Report on last night's 8.16.07 RDA and city council work sessions
By Curmudgeon
Last night, the City Council held back to back work sessions, the first sitting as the RDA Board, and the second, as the Council. The RDA work session came first. All members of the Council were present within moments of the session’s beginning.
Mr. Harmer introduced Mr. Tom Christopolous [sp?] as Ogden’s new business development manager. He replaces Mr. Scott Brown in that position. Mr. Christopolous formerly held a similar job for the city of Layton. He left to go into business, succeeded, recently sold his business and so was available for the development post in Ogden, Mr. Harmer said.
The main topic of the meeting was the proposed RDA and other city funding for the Windsor Hotel rehab project on 25th Street. Mr. Harmer began by noting that Ms. D. Littrell had sent a letter to the City raising three questions about the three out of state investors in the Windsor Project and their Ogden company [Ogden Properties LLC]. Mr. Harmer passed the questions on to the OP LLC investors and they responded to all of them. First, Ms. Littrell wanted to know why someone other than the three investors was listed as the company’s registered agent in Utah. The three investors in OP LLC are all Californians and Utah law requires that an LLC in Utah have a Utah resident as registered agent, Mr. Harmer explained. Second, Ms. Littrell apparently alleged that one of the investors,[ a Mr. Nichols I think] had headed up a bicycle company [Ibis] that had gone bankrupt. Mr. Harmer explained that Mr. Nichols had sold his profitable company to others, who ran it into bankruptcy, at which point Mr. Nichols repurchased it, and made it profitable again. Finally, Ms. Littrell raised questions about Mr. Scott Brown’s involvement in the Windsor project investment group. Mr. Harmer said the OP LLC investors replied that Mr. Brown is “not an equity participant” in the project and that they have “no contractual arrangement” with Mr. Brown. Mr. Harmer did say Mr. Brown was providing some advice to the partners about organizing their company and projects in Ogden, but that it was being done as a favor, not as a participant in the investment.
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29 comments:
Godfrey urging the Council to "be honest with the voters"? Does he have any idea how ludicrous that is coming from him?
If he hadn't jerked the city around for the past years with his gondola fiasco, there wouldn't be this last-minute rush to decide on corridors and modes of transit. I had gotten the impression that studies showed that a downtown to McKay-Dee (ie, continuing the transit line on past WSU) corridor had been identified as having the most potential ridership.
I also find it ironic that the man who wanted gondola cars wooshing over people's houses and yards now is concerned about the effect of having a streetcar line going down the same streets.
I have difficulty envisioning the use of a Washington Blvd line. The destinations just aren't there the way WSU and McKay Dee are.
In the course of the discussion, Council Staffer Sue told the council that in her opinion, it was important for the Council not to look at transit decisions purely as matters of moving people from point A to point B. That was how UTA and UDOT looked at things, but the Council should also look at transit matters... corridors selected, modes favored.... community development projects. As community building projects involving matters UTA and UDOT did not look at. Business development, for example, impact on housing development, and so on. That the Council had to consider much more than UTA or UDOT looked at in their analyses. Comments agreeing came from most members of the Council present.
These comments are the essence of transit and why mere common folk cannot understand the infrastructural revolution that is a transit corridor. A corridor will guide development and lifestyle for decades. It does not matter that current densities seem to not support it. Since when do current densities drive freeway construction. There are endless cases of freeways being built to fuel development. Same thing happens with transit iand it's much funner, people friendly and moves us into a new era of living with our transportation and our communities.
The mayor is being highly disingenuous to suggest that nobody has studied which would be the best transit corridor. The Wasatch Front Regional Council performs such a study every four years as part of their long-range planning process. Time after time, the result has been that within Weber County, by far the most cost-effective transit investment is between downtown Ogden and the WSU/McKay-Dee area. This is because you have high employment densities at both ends of the corridor, with limited parking. The mayor has had every opportunity to convince the professionals otherwise during the last two planning cycles, and he has failed. The ridership potential just isn't comparable for a line to North Ogden or South Ogden or Riverdale or Roy, or for a loop around downtown. This means that a rail project to any of these locations would not qualify for federal funding at this time, and that means that there'd be no choice but to fund it entirely with local dollars. And none of these projects would be cheap, even if the city does try to cut corners by outsourcing the vehicle construction. (The vehicles are only a small fraction of the total expense anyway.)
So rather than building a project that will be successful (not enough riders) and that the feds may pay 50-80% of, the mayor wants to build a project that will be unsuccessful and to pay for it all ourselves. It's amazing, the contortions he's able to go through, to preserve a glimmer of hope for his gondola.
The mayor is also wrong about the correct timing of the alternatives analysis. It doesn't make sense to ask voters to pay for a project before you're ready to tell them what the project will be. The alternatives analyses for all five of Salt Lake County's new rail projects were complete before the vote last fall that funded them. The five-year expiration date on environmental studies usually gives plenty of time to get the funding in place, and even if it doesn't, the additional cost to freshen up an environmental study is usually only a small fraction of the initial cost.
The mayor is correct to suggest that in order for voters to approve a tax increase, there will probably have to be something else in the package besides this transit corridor, to provide more direct benefit to the rest of the county. But it can be a completely separate project or projects, and it doesn't have to be transit. It could simply be more frequent bus service to certain areas, or it could be road projects. And in fact, that's what the sales tax this fall will be spent on, if it passes: Lots of road projects, mostly in west Weber County.
Moving people from point A to point B is only a fraction of transits function and almost the least important. The territory between A and B is vast, populated and in need of street level redevelopment to human scale. Transit creates a lifestyle, a healthy one at that. When grocers and other shops move into a transit zone the residents suddenly have a place besides the local malls to shop and live.
Kudo's to Mr. Curmudgeon for his very fine and detailed report on the doings of our city government. It is refreshing that a private citizen would take so much time and spend so much effort to keep the citizens informed.
Makes one wonder why Mr. Secret on the ninth floor hasn't made sure that the city makes this effort to insure a well informed citizenry.
It also brings to mind the late and great Dian Woodhouse who spent so much time filling this much needed gap in Ogden City Government. We miss you Dian and will always hold your memory dear to our hearts.
Also a big thanks to the ever dilligent and intelligent Dan S. If it weren't for Dan the little bastard on nine would get away with a lot more lies than he already does.
I too got a huge kick out of the absolutely precious line of Godfrey's, presumably delivered with a straight face: "We need to be honest with the voters".
The guy is absolutely clueless when it comes to integrity and his complete lack of it! As is true with all pathological liars, he actually believes that people believe him when he says such far fetched things as that!
Again many thanks to Curmudgeon, Dan and Rudi for their tireless efforts to let the sun shine on the truth in our fair Emerald City. You are all true patriots.
I am very concerned that Scott Brown is in some way involved with this project. He is not an equity participant and has no contractual arrangement (so they say), but he is involved (to what degree I am not sure). Scott Brown does not do favors out of the kindness of his heart. His involvement alone taints the whole deal for me, especially as far as the City putting $100,000 towards the project goes.
Is Gadi Lesham the accused thief of $11 million dollars involved in this building?
Does any one know just what Ogden properties he may have bought with his alledged purloined millions?
Why does the Mayor do so much city business with so many crooked people?
Julia,
Perhaps because they stroke his ego and tell him how wonderful he is? Godfrey wants to leave a legacy and working sewer lines just ain't impressive in that regard. Unfortunately when Godfrey is conned, we the taxpayers are conned even more.
Remember how he was dazzled by the riches of Chris Peterson and traveling to Europe to look at gondolas? Rubbing elbows with Hollywood types probably has the same effect on him even though they are very minor players.
The Gondola that Never Dies
In case anyone had any doubts that Hizonnah intends to forge ahead with a downtown to WSU gondola, last night's proceedings should lay those doubts to rest.
As best I can recall, the gondola was specifically mentioned only once, when the Mayor suggested the purpose of the original WFRC corridor study was to see if a gondola over that route would qualify for federal funding [and that the study concluded it wouldn't]. Never mentioned specifically again, the gondola was present none the less.
The Mayor argued that (a) a street car system over the downtown to WSU corridor was so expensive it would never pass muster with voters or WACOG. Simply isn't going to happen. (b) a BRT system over the same route was financially feasible, but he doubted voters would get excited about millions for a glorified bus line (c) however, if the City made another corridor its transit priority, then perhaps the downtown to WSU might work for "another mode," perhaps one "privately funded."
Uh huh. Anyone have any doubts what that "other mode" might be? I don't. [Sadly, no member of the Council asked him specifically "Do you mean a gondola?] Eliminating the downtown WSU corridor as the city's prime transit corridor project area is essential to preserve the Mayor's hope of luring private money to build a gondola over the same route. If a city transit system [street car or BRT] serves the same corridor, the gondola project is dead.
Also amusing was the Mayor's recent discovery of the impact of inflation upon transit construction costs. For years, when he was still trying to sell the gondola/gondola/park sale scheme [which he now agrees was not a feasible scheme in the first place], he kept repeating construction cost estimates for the gondola that were years old, and seemed magically unaffected by inflation. The same figures, unadjusted, over and over. About $20 million as I recall to build the proposed city end of the gondola.
But last night, in discussing the projected costs of a street car line over the downtown WSU route, the scales fell from the Mayor's eyes and he insisted the impact of inflation had now to be factored in during the discussion. Why, the old estimate for the street car's construction --- $100 million --- would really be, now, $130 million or even $150 million he said.
Amazing how inflation disappeared when his end was low-balling the construction costs of the "mode" [big word last night, "mode" was] he favored -- a gondola --- but it roared back and jumped to new heights when his end was high-balling the construction costs of the "mode" he didn't favor --- a street car.
Imagine that....
yep, Curm...imagine that!
Thanx for good reporting...Dian would be pleased.
And, good analysis.
You know, I kept waiting to read in Curm's report that someone on the council spoke up and said something to the Mayor about "being honest with the voters" or using the UTA grant money on a project, let alone a corridor, that had not yet been approved by both the mayor's office and the council, or any number of statements or questions they could've raised -many of which have been raised here. Why they don't continues to amaze.
David Harmer discussed D. Littrell's protest letter to the City Council re a $300,000.00 giveaway to the owners of the Windsor Hotel but he still did not disclose who the other two owners are if Scott Brown is not an owner as he claims.
And does the registered agent McEntee own part of the Hotel? Harmer's explanation would indicate that McEntee is only a Utah resident needed by the 3 California owners of the Windsor as they don't qualify to be a Registered Agent..
Are the other two owners Gadi Lesham and Mori Lesham?...... They already own a lot of property in downtown Ogden near the Frontrunner location. Someone pulled some strings to allow them to do that without public notice of property for sale by Ogden City.
The only person who could have attempted to pull that off is Mayor Godfrey.
Whether Scott Brown is in on the Windsor giveaway or not he IS part owner or owner of the Two-Bit Condo Project. At least that was his story when he went before the Zoning Commission a few days ago for waivers of zoning.
Whenever Brown's name comes up the Sniff Patrol detectors should go off big-time.
Maybe I'm a "one issue voter", but my issue is open space and preservation of the benches.
In reading the candidate material on this Web site, right now I'm leaning for
Niel Hansen, Mayor
Amy Wicks
Jim Freed
Dirk Youngberg
Thank you to all the nonmembers of the Godfrey Ring who are running, but the thing is, I can't tell what you stand for from reading your campaign materials.
If you want to preserve our benches, why not say so?
I need to start collecting yard signs for my properties.
Tell It Straight:
Mr. Harmer did name all three California investors. I didn't include all the names because, scribbling rapidly as I was, I'm not sure I got them right. Here is what I think I heard [spelling conjectural]: Michaels, Kay and Sheldon. No Lesham was among the investors Mr. Harmer listed. Not being sure I heard the names correctly, I didn't include them in my summary. Still not sure I have them right above. But in any case, Harmer listed all three and no Lesham was among them. I'm sorry I wasn't able to be more accurate.
Curm:
Good point about the mayor's including inflation in the streetcar cost but not the gondola. Also, for years now, he's been including a contingency margin in the streetcar cost but not the gondola. The 2005 estimate of $100 million for the streetcar includes a 30% contingency margin. The 2004 estimate of $23 million for the gondola includes no contingency margin (and also omits the final leg across WSU as well as other details like elevated stations on Harrison to allow cars to drive underneath).
I could go on and on. What's this about a 60-foot right of way for the streetcar? Even at the stations I don't see how it could be that much. But rather than arguing for years over whether the impacts on Harrison would be prohibitive, we could spend a rather small amount of money (tens of thousands) to commission a study of just this particular issue, and put it to rest one way or the other. Mick Crandall of UTA suggested this at a meeting not long ago.
Who's: Don't be too hard on the council for not arguing. They've learned that the mayor doesn't listen so there's really no point.
By the way, I see that I screwed up in my 11:26 post. In the second paragraph, the parenthetical "(not enough riders)" should have been after the word unsuccessful in the second part of the sentence. Probably everyone's figured that out by now but still I apologize.
Just a couple of items I found noteworthy last night. Harmer's list of owners,partners or whatever you want to call them was not a complete list, it was more worded as includes. It was also interesting when asked about the prior owner's wishes or desire for this in Harmer's words "critical property", he simply says "he never asked for help". So thru out the hard selling of giving the money to the new owners Harmer stated over and over that this property has allways been one of the RDA's top priorities and they knew all along that they'd have to provide financial assistance to restore the building, but never once approached the previous owner with an offer.
As for the budget opening, finding an extra $ 100,000 they can now give the new owners, this money comes from another department within the city, I would suggest that since this money is available and not needed where it came from, why not put it toward the gang unit or Marshall White Center programs. These guys must have plenty of money, they want to add another story to this building, Brown while at BIC all ready has promised them $ 76,000, Harmer's department has $100,000 for them, thats more than they deserve all ready.
Now for lying little matty's disengenuous portion of the show. Anyone there that thought they heard any conciliatory statement come out of his mouth, needs to get a check-up, to see if their ears connect to their brain. Clearly he's still seeing the council at fault for any confussion the public my suffer on transportation. He's stalling all discussion til post election, and making some council members question not only modes, but corridors. Any furthering of the steps all ready taken were met with roadblocks, lying little matty truely was a naysayer last night. When it was suggested that the $247.000 fed money be used, he quickly pointed out that this money was laundered,(exchanged) and was now state UTA money. He then suggested that any studies could be done in house, without consultants, thus saving the citizens a few bucks. He also suggested that the city could fund and build its own transit system if he wanted to. I think he still believes he can deliver that money to the vest wearing thorazine sedated dude, some how. One thing was clear, he didn't want the council to touch it.
Dear Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey:
Did Curt THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE Geiger say it was okay to go potty after last night's meeting?
Your poor pee-pee!
Why didn't the gentleman who was exposed to Short-deck Bobby Geiger's fraudulent pretenses (Short-deck posed as a newspaper reporter in order to retrieve a letter-writer's work phone number and harass him) call the cops and prosecute the whacko? THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
Ogden gets a compliment... I think...
Athletes are in town for the XTERRA Triathelon, and one of them, interviewed in the SL Trib, had this to say about Our Fair City:
Ogden, professional triathlete Melanie McQuaid of Victoria, British Columbia, said Thursday, "has all the beauty of cities like Boulder, without the pretensions."
That's a compliment, right?
The whole story, by Kristin Moulton headlined XTERRA lets Ogden show off with triathlon is good ink for O-Town and worth a read. It can be found here.
Suds run Saturday?
You know, my triathelon days are long past, and the heat being what it is, I wasn't about to stand around outside in the sun watching other athletes work up a sweat competing. But then, I don't think the XTERRA people were particularly counting on my demographic [let's just say my latest issue of the AARP Geezer's Monthly arrived today].
However, reports are there will be tomorrow evening a Pacifico Beer Pavilion in operation downtown as part of the festivities. I think I may have to drop in for a bit. This sort of thing [public beer gardens] in downtown Ogden needs to be encouraged, and so it appears that, ever ready as I am to assist in making Ogden a happen' place, tipping back a brew or two tomorrow evening is a civic duty.
Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey never threatened me personally, but his policies threaten my OTown. Short-deck, on the other hand, ...
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
Have fun tomorrow, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon. Ask your pal Curt THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE Geiger if he'll lay off the onion rolls so you can discuss the relative merits of gondolas from block to block, and how, if we build a silly gondola to nowhere and eradicate the OTown squirrel population, we will all be saved! God bless Wayne "Thorazine" Peterson and his famed Squirrel Patrol!
Curm, that was a compliment the lady was paying to Ogden. Funny thing is, as she points out out Ogden is great because it is was it is, NOW. Lying little matty, potato nose, short deck and any other drinkers of the gondola, change at all cost, visionary hallucinogenic KOOL-AID, would destroy exactly what she likes about the place. Thank God were not Boulder, and hopefully we never will be.
What I think she's really saying though is, Ogden's a great place to stay and party, all their events are up in Ogden's Hole and Snow Basin. So my question still stands, for anyone that would please offer an explanation. What's HIGH ADVENTURE RECREATION and how does it pertain to Ogden?
Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled they want to have their gig here, it's great, we can enjoy their free music and Beer garden, something not available for locally sponsored events too often.
Just more of lying little matty's hypocritical arbitrary policy application.
Just think of what a great place this will be, once we're rid of him.
Funny things about these gondola freaks: they are dumb; they like onions; they like gondolas; they think a Thorazine-addled, vest-wearing douchewad is going to save our town!; they are dumb; they are dumb. Do the math. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
Can anyone explain to me why Godfrey has a picture of Ogden valley (not Ogden city) on his campaign website?
And English teacher, I notice that Eccles has corrected his website: it no longer reads "aleve the conjestion", but now says "reduce the conjestion." I guess he doesn't know the diff between g and j.
Curmudjeon, a report on tonight's beer garden would be well recieved here.
has godfrey, thru his locked and lying lips divulged his campaign people yet?
I wonder how much Val Southwick and Vescor have contributed to the mayor's campaign? At least we know where some of the stolen investor's money has gone to. Now if investigators could only find the other missing $200,000,000.
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