By The Lovely JenniferHaving just read M. Godfrey's "guest editorial" in yesterday's paper, I must express my dismay. Back in November, the very same Mr. Godfrey expressed rather vehemently his feelings on how "un-scientific" the Weber State University research project regarding Mr. Peterson's development proposal was. Is he now thinking that his method is more scientific?
If Mr. Peterson wants input from the community, and Mr. Godfrey wants to keep it scientific, then why on earth did they NOT randomly (this, scientifically) select members of the community for input? They instead opted for the very un-scientific "investigator-bias" method of choosing certain (known only to Mr. P and Mr. G) members of the community, who for sure do NOT represent a scientific – and representative – sampling of all the members of the community Mr. Godfrey represents - i.e. the ones who voted for him.
I fear most of the "Community" Godfrey refers to in his editorial have been dis-included: The Flores family, the Tollini Family, the McLaughlin family and the Jones family from the neighborhoods around Ogden High and Central; the Neil family, the Smith family, the Taylor family from the north end of the Ogden community; the Wells and the Watts families who live near the canyon. They are every bit a part of Mr. Godfrey's community as are the Lindquist family and the Marquardt family and the Hall family.
All these families and more might appreciate being chosen to contribute input to Mr. Peterson. Invitations to some sort of town meeting might have been appropriate.
Then the process could be continued, once the developer and the community feel comfortable with the plans and the wants and the needs of all concerned.
Comments, anyone?
30 comments:
An aside to Bloggerite:
Weber County Forum Posting Policy
This will be on the test.
Have a nice day.
:)
Many posters have attempted to have a civil and constructive discussion here on the Malan's Basin and Gondola plans. The WCF vultures all swarm at any hint of constructive talk.
Up to this moment, much of the information available to both sides has been in pieces. Now there is a cohesive plan that attempts to cover all the bases in EVERYONES favor. It requires COOPERATION and CONSTRUCTIVE INPUT FROM EVERYONE.
The plans are still in a state of flux as any plans of this magnitude must be. Without some degree of flexibility and optional degrees of development the plan becomes to rigid and can be dismantled by a single leg.
If you read the paper, it is quite clear what is being proposed. Chris Peterson has made a substantial commitment already and his plans will be seen soon I understand. Up to this point you all on WCF are building your anger to a frenzy over the typical workings of preliminary studies.
If you are just, plain, "Against the Malan's/Gondola plans" So be it. You will have absolutely no constructive say in it's development. If you are willing to give it a look and see it has possibilities, then become part of the process instead of a thorn. You will be welcome. There have been no meetings in the city that would qualify as anything more than idea sessions. No deals have been made and no political alliances have been arranged. The mayor is attempting to bring people together. It starts small with the people you work with and know and grows from there. That's why there have been no public meetings. There is nothing to bring public.
Should that keep anyone from exploring engineering, equipment, proposed site plans or whatever. The mayor can take a family vacation and call it whatever he wants. By your measure if he takes a family vacation, and on that vacation, say, meets some businessman on a ski lift or in a restaurant or whatever. Does he carry on talking with this businessman and make no mention of our great city for fear that he may expose his family vacation to ridicule. I would expect the mayor at any chance he can get to be promoting our city, He is on duty 24/7. That's what I expect and he is doing just that. Instead of relying on handlers or paid "expert" consultants, our mayor is strong and confident enough to go see for himself what communities in other countries are doing to enhance their infrastructure and connect to their mountain recreational resources. Including those duties while skiing with your family is commendable. I applaud him for that and you should too. I prefer first hand experience in life and talking to the principals when it comes to business. Helps cut through the BS. I think the mayor feels the same way.
There will be many benefits to Ogden, and Chris Peterson has no intention, from my understanding, of altering access to that area. This development can happen and be of the highest environmental quality.
There are gated communities everywhere. They provide false security to the rich, so what. I wouldn't live in one, but if enough citizens are willing to see that this gated community and golf course upgrade does not alter any access than what is there to fuss about. So get involved and protect you r access. Chris Peterson has no intention of offending a community. The posters here are letting transference get the better of them.(See your Psych 101 text) They seem to assume Chris Peterson and the mayor are cut from the same ornery cloth as themselves. Sorry, not all the players in the world are as corrupt as you imagine. A few are sensitive enough to be listeners, you just need to have some thing of substance to say to them.
Hope I haven't offended your rulebook this time.
Lovely jennifer asks "who let this guy in..." sounds like exclusionary talk. Hardly the spirit of a community forum.
That's MUCH better, Bloggerite.
We'll surmise you've now read "the WCForum posting policy."
We welcome all viewpoints here, so long as they are rationally argued.
Flaming the entire board and especially your gracious host and blogmeister doesn't exactly get it, in the greater scheme of things, does it.
Welcome to the board.
We assume you'll behave yourself from now on.
Rudy. I think you cut this moron a pass when you condoned the term "WCF vultures."
He's a flamer and teenaged punk Godfrey scum and should be deleted and has no place in Ogden Society or human kind in general.
My cousins who run a business in Ogden were invited to one of the the mayor's secret meetings.
They said it was "creepy," and that he seemed to be giving them a "sales job."
I don't remember they're saying that Chris Peterson was there to get their input.
If anyone thinks these secret meetings are designed to gain input, I'm a clock.
The little slut Godfrey is trying to pre-sell his gondola project in the most crafty "used-car salesman" way.
Ogden City is a Republic!
I don't have to listen to you people until the next election; and then I have enough money and my Standard-Examiner mouthpiece and the east-side Ogden wardhouses available to instruct you on how to vote.
Screw you sodden people!
I have the vision; and you don't!
-Matthew
So much emotion; so many, many words. And it's really all out of our hands, isn't it.
Unless it'd done right.
"all out of our hands?"
You one dumb mofo.
LOL, Bloggerite!
Here's the motto of my own house, in which you insist on behaving like a barbarian:
Bene Dicte Benedicte!
If any pilgrim monk come from distant parts, if wish as a guest to dwell in the monastery, and will be content with the customs he finds in the place & do not perchance by his lavishness disturb the monestery, but is simply content with what he finds, he shall be received, for as long as he desires. If indeed, he find fault with anything, or expose it, reasonably, and with the humility of charity, the Abbot shal discuss it prudently, lest perchance God had sent him for this very thing. But, if he have been found gossipy and contumacious in his time as his sojourn as a guest, not only ought he be not joined with the body of the monastery, but also it shall be said to him, honestly, that he must depart. If he does not go, let two stout monks, in the name of God, explain the matter to him.
St. Benedict
Signed,
The Abbot.
Damn, I wish you wouldn't delete this guy's posts before I get a chance to read them! From the sounds of the replies, it sounds like someone's daddy has let him off of suspension and back on the computer.
And what is with you allowing this dumb assed post from one claiming to be Matt Godfrey, when you know very well it isn't him?
Well Jennifer, it is obvious that you are a nay sayer and/or from a radical special interest fringe group.
That means that you are not an Allen, Richards, Godfrey, Geiger, Hall, Lindquist, or any of the other IMPORTANT families in Ogden.
Which of course means that you and your nay saying opinion really doesn't account for much.
Why don't you just shut up and sustain your leaders like you are supposed to do? Are you an apostate? Well of course you are! Wise up before it is too late and you find yourself in purgatory.
There are important anointed ones that surely know more about what is good for you, and the citizens, than you and your rabble rousing friends do.
I'm sure you have other silly notions in your pretty little head also, like women's liberation and other such nonsense.
Why don't you just move to Salt Lake where your kind is apparently welcome? I hear they even have queer bars down there.
In his long disquisition, the one sufficiently civil to remain posted, Bloggerite wrote:
If you are just, plain, "Against the Malan's/Gondola plans" So be it. You will have absolutely no constructive say in it's development. If you are willing to give it a look and see it has possibilities, then become part of the process instead of a thorn.
So, let me see if I understand his requirements for civil discourse and having an impact: If you disagree with him, you "will have absolutely no constructive say" in things. But if you agree that his proposals "have possibilities," then and only then can you become "part of the process."
Uh huh. I've got it now.
Is the 'good in Ogden' site down AGAIN????
"Family vacation."..and just happen to meet someone like a gondola maker in a restaurant or on a ski slope? What are the odds on those coincidences???? Here's my $5.00....I'm in.
Is this the kid Bob G again???
Can't his daddy lock down his computer? Or, maybe he'll just show up at council meeting and mouth off again.
Weren't you lamenting someone being 'exclusionary?" How do you justify saying there are QUEER bars in SLC???? Hmmmm? Do you frequent them? AND know their addresses?
As a former domestic violence exec dir.,I have sheltered a few homosexuals who were battered by their lovers.....pretty vicious damage done to them. If you frequent 'queer' bars, I suggest you keep your, uh,....LIP buttoned!
Might save your life. In fact, if you don't get yourself into some anger therapy, you should stay out of bars altogether. Cowboys can give a hell of a beating too!
You hint that you know a lot about the mayor's plans and meetings and motives. Tell him this will you?
Grow up...stop sneaking, lying, dealing in the dark, and perhaps he'd be a real leader if he'd just take a nap once in a while. He doesn't have to be on duty 24/7....is that in the small print?
Reread your Psych 101....your youth and insecurities are showing again. Takeadeepbreathandcountto10...ifyoucan.
Pull you mummy head out of the coals, "barbecue," and read the whole message....you one rare done piece of meat.
"COMMENT DELETED!!!!"
What hath you wrought?
Bloggerite, how naive can you be? "The mayor can take a family vacation and call it whatever he wants. By your measure if he takes a family vacation, and on that vacation, say, meets some businessman on a ski lift or in a restaurant or whatever. (Oh, yeah, and that businessman just offers to pay his hotel and meals for him while he and his family are in Europe!! Wake up, Dreamer!) Does he carry on talking with this businessman and make no mention of our great city for fear that he may expose his family vacation to ridicule. I would expect the mayor at any chance he can get to be promoting our city, He is on duty 24/7. That's what I expect and he is doing just that. Instead of relying on handlers or paid "expert" consultants, our mayor is strong and confident (Yeah! Look up in the sky! It's a bird! No, it's a plane! No, it's Super Godfrey!)enough to go see for himself what communities in other countries are doing to enhance their infrastructure and connect to their mountain recreational resources. (Right! Got to spend those tax dollars while he can -- it doesn't make sense to meet with the same lift company at one of their U.S. offices! Come on! That's not what a good, consciencious Mayor would do! Never!) Including those duties while skiing with your family is commendable. I applaud him for that and you should too. (oh, I can hardly wait to applaud him right out of office!) I prefer first hand experience in life and talking to the principals when it comes to business. Helps cut through the BS. I think the mayor feels the same way." (Boy, you've got to have the real thing! And Godfrey gives you the real B.S. pile! Be careful, bloggerite, it's pretty deep, don't drown in it. We'd miss your posts being removed all the time. Such language for such a naive little lad! Tsk! Tsk! A family vacation and just happen to meet the manufacturer of one of the world's leading lift providers. Wow! Can I sell you my old worn out cowboy boots, bloggerite? I'll cut through the BS and tell you them boots have got a lot of good wear left, they're all broke-in and really comfortable! I knew you'd want them if you believed what the Mayor has told you!! Oh, My! I'm sure glad that you're a follower of the Great Godfrey, then you won't do any damage trying to be a leader.
Got to correct the supposed "Matt Godfrey." "Ogden City is a Republic!!" Wrong! It's not been a Republic for over six years now -- how about a monarchy? Are we counting the days, the hours, the minutes, the seconds until January 7, 2008, 12:00 Noon? YES!! Then Godfrey will be rendered harmless. Oh, Happy Day!!
This long piece by "Bloggerite" is very strange to say the least! Is he the one who is also posting all of the "deleted" comments?
He says: "Now there is a cohesive plan that attempts to cover all the bases in EVERYONES favor. It requires COOPERATION and CONSTRUCTIVE INPUT FROM EVERYONE."
Later in this rambling piece he seems to be justifying why the plan has not been made public.
" there have been no public meetings. There is nothing to bring public"
This seems to suggest that everyone should just fly on blind faith and cooperate with a mayor who has repeatedly lied to the public!
It is obvious that this person thinks it is perfectly OK for the mayor to lie to the council and the public! Like this long string of BS about just meeting some one on a ski lift (in London?),
"The mayor can take a family vacation and call it whatever he wants. By your measure if he takes a family vacation, and on that vacation, say, meets some businessman on a ski lift or in a restaurant or whatever. Does he carry on talking with this businessman and make no mention of our great city for fear that he may expose his family vacation to ridicule. "
I mean really? The mayor told a few members of the council he was taking a family vacation to London. The city paid for his trip to Italy and Switzerland and some Gondola manufacturers paid for his hotel and food. He went with Peterson to check out gondola's for hells sake. HE LIED about the whole thing Bloggerite! Are you totally clueless? And this isn't the first time he has lied through his teeth to the council and the people of Ogden. The guy has a problem and so apparently do you if you can't see it.
You and the rest of the godfreyites seem to have a totall disconnect from reality. A mayor lying and conducting secret meetings, and plotting against the citizens of his own city in a bizarr quest for a goof ball scheme is just plain immoral.
Ogden is being hijacked by charlatans my friend, and you are one of them!
bloggerite - IF I read yoru piece correctly, this is all ready a done deal. Do you know something we do not?
I know something that you may already know that the mayor may not have to wait to get out of office, just keep breaking those laws that you seem that are out of reach for others that have to obey.
This bloggerite kid hangs out in daddy's office and listens to the grown-ups talk...maybe hides under the desk?
He can't wait to get on this site and spill everything he Thinks he knows. It's so heady and exciting to personally KNOW the mayor and HIS father-in-law, the power behind the throne on the 9th floor...ta daaah! Ed Allen!
You know how some 'parents' live vicariously through their children!
Get a clue, kid. You're in with a bad crowd. But, you're young enough to turn your life around. Stop talking like a fish (falling hook, line and sinker for matt's schemes), and a bully...denigrating women especially. Oh yeah, and Queers in SLC.
Tsk, tsk. You being in those back rooms listening to deals in the dark, keeping the lights off so the cockroaches feel free to do their nasty work, makes us ask as Closeau did, "what is the matter weeth you? Are you bliind?"
Come into the light, B Boy, and find redemption.
This bloggerite kid hangs out in daddy's office and listens to the grown-ups talk...maybe hides under the desk?
He can't wait to get on this site and spill everything he Thinks he knows. It's so heady and exciting to personally KNOW the mayor and HIS father-in-law, the power behind the throne on the 9th floor...ta daaah! Ed Allen!
You know how some 'parents' live vicariously through their children!
Get a clue, kid. You're in with a bad crowd. But, you're young enough to turn your life around. Stop talking like a fish (falling hook, line and sinker for matt's schemes), and a bully...denigrating women especially. Oh yeah, and Queers in SLC.
Tsk, tsk. You being in those back rooms listening to deals in the dark, keeping the lights off so the cockroaches feel free to do their nasty work, makes us ask as Closeau did, "what is the matter weeth you? Are you bliind?"
Come into the light, B Boy, and find redemption.
It is rather amazing that "bloggerite" claims to be in the know, and on the inside of these secret meetings, yet is so fundamentally contradictory and confused in his evaluation of thie proposed project.
This person seems to be either very disengenuous or very dumb, or both. One part of his analysis contridicts the next. For example:
Paragraph 1 says:
"Now there is a cohesive plan that attempts to cover all the bases"
Paragraph 2 says:
"The plans are still in a state of flux as any plans of this magnitude must be."
Then Paragraph 3 has the contradictions back to back::
"If you read the paper, it is quite clear what is being proposed. Chris Peterson has made a substantial commitment already and his plans will be seen soon..........Up to this point you all on WCF are building your anger to a frenzy over the typical workings of preliminary studies."
So in one stream of babble we have a "plan that is quite clear", followed by "plans that will be seen soon", only to find that we have been in "a frenzy over the typical workings of preliminary studies"!
Wow, If this is the caliber of thinking within Godfrey's inner circle we are all in big trouble!
Frank -
As "Dilbert" said on this site a while back:
These people will never have to worry about being conflicted with reality"
They just merely create their own.
In re: shutting out the general public. Lift Ogden will hold a meeting this week for Chris Peterson to present at least a portion of his plans to Lift Ogden members. Unlike previous Lift Ogden meetings, it will not be open to the public. So says the Standard Examiner story on the meeting in today's paper. [Tuesday 28 March].
Not open to the public. Imagine that.....
Doubtless tomorrow Hizzonah the Mayor will inform us that the meeting was in no way secret, it just wasn't public and he can't tell us what was said there.
They remind me of dogs chasing their tails til they are dizzy.
Godfrey's apologist and cheerleader, bloggerite, can't keep his own equilibrium either. His PR piece is full of contradictions....plans in a state of flux....ready to be made public...Peterson committed, not committed, nothing secret, just friends putting their ideas in the wind to see which way they blow.
These people are pitiful
See the SE article today about the speaker at WSU in favor of preseving natural beauty, and not for gondola? Matt had last word tho...his legacy will let us all see the nountains. I do everyday...I just look at them from my windows!
Bet you didn't know that CAVES HAD windows!!!
I attended the city council meeting tonight, and Doug Stephens read the article in this morning's Standard Examiner about the Lift Ogden meeting, and then stated that he was concerned that public property is being discussed in a private meeting.
Quite a bit happened there tonight, including a bombshell or two---will try to write it down and post it for you.
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