There is a story that's been rattling around the Emerald City rumor-mill for over a month, concerning a purported $2o0 thousand Utah Transit Authority study (we've heard the figure $250 thousand,) aimed at studying the feasibility of gondolas for Emerald City.
This story has finally emerged on the public radar screen this morning however, thanks to this morning's Ace Reporter Schwebke Magnum Opus. We incorporate here the lead paragraphs from this morning's Standard-Examiner article:
OGDEN — The city council is looking into a claim from the city’s administration that Utah Transit Authority has agreed to spend up to $200,000 to study the feasibility of a controversial gondola proposal.The most troubling aspect of this story, to us, is that there seem to be two opposite versions of the facts, depending upon who's telling the story:
Council Chairman Jesse Garcia said the board wants to verify Mayor Matthew Godfrey’s promise that no municipal money is being used to finance the analysis. “We are being told that UTA is behind it,” he said. “There are just things we need to find out.” The council learned about the study from the administration last week, Garcia said. John Patterson, the city’s chief administrative officer, said UTA agreed more than a year ago to fund the study. “It’s old news,” he said. Godfrey said there was no reason to inform the council earlier about the study, which is designed to determine if a gondola is compatible with UTA’s mass-transit objectives.
"It is UTA’s component and doesn’t involve us," he said. "All of this (the study’s findings) … has to come before the council before it makes a final decision (on the gondola proposal). It’s not like it’s secret. The city council has also said it doesn’t want piecemeal information."
Godfrey said he and UTA General Manager John Inglish mutually decided the study should be undertaken.
UTA spokesman Kyle Bennett said it is his understanding that the study is being managed by the city.
He referred questions about funding and the status of the study to UTA Deputy Operations Director Mick Crandell, who could not be reached for comment.
Godfrey said he has received a draft of the study’s financial analysis, but declined to provide a copy to the Standard-Examiner because he isn’t sure if it has been finalized by UTA.
Whereas the city council says it learned of this study only recently, administration spokesman Patterson says it's "old news" -- despite the fact that the Godfrey administration apparently didn't tell anybody about it.
Whereas Boss Godfrey seems to maintain, with a completely straight face, that "it's UTA's component" (whatever that means,) UTA's spokesman insists the study is being "managed by the city."
We especially loved the part of the story where the Boss Godfrey administration admittedly kept the whole situation under wraps -- because the council doesn't like to receive "piecemeal" information. We're betting Boss Godfrey's pinocchio nose grew a full couple of centimeters when the little dissembler suddenly blurted out that tall tale.
We thank Standard-Examiner reporter Schwebke for finally bringing this story out in the open, even though today's report leaves many questions unanswered. And we offer kudos to the city council, for drawing a line in the sand. Additionally, we agree generally with councilman Safsten's possibly prophetic take:
Councilman Rick Safsten said it is troubling that the council has been kept out of the loop regarding the study and predicted it will provide ammunition for gondola opponents.What may not have occurred to councilman Safsten is this fundamental rule which operates in the twisted, inverted MattGodfreyUniverse:
“Those who are most opposed to this will go nuts,” he said.
We sincerely hope Mr. Safsten (and indeed all other council members) will write this down so they don't forget it again. We lumpencitizens, of course, already have the concept down pat. And Mr. Safsten is right: it drives rational and honest people "nuts." Whether it drives delusional gondolist Godfrey-lackeys like Mr. Safsten any more "nuts" than they already are... that's an entirely different question, of course.
There are other interesting aspects to this story; but we'll leave the full analysis to our wise and gentle readers.
The floor is officially open, this rainy Monday morning.
We'd be most interested to hear what our readers have to say about this.
26 comments:
O Man! How can anybody support Mayor mutton head, is beyond me. When is the entire city going to wake up and see how this guy runs things. this is not goood for the city and look what he is doing with our hard earned tax dollars. Does he stil think that this is all play money? I guess that Neil Hansen is the best one out there to change things and make government the way it is to be run. I'm glad he has stepped forward to set thing right. So lets all get behind him and lets make things happen for us instead of for all of the little guys cronees.
I can't believe Godfrey is going to do this to you Ogden people. I have been watching this drama unfold for a while now from my perch in SLC and I can't believe it has gone this far! I don't even need to or watch reality TV because what's going on in O-Town is much more dramatic then anything I have seen. UTA paying for the study?!?! I just hope someone is able to put a stop to this silly Gondola talk. Make sure to get the council to go for a ride in the gondola up at Snowbasin in the middle of the summer. I go biking up there and I can guarantee if its that hot in the gondola at that elevation it will be sweltering down in the valley. Not to mention I am dressed for the heat when going biking, so I can't imagine how bad it would be for someone in a suit (although who knows if anyone will use it). I know this point has already been made, but WAKE UP!!!! You are being grifted!!! I will stay tuned for the next episode of Godfrey Gone Wild. Good luck people of Ogden.
Thanks for the words of support.
It only hurt when we laugh.
I've been told by several people who have served in the Utah Legislature that no one is in control of UTA.
UTA evidently is a government unto themselves and answers to no one.
If this is really true then the next Legislature should change that situation immediately.
Can someone in the know about UTA set the record straight for us lumpen citizens?
Rudi:
You've nailed the key points. It's not "old news" if nobody outside of the Administration knew about it. And apparently, if UTA is to be believed, what it has created is a Matthew Godfrey Slush Fund, to be administered by Matthew Godfrey for the express purpose of serving the interests of Matthew Godfrey. At taxpayer expense, of course.
UTA and Ogden, of course, already paid for a feasibility study, looking at the comparative benefits of three transit options between downtown, WSU [and, for two of the options, McKay-Dee Hospital]: bus rapid transit, streetcar, and gondola. Gondola finished dead last.
So, having entered his hobby horse, the gondola, in a three horse race and having seen his entry come in dead last, Mayor Godfrey has apparently decided to stage instead a one-horse race, and thus to eliminate the depressing probability that his horse will not finish first.
The question is, what in the world possessed UTA to go along with this, and to do it [apparently] in such a way as to put control of the study in the hands of the Administration which has left no doubt about how it wants it all to come out. Anyone who'se been reading the SLTrib series on landslides is well aware that consultant-shopping is not an unknown practice among the municipal governments of Utah. And of course, as the SE reports, the Mayor has refused to make a copy of the agreement between him and UTA public.
Arranging the financing in such a way that the Council has no say as to how it is spent --- and in fact was unaware until recently that another study was underway to supercede the city-financed study already concluded --- raises serious questions, right out of the gate, about the objectivity of whatever "study" Hizzonah decides to spend the UTA Matthew Godfrey Slush Fund money on.
And the article in the SE provides more evidence of this Administration's paranoid penchant for operating in the dark, for keeping from the Council information it not only has a right to but needs to know --- as if we needed more evidence. How the Council will deal with an Administrtion that holds it in contempt is going to be interesting to see.
What Mayor Godfrey does in his capacity as Mayor is the business of the City Council and the people of Ogden. But what the UTA does is the business of our state legislative representatives. I'll be contacting my representative in the State House of Representatives shortly on this, asking that she contact Mr. English of the UTA and ask at least for assurances that the UTA retains enough control over the money that the Mayor will not have a free hand in choosing the consultant or group to carry out the proposed study. At the very least.
And also asking what possessed UTA to drop nearly a quarter of a million or so into Matthew Godfrey's pocket in such a way that there would be no Council involvement or oversight. These seem to me to be reasonable questions, and they are much more likely to be answered coming from state legislators than from ordinary citizens. It might be prudent at this point for people to --- politely, please --- ask their state representatives and state senators to give Mr. English at UTA a call about these matters.
Dropping another quarter of a million or so on a follow up study of the option that finished last in a recent UTA funded study does not seem a wise use of public resourses to me.
Another Lumpen, yes, it is true -- UTA is accountable to no one. The Legislature tried to change that earlier this year, but there were too many unanswered questions. I understand that some of those questions are being researched and another bill to gain control over them will be forthcoming next year.
Well, Brett tried to tell us last Saturday what that deceitful, sneaky mayor was up to – now it’s been verified! We all know that we can’t believe a word Godfrey speaks, especially "It is UTA’s component and doesn’t involve us," he said. "All of this (the study’s findings) … has to come before the council before it makes a final decision (on the gondola proposal). It’s not like it’s secret. The city council has also said it doesn’t want piecemeal information."
Does he really think that we’re going to swallow that crap?! Or is this just another demonstration of what he thinks the IQ of the average Ogden resident is? Why in the hell would UTA fund a feasibility study of the gondola at their expense for Ogden?! And if it’s “no secret,” why wasn’t anyone told that he went behind the backs of the Council members to work on a deal with Mr. Inglish? He knew that the Council would not approve such a wasteful request!
We should support the Council and help them to override Godfrey’s underhanded deal, especially when it uses taxpayer money! It doesn’t matter whether the funding of the study affects Ogden’s transportation dollars from UTA or not, it is an inappropriate use of taxpayer dollars especially since no input or recommendation was sought from the Council or the citizenry of Ogden. But I would be willing to wager that Ms. Jeske is reporting it correctly when she said that a UTA representative had told her that the funding would come from Ogden’s “bus” allotment.
I have copied UTA’s phone number and address from the previous thread so that it is more convenient for everyone to contact UTA to object the gondola study: Telephone number is 801-352-6700, ask to speak to Mr. Inglish or Mr. Michael Allegra, Development Officer, or write to them at:
UTA
ATTN: Mr. Michael Allegra or Mr. Inglish
613 West 6960 South
Draper, UT 84047
I checked their website and could find no email addresses, but if you have a sell phone, you should be able to call UTA toll-free as SLC is within your calling area.
(Also copied from Brett): “Let them know that you are against your tax dollars being used on such a foolish project. Ogden NEEDS a REAL transit system that EVERYONE can ride, and will accommodate the needs of the RESIDENTS of Ogden.”
I liked John’s comment from the previous thread when he also voiced his encouragement to contact UTA, “Fellow-bloggers, be sure to call or write to UTA, as Brett suggests. Whether the mayor agrees or not, we do live in a democratic society! The citizens do have a voice – let it be heard!”
We have GOT TO STOP this lying, stealing, unscrupulous mayor! I feel that it is immoral of you, Mayor, to completely leave the Council out of such big decisions. AH Godfrey, don’t you know that we elected all seven of those Council members to conduct the business of the City and to be a “checks and balance” to you!! (Although Stephenson has been a huge disappointment and Safsten isn’t far behind in doing “the will of the people” who elected them.)
Curmudgeon, can't a copy of that agreement between the mayor and UTA be obtained by a GRAMA request? It is a public document, is it not?
Another:
Good question. It would seem to me it must be a public document, but the details of the GRAMA rules can get complex [what's a "work product," etc.] And as you know, GRAMA requests can take some time... they have so many days in which to respond [I think it's ten], and the response can be "we're working on it," rather than the document. I imagine {I hope} the SE has rushed a GRAMA request in, but in the past, a request for a document from a state agency like UTA, submitted by a state legislator, has gotten nearly instant results.
I don't recall the exact details, but I seem to recall that at one point in the past months the Godfrey administration was refusing to make public some correspondence with UTA. A state legislator simply requested a copy of the letter from UTA and got it faxed to him immediately.
Which is why I suggested folks might want, at this point, to ask their state representatives and senators to start asking questions and requesting documents directly from UTA. UTA tends to listen to people who are going to vote on its budget.
The number for UTA general office is wrong in the above posts.
I think the Ogden number is 627-3500. This gets you to the main office in SLC where English & company are located. Just hang on the line and a live person will pick up and direct you to English. Leave him a message, I just did.
Aww, you know Garcia is just doing this because he's not running for Mayor.
He'd do just about anything to not become Mayor of Ogden.
Apparently, so would Mr. Godfrey.
here is the people that run the uta
UTA Board of Trustees
Inglish and Crandall are away for a few days, but I've spoken with a person who will have the correct information fro me tomorrow.
Then we won't have to get our info 'piecemeal'...we know how we HATE that! So condsiderate of the mayor.
Had the impression that the UTA folks are well informed and aware of this mayor's dissembling!
His reputation is known far and wide.
Will post any information as to which entity is on the hook for the mayor's gondola study: Ogden or UTA.
My guess is that we are, or else Patterson and Godfrey wouldn't be waffling and asking the Council to 'remember' what was said last year.
Just The Facts:
Thanks, Just. Hope you can post the agreement and/or financial analysis of it soon. And forward it to the Council members as well, since Hizonnah seems reluctant to let them know what is going on in their own city's government. As usual.
By the way, just thought I'd back up Rudi's salute to the often-maligned here Standard Examiner and reporter Schwebke for bringing this matter to the forefront, where it needed to be. Good work. And it's not, so far as I noticed this morning, in the SL Trib.
Good, Curm...Scott is getting so much better at finding some quotes...pithy ones too.
A teensy more digging would be helpful, Scott, but you didn't bring out those awful file notes on the gondola this time. Well, at least you said that WSU won't sell.
Now, how about an 'end of the line' quote from Peterson that without WSU there is no gondola??? No gated community?? Then we can put this whole sordid affair to bed.
BTW...how can Godfrey have a gondola to WSU and one connecting at WSU to the fairy resort without WSU's endorsement?
Keep jabbing away, Scott. We avid readers appreciate it.
Good news for those of us who have been calling, faxing, emailing senators over the immigration bill. A break til June. So, if it's important to you, please send your comments to the Senate.
This is a terrible bill, and I'm not sure our country will recover from this folly.
Sharon:
The senate voted today, 69 in favor, to bring the bill to the floor... that's nine more than needed to end cloture and bring the bill to the floor. All that happened after that is the majority leader agreed to a two week debate on the bill rather than a one week debate. And as I understand it, the first week's debate begins now, then to be suspended until after the holiday, when the second week's debate will begin. Doesn't seem to be a delay so much as an extension of time for considering the bill and amendments.
May result in growing opposition. May result in people coming to know what is acutally in the bill [betcha right now most of those writing letters could not give a description of the bills provisions, for better or for worse, other than shouting "amnesty" at their Congressmen]. We'll have to see how it plays out.
My guess is, that the coalition is so fragile, that each side had to swallow so much it did not like to get in the bill provisions it did like, that virtually any amendment may reduce the support to less than a majority. From the debate I watched today, the simplistic question this will probably be reduced to is this: Is the bill worse than continuing the current chaos at the border or is it better than doing nothing?
We shall see.
I can't comprehend how professional transpartation experts could be duped into trying to justify that amount of money on a point to point, mountain transportation system, and have the audacity to term it mass transportation. To be a usefull transit system it must be able to be reliable, have frequent stops and run on a consistant schedule. The ecconomy of gondolas is it's ability to go up and over difficult terrain.(point to point) Turns and stops destoy any ecconmic benefit provided by such a system. Both affect the costs greatly, they have to be manned, at least 2 people per car, so there may be a need for up to 6 workers per stop and turn. These also affect the time, each stop will be a major mess. The thing can't operate in bad weather, it's not mass transit for an urban setting. These professionals know this, they will soon learn the hard lesson, you don't deal with a sociopath, he'll screw you, pandering to this pushy little weasel should kill their reputations.
Bill:
Agreed, but it may depend on who is hired to do the analysis. We have in this country a long history of governments hiring "consultants" or "analysts" who manage to produce the results the people hiring them want produced. I'm not saying this is how the UTA funded gondola study will be done. But I do note that the UTA says management of the grant [and study?] will be the Godfrey administration's responsibility, and [based on its past history], I absolutely am not willing to assume that the administration will act in good faith and choose a wholly impartial consultant/analyst to do the work, if in fact the agreement between UTA and Godfrey [which the public, and apparently the Council, have not yet seen] gives the Mayor the right to choose and hire those doing the study.
Maybe the agreement is not structured that way. But the administration's keeping even the existence of the agreement with UTA [not to mention its terms] secret for the better part of a year does not inspire confidence. Generally, when public officials hide things from the public and from other branches of government, it is because they think it is to their advantage that what they are hiding not be come public knowledge. Hardly a profound observation, I agree; largely a belabored statement of the obvious, but not entirely beside the point in re: Hizzonah's actions to date regarding the creations of the UTA Godfrey Gondola Study Slush Fund.
Picture yourself with samall children or an infirm passenger stuck in a gondola with canyon winds of 90 plus mph, snow blowing and freezing temps! Or, canyon winds of 90 plus mph, rain and HOT humid temps!
godfrey would always be on our minds...just what he desires.
Mercy:
Well, I think the Mayor's 35 to 50 million dollar sky ride for tourists, created at the expense of the city's largest park, is the poster child of Bad Ideas. But the extreme instances you offered up could be concocted for nearly all forms of transit. ["Picture yourself with a small child or infirm passenger as your Frontrunner is derailed following an accident with a semi at a grade crossing."]
And gondolas operate under less than optimal conditions at ski resorts all the time. [Though they shut them down under really bad wind conditions. I asked at Snow Bird about its tram and was told bad crosswinds close it something like 15% of the time, or close to that.]
If the most foolish element of his bizzare double gondola plan --- the flat land two right turn gondola from downtown to WSU that will not service McKay Dee Hospital with its approx. 900,000 patient, family and staff visits per year --- gets built, and it's not air conditioned in the summer and/or heated in the winter, the already wildly speculative "ridership" estimates [based on the flatland gondola connecting to an up mountain gondola that does not exist going to a mini-ski resort in Malan's Basin that does not exist] will become even dicier.
But we don't really have to presume extreme conditions to show what a wildly speculative gamble with the public's money Hizzonah's flatland sky ride for the tourists is and will be.
Curm, a tram is more stable than a gondola, it can operate under more severe conditions. To attempt to compare trams to gondolas will yield flawed conclusions, this has been one of the mayors tactics. They play upon the assumtion that arial cableways are the same, which they are not.
Just speculating but, perhaps this mayor is attempting to finally trying to find out just how much his fantasy sky-ride would actually cost, on what would have the appearance of UTA's nickel, but may be Ogden City's bus revenues. In order to come close to accuracy, they would have to have a definite plan, stops and all. There would be conciderable costs associated with engineering studies. I don't believe that the gondola makers would take on these expenses for what they too would concider such a highly speculative and improbable undertaking. Funny that after 2 plus years of hype and BS, Godfrey would finally get around to exploring the cost of this childish fantasy and in true Godfrey form, there is a very devious element.
One more thought, this may also be a way for Godfrey to do Peterson's leg work on public dollars. The gondola fails miserably if they don't include some other destination, as justification for it's concideration. Could be he's including all Peterson's obligations in this study, on the publics money.
I think the key part of the article is where it states specifically that the study is "designed to determine if a gondola is compatible with UTA’s mass-transit objectives." I thought that answer had already been given: NO. If I recall correctly, in addition to the study in which the gondola finished in last place that Curm referenced, UTA representatives last year emphatically stated that a gondola and a streetcar would oppose each other (ie UTA would not support a streetcar along a similar corridor as the gondola). Although, I do believe that was when the gondoloists were claiming that the gondola could be used as mass transit (now, of course, it's not mass transit it's economic development). It also appears that due to the City's/Mayor's resistance to a streetcar, Ogden will be hardpressed to be able to get anything going in that direction even they do choose to do so (UTA has several projects slated to be completed over the next 10 to 20 years and there is no way I could ever see the Ogden streetcar nudging in w/in the next 20 years or so, even though studies point to its potential). So it goes for Ogden. For a City that is "progressing" we are sure setting ourselves up for failure in the future.
Curmdugeon
In your never ending zeal to discredit our dear Mayor's wonderful vision of Gondolas in Ogden skies, you have once again propogated a false hood. To wit: "the flat land two right turn gondola from downtown to WSU...."
I will have you know sir that you are flat out wrong. The "Urban" gondola you so malign is slated to have one right turn and one left turn. To attack our Mayor's genius is one thing, but to do it with disingenuous and evil false hoods is completely unacceptable.
Every one who has studied the Gondola, and the consequent salvation of Ogden that it will bring, knows that if it were to make two right turn as you suggest it would then become nothing but a fiasco that went nowhere and did nothing just like you critics do on a daily basis. This of course is your purpose in spreading such vile rumours as "two right turns". Do you know no shame? Well I have news for you, your dirty little trick is not going to work this time. I have caught you red handed and with lies on your keyboard and I will take this to the highest court in the land so that the people of Ogden will then know who is true and who is false.
Please take a page from the Rev Sharptons book and immediately apologize to the Mayor and his fine brain trust that do so much for Ogden while you and your ilk do nothing but carp and denigrate the brilliance shown by these incredibly far thinking masters at the Helm of the good ship Ogden.
Two right turns indeed! You clearly do not understand the concept yet you and that horrid woman from North Ogden that Chief Greiner warned us about do nothing but attack all that is good in Ogden.
Oz:
Well, I just naturally assumed that Ogden's Republican Mayor, Matthew Godfrey [aka "Hizonnah"] would find any left turns ideologically unacceptable. And continual turns to the right that don't lead anywhere are, after all, his party's hallmark these days.
What I meant to say, really, was " flatland two right-angle turn sky ride for tourists." In my typing haste, I left out "angle."
Mea culpa....
Which will of course not stop me, if and when the long-promised and much delayed and so far mythical "Peterson Proposal" [also know as "Son of the Ellison Ordinance" ] ever appears, and presuming it includes even a rudimentary artists conception map of the Mayor's flatland tourist sky ride, from pointing to the turn off Harrison to WSU and announcing REPUBLICAN MAYOR RECOMMENDS TURN TO LEFT FOR OGDEN CITY.
[grin]
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