Short report on City Council Open House, Wednesday, 19 March 08
By Dan S.
No time for a full report, but here are a few things I learned at last night's open house...
About 2/3 of the $2 million "golf course debt" consists of interest that the accountants didn't even keep on the books until a couple of years ago, when they went back and retroactively figured out what the interest accumulated over the many preceding years should have been. The claim is that the city's auditors told them to do that, but I'll bet the auditors did not tell them that this interest had to be added onto the golf course debt, rather than somewhere else in the city's balance sheet.
Consequently, the new interest on the debt that the golf course is supposed to pay each year has risen dramatically. In 2004 the new interest was less than $20,000, while in 2007 it was just over $100,000. That's partly because of the compounded interest, and partly (apparently) because the interest rate has increased. If the debt could be somehow paid off or forgiven, the annual golf course deficit would immediately drop to a little under $200,000.
The name(s) of the professional golf course designer(s) that the city has consulted is/are a secret. However, the conceptual drawing of a redesigned course that was on display showed the initials "J.G." Apparently this person is unwilling to put his/her name on the design at this time. The claim was that this is because the work was done pro bono, and to use the designer's name, the city would have to pay a fee.
The $6 million cost of such a redesign does not include relocating the clubhouse or paying off the existing $2 million debt. So it seems to me that implementing this option would actually require bonding for about $10 million.
J.G.'s conceptual design shows an unlabeled dashed line along the approximate alignment of the previously proposed Malan's Basin gondola.
Those in attendance at the event included Mayor Godfrey, council members Jeske, Stephens, and Gochnour, John Patterson, George Benford, John Arrington, Todd Brenkman, and other golf course personnel, as well as Curt and Bob Geiger and Gadi Leshem. From where they were standing and what I heard them say, the Geigers and Leshem seemed most interested in the redesign option.
Editor's Addendum: Ace Reporter Schwebke also provides a writeup on last night's open house event, in this morning's Standard-Examiner.
Although we've already had some discussion of last night's open house in yesterday's article comment section, we're posting a new article for the sake of continuity, and to allow those readers who haven't yet commented to offer their impressions of last night's event -- or alternatively -- to blow off a little pent-up steam.
Have at it, gentle readers.
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19 comments:
Presumably the public input the mayor has received, as well as his own ideas, will serve as input to the citizens' committee that will work this issue. Their work will then be input to the city council so the council can decide, and subsequently inform the administration what the new approach, if any, will be.
Best quote from Mr. Schwebke's story: the 80 year old woman who plays Mt. Ogden twice a week who said "Those guys who say it's too hard are wusses."
Reminded me of the MOGC rep at the work session... Mr. Brenkman?... who was asked if many women play the course. He said yes, and that the women who play there like the course a lot. He was asked why that was so, since the course is reputed to be so hard. He looked a little sheepish and then said that the women didn't drive the ball as far as the men, but they generally put the ball where they wanted it to go, while male golfers, going for distance, often had the ball go where they didn't want it to go. The women, he said, were generally more accurate with their shots.
He did not quite say that the women played the course smarter than the men, trading a little distance for more accuracy and control. But he came damn close....
Another thing I noticed on the conceptual redesign plan was that the new clubhouse wouldn't be any bigger than the old one, and the new parking lot next to it would be significantly smaller than the existing parking lot. The reason is obvious: The topography is much steeper at the proposed new location, and there just isn't room for too big a parking lot. But wouldn't it be ironic if the taxpayers cough up $10 million to bond for a redesigned golf course and relocated clubhouse, and then the course loses even more money because the lot fills up on weekends and golfers avoid it because of the shortage of parking.
(Of course, they could always park downtown and ride the gondola, I suppose.)
Also, the redesign would obliterate a good-sized chunk of the current Mt. Ogden exercise trail, from the 36th Street trailhead up into the mouth of Strong's Canyon.
Fire the stupid manager of this ship, which is Godfrey.
When a team does poorly do they not fire the couches.
Nothing new here. Any time the little shit calls for public input, it's time to bring out the vaseline. One minute with me and Godfrey in a dark alley, and Ogden will be looking forward to brighter times.
"Those guys who say it's too hard are wusses."
Great quote, and the same could be said for so-called "High Adventure visionaries" who spend millions of dollars on a rec center with features like arcades, bowling alleys, bumper cars and dayglo miniature golf.
That's right, woooooooooses!
Bill C. seems to be lying pretty low on this subject. Watch out, knowing him he is working on the nuclear option! In the case of Godfrey and the golf course I am hoping that will mean an honest, complete and comprehensible expose of all the lies the twerp has told us on the golf course and the evolving deal that got us where we are.
Interesting to hear that the Geigers are in the middle of all of this also. With that news it just confirms that the mayor and they are cooking up some nefarious scheme behind the citizen's backs.
They remind me of the keystone cops with all their blatant dishonest and amateur maneuvers.
This whole fiasco has to be giving Ogden a huge black eye in the rest of the world.
The idea of putting interest on the books without proof of a debt is ridiculous.
My understanding is that no one can find a legal document stating the the golf course owed anything prior to this flap.
This is just one more of Mayor Godfrey's little schemes to get rid of the golf course.
Seems like the new clubhouse location would make it a nice Gondola station. That way Hizzoner could get a gondola station "at no cost." What a coincidence.
One of the conditions to move the clubhouse would be to widen 36th ST from Washington to Harrison. Without widening the street a new clubhouse is a no go. More advertising is required, 30th ST is a major east - west street, easy to access the golf course.
One of the reasons given for moving the club house was that the current location was too hard to find. Give me a break.
Has anyone ever tried to find Bountiful Ridge Golf Course or Valley View? Both of these courses are much harder to find than Mt. Ogden. Or what about the Jack Nicolas course in Park City, that ones a night mare and yet people seem to find it.
Lets see course directions; take Harrison to 30th Street, turn East to the stop sign. Then turn right at the stop sign and follow the street straight until you come to a Y in the road. Take the left at the Y until you see the golf course (one block). Club house to your left.
This isn't about difficulty in finding the course, it's about the mayor wanting to move the club house to fit into his master plan.
Another point, Mt. Ogden pays 200,000 per year for rental of golf carts from the city. Most golf course make money on their golf carts. We pay, it doesn't maker sense. He has done everything to make this golf course look like it's loosing money.
Ogden Resident
From 32nd and Harrison, turn east and go to the end, turn left and go to the first place you can turn right, proceed to club house.
I agree, this "too hard to find" bull shit is just that. It is another off the wall bush league lie by the Little Lord in his attempt to diminish the golf course so he can sell it on the cheap to his big talking pal.
Look up absolute liar and you will see the little punk's picture.
Ozboy
I tried your directions and it was amazingly easy to find the illusive club house! In fact once you turn onto Taylor from 32nd street the club house is in plain view for the last quarter mile!
The real mystery to me is why is our Mayor lying to us over this? Why isn't he promoting this beautiful city asset instead of tearing it down every chance he gets?
Marv and Ozboy
I tried it myself today. It is rather easy to find isn't it! I too wonder what the Mayor's motive is in all of this.
Marv & Winston
The Little Lord's motive is rather obvious. The more negative the opinion of the citizens of Ogden toward the Course, the easier it will be for him to realize his long time goal of selling the place to his crony Peterson for a cheap price.
And Marv, lying appears to be Godfrey's true nature. It seems like he will lie even when the truth is better for his purpose. I believe it is a result of his sociopathic personality. If you look up sociopath or narcissist, you might be amazed at the defining characteristics of those two closely associatated disorders that match him.
Folks, all of us are more or less familiar with the street layout of Ogden. If you don't know the layout and you're coming in on I-15,finding MOGC can get a little complex. Ditto coming in via 89 from the South. Improving the signage would help those who do not know their way around town to find it easily. I believe the Pro there who says they get cell phone calls from out of towners who got lost in Ogden trying to find the place. And 36th Street access to the club house would be easier [fewer turns on residential streets]. Easy enough and making enough of a difference to justify moving the club house? I doubt it. The proximity to WSU makes more sense than easy of access for out of towners as a reason to relocate. And even that's not compelling.
Not necessary, seems to me, to try to knock the stuffing out of every claim the administration makes just because the administration makes it. A route to the club house requiring fewer turns on residential streets would, by definition, be easier for out of towners to follow. There is enough bilge in the Administration's prattling on about MOGC that there little point, seems to me, going to lengths to try to undercut, somehow, every thing it says.
Curmudgeon
I put forth that the vast majority of what spills from the Little Lord's mouth is somehow corrupt and dishonest.
In this day of GPS, google earth, etc, I think it would take a complete idiot to not be able to find the golf course. For hells sake it is next to the mountain at the top of 32nd Street, how hard can that be!
Put some damn signs up, put a little map on the city web site and any printed pamphlets the city makes up. This is not orbital mechanics were talking about here.
This biz about the place being hard to find is just more disingenuous Godfrey bull shit meant to diminish the course in the public's mind so he can off it to his crony Peterson for a fraction of its value. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well now Ozboy I think you greatly overestimate the intelligence of these cow pasture pool players. I mean how many brains does it take for a person to spend lots of time and money to wander around wacking a little ball with a stick until it falls in a hole? I'm not surprised at all that these people have a hard time following simple directions like you laid out above.
Well, Oz, folks do get lost, apparently. Not herds of them. But some. And if you want to dismiss them as too dumb to be driving, fine. Whatever floats your boat. But the other word for those occasional lost sheep, from MOGC's POV is "customers." Making it easier for customers to find your place of business seems to be just good economics to me. The MOGC pro, at Tuesday's meeting, didn't go along with the Mayor's scoffing when someone suggested that better signage would help. [Such was one of the goals endorsed in the Mt. Ogden Community Plan recently adopted.] He took the suggestion seriously, said it would help, but that it absolutely would not bring in tons of new golfers. It would just make it a little easier for out of towners playing the course for the first time to find the place.And that's a good thing, he thought. So do I.
Moving the club house to the top of 36th Street would also make it slightly easier for first time out of town customers to navigate to the course. Slightly. That is not a reason that justifies millions of investment to move the club house there. But it would make it marginally easier for out of towners to find. That's all. Fighting over that [seems to me] self-evident fact hardly seems worth it. That's all.
As for GPS devices... well, Oz. Not all folks have them in their cars. I don't. And I can't imagine ever shelling out for one either. Maybe for people who have absolutely zero sense of direction... and there are such people. Probably some of them are golfers too.
In any case, this "move the club house to 36th Street" is just a stalking horse I think for the Mayor to bring back his obsession, The Gondola/Gondola plan. You know, the plan he barely mentioned during the campaign. That one. It's coming, sure as shootin'. And just think how easy it will be for folks to find the Base Station Club House at 36th Street.... just tell them to follow the gondola cables from downtown. Can't miss.
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