By The Lovely Jennifer
I think Mayor Godfrey is – and has been – playing his own version of Calvinball; and that for some time.
From the RDA article in yesterday's Standard Examiner:
The city’s Redevelopment Agency adopted a resolution Tuesday night that retroactively ratifies Mayor Matthew Godfrey’s transfer of 38 property purchase options within the second phase of the Ogden River Project to California businessman Gadi Leshem. ...In these tidbits of information, we find the Little Lord invoking at least 4 rules from the historical game of Calvinball, to wit:
City Council Chairman Jesse Garcia said the RDA board, which is made up of the city council, didn’t learn until October that the city had obtained and transferred 38 options in the project’s second phase to Leshem.
The resolution approved Tuesday night will keep the RDA in the loop regarding future option transfers, Garcia said. “The RDA board should be kept informed,” he said.
• 1.2 Any player may declare a new rule at any point in the game. The player may do this audibly or silently depending on what zone (Rule 1.5) the player is in.For a complete listing of the rules to the aforementioned game of Calvinball, please go to The Official Rules of Calvinball.
• 1.4 Any player legislation may be in the form of pain, embarrassment, or any other abasement the rulee deems fit to impose on his opponent.
• 1.5 The Calvinball Field should consist of areas, or zones, which are governed by a set of rules declared spontaneously and inconsistently by players. Zones may appear and disappear as often and wherever the player decides. Zones are often named for their effect.
• 1.9 Any rule above that is carried out during the course of the game may never be used again in the event that it causes the same result as in a previous game.
I would go on, but ... you get the point.
54 comments:
TLJ:
Perfect. Just perfect. TY.
TLJ:
The Calvinball rules do not specify whether the mandatory mask must shroud a particular proportion of the participant's forehead. In the case of Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's gargantuan Diving Rod, that dictum vis-a-vis the evil midget's miniscule cloth budget may be rendered moot.
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
Speaking of moot, this latest administrative deception may have given lying little matty extended brow gondola godfrey what will turn out to be a Pyrrhic victory.
He gets his instant gratification by securing, at great public expense, his and his questionable cronies objective, but in doing so has further alienated and pissed off the very folks that have the final determination regarding their future.
From here on, gadi's future rests in the hands of the RDA board, he can aquire all the property he desires, but can't do anything with it, without the approval of the board they've so disrespected.
Good article in the Trib spelling out the water rate increase. My current water bill in Ogden shows $7.92 for water and $15.35 for sewer. My concern with the sewer being a flat rate is that a home with 2-3 folks are paying for and subsidizing those homes with large familes 10-12. Retired and those on fixed incomes will see this $15.35 go to $21.08 in the 5 yera program. If the city can audit those homes with secondary water for rate increases, then homes with larger familes should pay a higher rate too. Other cities pro-rate sewer with water usage to allow users to pay for increased sewer traetment which seems fair and equitable.
Curm:
You are MOST welcome.
Jason W:
The rule does specify: "No one questions the masks."
TLJ
So Bill, what you are saying is that Godfrey and Lesham will have to kiss the asses in the near future that are connected to the toes he has stepped on in the past?
Good article, Jennifer.
Exactly right Santa, and I sense that other than Stephanson, his future courtship will be met with some very cold feet.
Along those lines, if you believe that no development should infringe on the cleaned up river,( both sides, 150- 200 ft. allowing for total public access and a parkway) let the Council,(RDA Board) know. They have the power and the right to insist on this, and it will be much more easily conveyed to a single developer, lying little matty's greatest desire, than multiple develpers with a lot less acreage that might not be as willing to yield to the desires of the populus.
Total river access and a parkway would be the best long term amenity that could come of all this. It would benefit many generations of Ogdenites and farr outlast any other thing gadi could put there. This would be a win-win, gadi has secured plenty of property to do whatever he wishes, just stay off the river. The parkway would also add benefit to any commercial endeavors planned for the future, thru out the whole area.
Although the process is obviously flawed, the end result in these Leshem transfers may be for the good.
I would lots rather depend on the indicted one from California than the un-indicted co-conspirators on the ninth floor. The crook we don't know -vs- the ones we do.
There is some chance that Gadi may be a man of good taste, character and intentions. We know for sure that none of these qualities exists in the Little Lord hisself - nor his lying henchmen.
The RDA board may have not had a viable alternative to approving this stinko deal cooked up by the little bastard. There are lots of property owners in that project that have been kept on the bubble for years now with options and threats of eminent domain actions against them. I understand that most of them just want the long ordeal over one way or the other and are willing to take the screwing they are being administered by Godfrey and just get the hell out of town.
These people are the most effected constituents of the RDA board on this matter, and I think the board's actions may very well have been directed at getting these victims some relief and resolution from this long night mare they have been subjected to by the little criminal.
Unfortunately the board didn't apparently address the underlying cancer, which is Godfrey himself. As long as he has them under control, and believe me he absolutely does, then they and the tax payers of Ogden are going to be subjected to an endless parade of scams and manipulations. Godfrey is a scam artist, liar and incredibly incompetent business person. He will continue to victimize the people of Ogden as long as the RDA board/City council stands by an lets him. I see nothing they did the other night that will slow the punk down in the slightest. In fact, their rolling over once again will only embolden him to screw over them, and us, even more in the future.
This new water and sewer rate business is a good example. The whole idea of the BDO was to provide money to fix Ogden's aging infrastructure. The place is succeeding and making money and rightfully ought to be taking care of these sewer and water problems. However, Godfrey and the last rubber stamp council passed a law that essentially stripped any money there is out of the BDO and subordinated it to the Rec Center and Mall (PeeWee's playhouse). Any bonds needed to fix the infrastructure could have, and should have, been backed by the BDO income stream. Now that has been stolen away to support Godfrey's fiasco at the mall, and the new bonds now have to be serviced by this outrageous new series of taxes and fees that were passed the other night. This new assault on our pocket books are a direct result of Godfrey's incompetence and disingenuous mode of operation. He is building a huge ego monument on all of our tax paying backs.
To add insult to injury he justifies it all with some bull shit study conducted by his favorite enablers named Lewis, etc, etc. These are the same people he had do his secret little gondola study that he then secretly tried to get the UTA to pay for. He can count on these people to give him any damn answer he wants to any stupid proposal he can think up.
Did someone mention recently that the Flowrider will be closing so they can do some maintenance to the room it's in? How long will it take to reopen?
The rec center - specifically the Flowrider, skydiving and rock wall - is mentioned in the new issue of Outside magazine in a list of things to do in the area during the Sundance Film Festival. Wouldn't it be great if one of the main "attractions" were closed during that time?
Oz:
I suspect you are right about the Council looking upon the latest RDA vote as the best course to take under the existing circumstances [i.e. a project to which the city was committed by a council three elections ago, property owners in limbo since then, etc.] That in general is something instant Council critics often don't much consider: that the council has to vote on what it thinks would be best for the city under the conditions it faces now and going forward from here, not on how they might vote if what came before the council six years ago came before the Council now. To some extent... not completely, but to some extent... I suspect some of the members feel themselves locked in to a certain course with no alternatives, or at least no attractive ones, at this point.
On the water rates, you're right clearly that BDO money that went into the Rec Center Mall Project should have gone, as intended, instead into water system maintenance. That would have lowered the coming rising rates. But it would not have eliminated them. Part of the responsibility here lies with many, many previous councils and previous Mayors [along with Godfrey] who've been pushing off periodic rebuilding and upgrading over the decades so as to not have to raise rates come election time. We are now facing a rate increase in no small part resulting from previous councils and this and previous mayor's avoiding doing their jobs.
As for the consultants hired, the Council hired them and paid them. Not the Mayor. And the Council [finally] took the lead on doing what had to be done vis a vis the water system [given a pending federal mandate that much of it be done, with big penalties for not doing it], and they did it in a way that provided for significant public input rather than the mayor's preferred way of doing it: lunch [probably on the house] involving him, G. Train Wilkerson, "I Still Want To Sell The Golf Course" President of the Ogden Weber Chamber of Commerce Dave Hardman and the Brothers Geiger, followed by the Mayor announcing by fiat the rate changes he and his cronies cooked up while chowing down.
Gotta tell ya, Oz, I like the way the Council did it better. Perfect, no. But a hell of a lot better government than the executive fiat alternative.
I've heard that Ogden was mentioned in Outside magazine because we paid them to do so. To do that and then not have the Flowrider working would be really dumb.
Correction, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon: The community activist Geigers are a daddy-junior combo. And, boy, do they love them some gondolas and Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey!
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
I doubt that Ogden has enough clout to get a reputable magazine like Outside to take payment in exchange for a mention in their editorial content. But if the city is promoting these attractions, it most certainly would be a black eye to not have them running during one of the state's most popular tourist events.
Apparently Ogden also has a writeup in the latest Ski magazine. Don't get that one, so I haven't seen it ...
OzBoy
I take strong exception to you calling our Mayor a "little criminal".
If you take into consideration the sheer number of victims and the huge dollar volume of his actions, I think you will find him to be the biggest criminal in Ogden's history, and possibly the whole states.
And Curmudgeon, I believe that the company the "council" hired to do the study is the same one that Godfrey hires to do all of his justifying. I doubt that the members of the council had any real input into hiring this firm. Don't know that for sure, but I would sure bet on it.
My guess is that Cook picked the company, not the council members. Like everything else that happens with this council, Cook leads them around by the nose. Cook is in league with Godfrey and has been from the beginning. Regardless of how they got hired, this firm is loyal to Godfrey and not the city or council.
In essence, Cook is the leash and whip that Godfrey uses to control the council. I do not recall even one time in the last 7 years that the council has acted with total independence from Godfrey. This even includes the time that Cook was allegedly mad at the Mayor. The Council members are no more than Godfrey's and Cook's lackeys and whipping boys (and girls). They use and abuse the council at will and Godfrey has them all quaking in their boots out of fear of his wrath.
I venture to guess that the Ogden city government is the most dysfunctional in Utah's history, and the citizens will be paying for it far into the future.
Jason:
Sorry. This is Utah. I thought all males here were often addressed as "brother."
Jason
Geigers Sr. and Jr. are proof that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. To avoid confusion in the future I think it best if people just remember them as dumb and dumber, Mayor Godfrey's twin jack asses.
I just read about Rudy Giuliani on MSN Website, it reminds me a lot of the type of Mayor we have in Ogden.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22345820/
An interesting article by the fabulous Cathy McKitrick in the Tribune today about the proposed move of justice courts to state control.
So called Justice Courts
The disingenuous arguments put forth against the proposal by the mouth piece for the League of Counties make the read worthwhile.
Ain't it just typical lying little matty supporters, this mornings paper includes a rebuttal of sorts to Tom Owens letter that called for the firing of lying little matty as RDA director. It's written by none other than the less than a week candidate for City Council seat, Kevin Irons. The one that dropped out to throw his support to royal eccles.( at short-deck and lying little matty's request)
As usual, the issue is not even addressed. No discussion of what transpired, only an attack, blindly overlooking the bad behavior of the administration and dishonest covert nature of the securing options for gadi leashem.
Well I hate to say it, a blind believing fool such as Irons would have been a dissaster on the council, somewhat like Brandon Stephanson, who was smart enough to not say a whole lot at the last council meeting. They must have incorporated biscuts into Brandons training this year.
I wonder if it ever occurs to the likes of Kevin Irons to compare his non-existent credentials to those of the very credible and accomplished Tom Owens, who sometimes posts here under a well-known pseudonym.
Godfrey's crew seems like a gaggle of butt kissers (Geigers and Wilkinson), parasitic contractors, leeches (Leshem), fired bureaucrats (Patterson) and other undesirables, whereas his detractors are all accomplished people.
But give the bums their due. They snookered the voters, at least until the whole amateur night comes crashing down.
Thanks to the city council, at least when that day comes we will still have water and sewer service.
I can't understand what the article about the communications manager was all about today. It seems like the mayor just doesn't know what is going on. I think he just doesn't like it when things don't need to go through him. At least the Council is trying to communicate.
I can hear the council and the administration laughing when we ask to be brought up to the same pay scale as Sandy and Salt Lake City. I sure hope their speeches sound good.
Joe, dont worry, the Little Chicken Shit Mayor is already planting the seeds to remove the Civil Service again. He wants to get even with the Firefighters for oposing him in the past election.
I would suggest that you hold on for another terrible four year ride through the chicken shit maze.
Serene:
Well, I think there's more to the story than that. [The story can be found here].
The Godfrey administration has been criticized by many, on and off the Council, for its failure to inform the Council of what it was doing in timely fashion. Mr. Reid's separation bonus, for example, and who was behind the Bootjack property sale, and most recently, of the fact the the Administration had agreed to act, secretly, as Mr. Lesham's purchasing agent for options on River Project properties. It seems Hizzonah is trying now to charge the Council with a similar failure to inform.
From Mr. Schwebke's story:
OGDEN — Mayor Matthew Godfrey contends the city council is pushing through the hiring of a communications manager who could earn as much as $70,798 a year without adequately disclosing details about the new position.
But City Council Executive Director Bill Cook defends the council’s action, saying Godfrey’s administrative staff knew the position was being created.
The city council voted by “common consent” and without any discussion during its Tuesday night meeting to add the communications manager post.
And: Creation of the position was not listed on the council’s regular meeting agenda distributed last Friday to the administration, the public and the media. Instead, it was included on a separate amended agenda distributed Tuesday. The agenda wasn’t amended until then because an ordinance allowing the council to establish the communications manager position hadn’t been completed, Cook said.
Godfrey, who did not attend Tuesday’s city council meeting, said he was unaware of the new position until informed by the Standard-Examiner.
Several things to note: Mr. Cook [of the Council's staff] insists the Mayor's staff was informed of the Council's plans. The Mayor has not, I think, attended a single council meeting since he began campaigning daily starting about three weeks before the election. When the Mayor is not there, he is usually represented at meetings by the CAO, Mr. Patterson. If Mr. Patterson or others of the Mayor's administrative aides were informed, any failure to inform the Mayor [if he can be believed that he didn't know until he read it in the Examiner] is the fault of his staff, not the Council.
Beyond that, I think the Mayor has a point in questioning why the Council seems to have created the position without adequate notice, without any opportunity for public input, and without including it on a regular meeting agenda in timely fashion so that agenda item could be made known to the public by the very communication director they want to hire.
Some of us, and some on the Council, have criticized the administration, properly, for its almost obsessive preference for acting in the dark and without due notice to the public or the council. Given that, on all matters, the Council should go out of its way to provide public notice of its intended actions. Creating the position as it did via the common consent agenda and with no public discussion or notice in advance, may well have been within its powers. But this Council, particularly since it must deal daily with the Godfrey administration, should never be content to do the minimum the regulations permit, but should take pains always to do the most wisdom requires with respect to public notice.
So: Godfrey's whining about "nobody told me!" is either nonsense, or the fault of his own staff coupled with his recent unwillingness to attend Council meetings. But his critique of the way the Council created the job [particularly with respect to public notice and opportunity for comment] seems on the money to me.
That said, I think Councilman Safsten is correct that Mr. Phares has done his job well, and that the Council should have a communications director paid a salary comparable to that paid by other municipalities of Ogden's size.
Just got scooped this evening.
Apparently Godfrey now wants to take over all the property on the north side of 23rd Street between Washington and Adams to put in a water feature. Something of an entertainment nature I was told. Knowing Godfrey that probably means a glorified slip and slide. The city is initiating the action but it isn’t clear whether he plans on the residents to fund this creation or whether he is doing it again for another developer buddy. He is after all the land owners on the north side of 23rd Street (including the YCC) to sell their buildings and property to the city so he can build this attraction. The YCC building was built with donations not to many years ago by the community with the help from the likes of Dee Livingood and many other prominent residents.
I draw three observations from this latest news;
First, it appears that any organizations within our city that works to help people in need are being pressured to move out of our community,
Second, once again this is being done in the dark and the city is using its intimidation of suggesting it has the power of eminent domain again,
And thirdly, why do we need an entertainment water feature for (I’m sure it’ll be called high adventure)? I want to know what and where the actual businesses are going to be in the downtown area or are we just going to be a city funded downtown Lagoon? If we are truly going to revive Ogden it’s not going to happen by building more amusement rides.
Republican’s tax and lie again. They'll lower taxes all right.. Then they just jack up fees.. Then they pump up their chest and strut around like peacocks, tell everyone they lowered taxes..
We'll fees are taxes.
Rob Paul to Pay Peter.
Take from the poor to give to the rich, that's what Republicans do best..
Ogden res, lying little matty and ilk are still talking hotel accessed by gondola on the nw corner of 23rd. and Washington. I'm sure that this latest tidbit is part of that.
Untill this gondola scam is totally put to rest, lying little matty's crooked clandistine behavior will continue. Who voted for this puke?
Bill:
Who voted for Godfrey? A majority of the voters. He is the duly elected mayor of Ogden for the next four years. Whatever [legitimate] powers he exercises over that time, remember, the voters put in his hands. We can raise questions about whether he will exercise those powers wisely, or prudently, or ethically. But we shouldn't forget that he won a close and hotly contested race, and it's the voters who gave him the victory. Happy with the outcome or not, it's how the system works.
curm,
so you are suggesting above that we respect trust honor and follow godfrey just because he won. in a toe to toe election godfrey won nothing. his money his hired guns his tactics and his dishonesty is what won the election.
breaking news above about 23rd st and you want to bust bills balls about his comment who voted for this puke. seems to me that your attention should be focused on godfrey not bills subjective outburst which by the way i think is appropriate given the news.
Disgusted:
You wrote: so you are suggesting above that we respect trust honor and follow godfrey just because he won.
I suggested nothing of the kind. What I am suggesting is that endless whining about his having won, and claims that he won illegitimately is pointless, and pretty much meaningless. He won the election. The voters made him Mayor. The powers he exercises as mayor were put in his hands by the people. I wish that had not been so. But it is. Endless whining about the people being dumb or about the Mayor's win being some how illegitimate because he spent more money than his opponent or hired professional campaign help is, seems to me, pointless. By that standard, no president, no member of the Congress or the Senate and no state governor is legitimately elected since they all employ campaign professionals and pay them. He won. I wish he hadn't but he did. Get over it. We know he's ethically challenged [to be as polite as possible about it], we know he prefers secrecy to open government, we know his administration is shot through with cronyism, and all of that means we, and the press, have to keep a close watch on how he uses the powers the people put in his and. None of which involves blindly trusting, honoring or following the Mayor's lead simply because he was elected.
You wrote: In a toe to toe election Godfrey won nothing.
Nonsense. He won election as Mayor for the next four years. You better believe it. You're not happy about that, and neither am I, but it is a fact. Our side lost. Long past time to stop moaning about the loss or how unfair some might think it was. Time to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, get off the whining bench and back into the game.
curm
just like you to go after the reaction rather than the action that created the reaction. why dont you question the actions of the administration acting behind closed doors again or question whether the city council is aware of this lastest development project. bills comments were in response to the latest news not really to the election results. why do you like to maginalize those that dont like how the administration operates or what dont like the administrations vision for the city rather than as you profess that you also dont like what the administration is doing. seems to me youd rather not conform the administration directly. do they intimidate you.
the administration and the majority of the city council are not doing a very good job for the residents who will have to pay for all of this mismanagement some day. stop giving them the benefit of doubt and start holding them accountable.
Curm, my question ,"who voted for this puke", was not intended to be a whine. It was a direct shot at anyone that did, regardless of how they came to their discision.
They are either, dumb, stupid, ignorant,greedy or crooked. Whine, no. Lament, too close to whining.
Bill:
OK. But the time for lamenting is over, too. As is the time, I think [which is never] for calling the people "dumb, stupid, ignorant, greedy, crooked" who you want to convince, starting right now, to support those on the Council who will question the Mayor's more egregious grabs at the public coffers to line the pockets of his cronies. Whine or lament, it does not good. And continuing to call stupid those who voted differently than you and I did not only does not good, it has the potential to do harm.
It was a hell of a fight. Close call. We lost. Time to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and get back in the game. Past time.
Disgusted:
You wrote: why dont you question the actions of the administration acting behind closed doors.
You must be new to the blog. I've been doing that, here, loudly, repeatedly for the last two years.
You, like, sadly, too many seem to think disagreeing with someone --- and mostly Bill and I who have worked on council and mayoral campaigns together very recently disagree about tactics--- constitutes marginalizing them. Not at all. It constitutes taking them seriously and engaging them on matters about which we disagree.
If you have been a regular reader of WCF, you've seen me criticize the Council when I think it deserves it, as well as the Administration. Same rules of conduct for public officials apply to both. All the time.
There is nothing to be gained by pussyfooting around the Geigerian Gondola morons who voted for Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon: At this point, they deserved to be ridiculed, castigated, stomped on and told they are brainless moron asshats who have no cognitive capacity, no moral compass, no dignity and no sense. There are over 7,000 of these fools, and your fair-and-balanced logic Fromage will never sway them away from their own idiocy. These onion-reeking moron losers have no stake in the community, no bearing on the shaping of future public policy; they are mindless creeps who will blindly follow a liar, an abuser of the public trust and our coffers. Screw them and the GONDOLA they rode in on. You cannot rationalize with feet-stomping children; mock them instead. Because four years is enough time for Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's house of cards to tumble and, when it does, it will be ample opportunity to again mock the foolish simpletons who voted him into office. The Jackass Center is closed, but we're still paying $175K a month; the town is without a viable mass transit option on the corridor because the lying jackass of a mayor thought a couple retarded ski goons and a leader of a famed Squirrel Patrol were going to cough up $40 million to build a circus ride; the housing market has taken a gigantic shit after fraud perpetrators and inflators like Provident and ex-truck drivers like GTrain Wilkerson -- Lying Little Matty cheerleaders -- sold out and bottomed the bench; and more.
"Who did you vote for, Gondola Boy Jackass?"
"Matthew Godfrey. Look at all he's done!"
"Yep. Look at it, Gondola Boy. Look at it. Now go eat an onion!"
curm,
i read this blog for a lot longer than you think. all i can say about you and what you think is criticizm is one word - milktoast.
You guys going back & forth about who voted for Godfrey & we need to settle in for the next four years, blah, blah, blah ...
Thing is, Hizzonah essentially called everyone who didn't vote for him his ENEMIES (open mouth, insert feet). He openly admitted he isn't changing anything about the way he conducts the city. He doesnt't have time to coddle the Susie-ites, blah, blah, blah.
TLJ:
If you think "settle in" means "do nothing," you've misread, badly, what I've posted.
Curm, you have a reputation to uphold. It may not be wise to acknowlege publicly details like the fact you cavort with the likes of folks like Jason and me.
Bill:
I consider such cavorting missionary work. [grin]
CURMY - puh-lease. I am bone dry sober, and I did not misread you. You wrote what you wrote perfectly clear, and I understood every word. To avoid re-quoting you and all the others, I used blah, blah, for the filler. Of course we cannot do nothing. If we're the enemy, then let us be worthy enemies - stand up, be heard, send emails, suggestions, show up to the council meetings (there is at least one empty chair, with MG stamped on the bottom), call our representatives, let the people we DID vote for (who won, that is) know how we feel, and give them our support.
and so on, and so on, and so on.
And last of all, Good ole Curmudgeon, my democrat friend: Merry Christmas to ya. Mwah
The ever Lovely Jennifer
p.s. I don't make mistakes, especially when I'm reading something. Some very good English & philosophy professors taught me something useful at university.
business deals or visions that are built on a poor foundations will not stand the test of time. with the current administrations visions these projects probably wont take much time before the cracks start to appear. the administration is going to try to hide these cracks. we need to stay involved informed and watch for the cracks to appear or watch for actions that would indicate that they are trying to conceal the cracks.
its like telling a lie once you do you have to remember the lie and make up new lies to cover the original lie. same with a bad deal project or vision. stay tuned.
TLJ:
I wrote you this: If you think "settle in" means "do nothing," you've misread, badly, what I've posted.
Note the word "if." It was a conditional. If you did not intend "settle in" to mean "do nothing," then, the post says, we were not in disagreement, as evidently we are not. We were only in disagreement if you did take "settle in" to mean "do nothing."
All of your plan of action --- stand up, be heard, send emails, suggestions, show up to the council meetings (there is at least one empty chair, with MG stamped on the bottom), call our representatives, let the people we DID vote for (who won, that is) know how we feel, and give them our support --- makes sense to me. Wouldn't disagree with any of it.
I'd add only that I wouldn't write off the member elected with Godfrey's support just yet, nor would I overlook members of the Council, like Mr. Stephens, who've played a moderating, middle of the road role in many instances. With the exception of Mr. Stephenson, who seems to be wholly a shameless and unthinking Godfrey sycophant, all of the rest of the Members seem to me to be trying to do their jobs as well as they can. It would be wise to presume [unless he demonstrates otherwise] the same of Mr. Johnson.
And as you doubtless know well, as does anyone who's ever done any successful lobbying, that approaching Council members [as some here advocate] this way: "now look here to you miserable toadying shit for brains onion-eating Godfrey ass-kisser...." is not likely to succeed. The new Council is the one we will have [baring resignation, removal or death] for the next two years, and the course of wisdom, when a majority disagrees with us, is to inform the members, to provide better information than those on the other side are offering, is to lobby them effectively. Which seems to be exactly what you are advocating.
Good Old (?) Curmudgeon:
I never used the following,
"miserable toadying shit for brains onion-eating Godfrey ass-kisser"
but I will from now on. Brilliant!
Merry Christmas, good sir, and remember:
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
Jason:
Always happy to be of help!
Curm - I have been witness to effective lobbying first hand, providing those powers that be with information (bread crumb trails included) and sheer numbers to let them know what their constituents want. All done calmly, professionally and surprisingly eloquently. It all happened when the Bikers (e.g. Motorcycle enthusiasts, all dressed in black leather, long facial hair and pony tails) in the state of Utah lobbied for elimination of the mandatory helmet law. It reared its ugly head a few times, and every time got tabled - because they realized these were the people, armed with facts and registered to vote, whom they serve. We haven't had it back for some time now.
Not that MG will react the same way, but we all know he is the lost cause. It is the others, as you mentioned. No mud slinging, just the facts, man. Get someone honest to do the stats as well. Numbers don't have to lie. If used as intended, they rarely do, truth be told.
TLJ
Jeez Curm, can we assume you'll be adopting a more aggressive posture and nature in the coming year? " miserable toadying shit for brains onion eating godfrey ass kisser." Awesome, I knew you had it in ya, salute.
Bill:
That was, Bill, as you well know, +an example of how not to lobby office holders effectively. Read TLJ above to see how it's done well so that it actually has a chance to move legislative votes on issues. Won't win 'em all, but with effective lobbying, you can move votes on some issues, and some important ones. Go in with the "more aggressive posture" you recommend, and your chances of turning the deciding vote on a split Council are none, and less than none.
You want to win close votes on a divided Council, you can't sing only to the choir. You have to convince movable members to look again, to consider what you want them to consider, and to... maybe... rethink their position on the matter in question. Again, see TLJ for how it's done. Without a chance to materially affect the Council's make-up for another two years, lobbying is our best chance to swing close votes in favor of evidence and fact-based decision making and away from the pie-in-the-sky packaging-is-progress fantasies of the Hardman-Chamber types. In fact, it's pretty much our only chance, especially with the SE planted firmly on the "don't make waves" sidelines.
For example, I think a key target for fact-based-Ogdenites ought to be members of the business community, particular Chamber members, who are not on the inside of the Godfrey administration, who will not be helped by our metastasizing city debt, who won't be helped by rising property insurance rates as our OFD deteriorates from neglect, who aren't going to be particular pleased at rising water rates [which automatically increase the cost-of-doing-business in Ogden], who perhaps can be convinced that the city needs to make business decisions the same way successful businessmen do: on the basis of fact, evidence and good information, not pie-in-the-sky unexamined glittering generalities that predict Paris Hilton and her entourage will be strolling the Ogden City Mall redevelopment shopping for Versace and Prada if only we offer her a flatland gondola ride over the scenic streets and allies of Ogden City so she can then take another gondola ride to a vest pocket resort that doesn't exist yet and may never because its developer can't seem to find investors willing to put their money into the plan.
If we can begin to swing the hard-nosed, hard-headed, not-on-the-Godfrey-gravy-train business community out of the Mayor's column... and I think it might be done... he will have a much harder time peddling his chimeras [at public expense] to the Council and the city.
Lobbying --- effective lobbying --- ain't easy. And it takes time. And often it involves two steps forward, then one step back. But over time it works. Or can work. Provided the facts really are on our side. And when dealing with Godfrey, mostly, they are.
Curm, I would like to point out one tiny little fact that you should be well aware off by now, there are no fence sitters as far as elected officials go. The closest thing you'll find is Doug Stevens, and he can be impossible to read sometimes.
Blane Johnson is not going to be swayed whatso ever, he's one of lying little matty's largest benefactors. The largest portion of money spent to unseat Amy Wicks came from his business address. $9700.00 to royal eccles, That contribution alone was more than twice the amount Amy spent.
You'll find no cooperative effort or olive branch coming from him.
Bill:
IN re: Mr. Johnson. He absolutely ran as a Godfreyista. But with newly elected officials, my rule is simple: they get the benefit of the doubt until they have demonstrated that they don't deserve it. Mr. Johnson has to date cast no votes on the Council. Hasn't been seated yet. It would be unwise to presume before he's cast a single vote on a single issue, to assume he's another Stephenson-style drooling Godfrey sycophant.
Let's remember that we've not got an unmixed record in predicting how Council candidates will vote or what they will do once they've reached the Council. [All together now, let's say "Glasmann."] And having to deal, as a Councilman, with Godfrey's contempt for the Council can be and for some has been a learning experience, as they say. It was that way for Ms. Van Hooser. Perhaps it will be that way for Mr. Johnson as well.
We lose nothing by presuming he will try to do what's best in his view as he takes office and that he's willing to look at facts and evidence. If he isn't operating that way, it will become clear very quickly. But every newly elected Council member starts with a clean slate, I figure, and gets the benefit of the doubt, as I said, until he or she proves they don't deserve it. We'll know soon enough.
curm,
wake up. bill is absolutely right about this guy johnson. he was involved in the whole american building deal. if that doesn't tell you sometime about what this guy is all about then you better hold on to what remains of what ever johnson you have because you may just loose that too with the twins that youve already lost.
disgusted:
If I had a dollar for every elected or appointed figure in American history who astounded voters by they way they acted once in office [for good or ill], I'd be posting this from Maui. Once again, Mr. Johnson has been elected. We gain nothing by presuming before he has cast a single vote, that he will be unaffected by fact, evidence or the Mayor's behavior toward the Council. If he turns out to be a mouth-breathing Godfrey sycophant as Bill and you expect, and as I think distinctly possible, we've lost nothing. But if not, we won't have alienated him right out of the gate.
The choices are: assume the worst and gain nothing. Or give him the benefit of the doubt unless/until he proves he's not worthy of it, and preserve the possibility of influencing some of his votes. I see no advantage to doing the former, and a possible advantage to doing the latter. If the former assumption is true, we've lost nothing. But if the latter is true, we have the chance to gain something. That's all.
curm,
youre a putz and will never get it. youll just keep getting stepped on.
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