Ticket quota advocates fight like badgers to preserve their ticket quota/justice court revenue stream
Traffic citation quotas are back in the Standard-Examiner news today, with this guest commentary by state representation Neil Hansen. Hansen's article sets forth the history of the "Citation Quota Prohibition Bill”, which passed in the house last year, but failed in senate committee by a tied 2-2 vote. As Hansen clearly explains, this legislation actually relates back to an even earlier 2000 bill which had been sponsored by Representative Dave Ure, Republican from Summit County. Rep. Hansen's proposed legislation, intended to address a problem which is pervasive in the state of Utah, goes back a long way indeed. Additionally, Rep. Hansen provides evidence, in careful detail, that a traffic citation quota system, with clear numeric criteria for specified time frames does exist in Emerald City.
Although Rep. Hansen's commentary was originally intended as a rebuttal to Greg Whinham's November 30 guest commentary, the Std-Ex has this morning framed its editorial page again in classic Std-Ex "he said - she said" fashion, with the insertion this morning of a second pro-quota article, this one from Ogden City's assistant police chief, Wayne Tarwater. Thus, Representative Hansen has TWO opposition editorials to rebut this morning.
Due to a problem with the Standard-Examiner's digital edition website this morning, we are unable to retrieve or link the full text of Chief Tarwater's piece, so we'll present it in summary form below, addressing the author's "points" one by one.
1) Chief Tarwater contends the Rep. Hansen's bill, which would simply prohibit performance criteria measuring set numbers of traffic tickets over fixed periods of time would prevent police department management from requiring the issuance of traffic tickets entirely. Chief Tarwater's argument is preposterous on it face, and he offers no convincing evidence that his officers, "Ogden's Finest," would behave unprofessionally -- and cease writing traffic tickets -- in the event that Rep. Hansen's bill is passed by the legislature.
2) Chief Tarwater then goes on to assert that there exists no evidence that ticket quota systems exist in Ogden or anywhere else. Of course regular WCF readers have already seen documentary proof to refute this patently false assertion. (It's right there at the bottom of page three -- right there in black and white.)
3) Chief Tarwater then suggests that Ogden City's current performance evaluation system is somehow permissible, because it was the subject of negotiations during the Ogden Police Benefit Association's 2005 salary negotiations. We believe this is flat untrue. We carefully followed those negotiations here on this board; and while these negotiations did indeed involve bringing public safety employees' pay into parity with other city employees, these negotiations did NOT, according to our understanding, involve negotiating specific criteria for individual officers' performance evaluation (PEP) scoring.
4) Chief Tarwater then argues that the current performance evaluation (ticket quota) system is not the "cash cow" that some critics have claimed it to be, and then launches into a tangential analysis of the ticket revenue "split" which occurs when traffic matters are adjudicated in Utah state courts. What Mr. Tarwater fails to mention however is the existence of Utah's municipal justice court system, such as now exists in Ogden, wherein ALL ticket revenue goes to the city, and NONE is divvied up with the state. Whether Mr. Tarwater is unaware of the existence of the justice court system -- or merely selective in his discussion of this issue we do not know. The net result, however, is that Chief Tarwater wholly fails to address the main issue, i.e., a municipal court system which operates in tandem with a numeric ticket quota system, often resulting in an unfair random tax on citizens who drive cars.
5) Chief Tarwater then resorts to a bizarre variation of the "no harm no foul" argument, noting that traffic offenders usually get shuffled off to traffic school anyway, as a practical matter, and thus there's is no real harm in the current system, aside from the fines and traffic school fees. The foregoing revenue items are of course the very problems which will be addressed by Rep. Hansen's bill. They are in fact a major part of the "cash cow" that citizens all across Utah have been loudly compaining about.
6) Finally, Chief Tarwater resorts to a final point: fixed numeric quotas are simply a necessary management tool. To that point we'll note that police department management already has a broad selection of tools to monitor employee performance, such as daily officer logs, GPI positioning devices and dash cams. Enough is enough, we say. Why should we lumpencitizens bear police department management problems on our backs?
Ticket quota advocates are fighting like badgers to preserve the ticket quota/justice court revenue stream. We wish Rep. Hansen the best of fortune with his bill in the upcoming legislative session.
There are also several other interesting stories in this morning's Std-Ex which we won't highlight at the moment. Our readers can expect a second main article today, as soon as the Std-Ex site is back up and running.
In the meantime the floor is open.
© 2005 - 2014 Weber County Forum™ -- All Rights Reserved
39 comments:
On Chief Tarwater's post, two things come immediately to mind.
(a)If there is no ticket quota system in Ogden, as he contends, then what possible objection could there be to Mr. Hansen's bill banning ticket quotas which, Tarwater insists, don't exist here anyway. If Tarwater is right that Ogden does not have a ticket quota system, then seems to me Hansen's bill should have no more impact in Ogden than a bill to ban the use of unicorns as police horses.
(b)Tarwater's long disquisition how Hansen's bill would impact Ogden, seems to me, renders his claim that Ogden doesn't have a ticket quota meaningless. But putting that aside for the moment, we know that many states have adopted laws banning ticket quotas. Does Tarwater offer any evidence from those states that the bans resulted in lax traffic enforcement and a rise in accidents, traffic injuries, etc.? No, apparently he doesn't. Which naturally raises the question, why not, since such evidence drawn from states that have banned quotas would make his argument much much stronger. Could the answer be that traffic enforcement has not fallen off in the quota ban states and departments? I don't know. But I should know. Tarwater should have told me, and you, in his op-ed piece. That he didn't is, I think, telling.
Don't Miss SL Trib Article on Lesham, Godfrey and River Project
The SE's focus today is on ticket quotas and Powder Mountain development. Important topics, but I'd like to urge people not to miss the SL Trib's article on how the Godfrey administration has been using city employees to purchase properties in the RDA River Project zone from reluctant sellers, for Mr. Lesham, and apparently using Lesham money to do it, and apparently not informing the RDA Board [aka City Council] that it was doing it. It's the article the Standard Examiner should have written but didn't. Here's the article's sub head: "But some residents say city intimidated them into selling their homes below market value."
The article can be found here.
I noticed that Lesham's alleged fraud in CA has dropped from $11 million in Nov '06 to $6 million now. His lawyer said the were expecting charges to be dismissed in early '07. It's well past that time, isn't it?
I still think that the State of California is going to end up owning Leshams properties in Ogden. I wonder how Californias plans will fit in with the Godfrey vision of cronyism?
Curm-
If you are interested in attending the River event-let me know and I will be sure to get you a ticket. The Ogden River is such a great asset to our community, lets get it in the great shape it deserves to be in. Come see what the plans are.
Weberfan:
Sorry, WF. I have commitments on campus that afternoon so I won't be able to go. I would have otherwise. Thanks for the offer.
I have been alerted to a book, "Downhill Slide" by Hal Clifford which is must reading before any revisions on rezoning Powder Mountain should be considered.
It details the problems developers have encountered in developing ski areas such as Powder Mountain to install so-called "amenities".
WoW!
First Tarwater emphatically states that there is no proof of any ticket quotas in Ogden or the whole state.
Then in his last paragraph he states: "the administration of the Ogden Police Department sets expectations of performance...."
Brings to mind the old saying: "a rose by any other name....."
What is sad is that our police department is in the hands of people like this who routinely insult the intelligence of the citizens with such duplicitous bull shit.
The entire Godfrey administration is riddled with incompetence and dishonesty as this and the Tribune article demonstrate.
Thanks for the tip, cletus. We've added "Downhill Slide" to our Amazon.com book links in the left sidebar.
Once again, Kristen Moulton has put the Standard-Examiner to shame.
dan s.:
You wrote: Once again, Kristen Moulton has put the Standard-Examiner to shame.
Yup. As has the paper she writes for. The SE news editors should be beet red with embarrassment. Skunked on a story happening in their own back yard by an out of town paper that only covers Ogden intermittently.
Dan and Curm
That's the difference between a real newspaper and a bush league advertising circular.
The Tribune is still news driven with real news people working there, and the Standard is all about how much money their bean counters can send back to Ohio.
The basic equation looks something like Schwepke -vs- Moulton, a real reporter -vs- a low paid hack. The Tribune also enjoys competent editors as well, something the Standard doesn't seem to get.
There’s been a lot of negativity about various issues concerning the Ogden River Parkway. Some of it has been misguided and highly opinionated, and some of it has been warranted due to past performances of the current administration.
I urge everyone to take a chill pill and, as Curmudgeon so aptly stated, be cautiously optimistic. The Ogden Riverfront Development Company press release lays out some achievable goals, and if pursued properly, the future could be brighter for the Ogden River and, consequently, Ogden itself.
Let’s see what facts the environmental studies produce, and observe the clean up of the development site. Then we can see if ORDC projects a "sensitivity" to the "city's ecology" and "sensible growth." Mr. Lesham and the ORDC have committed, in writing, to doing so. The least we can do is give them a chance.
Cleaning up the river is a good thing, as it’s one of our local treasures. If the goal of Mr. Lesham is to protect the river for future generations, such as his grandchildren’s, that’s a worthy goal. A healthy river will have healthy social and economic consequences.
Sustaining the health of the river should be the chief concern, and I think that’s what Mr. Kennedy stands for. Hopefully, that concern coincides with what Mr. Lesham and company are trying to achieve. Let’s give them a chance. If they don’t live up to their promises, we’ll be obliged to run them out of Junction City on a rail. It’s our river, let’s protect it.
Birdlips:
You wrote: If they don’t live up to their promises, we’ll be obliged to run them out of Junction City on a rail.
A traditional popular remedy for public poltroonery. I've never seen it done. And hope I won't have occasion to anytime soon. Looking forward to learning what the plans are, or at least, at this point, the range of options being considered.
"Poltroonery"?
Wow Curmudgeon, you had to dig pretty deep for that one! Definitely a first use of the word on this blog, and maybe the whole town! However, I'm not too sure that the word applies to this particular pool of troons. They are not so much cowardly as they are arrogant and corrupt.
As far as riding bastards out of town on a rail, hell man it's a real blast, I highly recommend it to you if you get a chance to participate. It's almost as much fun as a good old fashioned tarring and feathering.
Ozboy:
Hmmmmm. You're right. Varlet would have been a better choice than poltroon. [Def: a rascal, a knave. Synonyms: knave, rapscallion, rascal, rogue, scalawag, scoundrel, villain.] Yup. Much better choice than poltroon. Thanks.
Chief Tarwater should get off his fat ass and look for all the unsolved murders in Ogden. “LESS GOVERNMENT” means more tickets and more murders on the street!
Where is the S E to tell about all of Chief Republican Senator record of all the unsolved murders in Ogden?
I guess their the Phantom News Paper
"As far as riding bastards out of town on a rail"
Ozboy, what's with the bastards addition to my comment? Was that necessary? Did my poor attempt at humor ruffle your feathers? Do you think that calling a group of people bastards, from the safety of a computer while using a hidden identity, might be considered a poltroonery response?
Curmudgeon, I've only seen it done in the movie "Oh Brother Where Art Thou"?
Birdlips:
Actually, the full treatment... tarring, feathering and riding on a rail... was pretty grim. Students usually titter when I talk about the Patriotic Defenders of Liberty [aka anti-British colonial mobs] during the Stamp Act crisis tarring and feathering those who refused to turn their backs on their King and Country. So I read them some eyewitness accounts.
The victim would be stripped naked [often in the dead of winter], being beaten with clubs the while, then have hot [often boiling] tar or pitch poured over him [third degree burns not uncommon], then duck or goose feathers dumped on him, then he'd be hoisted, still naked, beaten and burned, up onto the rail from a split rail fence. These tended to be triangular in shape. They put the rail between his legs and hoisted it up to their shoulders, then bounced the rail as they carried him off. The poor SOB trying desperately, if he could, to hold his genitals up off the cutting edge of the rail as they bounced it along. People died from tarring and feathering sometimes, or were crippled for life. A man who rescued one of the victims from a mob said "the flesh comes off his back in steaks." The movies tend to clean up their depictions of tarring and feathering considerably.
Geez! A gruesome, stark description of inhumanity from Good Old (?) Curmudgeon! Perhaps he could employ the same anti-sophistry to describe how the onion-loving, moronic, eighth-graded, GONODOLA-loving Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey and his evil Geigerian sycophants have tarred-and-feathered the public and our interests! This would help educate us name-calling, middling, C-grade products of public schools!
Curmudgeon:
Your description created quite a mental picture and may be a tad harsh. That's wasn't the way it happened in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou." Therefore, I apologize for any confusion I caused with my poor attempt at humor and withdraw my suggestion.
Perhaps name-calling is more appropriate.
Curm, what are doing. Your not supposed to shed light on the dispositions and true character of our founding fathers. What would the still faithfull advocates of manifest destiny think about your revelation? How would they respond?
Curm, you may not be aware of this, but Utah is a stronghold for the tightly held belief that this country has been devinely selected and created for the further ambitions of the Heavenly Powers. To suggest that anyone so ordained could have such a vile and sinister nature could be concidered sacrilege. As proponents still claim, we do not now, nor never have believed in or advocated genoside or torture.
Birdlips:
Hey, no offense meant, and no criticism either. Just a paid professional historian's chance to counter Hollywood images of "tar and feathers" [almost always humerous]. Your post gave me a chance to do that, and I grabbed it. Didn't mean my post to be critical in any way of yours. And what I was describing were tar and featherings and rail-ridings in the colonies, circa 1763-69. We've progressed some since then [please god I hope...].
Bill C.
Embarrassing or not to moder sensibilities, the US of A was born in a revolution. [Though in the Cold War some groups passed "patriotic" resolutions declaring that the American Revolution was not really a revolution, and some states passed what they called "Pure History Laws" which made it a crime punishable by fine and imprisonment to question the motives of the Founding Fathers in any way. All in the name of liberty, of course.]
Funny thing about revolutions [and ours was also a civil war, really, Englishman vs Englishman, and sometimes brother vs brother, as in the later Civil War]: they're messy. People die. Some in combat. Some killed by soldiers foraging and looting [on both sides, though GW did his damndest to stop it on the Continental side since he grasped, as the British did not, that such actions pushed people into support for the other side]. There were irregular units [today we'd call the guerrilla units] operating on both sides, stringing up those not deemed sufficiently eager in the cause, and so on. It was violent and messy and the standards of warfare then were not what they are now, or even what we like to think they are now.
For example, take quarter. AT the time, there was no right to quarter if you surrendered. None. Zippo. Once you lay down your arms and surrendered, you could hope to receive quarter, but no army was required to give it. If the commander of the troops you surrendered to was of a mind, he could order all captives shot. That in no way violated the existing standards of war. [Though they tended not to do that to officers.] Or even if he did not order execution of prisoners, the troops doing the capturing could go ahead and bayonet the surrendered on the spot, and often did. Without penalty. [Many of the rear guard left holding the British off from the river crossing site as Washington desperately fought to save his army there fought against overwhelming odds, were captured and bayonetted on the spot by, especially, the Hessians who were outraged that irregulars... and they did not recognize the Continentals as "real" soldiers... had killed their comrades in the battle.]
It was messy, bloody, violent, on both sides and not the almost decorous noble-conduct-on-battlefields-only war that lived in American history textbooks until fairly recently. Folks who go all holier than thou when some rebel movement someplace commits an atrocity ought to go back and look at the early stages of our own revolution, where similar things took place. "Politics," as I think Mr. Dooley said, "ain't bean bag," and revolutions are not polite and decorous events fought by the Marquis of Queensbury's rules. Not even ours.
Birdlips
You wrote:
"what's with the bastards addition to my comment? Was that necessary? Did my poor attempt at humor ruffle your feathers? Do you think that calling a group of people bastards, from the safety of a computer while using a hidden identity, might be considered a poltroonery response?"
Well, for starters Birdlips I didn't have your comment in mind when I wrote it! Hate to burst your bubble pal, but stuff on this blog doesn't revolve around you and your writings.
As far as writing behind the safety of a computer with a hidden identity, well you got a point there and I must say you put it rather well - anonymously and behind the safety of a computer of course.
By the way, unlike you my identity is well known on this blog and there is no one amongst the "bastards" I was referring to that is not fully aware of who I am. If you don't know who I am just ask Bobby Geiger or any of the other Godfreyites.
Apparently it was my poor attempt at humor that ruffled your poltroon feathers.
Curmudgeon
First you gave us Poltroon and now Varlet! These in addition to the history lessons.
Are we here at the WCF getting an education or what! Hopefully you can spoon feed us a little lernin in Inglish and History on a daily basis? I for one could really use it, and I do appreciate all the hep I can get on book stuff.
Maybe Rudi can get the WCF accredited as a school and start collecting some of dem vouchers that we all know the Utah Legislature is going to get one way or the other.
Ozboy:
Naw, just an attempt by me to rescue wonderful old words indicating various kinds of skullduggery and moral failing that used to be quite common. I figure, with the Christian Right on the rise, the Republic will have need of such words again. Soon.
As for the history "lessons" --- well, sorry again. It's what I do. Sort of like the story of the old firehorse put out to pasture who began running again whenever he heard the fire bells. Programmed in now. Usually I can restrain myself. But, as you now know, not always.
Curmudgeon
Please don't "restrain" yourself! I for one luvs the lessons, and they certainly smarten up this blog!!
Another word of yesteryear that I particularly like, one that Brigham Young used in reference to all lawyers, is "Pettifogger". A word that fits a lot of the Godfreyites rather well.
ozboy,
Chill out dude. I didn't call you any names, I merely asked you a question. I'm not the guy calling people bastards. Those are fighting words in some places and I was curious as to why you did it.
If I was mistaken about the bastards addition and my initial comment, sorry about that.
My feathers aren't ruffled, I just don't understand why you have to insert name-calling into the discussion. It cheapens the dialogue and adds nothing. It actually turns a lot of people off that might otherwise read this blog and join in the conversation.
But hey man, it's your right to express yourself however you wish, and I'll defend your right to do so, even when you try to start a fight with me.
I don't know Godfrey or any of the Godfreyites and I have no desire to change that equation.
Peace and out
Oz:
Ah, yes. Pettifogger. Well worth saving. If only we could convince whoever decides these things that attorneys-at-law, instead of being entitled to an "Esq." behind their names, have to use "Pfg." instead.
Well now birdlips, ifn you did know about Godfrey and the Godfreyites you would probably be congratulating me for being so restrained as to only use "bastards" when I write about them.
Besides, my dogs are both bastards and I luvs em both a lot more than I do Godfrey.
And as to me trying to start a fight with you? That seems pretty strange considering you lobbed the first one at me with your insinuation of me being some chicken shit hiding behind a computer and fake name. The initial use of the "ruffled feathers" was also yours. I was just quoting you when I wrote it. Sorry about that. (feathers, birdlips, hmmm, do I see a pattern here?)
In any event welcome to the brawl here at WCF. You seem to be pretty bright and articulate, which if true is a welcome addition. One piece of advice - lighten up a bit, this is an entertainment medium as much as it is serious political discourse. If we didn't have a sense of humor here in the land of Oz it would get pretty depressing with the never ending outrageous and dishonorable actions of Godfrey and his circle of empty suits.
ozboy,
"you lobbed the first one at me with your insinuation of me being some chicken shit hiding behind a computer and fake name"
"One piece of advice - lighten up a bit"
“In any event welcome to the brawl here at WCF”
Thanks for the welcome. Perhaps you could follow your own advice and “lighten up a bit.” Your insinuations are in your own mind. Your response could have been similar to the generalized question I "lobbed" to you, but you took offence and chose to personalize it. In your words, “Hate to burst your bubble pal, but stuff on this blog doesn't revolve around you and your writings.”
I originally asked you a question and was hoping for a witty reply, because you seem like a witty person. Unfortunately, your wit sometimes get caught up in your anger and poisons the discussion. The intent of my original question to you was in regards to insults in general that are commonly found on blogs.
My intention is not to enter a brawl. It's to share information and entertainment. I try not to get my feathers ruffled, perhaps you could thicken your skin a little bit.
P.S. Dude, did you ever, like, live in The San Fernando Valley?
Birdlips
As a matter of fact I did live in the SF Valley at one time! A little corner called Supulveda just Northwest of the Van Nuys Airport.
Why did you ask?
Also sorry for letting you down on the witty reply thing.
Incidentally, I am about as "lightened up" as a person can be - on everything that is except the gangsters that have taken over Ogden city government, and their incompetent running up of massive debt with a string of loser publicly owned projects.
ozboy,
Whoa man, this is getting scary. I lived near Roscoe and Balboa. My first girlfriend's father (elementary school days) drove a Helm's Bakery truck. Check out this website.
No worries on the witty thing. You have a great track record.
Birdlips
Hmmm, I also lived just of the same corner of Balboa and Roscoe in some apartments between the corner supermarket shopping center and a school on the other side. It has been many years (1966) and I didn't live there very long - maybe a year. Worked at Litton in Woodland Hills at the time. After that I lived in Manhaten Beach for a few years and then the Hollywood hills at the top of Laurel Canyon for ten years or so. Also spent a lot of time over that decade at the Van Nuys Airport where I kept an airplane.
And the real capper - I actually bought one of those cute Helms Bakery trucks when the company sold them off. It was pretty cool looking but a real maintenance pain. Wish I had it now.
Still curious as to why you asked about the SF valley to begin with?
Do I sound like a Valley Girl?
Birdlips
Actually it was the corner of Balboa and Parthinia where I lived, not Roscoe. South East corner, between the supermarket and the elementary school. I think the street was named "Forbes", short street running parallel with Balboa. Been a long time and memory is a bit fuzzy.
oz,
I graduated from Reseda High School in 1966, but went to Ogden High in 1964. My family moved from the SFV to Ogden in 1961, then returned to the SFV (Tarzana) in 1964. I worked at The Gap in Woodland Hills when I went to Pierce, in ‘71 and ‘72, after some time with Uncle Sam. I tried to get into the Air National Guard because the 146th Tactical Fighter Wing, at Van Nuys Airport, was a childhood hangout. Alas, the list was too long and Bozos like GW Bush took “cuts.” Blue collar stiffs like me got drafted, or joined up. I’m genuinely in awe that you had a plane there. “It’s a small, small world.”
But I digress. I think the Litton buildings were real close to the Gap, right across from Topanga Plaza. I left the SFV in 1972 and moved to Mammoth to pound nails. I think the Litton buildings became a gigantic indoor market in the Eighties. Very successful.
You lived in some great areas and must have met some interesting characters at the top of Laurel Canyon. The canyons in So Cal were/are great places to live. I always liked that John Mayall album, (remember those?) “Laurel Canyon Blues”.
When I was a kid, those Helms Bakery trucks would blow their whistle, and I would start running for the street (Lanark.) The driver would stop and open those rear doors. Magic time! He would slide out the really long drawers, there was a stack of them, that were filled with the best pastries I ever tasted. Did your truck still have the drawers? Helms must have had some great carpenters, because those drawers were heavy. However, they glided smoothly with kind of a whoosh sound. I can still hear that sound....it was the sound of anticipation. I wish you still had that truck too. I’d help you restore those drawers in a heartbeat, just to hear that sound again.
No sir, you do not sound like a Valley Girl. All that Valley Girl jive happened after I left the area. I don’t recall anybody talking like that when I used to cruise Van Nuys Boulevard. You mentioned the SFV of the Forties and Sixties in an earlier post.....and I thought hmmmm.
My family moved to the SFV, from Inglewood, in the Fifties. There was an onion farm at the end of our street. That farm quickly disappeared, and houses started growing instead of onions. I used to haul my trusty red wagon through the developing subdivision collecting pop bottles from the construction workers. I bought Topps baseball cards and candy from the proceeds. I remember plenty of orange groves in the SFV. They were everywhere.
Birdlips
Too much!
No the Helms truck didn't have the drawers in it. When the company went bust (I think) in the mid 70's they sold off the whole fleet maybe a couple a hundred. They were all stripped down except the drivers seat. Some bought them for work vehicles and others to do custom interiors, which was what I intended to do but changed my mind when I realized that to make a real nice ride out of it I would have to do a complete mechanical rebuild as well. They were also pretty underpowered for a modern cruiser and there really wasn't enough room to put a bigger engine in.
I was in the airplane game at Van Nuys for about eight years. Operated out of a shop on the west side of the field about the middle of the big runway, behind the tower.
And John Mayall! I lived across the street from him on Grandview at the top of Laurel Canyon. Got lots of John Mayal stories! Very rarely run into anyone that knows who he is though. Send me an email to Rudi and I will ask him to forward it to me - if you want to talk about LA that is.
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