We don’t have the luxury of making decisions based on personal preference or politics.
Matthew "Boss" Godfrey
Emerald City Mayor
Standard-Examiner
May 17, 2007
Yeah.. that's the ticket! Yeah, you betcha!
John Lovitz
Saturday Night Live
November 6, 1985
Ace Reporter Schwebke has picked up on the story we reported on Tuesday, and confirms this morning that Boss Godfrey has succeeded as planned, transferring on May 2 that prime FrontRunner-adjacent Wall Avenue property to his European travelling companion and all-around crony Chris Peterson, notwithstanding Tom Owens' higher $300 thousand purchase offer.
Whether Boss Godfrey and Mr. Peterson merely extended the pre-existing option agreement prior to its expiration, or drew up a new contract from scratch [ignoring the standing Owens offer(s)] we do not know. That's just another piece of information that Ace Reporter Schwebke "forgot" to report.
What Mr. Schwebke does tell us however is that Mr. Owens is taking it all philosophically: "I’m not surprised that it didn’t happen, because I’m not a friend of Matt," Mr. Owens said.
Mr. Owens' statement of course stands in stark contrast to the delightful above-captioned "John Lovitz moment," wherein Boss Godfrey evidently told Ace Reporter Schwebke, with a completely straight face, that Boss Godfrey NEVER plays favorites. Whether Mr. Schwebke believed him, we do not know.
At any rate, we thank Mr. Schwebke for this humorous gem of a quotation.
In an another related Std-Ex story, Amy K. Stewart reports about a slight Ogden School District dilemma. Specifically, due to price inflation in the construction industry, the Ogden schools system is now $40 million short of the the funds necessary to complete its ambitious renovation plans, for which it received public bonding approval only last November.
Can we see by a show of hands amongst our gentle readership how many of you don't believe the lumpencitizens of Emerald will receive similar "sticker shock" when the final bill for the various "Junction" projects come flying in sometime next year? As we know, the Salomon Center plans, like the Ogden School District ones, are almost two years off the drawing board.
And for those Emerald City employees who may have missed the memo:
The taxpayers will be throwing a big party on June 20th.
Have at it, gentle readers.
You've been eerily silent, of late.
Whatsamatta? Cat got yer tongues?
33 comments:
Time to open up the poker pot.
Wanna bet that the soccer field planned to be built on School headquarters land gets built regardless of whether schools get built or renovated.
Well, well, Isn't this special!! I wish that us taxpayers that are paying for this facillity would be able to go to this pic-nic. I think that they should let the whole public in on this fun house for free. after all we are the ones that will be stuck with the bill when it goes belloy up. but I'm sure that when that happens that the city will just tear it dwon and start over like they did with the mall. then instead of paying off 5 million dollar debt it will then total 25 million dollars, boy I wish I had this monopoly money to play with.
This is one employee who won't be going. I am not giving the mayor the pleasure/privilege to brag about the wonderful things he has done. No thanks. Rather spend that time with my family and not be bothered with the politics. However, I wonder if we will be able to have a beer there?? That may make it worth considering.
Wonder how much time and money was put into planning and designing. As opposed to say......official city work
I wonder if Scott Brown will attend the party? I have some papers that need to be served.
Having a party for Employees is City Work...there is nothing wrong with that. If someone said, there will be no party for city employees this year, you'd complain about that.
(1)On eerie silence:
Well, Rudi, there comes a point where repeated "revalations" of Godfrey Administration cronyism slips over into the category of "Breaking news! Sun Sets In West! Film at Ten!"
(2)On the picnic/party for city employees [if that's what it is: link doesn't display on my machine]:
I'm with DAPS on this one. This is the kind of employee appreciation event that happens widely across the spectrum of both public institutions and private ones. And no, I don't think it's a misuse of public funds.
(3) As for the school construction budget shortfall:
It's serious, and it's unfortunate. For the city. For the kids. For all of us. I've overheard [running the Curmudgeon Coffee Shoppe Informal Public Survey... aka shameless eavsdropping] some chortling about the shortfall. Hard to see why anyone would be chortling. This is bad news all around and good news for no one who has the best interestes of Ogden's schoolchildren in particular and the city in general in mind, tax-payers included.
When times are flush [see the recent session of the Utah State legislature, which had pots of money at its disposal to give away and/or to support cutting taxes], civic leaders [sadly too often only politely so called] have an esay time of it. Real leadership emerges when elected civil leaders, like schoolboard members, face serious problems and have to respond rapidly, creatively, and effectively. We're about to learn if we have good leaders on the Ogden Schoolboard, and if so, how many of them there are. Going to be interesting.
(4)By the way, since we're on the topic of civic leadership --- ok, ok, since I've gotten onto that topic:
There is an interesting story in todays SL Trib. Link here.
It seems the move to eliminate UTA and place all transit matters under UDOT [the roadbuilders] is coming back to the next legislative session. Why? Well, the sponsor of the bill last session, Rep. Wayne Harper of Jordan [need I add that he's a Republican?] saw it die when he was asked several questions about his bill and could answer none of them. Now he's worried, he says, that UTA is getting too involved in rail transit instead of bus transit, and the way to deal with that is to eliminate UTA. And he's worried about fiscal management at UTA. [Note: UTA is one of only two transit agencies in the nation with a triple A bond rating.]
Mr. Harper is being supported this time round by Rep. Curtis Oda, Clearfield [need I add that he's a Republican?]. Why does Mr. Oda want to eliminate UTA and place all of its responsibilities under UDOT? Because he's not happy with where UTA is putting the Clearfield Frontrunner station. [No, I am not making this up.]
And as a final example of the kind of "leadership" [you should excuse the expression] we are getting from our legislators these days, the SL Trib reports that at this week's meeting of the legislature's Transportation Interim Committee at which the proposal to eliminate UTA and give UDOT all its responsibilities was discussed, "No one on the committee asked any of the several UDOT officials in the committee room, including executive director John Njord, whether the highway agency wanted to take over transit."
And the beat goes on....
Curm:
Re: Rep. Curtis Oda (R-Pluto).
I just want to add that he's the bright bulb that suggested, in this news story that moved on the AP wire, that an assailant with a sword could "outkill" an assailant with a gun.
That's a patently stupid argument for having concealed weapons on a college campus, clearly refuted by this classic movie clip that Rep. Oda has apparently not yet seen.
Not that it would totally make up the difference,(bond shortfall) but all these corporate wellfare tax increment gifts handed out by the mayor and RDA cause schools to lose critical funding as well. This mayor has led Ogden to almost 100 million debt, for what, 100, give or take,jobs.
Don't ever ever ever forget that ED ALLEN is a democrat and all his kooky family who are the inlaws of your corrupt mayor....who as we keep telling you only registered as a R because he wanted to infiltrate the convention.
Caucuses haven't seen him since. Not at the Lincoln Day dinner either. Thank goodness...the food wasn't that good, that we could have the fish AND godfrey.
Well, the party invitations are out, and the menu planned, schedules for the hilarity are made...so I guess there is a lot of praying going on up at the 9th floor that the the damn thing gets
done!
Is that Miller's place that is jammed up next to that godawful parking structure? Why didn't they tear that ugly thing down? What an eysore!
Why is Ensign Plaza SOUTH on the North end?
Truest:
You wrote: ED ALLEN is a democrat and all his kooky family who are the inlaws of your corrupt mayor.
OK... and so the point would be, what? Jerry Falwell's father was a staunch atheist. From which we are supposed to conclude what? That Falwell was not a Christian because his relatives weren't?
Mr. Allen is a registered Democrat. Mr. Godfrey is a registered Republican. If I were interested in claiming that Mr. Allen is not a Dem [which I am not], I guess I could argue according to your logic [politely so called] that, well, he's not a real Democrat because his daughter is married to the Republican Mayor of Ogden. Mr. Allen and Mr. Godfrey are all grown up and out of knee pants for some time now. They get to declare which party they wish to be members of. Mr. Allen has, wisely, chosen to be a member of Utah's Democratic Party. Mr. Godfrey has, unwisely, chosen to affiliate with the Utah Republican Party. It really is that simple.
As for attendance at political dinners being a measure of party membership: I won't be at the Jefferson-Jackson Day dinner this year. MY party's leaders have priced it beyond reach now. It would cost almost $200 now for me, Mrs. Curmudgeon and The Geezer [Grandma Curmudgeon, just turned 89, who once voted for a Republican --- Dewey --- but she still, to her credit, is apologizing for that momentary lapse in judgment and we have almost forgiven her]. And yes, my Party leaders are hearing about what it means to price the JJ Day Dinner out of reach of the rank and file. They'd better resign themselves to hearing about it a lot. From me. But my not being there will not make me one iota less a Democrat.
I understand your embarassment, True. Really, I do. But your arguments in re: Godfrey on this particular point have the whiff of desperate humiliation, not logic, about them.
truest,
They had to keep the parking structure to accommodate all the gondola riders who will be parking at the mall. But if the Junction development is successful, it's just a matter of time before they start charging to park in the structure--and that'll cut into gondola ridership. If the Junction development isn't successful, gondola ridership also suffers, of course. The whole concept of using downtown for a park-and-ride lot is pretty ridiculous. Normally people ride transit into downtown because parking is scarce there. Wave a gondola in front of his eyes, and our mayor can't tell up from down (or truth from fiction).
Ensign Plaza South is south of the temple. I think the plans also call for an Ensign Plaza North to the north of the temple.
Dan S:
Ah... what is Ensign Plaza [North or South]?
Curmudeon
"Ensign" is sort of an inside MoMo word. As in Ensign peak in SLC. It is also "Ensign" the official Church Magazine, etc.
According to official LDS doctrine: "In Latter Day scriptures "ensign" symbolizes such standards as the new and everlasting covenant, the gospel of salvation, the Latter day Zion and the Church itself".
Around these parts, in these Latter days, it's a good name for stuff like these dueling plazas.
As to your incesant need to label Mr. Godfrey a Republican I can only smile at the notion of someone of the Clintonian Party casting such dispersions on the tired old boring Elephant.
Truth be told Godfrey is both Demo and Repub depending on what suits his needs at the moment. He exlemplifies everything that is bad in both parties. Mainly arrogance and distain for the folks and a reckless disregard for the public treasury.
But the bottom line - He is a product of the Ed Allen Democrat political machine any way you cut it. The attitude of entitelment runs deep with them boys.
Oz:
You wrote: Truth be told Godfrey is both Demo and Repub depending on what suits his needs at the moment.
Oh, I see. He's like Mitt Romney. Whatever polls best at the moment, that's what he's for. Got it now.
Thanks for the info on Ensign Utah context [all of which was news to me], but what I was wondering was simpler: what's the plaza[s]? I suspect I should know, but I don't.
As for "the Clinton party." Ah, yes. The good old says under the Clinton party. When we had a balanced budget. Mostly peace, and a successful military intervention in the Balkans in concert with many European allies [and zero combat fatalities.] We can only hope the Clinton days will return. Soon.
Yeah, I must stand up and defend Good Old (?) Curmudgeon on this one: GW (Buckcherry) Bush is the worst president in the history of the United States of America ... and he's a Republican (that dubious characterization is in the words of my inimitable father, a retired GS-15 civil servant in the Defense Department, a retired Colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve and a lifelong R. So is Gondola Godfrey. So is his chief of police (whom I discovered today, after playing golf at the Ogden City Schools Foundation tournament at Wolf Creek, has quite the prodigious boiler and drives a pimped-out Escalade; what a clown).
what's a "prodigious boiler"?
Big-ass gut, man. Big-ass.
Contact our Senators and read the blurb on the internet about the immigration bill that will be passed without debate!
Millions of illegals will be given legal status!
Beyond that, we need an ordinance here in our fair city that puts fines on landlords who rent to illegals, employers who hire, and for the police to stop and ask for ID! Chief Greiner told me 'it's against the law to ask for ID's".
Read the paper. How many Caucasian names to Hispanic can you count that identify criminals in our area?
These illegals, who are breaking a Federal law are costing America billions across the country.
There are over 80 cities that have passed stringent laws against illegals! When landlords and employers face huge fines and/or jail for abetting these criminals, the illegals leave town in a hurry.
Most of the little kids we tutor in reading are Hispanic. One is teaching his parents to speak English! (Hooray for him!) Teachers spend an inordinate amount of time catering to kids who can't keep up because they don't speak English and don't receive encouragement at home.
I know, I know, life is tough. But, our own school children are being cheated when so much attention, time and resources are spent on children who can't begin to perform in a regular classroom.
One parent throws a fit at the school if the staff don't speak Spanish to her! Yet, she CAN speak English..she just demands that the world kowtow to her.
Our country is in peril. It's time that we speak up and demand that our legislators stop this madness.
WHO is crossing our borders? We really don't know, do we?
If they would protest for redress in their own countries, instead of sneaking in here and demanding their 'rights', they could advance changes there!
I suppose the same idiots who stole my SGO sign from my yard will now do something else equally vindictive.
Sharon:
You wrote: Beyond that, we need an ordinance here in our fair city that puts fines on landlords who rent to illegals, employers who hire, and for the police to stop and ask for ID! Chief Greiner told me 'it's against the law to ask for ID's".
Several points: on fining landlords and emloyers who rent to, or hire, illegal aliens. Laws have been on the books, passed under several administrations [both parties] promising fines, and meaty ones that hurt, for employers knowingly employing illegals. None of these laws has ever worked. [For example, in the Bush administration's current term, four... count 'em four... employers have been convicted under existing laws for hiring illegals. Four. ] One reason is, you must, to break the law, knowingly employ illegals. Or [under your plan], knowingly rent to them. That is often difficult to prove if the person you hired provided American ID [SSN, driver's license, etc.] Forged documents are available, and fairly widely available, I gather from news reports. Sure, we all know the managers of various meat packing plants, say, were hiring illegals and knew it [wink wink, nudge, nudge, don't ask, don't tell]. But proving it is very much another matter. "But everybody knows they're doing it!" is not generally evidence admissable at trial.
I doubt that Chief Greiner told you it was illegal for police to ask for identification. Police ask, legally, for ID all the time. What I suspect he told you is that it is illegal for police to single out Hispanic-appearing people and to demand ID from them when there is no other reason to stop or question them. "Looking Hispanic" should not be enough to trigger a police demand for identification any more than "looking Republican" should be. [Hmmmmmm.... on second thought, let me think that last one over a little....] Or perhaps he said that police cannot demand proof of citizenship [a very different thing than demanding ID]. About that, I'm not sure. I suspect it is not legal for police to insist that anyone they stop for, say, a traffic violation, produce proof of American citizenship. I wonder how someone would do that, right there curbside? I know I don't carry either a birth certificate or a passport around with me.
I don't know if the "compromise" and "bipartisan" legislation annouced today is, on balance, a good idea or not. I haven't seen anything but the first press summaries, and sad experience has taught me not to draw firm conclusions based on that kind of evidence. As with most things, the devil is in the details, and I'll wait to see fuller explanations of the legislation before I make up my mind on it.
But, while I agree that massive illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be addressed, I don't think the problem can be or will be "solved" as simply as I think you believe it can be. It is a very complex problem, and doubt it will be resolved by any simple remedy or even set of simple remedies.
how did we get on to the illegal problem when we were talking about the peewee's play house?
Curm.
I asked Greiner : "What is the ratio of Hispanics to ctrme in Ogden?"
Answer: "I don't know. We're not allowed to ask."
wink wink
Curm...my question was ; "What is the ratio of ILLEGALS to crime in Ogden?"
His reply , "I don't know, we're not allowed to ask."
we're stil winking at this deplorable situation.
Sharon:
I suspect the answer would have been the same had you asked "What's the ratio of Mormons to crime in Ogden?" Or "What's the ratio of blacks to crime in Ogden?" Or "What's the ratio of Italians to crime in Ogden?" In any case, I'm not sure the Chief is correct on this since I see statistics published all the time breaking down convictions and arrests by race. Whether those statistics are compiled only on a state-wide basis, I don't know.
One other point: even if Chief Greiner could give you a breakdown of arrests in Ogden based on ethnicity --- i.e. percentage of total arrests that involved Hispanics --- it would not tell you much about illegal immigration's impact on crime, since there are many millions of American citizens, born and bred right here in the US of A, or immigrants who have become citizens, or legal resident non-citizens who are Hispanic. The assumption built into your question to the chief seems to be that if we find out what percentage of crimes is committed by Hispanics we will know the percentage committed by illegal immigrants. That is flatly not the case.
There reason there may be some restrictions on categorizing crime by ethnicity [and I'd be surprised to learn that there are, by the way, but there could be] is to prevent exactly that kind of assumption [Hispanic=illegal immigrant=criminal element]from appearing in law enforcement agencies. Whatever the solution to the illegal immigration question might be, racial profiling by police should not, can not, be part of it.
The authorities stopped me on the street and said "You look Italian to me, pal. Let's see your ID and proof of citizenship," I'd go through the roof. And rightly so. And so, dear Sharon, if it happened to you, would you. And rightly so.
Sharon:
Ah, just noted your correction to the question you asked. [About illegals, not Hispanics, generically.]That's a very different question. Most of my comments above were directed at your first post of the question [Hispanics].
Sharon, most of them are here to work and do the jobs that our previledged young do not want and
will not do. Jobs that are at the very core of our economy. Jobs that if left undone will result in huge negative economic impacts that will wreak havoc through out the land of Elephants and Donkeys.
Practically every consumable we eat, drink, breath or drive has some element of "illegal" labor in it somewhere. If we rounded them all up and sent them back to Mexico we would very soon thereafter be paying ten bucks for a head of lettuce or two Oranges or three onions. These "illegals" you so distain are an extremely vital cog in the big old throbbing machine that makes life liveable here in the good old red white and blue USofA.
I say we ought to have a "hug a Mexican" day every Sunday as we sit down to our bountiful food laden tables brimming with delectibles delivered to our out sized gullets by the hard working hands of immigrant laborers who toil in the hot fields all day long so that our handsome young sons with the clean finger nails and nice car can trundle off well fed and content to the WSU classes that they are failing.
God luvs them Mexicans, that's why She made so many of them.
Came across the following in the letters column of the SLTrib this morning, and it reminded me, naturally, of the Godfrey administration, Bootjack, Hizzonah's "sell our parks for vacation homes" developments, and such like, and so I thought I'd pass it along to WCF:
"Politics is the conduct of public affairs for private advantage." ---Ambrose Bierce
oz boy-
You and I agree on a lot of things but on the problem of illegal aliens you are ignoring the facts.
The facts are that this country is turning into a third world country before my eyes. My ancestors have fought all the wars since the Revolutionary War to keep this country free.
I'll be damned if I sit by and let you and the politicians turn it into a Juarez or Tia Juana without fighting back.
You haven't bothered to look at the facts which are billions in medical and police costs and welfare.
You need to inform yourself.
Your ignorance is showing. Quit spouting the propaganda put out by Bush and his ilk.
dorothy ,
You failed to mention that a very low percentage of the illegals flooding into this country are going to work in the fields or to pick tomatoes. They are not coming to take farm jobs. They are coming to do construction and learn to do high paying jobs.
Our politicians are stupid enough to give illegal children a tuition break in Utah that out of state citizens do not get.
The illegals traffic in smuggling human beings into this country. They traffic selling drugs and committing crimes so that our prisons are now filled with thousands of them.
They parade in our streets with their Mexican flags and demand equal rights. They have no concept that those rights involve obedience to our laws.
The pregnant ones flood our hospitals for free care and to have babies who become immediate citizens. The rest of us are paying for their free care and welfare.
We are paying for their childrens' free lunches. We are paying for the extra teachers hired to try to teach the children English even though the parents refuse to learn.
We have people waiting in line to come to this country legally and they have waited in line for years.
We take in 2 million legal immigrants every year. Why should wetbacks and other illegals get preferential treatment over these people who are going by the rules?
Ozboy, you are really showing your lack of knowledge that you do not understand the cost to U.S. citizens for all of this.
Are you telling us that it is o.k. with you for an illegal family to file their 1040 tax return on U.S. earnings owing no tax and yet still get a cash tax refund for every child they have when they have paid no tax? This is costing our government several billion dollars every year. This is idiotic.
Are you aware that illegals who have paid any Social Security tax on wages can draw Social Security benefits at retirement? Are you aware that with "chain migration" that one person coming to the U.S. usually brings in 200 to 300 members of his or her family?
I hope you are just trying to get a rise out of some of us and that you really do understand the situation better than you appear to.
If you really do not understand the seriousness of this problem, then I suggest that you educate yourself with the Heritage Foundation's facts on the ultimate cost to you and me and the rest of our country if immigration is not checked.
ozboy :
it's kinda early in the day to be three sheets to the wind as the saying goes.
That is what your post makes me think is happening.
In general, Oz's comments are on target, though sometimes overstated. And the posts of others confuse, or rather conflate, two different issues: costs and justice [or I guess fairness].
On the costs front, the analyses I've seen published suggest that overall, the US gains more from the illiegal immigrants presense [moneywise] than it loses. It's close, and the difference is not much, but it's a slight gain. For example [and it's a complex calculation so remember this is only one example], millions of illegals have social security deducted from their pay checks, and they do not an cannot access social security system benefits. So those taxes they pay are a flat gain for the US. There are many other examples as well, and when you balance it all out [costs vs benefits], it ends up with a slight --- very slight --- plus for the US overall. Or perhaps a push. But the claim, oft repeated, that illegal immigration costs the US billions is flat not sustainable on the evidence. Nor is the claim that "all" the illegals in the US are looking for free handouts. Recall the example of the man deported from Ogden last year. He married here, had a wife and family, owned a home and had established, owned and run a business. He paid property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, social security taxes. We shipped him off to Mexico. The result: his business folded, his family is now fatherless and one welfare, and they almost lost their house [people chipped in to help keep the payments up.] Stable family, successful business and homeowner became failed business, home nearly defaulted on and fatherless family on welfare. I am hard put to see how the hell the US or Utah or Ogden gained anything by that deportation. Didn't see it at the time. Don't see it now.
Part of the problem is too many people focus on one aspect of the situation and try to derive conclusions about the whole complex problem from looking at one part. It is true that millions of the illegals do work at jobs Americans are very reluctant to take. Press reported some months ago millions of dollars worth of west coast fruit crops [which have a relatively narrow window of opportunity for harvest] were left rotting because tightened border controls meant the growers could not find work crews to bring the crop in. Millions in lost revenue [and lost taxes].
On the other hand, illegals absolutely are holding down wages, and taking jobs, in the construction industry, partcularly in places like Texas but also in the Utah. If you focus only on this area of the situation, you can claim they are coming to take the high paying jobs. If you focus only on the farm area, you can say they only do the jobs Americans won't. Again, this is a very complex situation, not a simple one, and there is a whole lot of unjustified generalization going on on both sides, based on using examples that only come from particular instances that provide favorable examples for one side or the other.
The justice element comes in [separately from costs] because it is true millions are waiting to come legally, and it is unjust that those who come illegally should be shunted to the head of the line, so to speak. And some who come are criminals in ways other than border jumping. And some here illegally do drive drunk and kill Amereicans on the highways. [Recent examples in SLC]. So there is a justice or fairness element to all this, and a substantive one. And so on.
There are other consequences. About ten years ago, there was a study of illegals in the home construction industry in Texas, [which heavily employeed illegals for carpentry and concrete and masonry work], because nobody... not TExas, not the US Gov... was seriously enforcing the employeer sanctions. The study concluded that without illegal aliens' labor in Texas home construction, the average price of a new home in Texas would rise about $4500. Two ways to look at that: illegal labor kept new home prices lower, putting more homes within reach of people who might otherwise not be able to afford them. Or 4500 X the number of new homes built in Texas every year equaled the amount of wages lost to American craftsmen because of illegal labor holding wages down.
Again, no simple solution is going to produce results that will work. Not "build a 2000 mile wall," not "send 'em all back" [both impractical ideas], not "amnesty for all and no questions asked." There ARE no simple solutions.
On one point, though, I stand unequivocally with Oz. If a child shows up at an American public school asking to learn, we can not, we should not ever tell him or her "No, you can't come in. Your parents broke the law, so you can't go to school. Go run the streets instead."
No. Not in my country. Not ever.
Curm and Ozboy....get a grip! If you have the sense you purport to have, then fax, email or call not only our senators, but most others back in DC very early Mon morning!
Maybe you two are so wealthy that you don't notice the drain these ILLEGALS are on our resources.
The first time I saw a cake mix with Espanol all over the box, I didn't pick it up. I thot it was coming in from Mexico. Then I realized too many of our products are written with Spanish instructions!
Dang...my g'parents never had Norwegain or Swedish instructions on anything for them in this great land! They assimilated!
They came over here legally and contributed.
I know you both are very young and dashing, but I would ASSUME that the history prof, Curmudgeon, has read of the Great Depression?
Men were deleriously happy to take any kind of honest work to feed their families. What do you mean that we need these illegals here to do the jobs that our 'young' won't do?
Stop giving them allowances for their clothes, dates, cars, and movies. I bet they'd be glad to work, just like my kids did. I imagine Dorothy's kids worked also!
Aren't you sick of parroting the liberal bleeding heart line that we Americans refuse to do certain jobs so we need these criminals? Yes! CRIMINALS. People who do things against the law are ciminals.
Cut off welfare, ADC, renting to illegals, employing illegals and deport!!!, and many will not even attempt to cross over our borders.
WHO ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE???
We have lots of FOM's getting perks in Ogden.
You can bet that those lawbreakers sneaking into our country to suck us dry aren't FOA's...Friends of Amrica.
You want to help these people who 'just want a better life?' Encourage them to stay home and work for better conditions in their own countries. The can band together and march there, just as well as here. May not have the TV cameras and talking heads on CNN covering their antics, but they can effect change there....if they will.
BTW...how come Dorothy and I sign our own names?
Sharon:
Forgive me, but simply asserting things do not make them true. It is as false to deny that many illegals are employed [particularly in agriculture] because growers cannot find Americans willing to do the work as it is false to claim that illegal immigrants do not drive wages down in the construction industries in sunbelt states.
This is another of those instances, I'm afraid, where we do not need passionate pronouncements and ardent demands for simple solutions, but cold reason, careful thought and sober judgment drawing on establishable fact in order to craft a workable solution to a very complex problem.
I think Dorothy and Sharon both need a nap, or maybe a couple of Valuim and a long nap. They both get way too much of their "information" from Fox news and some of these other alarmist right wing nut case radio talking heads.
They also both seem to forget that our great grandparents stole this land from the Mexican's to begin with in 1848. Then they and our grandparents proceeded to marginalize and ghettoize the local Mexican populations and make them second class citizens in the very land that they stole from them.
Now a few lilly white and way to previledged packs of Gringo decendants are getting their panties in a knot over a few poor but honest latinos that want a little slice of that great American Dream and are willing to actually work for it. How much more American can it get than that?
Like i said, the lord luvs them, all of em, and if they are good enought for the Lord they be good enough for this simple uninformed and unneducated hick from the land of Oz.
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