Right on schedule, Friday morning has rolled around once again, so we thought we'd launch a weekend kickoff discussion by devoting the top paragraphs of this space to a couple of items that have been simmering on the Weber County Forum back-burner since early this week.
Lawn Sign Wars. We've had a few comments in earlier comments sections about the mysterious disappearance of non Godfrey-branded 2007 election candidate lawn signs, and the sudden proliferation of the veritable dandelion patch of those gawdawful Boss Godfrey signs, which are suddenly blooming throughout the East Bench neighborhoods of our beloved Emerald City. Lawn sign vandalism is nothing new in Emerald City of course. We get reports of instances of it during every election season. Earlier this week however we received a report with a unique twist. As you'll read below, one mayoral candidate, Neil Hansen, seems to have possibly caught a perpetrator red-handed:
In that connection, we obtained an interesting public document earlier this week. We post it without further editorial comment, except to say that we think it may shed some light on the above-mentioned "lawn sign disappearance mystery."
It will be interesting to follow this story, as it winds its way into the courts system. Indeed, it will be interesting to see whether it winds up in the court system at all.
Best Ogden Lawn Signs. Secondly -- and sticking to the lawn sign topic for the moment -- we include to the right a less than perfect photo image of a most excellent mayoral campaign lawn sign, planted smack dab in the middle one Emerald City citizen-activist's front yard. Our crack Weber County Forum team of award-winning photojournalists (we gave ourself an award this morning, just as the Std-Ex does) captured the image yesterday, while prowling the Emerald City east bench like Diogenes the Cynic, searching in vain for a lawn sign of a candidate other than Boss Godfrey, Royal Eccles and Kent Petersen. We'll also offer that we agree in substance with the political message expressed in this very creative use of a white bed sheet. "Anybody but Godfrey" is one danged fine political motto, we think.Tourist Trap Hot-spot. We also spotlight here a front page article appearing in this morning's Standard-Examiner, reporting that Emerald City is now an "officially recognized" tourist hot spot. Hotel receipts and tax revenues are up for the year, thanks in part to a new "transient tax" -- and aggressive room rate gouging, of course. We suppose this story is good news for Ogden however, now that we're
Godfrey-lemming Endorsement. We'll also direct our readers' attention to the latest Godfrey Letter Mill candidate endorsement letter, which points to the website of Royal "Pain" Eccles, Blessed Boss Godfrey's personally-ordained candidate for the open At-large Council Seat "C." This one's a true work of art. In apparent awareness of the Std-Ex policy against publication of candidate endorsement letters, this "masterpiece" of Godfreyite misdirection is cunningly framed as a candidacy withdrawal announcement. "What's the matter with these Godfreyites anyway," we ask. Don't they realize that this particular Std-Ex policy is regularly ignored by Std-Ex editors, and honored most often in its breach? Like all Godfreyites, these guys don't get out much, except for the Gondola Cult meetings, that is.
Community Bitch Session. And as a demonstration of our WCF community-mindedness we link below notice of a public meeting which will be held next week. Emerald City residents who've grown accustomed to having gravel and chunks of rusty metal dribbling out their culinary watertaps have been graciously offered an invitation to gather together with selected Emerald City officials to "spout off" about the condition of our water system. Lumpencitizens who believe that Boss Godfrey has completely dropped the ball in re our city water infrastructure should definitely put this one on their calendars and plan to attend. Don't forget your pitchforks and torches.
That's it for today, gentle readers.
Time for Weber County Forum's own to blow off some pre-weekend steam.
Update 8/25/07 7:32 a.m. MT: Emerald City Council communications specialist Chad Phares has transmitted to us a FAQ sheet PDF , concerning the August 28 town meeting mentioned in yesterday's above article. Our perusal of this informational document reveals that the city administration is indeed apparently on the verge of implementing a wholesale fee increase in monthly Emerald City water rates. Having since the year 2005 frittered away (to the Salomon Center Project) BDO revenue which had been previously and prudently earmarked for water and sewer infrastructure improvements, Boss Godfrey now evidently intends to play "catch-up," and impose substantial new taxes upon the citizens of our city, under the mendacious label - increased water rates. So much for Godfrey's "no new taxes" claim. If the citizens desire a properly-functioning water & sewer infrastructure they'll pay extra. Godfrey will blame it all on the council, of course.
88 comments:
Our water tastes like crap! Actually, it tastes like algae or something. It stinks. Does anyone know why?
I guess I should go to the bitch session.
Marv:
Say what? As a connoisseur of Geigeriana, I'm intrigued by this iceberg's tip. If there was any previous news of Bob's defenestrations, military, civic, and political, on this Forum, I plead ignorance. Details! Details!
That's just great, If this is the kind of actions and people that Mayor Godfrey has Idolizing him, it ought to send a message loud and clear, it's time to vote the bum out of office.
Personally I find Ogden's water to be of very good quality.
As far as Bobby taking down yard signs, does this surprise anyone? I haven't seen Bob for awhile and would like to go to a Godfrey rally. I'm feeling a case of Godfrey sycophant withdrawal coming on.
Hooray to Neil for filing a police report and following up. I hope someone will come forward and report being shaken down by Godfrey - I'm confident he is, or has been, doing shakedowns.
How about a betting pool for Ogden Mayor? (Money goes into a pool, winners divide losers' money, WFC takes 10% off the top.) I'd love to take some cash off the people who think Godfrey is going to win. Let's get Gadi to spend his money on something other than defense lawyers.
Rudi:
Aw, c'mon. The story about Ogden drawing more summer visitors to outdoors events and opportunities is good ink. Tourist trap? I don't think so. I thought it was fun to have XTERRA here. I thought it both interesting and good for the city to have athletes from lots of out of state places, their friends, families and XTERRA people in town for a while. Certainly Junction City and Weber County innkeepers were happy. And the awards night downtown event, beer garden and all, was shaping up into a fun evening 'til the rains came. I hope they all come back. I've been to real tourist traps, Rudi. [All together now, everyone say "Pigeon Forge, TN"]. Ogden definitely is not one.
But I fear readers may have missed a key implication of the SE story about Ogden as a summer "hot spot." It is this: as Ogden goes, so goes Weber County. It's the County that benefited most from the hotel tax jump, etc. If Ogden prospers, the County benefits. Which the County commissioners and sundry mayors of smaller surrounding towns on WACOG may wish to keep in mind when pondering whether they ought to support Ogden-based projects... oh, say, like, just by way of example, the oft-studied, oft-recommended transit corridor between downtown Ogden, WSU and McKay Dee Hospital.
No surprise about the vandalism of Neil's signs.
Jeske had more than 100 stolen, removed and thrown away.
About two dozen were tossed on my yard the nite before the election...all the signs that lined Taylor (on way to Dee Event Center) and signs that anyone would read while driving to vote there.
Soemtimes Burdett's signs were put up where Jeske's had been!
These people are thugs and bums.
Good for Neil for filing a report on junior...what a brat. He should be in juvenile hall....isn't that his real age?
T'row the bum out!
Sharon,
I note Jeske won anyway . . .
Like I said, let the hard money betting begin.
danny,
Are you serious? You can't smell or taste the malodor in the water? Am I the only one?
It smells and tastes like mold or algae. I don't even cook with it unfiltered any more.
This is the way I see things in the Godfrey Camp. IF Bobby is working for him then the Boss should take responsibility for what his worker is doing, after all he does have Godfrey signs. So that means Godfrey knows that he is working for him. Now that he has been identified as a law breaker, what is the boss going to do. Fire him from the camp, or condone the action and let it keep going? So which is it Godfrey, allow crime to happen under your watch or are you going to put a stop to all of this theft? The power is yours to choose or we will at the booth.
Native,
I've heard folks complain about the water, but my water is very good. In fact, it's the best city water I can remember (compared to other places.)
I don't know why there is this discrepancy between my experience and others'.
But I do feel our infrastructure (water and sewer transportation, aka "pipes", have been neglected.) I spent some time downtown this morning. I can't believe what little $100 million in public debt has bought.
You know the drill by now, Curmudgeon:
1) Your blogmeister kicks the discussion off with a few crabby comments, then,
2) Our gentle readers round off the rough corners with their own analysis.
heheheh...
Haven't been on in over six months. Glad to see you whackjobs are still at it.
bored:
whackjobs?
I guess that explains what's kept you busy the last six months.
Don't quite know what to make of this police report on young Bobby Geiger's latest escapade. He does sometime seem a little bit too frisky for his, and his mayor/hero's, own well being. I do like him, but really, has the man no self restraint?
The thing that I found most troubling about the police report was at the beginning, in the printed form section, where it listed the victim's race as Caucasian/White. The next item down in the form asks for the victim's "Ethnicity", and in this case it is listed as "Non-Hispanic"!
I guess a whole lot could be made of this. Does it some how indicate a built in racism in the OPD?
If the victim is Caucasian/White doesn't it stand to reason that they are not hispanic? No one in this incident is hispanic, so why does it even enter in to the report to begin with? Even if there were a hispanic involved, would it have made any difference at all? Is this standard practice for the OPD to declare in all police reports whether any one involved is hispanic or not? Is big brother now tracking all hispanics?
Why didn't this report indicate that the victim was "Non-Asian" for instance or "Non-English" or "Non-Swedish"?
Shouldn't all of us lilly white boy's driver's licenses also list us as "Non-Hispanic". Has Ogden, under Godfrey and Greiner turned into a hispanic phobic town where all official reports declare if there is any brown blood or hot spice in our genetic makeup?
It's a stat collected by the state-white(hispanic/non-hispanic),black(hispanic/non-hispanic), native american, asian etc.
i'm bored:
I'll bet that's a damn lie you just told. I'm willing to bet you've been here more recently than six months ago.
Why would I wager that? 'Cause WHACKJOBS are IRRESISTABLE. And you if you don't believe that, just go find a hot chick over 5'8" and ask her about her last three boyfriends.
Huh J-Dub (whackjob extraordinaire)?
Oz:
You wrote If the victim is Caucasian/White doesn't it stand to reason that they are not hispanic? No one in this incident is hispanic, so why does it even enter in to the report to begin with? Even if there were a hispanic involved, would it have made any difference at all? Is this standard practice for the OPD to declare in all police reports whether any one involved is hispanic or not? Is big brother now tracking all hispanics? Why didn't this report indicate that the victim was "Non-Asian" for instance or "Non-English" or "Non-Swedish"?
Well, you've opened up a whole can full of dicey matters, Oz. But one can be easily dealt with, I think. No, it is not obvious that if a vic is Causasian/White he or she is necessarily not Hispanic. Customarily, peninsular Spaniards [i.e. European Spaniards] are considered Caucasian/White but also "Hispanic." [Which topic is absolutely guaranteed get you into a major argument in lots of academic places over whether "Hispanic" designates culture or race. Or should. Why, I've seen Professors get so worked up over this at conventions that they spilled their sherry or chardonnay. Same argument, different version, over whether "Jewish" is properly a religious designator or an ethnic/racial one.]
As for using such designators like "Hispanic" or "Non-Hispanic" on police reports, I suppose the rationale is practicality. The perp in this case is not known. Presumably, if a police report includes a description of the [alleged] perp, it must include as much information narrowing the search as practicable. The major non-while cohort in Ogden is non-white Hispanic, so including that as a descriptor doesn't bother me much. There would be no point, from a practical POV, reporting "non Swede, non Lithuanian, non-English" etc. since they are not racial/ethnic descriptors.
From my POV whatever descriptors the police find helpful in narrowing the pool of possible perps is justifiable. Similarly, knowing that a crime was Hispanic on Non-Hispanic, or White on Hispanic may provide some useful information down the line. [Is a pattern of criminal conduct vis-a-vis race emerging? And so on. Knowing in a particular instance, for example, that a crime involved non-Hispanic White perp and a non-Hispanic White victim would seem to rule out, if gang activity is suspected, the Hispanic-centered gangs. And so on. I imagine the goal of a police report is to get down all the raw information that might prove useful later. If it doesn't, nothing lost. But if it would have proven useful, and it's not there.... Ah, that's another matter.]
A dicier question is whether, in reporting crimes, newspapers should as a matter of course include the race of the criminal involved [presuming he's been apprehended]. The big issue in Louisiana over this was was the race of the person arrested legitimately part of the story? In reporting, for example, a bank robbery, is it important for readers to know the robber was black? Or the he was white? Different papers do it differently and I'm not sure if I were an editor which side I'd come down on.
Chewy post, Oz. Thanks.
Curmudgeon
In this particular case the racial/ethnic information on the police report was all about the victim, not the perpatrator. So it doesn't seem to be information necessary to identify and capture said perp.
I can see your point, to a certain point. However, in this instance I still find it strange that this racial/ethnic information is pertinent, especially as it pertains to the victim. If the victim is Caucasian/White/White is it a more serious offense and will more effort be made to capture the perp than if the victim were Caucasian/White/Hispanic?
If the victim or the perp had an English or Swedish accent I think it would have been very appropriate, with your line of reasoning, to have identified his ethnicity. After all, we all know that white European descenants are far more dangerous and capable of violence than our darker skinned brothers and sisters. For proof of that just consider the suspect in this particular case!
Incidently, the perp in this instance was known from the start to be a short bat shit crazy white boy by the name of Bobby, who presumably is one of the leaders of a particularly dangerous gang of Emerald City street thugs known as the Godfreyites. They have been known to terrorize innocent citizens who do no more to deserve this treatment than disagree with them politically. They are also reported to have a common membership role with another particularly insidious and secretive cabal known as the Gondolistas who have been attempting, for some time now, to quitely and secretly rob all citizens of the city of their park lands, open spaces and millions in cash. Very dangerous group if you ask me! Much more so than a "couple of hooligans", so described by the mayor, who are running around shooting each other.
Oz, there is a very simple explaination for all of this.
Short deck bobby is in charge of all these gang affiliated signs, the gondola cult. royal eccles, kent peterson, blain johnson and of course lying little matty himself.
Now other than the handfull of cultist remaining, these guys would have no need for signs, so, potato nose and co. have come up with a brilliant strategy, involving g-train and other distraught, disillutioned, realtors. I have noticed that alot of this signage has been placed in the yards of vacant houses, for sale or rent.
Apparently short deck was thinking outside the box, figuring every realtor and absentee landlord was a lying little mattyista, this is evidenced by his calling a realtor,not the property owner.
If it wasn't for all the empty houses they wouldn't need very many signs, other than ward members that I can only guess, have been intimidated or just have their heads in the sand.
Do you think despite all these unethical shenanigans these guys will run on the religion card?
Seems to me they are all liars cheats and thieves, an embarrasment to any religious leaning person.
If you read the link to the actual police report you will read that the Mayor's bunch is after Mike Moyal again for having dared to have a Neil Hansen sign on his Millstream Motel property.
Be sure to read and digest what the caller told the manager of the Millstream Motel. The threat was all about what the Mayor had done for this city and that if Mike wasn't careful the Mayor could make a couple of phone calls and get that place shut down.
This effort to shut him down has been used by the Mayor on Mike Moyal earlier on Mike's property on the other side of Washington Blvd.
And the Mayor himself told the owner of Teazer's not to sell his business to Mike when Mike was just moving to Ogden.
Mike just doesn't fit the Mayor's concept of who he wants moving into Ogden.
You've got to be a Cris Peterson or a Gadi Lesham or an Ernest Health parolee to fit Godfrey's parameters for admittance.
Ogden voters have a penchant for voting for the new name or face on the block to fill a City office position.....last year it was Jeske and Glasmann. And look at what happened with Glasmann....
Wonder if it will be Van Hoosen this time around? She hasn't opened her mouth to say two sentences on where she stands on issues that I can find.
I have never even seen her and much less know what she plans to do to or for Ogden. Does anybody else know her leanings toward more RDA giveaway of tax incentives or if she can read a Balance Sheet or a Budget proposal?
She could be a real shocker if she wins and starts telling us her true agenda. I can't see that being a third grade teacher gives her much expertise on handling the job of Mayor.
Anybody making odds on this one?????
oldtimer:
Really? How 'bout a two-bit slumlord? That ought to qualify you to be Mayor, huh? Well, hell, at least he's qualified to borrow money and collect rent. Which is about how he's run this town.
But you know what? You miss the point. It's this: Van Hooser's qualified to not piss off half the town and sink our asses into debt without improving our infrastructure. She's qualified to not sell off our public parkland and open space. She's qualified to know the difference between a gondola to nowhere that serves tourists and public transportation system that serves the public. Shall I go on?
I'll make some odds for you: if you add up everyone who votes Hansen, everyone who votes for Van Hooser, and everyone who votes for Anyone-But-Godfrey... it will add up to more votes than everyone who votes for Godfrey. How you like them odds?
Oz:
You wrote: Don't quite know what to make of this police report on young Bobby Geiger's latest escapade. He does sometime seem a little bit too frisky for his, and his mayor/hero's, own well being. I do like him, but really, has the man no self restraint?
I suspect, Oz, that he's what is called a "true believer." Someone who is convinced on a variety of issues that he has the Light, the Truth and the Way, and that therefor opposition to what he wants is not legitimate, and therefor he can act to achieve the ends he knows to be the right ones in whatever way he deems necessary. Replacing his candidate's opponents signs with his candidates' signs is in the public interest, you see, because his candidate would be best, he is absolutely certain, for Ogden. Trivial matters like the laws cannot be allowed to impede reaching the ends he knows, he absolutely knows, would be best.
When I run into people like that, and I've met a few down the years, some in politics, I can't help recalling some wag's definition of a fanatic: a fanatic is someone who is doing what he is sure God would do, if only God had all the facts.
Native and other wishful dreamers:
I would like to think your analysis of the political situation in Ogden was correct. However, I am afraid you may be off the mark on this.
I don't think Mr. Godfrey's reputation is nearly as bad with the general voting public as it is here on this blog. Most citizens do not pay that much attention to the details like the political wonks herein do.
Most people in Ogden are not aware of how sleazy the mayor really is. All most of them will know when they go to the polls is what the respective campaigns tell them in the weeks ahead. Godfrey will be riding a slick success story he has sold to the public and a lot of them will go into the voting booth with the mistaken notion that he has had a very successful run so far. Most will buy his campaign message of turning Ogden around and single handedly reducing crime. Most will have completely forgotten his ill advized attempt to give the golf course to his buddy Peterson, and his lies about the High Tech financing and his Van Gate fiasco. The public has a very short memory after all.
Very few people will know of his secret deals, his insider deals to cronies, his losing deals. No one will know about the alleged criminal activities of his closest friends, people that are being enriched at the public's expense thanks to the mayor. Very few will truly understand the crushing hundred million dollar debt he has created. Few will know that all the citizens are on the line for this massive debt and that the only thing we have to show for it is a bowling alley and a penny arcade.
None of this damning information will be known by the average voter as it appears that the mayor's opponents are too scared to tell the truth about the guy because they think it will turn people off if they "go negative".
I think this is a huge mistake. I believe that if any of the candidates for any of the offices exposed the truth about Godfrey the people would look at it as a great public service and vote for them in return. I believe that the people of Ogden respect politicians that have the guts to tell it like it is, to stand up and call bull shit on bull shitters.
I do not mean that candidates should make things up or twist things around to cast a negative light on the mayor where it is not warranted. I think if they just laid out the truth in a very simple and direct manner the voters would understand and not be turned off. After all, it is not "going negative" if it is true! I do not advocate slinging mud, but I do believe in slinging the truth.
You just cannot take out a dirty fighter like Godfrey by being a patsy with kid gloves, and you don't win gun fights with squirt guns. Playing nice is for Sunday School and Kindergarden not Ogden power politics. Godfrey certainly doesn't play nice, now does he? He and his gang "go negative" all the time against every enemy, real and imagined. Look how they totally crusified the cop Jones and the Martinez guy! They play very dirty even when it is not election season, and even when they don't have to.
The above is why Godfrey will win in September and November. He is a real pro at playing the political game. He is like the energizer bunny, he never rests. He is scheming and plotting at this very moment. He is working, and will work tirelessly through the entire election season. There will be no recess in the Godfrey camp until the day after the November election. No stone will go unturned, no lie will go untold.
Take it to the bank my friends, this race is all but a done deal. Like most of you, I wish it weren't true, but that is the way I see it shaping up.
Oz:
I'm not sure it's as done a deal as you suggest, though those who post here claiming Hizzonah is finished, etc. are, as you note, way off the mark. [Never under estimate a well-funded, experienced, successful campaigner... especially if he is an incumbent.] And you're also write about the great majority of potential voters not being very well informed about city hall goings on, and not generally caring much about local politics [unless their particular ox is being gored by the Mayor, or they think it is.]
Also seems to me that some of the candidates have attacked the Mayor's record and the sleeze in his office. I think Rep. Hansen has, for example. The problem for the opponents, though, is also money. With the exception of Hansen, and to a much lesser extent, Van Hooser, they are not elected public officials and so cannot command press attention simply by right of that fact. It's hellishly expensive to run newspaper ads [and most voters don't subscribe anyway.] TV ads are out entirely since they'd have to pay for coverage over the whole of the SL market too... none of which will do them any good at all. So it's tough getting facts out when you're not well funded. Besides, a lot of the sleeze is old now, and difficult to explain, especially at some distance. [Try explaining the Reid separation bonus matter briefly to someone who has no idea who Reid is or was, no idea of what City separation pay procedures were then, etc. etc. and who generally, as you note, doesn't much follow local administrative news anyway.]
Then too there's the question of turnout, of the "motivated vote". A lot of the people you're talking about, Oz... the ones not much plugged into current events... also are the ones who usually don't vote at all. [All the figures I've seen say that both voting and knowledge about news are pretty clearly correlated to economic class: the more you make, the more likely you are to be up on local affairs and to vote; the less you make, the less likely you are to know what's happening in the city and to vote.] So those who are engaged, up on Administration practices, who follow current events [local] are the ones likely to show up in the greatest numbers on election day. That I think mitigates your pessimism some.
Finally, it is always possible --- and given the mis-steps of Godfrey so far, creating [usually needlessly] mini-scandals --- that the Mayor will truly screw up between now and November in a very public way. That a scandal will erupt and bring what's happening forcefully to the public's attention. [The one issues that does seem to have caught the public's attention is "the gondola." And from all indications, they don't like the idea.]
So while I agree generally with what you said above, I don't think it's as much of a lock as you seem to, and it's well worth making the fight.
Good news for Ogden and kudos to Autoliv. SE has the story up on its free website here.
Which reminds me that in many cities, companies "adopt" schools, and help out their adopted school with volunteer labor, paint jobs, some needed equipment the school budget won't cover... sometimes things as simple as reams of copy paper because the school budget doesn't provide enough for teachers to make the copies they need for their classes throughout the term. [Where I used to live, teachers often told me that one of the things they spent most on out of their own pocket was for copies they were not allowed to make at school because of budget cuts. Don't know if it's that way here.]
Anyway, if Ogden Schools haven't already implemented the "adopt a school" idea --- and they may have, I don't know --- it's something they might consider. Very much along the lines of the Autoliv story in the SE today.
Good on ya, Autoliv. Keep it up.
Oz-
Think again about what I said. If you add up all the votes Hansen and VH get, they will add up to more that what Godfrey gets. I didn't say that either VH or Hansen will outpoll Godfrey. I just said that in the general, Godfrey's opponent will win. And probably not by much.
Look at the last election. Godfrey didn't win by all that much. He's pissed off WAY many more people since then.
I have a little more faith in the citizenry than you.
Have you been following the plight of the older woman in Orem/Provo who has been jailed for not watering her lawn?
This is going to give Mayor Godfrey a new idea to implement another category of fines pertaining to the non-watering of yards.
only in ogden said...
I am fascinated by the Police Report on the theft of Neil Hansen's political signs by Bob
Geiger who is working for Mayor Godfrey's re-election.
This is a good opportunity for Rep. Neil Hansen to introduce legislation pertaining to theft of political signs.
The practice is disgusting but Utah law doesn't make the consequences as punitive as they should be. Every election time hundreds of signs are destroyed by the opposing side.
Since Neil Hansen caught Geiger in the act of taking down the opposition's property on private property belonging to the sign owner's daughter and son-in-law I hope this comes under a different Utah statute that has some teeth in it.
I wonder how the Justice Court Judge will handle this one and stay on Godfrey's team.
This lawn-sign theft and indictment of Geiger as the perpetrator is what causes me to discount the percieved popularity of Godfrey. As I mentioned previously, I doubt that all of the people who carry Godfrey signs will actually vote for him. How many were coerced into carrying a lawn sign? How many of them resent this coercion?
Why has this not been printed in the Standard Examiner????
They seemed not to hesitate to print the story where Godfrey was threatened.
Rudi, can you sent the report to the Salt Lake papers? Maybe they will report pertinent items that happen in Ogden, even when they show Godfrey in his true light.
I can’t understand why there is not more uproar over this issue. Mr. Geiger committing criminal acts on the behalf of a sitting mayor is not news worthy?
Hey, not to thro gas on a fire, but, why is lying little matty spending money promoting Pineveiw resivoir? Nobody kayaks Pineveiw. Is this just some Ogden day at the damor what? Don't even tell me it's got something to do with the still unanswered, undefined, HIGH ADVENTURE RECREATION.
He's spending tax money for bands, boat rentals, the whole shebang, in Huntsville. And it's some first time deal. What's with that?
Oh, I forgot to mention, curt geiger's nose got the big photo and write-up in the business section of this mornings paper.
Anonymous 4:25
Your a coward just like Godfrey and Greiner.
You must be taking one of Rush Limbough's oxi-cottens.
Neil Hansen will never be mayor of Ogden. My cat will get elected before that happens.
He has ZERO credibility.
("anonymous" comment re-posted by administrator)
Regarding the upcoming primary election:
Of course I have my own preferences, but I would remind all here at WCF of one political truism.
Ogden primary elections usually have a turnout that is quite low. When turnout is low, elections are won by the side with the highest level of passion.
Let's keep the level of passion high, regardless of which candidate you support.
Hmmmm Cat lover, what is your cat's position on the Gondola and Park giveaway? Would your cat clean house at city hall? I'm definately interested in a viable candidate to vote for that would do the right thing and be honest with the folks here in the land of Oz.
Thanks for checking in, Cat Lover. For a number of months we've assumed you Godfrey lemmings were all "mutes."
It's always nice to hear evidentially-unsupported pronouncements from the godfrey "faithful" -- the Godfrey "brain-trust," to coin a phrase.
We suggest that you read our posting rules before you post the next time, though. We cut you a pass this first time -- because you're "brand new" here.
(Just a helpful hint from yer old pal, Rudi.)
Thanks for your anticipated cooperation in the future.
~ ~ ~ A Trip Down Memory Lane in Ogden ~ ~ ~
Today’s Journey: Will Godfrey Win?
Years ago there was a mayor named Clifford Goff. He was very LDS, spent most of his time going to meetings, hardly ever saw his kids, and was mayor of Ogden in the 1980’s.
He decided that the city should tear down the buildings on Washington Blvd and build an indoor mall. The public, it seemed, didn’t like the idea, but then again, since when is the public right? And Cliff knew HE was smart, because after all, he was the mayor. So Cliff got the council to do it anyway.
When he ran for reelection folks were sure he’d win. On his side were the Chamber of Commerce, the bankers, the realtors, the cement and gravel folks, and all the other people who spend their time kissing up to each other instead of working at their broken down businesses and spending time with their drug addled, disease spreading, illegitimate children dropping, undisciplined and ignored families.
Cliff’s opponent was a man named Scott Sneddon. I went to one of their debates. Cliff was very dynamic – he talked about his dynamic vision for Ogden. Did I mention he was very dynamic and had a dynamic vision, what with the new mall? Scott on the other hand, was the picture of Mr. Nobody – quiet, unassuming, nice guy. I voted for Scott, and he won the election.
Twenty years later, a mayor named Matt Godfrey came along. His was opposed by dynamic, well funded candidates who were supported by the Chamber of Commerce and other suck ups. Matt was quiet and unassuming, and he said he was also fed up with the cronyism in Ogden. Like Scott, this quiet man was elected.
But soon after, Matt became a dynamic man with a vision (one given to him by the Chamber of Commerce, but the way.) Matt decided that the last mayor with a dynamic vision of massive debt-fueled spending needed to have his dynamic, visionary mall TORN DOWN! The pubic was against it, but then again, since when is the public right? And Matt knew HE was smart, because after all, he was the mayor. So Matt got the council to do it anyway.
Well, right in the middle of it all, there was a city council election. To Matt’s surprise, his two lap dogs lost, and the one guy who had concerns about Matt, won. Dorrene Jeske was one of the people who won. She said she couldn’t believe it. I would have been surprised had she not won.
You predictors that Godfrey will win better watch out. Both you and Godfrey consistently underestimate how well informed the Ogden voters are, and how far apart those voters’ opinions are from the scum who seem to so often get control of this city’s government.
(This is why Danny was so urgently interested in seeing some good candidates run, which they are. With good candidates, Godfrey and his followers should be history. The Chamber of Commerce will have to start brainwashing some new people and we will have a few months of better government.)
Baffled:
You wrote: They seemed not to hesitate to print the story where Godfrey was threatened.
Well, with all due respect, there is a rather large difference between a mayor getting a death threat on the one hand, and campaigners for him removing the opposition's campaign signs on the other. I can see why one would be thought important news and the other not. Signs get taken, ripped up, etc. in every election. Mayors do not get death threats that often. I hope.
Usually, however, the signs go missing as a result of action by "person or persons unknown." What makes the latest incident interesting is the police have a complaint filed and two witnesses who have identified the person accused of violating the law. It will be interesting to see if Ogden Police Chief and State Senator Greiner [R-Ogden] has the matter pursued. Or if, instead, his friend the Mayor... you know, the guy who calls him when he's following the wife of a city employee around downtown and wants her license plate run... will convince him to sit on the matter and do nothing.
Curiouser and curioser.
Cat Lover:
You state that Rep. Hansen has "no credibility." I'll merely point out that he has been elected to the state House of Representatives by voters in Ogden several times now. That seems, on its face, to refute your claim that he has "no credibility."
Danny
I think it was Steven Dirks that was behind the gutting of historic down town Ogden and the building of the hidious mall, which of course Godfrey had torn down 25 years later before the RDA debt that was used to finance it was paid out.
Just think of the treasure down town Ogden would be now if we still had those two magnificient blocks of late 1800's architecture to brag about and enjoy! We would be the envy of every town in the west. Dirks ought to be drug out of his hole and hung at the corner of 25th and Washington for the devistation he visited on Ogden in his quest for personal glory.
I also believe that the tax payers of Ogden are still on the hook for that original mall debt.
Debt incidently doesn't mean a thing to these venal empire building politicians as none of them ever have to pay for it themselves, and they are always out of office long before the consequences of the debt reverberate through society. They get the glory of leading the dance but they never have to pay the piper. Godfrey will be long gone while the future citizens of Ogden are still struggling with paying this hundred million dollar obligation he has laid on us.
Ogden Before the First Central-Planning Commissars
"no new taxes"?? Just 'fees'....we clunkheads will be satisfied with no new taxes.
Just like 'this isn't real money'.
Oy vey...this arrogant twerp really does relieve his own scummy scammy remarks, doesn't he?
Relieve should read BELIEVE....as in I believe the mayor is doing everything for our own good....I called him up and he said so.
Hey, Native, I just returned from the finest of OTown's watering holes and didn't read any of the posts, execpt yours about 5'8"... errrhhh, my wife (10 years) who is 5'5" at most. I'm about ready to beat your a??. And I will. C'mon don't subvert my Geigerian paradigm, you douche.
Sharon:
I presume you're talking about the water matters... right? [taxes/fees]
Hope you are able to attend the Council's water meeting at Union Station on the 28th. If not, I imagine between the SE and the rest of the WCF Motley Crew who show up, you should get a reasonably good idea of the goings on... including [I hope] scope of the problem[s] facing Ogden water-wise, the range of possible solutions, and of course, estimated costs and means of raising same. I expect it will be interesting.
Seriously, Native, you're pissing me off ... I will not go Short-deck on you, but drive your ass up east of 32rd and P...
Curm,
Have you read the police report? Did you see that the Mill Stream owner was getting threatened by a representative of the Mayor and that the threat was that the Mayor would use his office to negatively effect the Mill Stream?
How can you possibly justify the Standard not reporting this? All they have to do is send a reporter down to talk to the Mill Stream owner and then talk to the Mayor or his representative. They would have spoken to both sides, unlike they did when the reported the threats on the Mayor.
Curm your constant defense of the Standard, (which is no more that a Godfrey rag), is tiresome and your black & white attitude towards everything is unrealistic. I don’t want to get personal, but I think you should get out of your class room a little more and be exposed to the realities of life. Visit center city at 2am or ride along with a cop. I am sure that it would open your eyes a little bit and expand you views.
I still can't believe anybody honestly buys that lying little matty was threatened with murder. It had to be a figure of speach, otherwise there would have been an arrest and we'd hear about it.
The lying little mayor was probably taking advantage an oportunity he thought he saw and Schwebke took the bait.
Just Friday my partner in a golf match told me he'd kill me if I missed a certain putt that would have cost him a couple bucks. Was he really threatening my life?
Afigure of speach may show some anger or discomfort, what potato nose and short deck have been doing is criminal and shows malice.
Baffled:
You ask: Have you read the police report?
Yes, Baffled, I have.
Did you see that the Mill Stream owner was getting threatened by a representative of the Mayor and that the threat was that the Mayor would use his office to negatively effect the Mill Stream?
As I said, I read the police report.
You ask: How can you possibly justify the Standard not reporting this?
Well, I didn't "justify the SE not reporting this." I simply said arguing that the SE reported a death threat to the Mayor and so should also have reported this was a thin argument, since the two alleged crimes were in no way comparable.
If you can get over your animus to the SE as a "Godfrey rag" --- which conclusion I don't think its reporting over the last months justifies --- perhaps you can think of a few reasons the story has not been reported. Let's deal with timing first. The police report went up on WCF I think Friday afternoon or evening. It contained two allegations, one involving the illegal replacement of Hansen signs with Godfrey signs by Mr. B. Geiger, and the other involving alleged intimidation by an un-named supporter of Mayor Godfrey of a businessman. And you're pissed off because a story didn't appear in the SE Saturday morning?
The matters contained in the police report would have to be checked out. Those named in the report called. This would include Rep. Hansen, the property owner from whose lawn the signs were removed, the businessman who, Rep. Hansen says, reported an attempt by an unnamed supporter of the Mayor to intimidate him. And you think all those people could have been reached, between the SE becoming aware of the report Friday night [and I don't know when it became aware of the police report --- do you? --- and press time that night [with, I think, a deadline four hours earlier than normal because of broken presses --- see Managing Editor Howell's column on the front page of the Top of Weber section this morning.]?
Do you know all the necessary calls were made? Do you know the businessman involved agreed to speak to a reporter and corroborate what the police report says he said? Do you know? [ I don't.] What the paper had, until it could corroborate, was a policeman saying that Hansen said that a businessman said that an un-named "supporter of the Mayor" on the phone tried to intimidate him. If I were an editor, I sure as hell wouldn't go racing to get that in print without some corroboration, or at least some serious attempts to get some, first.
You wrote: All they have to do is send a reporter down to talk to the Mill Stream owner and then talk to the Mayor or his representative. And you're sure, are you, that all this could have been done... the Mayor reached, the businessman reached, Hansen reached --- between the appearance of the report on WCF and press time Friday night? If you are sure, I'd like to know how you are sure.
You wrote: Curm your constant defense of the Standard, (which is no more that a Godfrey rag), is tiresome
Just for the record, I do not constantly defend the SE. I've been strongly critical of much of its political coverage, here, often over the last two years. But if I'm going to have any credibility as a critic of the paper, I also have to come to its defense when it is unreasonable and unfairly criticized, and congratulate the paper when it does a particularly good job. Can't get away, not in good conscience anyway, with bashing only. And anyone who's read the SE's coverage and editorial content over the last six months and concludes it's nothing but "a Godfrey rag" is, seems to me, so blinded by partisanship that their impartiality is suspect. [I can guarantee you the Administration does not think the SE is simply an Administration mouthpiece.]
You wrote: your black & white attitude towards everything is unrealistic.
That's funny, since regularly here I'm criticized for not seeing matters in black and white terms, for my being "too nuanced" in my opinions. And its kind of ironic to have someone who thinks the SE is "t a Godfrey rag" criticize me for "black and white" thinking.
You wrote: I think you should get out of your class room a little more and be exposed to the realities of life. Visit center city at 2am or ride along with a cop.
FYI, I've done both of those things.
Crum:
I like you, but your wrong on this issue.
Almost every person that has run for public office has had death threats. Most people that run for office don't take these threats seriously. Because they aren't serious.
Godfrey has made so many threats against most citizens, that he has every reason to be scared.
Need I remind you what Mayor Godfrey and Chief Senator Greiner the weiner did to Matt Jones. That was no threat it was real.
I also find it fishy that the S E does a report on Mayor Godfrey's death threats. But doesn't ask him why he didn't chase the suspect or fight him to protect his family.
If someone came to my door threatening me and my family? I would have had the guts to take him down. Godfrey has the guts to follow a cops wife around in his car. But doesn't have the guts to protect his own family.
What a coward!! Is the S E also?
Curm,
You wrote:
“As I said, I read the police report.”
“Let's deal with timing first. The police report went up on WCF I think Friday afternoon or evening. It contained two allegations, one involving the illegal replacement of Hansen signs with Godfrey signs by Mr. B. Geiger, and the other involving alleged intimidation by an un-named supporter of Mayor Godfrey of a businessman. And you're pissed off because a story didn't appear in the SE Saturday morning?”
Being that you read the report, you would have seen that it was reported on Monday 08/20/07, not Friday 08/24/07 as you claim. Given that the Standard Examiner has access to all OPD police reports, and had access to this report on Tuesday, you can see that they would obviously have plenty of time to conduct an investigation into it. So your ranting about the time line in your post is nothing more than bullshit and it demonstrates that you need to re-read the report. The Standards has had time to do this and the question is WHY haven’t they?
I will asked you a simple question, after reading the report as thoroughly as you claim, is it news worthy to you? Obviously it was worthy enough for Rudi to put it on this site. Some think that a direct threat to a local business owner is just as news worthy as one threatening the mayor. Some think that a complaint of a sitting mayor abusing his position is at least as news worthy.
I have read your posts for some time know and you speak of all these things that you once did when in another state. That is creditable experience for that state, but not in this city. You need to go out with this city’s police officers and experience what this city is like, first hand. This is something I know you have not done. That way you wouldn’t have to depend reading Standard Examiner and letting them decide on what they want to inform you of.
Just when I thot Schwebke had the makings of a real reporter, he manages to dispel that notion.
His reporting on Gadi Lesham and his plunering of the "riverfront" properties is disgusting.
We don't read that Lesham is under indictment for insurance scamming in CA until nearly the end of the article on the last page of Schwebke's "reporting".
IMHO, that should have been mentioned in the first paragraph!
Just when I tink the SE is going to lay out facts for a change, the big boys there dispel that notion too.
I'm sick of the SE and it's unwillingness to serve the readership.
BTW...divide 1,500,000. by 28 and get the average price Lesham paid for the VALUABLE riverfront properties!
CRONYISM, BACK ROOM DEALS, GODFREY... how many times can you say those words before gagging?
Baffled:
You wrote: Being that you read the report, you would have seen that it was reported on Monday 08/20/07, not Friday 08/24/07 as you claim. Given that the Standard Examiner has access to all OPD police reports, and had access to this report on Tuesday, you can see that they would obviously have plenty of time to conduct an investigation into it. So your ranting about the time line in your post is nothing more than bullshit and it demonstrates that you need to re-read the report.
I wrote about when the report became known... i.e. appeared on WCF. I have no idea if the SE has immediate access to every police report that is filed, or if the SE has someone assigned to get a copy of, and read, every police report that is taken and filed in Ogden. Might be a good question to ask the SE staff. Seems to me to be unreasonable to presume the paper has immediate, or nearly so, knowledge of every police report filed in Ogden. But maybe they do. Perhaps someone reading WCF who works for the SE can let us know.
You wrote: I will asked you a simple question, after reading the report as thoroughly as you claim, is it news worthy to you? Obviously it was worthy enough for Rudi to put it on this site. Some think that a direct threat to a local business owner is just as news worthy as one threatening the mayor. Some think that a complaint of a sitting mayor abusing his position is at least as news worthy.
Sigh. Let me try again. If the business owner involved is willing to go on the record, willing to state on the record to the SE [and perhaps to file a complaint about the incident with the state authority that monitors elections], then yes, I absolutely think it is newsworthy and if I were an editor I'd print it. The key word in the sentence above is "if". I don't know if the the business owner was or is willing to do that. I can think of several reasons he might not be. I notice you, in your reply, did not indicate that you knew he was willing to do it either. If he refuses comment on the matter, then no, there is not yet a newsworthy story, for the SE would be left then reporting on what a policeman said that Hansen said that somebody else [who refuses to confirm it] said that an unknown caller said. Way too tenuous, in my view, to report as news. No corroboration from the merchant, no story. Not without corroboration in some other way. If/when the merchant is willing to go on the record and/or file a complaint, it'd be a story in my paper. Until then, no.
You wrote: You need to go out with this city’s police officers and experience what this city is like, first hand. This is something I know you have not done. That way you wouldn’t have to depend reading Standard Examiner and letting them decide on what they want to.
Couple of points: first, I've lived in Ogden coming up on 5 and a half years now. Not exactly a new arrival. And no, I've not gone riding with Ogden police. Not been invited. But I have in another mid-sized city. And I'm willing to bet riding with the police here on a Friday or Saturday night is very much like riding with police in other mid-sized cities. It's another world out there. People who have never done it, I would agree, have no idea, or not a very good one. But if you think Ogden is somehow unique in having problems with crime, drugs, gangs, an illegal immigrant population, under-staffing, etc. then I think you're wrong. If I get invited to a ride-along, I'll take advantage of it. But I don't think what I'll see will be substantially different than what I've seen elsewhere. But I could be wrong about that, and if so, I will happily say so.
As for "depending on the SE" and "letting them decide" on what to report: got a shocker, for you, Baffled. Every newspaper decides on what it wants to report and what it doesn't. On every paper editors exercise their news-judgment about what goes in and what doesn't and when. Every single one. Furthermore, Ogden does not have its own TV stations and TV news departments. The SE [and occasionally the SL Trib] is the only mass circulation news source Ogdenites have. Please note, most of the main threads on WCF are reactions to something the SE has printed. Certainly, Rudi breaks something on the WCF that the SE later picks up... the Dan S. GRAMA emails is the best recent example. Making the police report public may turn out to be another. But overwhelmingly, the WCF main threads are triggered by, and react to, SE stories.
As I've argued before, the SE is not the paper it could be. It is not an excellent mid-sized paper located in the shadow of a metropolis. But it's not a bad one either. [You want to see bad, read the San Antonio Light . Or The NY Post..] And the SE is improving. Two or three years ago, if I'd had to grade it overall, I'd have given it a C. Now, a B. Still room for lots of improvement. But the notion that the paper is some mindless Godfrey flacksheet is just not sustainable on the evidence. I get the impression, sometimes, from things posted here that some would be happy only if the SE printed exclusively stories, columns, letters and editorials that embarrassed Mayor Godfrey. There are two reasons why the SE can not, and should not do that. First, the Mayor is a Republican elected official, and as we all know, it is damn near impossible to embarrass a Republican elected official. They have no shame. Second, and more important, if the SE did that, printed only anti-Godfrey articles, the paper would be a mindless anti-Godfrey rag and that would be just as bad for Ogden City as it would be if the paper was the mindless pro-Godfrey rag you seem to think [wrongly] that it is.
Subscribe or buy a copy on the stands. That immediately makes you, me and everyone else who does it a fully qualified critic of the paper. Blast 'em when they screw up. I certainly do. But [again] to be credible as a critic, you also have to give them the nod when they do better than average work, and you have to defend the paper's work when it's criticized unfairly.
Or so it seems to me.
SE Stands Up for Free Speech
About 200 newspapers around the country print Berke Breathed's cartoon "Opus." This Sunday, according to Editor and Publisher, at least 25 of those newspaper refused to print the Opus strip out of fear of offending Muslims.
The Standard Examiner printed the strip. [The Opus cartoon 25 cowardly editors refused to print can be found here.]
Kudos to the SE for refusing to be intimidated. "Opus" in the past has, on occasion, offended right-wingers and Christians and Liberals and others, and the SE printed anyway, as it should have. And as it did today.
Good on 'em.
Curm,
You’re officially invited. Contact the Duty Lieutenant @ 629-8036 and let him/her know that you would like to have a ride along. I would suggest a weekend swing shift.
I have lived in this City for over 40 years and have worked its streets for half that. Not exactly a new comer either. But just because I have done this, it doesn’t make me informed of what happens on any other city street that happens to be the same size. I think you assume that it would, but we all know what happens when you assume. It does, however, allow me to be somewhat informed on what happens on our streets, in our city.
I have sent letters to the editor of the Standard that has usually never been printed or at least edited. All, coincidently, were aniti-Godfrey and fell with in the rules set forth for such letters by the Standard. I have been on many crime scenes, actually investigating them, and read the standard the next day and be baffled at what they report. It’s like they were in another city, reporting on another crime. But alas, they were not. Their gumshoe reporters were pressing the crime scene tape next to me and were in front of the line at all the press briefings. It is very clear that they do not write to inform….they sensationalize….they write to serve their own political ends. This is done outside of the normal Editorials.
Did you know that the OPBA contacted the standard, in person and writing letters, prior to the “Blue Flu”. The Standard determined that fact that Mayor Godfrey had pushed a policy through the City Council that would increase the number of citations an officer would have to write to the citizens of Ogden was not news worthy. An Increase of their ticket quota not news worthy!
Every chance that they have the “scoop” on a story that sheds a less than flattering light on Godfrey, they chose not to run it. It is only the pressure from this site and/or the fact that the story was printed in a SLC paper that they are forced to actually report.
I am convinced that in most cases the staff at the Standard gets caught in a situation that they say, “Ahh shit, well, we got to report it now!”
I take your point that every paper decided on what it wants to report, that’s my point as well. The fact remains that out of all the Northern Utah papers, the Standard is poorest at reporting the unbiased facts. What every happened to throwing the facts out there and let the public decide? It has worked well for this site!
I obviously have differing opinions on this issue that you. That’s what great about this forum, those outside you and I can read our posts and come to their own conclusions.
Curm, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you on this. I thank you for the opportunity to finally POST on this site, having read it for some time.
Selective enforcement of free speech is not free speech.
Baffled:
Will take up the offer. And thanks for the information. Is this something any citizen can do, request a ride along?
I defer to your far greater knowledge than mine vis-a-vis the accuracy of the SE's police reporting. Sadly, the tendency to sensationalize, the "if it bleeds it leads" approach, is a nationwide press problem. I've noticed that the SL TV Channels cover Ogden news when there's a gory crash, or murder, or gang shooting or such like. Rarely otherwise. Only thing I'd add is that in my experience, the SE falls a long way from the worst end of the "if it bleeds it leads" spectrum. [The worst being my oft-cited San Antonio Light and NY Post.] Which is not to say the SE doesn't sensationalize crime reporting. As I said, I'll defer to you on that one. You've got far more experience and evidence on that than I do or could.
I do recall the ticket quota story became big news, but I confess I don't recall the chronology of the coverage [i.e. did the SE break it or did it become news by some other means and then the SE covered it]. I do remember [because I was at the Council meeting where it happened] that the SE reported the Firemen's representative claiming his men were offered a better contract arrangement if they would endorse the gondola. So I think, probably the SE's record on this is mixed. An topic on which, as you say, we'll have to agree to disagree.
The puzzling thing for me about the police report matter is not that the SE has not reported on the alleged intimidation of a business owner [and I explained above why I wouldn't report it without corroboration], but the sign-removing aspect of it. Seems to me "Mayoral Candidate and Witness File Police Report Charging Lift Ogden Head With Breaking Campaign Laws" [clearly, headline writing is not my strength] would have merited at least a squib in the left side column... the same place the Godfrey death threat was reported. The police report exists and Hansen and the other witness will confirm. I'd have printed that.
Thanks again for the invite and number. Will take you up on that. And I've enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for that too.
Good Old (?) Curmudgeon:
I have read with disgust your latest spate of postings, and it's obvious, though you have a Ph.D. in history, you have no idea how a newspaper works, nor do you understand how a news story is written. If I were to receive a police report on Tuesday that Short-deck, on behalf of Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, broke several laws and was going to be charged with two misdemeanors, I would have called both parties (Neal and Short-deck), used the report and wrote a story, probably headlined, CAMPAIGN GETS UGLY. The Stand-Ex is a patent Godfrey cheerleader. I got this report on Tuesday a.m. I would have had the story in the paper Wed.; it's an easy story to write.
And regarding some of the speculative gossip regarding the mayor's race: I spent 2.5 hours on Saturday campaigning for someone (him/her) who isn't Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, and I met at least 15 people (and these are those who vote) who asked me how they can change OTown city government -- they were flat sick of Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey. It's amazing that Lying Little Matty really does think he can overcome his gondola fantasy. It's a perception shared by the Allens and the onion-reeking Geigers. Matty is done, and I don't care how many signs you put up.
Speaking of campaigns and lawn signs, as we seem to be....
Drove down to Lowes this morning [since there is no longer a hardware store in mid-city Ogden], and noticed that an awful lot of the Godfrey yard signs seem to have been erected on vacant lots. Not all of them, of course, but quite a few. All the Hansen and Van Hooser lawns signs I saw were on residential lawns. [I didn't see any signs for the other two candidates.] Odd that so many Godfrey signs seem to be on empty lots.... but I can understand why. You don't actually have to convince an Ogden homeowner to let you put a sign up on a vacant lot.
Jason:
You wrote: f I were to receive a police report on Tuesday that Short-deck, on behalf of Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, broke several laws and was going to be charged with two misdemeanors, I would have called both parties (Neal and Short-deck), used the report and wrote a story, probably headlined, CAMPAIGN GETS UGLY.
Where to start.... First, I don't know when the SE received the police report. For all I know it wasn't aware of it until it appeared on WCF. If you known differently, tell us how. I have no earthly idea how police reports are processed, how soon they become available to the public, how or by what means the SE or anyone else gets notified of them, and so on. I do know they charge $25 a copy for one.
Second: is Mr. Geiger going to be charged with two misdemeanors? How do you know? Police, after all, file many reports not all of which lead to charges or indictments. And if you've been reading my posts above, as you claim you have, you'll have noticed that I raised the question of whether the Mayor's pal, Chief Greiner, was going to pursue the matter or not, and wondering if the fix would be put in. And I started asking that as soon as the Rudi put the report up on WCF.
Finally, in my posts above, which you claim to have read, you should have noticed that I said the SE should have reported the sign incident. That it was in my view newsworthy and belonged in the paper. Guess you missed that.
Glad you were out campaigning for your non-Godfrey candidate, Jason. Just over two weeks to go to the first primary, and I think "early voting" begins tomorrow... or has it already begun?
The lead story in today's SE has a picture of downtown atop it with a huge sign reading "Ogden For Sale." [ Picture and story on the SE's free website.]
Did anyone else besides me wonder if the "Ogden For Sale" sign was a wry sideways comment on Godfrey administration cronyism regarding land sales? Just wondering....
Hmmmm, come to think of it, the map locating the properties and their owners don't seem to include the Bootjack properties.... Imagine that.
J-Dub,
You wanna kick my a$$? That's awesome. That's the O-Town spirit. Somewhere east of 32nd? We'll clear up this little misunderstanding.
Actually, I was paying you a compliment. I guess you didn't see the post where we ALL got called out as WHACKJOBS. So really I was just calling you EXTRAORDINAIRE. You think I'd diss your wife on a public blog? Come on, man...
P1: The last three boyfriends of any hot chick over 5'8" are whackjobs.
P2: J-Dub is a whackjob.
C: J-Dub's ex-girlfriend is a hot chick over 5'8". (fallacy)
Nope, see it doesn't follow. But however I offended you, please accept my apologies.
Jason....5 Hansen signs were stolen off of Country Hills Dr after being erected (with permission) by a friend of mine.
"Who would do that?", he wondered. I told him about Geiger and his act of vandalism in which he was cought by Neil. He can draw his own conclusion.
The SE, to the detriment of its readership, does use selective 'reasoning'. It should be a big story about the vandalism of a mayoral candidate's signs. It's a ciminal act in the first place.
It besmirch's the candidte the vandal is working for.
And, yes, it's an easy story to write. Jeske filed police reports too. Nothing was ever rported.
When I lived in NV, every thing on the police blotter was reported in the paper. The newsworthy stuff merited a story with a good headline.
Ever catch Leno reading the police blotter?
You can bet that dollar you want to throw into the pot on the mayoral race that the SE would print a BIG story if Godfrey's signs were stolen and defaced.
Of course, no one on VH's or Neil's cmpaign would stoop to such acts of vandalism....but that story of Godfrey being threatened by someone he didn't notice going anywhere (ahem)...I suppose it won't be long before Geiger or one of the sycophants 'steals' Matt's signs (check the garage) and the SE will do another story for the incumbent candidate.
They dropped the ball on Gadi Lesham today...but they'll pick it up for Matt any day. Just like a trained dog...."here boy...fetch!"
Baffled:
I've wanted to go on a ride-along. Am I eligible?
Keep talking about the SE.
I'm told by someone who knows that Porter and the SE staff read the blog religously.
Got to get religion someplace I suppose. So, if they see the light, amen brother.
I've searched the paper quite thoroughly, I can find no write up on lying little matty's flat water promotion in Huntsville. Did anyone attend? I would love to hear a report.
On a different note, while searching for the paddlefest, I stumbled onto something of interest in the Travel section. Top 50 adventure towns- one in every state. National Geographic Adventure Magazine recognizes St. George as Utahs Adventure Capital. I wasn't too suprized, but I would say Escalante, Duchene or Moab could have easily been named as well. Mexican Hat would provide some adventure as well.
I guess National Geographic would be above taking money from lying little matty and his fellow dishonest kool-aid drinking glee-club to skew their reputation. I guess National Geographic doesn't concider a rec center with a wind tunnel, bowling alley, miniture golf, bumper cars, arcade and some powerfull water pumps, to be adventure at all. I would agree.
Having been terribly busy of late, I've missed the blogging and the news. We have moved and (still residing in Ogden) are still working out the kinks in the closing process.
Anywho -- Kudo's to whoever caught the ball & posted the police report about BG's sign stealing antics. I thought messing with campaign signs was a game teenagers played (at least I was a teenager the last time I set one on fire, or turned one or two upside down or sideways - impartial, of course, as to whose name was on the sign). Shame on you, BOB!
And speaking of having specks, particles, chunks and boulders coming out of your water faucets -- how 'bout water spontaneously seeping up through the middle of the road; in fact, in several spots in the middle of the same road ON THE SAME DAY! They came & dug tiny holes, placed some tiny patches, then covered it all up with dirt & went away. What are they going to do when the whole street turns into a sink hole because all of the roadbed is washed away underneath from this happening countless times?
Happy Sunday All!!
I found it interesting that the story in the Standard about "Ogden for Sale" went into some detail about the bigger players that are buying up the area of Ogden centered on the River Project. There was quite a lot of ink dedicated to Lesham and his 28 or so purchases of lots and multi acre parcels. It tells about how he is chief exec of some flooring company, it talks about his maybe coming up with his own vision of that part of Ogden, it even talks about some chicken shit little law suit he has going with some local owners that he didn't complete a purchase with.
BUT what it didn't mention or even come close to eluding to was that this same Gadi Lesham, California savior of Ogden, is also UNDER INDICTMENT IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ACCUSED OF CHEATING THE THE STATE OUF OT ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS IN WITHHOLDING TAXES. THAT IS $11,000,000.00!!
Here he is investing millions in Ogden real estate in deals arranged by, facilitated through or with some form of participation by the official government of Ogden, be it the Mayor, the Council or the RDA board. This is in the same time frame as the alleged eleven million dollar heist in California, and THE STANDARD DOES NOT THINK THIS IS WORTH MENTIONING IN THE ARTICLE!!!!
Please someone, explan to me how this does not reflect some bias in some direction. I am waiting with baited breath Mr. Curmudgeon's Standard centric explanation of this phenomenon.
I must have misread your post, Native, and I was a little sauced, but I still don't get you and nothing I want to do is awesome. And of course I am a WHACKJOB. What the hell are you talking about? And yes, that is the OTown spirit, as opposed to the tough-guy spirit of the Denver suburb where Short-deck grew up. Uh-oh, the Squirrel Patrol is having a meeting next door and Short-deck is in the hizzouse. Watch your cigarettes with this guy, Jack.
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
Wow, Oz, you really are pissed. I noticed all of the CAPS.
I couldnt agree more.
J-Dub,
Look, I didn't diss you, and I didn't diss your wife. I thought you'd seen the post where we all got called out as WHACKJOBS, so I was trying to incite you to respond in kind because you usually take the bait. P1= premise number one. P2= premise number two. C= conclusion. The alternatives for the conclusion are logical or fallacious. I'm suggesting that you made a fallacious conclusion. What was your logical conclusion?
I don't know, Native. I think you're funny at times. Maybe less so when I had had 26 reebs. I can only logically conclude that THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE. God bless.
Ogden is not for sale. Mayor Godfrey takes it from the poor to give to the rich.
Oz:
As I recall, most of us know about that Lesham is under indictment in California because the SE reported the story here with, as I recall, a banner headline. Didn't it?
God, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon: Is it me, or are you the world's biggest pussy? (Cory Feldman reference.)
the city is not for sale it is the mayors office. just ask godfrey about how he would sell if if he could!!!
yeah...but only to the buyer with the 'smartest plan'...just like his rationale for giving the golf course to Peterson! That's what he told Hansen at one of his dog and pony shows.
Occurs to me no one has yet commented on the other lead story in the SE today. Link here.
Here are the headlines and by line:
VesCor probe ongoing
Investors worry about losing their life savings
BY TIM GURRISTER
Ya Mayor Godfrey will just have one his his good old boys blame that fraud on Hansen.
Just like what he did with the Veterans Home.
but wait....filiaga says it's already been built! he's a true godfreyite..so ought to be in the know and possess truth as espoused by his idol.
I owe Councilwoman Jeske and all of you an apology. In the previous thread I indicated that Councilwomen Wicks and Van Hooser had voted against the grant for the Windsor Hotel, but it was vacating Skyline Drive that they voted against. So Jesse was the ONLY ONE who voted against the Windsor Hotel and I stand corrected.
Curmudgeon, to answer your question, as I understand the Rules and Policies of the Council, a member can change their vote during a council meeting, although I've never seen it done.
In yesterday's article about Ogden being for sale and scrutinizing the map, did anyone else come to the conclusiion that I have? It stated that Gadi Leshem owned property on Washington and the Ogden River and even quotes Lesham about this property, but the map doesn't indicate that anyone owns the property where the old New Orleans Motel was, and is owned by Moyal. It is my BELIEF that the reason the Mayor and Administration are giving him such a hassle is because they want Moyal to sell THAT property back to the City so that they can sell it to Leshem because he plans to get it. The article says that "A dozen of Leshem's parcels are located downtown along Wall Ave, Washington Blvd. and Grant Ave., with several located within the boundaries of the ... Ogden River Project area." ... Leshem "said in a phone interview he's interested in a role in the River Project. 'I love Ogden,' Leshem said. He has hired experts to help him determine appropriate develoopment along the Ogden River. 'I see a vision (for the City) for the long term.'" (Does that sentence send red flags up?) Look at the map! It doesn't show Leshem owning any land on Washington nor on the Ogden River.
I just hope Mr. Moyal and his partner have the strength and tenacity to fight "City Hall" on this. If they need help, I think that we "concerned citizens" need to step forward and give them whatever help that they need. We can't let Godfrey, Harmer and Montgomery win this battle! I hope the Council feels the same! This could be an issue during this campaign season. Ask the candidates how they feel about Gadi Leshem taking over the River the River Project and downtown Ogden -- HE OWNS "AT LEAST 28 PARCELS IN OGDEN!"
Well Curmudgeon you really disapoint on your last apologeeeee for the Standard Examiner! Quite frankly you really let us down as the excuses you normally make for this lame newspaper are usually much more detailed and some actually have potential merit.
To be just as brief and pithy as you in this last response, I would like to point out that the Standard, as well as virtually every newpaper in the county, routinely rehash pertitent back ground information on every story that has a continuing thread. This practice incidently is one you have previously defended here on the blog. The purpose of course is to bring the reader up to speed on background info that they may not be aware of, or just in case they haven't read the prior articles.
Lesham's indictment is much more than a casual piece of information when it pertains to him buying up numerous properties in Ogden for millions of dollars at the same time he is accused of stealing many millions from the state of California.
I suggest that you take a fresh look at this. Oh, and please set your ego aside for a minute if you chose to revisit this subject and favor us with an actual intelligent explanation of why the Standard would avoid mentioning Lesham's alleged criminal activities that could have such a major part in his buying up Ogden.
You really do serve an extremely valuable cause here in Ogden when you dissect and explain local doings. But like I said, your last shot at covering the Standard's lame ass was, well pretty lame.
Oz:
Wasn't suggesting that the SE was right to have left that background info out of its recent piece. Merely noting that its record on the matter of printing material not favorable to the Godfrey administration or FOMs is a mixed one. They have done major stories that did not please the Administration, and the original Lesham legal troubles story was one of them. Worth recalling, I thought.
I'd have included a line about Lesham's legal troubles in the story where the story talked about his local legal problem, the lawsuit involving an RDA property he's trying to buy. That's where it belonged, seems to me, and would have fit in perfectly.
What I am trying to counter by posts like the one you're replying to here, is the notion, often touted here, that the SE is nothing more than a "pro-Godfrey rag," or sentiments like it. That's all. I did not argue above, nor have I ever argued, that the SE is a perfect paper, or an excellent one, or that there isn't significant room for improvement in its coverage and reporting. For example, the story we're talking about now managed not to include the Bootjack former RDA properties, bought by Mr. Peterson, an out-of-state investor I believe. And out-of-state investors buying into Ogden was the main topic of the story. I fund the omission curious. And said so above.
Look at the story they did, and the long and good editorial, linking to WCF archives, on the Dan S. GRAMA emails. An administration rag would not have done it. It was perfectly possible to have ignored the whole matter, certainly editorially. After all that's what the much praised here SL Trib did: not a word about the emails, the administration's attempt to keep the Council and public in the dark, etc. Not a word.
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