Saturday, August 08, 2009

There Are No Words To Describe The Following:

Is anyone minding the store at the Federal Reserve?

By Ozboy

Check this video out if you want a real cold shiver up and down your spine!

Click the highlighted link for further information.

Mayor Godfrey and his flying monkeys are not the only incompetents in gummint!


Rockford J. said...


Godfrey only wishes he could get a horde of flying monkeys to serve him and to act on his bidding,
but he is not able to keep even one on his staff.

Flying monkeys only submit to humans if the humans plans are sound, effective, and certain to succeed.

Flying monkeys are far too smart to get sucked into acting on Godfreys behalf.

Or so they tell me.

sammy glick said...


What do you call that circle of incompetent and empty suits da mayooor surrounds himself with? Flying cockroaches perhaps??

Danny said...

I've seen that video.

I mentioned previously that our country has been taken over by oligarchs. The gummint is being run by them, for them, regardless of the party in charge.

The woman in this video was given the job because she is a kiss up. Of course she has no idea.

We can only hope that when things get bad enough, good people will finally run for national office and win.

When the only choice we have is between people like Obama and McCain, there is no way to do other than lose.

If people think the economy is coming back, somebody should tell the railroads who continue to report poor traffic. Store sales also continue to fall.

Rail Traffic

But big NY financial companies are doing great. They can borrow money from the government at 0%. Can you? Can your business? Well gee, ain't that too bad, son.

watch your back said...

I read this moronic A.P. story in the SE today. Despite all the other overwhelming economic evidence to suggest that the world economy is becoming even more deeply mired in the worst economic crisis in modern history, the national news sources/government cheerleaders still cling to those few "rays of hope" which might suggest that the modern economies of the world are not now "completely screwed."

Here's a more useful counterpoint to the above A.P. story:

Entering the Greatest Depression in History

Wake up, people!

The national (and local) media are softpedaling this problem which we're in up to our eyeballs.

Make sure you own plenty of Guns, Food Storage and Gold!

The next few years won't be "pretty," people.

Machster said...

But whatever happened to Obama's promise to run the most transparent administration in history?

His birth certificate (not "Certificate of Live Birth" which is a different thing all together) is still not available. And what we are reading for ourselves about Obamacare is not only insulting - it is an embarrassment to common dignity and reasonable people everywhere.

Now this "report any fishy information" to the whitehouse is showing what the mentally defective liberal element has slowly and methodically advanced upon our once great Nation.

The list of outrageous executive orders, legislation, and proposed legislation continues to grow. We don't want a revolution in America. But these continued assaults upon our freedoms, dignity, intelligence and individual liberty have to stop. And they have to stop very soon before we all have to line up for a hotel room in Belise.

(This is a "fishy" blog input. Please feel free to report it and me to the Whitehouse and trash which now apparently inhabit it.)

R. Grant said...

If you have sufficient firepower, the other two "needs" are better off stored by your neighbors, until needed.

This keeps you mobile and unencumbered by tons of food and bars of gold.
This I learned by watching Mad Max films:
when you observe your neighbors obliviously going about their daily lives, buying unnecessary household items as though these items were not going to be camp fire fuel in just a scant few months, think: is this person an ally, a dinner, or a quick improvised shelter in inclement weather.

Roughly 90 percent of American and European humans would not last a month without a refrigerator, an automobile, or a hospital.

The good part of all of this "resetting" of the economy: people who can work hard and tend to plan ahead will be mostly OK.
The bad part: work camps, pyramids built over the bodies of dead oligarchs and knowing that there are 2500 years of New World Order yet to play out. Regardless, the Day of the Great Killing will be a difficult period to address in future history texts.
Probably mostly about the New Pharaohs, with little written about anyone else.

ozboy said...


I generally agree with your take on things, however this business about Obama's foreign birth seems to have been dispelled a number of times.

If Obama truly was born in Kenya, or wherever else the conspiracy theorists think, then don't you think the Mormon Church, the greatest genealogists in history - and ultra conservative Republicans to boot, would have provided the proof of that by now? The naybobs of the Church just gave him his genealogical history, don't you think the truth of where he was born would have been in it? I also understand that the state of Hawaii has confirmed he was born there - no?

What are the differences between a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth? You seem to indicate that there is some major hidden difference that would make a big difference in this issue.

watch your back said...

Yes, R. Grant. "sufficient firepower," together with "sufficient continuing voluntary community organization," will be the only factors which might ward off lawless looting, once the shit hits the fan -- as it inevitably will.

The US government has already anticipated this upcoming problem, of course

Curmudgeon said...

You guys need to watch more congressional hearings.

She said, repeatedly, that her office had a review underway of what he was asking about. He wanted her to say it was an "investigation" and she refused, saying "review" instead, noting that "investigation" had other connotations. She did not say "we're ignoring this."

He also wanted her to respond to an article she had not seen, and to off-book losses at the Fed that the article reported. She replied that until the review currently under way by her office was completed and she had hard and fast numbers to give him, she couldn't answer with specifics, especially since she hadn't seen the article.

This was a sparing match between an antagonistic congressman looking to make headlines, and a bureaucrat. She realy had no way to win. She could either have responded to figures she did not know to be so [because the review underway was not complete], which would have been foolish of her, or she could have said "I don't know because haven't finished our review of the program yet." Which she did, leaving him to start braying about nobody watching the store.

This sort of thing goes on all the time and signifies, by itself, not much. If the Congressman was really looking for answers instead of air time, he would have messaged her before she appeared, referenced the Bloomberg article, and told her I intend to ask you if the looses reported in it are accurate and whether you're office was and is aware of them, and, presuming the numbers are accurate, if your office is investigating how these off-book losses were allowed to happen."

He didn't. He wasn't after answers or hard information. He was after headlines. He was playing "gotcha!"

pissed said...

Government incompetence is totally revealed. The bitch who's supposed to know where the trillion dollars went has absolutely NO CLUE!

Thanks for the wakeup call, ozboy

ozboy said...

She seemed like a clueless political hack to me Mr. Curmudgeon.

Just another unqualified bumbler that our man Obama has installed throughout the government. You would think that a guy as glib as he would put more emphasis on appointing people that at least can play to the camera's as well as the grand standing guy that was grilling her. It was a congressional hearing with cameras for hell's sake, don't you think any kind of competent pro would have anticipated this line of hostile questioning and at least showed up with a tiny bit of preperation?

The whole game in Washington is one of "gotcha" and this ditz shows up at a hearing full of TV camera's and stumbles around like a deer in the headlights! You would think that with a trillion dollars being at the heart of the questions she would be at least a tiny bit informed on the subject, which she obviously wasn't. I mean she is the IG of the damn outfit, she should have known enough to at least sound remotely competent.

If this person is indicative of the people Obama has put at the levers of government all I can is God help us one and all.

Daryl said...


What do you suppose this woman thought was going to be discussed at this hearing, cake recipes? There must have been an agenda describing that the topic of the hearing was about a missing trillion dollars. The IG of any major governmental agency doesn't go to these hearings to discuss home keeping tips. If she didn't know she was going into a hostile environment about a missing trillion, then that alone would be an indication of incompetence.

Our president should not be sending people to gun fights armed only with a sling shot. I do hope that he does better in the future with who he sends to do battle with the republican spoil sports who are gunning for him.

Danny said...

Curmudgeon apparently never watched to old TV show, Hogan's Heroes.

At least when Sgt. Schultz said "I know nothing. NOTH-ING!" it was always funny.

Of course, HE was supposed to look like a moron. SHE was supposed to be the bureaucrat who would be able to answer the very questions she was being asked.

So if not her, then whom? Who knows where the Fed has sent $2 trillion dollars?

But yeah, Curm. She just wasn't ready to answer the question at that time (video taken some time ago.) Well how about today? Who can answer the question today?

At least the bankers are being salted with trillions to con us. What are you in it for, Curm?

Danny said...

Watch Your Back posted something that referred to the "Bailout Bubble", meaning the gummint has now created a final bubble that, when it pops, will unleash a financial holocaust that no gummint will be able to prevent. I liked it.

In exchange, I offer this article from the Mogambo Guru.

Actual Prices in Gold

It shows that most things have gone DOWN in price. You'd expect that, since civilization should make things get cheaper.

Why does it seem like things have gotten more expensive? Well look at the average wage in gold:

Average Income per year $10,600 or 302 oz. gold in 1971, versus $70,000 or 77 oz. gold today.

We've lost 3/4 of our average income in this country in 37 years!

No longer can a man support a family with a factory job - not even close. Pension, health care, good wages are all gone.

When CEOs get paid in eight figures, where do people think that money comes from?

It's all according to plan. The oligarch parasites have almost bled the economy dry. Now, watch as the dried husk dies.

These will be momentous times.

Curmudgeon said...

Oz and Daryl And Danny:

I don't know if she's good at her job or not, Oz. I have no information about that. But I'd rather, as we navigate the wreckage of the economy and banking mess eight years of Republican rule gave us, have someone in her job who was good at the job rather than someone who was glib before cameras, if that's the choice I have to make. [Both would be nice, but the most competent people are not always the most telegenic.]

And,Daryl, you're simply assuming she had prior knowledge that the Bloomberg story would be a major subject of inquiry by the committee. I doubt that . Her inquisitor, please note, made no mention of "you knew we were going to ask about this." Not once. I do note that you've decided that a trillion dollars is "missing." And you ignore, as did her questioner, her reporting, repeatedly, that her office was conducting a review that would enable her to answer his questions. Whether a trillion dollars is "missing" I have no idea. I do note that the Bloomberg story [according to her questioner; I haven't read it] didn't say it was missing. It said it represented losses the Fed had taken on its loans. Not good, but hardly "missing." [I took a bath on my IRA when the market crashed. Real losses. But the money isn't "missing."]

The Congressman may be right about everything he said. I don't know. I merely said that the little game of "gotcha!" he staged, including his pique at her refusal to call a program review an "investigation" and his repeatedly ignoring her telling him that a review of the program was under way by her office, tells us little or nothing by itself. Nor does it mean "nobody's watching the store" at the Fed. By itself, this little sparring match you all find so much meaning in means, I think, little.

As for Danny's question: "She just wasn't ready to answer the question at that time (video taken some time ago.) Well how about today? Who can answer the question today?"

I don't know, Danny. Has the review been completed? Has the Fed replied to the Committee since the taping? Is there a due date for the review and report? If so, has the date passed? I don't know. I suspect you don't either.

The only thing I'm pretty sure of, from the video, is the the Congressman on that day wasn't looking for information. He was looking for air time.

Southsider said...


You characterize her as "Just another unqualified bumbler that our man Obama has installed throughout the government."

That Obama must be something "installing" her almost two years before he took office. Now there's a conspiracy for you.

Release Date: May 4, 2007

For immediate release

The Federal Reserve Board on Friday announced the appointment of Elizabeth A. Coleman as Inspector General for the Board, effective May 6.

Curmudgeon said...


You wrote: "When CEOs get paid in eight figures, where do people think that money comes from?...The oligarch parasites have almost bled the economy dry."

If you're looking for an argument about that statement from me, you're looking in the wrong place, compadre.

Curmudgeon said...

Nice catch, Southsider!

Bill C. said...

My dear buddies Machster and Danny, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but, the only money that went totally unaccounted for was handed out by Paulson under Bush.
To my knowlege this administration has at least documented where the money went. It's a totally different discussion about whether you agree with where it went, but this time it is known.

ozboy said...


Whoops, I sure screwed the goose on that rant - didn't I! A reminder of the old saying: "Engage brain before activating mouth". I will accept my twenty lashes at high noon in front of the Solomon Center, please cook the noodles well before administering said lashes.

and Mr. Curmudgeon

You may not think your IRA is missing, but I bet you will be missing your IRA about the time you were counting on it.

As it pertains to telegenic -vs- competence, I submit that in today's political world officials damn well better have both if they are going to make it. Not only is today's politics about the "gotcha" thing, it is also about winning the hearts and minds of the hoi polloi and that is primarily done with TeeVee. I think that is why Obama got where he has, he is very bright (and I hope competent) and he has the TeeVee thing down pat. Unlike this woman in the video he can think on his feet and no way would be caught doing the old deer in the headlights trick like she did.

Machster said...

Oz, BYA (because you asked):
In: Law and Legal Issues [Edit categories]

Is a certification of live birth the same thing as a birth certificate? Answer: No, but the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual's birth.

There are two categories of documents used in determining eligibility [for Hawaiian Home Lands program]: primary and secondary.

Primary Documents

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual's birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person's birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

An elderly and wealthy family member in Texas paid for a geneology from the brethern in SLC. When compared to known written family records...well, lets just say the report fell far...very far from the truth.

As for the LDS version of Obama's family history..."when they reach a box canyon in their research, they simply choose any pathway and press ahead unincumbered by a normal view of right and wrong or conscience." It is part of and a benefit of being a Saint or Goddess afterall, as some admit. Something about lying for the... what is it?

My point previously on the blog post being simply, why hasn't the President of the United States simply provided his Birth Certificate, complete with all those cute little tiny feet prints and all? Why the big deal indeed if he is leading such a transparent administration?

And why is Ram Imaneul threatening States using our tax dollars (stimulus money) as his Chicago Mobster style (an Democratic playbook) tool? And why is Obama allowing his administration to put out threats to anyone who expresses opposition to his agenda (report anything fishy to the whitehouse)? (shades of Nixon!?) Lots to answer for with no answers coming...only threats, unconstitutional efforts to control opposition and honest debate/discourse and foolish attempts at intimidation (shades of the Clinton administration). If Obama is supposed to be so smart why do we not know his grades at Harvard? Seems to me we surely knew Bush and his Democratic opponent's...what is that guy's name?

Oh, and Bill C.; George W. Bush is gone. He failed in his terms to veto stupid, unnecessary, and expensive legislation and harness crazed liberals by exposing what they were doing to all of us. He is gone. Obama owns what is happening today and over the past 8to 10 months.

Please remove head from posterior.

As a symbolic gesture, I am tearing up my AARP membership card and going to the County building to change back to being an Independent (instead of a Democrat). You might also consider some similar gesture or ceremony of contempt toward what is happening all around us.

Much stronger gestures and protests will be needed unfortunately since the majority in Congress is not listening to the majority of our Countrymen and women. Sad. Very sad what they are setting us up for.

democrat said...

She's acting like a REPUBLICAN!!!

DAAAA which way did he go????

Rockford J. said...

Manchester said:

"..Obama...owns the last 10 months..."

"...why do we not know his grades at Harvard...?"

"...why hasn't the President of the United States simply provided his Birth Certificate..."

God bless our fine President in the difficult terrain he must negotiate, and protect him from the "911truth" wing of the Republican Party.

Bill C. said...

Machster, when do you suppose this hearing took place? There is no date. The questions are about the first biggie to belly up. All happened under Bush. Just because Bush is gone does not absolve him from his mess. Even Clinton can get some credit(?) for how insane our financial markets became. But you can't lay the blame for this mess on the guy that came along with the broom and dust pan because he was called to clean it up.
Point is, yes, it's now his mess, but that doesn't mean that it's of his making, it's not.

B. Springfield said...


Seems like you might have forgotten to take your meds. Better pop a few extras before they come to take you away.

As the old song goes:

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound Everybody look what's going down"

Machster said...

Interesting how Obama radicals and far left brain washed clowns always resort to attacking the messenger instead of dealing with the issues.

Happens Everytime...

And Bill. I agree with you completely. It started in the Clinton administration and Bush did nothing to fix the problems being caused by the left's insistance that everyone deserves a new home whether they can afford it or not. We have Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Levin, Pelosi, and Reid, among others, to thank for that also.

What we seem to have now is a crisis of credibility or at least a crisis of confidence in our Government. And the minor failings I mentioned do nothing to help in that regard.

And the crisis of confidence seems to have had its beginnings with tricky Dick and Watergate. Maybe even before that with Lyndon Bains Johnson and his Great Society. Except for the war JFK got us into, things seemed to have been going along just fine don't ya think?

But what the current administration is doing is just wrong on so many levels it is almost unbelieveable!

Bill C. said...

Machster, you even gotta cut Barney and his buddies a little slack, afterall our finacial system has become such a tangled mess that even the most astute, financial wizzards were paying a premium for bogus paper. Derivitives.
The fact that the finacial side of things got to 40% of our GDP should have caused alarms to go off. We can't eat bogus paper or make and fix things with it.
Danny's right in some regards about the oligarchy, the consolidation of wealth worldwide is disturbing, and there's been one great profitable spot for these folks to put their cash that's been almost the safest bet worldwide, greater than energy. The US healthcare system. Profits on profits on profits. When you go to a doctor or healthcare facility these guys profit all over the place, over and above their monthly rape of your premium. They get ya coming and going. They all ready make the decisions for you, which is the big right scare tactic. What doctor you can see, what types of procedure are allowed and what overpriced pharmaceutical product you will be afforded the privilege of paying for.
If all this concerns you, then you may want to think twice about Obama, after all, he's trying to hit them where it'll hurt them most. Healthcare is a great place to start.

Machster said...


As usual we agree, it seems.

I was only trying to point out that Obama doesn't seem to be going about it the right way.

First, given we agree that our Country has a "crisis of confidence" where we do not trust our own Government, our President should do the little things which show openness and transparency. Such as provide his Birth Cert., Harvard grades, etc. showing he meant it when he promised an open and credible administration.

Secondly, I said what the administration is doing is wrong on so many levels...

By this I mean...Obama has turned over the responsibility of drafting healthcare legislation to the whacky left (Pelosi, Reid, and the gang of nut cases from the far left). He likely did this based upon lessons learned passed on by his advisors and staff many of which are from the old Clinton admin. They learned through Hillary's failed attempt at healthcare reform that when Hillary/Bill drafted the legislation it was schredded by the lobbyists and those who they pay for influence within Congress.

So Obama "releases the hounds", lets the whacko's loose to draft the bill. Of course the result is all the hubbub and hysterical mad house which promises to continue well into September if not throughout the year.

So what do I think he should have done? Calmly set no timetable (another mistake in my own opinion) and allowed both sides of the isle to draft an agreeable reform. Not rejecting things like amendments to preclude abortion funded by tax money, and not hiding facts like half a Trillion being cut from Medicare in order to fund his broad and expensive ideas for healthcare reform. Little things like that. The House Bill is polluted with it.

There are so many ways to do healthcare reform correctly it almost boggles the mind. Why he chose this method - well he is human and humans are not perfect.

The only conclusion I can draw is that our President is rather obviously inexperienced at management and is relying too heavily on the Clintonesta's within his circle of influence.

What's your take on the situation? And of course we need reform of any system which is allowed to charge $50 for an asperin and $5 per Kleenex, and lab tests everyother month costing $450 to $750 each, emergency room visits for a single stetch costing $700, etc.

When the final reform bill is passed, hopefully very toned down but highly effective with choice of civilian doctors, not civil service doctors, etc. one thing is for certain. The medical community, has a whole, has brought this upon themselves due to patient abuse in every possbile way. Sure, we get great medical care in general...but far too high cost.

Bill C. said...

Well Machster, the option I think is best aint on the table. Single payer. This is the only real doable option if covering everyone and reducing the costs are the objectives.
This also needs to be coordinated with lots of public education and some type of rewards for staying healthy.
The biggest problems we face could be avoided by eating right, exersizing and cleaning up the air and water.
Aesma, obesity and diabetis should not be so common among our populace. Strick clean air standards are a must. Pre-prepared foods are also a killer along with soda pop and highly sugared foods, drinks and snacks.
Look at how the Drug industry operates. You the tax payer fund almost all the reasearch, studies and everything else thru tax dollars to Universities and grants so the Drug Companies upon approval can have a monopoly for decades to gouge the people for something they have all ready contributed to, but get no return on. And what pray tell are the biggest products, sedate the women and give the men erections.
I don't have alot of answers as to how it should work, but it works quite well with the public school systems. Granted you and I pay through the nose to provide education to everyone else's kids, while not taxing the system at all. But I don't hear such an up-roar over that, why healthcare?

Machster said...

Bill ent al, (response is in two posts due to length)

Sorry for the delay but had to mow the pasture. We have to disagree on the "single payer" healthcare reform option.
Why? Well, "single payer" is code for Goverment controlled healthcare. I hopefully will not bore you with the usual GOP or talk show talking point tripe. Rather, I'd like to respectfully submit to you that I have lived under a "single payer" or "Government controlled" healthcare system for 20 years.
And in that 20 years I personally experienced;
-doctors (called flight surgeons) who were unqualified and downright dangerous.
-had my sinus' diagnosed as cancer.
-had my knee-cap diagnosed as a cancerous tumor.
-had an operation for a split cartlege in my left knee, from an ejection injury, which seized up...but the finest at Weisbaden AB Hospital, West Germany and the largest military hospital in Europe, operated on the right knee by mistake.
-witnessed hundreds of orthopedic patients waiting in chairs which literally lined both sides of the hallways waiting to see a single doctor at the largest hospital in Weisbaden, WGR.
-had to listen to an anesthesiologist break into tears the night before my operation. The young Capt. was distraught over how grossly overworked and under staffed they were. And how they were going to kill someone, if not already,...a real confidence builder.
-lay in bed untreated for two days with the first three toes totally crushed by a TabVee door (rollers the size of railroad car wheels). In total agony while a "practice exercise" was going on with faux patients.
-had a lacerated finger spewing blood as an infirmary doctor dragged himself in from working on his lawnmower. With grease still on his hands he stabbed the finger straight through, without any deadening, just told my two friend to hold me down and pulled tight the noose he formed using what looked to be kite string. Now there's a "Civil Servant" doctor at a University Infirmary for you! I think he was also drunk.
I could go on Bill. But a single payer, e.g. Government run and controlled, healthcare system breeds incompetance, lures into it unqualifed "doctors" - some of which can not even speak English and with medical degrees from places like Addas Ababa or Bangladesh or Outer Slobovia. Government Committees who select these "doctors" can not, do not, and will not acknowledge nor discriminate or set standards or criteria for selection. To do so (to them) would mean career ending claims of "discrimination"..when that it precisely what is called for.
I have too many true stories which prove (at least to me) that a Government run or "single payer system" would doom us.
And I personally (although there are some who will no doubt disagree with me on this too) do not like many of the provisions of the House Draft Bill. Such as paragraph 1233, I think it is, that basically says our "Government" representatives will make end of life decisions for us. And yes the word "euthanasia" (nor Dr. assisted or "good death" from Greek) is nowhere to be found in the Bill. Before anyone goes nuts on me let me point out the even the liberal Washington Post had a piece in it yesterday acknowledging that this is a very great concern, even to them! It is there lurking no matter what some might claim.

Machster said...

Part two of lengthy response (sorry bout that!)

And another, (of many problems with the only bill we have any access too - the House Bill) is the provision which allows abortions using our tax money. It costs only $50 plus a co-pay to get an abortion where these words are applied to law (e.g. London). The Democratic controlled rejected an amendment which whould take this provision out of the bill. I can not imagine any serious person who cherishes human life supporting/subsidizing with our own money - killing unborn babies for any reason at all. And supporting it by donating our tax dollars to pay for it? But that is just I said there are those whom this does not seem to phase one single bit.
I could go on, but suffice it to say... although I do think healthcare reform is desperately needed to stop some of the abuses you so articulately point out, I do not think a Government Healthcare or "Single Payer" system is the answer most Americans can stomach. Not now or ever - given how grossly our elected officials "manage anything"...for any reason.
Stop and think for a moment. With Government run healthcare, basically our tax dollars subsidize every aspect of it. Two things happen; first...any other healthcare program will be eliminated. Just as anyother institution or corporation would be put out of business - unable to compete with government subsidized competition. Secondly, think about the "Civil Servants" you have known or had experience with. Are they inclined to go the extra mile? Do they hurd out at precisely quitting time? Do they perform as efficiently and expertly as those who are engaged in business? Or do they tend to "empire build" in order to get others to do their own jobs and get themselves promoted to "management". Or, if you have ever worked at Hill AFB, you could not help but learn how they "Let Contracts to Companies or Corporations" to actually do their jobs for them. That way they take the credit if things go well, and the subcontractor has to take the blame if things do not work out. We as taxpayers literally are paying double to do a simple single job in a Government run or Civil Servant system.
So who do you want doing delicate heart or brain surgery? A "Civil Servant" (who is near impossible to fire, hold accountable or get to do actual work much of the time) or a professional in a practice which relies on and takes pride in his own skills and work ethic? Under a Single Payer (Government Run) Healthcare System...doctors literally become "Civil Servants"...impossible to fire, hold accountable, or perform actual work). Or under the best case scenario, the Government Civil Servant doctors would hire out the more high risk surgeries to independent subcontractor doctors...and yup! We will be paying double what we now pay! Just like the Civilian Service Model all across this land and indeed the World.
So many examples of this I am surprised you have not considered it a very strong reality. No Bill, It (Single Payer) will damn us to mediocracy and sub-standard healthcare.
I say let's fix the problems that are problems and do not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Can anyone cogently provide a counter argument based upon relavent experience and personal knowledge? Oh, and a caveat must be that the generalizations above are meant as just that... And of course their are a few rare exceptions to the general rules about Civil Servants, Doctors under Governmental payscales, etc. But they are few...DAMN FEW!

Bill C. said...

Machster, Human error runs rampant thru-out the healthcare system all ready. Wrong kidneys and so forth.
It's also true that a hospital is the most likely place to pick up a deadly ailment.
All the examples you listed have nothing to do with who is paying, or how it's paid. They are systemic problems caused by humans and the same things happen outside the military system all the time.
Why should we have insurance companies running our system? Their sole purpose is profits. They profit off doctors, patients and own most the facilities. The fact that we are where we are today is a testament to their inability and disregard for the undertaking they've monopolized.
It's they alone who are responsible the the out of control costs, which isn't hard to figure because it brings more profits. They have no concern for a persons well-being other than healthy folks pay in and don't draw out.
If they purchace expensive equipment like cat-scans or angioplasty everyone has to have them before a diagnosis is rendered, whether needed or not.
Personally I prefer things the way they were in my youth, when doctors were more concerned with the well being of their patients and their pricing was based on their personal knowlege of what the patient could pay. That chicken will do as payment, or paint my shed, but that discussion never took place until the patient was well on the way to recovery.

Machster said...

Interesting about the insurance companies. What about malpractice insurance costs due to much needed tort reforms?

I know several doctors who pay grossly excessive malpactice insurance (on the order of $450,000 a year) because of the jackpot letigious open season on doctors.

Under a single payer system who pays the lawyers for settlements against government doctors (civil servants)? Will we have legislation to pay huge sums to citizens who are maltreated? Will the Government pay off court judgments against itself? Or will we just be told to "just take the pain pill or chill pill" and lump it? Ever try to sue the Government? Makes one wonder why the trial lawyers seem to be quiet on the subject of Government Healthcare doesn't it.

Obama, a lawyer, married to a lawyer, who receives big bucks from the trial lawyer's for campaign donations, biting the hand that is feeding him and his. Going after and demonizing insurance companies...and the trial lawyers sitting idly by. Interesting.

Ambulance chasers have turned into a specialized group (we hear their TV ads nightly) described as abrasive and contentious and disputatious lawyers - litigious and with acrimony they plague medical professionals. We of course have to pay for this indirectly, but we surely do pay.

So where is tort reform in the healthcare reform? Not even being mentioned or discussed...why? Because so many are lawyers in Congress and our President and first Lady are also lawyers.

So who is influencing who? Where are the "special interests" which we are supposed to be being saved from?

No Bill, pay attention the the whole story. Do you really want civil servants preforming heart surgery on you?

I also managed to survive youth with a local Dr. who prescribed Coke syrup instead of cough medicine because he knew we could not afford the fancy stuff. And the barter and cooperative community served our small town community well back in the day. But those days are gone and will never return.

These days a doctor has to spend 10 years and take out at least $250,000 in loans to get through medical school. He has to pay back those loans somehow. And with the "evil insurance companies charging $37,500 A MONTH for malpractice insurance...well we begin to see the nexis of the problem. The root cause seems to be in the courts and the legal profession.

John Edwards earned his bones sueing doctors and drug companies. Locally we are urged to contact Bob DeBry, or Siegfried and Jensen, or .... or .... the list seems endless. There are sixty-seven (67) pages of Attorneys in the Ogden phonebook alone. Makes one wonder how 237,000 residents in Weber County can support so many lawyers doesn't it?

No Bill the blame game is a lose - lose political game. And problems we acknowledge are indeed problems all need to be faced...without political concerns or special interests influence.

-I think we need tort reform by placing caps on legal settlements.
-And we need health savings accounts incentivised (as deductables for example) so we can use our own resources or become self-insured...just as with life insurance.
-we definitely need tax incentives for preventive healthcare measures like health clubs and exercise programs and achieved health standards.
-we need to amend Medicare and Medicaid to make it availble to those who are denied commercial insurance due to pre existing conditions.
-we need a national committment to deny any healthcare benefits to illegals.
-we need extended affordable healthcare insurance for able bodied people between jobs.
-we do not need state cooperatives such as IHC which drive others out of Healthcare. We do not need any state or nationally supported or subsidized hospitals or hospital systems. We need our medical institutions to be free to compete with medical pracatices excellence as a goal.

Just a few off the top comments/ideas to think about.

Feel free to add to the list.

Bill C. said...

Well Machman, under a single payer the doctors would not be cival servants, they're doctors, but instead of billing an insurance provider they bill the new department of health.
There would be no need for malpractice insurance, they may have to create some new governing body from within the healthcare industry. This body would have the authority to reveiw and fine or suspend any doctors for things that commonly occur now like un-needed extras and the like.
Fees thru-out the system would need to be reveiwed and all those profit motives eliminated, just the elinination of the huge multiple profit taking by the insurance providers at every step would reduce costs drasticly.
This system has evolved to date not as a means to provide better care, but to accomidate the insurance providers constant drive towards greater profitability as they has monopolized the whole system.
Lawyers, abortion and other hot button issues do not belong in this discussion, they're simply used to charge up the public and distract from the single purpose of fixing healthcare.
Fix healthcare, then once that's accomplished you can deal with the side issues later, as all those adjust to the new fix.

Machster said...

I hope you are right. But I see what you are suggesting as pure fairyland and wishful thinking.

Healthcare is a multifaceted and layered - difficult system. And all its parts and all its problems need to be very carefully worked out. Tinkering with one problem at a time...then waiting to see what damage is done is not something most people would want.

Especially when the literal LIVES of their loved ones are clearly at stake.

Doctor's having to charge big time to pay off med school, Government loans for the most part, and outrageous malpractice insurance is clearly more than half the problem with our National Healthcare costs.

I'd be interested in what others have to say on this issue...but apparently there are Ogden issues which seem more important. Guess all politics is LOCAL.

Aren't there any lawyers and doctor's on this blog?

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