Red-meat material for bean-counters
News is just a mite slow in Emerald City this morning, so we thought we'd set up an open topic thread. This is something we haven't done on Weber County Forum for quite some time; so today we'll let our gentle readers drive the discussion.
As a prelude to that, however, we'll highlight a couple a couple of northern Utah print media articles which report on a common topic, i.e., 2008 municipal budgets.
The first, from this morning's Standard-Examiner, reports on the 2008 Emerald City budget, which was approved at last night's council session:
Ogden approves $107M budget
The second, this morning's Deseret News article, discusses Salt Lake City's newly approved 2008 budget:
Salt Lake City Council adopts $202 million budget.
Being the curious type, we googled population data and did a few quick calculations. Using assumed population figures for Salt Lake City and Emerald City of 182,000 and 78,000 respectively, we find that Salt Lake City operates roughly 20% more efficiently than we.
Significantly, we think, the Salt Lake City budget provides for the hiring of six new firefighters and ten new police officers. And we can't fail to note that we don't hear Salt Lake City citizens griping about dirty culinary water. And while we recognize that our neighbor down south may benefit from some economies of scale which are unique to a more populous city, we don't know whether this accounts for what we think to be an apparent inefficiency gap.
These articles, both published this morning, cry out for our gentle readers' comparative analysis, we think.
Please feel free to dive in with your own comparisons... or... talk about whatever you want to talk about.
Before we turn the floor over, however, we'll also attend to a housekeeping matter. We received one reader report this morning that our blog comment pop-up window has been malfunctioning since late last night. If any other readers are having the same problem, we'd appreciate your notifying us via the "contact" link in the upper-right sidebar.
Take it away, folks!
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85 comments:
Without really analyzing both budgets I will say this -
The article you linked to in the Deseret News says: Still, the budget — which totals about $668 million when taking into account funds such as the airport, golf and library budgets.
I believe the Ogden budget is a
complete budget including golf courses, Dino Park, Airport.
So using the logic apparently applied, one might surmise that SLC government is much less effective.
But the truth is, you are not comparing apples to apples.
I see that Mayor Godfrey finagled "$200,000 to be reserved for a possible mass transit study along the busy corridor from downtown to Weber State University."
I'm sure the council expected that this money will be used to fund further study of streetcars and trolleys ("The gondola" is also mentioned).
Three guesses where this money will actually be spent.
Ogden's general fund is about $55 million compared to SLC which is about $200 million or about four times as much for about twice as many people.
SO THE MESSAGE IS THAT AS A COMMUNITY GROWS THE GOVERNMENT GROWS FASTER. SMALLER COMMUNITIES HAVE MORE EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT THAN LARGER ONES.
DUH!
And once again, Schwebke quotes Godfrey's misleading debt numbers, TWICE in the same article!!
Ogden city debt is almost 100 million, almost 5 times the figure Godfrey cites, most of which was added during his disasterous term in office.
Get your facts from someplace else, Scott, so you can report facts instead of Godfrey's campaign distortions.
We will never know where any City Budget stands financially until the figures furnished include ALL FIGURES.
It is incredible to me that a budget for any government entity does not include a separate RDA budget projection so that taxpayers know the whole financial story.
It is also incredible to me that the Utah Legislature has allowed the RDA sub-government of cities and counties in Utah to remain unaccountable to taxpayers for every dollar spent and every debt incurred.
NEVER....since RDA law was enacted has it been required by Utah Statute that citizens be furnished an annual audit of what is being done by the Redevelopment Agencies as far as the financial figures are involved.
We try to find out by GRAMA requests and other means but we are never given the true status of what goes on within the RDAs. If we are lucky we can get the RDA debt figures in the annual city audit or sometimes via a GRAMA request but the City Audit is only issued in December every year for the fiscal year that ends the prior June.
Even more icredible is the Utah State Auditor's practice of NO Audit on any city nor county's RDA financial activities.
This is like a marriage in which the wife has a credit card which she can use, at will, with no limit, but is never accountable to her spouse for debt she is incurring which ultimately is his legal resonsibility as well.
How long are we dumb taxpayers going to ignore what is being done to us by our elected officials who are presumed to know what they are doing to protect our interests!
We need to clean out the Utah statehouse along with the majority in Congress who continually waste time introducing and passing stupid bills instead of taking care of the real business of government and the use of OUR MONEY.
And don't tell me we can fix it at the ballot box...that will never happen in Utah because of the method we use in choosing candidates for office!!
With respect to the $200,000 set aside for a transit study: the money was put in the budget over the objections of Mayor Godfrey, who said it was unnecessary, claiming as I recall that he had already arranged for a UTA funded feasibility study. That turned out to be nothing of the sort, but the report of a SLC financial analysis firm of figures it was given by the Administration, and told not to examine, not to challenge, not to investigate, but simply to accept as given. The firm was very careful to state in the resulting report that it had not done a feasibility study for transit or the golf course sale and private gated community development or the gondola [either one] or the Malan's Basin resort, nor had it examined any market study looking into the economic feasibility of any of those projects.
I found it interesting that the Mayor said, as noted by Mr. Schwebke for the SE, that he had no objections to the money being set aside, provided it wasn't spent until after the county voted on a transit tax this fall. Two things worth noting: (a) the mayor seems to have said in effect, "the council can appropriate money for a rail transit feasibility study until the cows come home, but it cannot be spent without my agreement. Which I don't intend to give." And (b) the Mayor has now taken the remarkable position of saying "the voters of Weber County should vote on the transit tax and then we can go ahead and spend the money an alternatives analysis transit study." Common sense would seem to suggest that the order should be reversed: do the alternatives analysis [looking, to appease Hizzonah, at the two options already deemed feasible by the Wasatch Front Regional Council --- trolley transit to WSU and McKay Dee or BRT transit over the same route --- and Hizzonah's pie in the sky "gondola" which the WFRC study rejected as a feasible transit option] so that voters will have the information on which they can base an informed decision.
Come to think of it, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Hizzonah's preferred MO is "vote first, get the facts later." It would be my MO too if I knew, as suspect the Mayor does, that the facts are not on his side, and that his only hope is to arrange to have the key decisions on his obsession ["gondolas here, gondolas there, gondolas gondolas everywhere!"] made before people learn the facts of the matter and just how high he has piled the pie into the sky.
I am flying to Ogden from LA to be present at the Grand Opening of the new Rec Center, and since we have exchanged ideas, and some barbs in the past, I want to invite you to say hello to the “limp wrested fey untalented outsider” who has promised to take the bon mots of the bloggers and turn them into a commercial mini series called THE BARITONES … with characters based on you … Sharon, Ozboy, Curm, Dan, Monotreme, Lionel, HaHaHa etc. I mean could I do any better?
I will be wearing a yellow silk shirt, have a baseball cap on it with Bizazz Media on it, and an affectation that should be worth pages on your blog… a blue scarf around my neck. Come up and say hello, and be assured, I am going back to LA for the weekend..
Right on Producer, See ya there...
Looking forward to a face to face. I'm excited to tour the new facilities. Too bad the flowrider is only going to be in Demo mode or I'd challenge you to a little surf action. Wish you'd stay longer Rupe, let's take a hike up to Malan's, we can see first hand where 200, 300, or 400 condos will not fit and where your children could get creamed on some overcrowded 188 acre ski slopes. I'd also love to show you a few of the fabulous resorations going on around Ogden by folks who did not move here for the gondola and could care less about it. While were at it let's play golf at MO, were your grubbies cause it ain't no country club...yet. We like Ogden just the way it is and so should you if you pulled yourself out of the SoCal traffic now and then and actually learned to chill here. Instead you and your buddies come here and wonder what's up with this sleepy town near a ski area sd wish there were more McMansions and more private golf and more Starbucks and more freeways and gondolas to nowhere. You people need to learn to settle down. C'mon Rupe, pull up a lounge chair and hang a while. I'll roll up a fatty for us and crack open a cold one. It's Ogden, what's the rush to get back to L.A.
Anyone notice in the draft study done by someone or some entity unwilling to take credit that...
Phase one of the gondola is the downtown to WSU leg followed by the rest. isn't this totally out of sequence. No way they would build the town gondola before building anything else. Wasn't selling the golf course AND the homes a prerequisite to generate the necessary capital to build it. It would stand to reason that the first gondola to be built would be the one to Malan's thus allowing access to begin that development. Building a gondola to nowhere first would place it's amortization several years ahead of the rest of the project jeapordizing cash flow and ensuring failure. These guys seriously have a problem with timeline.
Stats!
Ahem!
The reason that the SLC airport, golf course, library system ( and other items) are NOT included in the SLC "general Fund Budget" is because they are NET REVENUE PRODUCERS -- and separate self-funding agencies.
Thus they are not listed as expense items in the very lean SLC General Fund Budget.
Which takes us back to our original premise, that Big Spender Boss Godfrey's gummint is only 80% as efficient with our tax dollars as the one run by Emerald City Homeboy Rocky Anderson.
Sheesh!
Don't forget to get back to us with your claimed apples/oranges dismissal.
When you strip the article of the concepts that the poor Deseret News reporter didn't fully understand, the Budget of Ogden City still comes up as 20% less efficient than our larger sister city down south.
Rudi:
Hmmmm.... Salt Lake City, with a Democratic Mayor is far more efficient, you say, than Ogden City with a Republican Mayor?
Imagine that. And here I thought Republicans liked to campaign on the grounds that they knew how to run a business, and so would be far more efficient managers of public budgets than all those allegedly wild-spending Democrats. Why, wasn't too long ago I recall Republicans telling us that G. Bush would be the "CEO president," who would end all those terrible Democratic deficits.... And we know how that one turned out. What he ended was the Clinton achieved balanced budget. Imagine that.
Seems to me the solution you are recommending is to elect Democrats to executive offices. Salt Lake City was smart enough to do so and got an efficient city budget and government as a result. Ogden wasn't and didn't. Will Ogden voters be shrewd enough to learn from their mistake in November? We can only hope....
Once again, I offer you safe conduct across the political battle lines into the Weber County Democratic Party. I can guarantee safe conduct. I know people....
Rupert/Bizazz:
Very glad you'll be here. Please bring your entire entourage, it takes loads of $25 entrance fees to break even!
Well Rupee, at least we have something in common! We are both hoping for the success of the Junction. I am a bit concerned however, I walked through the place today and it seems like it is still a major construction zone. It was a beehive of activity and I hope they can pull it off in three days.
It's actually a pretty cool looking place, at least the part that is nearing completion.
I'll look for the dandy in the yeller silk shirt and blue scarf, I'm sure you will stick out in the Ogden crowd.
I'll bring my little fag buddy just to make sure we spot you! Are you going to be giving any screen tests or casting couch interviews? He's pretty cute, I think you might like him, he's got a cute butt.
By the way, is your pal Gadi going to show up? Will his parole officer let him travel this far? He is out of the slammer isn't he? Can we check his ankle braclet out if he shows up?
Hate the mayor, love the Junction! Show up and support Ogden...
HAVE YOU HEARD THE LATEST--
Gadi has an LLC and is buying or trying to buy up property in the proposed River Development
but
the interesting part is that one of his stockholders is none other than Mayor Godfrey's uncle, Greg Montgomery, who is the City Planning department head who pushed through the new zoning for the River Project just the week before --
Only in Ogden--
Oz:
Hope it goes well too. I won't be there since I don't have much interest in surfing [we didn't do much at Coney Island in da Brooklyn of my yout'], nor the climbing wall. My bowling days ended long ago, and I can see a first run movie for less than 25 bills that will get me into a non-first run movie Friday night.
Of course, I am curious about all the exercise equipment in Gold's Gym because, I am informed, the city bought the equipment and leases it [along with the premises] to Gold's gym. I hope lots of Ogdenites check out the stairmasters and such like, since unless I'm mistaken, they paid for all of it with the public's money.
I will hit the theaters later on when something interesting comes in. And will use the free popcorn coupon just received in the mail. [Thank you Mr. Miller.] Have to say I'm a little leery about folks bringing their dinners into the theaters on trays. There is enough noise in theaters already and all that eating [not to mention spilling] seems to me likely to just make things noisier. I usually hit the first showing on Sunday AM to avoid crowded theaters and having to listen to the yakkers talk over the film. [When I become Ubergruppenfuhrer for North America under the New World Order, people who talk in movies will be sent to re-education camps in Dbrovnik. People who carry on cell phone conversations in theaters will be shot.]
So I have my doubts about providing TV dinners [so to speak] to theater goers, but I'll give it a chance or two. If it's too disruptive, there's always the Cinemark metroplex at the Mall I can retreat to. And am downright eager about the promised programing on one or two screens of non-mass market films [like, say "Rabbitproof Fence"] which I've got to, as a rule, drive all the way to SLC to see.
As for all the construction... hell, not a big deal from my POV. The place is opening in stages. Complaining that constructions sites not yet complete look like construction sites doesn't seem like much of a gripe to me.
I do have one question: Envision Ogden is selling the tickets to the Friday night event. What's happening to the money? Is it going to Envision Ogden? To some charitable organization? Cui bono? Just curious.
But I wish the Junction well. And I hope the Mayor's estimates on the tax revenues we can expect from The Junction in two years are way off. I hope the actual revenues are higher.
We shall see....
What gives with Envision Ogden's selling bracelets with Envision Ogden on them for $25.00 to buy access to the grand opening at the Junstion?
A check with the Utah Dept. of Commerce shows no corporate papers have been filed but Envision Ogden has a website envisionogden.org so they are representing that they are an organization.
Another check with City Hall says they don't know anything about the $25.00 bracelets so who is getting that money???????
And do they have an Ogden City license to market the bracelets? Who gave them permission or is this Godfrey's private business scheme -
BUT WHO IS GETTING THE DOUGH - ?
Oh golly Mr. Hollywood is coming to town. Tell me this Rupert, being a friend of Matt, will you be paying your own airfare, or will I? After the contribution you made with your groundbreaking Afro-centric documentary on our police department, “Copz n’ da Hood,” plus the way Godfrey throws tax money at his friends, I would think the city would be paying for your stay.
Oh, and don’t let me forget the movie you made where it says Godfrey knows how to do business, and he’s talking to “Stripes” Leshem, with Geiger talking about the little bird that sings here in Ogden alongside the monkeys that fly out of his butt, and CP talking about how nice Ogden is, except he lives in Sandy and never sets foot here. Are all four of you going to show up? What a party!
And as far as your sitcom about the posters on the WCF, how come you didn’t mention meeeeee? Is it because Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Tom Cruise are the only ones who could be suitably cast for my part and they are too expensive for the shorts you shoot? Just mention my name to them the next time you see them, when you’re waiting tables at that place you work when your between projects, like you’ve been since Jaws 3D, twenty years ago.
Have fun and say “hi” to everyone. It’s just so dull here when you’re gone.
Dear Producer...
If it's really you, I have to tell you I saw an interview with Tony Hopkins in the last few weeks. He talked about his upcoming movie commitments and he did not mention being under contract to you to play me on the silver screen. You can't leave casting to the last minute, you know....
how much will it cost to park in the parking terrace? or will the wrist band cover that? just who is envision ogden? how much did they pay to rent the new buildings that us taxpayer own? why doesn't the newspaper ask these questions? i thought they were suppose to ask these questions!! Why does the mayor allow people that don't live in ogden city run our government? why does the mayor think that he can do anything he wants to? when is the mayor going to announce that he will stand up because i can't see him!!!!
A search shows Preston McConkie to be the webmaster for envisionogden.org.
More interesting is that the domain name: ENVISIONOGDEN.ORG is owned by Aaron Spurlock of TechnovationDesign, Inc. 1100 Country Hills Dr., Ste 118, Ogden, 801-627-2866;
e-mail address is aaron's@technovationdesign.com.
The domain was sponsored by Go Daddy Software, Inc.
Now the big question remaining is who is getting the $25.00 for bracelets being sold for admission to the grand opening for Ogden City's Junction gala------And why?
The money for the entrance fee at Friday nights gala grand opening should rightfully go to the merchants that own the businesses. Those being Larry Miller, the fat guy from Golds, the skinny guy from Fat Cats and the owners of the world class Mexican and Pizza joints. I would also guess that they are the people behind the Envision Ogden organization which appears to be a joint marketing effort.
I'm interested to know if the above merchants are going to start paying rent to their land lord the city as of Friday?
Also when the hell is Boyer going to start construction on their part of the whole deal? Other than the building on the corner of 24th, there hasn't been a spade of dirt turned.
It is also curious that nothing has been done to start the Earnshaw condo's that every body made such a big deal about with their representations of being all sold out more than a year ago.
Incidently the parking structures that contributed to the death of the old mall, and was a big concern of lots of people in town, are looking pretty good with the additons and re-work they did. Hopefully it won't stigmatize the whole project like so many of us have feared.
Hate the mayor, love the city, support the Junction!
You don't have to be a corporation to sell bracelets. Nor file anything with the state. You might have to have a business license with the city though. I know you have to have one to sell beads at Farmers Market.
So Rudi from what you are inferring then, Ogden Golf Courses, Airports, and other lose money? Honest question.
Also I would ask, wh don't you break the budgets down then by governement, public safety, planning, etc. nd show me that they are apples to apples. Because so far I've seen several different figures trown around 55 mil, 107 mil, 202 mil and 605 mil. I'm supposed to take your word that you are the budget expert for city budgets?
So Cedar City with ther 20,575 population and $16 mil budget must be the envy of everyone in the state as they are 100% more efficient than Ogden.
Break it down Rudi, support your statements.
Just:
I think the parking structure for The Junction provides free parking. Or so I understand. If anyone knows otherwise, pls post.
If you google EnvisionOgden.org you'll get their website which talks about the group, and lists its officers.
I presume the various business owners at the Junction agreed to provide the discounts for the wristband promotion. It couldn't work otherwise. Just as I presume Envision will pay sales taxes on the proceeds to the city. Who gets what's left? I don't know. This could be simply a fund-raiser for Envision Ogden or the money could be promised to some charitable organization. Or be distributed, at least in part, to the various vendors. I have no idea, but somebody should know. Look, I don't think anything nefarious is necessarily going on here --- organizations involve merchants in fund raisers all the time. I'm just curious about where the proceeds will end up, that's all.
The only thing I find a little odd is the posting about by someone who says they queried City Hall about the wristbands and were told City Hall knows nothing about them. That's a little vague. I wonder who, exactly, "City Hall" was in this instance.
BTW, the movie complex opens to the public on 15 June I think, a week before the official gala opening. An opportunity to check it out before the gala, if the theater complex is the main draw for you [as it is, so far, for me].
The question is who is paying for the costs of the Grand Opening??????
curm -
Haven't you accepted that everything our Ogden Mayor Godfrey has a hand in turns out to be "nefarious"?
Oz:
'Fraid we'll have to disagree again. [That's ok. Life --- and blogs --- get downright dull when everyone goes around thinking and saying the same things.]
You wrote:
Hate the mayor, love the city, support the Junction!
Well, no. Not "hate the mayor." Call him to account. Oppose his policies when they are ill considered and unsupported by fact and evidence. Challenge his statements and assumptions. Ask questions --- including embarrassing ones when you think necessary --- and demand answers. And remove him from office if you conclude he's done his job badly or unethically or even he's done it well, but another candidate will do it better. But that's what, pretty much, we ought to be doing with all public officials, from Dubya on down to city officials. But hate? No.
As for "support the Junction." Well, the Junction is a conglomeration of businesses, which are going to have to sink or swim on their own. I wouldn't patronize one of them I would not otherwise patronize just to "support the Junction." It's not like being asked to be "true to your school" and to "support the Fighting Sandcrabs" or whatever by buying band candy or a discount book. They're going to have to make it on the basis of services offered for value received, like any other business.
Ah, Curm, your fairness doctrine is, well, stultifying and even a bit boring! Take a stand once...and stick with it. We all know you're a nice guy, just don't always 'nice' up everything someone else says. Thanx.
Sam Spade, just who do you think is paying for the grand opening? And we'll get to pay for (them) over and over as each little piece is finally constructed.
Fey Rupert......you haven't asked each of us who will be featured in your Ogden movie, if we will be at the Junction....and, you haven't asked what WE'LL be wearing. P'raps you're just hoping we'll walk up and curtsy to you?
Back to the budget. I'm floored that the CC gave that loon our $200,000. We all know the conclusions of the WCFRC....the gondola came in third...with the trolley being first!
Any of us who have followed this with even a lazy eye knows that. Numbnutz does too and now he disingenuously purrs that he really doesn't want it...and he WANTS the voters to take this up at the polls.
Puhleeze...hand me a barf bag! How could the CC fall for that? What's his game? Does he have a feral scent that the jig's about up and he best be backtracking now?
Danny...did you ask Rupert who is buying his plane ticket? Ask him to show you proof of purchase(r).
Maybe Curt bot it. He paid for the gondola at the Newgate, hanging at the mall, and the flyers outside CC chambers...or so we were told.
I hope thousands show up to climb the 50 ft wall (thot it was supposed to be 80 ft?), surf, glide and go to the show! WE have so much invested in this place that I really do hope it succeeds.
Thank you, Dorothy, for once again being the postess with the mostess.
how much money has the dinosaur park made since it opened? maybe we should sell it to chris peterson so he can have rafting down the river! yipee all the way to the bicycle shop so we can pump our little legs back to the dinosaur park and do it all over again.
Wow ... I thought you all had a sense of humor, but no ... you lower yourself with your entries to the lowest common denominator. Too bad.
Tonight, with my beautiful wife of many years, I had a wonderful dinner to celebrate our anniversary, but this is the best retort that one of yours could answer to my invite to meet this Friday in Ogden ...
"I'll bring my little fag buddy just to make sure we spot you! Are you going to be giving any screen tests or casting couch interviews? He's pretty cute, I think you might like him, he's got a cute butt."
His byline is Ozboy, and he is one of yours ... make you proud to have such an elevated discourse?
Good Night ...
Rupie,
I just got in from Salt Lake City!
I can't tell you how excited I am to read your letter and learn that YOU are coming to Ogden! This is way cool.
Our grand opening will be, like, really grand.
Of course, it won't be anything like the grand opening of your movie with all the cool people of Ogden.
I didn't see my name mentioned by you. I hope that was just an oversight? Because you KNOW I am really really talented. I am simply dying to get out of this one-horse town and show the world, or at least, you, what I can do!
Since you are wearing a yellow shirt to the opening, I've decided to wear a yellow silk blouse! Is that cute? I will also wear blue high heels (hope I don't break my neck walking around that dump of a mall)...but you and I will be color coordinated, and we will know each other when we see each other across the crowded lobby. When I read what you are wearing, I took it as a sign that you wanted ME to know how to recognize you!
Oh, that is, like, sooooo romantic! I have little squiggles all up and down my spine! Do you?
Rupie, please look for me, I will be looking for you! If you want, I could come to your room and do a reading or something.
Rupie,
Oh Poo! I just read that you are married!! Why didn't you tell me...US, that before?
Do you still want to auditon me? You being married and all won't change my feelings about letting you see how talented I am.
I'm still going to wear my yellow blouse and blue shoes...I hope your wife isn't the jealous type. Is she?
Just so you know...I have met Mr Ozboy. He's a patron of the arts and we've had occasion to talk sometimes. He's very nice, and actually very smart too.
I'll ask him to wear HIS yellow shirt too...we can all have a really swell time together!
Hugs,
Lola
Ah come on Curmudgeon, you know how hard the little prick works to have us hate him. Then when we do you want to make him waste all that effort by snatching it away from us with this infernal fair play bull shit you are so hung up on. Godfrey don't play fair, so why should we? Fair is just some silly crap they teach in high falutin colleges anyway. Since when did any politician ever play fair, especially the tyrant on nine!
Besides, I was just trying out a new slogan for hell's sake! Apparently you don't like it any more than the Geiger's don't like it! (I'm guessing on them not liking it, maybe they love it!) They do seem to love to hate and hate to love any one who don't love their idiotic Gondola scheme.
So what about these:
Love the midget, hate tyrant.
Pump at Golds, Pimp at Godfreys.
Beer at Sal's, KoolAid at Matt's.
Screw the Junction, it will never function.
Well, you get the idea, don't you?
In any event, there aint nothin you can say that is going to deprive me of the pure joy of despising the lying little arrogant bastard. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
By the way, are you going to be able to buy a beer at the Junction?
You can at the Gateway, and the Junction is Gateway light. Just curious, I don't drink cause it makes me mean!
how many of you caught the little one lyng on channel 5 tonight. he said that this high adventure center is the only one of it's kind in the county. hey mayor how about the one in denver. what a drip, that every thing he does is the only one in the country. when is he going to tell the truth? how about it mayor? the truth, just the truth.
Yo Rupert
What do I have to do to make you love me, steal eleven million from the state and throw you a few crumbs to make a few crumby little low grade marketing films?
If your wife is so great, what's she doing with a phony no talent hack like you? And when did you ever pull your head out of the swindler's ass long enough to know she is beautiful anyway?
Just what we need in Ogden, a talentless sycophant coming up here in a yellow silk shirt to teach us how to be important. "Producer" my ass, how silly and self absorbed would some body from a town full of real producers have to be to call themselves that, especially with your track record?
We've got your number Rupee, we ain't impressed with your royal phonyness. As far as I'm concerned you can keep your sorry ass in that porn capitol of Chatsworth that you like to pretend is Hollywood.
Matthew Godfrey, the mayor of Ogden, says, "There's nothing like this anywhere in the country." When asked if there was a risk with this kind of project, Godfrey replied, "Absolutely. But the payoff is to have a mall project that will have retail and all of the components to attract the larger community."
yep. he did lie. look at denver
What kind of a name is Rupert? Does he have a twin named PRE_VERT?
here it is, look at this mayor and close your mouth when you speak.
http://www.skyventurecolorado.com/
O boy I can't wait to blow my wad on this two minute sky ride. yipee.
Just $48.00 for 2 whole minutes, that is a great bargin. look here and clean out your bank account.
Maybe we could get Rupert to give us the hands on training.
Flight Ticket - Your introduction to the SkyVenture experience
$48.00
Your first flight experience includes your training session, use of all the flight gear, two - one minute flights for a total of two minutes of flight time in the tunnel, hands-on personal assistance from your instructor and a flight certificate. In your first flights you will learn the basic freefall position.
You can come by yourself or bring a group of friends to observe or fly too, be forewarned if they don't fly they will be sorry they did not.
First Class Package - For people who can't get enough
$90.00 what a deal!!!!!!
This package is the same as our Flight Ticket, but has twice the flying time, two - two minute flights for a total of four minutes! This extra time gives you the opportunity to fully experience the freedom of flight. It also comes with a memory DVD of your flight experience.
With this package and double the flight time you should start to learn some of the basic bodyflying maneuvers and soon feel in control.
Who said that there is a sucker born every minute. Godfrey maybe that very sucker for putting this thing in, at taxpayer expense.
Sharon:
The CC did not "give" the Mayor 200K. It placed 200K in the budget earmarked for an alternatives analysis of the downtown to WSU-McKay Dee route, which study ha to happen before federal funds to construct either the trolley line or a BRT line can be arranged. The Mayor, if you recall, at a Council work session, opposed including money for that in the budget. It is not 200K for the Mayor to do with as he pleases.
And I've taken, as I recall, a lot of stands on public issues here. Taking stands on matters in no way requires abandoning every attempt to be fair in discussing them. Being fair is a good thing in public discussion, not the opposite of "taking a stand" at all.
Oz:
Beer at Sal's, KoolAid at Matt's.
Now that's a slogan I can get behind, though we need to remember what "drank the cool aid" has come to mean after Jonestown....
Beer at the Megaplex? Don't know. But, considering the quality of what Hollywood churns out these days, partially anesthetizing yourself with a brew or two before the curtain goes up is probably not a bad idea.
ozboy
ya must drink a lot since you say it makes ya mean cuz your mean a lot.
Does anybody know if the buildings that Gold's Gym (25th and Jefferson, old Weber Gymnasium) and Wells Fargo (historic old First Security Bank Building on se corner of 24th and Washington) are currently occupying have tenants lined up for use once the aforementioned businesses move out and into the Junction? I've heard some talk and rumor, but nothing bona fide. It seems to me that the continual use of these old buildings surrounding the mall site is just as important as filling up these newer ones. I hope the new buildings in the mall site does more than just relocate Ogden businesses into the new site and leave their old buildings vacant. A positive plus a negative does not equal a positive.
Jill,
Shuffling tenants from OLD buildings into the NEW is rather like movie goers plunking down their money at Miller's and leaving Tinseltowne to gasp for life. Both are in Ogden!
Bowling alleys fit in the same category also. Build a Fat Cats (on our backs) and the established alleys watch their lanes empty. Circulating money, not creating new, is Godfrey's sound financial expertise.
Curm....c'mon...the mayor SAID, 'don't give me that money for my gondola study'...and you believe that? I wish you were on the council for two reasons....other than that you are a smart civi-minded man. One....you'd have your eyes opened to the manipulations and chicanery of his outfit and two, you are so 'thotful' and always looking at both sides of every issue...that your deliberations would finally get the council to 'table' many agenda items. Now, that would 'be a good thing'...as many items do need more deliberation by the council...some to be tabled for further study, and some to be voted OUT into outer space from whence they came.
So, hope you run, Curm. I'll put up your signs.
omigosh! I'll probably get another dose of invective from the usual Amen Choir.
Ozboy...your slogans are right on, as usual!
I'm planning to go to the show at Miller's, but the movies playing now are so unappealing!
Hope Larry books some first rate shows in there. He may want to dedicate two screens to the unusual and interesting shows we can catch at the Broadway. Those movies don't seem to play in Weber County, or if they do, it's for a very short run. Again, I use "The Rabbit Proof Fence" as an example.
I see that the Avalon on State Street in SLC is closed. A shame. Popcorn and drinks were reasonably priced and they screened wonderful old black and white films there. "Suspense" with Joan Crawford, and "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" with Joan and Bette Davis.....real on the edge of your seat thrillers without blood, gore and car crashes.
Sometimes they'd show something making the rounds at the time.
Anyway, it would be fun to see some of the classics from early Hollywood and other countries' fare. And, some movies that aren't R rated would be a huge draw.
Here's one to look up.
Is it lawful for the mayor to just hire is brother in law. I thought this is called nepotism.
ozboy, your comments are pretty tasteless. What the hell, lots of these comments here are very negative.
I have learned a lot from reading this board, but some of the comments in this thread are a total turnoff.
Ogden Fan:
You wrote: I have learned a lot from reading this board, but some of the comments in this thread are a total turnoff.
Agreed. On both points.
Ogden Fan and Curm:
I'll chime in and agree with you both.
Rudi:
I wish you'd tighten up the enforcement of your comment policies. Thanks.
LOL, Dan.
You oughtta see the stuff that I delete!
In truth, however, your blogmeister will have to concede that he's been overly-lax in Posting Policy/Terms of Service enforcement over the past coupla weeks.
Whether you've noticed it or not, this website has undergone a major overhaul during the past seven days. We've installed a brand-new template, transferred service to the new xhtml-based Blogger 2 server, and have been busy working out the inevitable bugs and tweaks.
Getting the new software up and running, shall we say, has been a serious distraction for us.
And to our regular posters we say this: We anticipate a spike in new readership, as the November election approaches. Many of these new readers will be unfamiliar with the rough and tumble ways of the blogosphere. We thus request that you all be on your best behavior. We'd like to provide a thoughtful and user-friendly environment for our political discussions, and we cetainly don't want our venturesome new readers to be "turned off."
And if any of you would care to direct your blogmeister's attention to any comments which you find to be particularly problematic, please drop us a note via our upper-right sidebar link.
While we lean toward providing a free-speech friendly environment, and censorship goes particularly "against the grain" for us, we will henceforth be particularly attentive to comments which we deem to be over the top.
I think we need to lighten up....play some golf, go for a walk, take nap, visit a shut-in and stop this slide into prissiness.
Ozboy can be a tad over the top with his'phraseology'. and Jason too. Both have taken chastisement to heart.
Let us not lose our collective sense of humor. Ozboy writes some very funny stuff sometimes that should be published in other venues for others to enjoy also.
Let's , (as Curm often pleads) 'just all get along'.
Ohh c'mon, guys, let's not be such pussies. At least we're not douchebags.
What?
I'm nuts, remember?
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
Curmudgeon
I did in fact have the Jim Jones and Jonestown tragedy in mind with the "KoolAid at Matt's" slogan!
I find the Godfrey - Godfreyite relationship eerily similiar to the whole Jones phenomenon. A demented self absorbed leader and a blindly following group of zombies that will suspend believe in all that is rational and follow him blindly, even to the point of killing themselves to please him.
As to the rest of you who seem to be offended by the shots I took at the phony Rupert last night, I apologize for exposing your delicate sensibilities to the aggresive banter that I learned in the parking lot of Ogden High all those years ago.
But common, the disingenuous punk asked for it when he took a shot at my apparently ill advised attempt at humor! Oh, he also started the "fey" thing on this thread with his own lame attempts at being funny.
A "producer" in a silk shirt indeed!!!
I repeat Curmdgeon - Support the Junction any way you can. Ogden's financial future depends on the thing working.
And for you disbelievers, No, I don't drink cus it does make me dumb and mean just like everbody else. What you see here is just the sober loveable Danite me! Attack the punks, protect the kittens and help old ladies across the street...
Rudi alluded to all the new bloggers he anticipates will join us as the November election approaches. Maybe this is a good time to inquire after some of the Golden Oldie bloggers -- where are Mercy, Centerville Citizen, Arcritic, Copperpenny, Realtor-on-Deck, and others who have livened this corner of cyberspace in the past? Come back! You're missed.
MM
I suspect there are a lot of lurkers, which is fine. Lurking is an ancient [over three years old... which is ancient in cyberspace] and honorable tradition on the web.
alright, alright...I am so darned busy trying to keep up with Scwebke's reporting of the affairs os state, doing the laundry, and watering the roses, that I haven't had time to get on here.
I do read your comments though. Then I dash away, dash away to send a fax to our senators and president on immigration! Have you?
It is so wearying to keep an eye on the world and have to worry about Ogden too.
I'm relieved to see that MM, Dan, Oz, Curm, and others are watching the little emporer. What will his tailors have him decked out in for the Junction Grand Opening?
I got a kick out of the producer chiming in. Is he in town? He must have a laptop that he brings with him. He seems to only post here when he's in town. I'm sorry that I won't get to meet him standing so resplendently in his yellow silk shirt!
If it reaches 99 degrees...he'll melt away.
Those of you planning to attend the Junction Function (Good title, eh?)...please go meet him, introduce yourselves and tell him I'm ready for the first reading of the script!
I will chime in with others here who really do want Ogden's Junction to succeed. I can't attend the festivities...but as noted before, we are all heavily invested (for a couple decades) in this project, so I do want it to be a money magnet.
From what I read on here, I can't understand how the hang glider and surf will bring in much revenue. Who can afford to play on those things? They aren't in my family budget and I'll wager that not many families can afford to play there more than once either ( if even once). But, let us hope that all the sexy, cool and rich Paris Hilton groupies will flock here and throw down the big bucks!
BTW...this Envision outfit...what's with the $25.oo dollar bracelets? Their supporters are silent. It would be lovely if the money went to fund our inner city kids having pool passes, or a week at a day camp this summer!
Wouldn't that be a nice humanitarian gesture in Ogden?
Godfrey is showing us how elitist he really is. (Didn't we already guess that over the moving of St Anne's fiasco?) Obviously, inner city folks, our poorer Hispanic neighbors, and low income types, and those on fixed incomes (myself included) won't be able to afford a taste of the festive food, fun and frumpery at the Junction!
But, the mayor's cronies, sycophants, H'wood 'producers', and Lift Ogden business persons will be invited to rub elbows with the elitist entreprenuers.
Mr. Godfrey has demonstrated his disdain for the common folk. Who does he think will keep the Junction afloat? After the novelty wears off, the commoners are the ones who will be shoppers, diners, and movie goers on a regular basis. Other than Disneyland and other 'tourist' dependent attractions; it's just the good old common every day citizenry who keep the towns afloat.
If Mr. Godfrey gets too uppity about the commoners overrunning the Junction, he should know that most have cars to drive to Layton, Riverdale and SLC. Others will take the bus.
But, for now, we will welcome all the swells and hope they are spending their OWN money!
By the way, I hope you all read the good editorial in the SE today. It's entitled "More Gondola Chewables." Link here.
And absolutely do not miss the wonderful Calvin Grondahl political cartoon that accompanies it. The cartoon is in black and white in the print edition, but in full glorious color on the SE website [free portion]. Link
Text here.
Oh, by the way... the SE editorial reminds me that so far as I know, we still do not know who paid for the study the SE discusses in its editorial. The Mayor insisted he did not know. UTA says they did not.
I wonder if the SE could sic Mr. Schwebke or some other enterprising news ferret on that question, which should be very simple to answer: who wrote the check for the study? I suspect it's probably Ogden City, but it would be nice to know for sure. Maybe they could ask the Mayor again. I notice, reading the NYT this week, that Republican appointees who "can't recall" a lot when questioned by Senate Committees seem to have a miraculous recovery of memory when questioned by special prosecutors. Maybe Hizzonah has remembered something about who cut the check since last time the SE talked to him.
Worth a phone call at least, que no?
Sometimes there are things that seem like we whine and cry and seem alittle mean. But in reality, it is not much more than checks and balance's and accountibility. Isn't that really what we want from our elected officals? Weather it be from our gov. to the mayor or all others in between, it is the same, lets have some accountibily. this is what alot of us seem not to be getting out of our elected officals.
So call it balling, crying, whineing, or just nay saying, it all comes back to and the bottom line of accountibility....
History of O:
Exactly.
The editorial Curm cites is another example of why the public doesn’t trust the local paper.
It says we don’t know how much Godfrey would sell the golf course for, yet Godfrey’s study says the funds going to the city for the “Sale of Golf Course” will be “$2 million.” It’s on page 5. How could it be plainer? How come it’s so hard for people to see that?
The editorial also understates Godfrey’s ridership predictions. The editorial says ridership is projected at 406,000, but that is only for WSU students. Total ridership for the downtown to WSU leg is projected at a ridiculous 806,000 riders. It’s on page 3.
So why the misleading statements from the paper? Can they not read, or are they deliberately trying to conceal the low price for the golf course, and the unrealistically high estimates for ridership?
Moreover, the editorial says two years of stalling and providing no information has to do with dotting i’s and crossing t’s and that the “wheels of government turn slowly.” Actually, the mayor said that he’s been waiting for that long to see what Chris Peterson will propose. We haven’t been waiting on “government” at all.
The editorial’s statements about having “skepticism” seem more like a talisman to absolve the paper of guilt for all their misinformation. I doubt the public will buy it.
One good thing, the paper did get Godfrey to release the document, so we can read it for ourselves and I thank them for that.
If everything Godfrey has done is as inept as the estimates in that study, the hopes and wishes for a successful “Junction” project that have been expressed here are wasted air, and the Junction will fail as the government-planned mall that was there before it failed, and actually, that is my prediction of what will happen. Give it at most, five years.
But I do plan to go for one of those $50 family fun nights before it implodes. After all, as badly conceived as the Ogden Mall was, I did shop there at the Bon.
Danny:
Well, we disagree about the editorial. It did not report all those numbers you mention as hard fact. It recognizes them as city-provided figures which need to be examined, not simply accepted as accurate. From the editorial: It relies exclusively on city-provided data, and not surprisingly, paints a rosy picture. It may turn out to be accurate, but at this point it must be viewed with skepticism because it isn't an objective analysis.
Hard to argue with that. Of course, there are a couple of points I wish it had handled differently. You mentioned one: it attributes the two years since a plan, sort of, was first floated by Godfrey/Peterson to "the wheels of government turn[ing] slowly." In fact, the whole thing has hung up because Mr. Peterson refuses to make his proposal known, and the Mayor has refused to make his end of the plan known either. The delay has little to do with government moving slowly and much to do with Peterson not moving at all. And with Godfrey sitting patiently like a lap dog waiting to hear His Master's Voice. The Mayor's answer to many questions about "the plan" [whatever it may be in its latest iteration] has been, more or less, "I don't know; Chris Peterson hasn't told me yet." Not exactly the kind of executive leadership that inspires confidence. Can't help wondering when, or even if, Mr. Peterson will tell the Mayor what the Mayor's vision for the future of Ogden is. Is Mr. Godfrey really going to campaign this fall on this platform: "Chris Peterson has a plan for Ogden's future and I'm sure eventually he'll tell me what it is and then I can tell you." Great moments in American oratory.
Recall the day Mr. Peterson was to reveal all at WSU, to present his plan, with maps and drawings? Then people began actually examined the maps and drawings and it turned out he had walking trails crossing the middle of golf fairways, he had golf holes running up or down hundreds of feet of elevation, he had house lots occupying land so steeply sloped that construction on them would have violated city ordinances. Suddenly, Godfrey/Peterson began explaining that the plans just revealed weren't really plans, that they were instead just an "artist's conception" of what it all might look like. Real plans were promised shortly. That was about a year ago now. We are still waiting for them.
But then it's not my editorial, it's the SE's and I think they did a good job conveying the iffy nature of the city's numbers, and the need for the public to scrutinize the claims carefully and with some skepticism and to see if they stand up to independent analysis. On the whole, a good job I thought.
Yeh, once again I agree with the ever soft pedaling Curmudgeon. This time on the Standard Editorial on the Gondola. At least they are writing about it even if they are not throwing down any hard indictments like we would like to see. Sort of velvet glove editorializing I guess.
They do seem to give Godfrey, the Junction and all other things Godfreyite the benefit of any possible doubt.
Probably can't blame them however considering the enormous Ad revenue they are anticipating from those two world class eating joints that are going in down there.
Speaking of eatin joints at the mall, I read in the Junction hoopla that Boyer is planning yet another Mexican eating establishment to be built in the next phase. Let's see now, there is the one Mexican place already coming on line Friday, there is the new one proposed and there is the two existing ones on Grant imediately west of the Mall. That is four Mexican Joints all clustered tightly around the Junkshun. The only other option in the whole place will be the Pizza joint. Is Mexican food the only thing that the geniuses surrounding the Mayor can invision for Ogden's new world order world class high teck bowling alley anchored mall?
Maybe they figure that all of Ogden's illegal population will forgo Mammacita's home cooking and flock to all these chain's version of fried cheese, cardboard & hamburger tacos and hot sauce from New York City? I say "Get a Rope!"
Like it or not our financial future is tied to the blind midget's vision of the future.
Oz, From the pictures of the theater food court it looks like a Mayan Express which makes even another mexi-food spot. It's o.k. with me as I rarely eat anything other than beans and tortillas when away from home. Safer that way. More and more nuvo-mexi joints are loudly proclaiming no lard. Couldn't come sooner. I always feel a loss when I see another fine chica pounding down the chicharrones and pork tamales. Lose the lard and lose the lardass. Anyone contemplated the last time your favorite restaurant changed out the fryer fat and wondered what kind of adulterated grease they use.
In light of recent posts, permit me to quietly remind the Forum that the original motto of the United States of America, chosen by the Founders, was E Pluribus Unum --- "Out of Many, One."
Still seems a pretty good motto to me.
And your point is?
jest:
That cracks about "Tijuana Utah" seem on the whole unfortunate, unwarranted and, when you get right down to it, un-American. E Pluribus Unum as a national principle is one of the things that made the American experiment, and American nation, unique in the the western world at the time of its founding. And since. And one of its strengths. That's all.
Bravo, Curmudgeon.
Good job Rudi, Those posts were definitely borderline. I hear alot of people around Ogden bemoaning "the Barrio" or "Mexico"(referring to some area of the city) or making sly references to way it used to be and on and on...
Frankly, I can find not a single area of Ogden I would not live and not a single neighborhood approaches the extreme blight of the part of Flagstaff where I raised my kids...purposely, for the experience of living amongst colorful people instead of suburban drones. We bought the most rundown house in the 'hood and proceeded to turn it inside out. It was soon a regular community center.
I shop at the local tiendas almost daily. The fruiteria at 26th/Monroe behind Stimsons is awesome. Rita's tortilleria on Washington likewise. My favorite is Adrianna's at 17th/Wash. They make fresh tortillas there also. Last Sat. they had them still steaming in a big icechest. Ate them all week. I have a commercial property in the bench that I cannot find a buyer or a business to lease it. If it was in the barrio I could have it rented in no time. There is real business to be done there. The east bench is a nice neighborhood but it may be a bit to...clean? can't think of a good term but you get the idea. For some reason no one has seen the opportunity to open a neighborhood coffee/market/burrito shop. I would, but I am too busy. Any folks interested? Friends who have a similar establishments elsewhere are making money hand over fist. Is Ogden just plain sleep walking?
My point is that our friends from down south are some enterprising folks and still know how to have a neighborhood with some life.
Curm...I went back and reread for awhile. Where was the crack about Tijauna?
I see that Ozboy and Tec had reference to Mamacita and 'lard a.."...and at least 3 other comments deleted. They must have been baaaaad!
We are really pc here lately, aren't we?
tsk tsk
Tec
So lard makes lard asses! Such a simple concept, no wonder I never put the two tegether.
But one thing pal, just remember the more mysterious the grease the more flavor in the tacos!
And mystery beef, hey there ain't nothin like it this side of TJ.
And I agree with Oz on the salsa, if it says New York City on the label its time to get the rope. Same feeling I get sometime with that other NYC import Curmudgeon.
I forgot to give props to the Asian Food Market just north of 12th on Wash. Jasmine and her family are very helpful. A few of the unique items new to me since shopping there...Wax Gourd Drink is very refreshing in the heat, reminiscent of coconut juice. Huge mushrooms with stems the size of yams that cook to a meaty texture and nutty aroma. How about Kabocha Squash, the creamiest of the winter squashes. I made Kabocha enchiladas in a blend of cultural flavors. Lotus seeds are fantastic in soup. Like navy or butter beans but richer in flavor. Glass Noodles, Long Beans, Shiitake, Jack Fruit...the list goes on. Those of you still locked into the all-american omelettes, potatoes, burgers, roast beef routine are truly missing out.
Yeah, Lionel,
I remember in college going to Nogales with some fools to experience Mexico. We got lured into some backalley cafe to have some tacos that were palatable with all the XX we consumed. The taco filling was indeed the stuff of mystery.
diz gust ing!
On the subject of mystery meat, does any one have the real straight, no BS, story on the taco carts in front of city hall? Do they all have the same source of supply for the prepared ingrediants, or are they all independantly cooking? Do they use quality stuff? Are they sanitary? Is it just one big familia?
Tec, Curm, Osmoid, Rudi, Other connoisseurs? - Is it edibe?
Curm,
Your definition of "E Pluribus Unum" is dead on. Is this not where we got the saying that America is a melting pot? The problem is that I don't see much mealting going on (Press 1 for English) nor do I see the respect for the law that this country was built on.
Saying that Ogden is " a little Tijuana" may be extreme to you, but the reality is that is is heading down that pathway.
I think that "E Pluribus Unum" does not mean out of many law breakers we have one.
We are all adults here and for a blog site that often touts the 1st amendment, the sensorship is running rampant here. This leads one to think that this site has an agenda and is not a forum to pose one's opinion.
Rudi, don't be scared of a differing opinion.
Something about the American dream has local kids leaving the hometown and moving on to greener pastures. That our culture has not fostered sustainability in our communities has only set the stage for a new culture of replacements who will live, work and raise families locally. Many "'mericans" lament the loss of our communities to "forners". I'll take these newcomers any day over the spoiled unsatisfied directionless Americans always wanting and searching for something missing in their lives. Recent generations are to blame for allowing the disintegration of the towns and cities that were built with so much pride like Ogden. Always looking for the outside investor, new jobs from transient industry, allowing the paving over of our only local natural resource farmland. Why is it that farming and the local production of food is not given any strategic importance.
It is FOOD ferchrissake. Will we allow our FOOD SUPPLY to be contracted out overseas.
Our only salvation is immigration from the south. These folks know how to grow food. Better grown here than there. But what does this say about our priorities? Grow a victory garden, people. Want victory over the immigration "threat" Boycott corporate food and grow your own. If we all produced our food and built our own homes their would be alot fewer jobs beckoning for these hard working people who know the meaning of survival and the value of a dollar over a peso. Ask a white kid the exchange rate...huh...duh...slackjawed, over-book-educated, overpriveliged, under experienced, ne'er-do-wells. The only test of their abilities has been on paper or a playground. Nothing of substance. Our culture has done it's damndest to insulate our children from survival instincts and connection to our food source, the Earth.
Lou,
Can't say that I have risked chomping down a street vended tamale or taco. I'm sure some of them have excellent food but they are all laced with flesh so I will pass.
E Pluribus U:
The comments I found troubling and that I posted my E Pluribus Unum comment regarding, did not speak of, or reference in any way, illegal immigration. They demeaned, I thought, Hispanics. All Hispanics, many thousands of whose families lived in what is now the US for centuries before the late-comer "Anglos" showed up overland from the east.
Want to have a debate over immigration law, the border crisis, fine. I have no problems with that at all. And it has been discussed in WCF. But posting what I usually hear called "beaner jokes" and disparaging all Hispanics [or all Italians or all Irish or all Poles or all Jews --- keep adding as many ethnicities or races or religious groups as you like] does, in my view, undermine the principle of E Pluribus Unum that you and I both endorse.
The standard was set by George Washington, then serving as first president of the United States, when he visited Newport, Rhode Island and told a leader of the Jewish community in that most tolerant of the early states that "happily the Government of the United States...gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance."
"To bigotry no sanction." He set a high standard, and God knows we've never entirely lived up to it. Nor did he. But it's the right standard, and we'd do well to keep it in mind.
Why not have one of the screens in Larry's complex dedicated to movies dubbed in Spanish? I think the big cheeses behind all of this stuff at the Junction are missing a large niche in our population, besides the nice TexMex eateries that is. Latinos only make up 30%, or so, of Ogden's population and I do think they will be around a while.
BTW, the food cart tacos are awesome. Seems to me they are just as safe and sanitary as any other food joint in the O-Town. I've eaten several dozen of the tacos over the years and I'm still here to talk about it.
Lou and Tec:
On street taco vendors: today's New York Times has an interesting piece about a big fight brewing in Salinas, CA over city council attempts to clamp down on mobile taco stands. The fight pits Hispanic owners of the mobile stands against Hispanic owners of brick-and-mortar Mexican restaurants. Restaurant owners are claiming the stands are unsanitary [chanting "e-coli, e-coli" even though no Salinas mobile taco stand has, apparently ever made anyone ill from its food.] The city is considering new regs to force the taco truck owners to become brick-and-mortar restaurant owners instead. It's getting nasty.
Interesting story. Link here
My own view is, I'm all for street food vendors. "Lucky Dog" carts --- shaped like hotdogs in a bun --- are a familiar and cherished part of street life in New Orleans' French Quarter. [Attempts to regulate into oblivion ran into a storm of public protest some years ago and the City Fathers hastily retreated.] I recall the street vendors in NYC fondly. And seems to me, your average "grab a taco/hotdog at a stand" lunch customer is not [if the stand isn't there] going to head off to Javier's or Roosters instead. Not the same customer base at all.
Tec: since you seem to be au currant with Mexican food in Ogden --- and how's that for mixing cultures! --- do you know of any market that sells cabrito? Been a long time since got to cook some up. Tried some years ago to find a carcinaria in town that sold it, but no luck. Do you know of any?
Ogdenite/exNYCer
Dear Folks,
I have been silently enjoying this site since 3.07. My recent (12.04) move to Ogden leaves me still learning what makes Ogden tick. Most often, I have nothing to add to your debates, yet.
But this discussion of EnvisionOgden.org....I do know a few things.
In FEB 2007 a fundraising dinner was held ($100-$200/plate??), to raise money for EnvisionOgden, which is a group of Ogden businessmen devoted to the economic development of Ogden. My husband, a graphic designer who was born in Ogden, raised in SLC, educated @ UorU, after reading an article in SE noting this event, googled EnvisionOgden.com, to find out who these folks were. That domain name was owned by a local mortgage co.
When he googled EnvisionOgden.org, he found that no one had signed up for that domain name. So, for $6.95 to Go daddy, he did. When he met the folks involved in EnvisionOgden, they talked him into designing, for free, the corp ID for EO. Then the billboards you saw go up around town. Since the billboards could not go up, until he web site was designed, he designed all the visual elements of the web site for EO.org (banners, page headers, custom type faces, etc.):
http://www.envisionogden.org/
In the early stages of this web site building, I saw that the site would never launch, and the billboards would not go up, unless there was more content in every category of the page. In mid April, I started to email content with hot links, in every category of the site described in the header bars, incl Ogden History and Ogden Future, to web master Preston McConkie. Then I started to enlarge the concept of the site, by suggesting additional categories to go on the left side bar, like GEAR RENTAL (complete with links), Industry Links (with correct hot links), etc. As well as adding Goal Foundation, Weber Pathways, Ogden Marathon to Local Links.
I even tried to get the very talented, recently graduated from WSU, Issac Goeckeritz to link his site to ours:
http://www.igfilms.com/Ogden.html
I also encouraged the organizers of the Junction/Salomon Center Sneek Peak event to get his film shown at that event.
I am sure Weber forum all supported the opening of Issac's film.....Ogden: Junction City fo the West, at Perry's Egyptian in April. It was a great night. Perry's Egyptian was sold out.
I considered my research for EO.org..... the site, as a great way to learn more about the history of Ogden.
You are right that the web master of EnvisionOgden.org is Preston McConkie. He is also the contributor to this debate, listed as:
Moroni McConkie. He is also the nephew, or related to, the late ....great????? Bruce R McConkie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_R._McConkie
Preston is also the only one who got paid anything for his work on EnvisionOgden.org, the Sneak Peek Event on 6.15.07 @ the Junction/ Salomon Center or the web site. To the best of my kknowledge, Preston is still the web master of EO.org.
My husband and I are no longer officially involved in EO.org, the group or the web site.
However, last FRI 6.22.07 @ 7:45amMT, my husband did supply Preston the info re NYC Times article on Ogden:
NY Times FRI 6.22.07 Travel /Escapes
http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/travel/escapes/22ogden.html
Having lived in Ogden since 12.04, and having done so much research on Ogden for EO.org, I felt this article was poorly informed. So I blogged into the comments section of the NY Times article. When they limited me to 158 charters, I embedded a hot link to all my thoughts:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8656346@N07/558834593/
This NY Times article is now the lead artilce on the home page of EO.org.
Both my husband and I are happy to promote lots of things in Ogden that are forward thinking, with lots of respect to the history of Ogden. Change in Ogden is inevitable. The Gondola idea has been around, I was recently told, since 1956. Whether it is a good idea or not, the people of Ogden, with real time and grade, will decide. I look forward to seeing WHAT you decide.
In the meantime, as an avide outdoors person, I am grateful to the close proximity of places like Snowbasin, where we hike with our dog in the summer and cross country ski in winter. With our recently bought canoe, we will also be enjoying Pine View reseroir as well as Causey.
Coming to Ogden, from points east, we have adapted to living in Ogden in lots of different ways. Like shopping for Portabella mushrooms, (that Tec Johnson savored from the Wasington Blvd Asian Market) @ Costco. Other gourmet finds @ Costo are the STAR large bottle capers, Earthbound Spring Mix greens, sugar snap peas, the pesto, Mancheco cheese, the $19 dog beds.....Well, I digress. But, after 25yrs as a food photographer in NYC and SW CT/Metro NYC, I am an avid foodie.
So, yes, you can get local grown UTAH veggies close to Ogden, this summer @ Bamboo Gardens, on RT 89, on east side, in Fruit Heights. The owner of Smitty's nursery owns that, too. And his extended family helps him with all the acres he has under cultivation, growing veggies. He will most likely be supplying, or is already, the Good Earth stores, incl the Riverdale RD location, with fresh, locally grown veggies, too. No need to waste gas, driving to Whole Foods in SLC. So check it out.
Cannot find the latest Indie Film @ Ogden Megaplex??? GO GREEN. Just subcribe to netflix. Their library is unlimited. Save the gas to SLC.
Want to walk your dog, off leash, in the first LEGAL off leash dog park, in S Ogden @ Glasmann Park????? Come join us. The masses get together @ 6:30 to 10pm. I am a regular, and part of the meet and greet committee. Here is our web site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8656346@N07/
Want to know the councilwoman to thank @ S Ogden: Shannon Sebehar:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8656346@N07/558463805/
So Hi to all you Ogdenintes. Embarce the future of Ogden!!
UtahEleanor
Welcome to Weber COunty Forum Eleanor.
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