Watch for more Ski companies to come
By Bob Geiger
Do you remember a little while back when all the discussions were going on about what to do downtown…a guy on your blog went on and on about how we should be pursuing the Medical and Technology industries rather than the Ski and Recreation industry?
Do you remember me responding that the Medical and Technology industries will not pioneer the rebirth of Ogden that the pioneering would have to be done by smaller industries that create an appealing environment for the bigger Medical and Technology industries to follow?
Do you remember me telling your readers to watch closely….they might see a move by the medical community in downtown Ogden if the Rec Center, Hub Concept, and Gondola continue to move forward?
The Hospital that is on the front cover of today’s paper is the project that I was referencing…and it happened in response to the approval of the Rec Center and to mounting evidence that the other components (Chris Peterson, Scott USA, Larry Miller, Others) would become reality. The evidence presented itself, and not more than a couple of weeks later, there is serious discussion of a Hospital downtown…IN WALKS THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY…
More is happening and coming every day. I wish I were at liberty to tell everyone. The companies in question want to be discrete, but they came this week because the Rec Center provided sufficient proof that the Gondola and other components are going to be a reality.
I read how your readers think, and I don’t believe that they are giving sufficient credit to the efforts of our elected officials and our business community. I wonder at what point they will assess the mounting evidence and say: “Good Job”. It may come after it is all said and done, but what does that say for your readers. They certainly aren’t the people to listen to when you’re trying to move forward.
For almost a year, your readers tried to sell the Mayor as a Crazy, Stupid, Dishonest Man because he thought that a bowling alley and a Gold’s Gym would revitalize Ogden. They refused to acknowledge that the plans were bigger and broader than a bowling alley and a Gold’s Gym. They kept calling for “written proof” from Larry Miller, and the like. Well, written proof is no longer necessary, and even in the face of all that is happening, they have refused to soften their rhetoric and at least acknowledge that the plan seems to be delivering some valid momentum and have a scale and scope that would make sense to a lot of sane people, including 5 of the 7 city councilmen.
I just wanted to take this opportunity to hi-lite that what the business leaders and elected leaders are saying isn’t just rhetoric. It is information that materializes with tangible results that occur over time-lines that preclude some observers from connecting the dots and recalling the facts and statements that they are given.
Watch for more Ski companies to come. Hollywood has been visiting with WSU….Why? because of all of these projects….watch for results there….they’ve been working with Chris Peterson.
It’s not the critic who counts. It’s the man who is actually in the arena. We need positive thinkers who get things done.
Sincerely,
Bob Geiger
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Bob Geiger is a corporate executive with Ogden-based Descente, N.A, an Ogden community pro-development activist, and semi-regular contributor to Weber County Forum.
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40 comments:
Amen and Amen again brother!(Speaking to Bob Geiger). Ogden continues to get better for EVERYONE, not just a select few. More jobs are being created. You hit it right on the nose Bob. My congratulations.
Bob:
Good piece, you certainly do not lack for enthusiasm.
I think it is quite pollyannish, but I do hope that you are right in all of your grand dreams and the results that you are so sure of. I'm not betting on it, but I am hoping for you and Ogden that it all comes true. Then the whole town can share in your Rainbow Stew and free Bubble Up.
I fail to see the connection between a long term care facility and the gondola or ski hub ideas. I think it is most likely a coincidence - unless they are counting on thousands of broken legs from those millions of skiers that are going to descend on our new Ski resort town. It is similiar to the claims that the floor covering company came here because of this stuff.
If the AirForce moved a new wing to Hill I would guess that the eternal optomists would claim these ski oriented ideas was the reason also. (maybe not a good example considering the AirForce recently snubbed Ogden and the hub idea in favor of Park City)
Incidently, I read the article and it seems that the hospital is only thinking of that particular location. I didn't see any thing saying it was a definate, same with Milller and Boyer so far. I do hope that it all happens as you dream, but talk is cheap - that's why there is so much of it.
Yea, I know it all has to start with a dream, but this is the real world and there are millions of dreams for every one that comes true. So keep dreamin, will you? Ogden could use something good to happen.
Next month a new day will dawn in Ogden with the seating of the freshly elected common sense council that so many of us worked so hard to achieve. I know that the mayor and your circle do not want to accept this reality, and have made some very childish rationalizations about what it means, or doesn't mean. I think it means the brakes are about to be slammed on with this runaway madness. Hope the good mayor has his seat belt on and tight.
It is the hope of the majority of clear thinking citizens that this new council systematiclly unwinds all of these many and varied deals and gets the city clear the hell out of all business except those that it is supposed to be in, like cops, firemen, inspectors, roads, sewer and water etc.
I believe the voters of Ogden are just simply fed up with all of this nonsense of the city being in all of these failing businesses while the infastructure rots under the streets. The mayor has not been able to point to one single big success that he is responsible for in his six years in office. The city has a staggering debt as a consequence of his many costly failures. In spite of his repeated claims of success, the voters have seem through it all. Like Clara in the old hamburger commercials they have said: "where's the beef?" Sad to say, there does not seem to be any! Just more big talk about more big projects.
How many turkeys does Godfrey have to cook up before you come to realize he is incompetent and the city has no business taking on all of these costly ventures. How deep does the losses have to get before you and your compadres realize that the city's business is public safety and infastructure not high finance and ski resort building?
I would suggest that you not declare victory just yet. You might want to wait till the pie is out of the oven before you serve it up. At this point you only have a few of the ingredience in the mixing bowl.
I'm not sure if the gondola had anything to do with Ernest deciding to locate here or not, but my sources say they doubt it did. The deal is pretty far along to have suddenly just sprung up because Larry Miller finally spoke and some dignitaries shoveled up a scoop or two of dirt.
And the gondola, which is still only a dream by some, won't run anywhere near the health provider's store. Which begs the question: how does a gondola serve the public, other than hauling a few guys up the mountain?
Ah, Bob. Good to see you entering the lists again.
In the logic biz, there is a basic falicy known as "sic hoc ergo propter hoc" [meaning, roughly, "after this, therefor because of this"]. You have just offered us a prime example of the falicy at work. The notion that a medical facility suddenly decided to look at an Ogden location seriously the day after ground breaks on a high-adventure bowling ally because ground broke on a high-adventure bowling alley... well, Bob, even for you, that's a stretch.
Since you are so eager to join in public discussion again, perhaps you could take some time now to let us in on the details of the gondola/gondola scheme that you told the Standard Examiner you and Lift Ogden were hiding from the public out of fear of creating even more public opposition to the plan? Or are those detail like the full bisiness plan for the Malan's Basin development that three months ago Mr. Preterson promised we'd all see in two months? Forever promised and never appearing?
Can't help wondering what those secrets you are so afraid we'll find out might be. Can't be that the plan is to sell advertising on the sides of the gondola cars from downtown to WSU turning the gondola into an all-day moving billboard clattering above Ogden Streets. That cat's already out of the bag.
Come on, Bob. Be a sport. Let us in on what your Lift Ogden cronies are afraid we'll find out. You can trust us. We won't tell.
This has got to be one of the grandest, gaudiest comedies in Weber County since Elder Godfrey summoned the press to the equestrian stables of Lorin Farr Park. A swashbuckling ski entrepreneur ex-Marine, certifiably macho, performs for our edification a dance of the seven veils with the skill and grace of a Geisha. "Do you remember me telling your readers to watch closely ... I wish I were at liberty to tell everyone ... Watch for more Ski companies to come ..." What is this, a fugging striptease? Sheesh!
It all boils down to this: What will the people of Ogden buy? Not some blonded New York ski diva trapped inside a gondola car with a homeless person, but Ogdenites. When the smoke clears, if local folks aren't fighting to get into the bowling alley and multiplex, this dog won't hunt.
HOLLYWOOD at WSU? Please tell me what he's smoking; I want some!
Aw come on now Bob, don't be taking your ball and going home on us. The fun is just starting.
All this stuff you dream about is great, but it avoids the real issue. THE CITY OF OGDEN AINT GOT NO BUSINESS BEING IN ANY OF THESE BUSINESSES!
Especially when the town is falling apart.
As to Larsen's esoteric little lame brain poems, well I guess the voters didn't buy that silly BS any more than I do. I guess he must of got his blackberry fixed? I hope that he was also able to salvage his lectric Choo Choo plans which surely will be the salvation of Ogden.
The mayor's bankrupt ideas have nearly bankrupted the city, and the voters have spoken - NO MAS!!!
And just because you say something in a dillusional and VERY inexperienced state, don't mean the folks should accept it as "facts and evidence". I do not doubt that you have seen what you claim, and have been in the Mayor's inner planning circle, but I do doubt your ability to see the big picture and understand the context of how it could play out in the real world. But, as I said before, it would be grand if all this stuff could work out like you dream it could.
The new council, if they do dismantle all this junk business, will only be clearing the debris so that private enterprise can re-enter Ogden and bring it back to some semblance of it's former glory.
Can't happen soon enough to suit me.
Cumudgeon quiety notes that Mr. Bob Geiger has posted three more times without revealing any of the secrects he admitted to the SE that Lift Ogden is afraid will get out about their plans and thus increase public opposition. What are they so afraid of....?
So many questions. So few answers.
I stand all amazed at Mr. Geiger's unerring timing. No other human being since Woody Allen's "Zelig" or even Col. Thomas L. Kane has appeared so consistently at the precipice of history-making deals -- "I was in the room" when Elder Godfrey and the hospital were huddling ... "I know this for a fact" ... "I dined with [the floor company owner] multiple times" ... "he told me point blank" ...
All this, yet Mr. Geiger isn't even an elected official! How is it that neither Amy Wicks nor Jesse Garcia, for example, was invited to these summits? My point is, if the tax dollars of Ogdenites are at stake, there must be sunshine and transparency. Have we not had just about enough of decisions made in smoke-filled rooms?
For his "side," Mr. Geiger claims "a Rec Center, Larry Miller, a Hospital, Residential Complexes, Retail Complexes, Hotel Chains, Hollywood, Ski Companies, and a new Ski Resort." I agree that it's not a fair fight. With friends like those, who needs enemies? And does anyone doubt that Larry Miller's designs on Ogden are no less altruistic and benevolent than the Suits' of Sandusky?
Bob
You wrote:
"we've got a Rec Center, Larry Miller, a Hospital, Residential Complexes, Retail Complexes, Hotel Chains, Hollywood, Ski Companies, and a new Ski Resort. "
All talk I might add. Or as they say in Texas "Big hat, no cattle".
The proof is in the pudding. When any of this comes to fruition I will complement you and the mayor mightely and publicly. When any of these dreams and schemes pays even one cent back to the tax payers of Ogden I will be the first to admit I was wrong and apologyze.
Money talks, Bull Shit walks. So far I haven't seen anything but big talk and massive public debt. It all reminds me of the loser at the craps table who keeps desperately rolling the dice with the dream that one more roll and he will hit the jackpot.
Well my friend, Ogden city government under the incompetent leadership of your pal is all tapped out - morally and finanacially. He has done nothing but roll snake eyes for 6 years. The big win is always just around the corner if we will only have faith.
Incidently Bob, I do like and respect you and meant no personal insult with what I have written on the blog - lately. I am attacking the bankrupt ideas and methods, not you.
Mr geiger, criticizing the critics of Ogden government because they have no plans of their own is like criticizing some one who stops a rape because they had no plans of raping the victim themselves.
I sincerly appreciate all of those in Ogden who have played a part in calling attention to this foolishness that has been going on for the last six years. Their courageous actions have been the very best "plans" that any of us could have ever hoped for.
Gaddi Lesham is Hollywood? Comon Bob, Gaddi and his pals are talking with WSC about putting a film school at the college, not feature films mind you, but production type filming. If that works, they may attempt to induce an occassional independent film maker to utilize some production facilities at BDO. End of story. Try as you might, old buddy, that ain't Hollywood.
As for Ernest, that deal's been in the works for longer than you know and the gondola, sorry to say, didn't have anything to do with it. It's a specific, 40 bed hospital that should kick-start the first phase of the River Project. I'm sure they were delighted to hear about a recreation center so their employees can bowl a few lines after work, but their negotiating coming aboard in Ogden, just after the rec center had its ceremony, was just coincidental timing. The rec center was not a deal closer.
I know that you ski company are well received and all, but I don't recall my sources close to City Hall mentioning anything about you being one of the guys whose a decision maker and privy to all of this mysterious stuff that you purport to be happening.
But hang in there, stay up beat, and keep up the good work. And give us a break....none of us are Sherlock Holmes so we need you to come out with the big secrets so we don't get caught sleeping at the freakin switch.
Hey Bob, it’s me—the guy who went on and on about how we should allow leading and emerging industries to invest in Ogden. Last time, you got all huffy and offensive, putting words in my mouth by saying I called Descente a nickel and dime company. Re-read the posts my friend, I called projects like the gondola, rec center, etc. marginal opportunities which would yield only incremental growth at best. I called the projects/ideas, not the ski businesses, nickel and dime operations. That’s my opinion.
Your “side” incessantly demands alternative ideas and plans, but when one is offered, it’s immediately discarded if it doesn’t require significant public investment and some kind of snazzy gimmick. BUT THEN, you’re the first to take credit and claim victory for things you poo pooed only a few months ago.
If you’ll recall, I’m the one who said we have to look at trends like the aging baby-boomer population (throughout the U.S). I’m the one who said we can position ourselves to be attractive to the medical field and gave reasons why. So now you claim that this hospital is considering Ogden because of the HUB??? I’m totally missing that connection. I think it’s more rational to assume they were interested in Ogden because of some of the reasons I gave three months ago:
1. The state of Utah boasts several major medical companies, Merit Medical, Becton-Dickinson, Ballard (which was acquired by Kimberly-Clarke--an Ogden stakeholder), etc...
2. Locally, WSU boasts the best nursing program and a competitive Health and Human Services program.
3. The cost of business would be competitive to any other community.
Are those the only reasons—I doubt it—but clearly their choice has more to do with market and industry factors than with West-facing ski resorts. But hey, I’m not one for self-aggrandizement. If you want to believe it’s because we’ll have a centrally located bowling alley, great.
Also, if you remember, it was I who said we don’t have to settle for manufacturing plants and WalMarts, that we should elevate our standards to include emerging tech companies. But you said before I start “pontificating” about landing the next IBM, I should know that the lofty $700 million sales rep has already wined and dined with the governors, business leaders, and entrepreneurs and learned that nothing will happen without the Hub. But then, low and behold, Alan Hall announces Grow Utah Ventures, an investment group for new tech startups right here in Ogden. But before you claim credit, you should know that you’re not the only one who has a finger on the pulse of the movers and shakers, and I can assure you that Alan has been baking this for some time now, long before the first Lift Ogden meeting.
If you, or I for that matter, are really honest with ourselves and want to assign real credit where credit is due, then here is my stab at it:
1. The rec center is here because no one could come up with a better idea, the natives were getting restless, and it’s a sweet deal for two opportunistic companies.
2. The reputable (and I’m not being sarcastic, I give credit where it’s due) ski companies are here because of the efforts and vision of Mayor Godfrey and his administration
3. The Boyer company and that one developer guy with the pretty drawing of the building has said they will come because of the rec. center
4. Larry Miller and the LDS church are coming because… (prepare for this shocker)… they don’t like the idea of an LDS temple in the ghetto
5. The Treehouse Museum had no where better to go
6. Stuart Reid is here because he also has no better offers, and besides, where can you make this kind of money, with no success, and an unlimited supply of under-the-table sweetheart severance packages. He’d be a fool to leave and get a REAL job.
7. The yet-to-be world class resort will be built, because Snowbasin won't let the gondola through to the real world class resort
8. All the public disgruntlement and negative sentiment and division can be attributed to Mad Matt who has NO leadership skills and redefines the my-way-or-the-highway leadership philosophies. To be fair, maybe the mayor is a fabulous person who really has done a lot more good than we realize, BUT if that is the case, he is a horrible communicator and that’s a part of leadership.
Let me know if I missed anything. Lowly me who has done nothing valuable with my 30 years of life wasn’t invited to breakfast with Chris Peterson and Ed Allen this morning, but I’m sure the esteemed $700 million salesman can enlighten me.
Bob
I just luvs this "Hollywood" talk!
As you may recall when we met last summer I told you I had received my business education at the Hollywood Blvd School of Business. That is why I have such a highly refined bull shit detector!!
There is more bull shit talk in "Hollywood" than any other single place on earth, except for maybe the ninth floor of Ogden city hall.
By the way, just what "big" movies did this guy your talking about produce? and what big time actors did he work with?
I wish all these guys that are trying to do things in Ogden lots and lots of luck, but remember what I wrote earlier - Talk is Cheap.
Well Bobby, ya seemed pretty specific in your first posted guest commentary, about all the "remember this" and "remember that" and there's this Hollywood connection and the world's coming here to ride a yet to be planned gondola. Love your enthusiasm, Bob, but settle down and let's have just a little less of this "I told you so" stuff. Like I erlier said, keep on selling the ski gear because that will keep you in Ogden and, I'm serious here, we do need your fine company, and keep us apprised of all the stuff from "your" City Hall connections, but p-l-e-a-s-e, don't get so carried away that everyone is flaming you. You deserve better, but whoa team.
23 comments, so far. Caramba! This gondola becoming reality. You sure about that, Bob? How so? Things may not just sail through any more, like they used to.
Larry Miller and his signature. Everyone wants to know. No-one does. I wonder if Larry needs to sign a contract with Ogden? Ever think of that possibility?
Does this old story sound familiar, gentle readers?
This Deseret News article was submitted to me this afternoon by one of my favorite Weber County Forum gentle readers.
(wink)
Here are Gadi & Rupert:
Bizazz Media
"Here are Gadi & Rupert"
Oh, Yuch!
And nice lights & sound, Rudi. Remind me to drive by YOUR house some time soon!
From the Bizass web site about Ogden's new Hollywood show biz connection
".......is as energetic as he is eclectic. After a long career as a producer, writer and director for just about every aspect of the entertainment world...."
I do not mean to demean these guys but this could be on the resumes of half the cab drivers in LA.
The question is exactly what movies did they produce, write and direct? What big time projects did they do? What big league actors, writers, etc have they worked with and what did they do with them?
As I said earlier on this thread - Hollywood and "show biz" is absolutely full of bull shit and pretenders! They routinely make their way to places like Ogden and snooker and "dazzle" the unaware locals with their tales of greatness in the "Biz".
You would be surprised at the people out there that claim SAG & DGA membership and other inside connections with Hollywood greatness, and the equal number of gullible people who lap it up.
Incidently, Ogden does have a very fine and talented company that has been here for quite awile doing just this type of production. I believe they are named "Pinnacle"?
The New York Times - Movies - People - Rupert Hitzig
The idea of "Hollywood in Ogden" is not as preposterous as one might think. You need only to take a look at the Everwood location set on 25th Street, although most of the filming is shot at their studios in West Salt Lake and other locations that fit the script. Gail Minkovich, a resident of Ogden, is in casting and gets many Extras from Ogden for the required scenes.
The Utah Film Commission busies itself daily in assisting film makers to come to Utah, filming costs are reasonable here as Utah's a Right to Work state and the unions, SAG, AFTRA, etc. can occassionally be by-passed. Ogden seems to have caught Hollywood's fancy in some regard. The movie "Blind Guy" was filmed here, using BDO production sights, "3 O'clock High" was shot entirely at Ogden High, DiCaprio and Ellen Barkin filemd much of "A Boy's Life" (I don't think that's quite an accurate title, but Robert DiNiro was also in the movie about a family that moved to Concrete, Oregon), as well as other films. The mountain backdrop, Ogden High and 25th Street make for excellent backgrounds and if you watch closely, you'll see bits and snips of our city every now and then, especially the Star Noodle Dragon. Doug Coleman has risen to the top of his profession as one of Hollywood's finest Stunt Coordinators and as a 2nd Unit Director. He is a native of our fair city, moving to California when he "jumped the fence" at a Dukes of Hazzard location. He got his Directors Guild card for filming "The Dream Machine" in the Salt Lake City area and used some of his old pals as stunt players in that movie. Jeff Chumas has followed suit and gets a whole bunch of work as a Stunt Player in Hollywood.
Ozboy is right on with his assessment of Hollywood Blvd and the BS that rules there. Everyone's a Star and everyone has a big movie deal that's just about ready to break. However, it isn't complete BS when it comes to a Hollywood connection with Ogden. It all depends on how you define "Hollywood connection." I doubt, though, that they'll be holding the Oscars here just because Gaddi Leathem has come in and out of town a couple of times. If he can partner with Weber State and develop a film school on campus and utilize the BDO for production facilities, why not? But again, this isn't Dreamworks Studios and I doubt those people are planning to re-locate here.
FYI, there's a website that gives much information on movies, actors, just about anything that has to do with the film industry. It's called IMDB.com. It's used primarily by those who do the movies for real, and just because you might not find a name of some local person on that sight doesn't mean he or she isn't ligitimate in their claims....it just means that they haven't taken the time to register and input all of the information necessary for publication. Like I say, it's for the "real" movie folks used by "real" movie folks.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Thanks Alucard. Seems like there is some people around that see through this "hollywood is coming BS" beside me.
Utah does have a long time association with film production. But it is almost completely due to the great scenery in Southern Utah and the fact that we are a Taft Hartley right to work state. That means that you can not be forced to join a union in order to work. Also our cost of labor and production goods are a lot lower than California.
Our local film industry is always under attack however. A lot of production that might come here goes to Canada instead. They have most of our advantages, but in addition the government there subsidizes productions costs. Filming in Utah has been down in recent years because of this and other factors to lengthy to mention here.
As to the fillm school at Weber. Nice idea, but I doubt it has legs. The University of Utah and Brigham Young both have highly developed film schools and have had for many years. They both spit out many graduates every year - the vast majority of whom never get jobs in the business. Having a degree from a film school is pretty low on the priority list of who ends up with careers in show Biz. It mostly has to do with talent, connections and massive amounts of luck.
As to the studio at BDO? Another nice idea but no cigar - in my opinion. A number of years ago I ran the Osmond Studio in Orem. It was, and is, Utah's biggest and bestest Studio, truly a world class facility. The only big one ever built in Utah for that specific purpose. It was always an extremely hard sell to get companies to film there. The biggest reason was its distance from the SL airport! Bout the same as BDO's distance from same.
With the new technology in sound recording a special studio is no longer necessary for filming. Most any large wharehouse space will do now. Sounds great for the possibilities of the BDO idea, but unfortunately it isn't. The reason being that every large wharehouse space close to the SL airport will be competing for lthe same projects. There are lots and lots of them in that area, and many are constantly looking for and in touch with the location managers of the industry.
Hey FC know it all!
I don't think Larry Miller has any concern for the LDS temple in the ghetto you nitwit. Quit acting like you know so much about Ogden. You ran for office and took 6th place out of 6 candidates, doesn't that tell you something? Speaking of Alan Hall, I wonder if he even knows your name! I mean c'mon your a number cruncher for his telemarketing firm. To assault Mr. Geiger, a proven business man in the community is ridiculous. With all your knowledge of the medical industry I would think you would have had that mole removed from your grill by now.
Maybe Pee Wee G. could get Pee Wee H. to film his next big adventure in Ogden and really put us on the map.
Our little Pee Wee could even get a job as a double for the original Pee Wee as they are spittin images of each other! It would be the first honest work the little jerk has ever had!!
Who is fc? FC ran for city council and didn't make it through the primaries? Can't find his initials, but his comments sure as hell make a lot of sense.
And Bob, settle down and relax. Let's not get so carried away by who got who to come and why. So far, we have a rec center funding program and a General Contractor. Boyer has yet to sign up, Ernest has yet to sign up, Gaddi is, well Gaddi and it's nice that he's sniffing around, but as they say, he ain't Dreamworks. Lots to be done and so far the only guy I've heard wire it all together with the gondola is you. And that thing's just a twinkle in the Mayor's eye and will face a stern test with the new council. Remember, the old council can only do so much in the two meetings they have left.
And this "I told you so" stuff does seem a little beneath you. I'm abit surprised, as that attitude will only stir things up rahter than build a cooperative union that would better the town. Easy, boy, easy.
My apology to the "show biz" guy.
Although he is not the big time movie guy that Mr. Geiger would have us believe he is, he does seem to have some real credits - to his credit. Incidently, based on those credits it would appear that he is much more a New York guy than a Hollywood one.
I wish both he and his buddy, the floor guy, lots of luck. I hope they are able to bring some good stuff to Ogden.
So just exactly how much downtown property does the Allen family own anyway, Bernie?
And just how much do you expect the new developments to increase your family's net worth?
We're onto your scam, now, old buddy.
Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, as the old saying goes, heheh.
Bernie:
Nice list of "accomplishments" that you seem to be crediting your little in law with.
Most is still "talk", and some he didn't have anything to do with.
I noticed you didn't mention screwing the Marshal White Center and Union Depot. Also not on the list is the failing American Can deal, the busted out 25th Condo project, the harrasment of the motel dwellers, the screwed over immigrant merchants, the federal law suit he lost to that Bruce guy, the harrased property owners that he wants to steal the homes of, the legions of people in Ogden that hate his guts, etc, etc.
And what about this idea that the Allen family is in line for tons of profit at the expense of Ogden's citizens? Sounds pretty sleazy to me.
About the only other thing you left off the mayor's hero list is the criminal indictments, oh yea, they haven't happened yet.
Counselor Allen casts himself as Samuel the Lamanite. "Oh ye of little faith!" he chides, wagging a finger at skeptics who lurk herein for not believing the clarion Geigerian voice crying in the wilderness.
Why are development deals that consume our tax dollars moderated, brokered, and broadcast by Professor Geiger? By what means was he vested with authority to bind and loose our tax dollars? Was he sustained as the Oracle of Ogden in stake confurnce? We are kept in the dark. We know only that he shares with Melvin Dummar a talent for stumbling onto history-making events. He is Jilly Rizzo to the mayor's Frank Sinatra.
Oh Moroni how thou enlighten and entertain us with your nuggets of wisdom and timely remarks.
However, one humble correction may be in order.
I think the comparison with Melvin Dummar is far to modest. Melvin seemed to have but one dance with destiny, whereas Mr. Geiger is much more Forrest Gumpian with his presence at most all of Ogden's important moments of late.
I must also add that it is my experience that Mr. Gieger, like Mr. Gump, is a man of honor and good intentions. There is a thread of refreshing simplicity that runs through both of them.
Bob
Hey buddy it's Holiday time! Even Scrooge softened up at Christmas. However, that is not the reason I am having "kind" words" for you. I actually mean them!
By the way, I do intend to try and poke a few holes in your last post!!
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and put your dukes up...
Cat's outta the bag, Bernie.
So how much does your tenant, Descente, North America pay for their occupancy of their new North American headquarters -- net?
You're their landlord, right?
Do you and Descente split the rent check that comes from Japan, evenly; or do Kurt and Bob bank the whole thing, in a trade-off for their shameless and slavish promotion of the Allen Family "Get Rich Quick 'vision'?"
signed,
Yer Busted
Bob G. You're a great guy but I just can't hold back no mo on responding to your last two posts. I will respond in the order that you laid out your points.
I am completely baffled by your tying the "no mention of Ogden on the Snowbasin road" to your imagined "years of attacks on landowners, developers and business endeavors". For starters the "attacks" have not been going on for years and they have not been directed to the above mentioned parties. The "attacks" are almost exclusively directed at Godfrey and his gang who would pretend to be developers and build empires on the backs of the poor and middle classes of Ogden.
Secondly, Earl Holding is a tough smart business guy who never let critisism get under his skin and effect his decisions. Earl Holding has certainly not been driven away, he is way to savvy for that! He hasn't been here all that long in any event. He spent many millions on Snow Basin - in recent memory.
I would think the real reason that there are no signs at Snow Basin directing people to Ogden, if that is indeed the case, is because he doesn't want people going to Ogden instead of his zillions of dollars worth of investments, and five star hotels, the other direction in Salt Lake. I have not seen any critisism of Holding here on this blog, much less any calls for him to "shut down his resort and return it to a single-chair heritage".
There was some strong critisism of him in the beginning over some land swaps with the Forest Service, but it sure as hell didn't slow him down now, did it?
It is pretty naive of you to label the mayor's critics as "self-destructive groups", and the reason you "never seen anything like it" is because you really don't have that much experience in the real world. Stick around, you aint seen nothing yet. My guess is that in twenty years you will look back and shake your head at some of the things you believed in at this time.
The more likely reason that "Ogden has had difficulty attracting businesses and industry" is because of the mayor and his insane top down, my way or the highway, mentality. Ogden is very unfriendly to business and the working class, and is very heavily taxed to boot. We also of course have a crumbling infastructure and a city government that ignores it in their pursuit of grandious dreams. All of this is very unatractive to business.
Another hot flash for you Bob - Ogden has always been the home for the socially, economically and religiously "disenfranchised" of Utah! It started in the 1860's when the railroad came through and it has been that way ever since. That never stopped some of Utah's and America's greatest business leaders from setting up shop here. For instance the - Glasmann's, Eccles, Brownings, Scowcrofts, Goddards, and whoa lo and behold Descente!
For you to say that - "It is silly to say that the Rec Center is the bain of Ogden, but that the land owners of Ogden are selfish in their support of it because the Rec Center will no doubtedly increase their property values." - is, well pretty silly. There are very few land owners, outside of the Allen family and a few other insiders, that are in favor of this boondogle. And it is a complete stretch to think that this Rec Center is some how going to increase property values across Ogden when in fact the very opposite dynamic will most likely occur because of the debt and taxing implications that will come with it.
You said people "hate seeing people reap the rewards of their hard work and their investments"
This is a gross distortion of the debate that has been going on over the Rec Center. What people, including the majority of the voters, hate seeing is a $20 to $40 million dollar investment made, by an arrogant click of politicians and insiders, with their tax money and without their permision. What they hate is for their mayor to lie to them for several years about the true nature of that investment, What they hate is for this all to be for the benefit of a very small group of insiders - at the expense and risk of the tax payers. What they hate are clueless characterizations of the whole thing like you have made here.
There is absolutely no intelligent and independent proof that what you say - "The Rec Center is going to benefit property owners" is in any way true.
Back to Earl Holding. You say - " I think that Earl Holding has been listening to this philosophy spew from our community for too long and hence has distanced himself." Again I say that is a bunch of nonsense. Holding hasn't distanced himself from anything. In fact just the opposite is true. Holding's money is very much in play with all this Malan's basin stuff of his son in laws. Unfortunately Holding had a stroke a couple of years ago and may not be running the show any more anyway. If he were, perhaps a lot of this bull shit might not be happening.
I do hope that "Bernie" is able to educate you a little on the liberal thing. I do not have a problem with Bernie owning "property and looking to increase its value and the value of property that "all of us own".
What I do object to is him trying to do it by promoting the expenditure of vast amounts of public money to inhance the possibility of reaping great rewards himself - again on the backs of the poor and middle classes. Don't sound like much of a liberal to me!
Incidently, I think it is great that "Bernie" saved and is restoring that great old building that you are in. Saving the heritage of Utah is second in my heart only to bashing arrogant and rapacious politicians.
Now to your last post:
If you read both posts back to back you will see a huge contradiction!
In the first you build the case that the naysayer (on this blog?) are driving away all the movers and shakers and empire builders. In the second you say that it is a good thing that those same naysayers are not effective in dicouraging all these new enterprising people from coming! Which way is it Bob, ya can't have it both ways - now can ya?
Your econ 101 lecture was nice, but I think you're pretty naive and self important to say: "This money was not here before Descente came. This is how cities develop. This is how economies grow. This is how nice things begin to happen in our community."
Hot flash here Bob. Ogden has had a lot of nice things happening for a lot longer than you, or me, or mayor Godfrey have been around! And many of those "many contributing, hard working businesses here" are not very happy with all of this use of their taxes to subsidize competing companies that happen to be part of the new inside circle.
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the "content written by many of WCF's gentle readers." I understant that this blog has thousands of readers. Most are probably pretty smart and most I think are voters. I think this blog had a big impact on this last election, and so does several highly respected IT political organizations that are statewide. Sure there are some nut cases lurking around the WCF, maybe I am one of them!, but to underestimate the current and future impact of this blog could very well be a very big mistake for any Ogden mover or shaker or politico. The computer and internet is the future of information dissimination, your own business efforts are proof of that. Rudi definately has something going here and you disparage it and him at your own peril.
I do hope that these other people you mention are able to do good things in Ogden. I do not think that most participants herein are attacking them particularly, again it is the mayor and his methods that recieve the vast majority of the venom.
It does remain to be seen what any of these people you tout can actually deliver. By the way, have you seen Jaws 3? Now you know I just hate to be critical Bob, but what a turkey! It is a gross distortion to some how equate it to the first two Jaws, and to imply that this friend of yours is somehow on the level of Speilberg is very disengenuous. Every revue I was able to find agreed. And just what is it that this dude is "offering to WSU" anyway?
And what has Miller brought to Ogden other than a pep talk? Has he committed? Has he signed a contract? How about Boyer? How about your buddy Peterson, has he done anything beside whack down a bunch of trees and spread a whole lot of big talk around? Has my property value gone up yet because of any of them?
I will lead the cheering section with you if and when any of them build something in Ogden City beside a bunch of hype.
Keep truckin Bob G. Aint nothin happenin unless some one like you keeps gettin up in the mornin and going after it. Also aint nothin gonna happen if people like you don't learn from the mistakes and turkeys that are inevitable along the way.
Preciate Ya...
Bravo, Ozboy.
That's nice, Bob.
I suppose we can logically conclude that the other people... the ones who are opposed to your mindless, evangelical Gondola insanity, are the rest of the names in the Ogden City phone book.
There are thousands of them. Shall I start posting their names here?
Fuck You're Stupid.
REALLY STOOPID!
You come off as Elmer Gantry, with a sleazy telemarketer rolled in.
That's particularly sad.
I'd suggest you spend more time arguing whatever points you have, and a lot less time naming the names of people who may ot may not stand behind you, on every point in each of your ridiculous inspirational rants.
Just the facts, in other words, Bob.
Just make the case in whatever argument you think you're making on your own.
Name dropping doesn't cut it, I'm afraid, Bob.
"Bandwaggoning" is one of the foremost childish logical fallacies.
I suppose I'll have to defer to your expterise on Jerry Springer, since I'ver never watched the program myself. How often do you watch Jerry's show, anyway?
I know some of the people on your list, by the way, and I have serious doubts whether some of the people whose names you've dropped would support you on your every point, especially in your latest "crazed" "attack" mode.
"Ogden has wonderful people in it."
Yes it does. And most of them are convinced you're nuts.
Step off your highhorse, before you embarrass more of the people on your "list."
Lists can be dangerous, when they're in the hands of zealots like you.
Wow Bob, did you uncork one there!
Sure wasn't nice of that dude to drop the "F" bomb now was it? Like you say, he ought to say it to your face so you can punch his in. Course that might only lead to his buddies Smith and Wesson unloading on your face in return. I certainly don't think this debate is worth anything like that.
I learned a long time ago that being good with your fists doesn't really mean very much in the real world. There certainly isn't any fame or fortune in it unless you're way better than any of us are at it. (or in my case was). It never legitimately settled any thing serious that I ever saw. It is a way for the inexperienced in life to settle differences of opinion. Heck, I even have a friend that almost ruined his career as a military officer over punching some moron for insulting his gal pal.
It kind of reminds me of my younger days in the 101st when we would go to Memphis to hang out in bars and look for Marines to kick some butt on. Every once in awhile we would find one that could kick back, and ouch, that wasn't much fun at all! Regardless of which end of the butt kicking I was on, I never did ultimately find much reward in it. I'm just lucky them Jar Heads never had those Smith and Wesson boys with them.
As to your very long list, I think I might agree with that dude about the phone book thing. Incidently what I interpreted him to mean was that he could counter your list with every one in the phone book that was not on your list. I don't think he meant you were just taking names from the phone book.
Course now any one who would drop the "F" bomb where women and children might be could have meant most anything. And who the heck is this Springer you keep mentioning? Am I missing something beside Jeopardy by not watching TV?
My opinion of your list is that most are probably nice, intelligent and well meaning people that care about Ogden and want something good to happen.
Some are free loaders that want the public to pay for their expensive toys.
Some will make a load of money if this stuff happens.
Some are uninformed on these issues.
Some are clueless about most everything.
Some are named twice.
Some are children.
Some have never payed property taxes in Ogden.
Some came to your meeting once out of curiousity.
Some are socialists and think government should take care of everything.
Some have already ripped the city tax payers for big money.
NONE were poor Hispanics or Blacks (30% to 40% of Ogden's population!)
At least one is a venal politician.
And the majority of them are not part of the majority of Ogden voters that said BS to all of this Godfreyite nonsense.
One sincere question here Bob. How can a nice, decent and honorable guy like you continue to support Mayor Godfrey after he repeatedly lied to the citizens about the nature of the Rec Center financing? These are lies incidently that I personally heard him tell on three different occasions.
And finally I do not think your youth and inexperience is a sin or demeaning to you in any way. It is just the way of the world. It don't make you a bad guy. I am very confident that you will turn out just fine and be a very good asset to Ogden for many years into the future.
I am unimpressed by that list of names.
There are many smart people on the list. Unfortunately, intelligence is no cure for naivete.
No matter how many people say a foolish thing, it remains a foolish thing.
Incidentally, with respect to at least one of those names, shouldn't it be "the LATE Len Allen"?
Trevor Cave is exactly on point with this commentary.
http://www.wsusignpost.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2006/01/11/43c4a11062226/
The Gondola project is part of a multi-modal
transportation plan. It is key for Ogden to link itself to the largest recreational attraction being the
local ski resort. The Gondola as currently proposed could be the first stage in a loop around
Ogden's core contributing to and encouraging a pedestrian lifestyle. This is exactly what Chris
Peterson has envisioned for Malan's Basin. Pedestrian communities are the model of the future.
Our motorized culture and the planning that goes with it is dying as it was created on the
shoulders of cheap fuel which is no longer such a luxury. Ogden was a city that was created
during an era of simple transportation and benefits from the density of it's lots and blocks.
This kind of urban density is a perfect model for local public transportation system such as a
gondola. Once the leg is built from Union Station to The top of WSU this will create half of an urban
loop. The other half could be added at a later date and since the maintenance and parts
infrastructure would now be in place concurrent legs would decrease in cost. Such a loop
circumnavigating roughly 24th st/Harrison/36th St/Lincoln or Wall would be walking distance
accessible to most of Ogden's core if stations were built at the corners and mid lines.
Of course this is far beyond what is being proposed but the political process and a few vocal
opponents who lack any vision beyond their windshields prevents such a grander plan from
suggestion.
How nice would the lifestyle be when you could walk to the gondola station and ride to downtown,
pick up a sandwich and then ride to Malan's Basin for an evening hike and sunset photo session.
Then have dinner at the proposed resort and ride the gondola back to downtown for a movie, then
back home. Perhaps Whole Foods or Trader Joes could be lured to the downtown. Whole Foods
recently opened a few stores in Manhattan as an Urban experiment in Grocery retailing and have
rapidly become community focal points with the healthy food and friendly sevice and
surroundings. Grocery shopping in downtown would be such a fine experience, integrating this
key part of life with our downtown.
Communities can actually create a lifestyle with this kind of vision. Ogden's natural pedestrian
density lends itself to this kind of enhancement. Those with no vision of, or simply lacking any
lifestyle, may check out and continue vegetating while the rest of have some fun and enjoy life on
this planet.
Examine the lifestyle of communities with largely pedestrian lifestyles such as those in
Switzerland. They are interconnected by many gondolas, trams and other ropeway conveyances.
These are key infrastructures that make their economy and communities work together with other
local infrastructures such as their ski areas. The population is in much better physical shape than
the average American because of their focus on pedestrian communities and recreation like
mountain climbing and skiing/snowboarding. This is what a country like Switzerland is focused on
while we in the U.S. focus on preserving a dwindling oil supply and obsess about an overblown
perception of worldwide terrorist conspiracy against us. Paranoia anyone?...
Ogden has the most unique location of any western U.S. city. It has the shortest straight line
distance to a major ski area in the world for a city this size. European ski area owners are
astonished at the lost opportunity to link a city of this size to such a local gem as Snowbasin or
the proposed Malan's Basin.
Those resorts represent a huge infrastructural investment by their owner's for the enjoyment of
locals as well as visitors from around the world.
To not connect the city to these key recreational areas is akin to a city building fences around the
city parks. The city has figuratively thumbed it's nose at Earl Holding while he ventured a hundred
million dollars into a playground like no other, right in our own backyard. Some local fools even
have the audacity to claim he made sweetheart deals. Like this guy needs the money. Naturally
any individual investment must stand on it's own but I can imagine that Snowbasin is hardly
profitable next to his other concerns. That makes Snowbasin even more of a gift to our
community. That there would be any negativativity directed at Mr. Holding surely reflects the lack
of vision and poor attitude of a few losers in our community. There a thousands of towns spread
across the country with no such recreational infrastructure. Will those fools please move there
and leave us here to enjoy our natural resources and recreation resorts.
The Sierra club reacts with typical knee jerk fashion opposing any new development on
undeveloped land regardless of human benefit such as getting off their collective swollen asses
and learn to ski or snowboard and enjoy the mountain environment .
Gondolas zip along silently and hardly impact the environment after initial construction. More of
the population that includes the elderly and handicapped can enjoy the high mountain
environment without taking a 40 mile roundtrip to Snowbasin.
Has the Sierra club calculated the impact of roads and endless vehicle miles driven over them to
reach a key recreational area. That recreation area(Mountain Resorts) will be there for a long time.
That is why it is considered part of the local infrastructure. The relative permanance and healthy
recreational opportunity it offers qualifies it the utmost attention to link to the city. This would
reduce a substantial amount of traffic and focus peoples flow to downtown where naturally more
shops will spring up providing all the necessary services that once graced the modern and
thriving Ogden downtown of the 1940's and 50's.
Ogden would instantly become the destination as it once was. The relevance of this cannot be
overstated. No studies need be done. There are hundreds of case studies of existing such
infrastructures around the world that have contributed to the lifestyle of the local population as
well as created a destination for the world to enjoy. Ogden's position to Mount Ogden makes this
engineering project actually much easier than many such installations around the world serving
communities that are a fraction of Ogden's population.
Telluride , Colorado(population approx.2,500!!)has just such a Gondola linking the new mountain
village to the historic town. It became necessary after millions of vehicle trips made the lifestyle
miserable. Now the lifestyle is largely pedestrian and the gondola is filled year round, all day, with
riders who may be skiing, shopping, dating, lunching, going to work, a movie, dinner. To deny
Ogden a similar lifestyle will doom Ogden to continued mediocrity. How can a community that is a
fraction of Ogden's population (just 3%)find so much satisfaction in a Gondola and then some in
Ogden even question it's benefit. They should go to Los Angeles or wherever and be condemned
to automobile hell. I have a better vision for my newly adopted community.
The Few Noisy Naysayers who use typical catch words citing selfish political interests are
comfortable in their well worn computer chairs sipping soda and littering their keyboards with
potato chip crumbs while claiming to represent some kind of stand. They are negative to anything
and they would be best served by a mini Wal Mart on every corner of a depleted city.
And since when is the Sierra club in the Transportation analysis business. Their vision of a perfect
world is everyone in hiking boots, fanny packs and ass-length Patagonia shorts. There are other
forms of mountain enjoyment. They should be on board and be consulting on how to reduce
impact and make this plan as beautiful as it deserves to be.
Where are the Sierra Club when Utah has no glass recycling? This one issue represents far more
negative impact than any of the community enhancements discussed here. Where were the Sierra
Club to protect Glen Canyon 50 years ago. Making deals to seal it's demise is where. Why should
anyone in Utah trust the Sierra Club who singlehandedly sold out the singlemost spectacular
natural resource we had. They now refuse to take a stand against our ghastly war machine. They
relegate themselves to what they do best, whining about minor impacts when the big stuff goes
right over their heads.
Are they investing in Ogden's core? I am. I am encouraging other outsider's to do the same as
Ogden need's fresh blood quite obviously. Buy a rundown house, fix it up. Contribute some pride
in the community. There are many immigrant's and newcomers doing it. It's time for the opposition
to do it, too or sit down and keep quiet. I am here specifically for the potential of the Gondola
project and the quality lifestyle it presents for our community. I am one example of many who are
coming to Ogden for this project. Like it or not the Gondola will be built and Ogden will return to
greatness!!
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