels around
Good questions, Daren, but this one is the best of all:
Q: "Who pays the bonds if Fat Cats and Golds goes belly up?"
A: The taxpayers of Ogden. That's the "Short Answer."
Boss godfrey has pledged ALL BDO revenue to the ridiculous Salomon Center Loan.
Not only has Boss Godfrey tied up ALL BDO revenue to paying off this loan... The bond documents contain a "moral obligation clause"requiring the city to morally, even though not legally, stand up for payment deficiencies owed to the bond holders.
The upshot of this is that Ogden City Bonds will henceforth be regarded as "junk bonds" in the bond market, in the event that these bonds go into default -- which they will.
How many of you are old enough to remember when Utah was way too wet and the Great Salt Lake was rising?
So the Legislature passed some bill or other to put on a tax to buy pumps to pump the water out of the Lake.
Citizens are still paying thousands of dollars to clean and maintain the pumps.
Once a tax is put on we can never get rid of it.
More taxpayer monies are constantly being thrown at transportation and roads that are never accounted.
And the laws providing for raising the gas taxes and whatever else goes into the Transportation Fund
are never removed.
Speaking of the Salomon Center have the final figures for the cost of construction by R&O Construction ever been furnished to the Council or the taxpayers?
but rudizink,
The Ogden City Finance person that I think is somebody called Arrington said in a SE Letter to the Editor that taxpayers are not obligated for the bonds.
That's what Harmer and all the RDA bunch says every time the question comes up.
Who're you believin
Proof positive that empty suits lie!
Chambers of Commerce [properly organized, properly run] can be very beneficial to towns and cities. Or they can be a kind of Members Protective Association for big players to the detriment of smaller ones. Or they can sink into a kind of mindless boosterism and Babbitry.
Run right, Chamber-endorsed projects would be thoroughly researhed, thoroughly vetted, so that the Chamber's endorsement would carry a great deal of weight with the general public. The Ogden-Weber Chamber's blind endorsement of the now-announced not feasible park sale to build gondolas scheme undercut that presumption entirely.
IF the Chamber wants to make a case to the public... as it has every right to... it would be wise of it, I think, to treat the voting public as intelligent enough to recognize one-sided dissembling when they see it. And to instead offer the public carefully thought out, balanced assessments of a project's pros and cons, and then explain why, on balance the Chamber thinks the project would be a wise one to adopt and support.
What Mr. Hardman and his co-authors offered in the SE today looked more like wordy advertising copy than public discussion. What the voters need... from him, from the SE when it treats the matter editorially, from opponents of the tax... are well-reasoned, well-supported arguments that consider the matter's upsides and down and that then, in light of both, reach a conclusion and explain why it seems the course of wisdom. Not only would such an essay today have had a better chance of convincing an un-decided like me, it would have served the interests of the Chamber as well, establishing it as a body willing to look at, and present to the public, all significant aspects of a proposed tax or project. Not just the ones favoring the conclusion it wants the public to reach.
Curm, get real, you're talking about Hardman. The ex-tie salesman, he's not much more than a geiger, geiger, geiger, geiger.
Thanks for the Amy Wicks meetup reminder, Rudy.
Here we have this great city councilwoman, Wicks, running against this fifth-generation Eccles nitwit "Regal Eccles" (or whatever his name is), who descends from the wrong side of the Eccles family, and represents the shallow end of the Eccles gene pool, even among the highly suspect "Bertha" geneological line.
David Eccles is no doubt rolling over in his grave over the "Royal Eccles" council candidacy.
The little punk slacker "Royal" represents the very worst of the Eccles line.
I've just received a communication from the Weber League of Women Voters announcing that a second mayoral candidates' debate has been scheduled for Wednesday evening, October 24, at 7 pm at the Eccles Conference Center, 2415 Washington Blvd. The event will be jointly sponsored by the League and the Ogden-Weber Chamber of Commerce.
Meanwhile, I note that the gondola promotional stuff is still there on the Chamber's web site, unaltered since spring 2006.
dan:
A debate? Off campus? In a public place? Sponsored in part by the Chamber? And Ms. Van Hooser will be there? But... but... but... how can that be? The Godfreyistas have been assuring us all for a couple of weeks that Ms. Van Hooser didn't have the cojones [so to speak] to face the Mayor in public debate anywhere but on campus? Why, if one didn't know better, one would have to conclude that yet again, the Godfreyistas didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Imagine that.
The announcement of this debate is actually very funny, just like everything involving Boss Godfrey's 2007 campaign.
With this announcemt it would appear that the mind-numbed Gondolist Zombies, i.e., Botched Bobby, Dumb Abe and David of the Allen Family will have to eat their harsh Letters to the Editors words.
And what could ever be more delightful to the lumpencitizens of Emerald City, than to watch a smart career public school educator (Susie) grab the little emotionally undeveloped and sassy 12-year old (Godfrey) by the ear, and make him write "I am a BAD little boy" on the debate blackboard 100 times?
Susie is obviously well-skilled to do that.
We'll DEFINITLEY BE LOOKING CLOSELY at this 10/24/07 event.
GAWD do we LOVE Emerald City Politics!!!
We sauntered thru the rec center yesterday. Two boys who "work" the climbing wall....were climbing on the wall because there were no customers. "yeah, it's dead during the week...weekends are better". $7.00 to climb...unlimited times...$5.00 for under 12. Probably the only bargain in the place.
The Costa Vida with so MANY tables! A mom and two little kids, and two young women having a coke. Then we walked down that lonnng hallway to the ...no wait...we walked thru the empty and dry...make that drained Flow Rider...no action. It's a confusing place. We walked all around the arcade...groups of teens watching one of their group play a game. So, out of about 20 persons, only about 6 were actually paying cusomers.
BTW....how is the cash from those video games distributed toward paying off debt? What is Ogden's cut on those kids glued to those screens?
I couldn't believe the tiny size of the bumper car area! Nine cars crammed into that tiny space. It was dark and empty too.
Matt's big visions are so cheap and dinky.
.
We took the elevator up to the 2nd floor to see the iFly. Another teensy space! The benches were folded. No one around except a young woman employee who disappeared into an office to have a snack. Never greeted us.
How the heck will that thing ever make money? It is so expensive! A group of 24 can plunk down NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS for 48 minutes. But, but, but...it appears that no more than two people can dangle up there at a time. Of course, the lucky gliders get to wear one of those 'aero' suts. Hey, that's worth seventy five bucks for 5 minutes!
Have you ever ridden under Niagra Falls and worn one of the yellow rain slickers the tourists are issued? Ohmygosh...smells worse than wet cows in a steaming hay filled barn! However, these suits may never become that 'ripe', as I doubt hundreds will be wearing them.
So, the iFly will be a huge money maker, I am , like, so shure.
We rode in the elevator with an old guy who likes going to the pool at Gold's Gym. THAT place did have a few people utilizing the equipment and pool.
We looked in on the bowling alley. 32 lanes. A mom and two kids...and two young boys on another lane. A real moneymaker.
All that wasted space to walk down blank walled hallways. I thot that shops could occupy that wall space. Selling all sorts of gimmicks and wares. The 'front' need only be the bars that stores use to close down their shops at the Newgate and other malls.
Then we went over to Miller's. I saw 3 people in the lobby...customers, I think.
My impression is that the place is really 3rd rate. SMALL venues...except Costa Vida. All those tables just points up how empty the place really is.
The bumper cars, iFly, The Flow Rider...so small. Just wasted space..nothing cohesive to entice one to go here, go there, let's stop and try this! No excitement!
Well, take two teaspoons of salt with my observations as "everyone" knows I'm "non-progressive and negative".
Of course, another alluring feature is all the construction to behold as you enter and exit. We were thee around 5 pm...school was over. Teenagers milling around the arcade provided the most action.
And folks, we get to pay for that place for the next twenty years....that's just the bond we know about. We don't have a final tally yet!
28 days til Liberation!
Sharon
I had a similar experience at "our" Rec Center a couple of weeks ago. It was sort of like visiting the mausoleum at Forrest Lawn. Big, bold and empty of living creatures.
Do you suppose the city has separate, current and accurate financials on just what business is happening down there? Or, do you think that us peon tax payers are destined to remain in the dark about the true picture? Being that the place is technically leased to the Fat Cats and Fat Guy from Golds, perhaps that puts a layer of "private business" confidentiality between the people who are taking the $25 million dollar risk and the truth about the cash flow?
Perhaps some one could Grama the financials from the city? Or at least see if the two "Fats" are paying the $57,000 per month rent?
And what happens if they miss payments, or can't make them at all, which judging from the lack of warm bodies in the place is a real possibility? How far will the tax payers be required to carry these two obesities?
Sharon:
All businesses have slow times and busy times. No quick run-through on one particular day can tell you much of anything. I was in GFC this morning on Harrison just before ten AM, when the place usually has a lot of business. I was the only one in the shop. Judging from a visit then, I'd assume he was going under. Back after class this afternoon, and the joint was jumping. Two days ago, there at ten AM and there was a line for coffee. It varies.
In any case, I truly hope your conclusions about the businesses in the Salomon Center are wrong. What would be best for Ogden is for the place to succeed and the businesses to range from making it at one end to very successful. In any case, it's going to be a while before we know. When the rest of the Junction development is open... the condos, the office block... and Frontrunner is pulling in to O Town regularly. We'll know then. I don't think we'll know before. I sure hope it all works out. We, the citizens, are on the hook for a ton of dinero if it doesn't.
Curm,
Your optimism with regards to the Rec Center is unwarranted.
I’ve been going there to see how our city’s investment has been doing for a couple of months now, at varying times of the day because I was thinking like you that there are most likely periods of the day that do better than other times. Saturdays do OK but the rest of the time the place is darn slow relative to what you would expect. Seems the gym is doing much better than the rest of the facility and it’s not setting the place on fire.
People are complaining about the gym too, say it's too expensive. They have doubled or tripled the cost of lockers and towels. Pick-up games of B ball at lunch cost $10/head and you don’t get a sandwich either. The place is not drawing people like the old facility.
The market for the activities downstairs within the facility is geared toward teenagers and if they aren't coming now they are not going to come with condos or office buildings.
Even the Frontrunner isn't going to make this sinking ship float.
Responsible citizenship requires us to elevate public education, not to abandon it for selfish, elitist, anti-social reasons.
To all my loyal fans and followers, don't listen to all of the naysayers that keep attacking my integrity and veracity. Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it.
Curm,
You sound optimistic about the Front runner bringing souls to the O town, but I have a bad feeling that it will serve the opposite purpose. I think it will be a way for people to escape the reigns of the mistakes Godfrey has made, and give the locals a good way to get to the Big City.
I hope I am wrong, but I am only going with my gut instincts.
Plaine Jane, to answer your questions about the cost of the Solamon Center: No! Councilwoman Jeske asked for those figures about a month ago, and Jesse asked at Council meeting this week. They were told that they are still working on the report and they wanted to make sure there were no mistakes.
One of the Council members told me that they received a phone call from a friend asking if it were legal for a candidate to have people calling asking for people to vote for them. They went on to explain that they had received a call asking whether they could be counted on to vote for Mayor Godfrey. They were afraid to answer truthfully for fear of being put on a Mayor reprisal list such as the code compliance rule. It's time for the little dictator to work somewhere else. VOTE THE SCOUNREL OUT!!
The rec center is tawdry. Bumper cars, iFly, Flowrider are very small. Did any of you ever go to the Pike in Long Beach, CA? Bumper cars and the other carny attractions were large enuf to attract and hold peoples' attention and entice us to 'do that again!' This rec center just seems more like a neighborhood carny that the organizers wanted to offer the kids SOMEthing to do.
It just looks cheap.
Curm, I talked to the employees...except at the iFly...where the employee wasn't interested in greeting us tho we hung around for awhile. But, we picked up their price card.
The arcade had life...dark tho. The bumper cars are like an afterthot in the corner.
My husband went into the gym and said there were guys in there working out.
But, Ozboy brot up our question too: Who is paying the rent on that joint?
This "Recreation Mecca" just has a junky look and feel.
Now FrontRunner is coming! I'm excited about that! How many hundreds will come each week to plunk down money in the rec center? It's horribly expensive. The average family can't afford those prices. Once you've played the hightech video games, reminiscent of what most have at home, anyway, what else can they afford to do?
Most bowling alleys that 'make it', book leagues all hours of the day and nite. The successful ones hardly have empty lanes open for the casual bowler.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but unless wandering around a confusing jumble and eating a taco from a chain 'restorante' will entice hundreds...perhaps a thousand fun seekers every week, I don't have much hope for the place.
It is not magnificent. It is not a 'high tech adventure cnter'....probably looked great on paper.
Once the Frontrunner brings the hordes to Ogden and they descend on the rec center, what else will they do? NO shops, no sidewalk cafes, NO high end retail stores. Oh, they can wander over to 25th Street...but then what?
Stare at office buildings and condos?
Get real...this is going to go down as Godfrey's Goof.
Riverdale has lured wonderful new businesses. The new Penney's, TJ Maxx, Ross, etc complex is deliteful. We coulda had that too. But, this little mayor with the massive ego spent his time with his head in a gondola car...giving away millions to the entreprenuers HE thinks are the right type for his elitist visions.
Business expeperience? His experience is giving the taxpayers the 'business'.
Curm...so I'm not pleased with what I saw and heard from the workers. The place is dead. Being busy one day a week won't cut it.
Do I hope it succeeds? Of course. We all are investd in that place for decades.
How much money is generated, for Ogden, from teenagers being glued to pinball machines and video games?
What is wrong with people in this town? Are we so afraid of a 5'3" guy that we can’t tell him to piss up a rope?
This is America damn it! People need to realize that they have this thing called the 1st amendment to speak their mind without fear of reprisal. I am getting tired of the pussies in this town, stand up and make your voice and opinions heard!
Ah Sharon, I like to think of the Rec Center as our rebirth of Chuck E Cheese.
mass transit,
I suspect you're right that most FrontRunner passengers will be traveling from homes in Ogden to jobs and other activities in SLC, rather than the reverse. But the FrontRunner will still be good for Ogden because these people will pass through downtown at the beginning and end of their trips, and often patronize downtown businesses at those times. Also, the FrontRunner is creating a demand for housing downtown, and that's a very good thing.
Candidates have the right to call residents to solicit votes.
You can hang up...say "hell no I won't vote for you!", or talk to the caller.
This is still America...do you think Godfrey and family are going to throw a bomb through your window if you tell the caller you wouldn't vote that guy for latrine duty?
I get so frustrated at the cowardice of so many in this town. Speak up! Ed Allen is full of poisonous venom, but he's a coward too. Godfrey couldn't even give a description of the so-called bad man who came to his door and threatened to kill him. Why? Was he hiding behind Monica?
Get signs up all over town for VanHooser, Wicks, Ardema and Gochnour.
Stop being afraid of this dictator. He's on his way out!
I'm with you, Honest Abe! Light those torches and march around City Hall and see how brave that crime fighter is.
Teensy men make the best dictators.
Honest Abe,
Your right and if those that have been affected by the little man and don't speak up they are just as guilty as he is. In that respect, they must be agreeing with him and that is just as bad.
I hope you are right , Dan. If Gadi and his friends haven't been given first dibs on all available properties downtown to build on!
Oh, and let us not forget BootJack LLC.
Sharon and Mass Transit:
I don't expect FR to bring masses of revelers into town for the Junction. What I do expect is that it will create a lot of housing --- condos, apts --- downtown, and as the downtown residential population rises as I expect it to, it will create a close-in growing customer base for restaurants and entertainments at the Junction. Or I should say may, rather than will. We'll have to see.
And I'm not optimistic. I just think it's too early to know for sure how this will all work out. That's all I said. You seem to assume that a lack of pessimism is in fact optimism. It's not.
Something's Rotten:
What Mayor Godfrey's campaign is conducting by phone is a canvass. They ask if they can count on a person's support. If the person says no, they go on to the next call. If the person says yes, they make a note of the number. On election day, they start their GOTV [Get Out The Vote] campaign, which will involve calling all of those who said "yes, you can count on me" to make sure they voted, to offer rides to the polls if needed, etc.
Nothing sinister about it. Standard canvassing and GOTV methods.
We need revenue flowing in now! Look how long it's taking to get the rec center complex finished.
How far into the future are you projecting all that housing downtown?
Dear Curm...I am not assuming that a lack of pessimism is optimism...how assinine.
Pessimism could be taking a hard look at reality.
Curm, have you not heard the old saying in Ogden that it is 30 minutes to get from Ogden to SLC, but it takes 90 minutes to get from SLC to Ogden. Basically it means that people from Ogden have no problem going to SLC for whatever reason (shopping, dining, entertainment) but those in SLC (area) don't bother coming to Ogden, it is too far away. I don't see Frontrunner bringing anyone to Ogden for other reason other than commuters coming back home to Ogden. I don't think that residents of Davis County will even come to Ogden for shopping, dining, entertainment. Just my opinion on that.
Curmudgeon
I'm afraid your right about your projections of just what the Front Runner will do for and to Ogden.
I used to ride the train most every day from Grand Central to White Plains. About the same distance from Ogden to Salt Lake. It was all about people that lived in Westchester going to work in the city and home at night. During the day and on the weekends the trains ran mostly empty. It was very rare for some one from the city to go to Westchester for fun or shopping even tho there is a very big and fancy mall right by the White Plains station. I know that this is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges as SLC is no NYC for sure, but what I do see is that commuter rail is all about people living in the burbs and working in the city.
Besides, if people really would ride the Front Runner to Matt's Bowling alley and penny arcade, why wouldn't they just go a couple of stations more or less and get off at Lagoon? The Farmington station is going to be right next to Lagoon's entrance after all!
And Sharon, yes indeed I do fondly remember the Pike at Long Beach. Lot's of space, sailors and sleaze as well of tons of fun - and real bumper cars, not the chicken shit little imitation that Matt had installed. Oh, and the roller coaster was out of this world as well. Especially remember the cotton candy and the fake dead guy in the casket that ultimately turned out not to be fake but a hundred year old murder victim!
This bowling alley anchored mall was one stupid goof ball idea from the git go. It would never have been built except for lots of deception, arrogance, ego and public money. The wheels will fall off the damn thing within a year, or sooner if the true nature of the finances is revealed before then. Meanwhile the tax payers of Ogden will take it in the shorts for many years over this folly.
Rudi,
why don't you try even harder to marginalize Amy Wicks as a candidate for council. Are you serious -meet the gorgeous and brainy councilwoman/goddess in the flesh??????? I seriously doubt you would write something similar about a male candidate. meet the stunningly handsome and brainy Ron Smith, for instance. And by writing that Wicks is gorgeous and brainy you seem to be implying that the two don't normally go together. I thoroughly expect that my post will be dismissed as PC crap. But there you have it.
Bingo, Cato.
Uncle Rudi is old school; and he never bought into the "PC thing."
Crap? no.
Silly?" yes.
Rudi exclaims, "GAWD do we LOVE Emerald City Politics!!!"
GAWD, I thought you'd never ask.
Despite scurrilous attacks on Van Hooser by the Godfrey-Geiger party, this scene is tame compared to the mayoral election of 1879, when Lester Herrick deposed Lorin Farr. Two factions of the same pro-Mormon party went at it hammer-and-tongs, as reported by the SL Tribune:
"[Mormon] apostle Franklin D. Richards assumes to run Weber County by divine right, while the Farr family is ambitious to do the public service because there is money in it.
"Some two years ago ... the Richards favorites, generally composed of members of the Apostle's family, were foisted upon the people, but the Farr faction, an equally unscrupulous outfit, have continued to hold the city offices up to the present.
"[At the party convention] one Joe West [son of the Mormon presiding bishop] accused the [Farr] incumbents of being thieves and liars. The Third Ward alderman defended the [Farr] administration and accused Joe West of stealing hats at dance parties and trading them off to innocent puchasers. Others joined in the vituperative war of words, until the singular spectacle was presented of brethren, bound together in one 'covenant,' charging each other with crimes and offenses which constitute the real bond of their union."
Exactly right, Elder McConkie!
Thanks for the helpful history lesson.
MM-
This election has more of the flavor of the 1889 election when the once underdog Liberal Party led by Fred J. Kiesel trumped John Boyle of the Mormon-backed People's Party (many Liberal Party candidates were elected to fill County offices, too). It was an enormous event in Ogden's political history and brought about a much needed change. I'm confident this year's election will bring about a similar change.
Andy Howell-
Thanks for the post. It is too bad some people feel that the paper was trying to brush aside some local crimes (I didn't think so); however, I can't really blame them. The paper has had a very pro-Godfrey bias, IMHO, that leads people to think like that. I guess we'll see where the Standard really stands when they make their recommendation for Mayor. Meanwhile, I'll be at tomorrow's debate waiting to hear both sides and attempt to make an informed decision.
MM:
Not just Ogden. Mud-slinging is as American as apple pie. Way back in the late colonial period, the 1760s, when Ben Franklin led a party challenging the Penn family's control of the Pa. legislature, Franklin's opponents accused him of being a crook. His people fired back that his opponent had fathered a bastard child on an Indian woman. He fired back with a witness who swore Franklin, while a child, had stolen marbles on the playgound at recess.
Nobody was immune. During Washington's presidency, one opposition paper printed a letter claiming that during the American Revolution, Washington had been in the pay of England, that he was taking money to throw the revolutionary war --- now we know why there were all those retreats! --- and that the Revolution had not been won because of Washington but in spite of him.
And so it's been going for a long long time....
I picked up a small tidbit that may be of interest to some of you regarding lying little matty's plans for the front runner.
If true,(he told a luncheon of business folks's) I doubt very seriously people will be piling off the train to shop in Ogden.
What folks will be greeted by as they get off the train will be a Walmart, yes, eminant domain and gadi.
This would be the most short sighted blunder yet. All that potential paved under to provide parking for the sale of Chinese goods, and their American profiteers.
How many Walmarts are in the area all ready?
What could be the doorway to all downtown, unique shops and restaurants, no, a parking lot and a big ugly building.
Thank you, Reno and Curm, for additional pertinent political vignettes, both local and national. I'd love to see another Kiesel-type triumph in Ogden this year.
Thomas Jefferson also was reviled and ridiculed when he ran for president. He was accused of practically every evil deed known to man, including the most scurrilous of all - that he fathered children with a black slave woman!
Maybe Dian Woodhouse should have written a play about Sally Hemings instead of Elizabeth Keckley.
Post a Comment