I was blue, just as blue as I could be
Ev’ry day was a cloudy day for me
Then good luck came a-knocking at my door
Skies were gray but they’re not gray anymore
Blue skies
Smiling at me
Nothing but blue skies
Do I see
Bluebirds
Singing a song
Nothing but bluebirds
All day long
Irving Berlin
"Blue Skies"
1946
Yesterday's rumor indeed proved correct, it seems. The Lift Ogden group apparently opened its door to intrepid reporter Scott Schwebke last night, who sat in on the group's previously announced "closed to the public" Chris Peterson east bench development presentation.
Thanks to reporter Schwebke's austere "just the facts, ma'am" reporting style, we are spared (perhaps mercifully) extraneous details of a gathering that most surely had the atmosphere of an old-time southern-style revival meeting.
For those who didn't catch Mr. Schwebke's report in this morning's Standard-Examiner edition, you can read up on the nuts and bolts of Mr. Peterson's "plan" right here.
In keeping with the reserved tone of reporter Schwebke's article, we will refrain, for the moment, from offering our own editorial comments on this. We wouldn't want to taint the discussion with our own analysis at this early juncture now, would we?
That however doesn't mean that our gentle readers must follow suit. Indeed, by linking this article, we invite our readers to offer their always-intelligent and gentle comments, in the free-wheeling manner that has become the hallmark of our perceptive and creative readership.
You are invited to "have at it," folks. Is it finally time to "cash in" our crown jewel east bench property, and thus convert our sleepy little town into a giant urban amusement park? Is Matt Godfrey right when he says Chris's plan is the biggest thing since the coming of the railroad? Will the citizens of Ogden gratefully embrace the "aesthetically interesting" cable contraption that will bisect our town? Will the paranoiac and xenophobic fat-cats who will reside in our new gated "fortress on the hill" ultimately blend into our community and become good citizens of Ogden? Will the townsfolk throw rose petals at Chris Peterson's feet, as they bask in their new economic prosperity?
So many questions -- so few answers.
Perhaps our gentle readers can clear up some of these questions. Lets hear it from the nay-sayers AND yea-sayers. Now that Chris Peterson has finally spilled the beans, does his ambitious plan actually have merit?
Who will be the first to comment?
Don't let the cat get your tongues.
Update 3/31/06 8:35 a.m. MT: One of the Lift Ogden folks seems to have become a big fan of Weber County Forum. He likes our articles and comments so much he's spamming all his pals with quotes and excerpts. Weber County Forum offers Bob Geiger a tip of the hat for helping promote our little blog throughout the Ogden community! Every referral helps spread the word. Although I have my doubts whether Bob fully appreciates the nuance, humor and satire that saturates this place, I'm sure there are many on his email lists who will "get it." You can read two of his promotional emails here and here.
Thanks a bunch, Bob!
56 comments:
The Standard has proven yet again to be the mouthpiece of this administration and the wealthy...As for being the biggest thing since the railroad, HOGWASH! This scheme is nothing but a few rich white men getting richer off the backs of the poor white, hispanic and blacks.
We need to fight! We need to stand up! We need to preserve our small, railroad, industrial town. I liked this town before Godfrey came from Harrisville to create a Park City.
I actually prefer seeing homeless bums creeping around town than those fat, rich, white men with grandios ideas, and secret get richer quick pyramid schemes!
The plan [politely so called at this point] has but one purpose: to dazzle the rubes [$500 MILLION COMING TO OGDEN!]. But, amid the bare reportage, the outlines of Hizzonah's tactics to divide the citizenry and attach enough factions piecemeal to the plan are discernable.
Prediction: "Ogden needs the money from the increased tax base Mr. Peterson's project will generate in order to keep operating the Marshall White Center as a city-run center, instead of leasing it out."
This tactic can, and I think will, be used over and over, substituting other groups/projects/needs for "Marshall White Center" in the sentence above. E.g. Ogden "need the money from the increased tax base... to hire more police and firemen." Or "Ogden needs the money from the increased tax base to re-do its sewers/improve its schools/etc, etc. etc." The plan is to isolate and attach enough small groups to the plan to get it by. A tried and true tactic.
The goal is to dangle all that money out there so that no serious questions will be asked until the real estate scheme to sieze Ogden's premier public park in the foothills and to turn it over to the mayor's cronies among the developers is achieved.
And there are serious questions still out there that neither Mr. Peterson nor the Mayor have begun to address. Here are just a few:
1. Ogden already has a problem with water pressure on the benches just west [and downslope] from the properties Mr. Peterson wants to develop. Where is the water going to come from for them? How will pressure be maintained that far upslope? As for the Malan's Basin Alpine Village, where exactly will the water come from to service that?
2. Has Mr. Peterson obtained... or even applied for... the necessary permits he will need to develop Malan's Basin, to affect watershed, to alter Waterfall Creek's flow, etc? Will Weber County building codes permit him to develop a "roadless" Alpine village resort in Malan's Basin without road access down-mountain for fire and police protection? Or will a very very expensive mountain road have to be carved up the mountain in Taylor's Canyon to make the village possible? If so, who buids it, who maintains it through the winters at what cost?
3. Absent a successful ski resort at Malan's Basin, it's hard to see how the gondola/gondola scheme can work. Has Mr. Peterson gotten a feasibility study done by a reputable company to ascertain if there is enough snow year in and year out, on the ground long enough, on the West slopes of the Wasatch where he wants to build to sustain a commercial ski operation? If not, why not?
So little seems to have been done so far, that we know about, to see if the lynchpin of this whole scheme... "world class skiing" on the west slope of the Wastach above Ogden... is even feasible, that I can't help wondering if the main idea here is simply to justify sale of Mt. Ogden Park and its development as a condo/gated community, for the profit of Mr. Peterson and his associated developers [the presumed source of the $500 million investment?] and if once that has been achieved, much of the rest will be dropped.
So, after the big unveiling, many many questions are still unsanswered. Naturally, Mr. Peterson and Hizzonah promise that "further details" will be forthcoming. Odd, that so far, every announcement, unveiling, etc. seems to require yet another one. We shall have to see.
So many questions.
And still, so few answers.
Excellent comments, Legacy, Jennifer and Curmudgeon. Thanks for chiming in.
And an aside to Curm: I met with a group of Ogden businessmen about a week ago. Each of these gentlemen had attended a "private" sales presentation in the mayor's office, pursuant to "command invitation.
The mayor is apparently telling his cadre of "annointed ones" that the Malan's Basin Gondola is NOW BEING PLANNED TO GO OVER THE TOP -- TO DIRECTLY CONNECT WITH SNOW BASIN!
Those of us who are actual skiers have always understood that the idea of a "world class ski resort" in west-facing Malan's Basin was a sham.
It appears that much is yet to be "revealed" in the mysterious Chris Peterson "plan," including the identity of the "true" principals. I've long held the suspicion that this whole scheme has the Holding Family/Sinclair Oil's fingerprints all over it.
And what about you "yea-sayers?" Surely there must be something good to say about Peterson's scheme.
Well, as I said on a
nother article, I sat through the mind and bum numbing presentations. First was Ed Allen, the big honcho of the LiftOgden movement who told us that he's the 'spearcatcher'! Much laughter ensued by the faithful followers.
Everyone stood and introduced themselves. Lots of banking and real estate development people present. Mrs. Pat Allen jumped up and said, "Pat Allen, Ogden cheerleader!" YEA A united family.
I had the impression that intros were made to identify SmartGrowth and other obstructionists lurking in the audience.
No microphones utilized. A map of the golf course and Ogden gondola route, which appeared to be arial views and one was hard pressed to know WHAT areas were being pointed out!
Neither Mayor G nor Peterson could answer questions about funding. Godfrey did say that the 'city' would receive 5 million for the sale to Peterson. "Half to the school district, and half to the city." Which would go to build the gondola! Cripes, is that all? We could see a few more buildings go up in flames and have a tidy sum to fix sewer and water lines and take care of lots of other problems IN Ogden.
M G was asked if the taxpayers were going to be bonded for this 'dream?' "Oh, no...but, the financing hasn't really been wowrked out yet." In other words, folks, we have another wreck center X several million that we'll be stuck paying for.
Peterson is going to have a little town in Malan's basin. Only when asked, did he say...'we'll have to have a hotel. A restaurant, and other things that will be a draw to people riding the gondola up there. And where are the riders coming from? THE 10% OF THE 3 MILLION CARS GOING BY ON 1-15!Where do these clown get these figures? Millions of dollars for construction of dorms and housing units for college kids, millions to build the gondola "which will bring smart, educated people" to Chri's homes and THEY will have businesses to employ other smart people!!! Peterson didn't know that WSU has students from 70 countries enrolled right now! "I didn't mean to insult....I just mean we'll have even MORE!"
Of course, the hotel with the 2nd open 2 story for the gondola to pass through HASN'T been built.....the parking terrace for those thousands of students coming because of the gondola HASN't been built. The housing for thousands of students in the downtown HASN'T been started! But wait! There's more: Peterson will level all the walking trails so it will be easier to get to the Falls, and the new homeowners "will be thrilled to have hikers, walkers and bikers using the trails every DAY, because they and their grandchildren will be there too!"
Ah, Utopia...what vision. Peterson will "have to reconfigure about 5 holes on Mt Ogden...nothing said about the problems Vause pointed out about flooding, drainage, etc.
Peterson stuck to sophomoric subjects (no pun intended) of students "in dorms with no kitchens, so they can eat together in the food court or whatever, and then they can' build friendships that will be with them into adulthood, and build business contacts....they will BOND...and even MORE students will be drawn here. THEY HAVE A DREEEEEEAM....DO YOU SHARE IT? Oh, somebody say, AMEN! Hallelujah brothers and sisters!
When the masses are lulled and placated with visions of bonding, cuddly students, and 10 floor plans to choose from, with a lottery...put down $10,000. bucks and IF your name is drawn...you get to choose your lot. Of course, the "association will have rules for the 'homeowners' to abide by"...but what the heck? These homes will be "so beautiful that your children and grandchildren will WANT to come visit. 'It's not like you live in Iowa, and have nothing to offer them when they visit."
That's the caliber of the big presentation. No wonder they wanted it to be just the converted zealots. There's no zealot like a convert. The sign-up sheets went round and round for placing yard signs. A plea for those who will convert others with the 'message' of the dreeeeam!
You can hear more....when they have a PUBLIC gathering at WSU in mid April. "6 areas to proclaim the vision"...I suppose cookies will be served too. Remember...it's bonding to eat together.
Oh, Godfrey said. "Just today, I received a call from a man named Houlihan, 'like Hot Lips' (he said) who asked if he could invest in the gondola! without knowing anything about it!"
Wow....and some others have done the same. Just calling and wanting to give money to Matt. Remember that, folks, when he comes to us with his hands out.
These grandiose schemes will take YEARS TO COMPLETE. But, Peterson says he plans to have the gondola in by the time the commuter rail hits town!
Martin Luther Godfrey and his "I have a dreeeeam!" And "I'll feeeed yo dreeeeam, and continue to scheme" Peterson.
I wonder if M L GODfrey was so busy taking calls from persons throwing money at him for the gondola, he just couldn't make it to WSU for the 'ethics' discussion.
Rudi: Thanks for the update.
Ah... Rudi? If the gondola is to go over the top to Snow Basin, then what exactly will be the point of the Alpine Village in Malan's Basin?
As I recall, the genesis of that idea [World Class Malan's Basin Four Season Ski Resort!] was to justify the gondola/gondola scheme after Snow Basin management said it was not interested in a gondola link to Ogden. Wasn't it?
Curmudgeon, Ned, Jennifer, Legacy, Rudi
Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time to write exactly what needs to be said and asked. #1 you save me from having to type until my fingers bleed for saying many of the same things, and #2 you seem to always nail the fallacy of the "gondolites" arguments. I just hope the people of Ogden see the scheme for what it is worth, making rich people richer off the backs of the core population of our city.
Please be sure to write WSU Pres. Ann Milner to let her know that she is supported by the common folk and that she is in charge of a legacy and stewardship for WSU. Please don't give away our much needed University land for a such a pipe dream. It makes me laugh out loud to see the 2000 room dorm to be built when the brand new University Village at WSU is struggling with 80% occupancy rates. Sure this Gondola will be the life saver for the University. - GIVE ME A BREAK!!
Fernald,
You can bet that I will write Ms. Milner! As you suggested, we all should.
Nothing that was touted last night suggested the WSU alliance is a 'done deal."
I pray President Milner can discern 'truth from error' and will 't'row the bums out!"
I was very impressed with the plans. It is an exiting time to live in Ogden. It is obvious to me that the 6 or 7 of you that have commented don't have a clue really. [name deleted] how was having the mayor at your house the other night? I'm surprised you didn't strangle him. Anyone against this project in my humble opinion is kentucky hillbilly old timers who really dig all the classy motels on washington blvd. probably single, no kids in the area, retired, and not worried about jobs to keep their families in such a beautiful area. I went to the meeting quite ambivalent towards the housing development, and came away rather impressed. We have enough poor in Ogden there is nothing wrong with attracting the wealthy to spend their disposable money here, and if the poor get pushed out of Ogden Brigham City is right up the road.
It comes as no surprise that a seemingly honest fellow like you, Rich K, might arrive at a Ogden Gondola Cult meeting, and emerge "rather impressed."
It's part of the psychological process that occurs when one side of the argument is presented in the context of a "cult pep rally."
It's crowd psychology at its worst; and it illustrates starkly why this whole process should have been entirely public from the "get go."
I attended one of these events not too long ago, and was shocked at the carny/religious revival/multi-level marketing atmosphere.
I'll advise that you should keep your head on straight and listen to the rational arguments of the many people who post here.
Sooner or later this subject will come up for general public debate; and I'll submit that you err if your mind is now made up, on the basis of your attendance at ONE Gondola Cult meeting, because you haven't even heard THE REST OF THE DISCUSSION YET.
One other thing. It's a GROSS breach of netiquette to address an anonymous person by their true name on any blog in the blogosphere.
This is especially true for a blogger, who must remain concerned about security issues.
Please read up on the WCF posting policy, a link to which we are furnishing here.
Thanks for your comment.
I hope you won't be a stranger to this place. There's room for all viewpoints here, so long as they are rationally expressed.
In that context, characterising everyone who doesn't genuflect to this "plan" at this early stage of the process as "clueless" isn't exactly a real great to start out here on this blog.
We all hope you'll moderate your own comments in the future, and add something useful to the conversation.
We have a wide array of intelligent people who read and post here. Ad Hominem accusations won't cut it here.
Hey Rich K
Seems the common "Gondolites" are always saying that the "nay sayers" are all 60+ yrs old. I'm a 30-something and I have many friends that are 30-somethings that are against this idea, so stop trying to pigeon hole the age groups. It is getting old (no pun intended) .
There are plenty of ideas out there that would encourage our City to begin new life - not just the Gondala Godfey/Peterson love affair. You claim anyone against change is anti-everything. Get a clue, it is just tiring to hear all the so-called "saviors" of this city being so single-minded about the Gondola. If you all think this is to only solution to Ogden's problems, then we are certainly in a world of hurt.
It is amazing that a group of glorified Used Car Salesman can do such a fine song and dance about a ridiculous idea of a "World Class Resort" and everything else in Malan's get a bunch of kids all fired up. I wonder how many of these so called Gondola backers will be investing in the Peterson homes up there in Mt. Ogden?
This is a prime example of folks on this blog who can only complain about the way everything is done...instead of coming up with a better solution. By better solution, I do not mean doing nothing. Something must be done. I love Ogden, I was born and raised here. I have often defended Ogden as a great place to live...enough to where I am moving from nearby Roy, back to Ogden. Instead of just shooting down every idea that comes down the pike, come up with better ideas.
If we're going to sell our semi-pristine benchlands to private developers, like the "oily" Chris Petersom, we should put the whole package up for competitive bids too, as last week's Standard Examiner article suggests.
We should advertise this property in the Wall Street Journal.
If we're going to breach the original donative agreement for this east bench property, BTW, we need to consult our moral compasses. This land was donated to Ogden City, with the restriction that it would ALWAYS remain a public park.
The property donor had incredible foresight.
The current Ogden City administration has none of that.
Curmudgeon quietly notices that the folks who have posted in favor of the plan so far have offered no answers to any of the questions raised.
Imagine that.
I had to gasp through the bimbo smokers outside the door. Were those your ladies of the evening? They didn't look bright enough even for LiftOgden.
I was invited to that meeting and so was Mrs. Jeske. In fact, I've been invited to all your meetings, by Curt. This one just coincided with my schedule.
Were you converted by the Mayor's
waving hands, his vision, his dream, his yet another search for a legacy? A really fine legacy would be to be known as the little mayor who put his citizens' safety and welfare first.
A mayor committed to getting this city out of debt. For starting and finshing one 'bond the people' project before chasing yet another vision.
A mayor who sees that residents of HIS city don't have to endure one more day of orange rusty water pouring from their pipes!
A mayor who establishes trust with the City Council...who is open with all (not just two). A mayor who doesn't use public funds to drag Curt Geiger to WA D.C. to meet with our Congressmen.....they could've talked with them at the recent convention, OR seen them when they were all home for break.
A mayor who doesn't chase off to Europe on our nickel and be dined like a courtesan by gondola makers.
He could have had the American based gondola maker jaunt over HERE to see beautiful Ogden and her mountains, and meet with the Council! He could have apprised the other 5 council members of his travel plans. Instead he snarled at Mr. Stephens, who rightfully asked why Godfrey hadn't talked to the council first, "why didn't you ask me what my plans were?" DUH....before anyone knew the little guy had flown away?
I suppose it's human nature to want to belong to some group seen as superior to oneself...thus giving stature and worth to an insecure psyche. Just like Gang members are searching for 'family'....they get accepted into the gang or 'family' and delude themselves into feelings of worth.
Looking over some of that group last night made me see some people as breathless hangers' on....so delighted to be invited by DR Ed Allen, THE mayor, Geigers', and, maybe the very rich Mr. Peterson would bless them with a smile, nod or handshake.
How many of you were invited to Christmas dinner at any of those homes last year? Right...and it won't happen this year either.
I think that you insipid loud mouthed strawmen are frightened by Mrs. Jeske. You aren't used to integrity, morality and effectiveness in your leaders and it baffles you.
Even when Godfrey is out of office, you'll be able to shake his hand....he'll be happy to be remembered by his non-thinking fans.
Help him find his legacy...ask him to remember he is a public SERVANT, and he has a sacred trust to lead Ogden with fidelity, and fiduciary responsibility. This office he holds is NOT all about HIM...help him remember that....he'll find his legacy in being honest and responsive to the needs of the citizens of Ogden.
Do you know what
behavior modification' is? Every time you can catch him doing something RIGHT....give him an M & M!
Oh, Mrs. Littrell was not there! Stay off the sauce, you're hallucinating, kiddo.
shut up you old HAG, you to JESKE jeske is as dumb as a box of rox.
jeske is also very SEXY.HAHAHA she reminds me of worn out pool table
We're going to let these last two anonymous posts stand, as a testament to the mentality of the Ogden Gondola Cultists.
We routinely and quietly delete posts such as this at a rate of a dozen or so a week.
We normally do this without comment.
It's high time though, We think, that our gentle readers know what the Godfrey/Peterson supporters are all about. It's time we all know about their base mentality.
The last two were from gondolists.
Please draw your own conclusions.
I thought Beavis and Butthead got cancelled years ago!
There certainly are many unanswered questions concerning this new grandious scheme of the little lord mayor.
However, I would like to take a slight break from this line on comments and urge all WCF readers to support the Foursite Film Festival which is about to be underway at the Egyptian theater.
This festival is what the Sundance festival started out to be, and has some pretentions of still being. This is truly independent film making at its best. I understand they have 50 entries this year. And you can't beat the prices!
I believe that this festival will become a major force in the future of film in the US.
Support your local film makers! God knows they deserve it more than these insane Godfrey schemes!
Rudi,
I recognize the nomenclator.....one or both contributors is Bobby G.
Sure does besmirch the honor of Annapolis.
say MAYOR,
If this is such a great thing for Ogden then why don't you put you own raggity slum lord apts buildings up for coladeral.
and if it goes do in defeat would you be willing to go to jail for the life of however long it takes to pay it off. so we would know that there is justice in this world. how about it?
I know you read this blogg that is why you didn't show up yesterday for the ethics class, because you don't know the word ethics and what is right and wrong. what a hippacrit.
what do you have to say for yourself. well!!!
by the way we don't want any jokes at church, especially in hp meeting.
OzBoy....thanx for the heads up on the Film Festival. I haven't had an opportunity to check the entertainment section....where is the info, when do the films start showing, etc?
Thanx.
Interesting viewpoint from a WSU stundent, from the Signpost website.
The Gondola project is part of a multi-modal transportation plan. It is key for Ogden to link itself to the largest recreational attraction being the local ski resort. The Gondola as currently proposed could be the first stage in a loop around Ogden's core contributing to and encouraging a pedestrian lifestyle. This is exactly what Chris Peterson has envisioned for Malan's Basin. Pedestrian communities are the model of the future.
Our motorized culture and the planning that goes with it is dying as it was created on the
shoulders of cheap fuel which is no longer such a luxury. Ogden was a city that was created
during an era of simple transportation and benefits from the density of it's lots and blocks.
This kind of urban density is a perfect model for local public transportation system such as a
gondola. Once the leg is built from Union Station to The top of WSU this will create half of an urban
loop. The other half could beadded at a later date and since the maintenance and parts
infrastructure would now be in place concurrent legs would decrease in cost. Such a loop
circumnavigating roughly 24th st/Harrison/36th St/Lincoln or Wall would be walking distance
accessible to most of Ogden's core if stations were built at the corners and mid lines.
Of course this is far beyond what is being proposed but the political process and a few vocal
opponents who lack any vision beyond their windshields prevents such a grander plan from
suggestion.
How nice would the lifestyle be when you could walk to the gondola station and ride to downtown,
pick up a sandwich and then ride to Malan's Basin for an evening hike and sunset photo session.
Then have dinner at the proposed resort and ride the gondola back to downtown for a movie, then
back home. Perhaps Whole Foods or Trader Joes could be lured to the downtown. Whole Foods
recently opened a few stores in Manhattan as an Urban experiment in Grocery retailing and have
rapidly become community focal points with the healthy food and friendly sevice and
surroundings. Grocery shopping in downtown would be such a fine experience, integrating this
key part of life with our downtown.
Communities can actually create a lifestyle with this kind of vision. Ogden's natural pedestrian
density lends itself to this kind of enhancement. Those with no vision of, or simply lacking any
lifestyle, may check out and continue vegetating while the rest of have some fun and enjoy life on
this planet.
Examine the lifestyle of communities with largely pedestrian lifestyles such as those in Switzerland. They are interconnected by many gondolas, trams and other ropeway conveyances. These are key infrastructures that make their economy and communities work together with other local infrastructures such as their ski areas. The population is in much better physical shape than
the average American because of their focus on pedestrian communities and recreation like
mountain climbing and skiing/snowboarding. This is what a country like Switzerland is focused on while we in the U.S. focus on preserving a dwindling oil supply and obsess about an overblown
perception of worldwide terrorist conspiracy against us. Paranoia anyone?...
Ogden has the most unique location of any western U.S. city. It has the shortest straight line
distance to a major ski area in the world for a city this size. European ski area owners are
astonished at the lost opportunity to link a city of this size to such a local gem as Snowbasin or
the proposed Malan's Basin.
Those resorts represent a huge infrastructural investment by their owner's for the enjoyment of
locals as well as visitors from around the world.
To not connect the city to these key recreational areas is akin to a city building fences around the
city parks. The city has figuratively thumbed it's nose at Earl Holding while he ventured a hundred
million dollars into a playground like no other, right in our own backyard. Some local fools even
have the audacity to claim he made sweetheart deals. Like this guy needs the money. Naturally
any individual investment must stand on it's own but I can imagine that Snowbasin is hardly
profitable next to his other concerns. That makes Snowbasin even more of a gift to our
community. That there would be any negativativity directed at Mr. Holding surely reflects the lack
of vision and poor attitude of a few losers in our community. There a thousands of towns spread
across the country with no such recreational infrastructure. Will those fools please move there
and leave us here to enjoy our natural resources and recreation resorts.
The Sierra club reacts with typical knee jerk fashion opposing any new development on
undeveloped land regardless of human benefit such as getting off their collective swollen asses
and learn to ski or snowboard and enjoy the mountain environment .
Gondolas zip along silently and hardly impact the environment after initial construction. More of
the population that includes the elderly and handicapped can enjoy the high mountain
environment without taking a 40 mile roundtrip to Snowbasin.
Has the Sierra club calculated the impact of roads and endless vehicle miles driven over them to
reach a key recreational area. That recreation area(Mountain Resorts) will be there for a long time.
That is why it is considered part of the local infrastructure. The relative permanance and healthy
recreational opportunity it offers qualifies it the utmost attention to link to the city. This would
reduce a substantial amount of traffic and focus peoples flow to downtown where naturally more
shops will spring up providing all the necessary services that once graced the modern and
thriving Ogden downtown of the 1940's and 50's.
Ogden would instantly become the destination as it once was. The relevance of this cannot be
overstated. No studies need be done. There are hundreds of case studies of existing such
infrastructures around the world that have contributed to the lifestyle of the local population as
well as created a destination for the world to enjoy. Ogden's position to Mount Ogden makes this
engineering project actually much easier than many such installations around the world serving
communities that are a fraction of Ogden's population.
Telluride , Colorado(population approx.2,500!!)has just such a Gondola linking the new mountain
village to the historic town. It became necessary after millions of vehicle trips made the lifestyle
miserable. Now the lifestyle is largely pedestrian and the gondola is filled year round, all day, with
riders who may be skiing, shopping, dating, lunching, going to work, a movie, dinner. To deny
Ogden a similar lifestyle will doom Ogden to continued mediocrity. How can a community that is a
fraction of Ogden's population (just 3%)find so much satisfaction in a Gondola and then some in
Ogden even question it's benefit. They should go to Los Angeles or wherever and be condemned
to automobile hell. I have a better vision for my newly adopted community.
The Few Noisy Naysayers who use typical catch words citing selfish political interests are
comfortable in their well worn computer chairs sipping soda and littering their keyboards with
potato chip crumbs while claiming to represent some kind of stand. They are negative to anything
and they would be best served by a mini Wal Mart on every corner of a depleted city.
And since when is the Sierra club in the Transportation analysis business. Their vision of a perfect
world is everyone in hiking boots, fanny packs and ass-length Patagonia shorts. There are other
forms of mountain enjoyment. They should be on board and be consulting on how to reduce
impact and make this plan as beautiful as it deserves to be.
Where are the Sierra Club when Utah has no glass recycling? This one issue represents far more
negative impact than any of the community enhancements discussed here. Where were the Sierra
Club to protect Glen Canyon 50 years ago. Making deals to seal it's demise is where. Why should
anyone in Utah trust the Sierra Club who singlehandedly sold out the singlemost spectacular
natural resource we had. They now refuse to take a stand against our ghastly war machine. They
relegate themselves to what they do best, whining about minor impacts when the big stuff goes
right over their heads.
Are they investing in Ogden's core? I am. I am encouraging other outsider's to do the same as
Ogden need's fresh blood quite obviously. Buy a rundown house, fix it up. Contribute some pride
in the community. There are many immigrant's and newcomers doing it. It's time for the opposition
to do it, too or sit down and keep quiet. I am here specifically for the potential of the Gondola
project and the quality lifestyle it presents for our community. I am one example of many who are
coming to Ogden for this project. Like it or not the Gondola will be built and Ogden will return to
greatness!!
Sharon
Here is a press release from the Utah Film Commission:
The 2006 season is turning out to be the biggest and best yet for the Foursite Film Festival. Over the last three year's since it's inception, the Festival has experienced exponential growth in both film entries and audience numbers and has gained notoriety for being one of the best-organized festivals in the nation.
The aptly named Foursite Film Festival showcases a diverse array of original films that give an optimistic view on the future of independent
film. Because these films are successful without controversy, the Festival is unique in the quality of programming offered to its audiences. Film genres and formats vary and promise to deliver an exciting weekend at the movies. In addition to the 50 films screening over the 3-day Festival, there will be a special world premier of Last Stop for Paul by Hollywood filmmaker Neil Mandt. This comedic, documentary-style feature film promises plenty of laughs during this heart-warming adventure. Another
special engagement by Mandalay pictures, White Space, will thrill snowboard and outdoor sports enthusiasts alike. White space features riders such as recent Olympic Gold Medallist, Shaun White.
This year the Festival moves from the Weber State University campus to its new home, the beautiful, Peery's Egyptian Theater in Ogden. The Theater has a state-of-the-art projection and sound system and
accommodates a large audience with an 800-seat auditorium. The theater is located on 24th and Washington in the heart of Downtown Ogden.
With the Festival falling on April Fool's weekend, a special comedy block will screen the evening of April 1st at 6:30pm. Tickets for this special screening are FREE, and that's no joke! A complete list of films along with images and a synopsis for each film
can be found by visiting www.foursitefilmfest.com. Tickets are available at the Egyptian Theater box office or online. Foursite Film Festival
March 31-April 2, 2006
Ticket Prices: $5.50 per screening
Screening Times:
Friday, March 31: 3:30pm, 6:30pm, 9:30pm
Saturday, April 1: 1:30pm, 3:30pm, 6:30pm FREE, 9:30pm
Sunday, April 2: 1:30pm, 3:30pm, 6:00pm Awards Ceremony, 7:30pm BEST OF
FEST
Ah the arrogance of youth! No knowledge of what he writes about, but that doesn't stop the verbage from spilling forth. Totally brain washed with endless facts made up by those "visionaries" he worships, and which have been spoon fed into his other wise empty head. A new comer to Ogden that is completely clueless about the people here and our history and anything he writes about.
He says: "I am one example of many who are
coming to Ogden for this project." That is the only thing he says that makes any sense! If this is the caliber of student that this dumb ass idea will bring to Weber, that in itself is the best argument yet against it!
This kid is so fulll of himself that there is no room left in his numb skull for any actual knowledge. Another loser in the making!
Sounds like the uneducated masses are restless.......
Rudi...I want to know how UTMormon can get access to the "Propagandola Channel" (ogden's 17) for hos blog!
Did the mayor offer the WCForum access as well?
Somebody asked the question of why nobody in favor of the projects answers the questions on this site. Why in the world would somebody do that? You ask for comments, two people or so give them, they in return get a string of comments questioning their intents, education, lifestyle, and preetty much any nasty thing that could be said about them. Of course people are going to want to have a real discussion in such a place. What was I thinking? This is very sad that a place like this exists, claims to be the place for open, educated discussion, but always degenerates into name calling and slander. Thank you and good bye; enjoy your misery while the rest of us try and actually do something for this city.
LOL, Legacy. Tuning into Channel 17 over the net is no big deal. Anybody can watch it on their computer any time, simply by going to this page:
Channel 17 feed
"This is very sad that a place like this exists, claims to be the place for open, educated discussion, but always degenerates into name calling and slander. "
Physician, heal thyself.
Dear Anon:
You missed the point of my noting that no one supporting has dealt with any of the questions asked. The point was, they have accepted lock, stock and barrel the Peterson proposal as wise, likely to succeed and doable without asking any of the obvious questions the proposal raises or even seeming to understand that it does raise questions which need to be addressed before reasonable claims about the project's liklihood for success, and reasonable projections about its consequences [economic, environmental, sociological] for the community can be made.
What went on downtown Wednesday night was a sales presentation by a real estate developer looking for investors [public and private] in his plans. Wise investors always ask questions, extenisive questions, about any investment pitched to them. Otherwise they end up owning Enron stock.
Some of the posters seem to think that the mere asking of questions like those I raised [and many other similar ones] constitutes unreasonable opposition.
As for those who posted in favor of the project getting "in return get a string of comments questioning their intents, education, lifestyle, and preetty much any nasty thing that could be said about them," that has, sadly, happened. You have seen no such comments from me.
Let's try for a couple of posts to drop the insult's and assumptions.
Can we address the topic of how to create a quality of life in our city. Can we take into accout the natural resources and the current recreational infrastructure. Can we also place emphasis on non-automotive transportation.
If we could stick to these topics we may have a chance at consensus.
I'm not saying that we cannot have a little fun taking jabs at the local politics.
It's just that we really are at a crucial time in our history.
Our culture and economy has been driven by cheap fuel and a transportation infrastructure that fails one crucial test. SCALABILITY. This is serious stuff my friends. This will lead us to world war like no other single issue and that world war is quite probably in it's infancy as we speak.
Our quality of life can be measured by the amenities in our city. The nbetter the amenities the higher the greater the value can be placed on living and investing here. If a person can live here without an automobile they can effectively reduce their cost of living by 100 to 1000 dollars a month depending on whether it's a hummer or a clunker they may currently depend on to get to the nearest wallmart.
Ogden has very set boundaries and unlike the rest of suburbia, Ogden is a city placed here for many strategic reasons.
Our city needs redevelopment. A city that is not aggressively redeveloping is dying.
Many have said they don't want Ogden to be the next Park City. I agree. One fundemental fact prevents this from ever being the outcome. Ogden is already a city of some size. Park City was little more than a couple of our city blocks. surrounded by NOTHING.
It was doomed to suburban-hyper-planned-hell. That will never happen in Ogden unless we allow it to deteriorate so much that the only solution is demolition over preservation.
We can ENHANCE our city by making it more pedestrian friendly, encouraging small local business over corporate and emphasizing recreation as our key amenity.
I think we need all of the things that all sides want. I think we need a streetcar, a gondola and Malan's Basin resort. We need a downtown market that caters to everyone, not just latinos or yuppies. In the 70's cooperative groceries were opened in a vacuum of inner city acces to healthy foods. Can the city assist a citizen's group to organize to get funding for a community grocery. Instead of depending on the next corporate saviour sapping our community for profit why not something as necessary to survival as FOOD and TRANSPORTATION be the cornerstones on which our community is built.How's that for a package.
While the rest of Wasatchia bloats and swallows up all of it's open space. We in Ogden can learn how to make the most out a little space.
Creating a TOD streetcar district in Central Ogden extending up to Harrison. Include the gondola and Malan's Basin as Chris Peterson's vision is of a small, pedestrian, environmentally, engineered resort. Surrounded by open-space.
All of these things would place Ogden squarely in the view of a nation with no solutions. Let's stop the stupid bickering and make some kind of sense of the future instead of wasting away in a sea of negativity.
How about this as food for thought. Can we GIVE, FREE OF CHARGE, the golf course to Chris Peterson to redevelop as he pleases. In return, he builds the COMPLETE gondola system INCLUDING stations every half mile from Downtown to WSU. The city would be own this leg. These stations must be adorned architecturally to match the cities heritage. ALL residents have FREE access to the system up to Malan's Basin. This would certainly guarantee him the numbers using the amenities in the pedestrian village.
As it stands, WHATEVER price the city gets for the golf course from Chris Peterson, It does NOT guarantee the COMPLETE installed cost of constructing the Downtown Leg of the gondola WITH stations. Giving Chris perterson the golf course and making him responsible for the COMPLETE instllation will guarantee it get finished.
Now I challenge any of you to please CRITIQUE this community enhancement package WITHOUT dragging personalities into it. We have a chance to get something out of this deal and Chris Peterson and his backers obviously have the resources to make this all happen. Let's mke them and all the rich folk who are going to move here prove how civic-minded they really are.
We need to put this project out to bid to the ski industry not just chris peterson. If we can agree that a resort on this side of the mountain would be a great YEAR ROUND city amentiy FOR EVERYONE, we can AGREE to put this thing out to bid. I guarantee we would get many comers to give us everything we WANT and NEED from this project.
WE have the mountain here, WE have the city with it's population here, WE have the golf course which his IMMENSELY negotiable, WE have all the cards in the deal.
Hey Match,
I know that there were similar things said about the rec. center needing to go out for bid, but there's just one small problem here: CHRIS PETERSON OWNS THE LAND! You can't have something put out to bid for the entire industry, then have it built on Peterson's private property. He owns it, therefore he has the option to do with it what he wants to.
Hey mitch he owns the land! Get off mommies computer...
This Gondola deal smells like the bottom of Great Salt Lake!
C'mon Chris Peterson is either his father in law's (Earl Holding) puppet attempting to, rather covertly, expand Snow Basin, or he has no support and therefore no money from Daddy In Law and this is all smoke in mirrors so he can build his own resort on the backs of Ogden and it's gentle folks.
Still waiting to hear from the usual crew. Lovely jen, curmudge, oz, RZ. I haven't offended any one nor claimed any side here. I am looking for ways for the city to be guaranteed something of substance here. Any takers.
anonymous, the mommies computer bit is quite worn, find a new jab, dude. To write commentary you have to use your mind no matter what side you hang with.
Thanx for the two excellent comments, Mutch.
Please don't be disappointed if you don't get immediate feedback from some of the regulars here. Reader comments usually taper off here on Fridays, presumably because many of our readers are winding down at week's end.
Speaking for myself, I'll be busy with "Real Life" business for most of the afternoon, but will definitely get back to you on this when time permits.
Your proposition is intelligent and well thought out.
Yes, there are MANY ways to skin a cat.
Thanks for chiming in.
Curmudgeon quietly points out that Mr. Peterson does not own Mt. Ogden Park, land donated to the city of Ogden for the express purpose of public recreation.
Mr. Peterson can do what he pleases with the land he owns in Malan's Basin, consistent with existing country ordinances regarding development of such land. But he does not own the park.
Rudi, The posts often left here do as much harm to your cause as the 2 "Gondolists" do to theirs. As I have looked at this site in recent months the only ideas to come from this site include whore Houses, and more kokomo clubs downtown. I did laugh at Grondahls cartoon of Godfrey in a bubble Gondola, but I do concede that many of the posters here are in a bubble of their own. It is irresponsible and ludicrous for the citizens of Ogden to say they want to keep
Ogden the way it is, progress in any form is key for the future that many of us are so concerned about. It does us no good to upgrade infrastructure if there is no jobs to keep people here in the future. The upgrading of
Ogden sewer,water and streets etc will be much better accomplished with a proper tax base to share the burden.
Lovely Jennifer -
You must have missed those recommendations for Ogden. In Fact, here at the WCF they were proposed ideas for economic growth in Ogden.
Maybe just the typical humor found here that us Gondola supporters don't understand. Apparently humor can be found in claiming that the Mayor burns down our buildings, that Chris Peterson is a Bum, that Ed Allen has a God complex and that the future of Ogden resides in our effectiveness and establishing whore houses. Then, we're all supposed to drastically switch over to an objective tone, and take everything else here seriously as though it warrantes it.
The fact is, the subject, content and context of what you claim to be humor is almost 100% of the time reflected verbatum in what you claim should be observed and injested here as factual, objective communication.
Hello, OzBoy...great information about the film festival. You wrote it to Sharon, but we gained a lot from it! Thank you.
Mutch...."can't we all just get along?"
That would be an admirable goal, but I just slogged through all the blogs, and interspersed with your and Anon's (which one_?) reasoned remarks were denigrating jabs at the mentality and motives of the 'opposition'.
Then more lamenting that we should all be reasonable and do what's best for Ogden, and then some more mud slinging.
It's very tiresome to wade through your many, sometimes specious, arguments and insults.
Your youth and inexperience is showing.
Some excellent questions have been posed here that are crying for answers. About costs, infrastructure, drainage, due diligence, etc.
The mayor and Peterson did not address ONE of those issues Wednesday night!
Instead of talking about all the kitchenless students bonding, don't you think the taxpayers deserve facts and answers?
You see, not all citizens are blinded by the mayor's vision of Ogden being the Ski Hub of the West. How about Peterson considering building his gated community without touching Mt. Ogden Golf Course?
It isn't the mayor's to sell. I do like the idea of Peterson building all the gondola routes.If it's a done deal. However, no mention of access to McKay Dee Hospital.
We should be looking seriously at a trolly system....with Federal Money to spend on it!
A world class urban planner came here to talk to interested citizens (not one of the 'old' council and admin attended!) about doable things for Ogden to revitalize downtown AND make it a 'walking community".
Too bad you gondola supporters didn't come to hear Mr. Blackstone and get excited about other possiblities for Ogden.
The mayor told two other planners who offered to come here, not to bother; he had a plan and that he was going with his plan!
How arrogant and mule headed is that?
I just read from the foul mouthed anonymous...insulting sharon and Mrs. Jeske.
He referred to Mrs. Jeske as a 'worn out pool table'.....does that mean you realize she's a tough woman who has what you envy, and won't be pushed around by little punks....in other words, she has the 'balls' for the job?
Still patiently awaiting feed back on positive ways to get everything we want from peterson and this whole plan. I do not think it is the plans and the possibilities for our community that has some upset. It is the way it is all being brought to the community.So.... can we drop the sour taste of their methods and find a way to get his investment money and assure that the city does not get hung for any incomplete construction. There is much of benefit here. A little cooperation will get these rich cats to help fix the mess the city is in....ThanksRZ for acknowledging this effort at consensus.
One interesting thing about the spiffy new homes to be built on the golf course is the claim that they will generate $5 million annually in property taxes. For 400 luxury homes to generate that much revenue, they would each have to pay $12,500 per year in property tax. Using rough math based on my property tax vs. appraised value, that would put the undisclosed price tag of these "second" homes easily above $1 million a pop. It may be possible to build homes that expensive, but how easy is it going to be to find 400 people willing to pay more than a million dollars for a home (with no land) in Ogden, Utah?
I also fail to see how this project will truly benefit Ogden. The new housing will obviously inaccessible to the vast majority of Ogden residents. The gondola is not a feasible transportation solution for the working class core of Ogden. It is a novelty designed to make Ogden seem cool and whisk its affluent passengers over Ogden so they don't have to dirty themselves with the city below. Similarly, the "roadless" four-season resort will be out of reach for most Ogdenites, and the jobs (hotel, resturant, etc) that may be created are not exactly high quality.
Making Ogden into an uber ski destination is a nifty, lofty, questionable, and probably unachievable goal. Can't we just recognize that Ogden is a struggling historic railroad/industiral city with a rapidly growing hispanic population that happens to be close to a mountain playground? The Ogden area already has three ski resorts appealling to winter enthusiasts of every type. A Malan's Basin resort would almost certainly not be able to match the snow quality of Powder, the terrain of 'Basin, or the value and family-friendliness of Nordic/Wolf Mtn. Ogden's benches and mountains already have plenty of recreation opportunities, and focusing development efforts up there only further ignores the area truly requiring attention: Ogden's downtown core.
Sincerely, one Kentucky hillbilly (Weber County raised) old timer (26) who's probably single (married) with no kids in the area (2), retired (some day) and not worried about jobs (because I hate Ogden, of course).
Nothing wrong with making Ogden a ski destination and it is most likely "achievable." But that is only one face of Ogden, a face that should be to augment other faces this fine town has....the railroad, the scenary, the outdoors, the history of 25th, etc.
As for the Closed Gated Community: the 5 million in taxes is WAY over the mark. Property taxes alone DO NOT pay for the services required from the City. More thought and better math are needed here.
But, this "landgrab," as some are calling it, has yet to be realized and before it happens, I'm assured that a momentus Public Process will have been gone through. This is not a done deal and has a long way to go, as I hear that there are "certain people" watching and that the public WILL become involved.
WHAT ARE YOUR INNER CONNECTIONS, OGDENITE, THAT YOU ARE "ASSURED " OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, ETC??
ARE YOU PART OF THE ADMINSTRATION AND AFRAID TO REVEAL THYSELF, EVEN A LITTLE?
WE KNOW ABOUT THE WSU UNVEILING ON APRIL 19....WHAT ELSE?
WHEN ALL THESE THOUSANDS OF TOURISTS SHOW UP TO RIDE THE GONDOLA, WHERE WILL THEY EAT, SLEEP, AND PARK???
WASN'T IT GREAT TO READ ABUT THE 2 WSU PROFS IN THE SE WHO ARE HONORED? WSU IS MAKING IT'S MARK....AND GUESS WHAT? THEY'RE DOING IT WITHOUT A GONDOLA!! WHO'DA THUNK IT?
Mutch:
As promised, I'm offering my quick "analysis" of your proposal, which I believe can be briefly summarized as follows.
Chris Peterson would be obligated to construct at his own expense and transfer to Ogden city the completed "downtown leg" of the proposed gondola project, subject to specific architectural, aesthetic and design specifications, including "stops" at half-mile intervals.
In consideration for Peterson's construction of the lower gondola, Ogden City would transfer to Mr. Peterson the entire Mt. Ogden Golf Course property, to be developed at his own discretion (including the golf course redesign[?].)
Not too complicated, actually.
Although you mention "gifting" the golf course property, I suspect Mr. Peterson would insist on characterising such a transaction as a "swap" (an exchange,) in order to put a "cost basis" value on the golf course acquistion (for a variety of reasons, which involve book-keeping and tax obligations.)
(You've thrown in a suggestion that free passes be thrown in for Ogden citizens. That's a GREAT idea, I think. It would certainly appeal to the local townsfolk. Not a bad idea at all, if it could be sold the the Ogden administration, who would no doubt jealously view the downtown gondola system as a cash revenue animal.)
Before we get too deeply into brainstorming this idea, however, it seems to me a few preliminary questions need to be answered, among them these:
1) What is the actual value of the Mt. Ogden Golf course property?
2) What would be the actual cost of construction of a full-service public transportation gondola project? As you'll recall, the original projections, including a lesser number of "stops" than even you suggest came in at around $45 million. It was the elimination of numerous midway stops that allowed Godfrey's planners to pare the price down to the present +/- $20 million. Is the golf course property worth $45 million. I have my doubts.
3) What about the undeveloped WSU property? It's an essential part of the Peterson "plan," as we understand it. Surely the acquistion price will be substantial (even assuming the University is willing to part with it;) yet it wasn't considered in your "trial balloon." Would it be the obligation for Ogden City to somehow acquire this property for Mr. Peterson, or would that become Mr. Peterson's problem?
As the cost to be borne by Mr. Peterson would increase, the likelihood that he'd enter into such a transaction would be commensurately reduced, it seems to me.
It just seems to me we need to put a price tag on all the properties and contractual obligations before we even beginning the mechanics of the transaction.
Where is our old pal Realtor On Deck when we need him? We haven't heard from him in a while. Is there anyone among our readership who has access to the MLS and can run some "comps" on the subject properties, in order to provide us even a ballpark idea what they are REALLY worth?
This is not meant as a "critique," by the way. It's just that I don't believe we have enough reliable information... yet.
I'll note in passing that I agree with you on the necessity of developing viable public transportation as soon as possible. Our society has passed "Peak Oil,", and car commuters won't know what hit them when we seriously begin to experience the effects of depleted cheap oil resources.
Let's keep this discussion going. It's nice to have a positive and productive discussion here every once in a while.
How many acres is the golf course? Assuming it is not ready for building, what would the infastructure cost, and what would it cost to bring the infastructure down hill from the course up to speed for adding that extra load to it? As undeveloped land, I would guess the golf course is worth $300,000 per acre.
In any event, this idea floated by Mutch Noise (earily close to Mitch Moyes!) doesn't fly because it puts the citizens of Ogden on the line to pay for this gondola scheme. trading the golf course for the gondola aint any better than the citizens just paying for the damn thing directly!
I say if the Godfreyite's want the friggen gongolas then let them pay for them - all of it including the infastructure and damages to the people that own houses along the route, who's property values will go down drastically because of the towers, lines, and loss of privacy.
I doubt very seriously if Peterson has $500 million to plop down on this project. If he did, he would just quitely go about doing the damn thing without having his hand out to the public. The only reason all this is an issue is because they are trying to position it so that the already beleaguered tax payers will take it in the shorts for this idiotic idea.
The supposedly rich and powerful are trying to get their hands in our pockets to make this elitist fantasy of theirs fly.
This from the Ogden City Website:
"Mount Ogden (Golf Course)--18 holes on 140 acres."
$300,000 x 140 = $42,000,000?!?!?!?!
Gulp.
Bring back the streetcars!
Drive to the ski slopes, as you've always done. Snow is snow, and soesn't give a fig how you get to it!
Curmudgeon quietly points out that anyone either incapable of or unwilling to walk trails into the mountains above Ogden for spactacular views can drive to Snow Basin and take the enclosed gondola lift to the top. Stunning views. And you get to ride down too. I've done it with Ms. Curmudgeon for the full moon night rides Snow Basin offers in the summer, and I've done it just for myself now and then to sit in the lodge up there with a cup of coffee when I feel in need of some heart-stopping beauty at minimal expense of effort on my part, and I've taken visitors up, summer and winter, for the views. Imagine that.
I just saw an independent film at the Egyptian. Some action took place in Saigon....EVERYONE was zipping along on motor scooters.
How quaint...WE could be a Wee Saigon, Vienamese restaurants, open markets, scooters everywhere!
And, we're always being accused of not offering alternatives for Ogden's revitalization!
Thanks RZ for taking time to reiterate, clarify, and add to my comments.
The point is that, if CP will not meet this development structure we don't do the deal. He would then be stuck with his 1400 acres and no Golf Course to provide the development engine. He would be forced to sell or at least partner with whoever would do it the way the city needs it done.
I guarantee American Ski or Intrawest would take a very interesting look at the possibilities. They could also provide some idea of the value of this whole thing.
Ogden has put itself squarely in the submissive end of this deal being the one with the debt ridden debt course.
We should be in the driver's seat on this deal but unfortunately the city is letting CP be the guide for lack of doing a serious study of the possibilities. CP is dictating the limits of this yet the assets we have(Golf Course and proximity to the mountain) are limitless in potential.
I suggest there this is a plum like no other. New ski area are not developed every day, or every decade for that matter. That is the significance of all this. There must be several MAJOR resort developers around the world that would jump at the chance to develop what could be the best ski destination in the US.
I know the reactive will immediatly shoot holes in this idea. The thoughtful may want to seriously consider that the city of Ogden is supremely positioned to wrestle everything I have suggested and more from CP or whoever, it the city would just play hardball.
Mutch Noyes-
Do we really want Intrawest developing Ogden? They have pretty much destroyed Mammoth, just ask the flock of Californians purchasing second homes in Ogden Valley.
Quite simple, Ned: I go to city council meetings now and then. As far as revealing my alleged "inner connections," ya think I'm nuts?
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