By Curmudgeon
Yet another interesting Scott Schwebke story in this morning's Standard-Examiner. The story reports that the City Council just approved $750,000 in cost over-run payments for construction at The Junction. From this morning's story:
Three separate items each totaling about $250,000 have pushed The Junction over budget, he said.Two points: first, it's interesting to know that the Mayor and Council did not have a good handle on the cost of installing the Salomon Center's wind tunnel ride when they approved it. Since such rides were already in operation in other places, the ride hardly involved new [and unpriced] technology, so I'm a little hard put to understand why good numbers on installation costs were, somehow, not available to the Mayor and RDA Board. I know, all good construction budgets include an allowance for overages created by changes, price fluctuations and so on, an the overages at The Junction seem not out of line with what is usual for such projects. But the mis-guess on the wind tunnel ride part of it still puzzles me some.
Those items include the removal of buried fuel storage tanks and concrete from the site, construction change orders for work on a parking garage and higher than-expected expenses associated with installation of the iFly skydiving simulator in the Salomon Center.
When original cost estimates were developed for the high-adventure Salomon Center, the city did not have detailed specifications for the portion of the building that houses iFly, Harmer said.
The overruns are expected to exceed funding by less than 2 percent, which is reasonable for a project the size of The Junction, he said.
Second: the rationale for the city putting the taxpayers' money at risk underwriting The Junction construction bonds was that the various businesses going in there would bring new business to the city, create a "high adventure" recreation venue downtown to draw the multitudes to Junction City, and so forth. In light of which, it would be interesting to know how the wind tunnel ride is doing. Making a bundle and bringing in folks from all over the Wasatch Front? Barely making it's operating costs and serving mostly locals? Losing its shirt and not drawing flies? I know, I know, it's a private operation, but given the fact that the city backed the construction bonds for it, seems to me the public has not only an interest, but a right to know if its expectations are being fulfilled. Ditto for the surf ride.
I presume that, if the wind tunnel was going gangbusters, the owners and the Administration would not be shouting that from the rooftops. So the suspicion is that all is not going as well as was hoped. It would be nice to see some hard and fast numbers on this.
26 comments:
It's doubtful the Salomon is making nearly enough to justify the costs. Fortunately for Gold's, who hold the lease on the place. they do not have to pay for the amortization on the Flowrider or the iFly or the bowling equipment. They pay only to lease the premises which include the installed 5 MILLION DOLLARS of capital income producing equipment. Those things were handily paid for in full by our city and given free and clear to Gold's to make a business out of it. As a result, they are not open Sundays, which kind of defeats the purpose of a tourist draw or even local draw. You see, mayor, kids do frequent arcades and such...and ARE OUT OF SCHOOL on Sundays!!!
I see no reason why the city could not operate the iFly or the Flowrider being their unique and recreational nature they do not compete with any local businesses. As for the bowling alley, the city would compete with private biz so it would be inappropriate for them to run a bowling alley. Maybe if the city ran the place it could be forced to open Sundays. This half weekend closure nonsense is a reflection of the closed world these religious fanatics live in and this policy has only served to completely take any steam out of the reception to the Salomon and it's attractions. Sundays remain dead downtown. Riverdale is bursting with traffic. Is there something wrong in this picture. The train is coming in a couple of weeks. I wonder if the downtown businesses are even thinking of offering a matching discount to your train fare. Could the city underwrite such a discount to back up it's support of downtown. Of course many adventurous SLC folks will hop the train on a Sunday afternoon, even Mormons after service, to check out good ole downtown Ogden and see what all the hoopla is about, only to find the place shuttered.
Ah well Matt, you tried.
When the mayor says it is only 2% it does not sound like much till you realize that it is 2% of 27,000,000.00 of our hard earned tax money. If this project is doing so good. Lets us as taxpayer sell this building to fat cats and gold and wash our hands of the whole thing.
Tec,
Unfortunately, for the present, the train will not be running on Sunday. Yesterday's SE article mentioned that if there is enough demand, it will. My question is: if it isn't running, how will demand be evaluated?
The Mayor of Ogden is just a good garment wearing saint who is trying for all he is worth to make Ogden a better place to live and work.
He is for outdoor recreation and has built numerous supporting infrastructure to accomodate sports and sporting people.
How did he get the artwork sillouettes made for the underpass on I-15? I bet no one had to pay for that! And with the 27 or so nonprofit making parks and public facilities he is only trying to get the Ogden Valley Golf Course on a paying basis. So what is wrong with that?
Mayor Godfrey is a man who knows what he thinks and wants. And what he wants he gets it done. No matter how much it costs, whether it is ethical or legal, no matter how much it defies common sense, no matter whether a legitimate cost benefit analysis has even been done.
But then what would you expect from a man short in stature and tall on LDS institutionalist traditions.
Ogden is getting exactly what it supported and voted for...an idiot with no practical nor common sense, used to having been given too from birth, and therefore; like Huntsman, a spendthrift who uses your and my money to play games with to spice up his miserable lifestyle.
So suck it up Ogden. Developers and Realtors are running your City and the entire State and they don't much care about anyone but themselves and their "business interests".
Godfrey is not the root cause of your woes. He is merely a facilitator of those who are.
ogdenlover,
That is sad news. I was not aware of that limitation. I guess Utah will continue it's tradition of limiting itself in so many ways that the rest of the U.S. and the world moved away from way back in the Blue Laws days.
So they want to evaluate Sundays demand by the demand on the other days. I guess they do not understand the uniqueness of Sunday. Many people work 6 days and Sunday is their only day off. Sunday is also a day that non-religious carefree folk take advantage for the slow days at many attractions while the religious exercise restraint and devotion to mysticism and other ism's.
Thank someone on high for constraining these subservient masses. Without it everyday would be chaos on the highway. Unfortunately we can't enjoy also a quiet ride to SLC on a warm Sunday afternoon.
TEC:
UTA notes that when TRAX opened, there was no Sunday service, and now there is. Their argument is that operating FR for a while will allow them to gage demand for its services overall... if the trains are packed, good sign. If they run half empty, not so good. And from that information, they can make an informed decision about Sunday service sometime down the line. A reasonable argument, though I too wish they'd open with limited Sunday service. My idea was a morning train [both directions], a mid-day train [both directions] and an evening train [both directions]. Say Ogden and SL departures at 9:30 AM, 1:00 PM and 7:00 PM.
But I'm willing to give them some time and some slack to shake the kinks out, get the service running well, and to make a reasonable estimate on the demand for Sunday service.
Is my math fuzzy or is $750,000 approximately 3-4 YEARS of supposed Ogden Golf Course debt?
ogdenlover,
You're absolutely right. I propose that the city treat the Salmon Center the same way it has treated the golf course. So let's keep the $750,000 debt on the books, but of course the Salomon Center won't be able to pay off the debt, so it will accumulate interest and grow over time. Each year we will count this ever-increasing interest toward the Salomon Center's annual deficit. And after 20 years we'll finally declare a crisis, and propose that drastic measures be instantly taken: Either raise taxes city-wide, or float a bond to renovate the Salmon Center (thus raising taxes even more), or create a special assessment district around the Salmon Center to subsidize it (also raising taxes), or tear down the Salmon Center and let the land "go to seed". At least, those are the only options I can think of.
Regarding train service on Sundays: Ironically, it was religious folk who first prompted UTA to run TRAX on Sundays. They started the Sunday service for the LDS General Conference in downtown Salt Lake, when huge numbers of people needed to get downtown where there's a shortage of parking. But once the trains were running, others must have ridden as well, so the service became permanent. I see no reason why the same thing couldn't happen with the FrontRunner, in exactly the same way. Time will tell.
Oops, of course I mean Salomon, not Salmon.
of course, Dan. ;-)
I sensed there was something fishy about your comments.
LOL, Dan.
For a couple of minutes there, Dan, I thought you were being "snarky." I shoulda known better!
For my part, I believe "Salmon Center" is a possibly great descripton for "Godfrey's Folly," i.e, The Junction "money pit," which still has Boss Godfrey's incompetent fingerprints all over it.
It has the tell-tale odor of decomposing Salmon all over it too.
As gentle Curmudgeon suggested, Boss Godfey and his minions would be screaming thier success from the rooftops -- If these endeavors were in the sligthest way successful.
What's gonna happen this summer, BTW, when "somebody's" going to have to come up with an explanation of why the Salomon Center is such a major loser? Boss Godfrey will be forced to resign -- especially after his anticipated federal RICO indictments.
Have a nice day, people.
Never let it be said that I wasn't looking after your interests.
Dan S. and Ogdenlover:
You have not been attending math conferences for the last 35 years, so neither of you is qualified to do addition, subtraction, multiplication or division.
Curm,
Let's hope UTA views those trains as half full, rather than half empty. :o)
The only barometer we will ever see on the Salomon is whether Gold's and their sub-lessee, Fat Cat's, can stick it out. The level of business now is embarrassing. It'll pick up in the summer and with the train. If the city had put a performance clause into the lease they would have some revenue information that would be public.
It's too bad that the bill Hansen was pushing a year ago would have gone though. This is the one that would have called for an audit of the public private partnership. Then the taxpayers could see just what the hell is going on with our tax dollars. If I remember right Jesse Garcia fought the bill from going though. I guess he is not the watch dog we thought he was.
This is why Hansen should be our mayor.
Dear Ha Ha:
The election is over. The primary ended even earlier than that. Give it a rest.
If Rep. Hansen intends to reintroduce his bill, then tell us about that, and what the bill would do that you think ought to be done, and perhaps what chance it has for passage, and revisions in it that might make it more likely to pass. All those things matter going forward. But let's give the last election, and the primary before that, a rest for a while, ok? When a pro loses a primary, or an election, he... or she... picks himself up, dusts himself off, and gets back into the game. Rep. Hansen has done that. And if he can, you can... and should... too.
Tec,
The Soloman center business will not pick up in the summer. People do not go to indoor bowling, mini golf, flowriders, Ifly, climbing walls or arcades when they are on vacations, camping, fishing, and such doing some of the activities that are inside the Soloman center outside. I have been a bowler for 30 years and ask any bowling center operator how their summer business is and they will tell you it's 50% of what they make in the winter. People will go outside a play mini golf and it's going to cost a fortune to keep that facility cool. People sure as hell aren't going to ride a train to come up here to go bowling or any of the activities that are at the Junction. The worst is yet to come for the junction and Soloman Center.
Realistic:
The problem is, we're reduced to speculating about how well the Salomon Center is doing. Since it was built with the public backing the construction bonds, and since apparently the public bought and owns much of the equipment there [leasing it to the business operators], seems to me the public has both a reasonable interest [and it ought to have a right] in knowing how things are going, whether the facility and its occupants are meeting expectations.
I hope they are. I hope they're doing well. At a minimum, I hope they're meeting their costs and building, slowly, a clientèle that will move them solidly into substantial profit over the near term. But as an Ogden city ratepayer and so partial backer of the enterprise, I shouldn't have to guess and hope. I should know. So should you.
The only way the public, and the Council, and the Administration, can make good decisions going forward is on the basis of accurate information about projects already under way and how they are doing. Does not seem an unreasonable thing for the ratepayers to ask for --- information about how the investments made with their money are doing, and what the prospects are for the near and mid-term future.
Good Point, Curm,
Although the city technically has no access to Gold's records...
In the context of a city eager to expand on it's development agenda, we should have an idea on the Junction's performance to guage the wisdom of any further underwriting of private enterprise.
Can the city council demand a performance report on the Junction? from Gold's?
I hear that the Mayor is about to officially ask the City for money to build the ice tower since its RAMP funding was denied. We need real city services, not an expansion of our amusement park.
We need funds to upgrade water and sewer, not more money for a few elite recreation projects. Bring back the Spring Cleanup since the whole city would benefit and look better. How much revenue has the ski companies brought into the city coffers? Any high adventure manufacturing jobs, factory outlets, or just more talk and no action.
Curm,
I can tell you from experience that the Soloman center isn't doing that well. Again, I have been in the entertainment industry for years and the people that I have spoken to have not seen a decline in their own, similar businesses. I agree we should have a right to know how they are performing. From what I have seen and heard, they are not building a loyal clientele. People in today's market are not loyal to anyone. The people that I have spoken to are mad about the pricing, the type of individuals hanging out in the area and do not feel safe there. They are complaining about poor customer service. I feel that it will not be long until they are no longer able to make their lease payments especially when summer hits.
If you want to see how they are doing, go down there on any week day during the day or for that matter in the evening and count how many people are there actually spending a decent amount of money. From what I've seen it's mostly the arcade that is busy. The gym I understand is doing fine, but the rest of the facility other than the flow rider is not doing good
Realistic:
Your account matches several others that have been posted here, and I don't doubt the accuracy. However, since the business they may be doing [or not doing] may be episodic... strong at one time, all but deserted at another, the only way to get a certain, verifiable lock on how well [or badly] they are doing is to look at the numbers. And we both agree that for a facility so heavily supported by public funds as the Salomon Center was and is, the public should have the numbers provided to them. The books. We shouldn't have to rely on you or me or Tec or anyone else making trips down there to count heads now and then. In fact, it's the frequency of such reports as yours that make me want to see the numbers... the hard and fast numbers... even more.
That the city is subsidizing businesses in the Salomon Center that compete, directly, for the same customers with other Ogden businesses that are not being subsidized [and that in fact are being taxed to subsidize the Salomon Center businesses] is another whole matter. And a dicey one. If I were running a non-Godfrey subsidized health club or bowling alley, I'd be madder'n a wet hen I imagine.
You guys are all missing the point.
In a telephone conversation during his campaign, in early October 2007, Mayor Godfrey assured me personally that the Salomon Center will not fail. An excerpt from my recollection of the conversation, which went on for some time:
Me: What if the Salomon Center fails? Who ends up holding the bag?
Mayor: It won't.
Me: Humor me. What if it does?
Mayor: It won't.
Me: I'm sure the original developers of the Ogden City Mall said the same thing. What if it fails?
Mayor: It won't.
So, there you have it. It won't fail. You're all a bunch of naysayers. If the Mayor's Crack Economic Development team showed you the accounts, you naysayers would just pick the numbers apart -- and then it might fail. It's like Schrodinger's cat. Everything's in the balance until you look in the box -- and then, it's dead. Or not.
(That joke was for you, Dan S.)
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