Sunday, August 23, 2009

Godfrey Visionary Dream Re-Run: "Ignore the Blunders, There's A Grand Godfrey Scheme In The Works"

It's all "part of the plan," Godfrey reassures his loyal lemmings

We'll direct your attention to the Standard-Examiner editorial page this morning, where our readers will find a thinly-disguised 2009 municipal election campaign piece, posing as a Matthew Godfrey guest commentary. In the wake of Boss Godfrey's most recent public relations setback (in a long daisy-chain of PR setbacks,) we suppose that the Godfrey brain trust thought it would be a good idea, now that we're on the cusp of the 2009 election, to remind wavering Godfrey Lemmings that there's a grand strategy at play here, that Emerald City Citizens must ignore the ever-recurring Godfrey pratfalls, and that they all must keep the faith, as our visionary mayor moves Ogden City inexorably "forward" toward claiming its destiny as the world's most famous kiddie playpen:
Ogden's strategic plan
Yeah, we've all heard the story before, about how Ogden will be saved from ruin, and transformed into a land of milk and honey, all because of the helpful suggestion of a homesick ski industry haberdasher. In fact, we've heard this story so many times, (as one gentle reader remarked in an early morning email missive,) that this morning's guest commentary ought to have been labelled by the Std-Ex as a re-run.

If Godfrey had offered some real economic facts and figures this morning, to demonstrate the impact of his "recreational theme" to date, rather than reiterating another rendition of the Godfrey high adventure recreation "I have a dream" speech, we'd have something substantial to discuss this morning. As it stands, we're stuck with another mindless Godfrey puff-piece.

Have at it, O Gentle Ones.

Godfrey wears a giant "kick me" sign on his back this morning, wethinks.


Biker Babe said...

He must have had a bad dream that the lovely lemming people of Ogden had forgotten something ... and woke up inspired to remind the no-nothings what his grand plan is all about ....

just sayin


Blaine Carl said...

Well, I suppose that there should be both "pro & con" regarding the comments of both the Mayor and Mr. Zink.

I enjoyed both the Godfrey article and Mr. Zink's interpretation of it. And some of what Mr. Zink writes has some logic to it: some of the Mayor's recent PR disasters; the fact that we don't often see a balance sheet with the positive figures on it that the Mayor suggests this "high adventure capitol" is having; etc.

But don't forget, even though The Junction may have been the Mayor's dream, there was apparently a brain trust that encouraged that dream and a City Council that voted to fund that dream (of course, most on this blog will say that that particular CC was a "rubber stamp" council and with people like Fasi Filiaga on it, a guy whom I probably wouldn't want setting up my Trust or giving me financial advice, there were some pretty good brain trusts involved, namely Safstein & Jorgensen).

I do believe that Geiger's relocating Descente in Ogden has had a positive influence on drawing other outdoor businesses to town. And I believe that one recreational pursuit will draw another, and so on. The problem, as I see it, is that most on this blog look at all this as risking the taxpayer's dollars for some PR scheme that Godfrey has cooked up.

And, in some cases, this is not too far from the truth (the gondola, the Ice Tower, etc.). But I've yet to read WHAT ya'll would have done to increase the tax base, get the City moving, through growth and increased revenue, and lessening our subsidies (like the 300K we spend to allow Bill C. to play a little golf at MOGC).

The dissent I don't mind. It's the lack of ideas coming back from many of you who are so negative that would have helped propel our City into the future. It's too late to become Silicone Valley (that's Utah County territory); it's too late to become a medical community (SLC and the U of U have that corraled); and it's too late to become an outlet center (Park City has that one going).

So, what would it be, oh dissenters? What would you have had us do to re-establish ourselves to our former greatness?

DR. OPPOSITE said...

The Godfrey brain trust have some good brains. They keep them in the refrigerator in the ninth floor break room.

disgusted said...

Blaine Carl

i guess all your sleuthing for ideas to incorporated in your fearless leaders editorial didnt yield you much so he went with a repeat of his same old rhetoric. but im sure you feel that you really brought home the bacon for your lord and master from what you learned here on the blog.

i particularly loved his praise to kurt geiger and how he brought his company as if he owns it to ogden. his company that was looking for a cheaper place to do business in the first place anyway and btw ogden is where kurt is originally from and where he wanted to get back to his extended family. the company that employs less than a dozen people in ogden most of which make at or near minimum wage other than for himself and his boy wonder.

and wasnt godfreys original plan in 2000 to attract high tech not high adventure. how did we get off track. and talking about off track the rail roads has never left ogden but like a lot of businesses it transitioned to the changing business world and automated their business where they needed less of a presence in the community. the railroad did not abandon us the city just didnt see the change coming and didnt act accordingly but that was way before godfreys time and he shouldnt be using it as the basis for when things in ogden went down hill.

ogden faired ok for a long time after the railroad reduced their presence in ogden. but the noticeable change came when the city fathers didn’t get more proactive with the ownership and management of the downtown mall. the city should not have allowed the management of the mall to let the anchor store in the mall get away. this weaken the draw of the mall and as the country entered into another economic slowdown the mall started to loose stores one by one until it was no long a draw to the city. this should be the time frame that godfrey uses when referring to ogdens down turn.

additionally as things slowed down the city allowed more and more of the homes in the inner city to be converted to rental properties by not enforcing and then relaxing the then current ordinances over single family home ownership thus ensuring the flight of home owners looking for stable and safe neighborhoods to the suburbs in the surrounding communities. had the city held their ground on the ordinances and enforcement of those ordinances and toughed out the effects of the economic slow downs the city would look much different today.

but you and godfrey still dont get the big picture and probably never will. its always easier to throw money at something particularly when its not your money than it is to address the real problem that cant be fixed overnight and wont win you a lot of friend that might take care of you after you leave office.

Monotreme said...

With respect, Blaine Carl, I think you oversimplify and miss the point.

I can't speak for others. For myself, I'm not an automatic "naysayer" as I've been labeled. Rather, I want to see the due diligence.

I think the taxpayers deserve at least the same amount and quality of material and presentation as you'd give a bank if you wanted a loan -- don't you agree?

For example, on the ice tower, I think we both agree it's a steaming crock o' poo. If you look at the so-called grant application, it's a steaming crock o' poo as well. I have written literally dozens of grants for federal, state and local agencies, and I'd be embarrassed to lay out the raw sewage that the application contains. I haven't worked for a bank, but I think a bank loan officer would say the same thing.

So, it's not the ideas themselves, it's that we as taxpayers are asked to endorse the ideas on a "trust me, this'll be great" basis. That's what scares me.

Colonel Klink said...

One of the main reasons the Germans lost the war according to many experts is the fact that they took on too many fronts for the amount of resources that they had. Kind of sounds like what Ogden City is doing right now with all of the project that the city is trying to take on.

OgdenSupporter said...

Blaine Carl,

Ogden is a blue collar town. We are used to rolling up our sleeves and going to work. Most of us are just plain, down-to-earth people who have spent most of our lives giving what we could to Ogden and helping the city we love and our neighbors. Is it unreasonable to want and expect down-to-earth proposals from our government leadership? We feel that we have earned some consideration and some say in what happens to "our town." Godfrey has refused to give us either. And he only moved to Ogden shortly before running for mayor. He doesn't have the feelings for and ties to Ogden that we do.
As for Safsten and Jorgensen as good council members -- yes, they were to a degree, but they also were in the mayor's pocket, and seldom questioned what he told them in their secret, closed-door, one-on-one meetings. They can hardly be seen as representing their constinuency. Jorgensen has seen the light and has stated that he does not believe in Godfrey's methods for achieving his goals for Ogden. (And had his job with UTA threatened at Godfrey's direction.) Safsten voted against the mayor once and was called on the carpet, and reacted (voted) thereafter like a whipped puppy with his tail between his legs trying to win his master's approval back!
Because Godfrey is such a control freak, he has driven off any other entity who would have tackled the job of rejuvenating the old mall site and developing a new image for Ogden. When they left they stated the reason for leaving was that Godfrey's ideas were not feasible and unrealistic. They are experts with the expertise, knowledge and resources to determine what would have worked in place of the old mall. It is my belief that Ogden would NOT be in debt as deep as it is, and the City would not be divided as it is if Godfrey had allowed the firm from Colorado to do their thing, instead of having to have his way as he does with everything -- like a very spoiled little brat! It was Godfrey's and the "rubber stamp" council's responsibility to provide for Ogden's rejuvenation by seriously considering the advice of such an agency. Our City leaders did fail the City! It isn't the responsibility of ordinary citizens to make such an important decision, so your arguement is moot. Because of the distance from Park City, and its more accessible location, an outlet mall in Ogden was a feasible suggestion. It just wasn't what Godfrey wanted, so it automatically would not work.
There has been a lot of news coverage the last few days how increased development of new homes has not been the answer to establishing a sustaining tax base for cities. We encourage the administration to take that bit of hard-learned knowledge from Syracuse (Ogden Rambler's article in the SE today) and quit pushing the development of condos and a hotel in our precious open space in our foothills.

Ray Vaughn said...

How many actual jobs and business has come to Ogden since Matthew Godfrey became mayor? How much business has left Ogden since Matthew Godfrey became mayor? Of the business and jobs that have come to Ogden how many were given tax breaks, free or cheap land or favorable terms? To those who suggest that people cannot have a opinion unless they have brought business to Ogden I have a question? The group of people surrounding the mayor seems to be a closed group. Unless you are a member of the inner circle it seems that you are ignored or dismissed. Open up the process to inspection and questioning. The secerecy and failure to communicate with the public is a wedge that the administration is responsible for. By the way I remember Descante coming to Ogden because of the coming gondola. If the gondola is not built will descante leave. I resent the implication that those of us who question the direction of Ogden have done nothing to make it better. Getting responsible leadership in place will be a improvement thatt I will take pride in.

tom said...

Comment in Standard:

What Mayor Godfrey doesn't tell us in this little propaganda piece:

He says nothing of the $100 million or there abouts hole of debt he has already dug for Ogden, and all of Weber County tax payers.

Nothing here about the many secret and behind closed door deals he has got the tax payers into.

No mention of how his cronies seem to be the only people who really come out all right with these many loser schemes.

Not a word about the enormous bond payments the city's BDO income is making monthly because the Junction is not even coming close to making back the money he told the citizens it would.

He doesn't really tell us why the Mt. Ogden golf course is so important to him inspite of it's cost being a very small fraction of the loses being incurred daily by the Junction. He would have us believe that the figure he made up out of whole cloth about Mt. Ogden's loses - $300,000 - is a significant enough motive to squander many millions more of tax payer money to further the private development interests of his cronies, or that those pals of his want to plow under and build over a significant amount of the east bench open space.

I couldn't find where he tells us that not only will the tax payers of Weber County take it in the shorts for decades into the future for all of these ridiculous and losing business ventures he has got them into, but that his much vaunted raising of property values will do nothing for the citizens but raise their property tax bills.

I could go on and on about what the mayor hasn't told us with this article, but I will leave it with my opinion that his reign of incompetence in Ogden will ultimately be judged to be the most financially disastrous in the city's history.

Curmudgeon said...

Well, BC, the extent to which the Mayor's grand vision for the future is a viable one depends to a considerable extent on the public's assessment of how his judgment has played out in the past.

Did you notice that his essay in today's SE did not so much as mention, even in his "things still to do list" what he once touted as Ogden's best, if not only, chance to have a prosperous future: selling Mt. Ogden Park for real estate development so that he could pay for part [but only part] of a $30 million dollar or so flatland gondola tourist ride from downtown to WSU. Nary a mention --- at least not explicitly. There was that elliptical reference to doing something unspecified about the golf course. No mention of his gondola obsession is especially curious since he's said recently that the Ogden City Gondola scheme is not dead by any means as far as he's concerned. And yet, it gets no a mention in his list of critical things still to do.

I also notice the list does not mention what he's very recently said is important the city: improving public transit in Ogden, and in particular, working for a trolley or BRT line from downtown to WSU/McKay-Dee. Gone gone gone from Hizzonah's wish list. Imagine that.

Couldn't be that he's stillscheming to save the downtown to WSU accelerated transit route for the gondola plan he was forced to abandon to save his re-election last election.... could it?

Tired of paying for others to play said...

Per godfreys editorial “The following are critical steps to our future success,
* Provide solutions to Mt. Ogden Golf Course to be self sufficient like El Monte so the $300k per year we're spending there can be used in areas that will better serve its citizens.
*Develop more recreation venues that will bring competitions and tourism to Ogden.”
Wtf, in one breath he says make the golf course be self sufficient which we all know means sell it off or get rid of the golf course to development for homes and condos and in the other breath he says to develop more recreational venues.
Where is this man’s continuity in logic?
Last I looked the venues he has created they have either cost the residents on the front end or are costing the residents just to maintain them. Specifically I mention the Salomon Center’s I Fly, Climbing Wall and Wave Runner that are costing the residents over a $100,000 a month in subsidized rent not to mention the repairs. I just hope he is never successful in his desire to build the Ice Tower because I can only imagine what it will cost the residents.

Biker Babe said...

Monotreme -- from the gotta laugh dept:

crock o' poo sounds like a new mix breed of dog!

In all seriousness, though: our esteamed mayor also neglected to mention the shortchanged school district:

If there is an equation for that, it might look like this:

shortchanged school district = unemployable non-graduates for the jobs he is procducing by his grand plan. --> unemployable = unable to buy in a valued up housing market -- > loss of Ogden citizens or growth in homeless population

just sayin


disgusted said...

it amazes me how and why the mayor wont leave the golf course alone. he has been after this piece of land for as long as i can remember and yet the residents like it the way it is and where it is including the club house.

i have poured over the city annual reports over the years and have seen where cost of operations are padded. revenues for the golf carts being diverted to the motor pool. the golf course having to absorb a bd department guy as a part of their operating cost at over $100,000/year. the courses having to assume debt that wasnt even originally part of the golf course and then the city never applying any of the debt payments to pay down principal. i have talked to people that know more than a little something about golf courses and i have first hand tried to provide input as have others to make this golf course self sufficient. all to no avail which forces me to conclude that the mayor does not want it to succeed so he has a justification to do something else with the course.

i truly believe that godfrey is intentionally creating an inefficient operation at the mt. ogden golf course that is costing the residents a lot of money. that in my opinion is not only irresponsible to the tax paying residents of ogden but also immoral and unethical.

specific observations being that the course has just about zero dollars for a capital improvement budget thus repairs go unrepaired. i think they had $6000 dollars last year. there are not enough golf carts for golfers to use and so business is turned away ever day. there are not enough employees working the snack bar/grill so customers are turned away because they don’t have the time to wait for the service particularly when they are making the turn onto the back nine. i have personally tried to make reservations for a round of golf for the following day and have had the phone ring of the hook. management of the course is intentionally letting things deteriorate and I can only assume that it is at the direction of the mayor himself because this same management seems to be able to run a tight ship at the el monte golf course.

godfrey is fooling no one and he also doesn’t respect what this course and the surrounding open space means to the residents. he is not a mayor of the people he is a mayor looking for the personal gain down the road. it’s the only conclusion that i can come up with.

Blaine Carl said...

If I might use a bit of Biker Babe's Valley venacular: "Like, wow!" My post evoked more flames than the Mayor's article.

And all I was asking was, "what is/was this blog's ALTERNATIVES?" I didn't read much, if any, of those alternatives. Just got some rambling history lesson about the railroad and not seeing the "big picture" (Disgusted, hire a new writer to come up with a new line for you), neither of which really hit the nail on the head.

Ray Vaughan "resents the implication that those of us who question the direction Ogden have done nothing to make it better." Well, Ray, what have you done? Hell, you couldn't even get the Mayor ousted in the last election. let alone recruit some viable business to relocate here. You bitch about Desente's lack of employess but when a Winco announces plans to come, or a WalMart, places that will add MANY jobs, you nuke 'em. You seem to want it both ways, Mr. Vaughan.

Curmudgeon, I thought you'd be pleased that hizzonah's wish list didn't mention real estate deals for the golf course or gondolas to some idiotic ski resort to be built on the slopes of Malan's Basin. Remember, I agreed with much of what Mr. Zink had to say; I just didn't get into ALL specifics, as space here, like in newspapers, doesn't always permit that. I do wish I'd read about public transportation, however. On that, you and I agree.


Enough of the more and/or lacking "due diligence," and railing against the Mayor. In BB's words: "Duh, like I'm hip to all that, dig." Just give me something substantial that will/would/could/should replace what Godfrey's doing (and I'll admit, some of his methods leave much to be disired). The only thing I read on this blog is these Godfrey flame jobs that avail nobody anything....and this is an election year and Disgusted and his bunch still don't understand the "mobilization" aspect that I tossed his way.

Comon, about something heavy here instead of the same old rhetoric!?!

Ray Vaughn said...

Blaine Carl, yes the mayor won reelection. But many people were challenged at the polls. How many were unable to provide asked for documention despite still being legal proper residents of Ogden. How many voters did not have the time or energy to fend off a petty challenge. What am I doing to make Ogden better? I still try to shop and live here although the tempation to move is high. I try to point out the problems I see and let my elected council people know my feelings on various subjects. I try to golf at Mount Ogden but I tire of waiting for a cart. Taking away choices and opportunities in Ogden then having a mayoral lackey like you complain I do not do enough is insulting. Don't worry, the next election cycle coming. By the way since the mayor often says the private sector can provide better service than the city lets turn business development over to someone else. I still live here and try to do my best to make Ogden a better place to live and work. And I don't even get a city handout to stay.

Jennifer said...

Blaine Carl,

You want alternatives? we have an election coming up -- check out our candidates for four (count 'em: 1,2,3,4) city council seats. I don't know about the other candidates - they haven't posted much of anything to let the voters know what they are all about.

I have My Blog wherein I periodically update with issues that concern me.

It is the "$100 million or there abouts hole of debt he has already dug for Ogden, and all of Weber County tax payers" (Tom) and the "We feel that we have earned some consideration and some say in what happens to "our town." Godfrey has refused to give us either." (Ogden Supporter) and the "How many actual jobs and business has come to Ogden since Matthew Godfrey became mayor? How much business has left Ogden since Matthew Godfrey became mayor?" (Ray Vaughan) and many other issues that concern me. I hope to become part of a team that can address these issues and rectify a bad situation enough to regain some semblance of public trust for the City's Government.

I'm thinking a lot of the bloggers here live in Ogden, or have a concern for what happens in Ogden - and I feel it is a good source to use in finding out what citizens are concerned about -- because that is what being part of the team that is the City Council is all about - understanding the needs and wants of its constituents.

Jennifer Neil

Blaine Carl said...

Now Jennifer, THAT'S what I'm talking about! Getting involved. And Ray, you seem to want a "jandout." Isn't that moving toward "socialism;" something that this blog claims the Mayor is all about, the spending of tax dollars? My goodness. And you HAVE TO UNDERSTAND my message, not just read the words (seems I repeat that a lot on this blog). I'm not a Mayor's "lackey." I agree with some things he does and disagree with others. Please, Ray, get it straight and try to understand....I want to hear YOU'RE ALTERNATIVES and WHAT YOU'D DO TO BETTER OGDEN, instead of this constant carping about the Mayor, as if everything that has happened to Ogden in a negative sense is the result of Matt Godfrey. Get real, dude.

I have a little railroad story to tell ya'll later. It's the REAL reason for the demise of Ogden as a major railroad center, a far cry from Disgusted's railroad tale. I know a little of what I speak as I come from a railroad family and worked the rails myself, for years. Hopefully, when I tell this story, it won't be looked upon as "talking down" to those who don't really know. Instead, it will be looked upon as simply what it is: the real facts on why the RR left Ogden and the result its leaving had on our City.

There's more to why we're where we're at than Mayor Godfrey....but at least he's trying to do something other than complain about things, similar what many on this blog do.

Now, back to the Sunday chores.

Curmudgeon said...


On alternatives: Well, BC, just as a matter of logic, no, those who think Hizzonh's plans are a bad idea do not have to come up with alternatives. All they have to do is establish that what he wants to do will make things worse, not better. When you're in a hole and a kindly person outside suggests you stop digging, it makes little sense for you to say "No, I won't, until you tell me where you would dig instead."

Now, that said, there have been people making alternative suggestions. Have been all along. When Hizzonah was beating his sell-the-park-build-the-gondola drum daily --- back when Channel 17 became known as the "All Godfrey All Geiger All Gondola All The Time" channel --- Councilman Jorgensen came up with what he called Option B: that the mayor abandon the sell the park to build the gondola nonsense, and instead, that the city sell to Mr. Peterson a small --- emphasis on the word small --- plot of land at the head of 36th Street to serve as the base station for the up mountain gondola he wanted to build to Malan's Basin. Peterson would have been free then to build on his own dime his resort in Malan's Basin and his own up-mountain gondola to it. Hizzonah was having none of it.

Others suggested back then for the city to actively work to get a street car line built from downtown to WSU/McKay-Dee to help build business downtown, along the route, and residential development as well. Urban rail is a proven generator, nation wide, of just such transit-oriented development. Mayor Godfrey stalled, delayed and fought it to preserve the route for his gondola obsession.

The Sierra Club began working some years ago to have a National Wilderness Area established in the mountains above Ogden --- a plan the Mayor did not oppose at first, until he was bitten by the sell-the-park-and-build-two-gondolas bug, then he opposed it as potentially interfering with gondola routes. [National Wilderness Areas have a proven record of drawing visitors to an area, by the way.]

He's done some good things. When the "make Ogden into the next Silicon Valley" idea cratered, he was wise to abandon it and move to bring Descente and Amer and the rest in to make Ogden, if he could, a hub for outdoors-equipment manufacturers and merchants. That was a good idea, I thought then and think now. I'm glad they're here. And he was early on board with Frontrunner coming to Ogden, which was good.

But he went way off the rails on The Junction, which is draining public funds at an alarming rate. He's gotten the city invested, very heavily, in subsidizing highly speculative private ventures, and he's done his damnedest to get us heavily invested in still more [recall the downtown outdoor year round ice-climbing popsicle, the velodrome, the extra two floors on the Junction office block, etc. etc.] His record is, at best, mixed, and so new proposals, particularly ones requiring heavy public investment need to be looked at skeptically.

And he's still not given up on the flatland gondola nonsense. That's not my judgment, BC. That's his statement.

disgusted said...

Blaine Carl

you say “"WHAT THE HELL ALTERNATIVES HAVE ANY OF YOU SUGGESTED THAT WILL FURTHER OUR ECONOMY?" wow now your screaming. get a hold of yourself.

you have yet to convince me that you have any ideas of your own and you have indicated that you agree with where the administration is taking us. even accepting his actions irrespective of the dollars he has cost the residents and even after acknowledging that you think his ice tower and urban gondola ideas are out there. and btw two projects he is still trying to pushing along and with his intentions to turn over the golf course and open space to developers. youre fine with all that.

why would i waste my time and energy on you when i can approach someone that is running for office this election year and give them my thoughts as to how to improve ogden. someone that is not part of the administration camp and someone that will make a difference. i can assure you it will be more productive. besides im sure all that would happen is that my thoughts would be rejected as they have in the past and ill once again be labeled as a naysayer for not getting onboard the godfrey vision that going nowhere except into more debt.

i cant help it if you cant see the big picture but thats part of the problem i have with the administration and his minions. you guys don’t seem to have an understanding of history repeating itself or cause and effect or that in combination with a lack of skill sets or ability or real experience to know how to do anything other than to follow others or get involved in fad trends. it all about instant gratification to you guys rather than rolling up the sleeves and doing the hard work.

the mayors editorial just showed that he has run out of ideas. talk about rhetorical. come back when you have an original idea of your own rather than just trying to pick up on ours. or better yet if you think he can handle it have your fearless leader himself post here if he wants to know what ogden residents are really thinking.

Danny said...

Gee, great plan. So this, after he's been if office for a decade?

When is Godfrey's plan supposed to start working? We have more vacant lots, empty buidings and "available" signs than ever.

But we do have Curt Geiger. Yes, having that jerk in town makes the full $100 million in debt worthwhile.

Godfrey's editorial sounds like he's running to clean up the town, not like he's been the one running it for ten years.

Here's my idea for bettering Ogden: Less government, not more. Less Godfrey, not more.

Ray Vaughn said...

Blaine Carl, it grows old. Supporters of the mayor seem to believe that attacking citizens who ask questions and have doubts about the direction of the city are mere naysayers. I ask my representatives about the issue and make my feeling known. Unlike Matthew Godfrey I tend to accept decisions and not announce I will not comply. I'll tell you what, why don't you tell me what business you have brought to Ogden as a citizen, not as a employee of the BD branch. I think he refused the city council actions but did not refuse the money because he fears he will pay a big fine or penalty when the Greiner case is finally announced. Holding city leaders responsible for their actions is one of the many things a citizeen can do. What's next, the mayor looking to the east in the morning and claiming he made the sun rise?

Just a thought said...

I’m thinking that most of the candidates that Godfrey has asked to run for City Council have no real understanding of what’s going on in the city or where most Ogden residents stand on issues. But I think they’re smart enough to know that they better not look like Godfrey rubber stamps if they want to get elected. That said, I wonder if Blaine Carl is not one of them or doing research work for them. Hoping that they can hide like a chameleon in the list of candidates until they’re elected. Sort of like Bill Glassman.

Biker Babe said...

I thought someone already outed the Godfrey Plants in the candidate race.

Listen to me, I sound like I'm reading a script for Invasion of the Pod People!

just sayin


Danny said...

I apologize for having, in haste, referred to Curt Geiger as "that jerk".

The idea was that Godfrey is the jerk.

For him to refer to an event as unimportant as Geiger moving here as a "major breakthrough" is so absurd it illustrates just how deluded Godfrey is. Anybody who as met Curt knows that he not a major breakthrough, or a major anything. But I regret calling him a “jerk.”

Godfrey does himself more damage than his critics ever could in listing his “accomplishments” after a decade of spending, deceit, manipulation, and community angst. His accomplishments, as he has listed them himself, are trivial. Indeed, given their cost, they look more like failures.

Godfrey hangs himself with his own editorial.

BTW, any further info regarding who the Godfreyite council candidates are, as well as who the independent-minded ones are, will be much appreciated.

Biker Babe said...


It looks as if you might have to do a little Re-run yourself. If you can find the blogger post from a couple weeks back that named some candidates who MIGHT be Godfrey Plants .... People seem to have forgotten, or weren't paying attention.

dunno ... just sayin


Danny said...


I have that list. I just want more data and am having trouble getting it. The Godfrey plants are not advertising themselves this time. Wonder why . . .

Bill C. said...

Ah, lying little matty is good for a laugh after-all. His proclaiming geigers return a personal holiday broke me up.
All I could think about was when those farmers from south eastern Idaho brought truckloads of potatoes down and dumped um right in front of the old Dirks Field.
Oh potato knows.

Standard crew said...

Just a thought

Bill Glassman is Blaine Carl. You can weigh what he writes accordingly. He is a light weight numb skull who has a lot of time on his hands these days now that he no longer is getting his unearned income as a lackey in the BD department. He is actually too dumb to realize that the mayor played him for the sucker and here he is still blowing the mayor's horn. He has always been a dumb ass and poser. My advice is to just ignore him.

Danny said...

Yes, it looks like the economy will soon be looking up, to me.

August 20 – Bloomberg (Caroline Hyde and Paul Armstrong): “Corporate defaults worldwide rose in 2009, surpassing the number for the whole of 2008, Standard & Poor’s said… A total of 201 issuers defaulted through Aug. 12, affecting $453.1 billion of debt, S&P said. That’s up from 126 defaults totaling $433 billion for all of last year…”

No problem. The FED will just print money and give it away to connected insiders, including foreigners, and the gummint will borrow and spend. Happy days are here again. Still, it seems like a lot of money, even with an electronic printing press.


Standard Crew, I still remember when Glassman ran for city council on a "skeptical of Godfrey" campaign, then turned Godfreyite after he was elected and Godfrey gave him cushy job with the city.

The quote I liked was he had "seen the accomplishments of this mayor, and they are vast."

It's too bad Godfrey forgot to list any of his vast list of accomplishments in his editorial. Ooops. I guess there aren't any.

But his delusions are still just as vast.

Old saw said...

or half vast

thank you said...

Good one Rudi!!! Keep em comming.

ozboy said...

Well "Standard" and "Danny", I've known Bill G. for many years and I seriously doubt that he is "Blaine Carl" who has been posting here lately. I think Bill got so trashed here on the WCF, unfairly in my opinion, that he most likely doesn't read it anymore. I know I wouldn't if I were him.

As to Blaine Carl, I think he has added a lot to the recent discussions here on the WCF. He obviously has a deep understanding of the workings of the biz development department that we all have such fun ridiculing, and I think that his insider knowledge has been informative. I rather suspect that he is one of the top dogs in that department. It has even been suggested to me that he might even be Pure Heart Patterson!

Although I appreciate learning some new stuff about these development matters from BC, I also completely disagree with the accolades he throws to Godfrey. As any one who reads this blog more than a few times knows, I completely and thoroughly detest Godfrey and believe him to be a Son of Perdition, a complete incompetent and as dishonest as a used car hustler negotiating with a hooker.

Blaine Carl said...

Ogden & the Railroad
Part I
Some history

What happened to Ogden and the railroad industry in Ogden was mostly due to a place called the “North Platt Hump Yards.” But first, a little Ogden railroad history:

From the day the Golden Spike was driven, it seemed that Ogden was the logical place for a large scale switchyard. It was the junction place between trains coming from and going to the East, through Weber Canyon, coming from or going to the West, across the Great Salt Lake Desert, or heading North or South. It was the perfect rail hub, and thus Ogden was knick-named, “Hub City.” The Ogden yards grew until the yards became the largest switching hub between Chicago and the West Coast. Over 60 passenger trains a day pulled into the yards’ Union Depot and the number of freight trains exceed that over two-fold.

The Ogden Yards slope downhill from the South (Riverdale) to the North (21st Street, where the D&RGW joins them). Were a boxcar to somehow get loose in Riverdale, if not caught it would exceed 60 mph by the time it hit 21st Street; and that’s happened! The Southern Pacific was located in the North yards, The Union Pacific in the Central yards, the Icehouse between 33rd Street and Riverdale, with both the SP and the UP having gigantic “Roundhouses” to maintain their steam and diesel powered locomotives. The Icehouse was a huge ice making plant that sent 40 lb blocks of ice over conveyor belts built on trestles that were the height of the boxcars. The Icehouse was removed after engine powered refrigerator cars appeared in the 70s, about the same time that these new “bar codes” started to appear on the car sides, replacing the cardboard car tags that identified where the car was heading. The railroad was entering the “computer age.”

Besides the SP, UP and Icehouse tracks, there was the “Balloon,” circular track where engines could go around to head back out the opposite way they came in. There were maintenance tracks, Depot tracks, holding tracks and sidings. More than 2000 miles of railroad track filled the Ogden yards. Four (4) main switch shanties housed the switch jobs, jobs that “shook out” trains that had just come in and then built trains that were to go out. These jobs also worked the local industries, places like Swift and Wilson Meat Packing, Utah Coal, the old Ogden Cannery (now, the American Can), the Ogden Iron Works, the many sugar and floor mills on the West side of town (there are 2 there now), the Amalgamated Sugar Factory, where mountains of sugar beets were piled high, awaiting shipping and processing, and other businesses such as Pierce and Del Monte packing, again located just West of the yards. Each shanty ran from 3 to 5 switch jobs, each job consisting of a diesel engine (goat) manned by a hog-head (engineer), a fireman, and three switchmen: the foreman, he gave the orders he got from the “Dinger,” an official who surveyed all from his seat in one of the many towers that dotted the yards; the pin puller (he threw the switches to get the goat onto the correct rail and also pulled the pins that undid the couplers that held the cars together); and the field man, the guy who walked the cut of cars to put them together, or to set out a car if it were in the wrong place, hooked up the air hoses to finally make up a train.

Blaine Carl said...

Part I con’t

“Herders” lined the trains in and out of the yards and unhooked the power (engines) to either take them to the roundhouses or put them back in service on another train that had been assembled. Carmen walked the trains, tagging cars, oiling journal boxes, and supplying the cabooses (the caboose was used back then and held 2 to 3 crewmen, with 2 up front on the engine combined with the engineer and fireman). Gandy dancers repaired the tracks when needed. All this went on 3 shifts a day, 365 days a year. It was a veritable beehive of activity, a community unto itself, sort of like a land locked aircraft carrier, always moving, always bustling: trains coming in and going out; switch engines and crews moving cars, tearing trains apart and putting them together, yardmen and Gandy Dancers making repairs to tracks and switches and filling the “Non-sweating Adlake Lamps”with kerosene and then lighting them to mark where the switches were. The cost in man power was staggering, not to mention fuel, material and equipment. The most surreal time was the graveyard shift, around 3 a.m., when one could look at the darkened Wasatch Mountains, lit to a soft glow by moonlight, while working in the middle of all this mechanical, lighted chaos. I often wondered if the people sleeping in town really knew all that was going on in the yards: trains coming in and out, cars being switched and crashing into each other, men prowling over them like so many ants, ice being stuffed into the car’s ice boxes, whistles, etc. One of the great sights and sounds was a 120 car freight train, with 4-5 engines on the front (including the old steam locomotive called the “Big Blow”) and 3-4 “slave units” in the middle. Like a huge transport airplane lifting into the air, it was hard to imagine that this much tonnage could really be pulled up that canyon. It was actually a romantic kind of life and if one got out on the main line, on a train, it was even better.

Ogden was indeed a railroad capital, the yards being run by the Ogden Union Rail & Depot Company (the OUR&D Co.), overseen by Roland Bills, who only answered to the bigs at the Sp (San Francisco/Sacramento) and UP (Omaha).

Blaine Carl said...

Part II

Then, in the early 70s, something happened. It effected the railroad just like the computer industry effected the clerk/typist industry and robotics effected the Detroit assembly lines. It was automation, technology, progress, and it reduced manpower and equipment, and thus the costs thereof. And it all began in a place called the Omaha/North Platt HumpYards. The hump yard was a novel idea: built like a saucer, the ends of the yard was elevated above its middle. Where it used to take several crews of 5 men to switch out a cut of cars and rebuild that cut into trains, it now took 1 crew of maybe 3 men….the goat would pull the car cut to the end of the yard, the pin puller would uncouple the car to be moved onto a designated rail, the car would roll toward the center of the yard and be switched into the right rail electronically by the “Dinger,” a man sitting in a tower overlooking the whole affair (the Adlake Lamp was now replaced by a metal, circular target-if you happen to have an old Adlake, you indeed have a very valuable antique). By working both sides of the hump yard, trains could be dismantled and rebuilt in a matter of hours, not shifts, and the North Platt Yards were centralized more-so than the Ogden yards. So, the old mainstays like the Ogden Yards, Cheyenne, Las Vegas and East L.A. basically disappeared, with the freight being lined up around Omaha.

Prior to that, however, the passenger trains felt the same sting as the Ocean Liners: the airplane. People could move further and faster through the air than on rail or water. I don’t know if anything replaced those gorgeous ocean liners, but the government replaced the passenger trains with Amtrak, now just a mere shadow of its former self.

Once the demise of the railroad as Ogden knew it occurred, industry also left and these once proud rail hubs were reduced to vacant, polluted land with not much to fill the void. Gone was the bustle of the Union Station, the baggage/mail department, the laundry building, the 25th Street hotels, eateries and bars that supported the railroad industry. Gone were the meat packers and canneries and iron works, for the spurs that fed them were no more and these corporate conglomerates combined their many small companies into the large monoliths that today fill Chicago and Los Angeles. And, of course, they have the major rail lines to serve them. When industry leaves, due to the loss of the railroad in our case, then businesses and jobs leave, and finally, the people leave—to search for jobs.

This is what happened to the railroad in Ogden and Ogden itself, and I don’t think that anyone here today could have done much about it. Not Godfrey, not Geiger, not Disgusted, not Curmudgeon, not me….no one. It happened. Progress got the railroad and it has never, really, been replaced. It was devastating to our City.

Blaine Carl said...

Part III
The P.S.

The Southern Pacific, after years of pulling their trains around the Northern tip of the Great Salt Lake, calculated that if they cut could across the lake, the savings in fuel over the next 100 years would be enormous, and it would support the cost of building and maintaining said “cutoff.” So was born the idea of the Lucin Cutoff, that old wooden trestle that cut across the lake and would carry trains over it for years to come.

In the 70s and 80s, that grand, old, wooden trestle was eventually replaced by the Causeway, a rock built cutoff that trains now use to cross over the lake today (I’ve heard that the railroads either use or are contemplating a different route to Carlin, when heading West).

This same money saving mind set was what gave rise to the North Platt Hump Yards and other automation, progress that doomed the Ogden Yards. And set our City back for decades.

RudiZink said...

Bejeebus, Carl! For a few hours there we all feared the cat had gotten your tongue.


Wm III said...

I started wondering if there was going to be a pee stop somewhere along Mr Carl's history trip ...

Gotta give him props though ...

The post was interesting, insightful, and seemed factual ...

Nice beat and easy to dance to ... I'll give him a 98 ...

Blaine Carl said...

No cst here, Mr. Zink....chanced upon Planet Earth last night and was too done in after the 3 episodes to post my RR piece on your blog.

A little nervous about the 3-4 parts, though, but what the hey, the story needed to be told. Tough to replace something as major as a railroad, and everything else that went with it to where ever they went.

Thanks for the blog--it's insightful, even if some think it's more important to guess who I am than to know who I am and to read my message into my words.

As we once said"This could be fun;" and it is. I'll be brief in the future.


monotreme said...

Blaine Carl:

I've been very busy.

As others have pointed out, those who disagree with the Mayor do not need to identify alternatives.

I could toss off a snappy response like, "oh, start actually following the law" and be about 95% of where I think the city needs to go.

Still, I feel the need to respond to your challenge.

The main failing of the Godfrey administration has been his denigration and demonization of Weber State University.

I disagree with your premise that the "medical" field (actually, a number of related fields) is the exclusive purview of the U of U and Salt Lake hospitals associated with it.

I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I think that WSU is now #9 in the nation in the number of nursing graduates produced.

I know this isn't very High Adventure, but it is a linchpin of our economy.

I could go on and on with the slings and arrows that WSU has had to suffer, but you probably well know the story.

I'll challenge you back. Name one positive thing Mayor Godfrey or his winged monkeys has said about WSU.

I'll be here when you find it.

Jennifer Neil said...

As Blaine pointed out earlier in this post, alternatives are wanted instead of (in addition to?) all the complaining.
I spoke of one alternative being the upcoming Municipal Primary Election -- and an chance to fill four Seats on the City Council with people that will work to do what is right for the citizens.
I got a phone call today from a Random Citizen ... he said I was the first candidate he actually got on the phone ... he said he was glad to be able to ask me questions ... I told him about My Blog ... he said he didn't have the internet, but he has a phone and he was using it.

Thank you Random Citizen,

Jennifer Neil

p.s. we can learn something here from Mr. Random Citizen ...

ozboy said...

Great story Blaine. Brought back a few memories of my own from when I worked the extra board in the Ogden yards. I was going to Weber College in those days - before this "State" business was added to the name. I almost always worked nights being I was pretty low on the seniority list. Those yards were pretty magical and complex and I was always amazed at how the old timers knew where every spur in every yard was. And to make it even more complicated each yard was completely different than the others.

I remember once there was a long loaded train coming in from the north and I was working a crew at the 21st street yard. The incoming train was only going about 2 miles an hour at that point. We were switching some cars out just to the west of the main line and the foreman gave me a signal to throw a switch for a car he had just kicked toward me. There were several switches very close to each other and I made a mistake and threw the wrong one which directed a flat car loaded with big rolls of steel right into the main line and into th eside of a box car full of grain. It split that car wide open and spread grain all over the place. It also derailed three more cars that were in front of and in back of the car that got hit.

We caught holy hell from the yard master all the way up to old RO Bills himself. By the way, I never ran into any one working the yards that liked Bills, did you? I of course was pretty low on the totem pole and didn't really know him, but all the old timers did and always had a lot of bad stuff to say about him while we were sitting around the switching shacks between building and tearing down trains.

Anyway, I got a week suspension is all for my major screw up but they didn't fire me because the union stood up for me at the hearing.

Nothing like a miserable, cold snowy night working the graveyard shift in the Riverdale yard with the numbing wind blowing out of Weber canyon to give me plenty of reason to study them text books up at Weber the next day!

Blaine Carl said...

Nice story yourself, Ozboy. I do believe that working the railroad does give one a kick in the ass to do something else in life, or he's apt to be stuck there till retirment. And climbing on and off boxcars, tying down flats loaded with rolled steel, would be kind of rough on a guy in his 50s or 60s. Incidentally, if memory serves correct, a loaded grain hopper weighs more than a flat car of rolled steel. I remember having grain hoppers kicked toward me and when they came to a complete stop you could keep them where you were with a small piece of wood wedged between a wheel and the track. But if they started to roll back, even "inching" their way back, you couldn't stop 'em with a piece of 4 X 4 redwood beam. It was climb and tie 'em down time. Ah yes, field work does make college courses seem much more palatable.

And Wm III, thanks for your kind words and review. I especially liked the "nice beat and easy to dance to" part, and I'm sure Dick Clark smiled at that as I know he reads this blog.

All in all, I had some fun reflecting on the past and hopefully portraying the real deal on the railroads Ogden demise.

Blaine Carl said...

Ozboy, in reference to "red" Bills, no, I can't remember many old timers who really liked him. Some of us young bucks did because we hung out with his son, Robert, who was a pretty good guy, and who got us our jobs. Red was one tough, no nonsense son of a bitch who didn't suffer fools, but then I suppose one takes on that venacular when one rises from the ranks and becomes Superintendant. Maybe his buddies were miffed because they were still out in the Yards, tying down boxcars, while good old RO was sitting in his office or playing an occassional round of golf.

Anyway, that was quite the place back in "them good old days."

And for Monotreme, I agree with you that the Mayor hasn't had much positive things to say about WSU, ever since it decided to not sell its land to the City for Peterson's gondola/ski resort/housing development. I can't remember you and I ever broaching this, however. As far as WSU being #9 nationally in nursing grads, that's terrific. WSU, even when it was WSC, has always been a national leader in the field of nursing. But my premise is the medical community as a whole. If you come down with cancer or some other dreaded disease, where do you go? To a nursing college or to the U of U Medical Center and all the collateral institutions like the Huntsman Center that surround it. Comon, Monotreme, you SHOULD know what I'm talking about and the difference thereof.

I do remember Godfrey saying that the City should have a better ongoing relationship with WSU regarding the Eccles Conference Center and the aspects of Continuing Education, but I agree, he really hasn't gotten out there and supported the university like he should. A city the size of Ogden would do well to better associate itself with a university such as Weber State. It would be a definite plus.

Also, no, you don't need to offer alternatives when you disagree with Godfrey. But it would be nice to get some idea of from where some of you guys are coming from and HOW you'd better Ogden economically. Just a thought.

Jersey Jim said...

"Also, no, you don't need to offer alternatives when you disagree with Godfrey. But it would be nice to get some idea of from where some of you guys are coming from and HOW you'd better Ogden economically."

Here's an alternative, dumbass! Godfrey, whose last successful long-paying gig was a job as a pizza delivery boy, should resign his Mayoral job right now, and get back to doing what he does best, delivering pizza.

After this little corporate welfare right wing socialist is banished from government, we can then get on the the task of rebuilding our city.

How's that for the suggestion of an alternative which would better Ogden economically, eh, Mr. Dumb Ass?

Blaine Carl said...

Jersey JIM, that was a really nice and MATURE response you just posted. "Mr. Dumb Ass!" "Delivering pizza." "right wing socialist banished from government, we can then get on the task of rebuilding the city."

Gee-Zust, JJ, with your ability to put thoughts into words, you should get into politics. Or maybe phone up some corporation and try talking to the CEO the same way you write and I'm positive that the CEO would want to relocate in Ogden. With your mind set, and your ability to word your thoughts, you could become one hell of a recruiter for the City that everyone would pay attention to. Calling people "Dumb ass" is just what they're looking for. I'm absolutely positive that someone with your vocabulary, and your ability to put your thoughts into words that offer such a dignified, adult-type response, will rally the people behind you and take you as being a very serious and articulate individual, indeed.

You flat embarass yourself, dude!

Probably better to not waste anyone's time, or this space, if you can't produce better posts than you just did or by my responding to your written garbage. I was hoping for dignified discussion, not school yard trash talk, but then....

Where do people like you come from? It's no wonder me, and many others, probably from both sides, why nobody takes guys like you seriously....

Ray Vaughn said...

Blaine Carl & Jersey Jim. While I agree that calling names does no one any good what else do you expect. The city has lured much business to the city by offering bribes or as some call it "financial incentives" Talking rationally and calmly to the mayor does not have much of a positive track record. He seems only to hear the voices that agree with him and his vision. When proper policy is followed he refuses to accept the out come(veto override) Despite overwhelming public outcry he still seems hellbent on selling the golf course and building a gondola. Since reasonable polite discussion has no impact why is anyone surprised when name calling begins.

Joe, your Right Wing Socialist, Jones said...

Mr. Vaughan, I would say that the City lures business to Ogden through "business negotiation," rather than through bribes. "Business incentives" are common place throughout this genre, and I'm sure that even you have negotiated on an item or two (your mortgage, the sales price of something you need yet found to be more than you thought), so your premise doesn't hold water, let alone excuse to juvenile tendencies of some for name calling, flaming, etc.

I've read your posts, Mr. Carl's post, Ozboy's posts, Monotreme's posts, Disgusted's posts (even though they're fraught with grammatical error), Curmudgeeon's posts, and this clown (using his terminology) Jersey Jim's posts. It's obvious to see who the real "dumb ass" is.

I thought objective of the blog was to stimulate passionate argument, good discussion, a sharing of ideas, and discourse, where people could agree or disagree in a decent way. I didn't think it was a place that emulates a school yard, where obviously this Jim Jersey guy had his ass kicked on a regular basis and could use a good beating now.

Bill C. said...

Oh Joe, this is a blog, almost anything anyone feels like saying gets on, almost.
Now you may want the conversation to follow the more familiar tone of say a quilting bee, but it aint gonna happen.
If your sensitivities prohibit you from being able to interpret someones point, the problem is yours.
Now that you've been indoctrinated on Robert Hunter, here's some more of his words you may want to ponder." Once in a while you get shone the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right".
Robert Hunter.

RWS Joe Jones said...

Oh hell, Bill the Golfer, I'm not that sensitive....I can swing as good or better than the next guy. I just thought that this blog was a more mature place so that good, quality discussion could occur. But when the only thing some of you people write is absurd insults and names I just gotta call ya on it. That shit (you like that language?) doesn't resolve a thing and, as you've been scolded a couple of times yourself, you only diminishe your position, no matter how cute you try to get on your parsed out come backs.

Get real, grow up, and post something we can get our teeth into instead of rationalizing all this BS!

As for Robert Hunter....I'm glad he's you little guru and not mine. Both of you were wrong when it came to the lyrics of Casey Jones, anyway. Can't get that right, even trying to be quotation cool.

Keisha said...

Don't be such a fuddy-duddy, Mr. Right Wing Socialist Joe.

Half the fun of Weber County Forum is the entertainment value.

Let your hair down once in a while, old buddy.

Nothing's worse than an old fart with his panties in a bunch.

Here's my advice: Go with the flow.

RWS Joe Jones said...

I'll go along with that, Keisha. And I can have as much fun as anyone. But it's the insults that replace knowledge that gets me. You don't see the kind of inane, vacuous garbage being written my Mono, Curm, Ozboy, Zink, Vaughan or that group. Usually this kind of junk comes from guys like Bill C and Jim Whatever and is written to deflect the message because that's all they have in their mental arsenal. These guys have a hard time tying their shoes, let alone making a good substantial argument on the blog.

There's some "hair down" for ya!

Bill C. said...

Check the link Joe, I'm sure that Jerry is singing exactly what I wrote....
As for the rest of your bull shit, let me know when you find an inaccuracy in one of my posts.
So far you and your alternate alias haven't successfully answered one straight forward question, you love the lying little rodent yet act as if you're surprised when any of his dishonesty, crookedness and outright illegality is factually exposed.
Bad judgement on behalf of a public official is one thing, outright lying thousands of times should not be excused.
Obviously you have a lower standard or different interpretation of morality regarding public officials than the majority of folks in these parts.
But it's all right, I guess.

Tim McIlrath said...

If you're not angry, then you're not paying attention.

Bill C. said...

Oh, and regarding the original topic, the little lying mayor has used another form of dishonesty that has yet to recieve mention here.
Way down the list is the topic of Crime. The lying little guy tries to make some case that his silly high adventure makeover will pay for the much needed extra police that can eventually clean up this town.
Just a thought but I recall that for at least the last 5 years, maybe more, he has employed 15 to 20 less officers than the Council has budgeted for.
I also have it on good inside info that our very own local institution of higher learning graduates all kinds of worthy candidates for those positions, with degrees that say so, every year.

Joe RWS Jones said...

Bill C., I already pointed out an inaccuracy--the lyrics to Casey Jones. If your can't get those right, what else can't you get right?

As for political morality, I don't support lying and underhandedness. I challenge you to find one word in my posts that suggests I do. Many of Godfrey's initiatives are sneaky and scurilous, but not all. My premise to to point out that EVERYTHING is not always as it seems and there are alternatives that I'd like to see suggested instead of this insufferable whinning about Godfrey. Hell, we know that, as this constant barrage of reminders has done NOTHING to prevent these administrative actions. I'm wondering if there's another way? Maybe not, but it's obvious that all of your bitching and moaning has accomplished NAUGHT!

Keisha, it's interesting to note that a few weeks ago, when I first started to post, Mr. RudiZink was telling me that being YOUNG and new to the blog was the reason that I was catching a little hell from people. Now here you are, telling me I'm an old fart with his panties in a bunch.

Do any of you know which is it? Does it really matter? Naw, I think not. It is, after all, using Bill C's words, a blog (but a damn good one that provides much entertainment).

Oh yeah, one other thing, did you happen to consider that just maybe I AM HAVING FUN with some of you people? A few of you are certainly easy to rile up;
but I believe that in order to catch this, you (not you in particular-you seem somewhat savy) have to be on a more intellectual level than clowns like this Bill the Golfer guy, Citizen and Jersey Jim.

Bill C. said...

Well idiot joe, you've never offered any alternative to anything. All you've done is jump in and try to demean or attack someone when your alter alias blind blain gets his tit in a wringer.
Seems that neither one of you has been right heretofore.
You know, inellectually speaking, if you use two alias you may find it difficult to recall which one said what. As you just have regarding the posting of what you thought were the lyrics to Casey Jones. That was posted as Blain Carl, not idiot joe.

RWS Joe Jones said...

Clown Bill, what I did was answer YOUR question of pointing out one of your inaccuracies. I did, by mentioning that you couldn't even get the lyrics to Casey Jones right. I too happened to read both articles. Maybe you should re-read your words and mine. Duh!

And here you go again, just name calling and trying to stir stuff up without any substance other than name calling. You're a bigger joke than you claim others to be.

And good for BC. He seems to have many of you stirred up. I think what he's asking is what has YOUR due diligence been when you point all these accusing fingers at good people?

Bill C. said...

Give it up ass-clown. Take a big dose of geiger and go sit in a plastic chair on Grant ave. and smoke dope with the rest of those high adventure contestents at the jib-jib.
You contribute nothing here, plus your smack sucks. Get some new material. Blain/joe idiot what ever you call yourself, equine fecal matter most likely.

Bill C. said...

Oh and joe, maybe you can tell us how many cops we're short as opposed to what budgeted for?

Blaine Carl said...

Real classy posting, Bill C. No wonder nobody downtown takes you seriously. I think, and agree, with Mr. RWS Jones that he was correct when he mentioned something about a mental arsenal that lacks any fire power.

Your above posts are the proof. An empty headed simpleton grasping at vulgarities.

Bill C. said...

The only thing vulgar is who and what you support. How you can rationalize supporting a pathelogical liar and those responsible for doing his dirty work is something you'll have to sort out in your own mind someday, if you have any assemblance of a conscience.
How many time now have you had to admit the dishonesty, lying and methods of you hero? You try to support and promote yet at the very same time you attempt to disassociate yourself from the guy.
Your moral compass, if you have one, must be spinning 100 mph.

RWS Joseph Jones said...

Well Billie, isn't it obvious that you're my hero?

Finally-yes FINALLY-a post of yours that isn't laced with vulgarities, even though it makes no sense what-so-ever.

Dude, you are a real treat! Glad I started to read this blog and found some childish entertainment. That purple dinosaur was getting boring and needed to be replaced--you the man, er "kid"--whatever.

I gotta leave now. There's no reason to waste time on you doing this anymore. You don't even need to reply. Goodness, "what a
long, strange trip it has been."

drewmeister said...

Nah, we're not condescending in the least here.. The self-righteous antics of godfrey lemmings is breathtaking. Yeah, Bill, how dare you express an opinion different than the mayor? Why, someone ought to take you to a gondola and talk some sense into you.

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