This morning's Standard-Examiner letters section includes a reader letter, framing a thought that has rattled through the brain of many an Ogdenite in recent years:
It's time Ogden addresses safety issuesThe spate of recent Emerald City gang violence has many of the lumpencitizens scratching their heads, wondering how it was possible for Boss Godfrey to have so casually neglected the festering criminal culture which appears to have arisen in our city during his 7-1/2 year administration.
I would like to congratulate Mayor Godfrey on the new downtown developments. Now, if it just felt safe to leave my house.
Jay Hartwell
Ogden
During the years the Ogden Police were screaming for more funds and manpower to fight our city's looming crime problems, Boss Godfrey responded by doubling personnel in the Traffic Division. As it became obvious to every "street cop" in Ogden that our OPD Patrol Division, Narcotic Unit, Gang Unit and the Detective Division were laughably understaffed and underpaid, Boss Godfrey misapplied police manpower to the writing of traffic citations.
And now that our city has arrived in the unenviable position of arguably becoming the violent crime capitol of Utah, the citizens of Ogden are falling back on quick-but-cheap solutions:
• Last Wednesday, Boss Godfrey held a press conference to announce an eleventh-hour administration "War on Gangs," an obvious band-aid approach, which boils down to adding a mere two OPD vehicle patrol units to the thousands of miles of Emerald City streets.
• Today, the Std-Ex breathlessly announces the arrival in Emerald City of New York City's famous "Guardian Angels." We'll assume that this is a purely citizen-initiated, do-it-yourself approach, inasmuch as Boss Godfrey held no press conference.
And yet even now, Boss Godfrey has announced no comprehensive plan to seriously beef up the OPD division that is charged with the duty of patrolling Ogden City's thousands of miles of streets, nor to provide direly-needed funding to the Gang Unit or other sub-divisions in the Ogden City Police Department whose missions are to fight actual crime.
Somehow, in our blindness, we citizens of Emerald City allowed ourselves to twice elect to the mayoral office a man whose priorities are obsessively focused on building monuments to himself, and always giving a friendly helping hand to his crony friends. During nearly eight years in office, Boss Godfrey has evidenced neither the interest nor the inclination to devote himself to the fundamental tasks of administering our city. Our public safety is of little concern to a man who considers the city that he governs to be his personal monopoly board.
At this point we're going to segue to an article appearing in yesterday's Salt Lake City Weekly, about the City of Murray, a Utah blue-collar town with demographics quite similar to ours. And from that article -- we'll extract what we believe to be some very wise observations:
It depends on what you’re looking for, but for smart residents of the area, Murray fits the bill as the valley’s top city. Murray has a mayor who spends more time administering his city than trying to put it “on the map.” Murray has its own cops and fire department. It has its own school district, its own water and its own electricity. Murray has everything any decent taxpayer could want from Little Leagues to fine parks and recreation centers to decent roads and safe streets. Murray has its own parades, fireworks and picnics. Yet two things clearly stand out in Murray’s favor: lots of bars and low taxes.What Mr. Salas doesn't tell us is that, although his Murray property values "went up," ("dramatically" he says,) they obviously didn't "go up" nearly as dramatically as those of his neighbors in other communities in Salt Lake County -- communities who aggressively (and blindly, we think) continue to pursue the government-driven economic development siren-call. Thus Mr. Salas's tax bill actually declined, even though his property value had risen. In the final analysis, his increased property value apparently represented a smaller slice of the tax assessment pie than that of like-situated taxpayers in neighboring communities.
Tax appraisals and assessments were recently sent to area homeowners. As folks opened those letters, slight registries were made at the University of Utah’s seismic center as one person after the other fainted and fell to ground. Blip. Blip. Blip. Many of them got up and sent bitchy letters to the editor to local newspapers. As if that would help—criminy, people, the local papers want land values to go up! A depressed community can’t support crappy newspapers! Have you missed all those glowing reports of how fast our homes are accelerating in value? Weren’t you pleased to read about that and then nearly spending your newfound riches? Only to find that there are not enough qualified buyers or Californians to go around? But your appraisals and associated taxes went up anyway?
I opened my appraisal letter and saw that Salt Lake County claims my home is far more valuable than I thought. They have it increasing dramatically over the prior year, like homes across the valley. Then I looked at the next line that says how much tax I have to pay this year on my home. I live in Murray. What, me worry? Nope. My property taxes went down around 10 percent from the year prior.
Food for thought for the Emerald City lumpencitizens, we think. What true value do citizens of a stable community place on increased property values anyway, unless they're planning to sell their properties, or buy new toys through financially imprudent, equity-gobbling second mortgages?
As the September 11 municipal primary approaches, perhaps it's time we gave a thought to our priorities as a community. How much aggressive government-driven development is enough, we ask? Will we ever know when we've had enough?
Is it time for the residents of Emerald City to elect a mayor who spends more time administering his city than trying to put it “on the map?” Is it time to once again rely primarily on the time-tested forces of the free market? Isn't it time to insist that Boss Godfrey play the game of "Monopoly" with somebody else's "Monopoly Board?" And what about public safety? How long can this city keep it on the back-burner?
We wonder what our gentle readers think about all this.
Don't let the cat get your tongues.
79 comments:
Press release just received from Ogden City Council:
Ogden City Council Press Release
For immediate release
Contact: Jesse Garcia
(801) 603-8522
Ogden City Council Chair Garcia to lead crime discussion
OGDEN, UTAH (Aug. 10, 2007) — Ogden City Council Chair Jesse Garcia is
convening a meeting on Monday, Aug. 13 at 6 p.m. at the Ogden-Weber Community Action Partnership Center at 3159 Grant Ave. to address crime in Ogden. The purpose of the meeting is to explore solutions to recent problems that have stemmed from an increase of violent gang-related crime in the community. All residents are welcome to attend.
I've been away for some time, but I'm outraged that NOW during his re election campaign, our young, ego-driven mayor decides to address crime'!
He's had 7 years to give cops the tools to make our city SAFE....to address the illegal aliens flooding our city... many of whom are in gangs and committing heinous crimes daily.
Godfrey never supported the cops and firefighters...instead he put them in untenable positions of impotency to defend, protect the citizens and fight crime.
Our cops have been 'protecting' us in unsafe cars. How about waiting for the cops to arrive to save you from thugs and the cop car has broken down blocks from your home??? How about our cops and firefighters running into buildings that are saturated with carbon monoxide? And, our brave servants of the people can't get this legacy seeking mayor to issue CO detectors?
Shame, shame shame,.
Now we hae the legendary Gaurdian Angels in Ogden urging folks to take back their streets and defend against these gangs.
Oh, and let us not forget how Godfrey bribes nearly every new 'entrepenuer' with OUR tax dollars just for coming into town?
It's a disgrace that this little man wants the City Council to give about $300,000. bucks to the WHO ARE THEY??? Windsor Hotel owners!
Hey, mayor, how abut taking your new BFF to the local bank and introducing them to the loan officer? That's how to grow our economy. The bank makes a little profit, the new 'fixer upper' guys from CA get their loan, and we taxpayers get to keep some money in the coffers for the things that matter: like sewer and road repairs.
Besides running, what else did Matt accomplish in college? It sure wasn't getting a grip on economics.
We often see children 'buying favors and friendship' to be in the inner circle. Most outgrow that chidish behavior, but sadly, some like Matt, think that giving away other peoples' money to ingratiate himself and build that legacy, is the only way to opeate.
Remember when we were fighting being bonded for Gold's Gym? Remember Godfrey exclaiming..."this isn't real money"?
Yeah, Matt, it is real money...it just ain't your's.
I understand Gold's Gym....that first in the country gym to anchor a mall....is now showing the shoddy workmanship! Ain't we glad we get to pay for that sham for decades?? How many other carny exhibits at the Junction are also falling down?
But, it's an election year and Matt is puffing out his little chest to declaare war on crime. Hey, Matt....start with the 9th floor!
Rudi:
One common mispreception perpetuated in your comments is that an increase in property values causes an increase in property taxes. With a few caveats, this is incorrect. When property values increase, the "certified tax rate" decreases for the purpose of creating a revenue neutral outcome. Of course, tax rates could go up if a tax increase approved by the City. But, Ogden City has not approved a tax increase for many years, and not during the Godfrey adminstration. Perhaps the school district and other taxing entities has increased taxes, but there has been no increase from the city.
The various factors that affect property taxes are described in the following site:
Property Taxes, Part 2: why did my taxes go up?
Fact Checker:
What I think most folks look at is the bottom line "total tax" box. And mine is up, both under the existing budget [up about 150] or the new budget, if approved [up about 50]. So long as that bottom box total tax owed is larger than it was last year, I don't think explanations --- however valid --- of why will resonate much with voters. All they'll know is up it is. And if the tax notices are to have political impact, that's what will do it.
I agree, that a full understand of all the elements that go into that number might mitigate public irritation or even eliminate it. But I don't think most voters will put any serious time into unraveling the rates, and understanding why their "total tax" number is up.
Sadly, modern American political culture is largely a "sound bite" culture in which there is not much room for, and, sadly, little inclination by most folks [so far as I can tell] to engage in, the digging necessary to understand things beyond the sound bite level.
Too pessimistic? Maybe. But I don't think so. The sorry spectacles of Republican and Democratic candidates trying to explain complex matters in 30 seconds we have inexplicably come to call "debates" is pretty good evidence supporting my pessimism on this, I think.
Thanks for the link, Fact Checker. We're actually quite familiar with "Truth in Taxation" provisions, but we don't believe it's reasonable to speculate that this alone would account for the author's reported property 10% tax decrease, although we concede it might be a slight contributing factor.
Here are the five factors mentioned in the most-excellent UTA article:
1) Property valuations increase faster in one area than in other areas
2) Local governments issue or retire voter approved general obligation bonds
3) Local government raises taxes
4) Local government imposes judgment levy
5) Other factors: BOE adjustments, delinquent taxpayers, centrally assessed properties
Only the first two (or possibly BOE adjustments in item 5) would logically result in a substantial tax decrease such as was reported; and inasmuch as the author mentioned neither the retirement of GO bonds nor BOE adjustments, we believe that the most locical explanation goes back to item "1," i.e., "property valuations increasing faster" in communities neighboring the City of Murray.
Do you have any quarrel with that deduction; or did you merely link the article without understanding it?
Thanks for playing.
How many "high adventure" companies will want to move to Ogden if the high adventure of dodging bullets, having your house broken into, and being held up at gun/knife point is included in the package?
Makes me think that Matt isn't too smart.
Rudi:
Perhaps the best response to your point is expressed best in the "most-excellent article" itself:
"However, properties that increased faster than the county (and/or school district/city/special service district) average will experience an increase in property taxes while others will experience a decrease. In the end, it all works out because other parts of the county and school district will be reassessed in following years and their taxes will increase while everyone else’s decreases."
So, even though disproportionate increases in valuation cause short increases or decreases in tax rates for some neighborhoods, it evens out over time as valuations are reassessed.
I short, the Murray gentleman that is thrilled that his tax rate decreased 10% this year is almost sure be disppointed by a tax increase in future years--and no doubt that the poor mayor who is in office when this happens is going to hear about.
Curm: you are undoubtly correct that voters are not interested or aware of the finer points of taxation. But, that's a political issue, whereas, I just do facts.
Your quote (from the UTA site): "...it all works out because other parts of the county and school district will be reassessed in following years and their taxes will increase while everyone else’s decreases."
Did you actually READ the City Weekly article, Fact Checker?!?!?!?
Per Mr. Salas: "I opened my appraisal letter and saw that Salt Lake County claims my home is far more valuable than I thought. They have it increasing dramatically over the prior year, like homes across the valley."
Q: You understand what that means, right?
A: It means that Mr. Salas's property was re-assessed this year.
Oops! There goes your argument. Sorry!
SHEESH!
FC: "I just do facts."
Too funny.
Rudi:
Actually, I believe that property valuations go up each year based on a county wide multiplication factor. So, a stated increase in valuation does not constitute a reassessment or reappraisal. Indeed, my stated property value has gone up every year on my tax statement, yet I know it is not assessed every year. It's the occassional re-assessment that corrects valuation errors made over time by this process.
FF: "I believe that property valuations go up each year based on a county wide multiplication factor."
Well you should just keep on believin', eh Bill...er...I mean Fact Finder?
Never let "the facts" get in the way of good solid speculation, eh old buddy?
We don't know what they're payin' yas down there at the economic development department to kiss Boss Godfrey's ass, but we're sure Boss Godfrey laughs daily about how you made yourself into the all-time boot-lickin' knave, and an outcast in your own community, when ya's sold yer soul to the devil not too long ago.
Instant Karma's gonna getcha, son.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Mr. I just do facts, here one to chew on. Defending lying little matty with tax code arguments, must mean you really won't address the larger issues.
Ogden has recently suffered a rash of gang shootings, do you believe as the mayor implied with his recent quote to the paper that it's just a couple of hooligans? This on the heels of a couple of questionable gang ordinances and the addition of a couple patrolmen.
Do you believe this situation just popped up and hasn't happened before in Ogden? Do you buy into this mayor's downplaying the severity of the situation?
I personally am appalled at this mayors response to this current situation. What disrespect for the victims, their families and friends.How about the people that live in those neighborhoods?
This mayors response leaves us only two conclussions, he's either a blind fool, or he's decided the people are.
The appearance of the guadian angels does not coincide with some random acts of a couple of hooligans, they just rush out from New Jersey to gain some local headlines. Fact is, Ogden has a big problem that has been growing quite steadily during this mayors time in office. They've had the run of the town for seven plus years, and it's effecting the whole intermountain region.
The meth problem that nearly destroyed 2 generations on the Wind River Reservation was conducted right out of Ogden.
There's been alot of death, just because the paper doesn't mention gangs, doesn't mean it isn't gang related. And it's not kids, these gangs are very connected criminal enterprizes and produce huge profits for the folks at the top.
And it's not confined ethnicly either, recall the guy that shot the cop recently.
Lying little matty's total preoccupation with enriching his friends with tax dollars has created the most fertile enviorment for these gangs to flourish.
good on ya, Bill!
The crime problem in Ogden is a disgrace. Pretty bad when we make national news with the Gaurdian Angels coming to clean up our neighborhoods?
Does this little numbskull have any shame?
I went into government to get rich. I'm succeeding at that, far beyond my initial expectaions.
There's no way any of you can stop me. I have $200 thousand + committed already to my 2007 re-election warchest.
Read this and weep, Ogden City sheep.
There's no way any of you can stop me, as I said.
Just want to point out that "Fact Checker's" posts above all deal exclusively with how local property tax bills are determined. Period. [I just reread them all.] Doesn't seem to me any of his posts constituted "defending" the Mayor. Nor do I see why someone discussing a matter such as how property tax bills are determined should be attacked for not discussing crime rates etc. etc.
Sometimes, the tendency to see any post that does not specifically attack the Mayor's record across the board as a defense of Hizzonah's administration gets way out of hand. As it did, I think, this time.
What BULLSHIT, Curm. Fact Finder (aka Bill Glasmann) is the one who brought the subject of Boss Godfrey up specifically, when he said:
"But, Ogden City has not approved a tax increase for many years, and not during the Godfrey adminstration."
Sometimes we wonder whose side you're really on, BTW.
Rudi:
Two points. First, it doesn't matter a hill of beans who "Fact Checker" is. His statements like the one you cite are either right or they are not. Period. Whether it's Mr. Glassman or Bill C.'s Aunt Matilda who make them. Is he correct? Is it truce that the Godfrey administration has not "approved a tax increase?" That's a simple question of fact. Either right or wrong. If you think it's wrong [and for all I know it may be] seems to me the way to refute it is to point to specific tax increases approved by Hizzonah. I notice you included none in your post just above.
Second, you wrote: Sometimes we wonder whose side you're really on, BTW. Oh, that's an easy one. I'm always on the side of whoever is right about whatever issue is being discussed. And since [stopped clock right twice a day analogy here] Hizzonah will occasionally be right about some policies, proposals and programs, I see no reason not to support him on those issues.
"Is he correct?"
1)(a) No. Glasmann is famous for his thoroughly faulty logic and mendacity; thus his identity affects his credibility, and is therefore enirely relevant to the discussion.
In U.S. courts of law, the foremost western institutions designed for finding truth and fact, reputational evidence re truth and veracity is therefore a primary factor in determining credibility.
(b) His argument is not founded upon the "facts," at least not as presented in the SL Weekly article. He's also now inserted the speculation that Mr. Salas's "drastic" property value re-evaluation must be the result of some vague mathematical formula, rather than a new property "assessment" (bureaucratese for "appraisal".) Ultimately, Glasmann, the "fact finder," resorts to speculation in his most recent argument, when he asserts, without factual foundation that Mr. Salas's "drastic" property value uptick is the result of a speculative "formula."
2) Always on the side of truth, eh? Well... your standards of truth-finding often require near absolute proof, whereas election voters usually require a preponderance of evidence -- or merely a "visceral sense."
With the primary election a few hours from a month away, we'd suggest you "lighten up" a little bit.
We'll kindly remind you: Nobody appointed you "board nanny."
Why not let the board discussion "flow," we ask
Godfrey of in incapable of mending fences!
I am not sure if anyone knows this little tidbit or not. Godfrey has been chopping the budget, that goes to the Strike Force, Gang Unit, and Patrol Division ever since he’s been Mayor. Chief Senator Greiner is his “RIGHT HAND YES MAN.” He doesn’t have the guts to tell the Administration nor the Council, that his men are understaffed and under-paid. Instead he had to run for the State Senate to beg the State for funds for his men. Their moral is so low that they now have the highest turn over in the state. Now Ogden City has to spend money that they should have been spending all along on recruitment. The ads in the newspapers and giant billboards speak for its self. Just ask how many of them have had their cars break down on high-speed chases!
The Godfrey administration uses your tax dollars for business, and then asks business to donate money for cars for the police. Mean while calling cops “wieners.”
Godfrey has spun government upside down. When I hear a politicians say we need less government. This is what they mean. It takes funds away from your Public Safety.
The administration had Senator Jenkins sponsor a bill to eliminate the Civil Service Commission, also having their paid lobbyist, which is (GOVERNMENT WASTE) push the bill through the legislature. (This was a knife in the backs of the Cops and Firefighter). Sadly the bill passed. Because of (Rep Neil Hansen) speaking out to the press, he went to bat for us Cops and Firefighters. The city council, thank God, refused to abolish the commission, which would have been a bad thing for Police and Firefighters in Ogden, placing them into an at-will employee’s status. I am pretty sure that if the Mayor gets re-elected he will push to abolish the commission again with the new council.
I am just saying people need to be very cognizant of the placement of the hands of the present administration when they are reaching out to mend fences. It's hard to trust someone when they have a track record of not so forthright maneuvering. When I hear a politicians say we need less government. This is what they mean.
We need to have a strong government, that is; “We the people, by the people, for the people.”
If you support those of us, who risk our lives to serve and protect? From what I’ve seen of the five term State Rep Neil Hansen has the vision, experience, dedication to revitalize Ogden and its safety, in the most cost effective way! The true winners will be the people of Ogden.
By the way Rudi; thank you for telling it like it is.
Rudi:
First, I notice you offered no example of a tax increase the Godfrey administration approved, so I presume Fact Checker was right about that. I also note that that was the only point I brought up, and his claims in that regard are what you offered as evidence of his "defending" the Godfrey administration. So, it seems, he was right about that.
Second in re: "board nanny" and "let the discussion flow." Since I cut off no one [not being board meister I couldn't cut a post if I wanted to], and since as you have often said you want WCF to be a place where all can post and discuss the issues before the County, from all sides and all points of view, I think posting in opposition to what someone says here is "letting the discussion flow." Or encouraging it to. Not much point in having a public affairs blog if people decide not to post when they see something here they disagree with.
Finally, as to "absolute proof," yes, it's nice when you get that. But I think too many allegations that appear on blogs [and not just this one] contain no, or very nearly no, evidence at all. What made the recent story of the Administration's dissembling and perfidy in the matter of the UTA gondola grant was Dan. S. uncovering the documents that nailed the suspicions down, that exposed the Administration's henchmen in their own words. That's what got the SE to move on the story... twice... and to do the editorial on it as well. And so that's what brought the story to many thousands more than read the WCF. Dan's posting excerpts of the evidence he dug up here, and your making photo copies of them available, and all that going as well to the SE are what drove the story. The documents. The evidence. The proof. The posting here of the actual documents. So yes, damn right I want strong evidence for allegations made regarding the administration because digging up that evidence is the most effective way to prove to people not yet convinced that granting Mayor Godfrey a third term will not be in the best interests of the people of Ogden.
And when I see posts that I think undermine the effort to end Godfrey's reign as Mayor... like Jersey Jim's post above... I'll keep on saying so. Posts like "Just A Cop's" above are far more. effective.
John Patterson response was very well scripted considering that he almost had a full week to sit down and try to make the corruption sound very logically and very honest. The sad thing is because all of the lies that have gone on in this Godfrey Administration, you don’t even know what is really correct or was what some liars call just a small whopper, which are not lies it is just a bending of the truth. The only time I have heard a person that used this form of reasoning is from a person who was a pathological liar themselves.
Abe Lincoln once coined a phrase that went like this:
You can fool some of the people all the time,
And you can fool all of the people some of the time,
But you can not fool all the people all of the time.
However, like many of the politicians like Godfrey have discovered a new twist to this saying by Abe Lincoln, which they included this next line.
However, you can fool most of the people most of the time and that is what will get you elected and keep you in office.
On the general topic of the art [it is clearly not a science] of revising property assessments in the light of rising property values, there is
this from this morning's Salt Lake Tribune:
Big lots, little lots - all are worth $100K, declares Davis County assessor
By Cathy McKitrick
The Salt Lake Tribune
NORTH SALT LAKE - Whether the result of fuzzy math or convenient calculating, the latest property valuations have North Salt Lake officials scratching their scalps.
How, they wonder, can one lot in a subdivision be worth the same amount as another parcel twice as big in the same neighborhood?
That's what happened in Foxboro - a newer, densely packed subdivision on this Davis County city's west side - where most of the one- and two-story homes sit on lots ranging from one-tenth to two-tenths of an acre.
Now those lots, regardless of size, are each worth $100,000, according to the county assessor.
"You can't tell me one lot and another twice its size can both be valued at the same price," said North Salt Lake Mayor Shanna Schaefermeyer.
Turns out Foxboro's uniform land assessment is part of the county's effort to catch values up to the booming real estate market.
Worth reading the whole story. It gets even better further down.
One nice thing about Utah is that when property valuations go up, the county has to lower the rate so taxes stay the same. That is what happened with my local property this year.
In another state where I own property they do not do that. If property valuations go up 50%, then the county takes in 50% more tax.
And it would be nice if the city government would focus on services rather than using the city as a Monopoly board. I'm still appalled that the river district was confiscated by the government, then years later, they still have no plan what to do with it. Why should they? It's their property.
Thanks to Chris Buttars for changing all that.
Fact Checker……Are you a MORON???
Most people in Ogden City just got their property tax notices and most have of their taxes have increased a whopping 20%. My question to you is how do politicians increase your taxes without increasing your taxes???? They just have the county assessors reassess your property value. The next question is; How do they know my property is really worth that? Especially when my property been on the market for the last several years and I can not sell it close to what the assessors believe it is worth?
This dirty little trick has been used with politicians like Godfrey that claim that they will lower your taxes if they are elected. Then the next thing you see that not only have they pull this dirty little trick of sending out the Weber county assessors but they are now sneaking in a tax hike on your water bill to boot on your property tax.
Now for the next question! What is the life saving commodity that we all need to have to live from day to day that we are paying for this commodity three different ways?
Ogden City Water!!!!
1) Once every month on your water bill. (For using the water)
2) Then again on your yearly property tax call Weber Basin General. (Whether you actually use it or not).
3) Then again on your property tax that is called Weber Basin Ogden.
Now here is the real kicker, if your grass starts to turn brown they send out the Ordinance code enforcement to write you up for this. While you hear adds on radio and TV. to conserve water because the state is in a drought and this is a desert state. You then, tell them this is what you are doing and they respond with either start watering your lawn or,
Just paint your lawn with green paint. How stupid and ludicrous is it, Goofey’s way of getting money out of you, one way or another however.
When you point out that E.P.A. considers this a violation of improper use of these chemicals that can get in to surface or ground water which is a federal violation, their answer is this is your problem not ours.
Danny:
1. You wrote: And it would be nice if the city government would focus on services rather than using the city as a Monopoly board. Perfect! Just perfect! "Using the city as a Monopoly board." Still chuckling, and right on the money.
2. You wrote I'm still appalled that the river district was confiscated by the government..... While the River Project has, god knows, enough problems, the land there was not "confiscated by the government." Much of it is privately owned, still [in fact, owners are complaining that given the city's footdragging on the development plan, they have been unable to sell], and even where eminent domain proceedings are involved, there is compensation. So however bungled the operation may have been, it the land in the River Project area was not "confiscated by the government."
There was a story in the SL Trib just a few days ago about a family whose land, or part of it, was taken via eminent domain process for the Legacy Highway. The state offered the owners 1.9 million, which the owner's assessor said was more than three million too low. He put the land as worth 4.3 million. The owners went to court. This week, they won. The state has to pay them I think 5.5 million for the land, which included over a million dollars in interest covering the period from when the land was taken to the court's decision.
Eminent domain is a forced taking, but there is compensation, and it is not confiscation. The Trib story ---Family wins $5.5m jury award in Legacy Parkway dispute --- is well worth reading.
Here checking things out. Very exciting. My understanding is that your Mayor is a dynamo. At least that's how the story goes in Portland.
I'm in town right now working on some other projects and observing the city's activities at the outdoor retailer show. We do an extensive review of the areas that we invest in. Observing the dialogue here is a small part of it, and I'm just getting oriented.
In a discussion yesterday, your Mayor reported a significant reduction in crime over his tenure in office. You all seem to have a different opinion. Which is true?
Is this a safe place to invest? Have the companies that have come made a positive difference?
After reviewing a bit more, it seams that Mr./Mrs.? Rudizink is the coordinator of this site. Correct? Is there a way for me to meet Mr./Mrs.? Rudizink? I'd also like to meet Mr./Mrs. Curmudgeon. I'm trying to learn, and clearly, I've yet to meet the key players here. My interactions thus far have been with your Mayor and some business people in Ogden. While I like what I hear from them, it certainly does not jive with what is going on in here. The activities that I see going on in the city appear to be very impressive, but we all know that sometimes appearances can be deceiving. Things all look good though, even with a bit of digging on my part. You all seem to be digging deeper though.
Checking:
You might want to poke around here as well. It's the SmartGrowthOgden website.
Our "mayor" is a "dynamo"? If Checking Things Out has only met Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey and some "business people," likely moron sycophants like THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE, then he/she has his/her head up his/her ass when it comes to OTown. Little Matty is a criminal and will be dealt back to Harrisville in September. You're on the wrong goddamn horse, sir/madame. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
I'd like to chime in on the crime debate, specifically with respect to comments by sharon and just a cop.
Gang members (and I won't mention Ogden's specific, well-organized gangs here) are more tightly knit and disciplined than you think. Nearly all of the VIOLENCE that occurs is between rival gang members or intrafratracide. They don't typically stick up the seven-eleven. Thier business is lucrative: the trafficking of drugs. It is lucrative because of the demand for coke, heroin, marijuana, meth, x, and several other drugs. Our government plays just enough of a role to keep the (black) market prices for these drugs high enough to make the trade very, very lucrative. The gang leaders have little incentive to disrupt thier market opportunity with random violence perpetrated on local merchants and citizens who are thier CUSTOMERS.
A great deal more violence comes from the drug ADDICTS, and former addicts whose lives are in desperate ruins.
Meth is almost a separate phenomenon, because the addicts often become cooks, and vice-versa. This gets beyond the control of the gangs, who will often enforce the production and distribution within thier "turf". Meth is, as we all know now, extremely addictive and leads to very irrational behaviour and risk-taking. I dare say that there is a great deal more crime committed in Ogden by meth addicts who are not affiliated with gangs than by the gangs themselves.
Correct me if I'm wrong please, Mr. Just a Cop. Why are we not doubling up our efforts against meth and meth addicts?
Curm,
1. The Monopoly Board reference was Rudi's.
2. You're right, what the city did to the river property owners was a "taking," not a "confiscation," but given the property owners cannot sell their property, and can do little other than wait for years for the city to "take" their property, I don't see a material difference.
"Checking things out,"
I suggest that if you are unsure as to what the public view of they mayor is, that you should wait until after the election this fall. For more information on the mayor, visit his parody blog. Click here.
Note that while that blog is satire, the reason it works is because there is a lot of truth to it.
Regarding Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's "River Project":
I know of at least one business owner who was told, two years ago, to sell his operation and move it in order for Little Matty's company (Ogden City) to purchase the parcel to make way for the world's first high-adventure recreation Whack-A-Mole game.
The businessman did Scott "Gimme' back my porn!" Brown's bidding, expending considerable time and money in the process.
When he asked Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's company to make the transaction, he was told: "We don't have any money."
The matter is headed toward litigation, and there are numerous similar occurences.
Also, when Checking Things Out met Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, did the teeny Csmoker parade Wayne Peterson and his famed Squirrel Patrol in front of him/her? Did Lying Little Matty tell that his only job for the past two years has been to denigrate and degrade the very municipality he is supposed to govern -- to the point of saying our community is "dying" -- and offer as the solution to all our problems a golden URBAN GONDOLA that goes exactly nowhere, ostensibly to a university that does not want it? Did Weensy Matty say that he spent his entire working weeks for months touting the idea that Wayne was going to build a castle in the hills above our OTown -- without roads -- and that its attending sewage would be transported via shit orbs underneath GONDOLA cars? Did Little Matty say he spent two years devaluing our public property in order to convey it to the famed Squirrel Patrol at less than pennies on the dollar in order to construct a gated vacation villa community, which our infrastructure couldn't possibly support? Did Lying Little Matty tell Mr./Mrs. Checking Things Out that he routinely referenced this childish "vision" as being derived from God? Did Lying Little Matty tell him/her that there would be paragliding and extreme Whack-A-Mole-ing available at this fairy-tale castle, and that one-tenth of one-percent of the outdoor recreation industry would ride the URBAN GONDOLA to get to these outstanding attractions that were "on the books" to be constructed last spring? Did Lying Little Matty boast about attracting a bunch of asshold ski clothing idiots to town to leverage their corporate identities in pursuit of this madness, all the while threatening, cajoling, defaming and defrauding their opponents? Did Lying Little Matty tell you how he duped Gondola Boy Mike Dowse (jackass!) of Amer into thinking this was a good idea, even though it was never feasible? Did Lying Little Matty tell you he has a penchant for tailing police officers' wives who drive vehicles cloaked in protected speech statements that criticize Teeny-Weeny Matty's policies? Did Matty tell him/her that he has a complete disregard and utter disdain for his constituency? Did Lying Little Matty say he has to ask Curt THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE if it's OK to go potty? And please, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon, spare me the lecture about silly name-callers like me making rash statements about the election. Oust Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
checking things out-
Leave your name and phone number and I will talk to you directly on what is going on in Ogden that has the FBI, the IRS, the Utah State Auditor and other agencies looking at Ogden's government through a microscope.
You are being given the tourist's version of Ogden if you are talking to Matt Godfrey.
Thanx, Just a Cop, Jason, and Native for telling it like it is!
You are so right about Matt: He did denigrate Ogden..."a dying town...business has fled"...and of course, he turned his venomous tongue to the ones of us who have tried to save our beautiful open space!
Just a Cop...I'm in Hansen's corner too. He has the know-how, experience, and the heart to lead our city to a stable economy. He won't be bribing every joe from out of state with our tax dollars. BTW...why aren't the local bankers grousing about Matt's handouts? He should be walking so called entreprenuers TO the the bank so these joes can get their own loans!
Neil will see to the stability of our aging infrastructure. He's already made a call on homeowners whose backyards are swamplands from Matt's wretched repair of County Hills Drive! (With our snow removal money, remember?)
Neil has a good working relationship with the state legislature. With Neil we'll have a hard-working mayor...a real servant of the people, and we will not be subjected to mean-spiritedness, massive ego, legacy seeking, and stupid costly "visions!".
On a personal note, I want to thank those who sent me their good wishes.
sharon
Danny:
On The Mayor treating Ogden as a Monopoly Board being Rudi's quip: then congrats to Rudi. It's just damn near perfect.
On River Project and confiscation:
All I challenged was characterizing what happened as "government confiscation" of the property. Confiscation, in normal usage, means taking without compensation of any sort. That did not happen and is not happening now. That the landowners, or some of them at least, in the RDA area have been badly treated by the city I wouldn't contest for a moment. But their property was not confiscated and there is a material difference between that and not being able to sell at the moment [because they can find no buyers until the city completes the necessary rezoning and development plans]. Some in the area have already sold their land, and not only to the city. So, badly treated, yes. Had their land confiscated by Ogden City, no.
Checking things out here-
Sorry, I don't know exactly how to set up a blog name here. Not a big deal. I'm in town only shortly, and I probably won't be on this blog a lot.
Yes, the Mayor did discuss the Gondola with me. Yes, the Mayor did discuss the ski companies with me. In fact, I met a few of their mangers, and they were excited about everything. They seemed to be working closely together on this. It didn't seem to me that the Mayor was saying one thing, and the managers saying something else. They were all together, stopping by the Ogden booth, talking to other company leaders, sharing ideas.
What do you mean "Asshole Ski Company Idiots?" It was my understanding that the residents were excited about the new companies there. I met some people from the goal foundation here. They were very excited.
Also, I've talked with Mike Dowse on a couple of occassions recently. In fact, he introduced me to the city. The reference to him as "Jackass" is an interesting comment. He and some other ski company executives, along with some other Ogden residents and marketing people, all seemed to be very cordial and cooperative.
Clearly there are some disconnects that I am missing. I'll take your advise to visit the smart grow ogden site. Have they been effective in getting things done in the city? My hope is to work along side, and in conjunction with, a plan that is working and is taking shape. Do you think the Mayor's vision will continue or have a future? Do you think he's going to be voted out of office? If he does get voted out of office, what changes do you see happening? Will the outdoor recreation plan collapse? Is it an upopular plan? Are the companies that are there disliked?
checking things out:
If you are still in town on August 21st come to our Ogden town meeting about the handouts Mayor Godfrey wants to give to the new owners of the Windsor Hotel - around $300,000.00 worth -
He kicked the previous owner out even though that owner was just about to get his financing in place to do his remodel.
Now Godfrey's friend, Scott Brown and two other partners are going to get a $300,000.00 handout from us dumb taxpayers if Godfrey gets the City Council to vote his way.
Warning: better not consider Ogden unless you manage to get on the Mayor's favorites list first - and even then you can't trust him to follow through.
The other thing - he prefers that persons locating in Ogden must be of the predominant religious faith - white - non-beer or alcohol drinkers, etc. etc. etc.
If he doesn't like you, he will convince the present owner of a property that you may want to buy that the property should not be sold to you. He has a Chicago Boss
Daley complex that you better know about before you pull up stakes to come to his town.
Scott Brown, that I just mentioned, used to be on the Ogden City payroll. He was the financial mastermind for Godfrey in Ogden's RDA dealing with property owners and taxpayers.
Brown was caught with porn on his Ogden City computer which the Mayor knew all about but had done nothing about. Brown left City employment precipitously after that hit the papers.
Now Brown has surfaced again wanting the City to okay zoning for him to put in his Two-Bit Condos and subsidize the Windsor Hotel makeover.
I think this should give you an inkling of what the Mayor of Ogden is partially about. The rest of the story will be put on hold until I talk to you myself.
Checking things out..
I just noticed the request for my contact information.
I'd prefer not to post it here as I would like to maintain some discretion with regard to who I am and what my interests are.
I have employees and competitors. It is important that I disclose my plans in a very deliberate way.
I'm sure that you can understand this. Is there any reason why Rudizink and Curmudgeon cannot share their identities here? If I can get an e-mail address for you to send your information to, is that possible? I'd prefer to learn a bit more about you before I disclose who I am? I am not an activist or a politician. I am a businessman. I have private interests. This place seems to be populated with people who take an active role in the community. Is it possible to identify at least one or two of you so that I can do my due diligence and then initiate a meeting?
checking things out ----
You say you talked to Mayor Godfrey about his gondola dream.
I am curious, did he say the gondola is still on the drawing board?
He announced in a news release within the last 10 days that he has changed his mind and that the gondola is a "no go" so I would like to know what you were told.
Checking things out -
Talk to the current candidate for Mayor, State Rep. Neil Hansen, who worked for Ogden for 22 years.
I will tell him to give you my name and phone number so that you can contact me.
He can speak to my credibility.
Welcome to Weber County Forum, Checking It Out.
You'll find a variety of opinions here. As for me, I've had some contact with Mike Dowse; and I think he's A-OK.
While you're doing your due diligence BTW, it might not hurt to speak with Michael Moyal, who posted an article here in March, re his troubles dealing with Boss Godfrey's administration:
More Evidence of a Small-business Unfriendly Emerald City Administration
In the interim since purchase of his downtown property, Mr. Moyal has expended thousands of dollars in legal fees, trying to get the city to work with him.
I'd be willing to assist you in hooking up with him, and will gladly do so, if you'd like.
Simply send me an email through the contact link at the top of the page; and I'll be sure to discretely pass it on to him.
P.S.: creating a unique "handle" is easy. Just click "Other" in the "Leave your comment" box; and then type in "Checking it Out." Ignore the "Your web page" text box.
Rudizink,
Thank you. I know of Mr. Moyal. In a discussion with a man who is working with the Mayor on the river project, Mr. Moyal's name came up. It is my understanding that Mr. Moyal is working with a man named Lesham to clean up the rivers. I've had a brief interaction with Mr. Lesham, and he seemed very supportive of the Mayor, and the entire project in the city. During the discussion, the Gondola came up. I don't remember it being brought up unfavorably. Are Mr. Moyal and Mr. Lesham working together? My discussions indicated that Mr. Moyal was part of what Mr. Lesham's plans. Mr. Lesham was part of the Mayor's plans. I'll check in with Mr. Moyal. From what I currently know, they seem to be collaborating very closely and in a very congenial way.
Yes, the Gondola was brought up, and the concept looked to me to be very exciting. The Mayor said that they still have work to do, but conversations with Chris Peterson make the project sound very possible. Again, Mr. Peterson seemed to be very close to your Mayor.
Dowse, Lesham, Moyal, and a man named Peddie all know one another very well it seems, and they all operate together. They all reference one another in converstions and refer me to one another for information.
I was sent here by a man named Curt Geiger. I asked him what places I could go to get familiarity with the landscape of the city. So... Here I am.
Certainly there is some hostility here. What is the deal. Mr. Geiger was very supportive of what was happening in the city. I'm wondering why he referenced this site. He's very much a salesman. Why would a sales type person want me to come here?
Checking Things Out,
Again I would say wait until after the election to get a feel for Ogden residents' view of the mayor. He is widely hated by those who know him best. As far as the mayor's close circle of friends whom he has given many favors, it appears you have met them too.
Recall Boss Tweed of Tammany Hall fame was also very well thought of by his corrupt associates.
Ogden is a nice place, but for the rats that Godfrey has filled City Hall with. Watch the election results and you will see a change for the better in Ogden. In the meantime, try not to be so naive.
And I want to emphasize this blog is not all bomb throwers and name callers, although some of us try to use occasional humor to get people to read us. Many of us are very intelligent, and therefore we are eagerly awaiting the corrupt "Godfrey Ring" being removed from office. Remember, it took years for the "Tweed Ring" to come to justice. In Godfrey's case, his patent contempt for the public will do him in. Surely you have felt how much he despises Ogden residents, generally.
On, and say hi to Gadi for me. I guess his California indictments haven't been to trial yet. He is the first, but he will not be the last.
Checking Things Out:
Yeah, there is much hostility regarding Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey and his "vision," you jagoff. You are a poseur and a plant. If THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE sent you to this site, it was purposefully done so you could read clowns like me call you names and mock your silly, eighth-grade enthusiasm for THE GONDOLA, which any thinking 13-year-old could conclude is idiotic. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE is trying to show you "the opposition," and how "naysayers" like me shite upon anything to do with Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey. And I do, with impunity, and screw you. These "people" you reference and say you've met are the root cause of the community discord we've experienced and one of the reasons why Little Matty is out; they have no PR skills, they think like children, and they suck. Much like you, I suspect. And Gondola Boy Mike Dowse is a jackass because if he drove the "proposed" GONDOLA route and thinks it's a good idea, well, the moniker fits. Go have an onion roll with the Geigers, because everyone you've met and everything you've heard is bullshit. In fact, get on a plane. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
And another thing, Checking Things Bullshit Poseur:
Your affecting of the lingo is really quite transparent; if you want to do a good job of being a Geigerian Internet agent of subterfuge, forget words like "salesman" in reference to the SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE. Forget vague assertions that Wayne "Chris" Peterson "seems" very close to our mayor, Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey; you know damn good and well they potentially had a possible gay love affair in Europe. Sheesh.
Checking Things Out:
I gave Mike Moyal a call to bounce your comments off him.
He assures me that he does not hang out with the crowd you have been associating him with in your blog post.
I think you are a bullsh---er of the first order.
If Curt Geiger invited you to town we know that you are the one definitely hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Sorry I wasted my time on you.
Checking:
If your request is legit, you should scan down several threads here, and note that the Mayor [under pressure of the coming election] has announced that the plan to sell the city's largest park to Mr. Peterson for a real estate development, from which Mr. Peterson would make enough to build his gondola from WSU to Malan's Basin and to develop Malan's basin is now "off the table." Polling apparently made it very plain that selling the city's parklands to Peterson for a real estate development plan was widely unpopular and a campaign loser.
And, in the same story, the Mayor conceded that the plan was not feasible from the start. The news story makes interesting reading.
You should also be aware that what is being proposed is not one gondola, but two. One city owned to run four miles plus over flat land from downtown to Weber State U. and include two right-angle turns. The second gondola would run from WSU to the as-yet un-built Malan's Basin resort, for which by the way Mr. Peterson seems to have been unable to find his own financing.
You should also know that no, feasibility studies for the entire project or the key components of it have been done, so far as anyone knows. With the exception of a Wasatch Front Regional Council financed study looking at three competing forms of public transit from downtown to WSU: gondola, street car and bus rapid transit. The study said street car was the option most likely to work, bus rapid transit was also likely to work, and it placed second. The gondola was not recommended at all.
Ms. May:
The Mayor said the plan to sell Mt. Ogden Park golf course to Mr. Peterson is off the table. He did not say that the city-gondola from downtown to WSU is off the table. And according to recent SE stories, he is still trying to get UTA to administer a federal grant to finance another feasibility study for the city-owned gondola... which will not only not go to Snow Basin, it won't go even to Malan's Basin. Just to WSU.
Sources downtown say that Stuart Reid is out making the rounds bragging about all the money he controls...even a whole town in Canada....
He is also trying to make some property owners uncomfortable by throwing the term "eminent domain" around so that they will be frightened into running scared and dumping their property.
The games that god-fearing Mormon Bishops play is sickening.
Seems Mr. Reid wants to literally acquire more of Ogden's dirt.
Checking things Out -
I'm really glad that I visited this site. I must say, I didn't seet his coming. Mr. Rudizink, the ring leader of this place....I don't need to meet you. Mr. Curmudeon, the other player here, I don't think I'll need to meet with you either.
Honestly, I'm a potential investor in Ogden, and I will take your invitation to get on a plane.
You have no idea who I am, and you have treated me very unfairly. It is almost crazy. It's almost like someone has paid you to make the opposition to the Mayor look like lunatics rather than rational opponents.
My next inquiry will be, "who runs this site?" My inclination would be that it is run by the proponents of the Mayor and his plans for the city.
Very interesting place, Ogden. Never seen anything like this. How could anyone have predicted this kind of venemous approach.
Smart Growth Ogden, Neil Hansen, Suzie Van Hooser, Dan Schroeder, Weber County Forum....Its amazing what a few hours with google searches and conversations will reveal.
You call me names, you attack people who have been very civil to me, you call me naive, you tell me to leave. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE REJECTING FROM YOUR CITY.
Rejecting things before you understand them seems to be the play here. Maybe that's why Ogden had the reputation that it hand until recent action by your Mayor.
Mr. Rudizink, I'll find out who you are without meeting.
Change my name from "Checking Things Out" to "Sorry I Came".
I didn't mean to imply that Mr. Moyal hung out with those guys. My comment was simply that Mr. Moyal's plans are part of Mr. Lesham's plans. Mr. Lesham spoke well of Mr. Moyal.
Sorry I came or checking or whoever:
Assuming you are not a poser, a plant from the Godfrey campaign, may I suggest that rather than talk to the people from the Godfrey Ring you call,
OK3Air
Ogden Chrome
Creative Welding
Woodbury Corp.
and ask them how Godfrey does business.
Them come back and I'll give you four more names.
If you ARE legitimately who you claim to be, you will understand that in a city run by a Godfrey Ring of liars (based on EXPERIENCE) that some people may not believe you.
If you are legit, I apologize for any discomfort, but until you talk to someone outside the Godfrey Ring, you will be a babe in the woods.
As far a rejecting you, I did not do so, but I've lived here for years without you. Somehow, I've gotten along.
Sorry about that double, readers, and my anonymous name. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
I AM NOW SCARED OF WHOM I AM REJECTING. ARE YOU BILL GATES?
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
It seems as though I am talking to people outside the Godfrey ring. What a difference it is to talk to people inside the Godfrey ring. All reason and experience points me to the clear answer that it is better to be inside the Godfrey ring than outside it. You're nutz!
Ah, Sorry....
Just for the record, assuming your postings were legit, at no time did I call you names. Nor did I invite you to leave. As for your point about abusive over the top postings here making the opposition to the Mayor's schemes look irrational... well, about that, we could not agree more.
But I suspect your postings were something of a pretense. Can't be absolutely sure, of course, but I doubt anyone who was thinking of bringing a business to Ogden would permit himself to be driven off by some nasty postings on a single blog. Still, without being sure, I and some others answered your questions civilly and at some length. Which is how I keep trying, with only mixed success, to convince everyone here is how all posts on WCF should be treated.
OK, clown, but your use of "nutz" negates any credibility you may have had in pulling a Bob Geigerian "obstructionist" rant, in which you claim to be a polite, non-Gondola-partisan "investor" who was referred to WCForum by Curt THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE Geiger, and all you found was incivility and intolerance. God, are you Dustin Chapman? Your mangled syntax is familiar. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE. Also, THE GONDOLA, as told by the governor and the Utah State Legislature, is THE DUMBEST GODDAMN THING IN THE HISTORY OF UTAH; get over it. It ain't gonna happen.
I called him names, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon, and I told him to get on a plane. This poseur Squirrel Patroller knows damn good and well that invoking my name negates his argument, because I am a known loony and name-caller. To write "somewhat of a pretense" is laughable; you know this clown's a joke. THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
Good minds think alike.
Thank You
That last post was for you Sharon.
Thank You
Sorry I Came or whoever,
Why not call
OK3Air
Ogden Chrome
Creative Welding
Woodbury Corp.
Monday morning if you are what you say you are?
Then you will understand why we look forward to a change to our city. Why be so negative when I merely suggest you call business people outside the Godfrey Ring?
But I have to admit, you are sounding more and more like Bob Geiger all the time. He has been known to pose in many cases. He thinks he's the pink panther.
And the word "dynamo." C'mon! THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
Dear Anonymous
I just wonder if you might be or perhaps associated with or even might be our very own little Mayor the one and only, Boss Hogg Mathew Godfrey. I just wonder if all those people on this blogs that claim they are just in town to make an investment. My question is; who guided you to this web site and after seeing this web site are you so clueless to think that people who really care about this city, especially long life residents that are tax payers and voters. Would be this mean and vindictive is the little boy wonder was very honest in his deals with his fellow man? Either you are naive or stupid or just don’t get it.
Oh by the way. Mathew Godfrey I have a “Freak in Genius” Idea! Why not log on to this blogs as President G.W. Bush and that way all of your loyal republicans, Will think that this is the real McCoy. And also have Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity. Why not do a cleaver radio spot for you and why we need to continue to believe all the lies so that you can be more freaking rich. With all of your L.L.C. that you have started up since you became Mayor of Ogden I mean why do you sit on 22 boards since you became Mayor as the Standard Examiner have quoted you?
It's funny how y'all got so distracted and taken by that Geiger-poser. How could you fall for that? Just put yourselves in the shoes of an outside investor and imagine how you would conduct yourselves. You embarrass me.
It's also appearant to me that y'all don't give a flying f*** about gang violence or meth addicts breaking into your neighbors homes for tweek. As long as it's happening "down there". It makes headlines, but let's just agree that we don't care as long as they keep amongst themselves.
All that matters is property values, open space, municipal debt, taxes, and land planning. No one really cares about gangs. Godfrey is just worse. That's all. Worse.
Native:
Well, since several people here have in the past attributed authorship to various posts... and been wrong... seems to me the safest thing to do is treat any post as legit until the poster proves to be otherwise. Hurts nothing to presume such posts are legit, provides opportunities to yet again recount the problems of Hizzonah's gondola/gondola park sales obsession. Which is always a good thing, particular should any new readers not familiar with the history wander in.
As a city employee I am very pleased to see Neil Hansen billboards going up all over the city. It would be nice to have a mayor who actually appreciates the dedicated city employees of Ogden. I am telling all of my friends and family who live in Ogden to please PLEASE vote Godfrey out of office. Another 4 years of him will certainly drive the city into the ground. We are already in debt so far we may never be able to get out.
He truly does not care about the employees. I am sure he will be quick to point out the raises he gave all employees this year. Don't think for a second that nearly every employee is holding their breath to see what happens next July 1 (if he is re-elected). Most anticipate no raises at all. I personally expect him to say something like "hey, there is no money. We spent it all on raises last year. And by the way, the city is going to up the insurance to boot." Those raises he gave were merely "hush money" so that he can say "see, I don't have any issues with any of the city employees. We did not have any negotiation issues at all like last year (vangate). All is good and wonderful for my beloved employees". BULLS*#T.
In Godfrey's first 4 years he held annual employee/mayor meetings in large groups. Kind of a state of the city address for the employees. When he found out that the employees actually have a brain and did question his actions at these meetings, he put an end to the meetings all together. There have not been any meetings since.
http://www.standard.net/ASP/OgdenGangs.html
I'm having a difficult time swalowing Sorry I Came and his comments. They sound too too familiar.
IF he's legit...why not reveal himself? Then the really smart folks on here can meet him, and if he doesn't like what he learns about our fair city, he can take his 'business' elsewhere...no worse for the endeavor!
Did y'all catch Jim Hutchens good letter in the SE today?
Will Patterson and Godfrey tell the truth? Hmmmm???
Being a Total Ass here-
Man, you people are brutal! Ask Curt Geiger why he came here.
Sincerely,
Curt Geiger
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
I'm qite puzzled, would someone please explain to me just what high adventure recreation means, specifically as it may pertain to Ogden, Utah.
Would it be walking the length of Monroe Blvd. after 11 pm? Would it be tubing the Ogden River from July thru August, or canoeing the gentle Weber River from Riverdale to the nw city limits? Just what is implied with this bogus label that so many idiots seem to be enamored with?
Just like the emperor's lack of clothing, can't anyone see what a joke this supposed vision was?
Granted walking Monroe that late could lead to quite an adventure, some would call you crazy, and I dare anyone that doesn't acknowlege the crime and gang problem in our city, to do just that. Better yet try Adams and Jefferson.
The goal of all our elected representatives should be safety, at all times of the day, 24/7 on Ogden City streets. Not gondolas and city funded development.
Every candidate for any office should attend Jessie's meeting Monday, and participate to the fullest.
Lying little matty's diversionery vision turned into a very bad acid trip, the solution being "get off the bus". His negligence of his main job functions, has made things incredibly worse. The judgement, lack of maturity and ethics displayed by his activity and priorities have had a devastating effect on this comunity.
Only an insane person or criminal could be compelled to vote for 4 more years of his lack of leadership.
Being a Total Ass Here-
You people don't know what you're missing; I was going to invest $500 million in high-adventure Whack-A-Mole games until your name-callers drove me out! I'd better change my name to Csmoker Geiger (Sr.) who got caught being a total ass, pretending. Ask Curt Geiger why he thinks he's a total ass.
Sincerely,
Curt Geiger
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.
Gee, do you think "Sorry I Came" is non-too-carefully-crafted fiction. The whole script sounds right out of the Leave It to Beaver era. So squeaky predictable and measured to somehow twist some table and reveal that us "naysayers" are still the problem. How trite, fool. You don't have me convinced for minute.
I am most thankful that I stumbled on to this site the other day.
I was just about ready to write the check to build a One Hundred Million Dollar Movie Studio in Ogden, when I was virtually saved by accidentally coming across this web site.
The mayor and his wonderful circle of far sighted managers and friends, particularly Mr. Geiger and his son, had me convinced that all was well in Ogden and that their dream of a new and shiny city at the bottom of the gondola would be a sure bet winner for our mutual dream of Hollywood East in Ogden.
We were scheduled to have a ribbon cutting event on Washington Blvd across the street from the new bowling alley and arcade. All of the major Hollywood stars were going to be there. Paris and Nichole, David Hallelbladder and Pam Anderson had committed and even Gary Coleman was willing to come up from Provo for the gala event. Like I said, all of the top tier stars of Hollywood were excited to be coming to the town who's potential will now never be reached because I am now not coming.
But when I saw this blog and all of the incredible naysaying that goes on here I changed my mind.
You people that inhabit this dark negative space have ruined it completely for me. I no longer feel that Ogden is worthy of my magnificients and largess. I am going to take my One Hundred Million Dollars in cash and invest it somewhere else. Some place that will appreciate my wonderfullness and your mayor's genius.
It is truly sad that two or three malcontents like Bill C, Jason and Rudi can completely destroy a city that would actually be important if I were to spend my One Hundred Million dollars there on a new movie studio that would be called Hollywood East at Ogden.
You have only yourselves to blame for depriving all the people of your town such an incredible opportunity.
Ohmygosh! Walter Mitty..... A movie studio in Ogden?
This is my dream come true! I have so much talent, everyone says so.
You wouldn't have to go back to Hollywood to find a major star, bcause L'il Lola is HERE!
Oh, please, please, please try to contact me..you'll be glad you did.
love, L'il Lola
Thanks for the compliment Walt, you know we convinced our lying little mayor that he ought to atleast examine the feasability of this whole deal, and guess what he found out, it was never really feasable at all.
Kinda like your assertion that you'd just blindly invest 100 bucks, not millions, in a gondola crazed town with a bowling alley for a tourist anchor.
What pray tell were going to film? Transvestites in Chinese manufactured ill fitting non functional supossed ski attire bearing French labels? My understanding was they have their own personal producer, videographer,and rather enjoy making their promotional stuff in house. They are said to be sorta kinky and have a taste for the bizarre. Sometimes our mayor joins in, dressed as a boy scout, he helps the transvestites board a gondola paying carefull attention not to let their potatoes,or other appendages, get stuck in the door.
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