While this Associated press story dwells merely upon the Republican loss of the U.S. House of Representatives, the mood of American "progressives," in the wake of last night's Democratic victory is far less restrained -- at least in some regions of the blogosphere.
Quite predictably though, yesterday's election was pretty much GOP business as usual in Utah, the reddest of red states, even in close districts like Senate 18.
Now that the smoke is clearing from yesterday's biennial political distraction, we think it's time to get back to our basic focus here at Weber County Forum, i.e., monitoring the performance of local government, and exposing liars, cheats, poseurs and other assorted fakirs.
And frankly, we're tired of talking about the 2006 elections. Dirty politics in the Senate 18 race has left an exceedingly bad taste in our mouth, even though we believe justice (and citizen common sense) ultimately prevailed. So it's time to broaden the discussion, we think.
In that connection we're reeling off a few of yesterday's news stories -- articles we put on the back burner, so we could keep the spotlight on yesterday's election.
- Emerald City appears to be on the cusp of being nickle-and-dimed to death, according to this Standard-Examiner story.
- Charlie Trentleman examines Gondolist Zombie Cult claims, and draws some very rational conclusions.
- Gondolist Bernie Allen learns some hard lessons about self-serving behavior, perpetrated by a person placed in a position of trust in his law office. Hopefully things will work out for the best, and Bernie will emerge from this unfortunate situation with increased sympathy for his fellow lumpencitizens, who are are keeping a very close eye on his cretin nephew-in-law, another obviously self-obsessed individual who's been placed in a fairly important postion of trust in our town.
- Gentle Reader Sharon requested -- and got -- her much-deserved retraction, for which we congratulate her.
Have at it, O Gentle Ones.
51 comments:
Yes. The first place to check information presentede by business is a physics professor who is also a local Sierra Club leader.
Over one year ago Curt Geiger sat on Channel 17 and expressed the sales presentation that enabled Descente to move to Ogden. He said at that time that he thought the same presentation would bring more companies to Ogden.
One year later, on Channel 17, we see a press conference where state and local officials thank Curt for the efforts he has made to help bring hundreds of Ski jobs to Ogden. We also hear directly from Mike Dowse of Amer that they came most of all to participate in the Mayor's High Adventure Recreation Vision and that they are excited about the Gondola project and would like very much to see it realized.
Then...Charlie Trentlemen calls the Sierra Club/Physics professor to check the facts and set the record straight.
Rational and Objective. When the WCF uses these terms, you know its true!
Sigh.
Let us try one more time, pointless though I expect it will be. The drive to make Ogden a business hub for outdoor industries is a perfectly good idea. The Mayor and Mr. Geiger and others involved in bringing such businesses to Ogden deserve plaudits for doing so. And have received them here on WC forum.
None of which in any way means the Gondola/sell our parks scheme is a good one, or that those companies came here because of a highly controversial gondola/park sale/real estate trifecta for which no proposal had even been submitted to the City when those companies decided to come here, and in fact for which no proposal has yet been submitted.
And I notice that at no point in his little hissy fit did Anon question the accuracy of any of the numbers reported by Mr. Trentelman.
Sadly, Argument by Hissy Fit [as opposed to argument by evidence... meaning fact, illustration and example] seems to be the preferred form of discussion by many LO advocates and supporters.
Amen, anon
As long as we're talking about my day job, I'd like to invite everyone to the NE corner of the WSU campus this afternoon where we'll have telescopes set up for safely viewing the rare transit of Mercury. The event begins at 12:12 and ends at 5:10, but the forecast is for increasing clouds so come early. We'll be at the north end of the parking lot that's directly north from the Lind Lecture Hall (wide round building). You can also get there from the dead end on Mt. Ogden Drive, off 36th. Sorry we can't offer gondola rides from downtown, but the 603 bus runs every 15 minutes.
Gondolist potty-mouth flame removed by administrator
Get a grip, Rycker!
Curmudgeon,
I'm glad that you agree. The sales presentation that Curt expressed in great detail had the gondola as its center of gravity.
The comments by Mike Dowse seem to indicate that the sales pitch he bought into was the same one that Curt said Descente bought into and that NiDecker said they bought into, and that Goode said that they bought into, and that other non-ski related investment in Ogden as also bought into.
Charlie's "rational" expression, with credbility provided by the Sierra Club/Physics department at WSU, is that the truth of the matter is the companies came for low priced real estate with no speculation on any realization of a gondola or fulfillment of the Hub vision. OK, Charlie... and Rudizink.
But, the facts simply aren't so.
And as Rudizink has said, the proof will be in the pudding.
The "Hub Companies" are already setting meeting dates to discuss ways to help realize the things they all were willing to speculate on. The Gondola....top of the list.
To Anonymous,
I always like the way you mention the support for the gondola project without clearly stating which one. Since there are two, no make it three projects, I'm always interested in which one you suggest all these parties are interested in seeing developed.
Is it the one from downtown to the golf course (i.e. the summertime microware oven), or is it the one from the golf course to Malan Basin (should that high end resort ever be built), or is it the one from the golf course to Snow Basin (the one that Snow Basin has, at least 3 times, said that they won't allow to happen)? I suspect it's the last one because that's the only one that would really appeal to any of these companies. It's also the one that we all know is the least likely to happen in the next 15 plus years.
Every time I ask you to specify which one it is, you seem to change the subject or go away.
Is that because you can't answer the question or because you're afraid to answer the queastion?
Interesting too, is the fact that at least one of the relocating ski companies, that you mention as being motivated by the gondola project to move to Ogden, wasn't even aware of the project until after they had arrived into the city. And only became a supporter after a lunch with our mayor.
I really wish you would quit relying on your confidence that no one in the city is as smart or as well informed as you are.
They are in favor of the gondola system that links their business to a resort in Malan's basin.
Are you in favor of a gondola from downtown Ogden to Weber State University?
Yes 54.33 % (922)
No 45.67 % (775)
Total votes: 1697
Are you in favor of a gondola from Weber State University to Mount Ogden?
Yes 58.40 % (782)
No 41.60 % (557)
Total votes: 1339
NEVER EVER SPECULATE. TRUE BUSINESS PEOPLE ONLY GO FOR SURE THINGS. PLEASE DISREGARD THE ENTIRE STOCK MARKET, ALL REAL ESTATE, ANY NEW UNTAPPED CONSUMER MARKETS, OR THE BILLIONS OF E-MAILS YOU GET A YEAR LIKE THE ONE BELOW... WHY? DAN SCHROEDER OF THE SIERRA CLUB SAYS ITS NOT HOW BUSINESS WORKS AND CHARLIE AND RUDIZINK BOTH AGREE.
-----Original Message-----
From: Truman Field [mailto:deborarissi@botox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:55 PM
To:
Subject: Truman wrote:
What's the first rule of investing? Buy low sell high!
Yesterday, market forces caused our top pick (EGLY) to close
down on the day. This gives our members the perfect
opportunity to pick some up on the cheap before the big
announcement!
Ever-Glory International (EGLY)
Current: 0.61
Projected: 1.3O
Rating: 5/5
Bob, what are you talking about? Your gondola pushing is beginning to sound like insanity.
You rely on the Standard Examiner Poll for your evidence of support?
How lame is that! Most people haven't looked at that site in months, besides every two weeks it opens up so the same person can re-vote. And believe me Lift Ogden, which has about the only full functioning link to that old poll, has been plugging the hell out of it. Drink your our bath water if you want, but don't think others will believe it.
Before is was removed from the Standard Examiner web page the results were more than 2 to 1 against the gondola projects.
Get up to date and quit sckewing your stories or at least get some real data to support your story.
EGLY????
Yeah, that's just about the gondolist mentality!
Penny Stock Specultors, O Boy...
the EGLY 1-year chart
Penny Stock Bottom-feeders!!!
All this crazy gondola talk makes me think that maybe we should get back to talking about the elections.
Sigh...
The numbers Mr. Trentelman reported, and that came from the press release from the Sierra Club and Save Our Canyons came from a document generated by Mayor Godfrey's administration, obtained under Utah's version of the Freedom of Information Act. The numbers, gentlemen, are the Mayor's. Not figures made up by Dan S. or Mr. Trentelman or anyone else. They come from the administration.
The continued reference to Dan S. occupation as a way [I guess you think] to undercut his arguments is (a) juvenile and (b) makes no more sense than the argument occasionally offered by some here on WCF that Mr. Curt Geiger's opinions on the gondola and resort and land sale matters can be ignored because he is merely "a rag merchant." What matters is whether the arguments offered, by Dan S. or C. Geiger of Lift Ogden or SGO, stand up on the evidence. When someone tells me that I can discount someone's argument because he or she is "a professor" or "a sweater manufacturer" then I know I'm dealing with someone who has, or thinks he has, no argument that can be sustained on the evidence.
And finally, I remind you, yet again, that Mr. C. Geiger is on record as saying that he, personally, doesn't care if the gondola comes to Ogden or not, that he is for it because he thinks it will be good for Ogden, but if it does not happen, he'll be perfectly happy to be in Ogden where his cost of doing business is substantially lower than it was in [I think] Denver. Now, if you want to argue that Mr. Geiger was being untruthful when he said that, you are of course free to do so. But you will have to take that up with him.
Yeah, Anon, we could talk about how the Democrats won Colorado and how the same will happen in Virginia (and what a $hithead George Allen is), what's next for Greiner, and how Rummy is finally calling it quits (it's about time).
Rumsfeld HAS stepped down. I just thought it should be reiterated! . . and celebrated!
They are proposing an ex CIA replacement who is now the president of Texas A&M. Is that a fighting football school? If so, does that translate into a military/defense strategist?
Gates Intelligence career (from wikipedia, for what that's worth)
While at Indiana University, Gates was recruited to join the Central Intelligence Agency. But before joining the CIA full-time as an intelligence analyst, he spent two years in the Air Force
Gates left the CIA in 1974 to serve on the National Security Council staff but returned to the CIA in late 1979. He was named the Director of the DCI/DDCI Executive Staff in 1981, Deputy Director for Intelligence in 1982, and Deputy Director of Central Intelligence from April 18, 1986, to March 20, 1989. He was nominated to become the Director of Central Intelligence in early 1987, but withdrew the nomination after it became clear the Senate would reject it due to controversy[2] about his role in the Iran-Contra affair.
Gates was Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs from March until August of 1989, and was Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Adviser from August 1989 until November 1991. He was nominated (for the second time) for the position of Director of Central Intelligence by President Bush on May 14, 1991, confirmed by the Senate on November 5, and sworn in on November 6, becoming the only career officer in the CIA's history (as of 2005) to rise from entry-level employee to Director
During his 26-year career as an intelligence professional, he spent almost nine years on the National Security Council, serving four Presidents of both major political parties.
Career after leaving the CIA
Gates became the 22nd President of Texas A&M University on August 1, 2002 following a tenure as Interim Dean of the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M from 1999 to 2001. He has served as a member of the board of trustees of Fidelity Investments, and on the board of directors of NACCO Industries, Inc., Brinker International, Inc. and Parker Drilling Company, Inc. He also served as President of the National Eagle Scout Association during the mid-2000s.
It appears he left the CIA in 1993? I guess that makes him familiar with the FIRST gulf war. He is also set up to go after Iran for our next war? Also, he appears to have some experience with oil companies unless Parker Drilling makes dental supplies. What more could Bush want: he is ready for the past, he knows about Iran, he works for oilmen and I think NACCO Industries sells heavy equipment for mining. He's a natural!
The new SECDEF is an Aggie? [Texas A and M guy?]
Hmmmmm.... How can I convey the general reputation of Texas Aggies in the region to those who did not grow up with it? Anywhere in the Southeast, for example, an "Aggie joke" is a joke based upon the modest thought processes of A and M graduates [who are, naturally, predominently Republican]. Maybe telling an Aggie joke will do it. Here's my favorite:
There once was an A and M student named Tom who spent 50 years at the school, trying to graduate. He went to all the football games, enrolled every term, became a beloved campus instutition, but he could not graduate because he could not pass math. Finally, it became clear he was not long for this world, and loyal Aggies begged the president of the school to find a way, some way for the old man to graduate before he died.
Moved by the appeal, the president of A and M relented. This year, at the half time of the homecoming football game, he promised, I'll bring Tom out to the fifty yard line, and ask him one math question, just one, and if he answers it, he will graduate.
The big day came. At halftime the president and the old student came to the center of the field. A microphone was set up so the 80,000 Aggie graduates and students filling the stands could hear every word. The Presdient stepped to the microphone and said: "OK, Tom. Here's you question. You answer it correctly and you become a graduate of Texas A & M. How much is two plus two?"
The old man's brow wrinkled, he thought and thought, the crowd went dead silent waiting, hoping he would get it right. Finally, he leaned toward the microphone and in a shaky, tentative voice said "Two plus two is.... four?"
From the stands, 80,000 Aggies rose as one and began chanting in a thunderous roar:
Give him another chance!
Give him another chance!
Revealing quote in your "lefty link," Rudy.
"A big thank you goes out to every Democrat who didn't run against the Democratic Party in this election cycle. Those who stuck with us can share in the spoils. Those who didn't can stick it, and expect continuing retribution. The Democratic Party won tonight. If you ran from it, then you lost. Even if you didn't lose today, you loss is coming soon. Count on it."
Don't think for a minute that Demo moderates will stay moderate for very long in the new congress.
The bipartisan happy talk on the tube today is just window dressing. Once SF bay area lefty Nancy Pelosi gets a grip on the reins of the new congress, those Demo moderates will quickly be brought to heel.
Hold onto your wallets, suckers.
A possibly relevant story from today's Salt Lake Tribune:
Proposition 2, with 71 percent in favor after 99 percent of precints reported, authorizes a $48 million bond - costing an additional $6.50 a year on a $200,000 home - to be split evenly between parks and open space.
The ballot measure had strong support from county polls and a bipartisan coalition of leaders ranging from Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. to Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson. In addition to preserving natural areas including wildlife habitat, the bond money was slated to protect land near the Jordan River as well as hiking and biking trails such as the Bonneville Shoreline Trail.
Yer right der Marko, dem Democrats are up to no good, I hear it fur myself on the Rush Limbaugh ann Sean Hannity shoe dis mornin. At least we got ourselves some good ol' GOP boys here from Utah that will be representin us (too bad about Lavar fallin hard to that Matheson fella, shoulda won that fight).
Very funny, anonymous.
But watch what happens when moderate Demos are routinely assigned by Pelosi to the House Latrine Committee.
Watch your wallet, like I said, assuming you have a wallet.
That little email that Bob Anonymous posted is like hundreds I get spamming my box.
I'm LOL that he posted this as evidence of the smart money.
Actually, Marko, I do feel much better now about my wallet (a big fat one at that) AND a laundry list of other issues that were at stake with the NeoCon crackheads in charge.
Can you imagine that Salt Lakers voted to bond themselves to the the tune of $48,000,000.00 so that SLC can continue to be a 'must'see' venue of conventions and tourists?
In order to make several million dollars from these tourists and conventions who come to be a part of the natural beauties of the mountains, ski resorts, Salt Lake, and other enticements of "open space", they now have to PAY to preserve what nature gave this lovely area. Well, how much will Ogdenites be willing to be bonded for to get back some of our natural beauties when Godfrey, Ellison and Peterson, along with the LO gang rapists are thru ravishing our treasures?
Many need to attend and keep an eye on the PC as they 'discuss' the sensitive overlay zoning and other changes that will hand over our greatest assets to a pack of despoilers.
Of course you do.
So where's your current 10-4?
The Bahamas?
The South Pacific?
If not, why not?
I'd recommend you convert your currency to gold and guns, before departing to your favorite beach.
I'm assuming with this advice that you made a whole lot of bucks, and not just Harrisville-style chump-change.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
Gold? Guns? Bahamas? South Pacific? Yer not only wrong...yer crazy like the whole rest of the lot of you NeoCons. Would you get your feet firmly planted back to Mother Earth please???
Well, in spite of all that is holy Cheif Greiner won fair and square. He even over came some pretty big hurdles in so doing.
So I will take back all those mean things I have said about him - for now.
I hope he does well in the State Senate and truly represents the real people of Ogden and not just the Godfreyite agenda. Does any one know where he stands on the Goondola Payola scam?
It was very incourageing to read where he is against big government and government as the solution to all problems. Could he actually be an old style republican?
The picture of he and his wife in the Standard was the first one I have ever seen of him when he was smiling. They looked like regular folks!
Sure hope they are.
Ozboy-
He came over some pretty big hurdles, maybe, but remember who he was running against. Reid can make any hurdle smaller than it actually is. If I ever run for public office I surely hope Reid will be around to run against.
Joe and Oz:
And let us remember as well that he ran in a recently gerrymandered district the lines of which were drawn specifically to insure a Republican victory.
Curm...be a gracious winner...not a whiner
If you can't whine on this blog, where the hell can you?
g.o.p.
Not whining. Just pointing out the political realities. Creating safe districts for parties is, after all, what gerrymandering is about. The district was altered to increase Republican votes four years ago, I think it was, it produced a Republican senator in the first election under the new district borders, and it remained a Republican seat after yesterday's election. That's all.
Most of the whining I've seen has come from Mr. Grenier's supporters, like RudiZink who, in the headnote to this thread, asks all to move past the election and then in the next breath fires off another whining complaint about dirty tactics used against Grenier [though none were mentioned].
Has anyone been downtown and seen the signs on the fence in front of the Nideker bldg?
It's so sophomoric and amateurish that I felt embarrassed. Kind of like listening to a horn solo at a 7th grade recital.
On a white plastic sign is this:
'Restoration and Reclamation
underway/pending due to opportunities from Gondola, Resort and Recreation Center'
(in the center of this is the green and blue LIFT OGDEN logo).
Above all is a sign proclaiming: "From Building Owners"
'Underway/Pending'...and
'opportunities from gondola, resort, and recreation center'.
I guess this is to let us know that Nideker came here because of the great opportunities pending from the goofy gondola. Well, if Nideker employees hope to walk out the front door and hop onto the gondola, let us pray that the boarding platform isn't on the west side of the street. Bummer.
Is this the marketing skills on display of Bob or Curt?
We were told by a city employee who came to vote at our polling place yesterday, that between 20th and 30th streets and WA to Monroe...the crime is higher than a similar such area in NYC! He made the remark about the gondola: 'so, the gondola is going over the highest crime area in the city...and people want to look down on THAT?"
We won't have drive-by shootings there, but glide-by.
Godfrey needs to get his act together. If he expects his rec center to be a success, then he needs to start cleaning up our streets. The old mall had security problems, and this one will too. It's a rare day that we don't read or hear on TV, of a gang drug-related shooting in that area. And, remember the names? I'd like to know how many perpetrators are illegals? Greiner told me the police aren't allowed to ask if the people they stop are illegals or not.
Well, there are many of us who want legislation passed that will require cops to ask and then deport, post haste. Now that Jon is also a senator, perhaps he can get that legislation written and passed? After all, he ran on a platform of law and order.
Having a rep as a drug infested, gang shooting, felonious assaults town will not bring tourists, locals, or Weber County shoppers to downtown...gondola or not.
So, Mayor Godfrey....get your visionary head out of your, uh, gondola and make this town safer.
No matter how many clumsy signs your LO friends put up, crime is out of control in your mean streets.
Who has paid for those LO signs? Curt? Or us?
Sharon:
Yes, I saw the signs the other day on the way to the Weber Center. I figure the owners get to put up whatever advertising signs they want to [consistent with city codes]. Their property, their advertising. I also figure most folks driving or walking by will give as much credence to the signs as they do to most advertising they see. Which is to say, very very little.
Rudi,
Just reread the thread...I didn't DEMAND a retraction (identifying me as a , dare I say??? democrat!)...I just called, Dave Greiling answered, and I asked for a retraction. He said, "I'll take care of it"..and it was done next day..Sunday. Nice.
Stuart said: "Ski haberdashers=morons"
These kind of comments, while basically harmless, may be taken as extremely insulting to some of the soon-to-arrive Amer employees. The everyday WCF reader knows who you are talking about. The readers who stumble upon WCF as they search online for what's happening in their new hometown will be wondering what's up.
There have been comments also directed at skiing and skiers that call them elitist or pampered or that they want huge infrastructure built for them at public expense.
That image of skiers is ridiculous. Those who think this way do so because the price of a lift ticket and equipment seems expensive compared to other forms of recreation. The experience that skiing and snowboarding delivers is well worth the expense. So much so that I deny myself plenty of other base american psuedo-luxuries and experiences, events, cars, meals, toys, etc in order to be first in line at Snowbasin on any given powder morning.
When my kids were small we lived in the most run-down house in a small college town but I took them out of school so we could all learn to ride snowboards together on the local mountain. It was worth it.
My passion for snowboarding is just one story of thousands I have heard on the lifts from ski bums like myself.
The mix of exhilaration from being on top of a mountain in a blinding blizzard and then sliding down at top speed and flying off rocks, logs, lips and ledges cannot be matched by any other sport.
I am continually amazed at the paltry local turnout at Snowbasin compared to any other mountain. Especially considering the population base within 25 miles.
I'll welcome these newcomers and if they are reading I want them to know they should participate and get to know the territory and the issues.
Those who oppose the town gondola mostly are not opposed to the rest of the Mayor's vision. To label us as naysayers or CAVE's is outright nonsense.
The opposition to the town gondola is founded in the opposition to selling our most valuable open space for the benefit of a few out of towners and a reclusive wanna be developer. I know that any newcomers being of outdoor recreation leanings understand these issues as familiar in their previous environs.
Tod:
Nicely put.
Say, Tod, did you attend the Independent Film showings at the Egyptian last Feb?
One was all on snowboarding. Breathtaking shots...just as you've described. Just 3 young men with a camera and a couple more friends out in the snow having a blast.
It was titled 'White ????'
Hope you were there.
The “Circus Companies” are already setting meeting dates to discuss things they are willing to speculate on...The Weight-guessing machine, top of the list.
I missed the showing at the Egyptian. As long as were on the subject here is a link to some recent snowboarding videos. Hope even the those unable to take part in this kind of sport can see the beauty. Snow is in the forecast!!
SnowVids
Here is another one. Pause the video while it loads to prevent chattering. Hope you have a fast connection. Some real big mountain action.
StandardFilmsTrailer
s
Speaking of snow coming...as SOON
as we were in the car tonite after the BYU game (we won 55-7 over WY)..the snow started...lite at first, and not too far into Provo Canyon it really started down. Awful driving after Heber til we hit Morgan...then sporadic and clearing in Ogden. Our driveway was wet, so don't know if from snow or rain?
Colder'n a well digger's knee at the game. But, making our first TD two minutes into the game, and not letting up, kept things warmed up!
Watch out UTES!!!
Matt Godfrey can't possibly be a 'real' Republican...he hangs with Reid, doesn't he?
Sharon:
Sorry, two can play that game. Watch:
"Reid can't possibly be a 'real' Democrat... he hangs with Matt Godfrey, doesn't he?"
See?
Matt and Stu are cut from the same cloth regardles of which political party they are pretending to be in at the moment.
Neither one has a well grounded Republican or Democrat political philosophy. The closest they would come to any politcal definition is socialist bastards, or perhaps Trotskyites.
They both believe that the Government is the solution to all problems and situations - as long as they have the "keys" or control the levers of said government.
The only thing remotely "American" about them is that they don their biker drag costumes and snuggle up in the John at the Kokomo on late Saturday nights. Stu is the butch top, and Matt is the one with the scraggily blond wig.
And, remember Curm, your fearless leader declared that 'this is a republic, the people elected ME and I wil make the decisions' for the rabbles' good.
No referendums, 'no sighing' please!
mercy:
My fearless leader? I'm curious, who do you think that is? Certainly not Hizzonah, Mayor Godfrey, whose policies and tenuous grip on the minimal standards of ethical conduct we should expect in a public official come in for repeated criticism from me.
Just who do you think my fearless leader is? You have me really curious now.
Geebus, Curm...
Perhaps it's time to get out of the political trenches and go to a beach for a week or two.
"Fearless Leader" is a Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon character...
Sharon is old enough tto remember it; and so am I.
Fearless Leader
Gulp a "lude," dude.
Rudi:
"Your fearless leader" is what piqued my curiosty. Had she said "our fearless leader," it wouldn't have raised a ripple of curiousty. But "your [meaning my]" did....
As for it being time to get out of the political trenches... I note with amusement the topic of the current lead thread on WCForum, put there by... by... ah, yes, by, ah.. ahem... you?
But I think you're right. It's time to put the election behind us and refocus on matters local. More than enough to keep us fully occupied there. And if there isn't, just wait a day or so, and Hizzonah will find it necessary to skulk about town following a city employee's wife or to make some claim he can't back up or to push the envelope on ethical conduct yet again in some other way, and we'll have lots to discuss.
Or maybe even LO advocates will decide to drop by for an exchange of ideas, information, evidence, and opinion rather than just hit and run dismissive snarkery. Who knows? Miracles do happen, they tell me....
Rudi,
Mercy me! Me Mercy!
I LIKE her, but Sharon is not who I am ...
She's in the game, and takes a lot of blame,
As for me, my other name is SAM!
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