We don't call him Curmudgeon for nuttin'
By Curmudgeon
Our elected Republican officials at... work? Interesting article by reporter Loretta Park in this morning's Standard-Examiner. It reports that the months-long battle between Davis and Weber Counties and UTA about whether those counties should add-back the .05% [that five-one hundredths of a percent, not five percent] sales tax on "non-prepared food items" to support UTA is over.
Late in the session, last day in fact, Sen. Bramble [R-Provo] snuck a provision adding the tax back in Weber and Davis Counties into a bill dealing with funding for airports. That Sen. Bramble's rider had nothing whatever to do with airport funding bothered him not at all. That the Weber County Commission was not convinced that UTA needed the added back taxes from their county bothered Sen. Bramble not at all either. That adding back the tax short-circuited months of negotiations between the Weber County Commissioners and UTA about UTA funding needs from those counties bothered Bramble, again, not at all. But then, sneaking riders into unrelated bills in the final hours of a session has become the trade mark of our the Republican leadership in the State Legislature. It's what they do.
What is really astonishing in the reaction to all this from Weber County [Republican] Commissioner Jan Zogmaister. Here it is:
"It was lumped into the bill with a lot of other things," said Weber County Commissioner Jan Zogmaister. County officials were not included in the discussions between legislators and UTA, Zogmaister said. "We were kept out of the loop, and that's fine" she said. [boldface emphasis mine --Curm.]
Huh? The County Commissioners, Zogmaister included, decided not to reimpose the tax. They were convinced UTA did not need the money because of increasing other taxes allocated to UTA. Months of fact finding, negotiation, testimony, discussion [all on the public's dime]. Finally the wingnut Troika [Bramble, Curtis, Buttars] slip a rider into a final moments unrelated bill, take the tax decision out of the Weber County Commission's hands, rendering all that work, meeting, voting, discussing, fact finding by the Commission pointless, and it was all done by the legislators without so much as a by-your-leave to the County Commissioners, and that's just fine with Zogmaister? The County Commissioners were completely cut out of the loop on whether to impose a county sales tax they didn't think was needed, and it's just fine with Zogmaister?
Somebody remind me, what exactly are we paying her for? Perhaps she could tell us what other Weber County Commission responsibilities she'd be happy to have the legislature take over for her? Oh, and of course what cut in her pay she thinks should accompany the further reduction in her responsibilities as a County Commissioner. Don't hold your breath waiting.
The Weber County Commission has three members. All are Republicans. That is not healthy for the County. One of them ... alas not the "sure I'd like the legislature to run the County instead of us" Zogmaister... is up for re-election. It would be wise of the voters to replace him with the Democratic candidate. It is not healthy for any elected body to have members from only one political party on it. [And yes, I'd say the same thing if the Commission was composed of three Democrats and no Republicans.] You always want at least one member of such bodies willing to ask questions the other two would rather not have asked.
The Weber County Commission completely "cut out of the loop" on this County sales tax decision, and "that's fine" says Zogmaister?
Our Republican elected leaders at work. Amazing... just amazing.
And what say our gentle readers about all this?
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24 comments:
Here's my take, Curm: All Weber County citizens should immediately go to this site... and vote for Jan Zogmaister!
;-)
No one deplores the Republican hegemony in Weber County more than I, but I'm glad that UTA is no longer threatening to cut the FrontRunner service to Weber County before it even opens.
The expanded UTA services to Weber County are a victory even for the overwhelming majority of citizens who oppose it and will never use it. You will breathe easier with every car not on the roads.
I think that it is time to take Jan Zoo miseter out of the commission and that would be ok with me to. So how soon can we have that happen.
Seriously! I wonder what the hell we pay the commissioners for anyway! I do not see them doing a damn thing to help the county. On any important issue, they pass the blame and still collect a paycheck.
Nice points, Curm. We, the citizens of Ogden City and Weber County (and Utah), ultimately get screwed over by everybody (in this case: UTA, county commissioners, and the Legislature). Hey, at least it wasn't a developer that benefited this time (although UTA is starting to look less and less rosy). Pathetic!
Rudi:
I see you've become a Yellow Dog Republican. A Republican County Commissioner is fine with the legislature deciding to force Weber County to impose a county sales tax its elected commissioners have chosen not to impose. And you want her re-elected.
Doesn't get a whole lot more "yellow doggy" than that, compadre.
MM:
I think Weber County should have added to tax back too. But the state legislature left the matter up to the county to decide and so the County Commissioners should have made the decision. That is what we elect them to office to do.
I find it really amusing that some of our Yellow Dog Republicans, who beat the "local government knows the local situation best and should make local decisions" drum constantly, have no problem with Republican Zogmeister applauding the state legislature forcing just two counties, including her own, to impose a local sales tax.
What really happened here, I think, is that the Spineless Three [aka Weber County Commissioners] were not about to take the heat for re-imposing even a five one hundredths of a percent sales tax the legislature had just taken off... not in this tax sensitive year. And so they were delighted to have their legislative colleagues do the dirty work for them. Of such is Republican courage [politely so called] in elected officials in Weber County made.
There's no good reason for county-level races to be partisan. The national political parties are defined mainly by their positions on national and international issues, like abortion and the Iraq war. When I vote for a county commissioner I really don't care about her or his views on these issues. County elections should be nonpartisan, just like municipal elections.
Dan:
Ah, Dan, we disagree. Both County and City elections should be partisan. I don't think the two parties are simply tweedledee and tweedledum. There are substantive differences between the parties that involve philosophy of government, what constitutes good governance, where the balance between individual freedom and the public good can best be found, and so on. And merely having the state say that party affiliation shall not be indicated in non-partisan elections does not make those elections non-partisan.
Like it or not, there is a degree of party loyalty to be found on both sides of the aisle, and, often and sadly, a reluctance to raise questions that would be awkward for members of the same party. Until that changes... and I don't expect it to in my lifetime or yours... it would be wise for the public good to have on all elective bodies at least one member whose party loyalty runs opposite those of the other members, and who will therefor be willing, if not eager, to raise questions on public matters that the other members would, out of party loyalty, prefer not be asked.
I think Weber and Davis Counties are big enough to switch from this agrarian era style county government to a more representative council mayor form.
Population and county governments have grown way beyond that envisioned in the three man county commission set up where three honest farmers could get together once in a while and decide on county business.
As it is in the modern day industrial Wasatch Front there is way too much power in the hands of three, often incompetent, politicians, especially when they are all from one party.
Look how much better Salt Lake County is since they dumped the three commissioner form. It is a much leaner running and user friendly government now than before. when people like Horiuchi and Nancy Workmen held such great individual power rampant inefficiencies and scandal was the norm.
A competent mayor with a strong council would benefit all residents of Davis and Weber Counties.
"I see you've become a Yellow Dog Republican."
I am a Republican from inheritance, from prejudice and principle, if the principle suits me. But I have passed the yaller dog degree.
(With apologies to Mr. W. L. Moore of Kansas City)
The state legislature cured another "unintended consequences" problem with this curative legislation. The matter should have never been dropped into the County Commission's lap in the first place, in my never-humble view.
Happily, the problem was fixed at its original source. Unfortunately, the legislature doesn't always address and correct its mistakes in full. Case in point.
And I'm in total agreement with the above-expressed proposition of gentle reader Dan S., i.e, County Government politics should be non-partisan, just as is municipal politics in Utah.
I grow weary of the grade-school partisanship that creeps into discussions of Weber County Commission politics.
Is it safe to say that this is quite a discussion regarding a ONE SENTENCE QUOTE from Jan Z?
Has anybody called her to ask what she meant, and if she really intended to convey what the article did?
It may be we put too much credibility in the newspaper reporting sometimes. This quote sure seems like a small reason to vote somebody out.
It reminds me of how some people on this blog turned on Sue VanHooser because they saw her in a debate and weren't awed.
If people know we will turn on them so easily and quickly, why would they ever listen to us, let alone run for office?
Elected officials are human too. We need many people to run, so we will have choices. Heaven knows, the godfreyites will have their candidates in every race.
Rudi:
Agreed, overall, this little tempest in a teapot is a case of Bramble & Co., Inc. patching up a hole they themselves punched in the UTA boat. They find themselves doing that a lot with the stealth bills they slide through unnoticed,undebated and often in the hectic closing hours.
Not quite sure what "grade school partisanship" means, but I think partisanship generally gets a bad rap. There are a few... a very few... areas in which I'd agree partisan differences should not be in any way relevant. School board elections, for example. But as a general rule, people are partisan because they believe there are real, substantive and significant differences between the parties on important matters. So long as that is so, so long as it does make a difference who wins elections and is in power, then partisanship is not only appropriate, why... it's the American Way.
What I suspect you mean when you denounce partisanship is "blind partisanship." And on that, I'd agree with you. Blind partisanship generally means supporting someone in office who thinks fundamentally differently than you do in whatever the key issues are, merely because he's from your party. As an example, I give you Rep. Rob Bishop [R-Utah], who has towed the Bush line since he took his oath of office, but who now tells us he thought Bush was lying about the reason to invade Iraq and that he, Bishop, never believed him, that he thought Bush handled the war incompetently, that he wants a deadline for US withdrawl, etc. But despite all that, he towed the Bush line in vote after vote after vote. That kind of blind partisanship I'd agree with you we do not need. On either side of the aisle.
Curm,
I challenge you to document that there is any substantive difference between the two parties on the major local issues affecting Weber County. Sure, the Republicans talk more about smaller government and lower taxes, but it's just talk.
When I first moved here we had two Republicans and one Democrat on the County Commission. The big controversy at that time was over whether to build the downtown conference center and, at the same time, refurbish the Egyptian Theater, all at taxpayer expense. Now you would think the Republicans, being for less government and lower taxes, would have opposed this project while the Democrat, being for more government and higher taxes, would have supported it. Guess what? It was more or less the other way around. The Republicans supported the project while the Democrat was at least partially opposed. (As I recall, he said he personally supported only the Egyptian Theater part of the project, but also thought the decision should have been put to the public for a vote.)
Why don't all us Democrats get behind everything that's going on if the actions of the local Republicans are truely what we Democrats would actually support?
Lots of talk and theory and speculation...all very interesting.
But what concerns me is the "fuzzy math". Back when we actually voted 50-50% with an unknown slight edge alledgedly for Opinion Question whatever... in Nov 07. I think I recall the 1/2 of 1% sales tax on prepared food items and whatever other "boutique" services the lobbyists had not been hired to exempt. Well... it was to "make UTA Frontrunner whole" (and other projects unspecified) due to prior legislative cowardice over tax increases. They basically passed the buck down to the Counties. And the 1/2 of one percent sales tax was estimated to generate between $8 and $9 Million from each of the two counties (Davis and Weber).
We discovered later that it was really to be used to pay big bucks to the UTA Kingpin (English I think his name is) and his Staff (about a cool one million annually to each when all perks are tallied). Oh, and to pad the accounts forever since this is a "forever tax" with no end date, so that future bonding can attract better interest rates and bond ratings with our blood money stashed away for them to pay themselves with.
Again "forever" on the backs of the little people, who can not afford to drive anymore to get to the UTA terminals/stops due to the double crunch of having to pay higher taxes and higher taxes "forever" while paying record gasoline prices with more taxes. Fuel taxes still highest in the intermountain west since 1995 when the last spendthrift RINO Governor (Leavett) graced us with his presence.
The whole discussion about partisanship at the local level...well I think Ozboy and Crum have it figured out very well.
Only thing I can add is, just about everyone in this State who considers themselves Republican are generally Democrats in reality. And the Democrats are the Republicans - based upon how they vote and behave. This State has just about everything 180 degrees out, or opposite.
So if you want republican conservative values and fiscal policy you should vote with Curm and the Democrats.
If on the other hand, you have 10% annual increases in government with more and more spending in Utah, vote for more rino Republicans. There are a few exceptions like Rudi but damn few, who straddle the fence.
Pretty simple really...
Minor,
Yes, it is the quest for the small government politician - perhaps the vain quest.
The problem is few who see government as the problem, wish to be part of government. Those who are attracted to government, want to make government "better" not "smaller", even though the latter is usually the best way to the former.
What person runs for office to LIMIT their influence and the influence of their friends on society?
Most of the time, the R's vs the D's is just a question of which set of cronies gets the goodies.
What small government type could stomach 20 hours per week minimum just to be on the city council of Hooterville, ie Ogden?
No, the hard core small government type is hard to find. With all his great speeches, even Reagan grew government. Actually, the only Prez in decades to actually reduce government was Clinton. No wonder he was popular.
The Constitution was inspired genius. But it's been a slow slide down ever since.
Like now: 8 years of raising the price of oil for his petro cronies, war for war profiteers, and now the Federal Reserve spending $200 billion through brokerages to prop up stock prices before he leaves office. The greatest scam in US history.
So we will elect Demos, so another set of cronies will get the graft for awhile.
And Ron Paul can't get 2% of the vote, because we all figure we're the ones on the gravy train, and don't want it to stop. In the end, it's our city, county, state and country. And so, it has to be our problem, and our fault.
Well said Danny.
I was almost there until my own neighborhood turned against me. It was the last straw after 30 years of such abuse, even tho this "do it efficiently and delete completely unnecessary redundancy and "empire built bureaucracies at every level", displace Realtor Association/developers from every level of government, and eliminate gifts and special interest campaign "donations/bribery" by making them a felony...and that is only for starters!
But like you say, who wants to put up with everything at any level of government when such corruption and graft is so prevalent at virtually every level?
Who indeed? I personally am preparing for life after Utah because of what you so accurately said.
Minor:
The sales tax increase that Weber County barely passed last November (and that Davis County defeated) was 1/4 cent on every dollar spent on general merchandise. The revenue from this tax must be spent on "regionally significant" transportation projects. These can be either highways or transit, but in either case it has to be new capacity projects--not just paying the operating expenses of existing systems like buses and the FrontRunner. The Weber Area Council of Governments (WACOG), which consists of the county commissioners, mayors of every incorporated municipality, and the Ogden city council chair, are charged with deciding exactly which projects will be funded out of this money. So far, all indications are that at least half of the money, perhaps much more, will be spent on highways. In fact, they're under no obligation to spend any of it on transit. So it's not correct to assume that this money, or even a portion of it, goes directly to UTA.
My hope, though, is that UTA will get nearly half of the funding--and use it to build better transit systems to bring people into downtown Ogden. The alternative is to spend all the money on highways in west Weber County, subsidizing developers of bedroom subdivisions whose residents want quicker access to jobs in Salt Lake. That's the last thing Weber County needs.
"Step up and Fund Transit? NOT! A taxpayer's perspective for a change
The voice of the majority; a public mandate is not 1/3 of 1%. That is the margin by which the “Opinion” Question One allegedly passed in Weber County in Nov. Allegedly, because about 1,400 provisional ballots were cast, thanks to what has been spun as overzealous Godfrey supporters. Many votes lay impotent on the cutting room floor leaving the true “Opinion Question One” tote in doubt forever.
But one thing is certain, as many citizens voted against the “Opinion” as those who voted for it. And that public voice is clear. Commissioners, do not raise our taxes any more!
The little people struggling to make ends meet have already been abused by UTA. We have already been paying. Weber citizens who drive pay 43 cents a gallon at the pump, $78 minimum per vehicle yearly with registration, safety, emissions, corridor preservation and transit fees. Add to that what our Federal taxes provide for roads and transit. $500 Million in grant money to Utah County already pledged, for example. All this for roads and transit.
Yet there is never enough. So every County resident is already paying for “mass transit” whether they use public transit or not. We all benefit from reduced congestion and energy conservation they tell us.
Since before 2000 we have been paying and as of 21 July 2007:
State Sales & Use Tax 4.75%
Local Sales & Use Tax 1.0 %
Mass Transit Tax .25%
Additional Mass Transit Tax .25%
County Option Sales Tax .25%
County Botanical Cultural, Zoo Tax (RAMP).10%
*Additional-additional Mass Transit Tax .25% (still hanging in the balance)
Downright depressing Weber Co. Tax Total 6.85%
UTA and Commissioners, what we see everyday is Olympic sized new busses which seat about forty people steaming around the County either empty or with a maximum of about eight people sitting in them. What we see is shining gigantic UTA demands, threats of service cutbacks, and obvious fraud waste and abuse. Fraudulent claims of service cutbacks - where little exists in the first place, wasteful and grossly inefficient service routings - using forty passenger buses brimming with very low rider-ship, and extortionist demands for inappropriate taxpayer funding.
If UTA cuts back services because they can not be made whole on yet another nine million of taxpayer money a year so what? It is way past time UTA quit sucking the public tit. UTA buy your own milk using the interest money from hundreds of millions we have already been bilked into paying you.
If our Commissioners “enact” another “Opinion Question One” Tax* we will be paying well in excess of $26.1 Million a year for “Mass Transit” whether we use it or not. No specifics, no cost benefits analysis, no competitive bids nor even estimates. It would be just a 4th transit tax with no end date on top of many other UTA taxes already being paid forever. None of these “mass transit taxes” have “end dates” attached. We do not think you Commissioners have completely lost your collective minds. Please prove us right.
Commissioners tell UTA they need to get their house in order and manage efficiently before they come to the sales tax well again. Ask when they will become self sufficient and sustain their own operations. A core function of local and State government is to facilitate, not pay for public transportation. If it was we would like our cut of the “Mass transit tax” in new BMW convertibles with all fuel and maintenance included please. Better yet, considering how many are using it you can buy the UTA customers each a “Beamer” and still save us taxpayers hundreds of millions. Something about effective “cost benefit analysis” and whether it was ever done in the past.
Minor,
You're entitled to your opinion of mass transit, but please be more careful with the facts. The gas tax that we pay to the state goes entirely toward roads, not transit. Same for vehicle registration fees. We also subsidize roads through a portion of our state sales tax, and through the various taxes that pay for maintenance of city streets and for driving-related law enforcement.
Many of UTA's buses are full. Have you ever ridden the 72 or 73 express between Ogden and Salt Lake City? These buses are relatively empty near the end of the line in Ogden, but they fill up as they head south and they're full as they leave SLC in the afternoon heading north. Many local routes in urban neighborhoods also tend to be full, at least at the busy times of the day.
UTA would like to put more buses on the routes where there's high demand, but to do so they'd have to cut service on other routes, and every time they do that, people and politicians complain. Suburban dwellers rightly point out that since they're paying for UTA bus service, there should be service to their suburban neighborhoods--even if they use the service only once or twice a year. So UTA is in a tough position, trying to balance this political reality against the more common-sense approach of favoring urban neighborhoods where demand is high.
And in Weber County, it's happening again. Where should the transit portion of the new 1/4 cent sales tax revenue be spent? The demand for transit is in Ogden City, especially along the line between downtown and WSU and McKay-Dee Hospital. This is where there's a shortage of parking and a reasonable chance that people will be willing to walk between the transit stop and their ultimate destination. But Ogden City is under-represented on WACOG, while low-density suburbs are over-represented. So there's a fair chance that WACOG will force UTA to put upgraded transit lines in places where the demand is much lower. If this happens, please don't blame UTA. The blame will fall squarely on our mayors and county commissioners.
I have problems with every taxpayer paying forever taxes on anything. And as for "Transit" taxes which are used to prop up mass transit forever...well AMTRAC, for example, shows this is not a good idea. Public transportation should be paid for by the public which uses it and not "Shirley", the retired little widow women on fixed incomes having to chose between her meds or food. Corridor preseration also comes from registration fees, check Davis and most other counties, and it applies to both transit rail line and highway and road construction.
If so many buses are full as you say, then why aren't the riders paying for the service and English's outrageous salary for example?
For the amount of public money being abused for UTA support, every rider could pay to have door to door taxi service in a limo.
Minor,
This thread is getting stale so I'm not gonna invest much more time in it, but your final statement is quite an exaggeration.
How often do you ride the bus (or TRAX) anyway? I get the impression that you don't have much relevant experience.
MM:
On big buses running with only six or eight passengers: Well, MM, buses have to serve peak demand on the routes they run. This necessarily means that a bus that might be quite full during peak hours can be running with evidently lighter loads the rest of the time. On some routes [e.g. the 625 in Ogden for example], UTA bought smaller and more fuel efficient buses to run.
Occasionally, someone in the papers writes a letter complaining that he saw a bus go by with only two or three passengers, etc. Well, I ride the 603 daily, and sometimes between downtown and WSU. I've gotten on downtown, three or four people on the bus, three more boarded where I boarded. I counted. I've done this several times. And there are times when there are never more than eight or nine people on the bus, and sometimes only three or four, but over the whole course of the run from downtown to WSU 20 to 25 people have gotten on or off the bus. And it's run isn't finished where I get off. So it's very difficult to draw conclusions about traffic loads from what you might see on a particular bus on a particular route on a particular day.
Other calendar driven changes impact too. When WSU is in session, in early afternoon the 55 running south packs 'em in, and has standing room only on some days. When WSU is not in session between terms, the bus runs with only a few customers. Again, you have to select equipment for routes based on peak demand.
BTW, if you want to argue "no subsidies, passengers pay the full load," then you're going to have to argue it for air passengers too. The fedgov massively subsidizes air traffic, by multiples that make tax support of ground transit pale by comparison. Lotsa luck selling that one... an end to federal subsidies for airports, air traffic control, FAA safety inspections, etc.
And Dan's point about the UTA [in fact all transit systems nationwide] not being able to run the most efficient routes because of --- I don't think I'd call it "political" pressure, but close enough --- is correct. Transit systems do have to strike some kind of public service balance between servicing high volume routes [the suburban express bus routes, for example] and lower traffic routes that nevertheless service areas in which significant numbers rely on transit as their only form of transportation. It's a balancing act, not a model designed to maximize use, but one to maximize utility broadly across the community. Not easy, and the resulting mix never, but never, pleases everyone.
As for Mr. Inglish's pay: I don't pretend to have any hard and fast information about how appropriate or inappropriate it is. But I would say that the assumption the howling politicos are making, and that newspapers are repeating, that his getting more than the average paid to transit directors in similar sized cities necessarily means he is being overpaid is false. For example, if the system Mr. Inglish runs is bringing in, annually over time, significantly more federal grant money than the average for similar sized system, then his higher pay may well be fully justified and a benefit to the state. [I said may be, remember. I don't have the numbers. I'm only contesting the simple minded assumption the legislative howlers are making that his beating the average for his job in similar sized cities is necessarily evidence of UTA squandering money on unjustified salaries.] I hold no brief for Mr. Inglish, particularly given his penchant for playing footsie with Hizzonah, Mayor Godfrey over using money for gondola studies. But absent an examination, based on fact, not some yahoo Republican state representative looking for an election headline, it's hard to know if his compensation is in fact too high, about right, or too low.
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