Bob G.'s Question & Answer Session
Before we open the WC forum discussion on this topic though, we can't resist commenting upon a paragraph in Bob G's discussion that we find to be more than slightly unnerving from a taxpayer's point of view:
It is my understanding that the land must be sold for fair market value. The city cannot give it away. Further, from a financial standpoint, we must take into consideration the value of the overall package to the city. Maybe someone out there would be willing to pay more for the land than Chris Peterson and then continue to run it as it is currently being run---$320,000 loss to the new owner rather than the to Ogden, City. However, his one-time purchase will provide Ogden city with a single influx of money. Chris Peterson's plans will generate a significant tax benefit to the city while still offering the city fair market value for the course. The current discounted value of Chris Peterson's future payment streams to the city in the form of taxes, plus the fair market value that he will pay to the city, plus the other economic investments that will come in response to Chris's investment are what we need to consider here. I'd be interested to meet the buyer who will pay the current discounted value of Chris Peterson's perpetual $5,000,000 tax stream to the city, plus the fair market price that he is going to pay for the land, plus a very modest estimate of future investments that would accommodate Chris's investment and then sit on the land as it is currently being used, losing $320,000 per year.While Bob gets off to a fairly good start by remarking that the 140-acre park property "must be sold for fair market value," he then rambles, spirals and descends into a hopefully fuzzy analysis, disjointedly mixing in concepts of business valuation, tax increment streams and "other economic investments," etc., and does this vaguely enough to entirely negate his encouraging opening sentence and render the rest of his answer useless.
With all due respect to the enthusiastic Mr. Geiger, it seems to Weber County Forum that determining fair market value of the Mt. Ogden parcel "ain't all that complicated." All that's necessary is to find the price per acre for comparable sales of undeveloped east bench property, and apply it to the Mt. Ogden property. That's how realtors do it. That's how real developers do it. That's how the taxpayers should do it, assuming for sake of argument that the property will be sold at all.
The term "fair market value" is a term of art, by the way, susceptible to uncomplicated definition.
In that connection, several readers in an earlier comments thread calculated the value of the assumed 140 acres at $45 million, based on comparable sales prices of Davis County bench property. And a recent Std-Ex reader letter pegged the value at $100 million*, based on the price per acre value of the 20 acre Golf City property, which sold within the last week or so for $6 million. If the Mt. Ogden property is to be sold at all, it seems to us clear that it should be sold only at fair market value, i.e., a price comparable to those of other similar properties in the area. I suspect that price will be far more than Chris Peterson is willing to cough up, and that this is the reason Mr. Geiger waffles on the subject of fair market price.
Professor Dorsey raises some interesting additional questions re the "valuation" of public parklands too. What would be the fair market value of Yellowstone Park, for instance... or Yosemite or Canyonlands? Mt. Ogden is regarded by many as a unique local park treasure, after all. Can it honestly be regarded as just another run-of the-mill Ogden City real estate asset? SO many questions; so few answers.
Other than that, we'll leave the analysis up to our gentle readers. It's YOUR forum after all.
(*We calculate a $42 million value [based on the Golf City sale] -- Perhaps the reader was also taking the 150+ acre WSU property into account in his $100 million calculation)
Update 4/17/8:20 p.m. MT: The gondolists have dragged out their "big gun" lawyer "mouthpiece" to duel with the college perfessors. Somebody musta struck a nerve, I guess. Gawd do We ever love Ogden city politics.
Ramming the gondola project down the citizens' throats is obviously a "mission from God" for the entire Allen family.
This is definitely "getting good."
We will resereve our own comments for later.
What about it gentle readers? What other comments and observations are you willing to "ordain" on this subject?
37 comments:
Make up some far fetched "facts", then build a big case to spend a grundle of public money on some goof ball scheme based on those very same "facts"
ie - There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so lets charge in and spend a billion bucks a month and several thousand American lifes finding them.
or
These here Buick Roadmaster's will get 100 miles per gallon, so lets spend several million dollars of public money to convert the city fleet of auto's.
or
This Gondola Scheme will make every one in Ogden's houses go up in value by 400%, so lets charge forward and let Peterson save us and make us all rich - with our own money!
or
If we get a couple more 3 man start up ski companies to move to Ogden all of our problems will be solved and we will all be rollin in the dough!
Reading Geigers financial analysis is like reading Lil Abner's treatise on Nuclear physics.
Ozboy:
"A grundle of money." Love it! A word is born!
As for the Gondola Scheme raising house values here to Park City and Aspen levels....well, I've suggested to the True Believers they could probably acquire Chateau Curmudgeon as is for only four times what I paid for it four years ago. You'd think they'd be eager to buy in so low. But no takers so far. Can't understand why...
Well Mr. Curmudgeon, I would love to take credit for giving birth to a new word, but alas I cannot.
Grundle is a word used herebouts for many years. It basically means a "shit load", or lots and lots, or a pile of, or tons of, etc.
Is Ed Allen the new city lobbyist? Is he being paid a 'grundle' of dollars or a 'grundle' of 'get in on the ground floor NOW, 'oops, board the high flying gondola to riches and fame?
BTW...didn't we read that the gondola can only handle winds of 35 mph??? That seems like a lot of down time. Maybe riders will be enticed to sit in the pub or grille while waiting for the winds to stop roaring through the canyon?
Will there be refunds on tram fares? How many days a season will the gondola be unable to go up or down depositing these thousands of enthusiasts?
So many questions...so few factual answers.
The gondolas at Snowbasin rarely shut down for high winds. I don't really have any facts for you, but I've been riding there since they installed them and only had them shut down while I was there. There's my 2 cents!
Oops! Only had them shut down twice!
I can only speak for myself on this post, but I have seen the financial sheet for the Mt. Ogden Golf Course -- it does not lose $320,000. a year. It has NEVER lost that much! Last year the cost went up substantially over previous years, as has been the trend for the past five years. The amount being quoted is inflated as are all the figures concerning this project except for the estimated cost of the gondola, and it is underestimated. The worrisome concern about the cost of the gondola is that in checking the cost of other gondolas across the country, they have all run over the estimated cost. The gondola in Portland, Oregon going to the University is extreme out-of-control management of that project. It started out costing around $20. million, but the cost has risen to $57. million due to unforeseen problems and poor planning. With Ogden's construction history and overrun costs, the cost of the gondolas is a grave concern to me. The details are still so blurry on this proposal that I feel it is premature and downright scary to ask people to support it. As I've told the Administration before, I have to have ALL my questions answered to my satisfaction before I can give ANY project my support. I appreciate the Mayor meeting with the Council last Thursday night during our work session to give an idea of what is being proposed, but apparently the Lift Ogden group received more information at its presentation Friday night than the Council did the night before.
This is such a major project and decision for Ogden that it behooves ALL of us to do our own "due diligence" and not believe the figures that are being thrown to us. Everyone should take an interest and become involved in this proposal. If this project is successful for the Administration, I strongly feel that certain guarantees and rights to the City of Ogden are imperative to safeguard the City and its taxpayers.
I am delighted with and wish to commend those who have taken the time to contact me by email ( jeske4ogden@comcast.net) and phone, both pro and con, about their concerns with this proposal. And I wish to encourage others to become involved -- it only takes a few minutes to contact the Council: email - citycouncil@ci.ogden.ut.us or phone 629-8153 and leave your message with Mavis.
Since I am considered one of those "CAVE" (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) who always tear down and never suggest anything, I would like to suggest that since, as I've been told, we have a talented, energetic and knowledgable golf pro at Mt. Ogden, that we give him the opportunity and means to use those assests and turn the Mt. Ogden Course into a great and playable golf course, even if it means some realignment as Chris Peterson thinks. Let's give him the chance to make it a profitable course!
Also, instead of waiting for Ernest to decide to come to the table, let's beat the bushes for other businesses that would locate in the River Project area. Ogden DOES NEED more retail and businesses DOWNTOWN to increase its tax base NOW -- not years from now as would happen with Chris Peterson's proposal.
Councilwoman Jeske:
Thanks for the update. Do you think you or someone else could provide some detail about golf course "losses" since the advocates of the program make so much of the claim that it loses 320K a year? Be nice to have some hard figures to use in reply.
Keep hanging in there.
If the property Mt. Ogden park should be sold at all, Bernie, it should be sold at readily ascertainable fair market value, yes?
Please assure us you don't disagree about this.
Your newly-appointed Lift Ogden Chairman seems overwhelmed by this concept. He's been spouting gibberish on the subject here on this blog.
We're so glad you checked in on this.
Maybe you can esplain why yer buddy Chris Pterson should get more than a 50% discount on the 140-acre Mt. Ogden Parkland property.
Thanks in advance for your explanation.
We taxpayers await your answer with abated breath.
Hey Bobby G., you never did tell us what exactly your contribution is to the Tax base in Ogden What's the payroll for Descente in Ogden? How many employees do you have in Ogden? How much in taxes do you really pay into the economy, or do you just whore your self out as the Mayors lap dog and call it good enough?
Anon:
What Bob G. contributes to the Ogden economy, or how many people Descente employs is absolutely irrelevent to the question under discussion. Which is: is the gondola/gondola and attendant scheme to sell Mt. Ogden Golf Course for residential development and to finance for Mr. Peterson a Malan's Basin resort a good idea for Ogden or not. If it's a good idea, it'd be good if the Geigers had an Odgen payroll of five or five hundred. Similarly if it's a bad idea, it'd be bad if they employed a thousand here or two. What matters is the merits [or lack thereof] of the plan, not who is advocating it or opposing it.
Shame on C.S. Lewis! I hoped that even the dirty mouthed LO's would rise above such underhandedness as to blackmail Glassman into supporting Godfrey, Allen, Geigers', Peterson and their other slavish followers.
It appears that the more desperate the LO's become, the meaner they are also.
Hang on, Bill. You have many supporters who know you won't cave.
Just more proof that the LO's don't have a good deal for Ogden..or it would stand, or glide, on its merits.
People keep asking for proof of studies, Peterson's experience as a developer, and why do the 'plans' keep changing with each new telling?
Some apologists have said that Godfrey 'really does want what's best for Ogden'....sorry, I can't buy that. If he really does he wouldn't be sneaking around town, Europe, and back rooms trying to put together deals that he hasn't shared with the taxpaying voters.
Godfrey, it seems, just cannot tell the truth, at least not the whole truth, to do so may diminish him in his own mind.
I haven't witnessed anything in the liitle lord's behavior that convinces me that everything he does, he doesn't do for himself.
'tiredofgodfrey', the numbers of tourists come from thin air and fertile, fertilizer rich brains. Geiger Sr, (and the son) have insisted that 10% of 3M of those driving by on their way to other vacation spots will be clamoring for a gondola ride...just like Ms. Jeske pointed out that the $320,000. annual loss at the golf course is also a grossly inflated number.
Godfrey's management style has always been crisis mode while repeating any story that sounds good, to him, at the moment. Say it often, say it loud, and the suckers will believe and buy it. Or, shall we say, Pay for it??
Snake oil...and the Geigers' and Allen, et al are the shills working the crowd.
YES! Let the golf pro have a crack at the course...and ask some of the golfers for their ideas on what would make the course more playable.
Ole, now that you've let us know about the winds and lifts at Park City...what can you tell us FACTUALLY about the high winds and the safety in a gondola in these parts?
Not many years ago, winds were clocked at 113 mph at WSU and several large trees were uprooted.
Thank you so much.
And C.S. Lewis....your attempt to blackmail Bill Glassman is not in keeping with the honorable, compassionate REAL C.S. Lewis.
Rudi:
You wrote: Update 4/17/8:20 p.m. MT: The gondolists have dragged out their "big gun" lawyer "mouthpiece" to duel with the college perfessors.
Hmmmmmm. Does this mean we can now say the Lift Ogden folks have "lawyered up"?
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Pure Brilliance Jeske,
Let the golf pro try and turn the golf course around. Why didn't any of us think of that before?
Come on! Wake up! Why won't any of you open your eyes to opportunity that is before us here in Ogden. I'm sure Glad that we have Dorrene on our side. "beat the bushes for more business" Do you have any idea how many bushes have been beat over the last 5 years? No one wanted to come to Ogden because it had very little to offer, besides cheap rent or cheap comercial buildings. We have at our door steps an opportunity that will put Ogden on the map, Please consider the options here.
Let's get back to the facts. 1) The gondola is impractical, a streetcar is a much better fit for Ogden. 2) A resort on the west side of the mountain does not make sense. Why do you think there are few, if any, west side resorts in America? 3) Reconfiguring the golf course and building a gated community at Mt. Ogden will take away from the natural beauty that the area offers-the golf course, park, and trail system there will be adversely impacted and the project will truly only benefit a handful of wealthy folks. I am a young urban professional who lives in Ogden and loves Ogden for what it is, while I am hopeful for its future, I do not want to compromise Ogden's assets for dollars. The ski industry will not save Ogden. I own a home in Ogden and I am raising my family there, do I want to see it become the next Park City? NO! If I wanted to live in a Park City, I would live in Park City.
Im telling you Chris knows what he is doing.
I don't know him personally, but I know a bit about him. He is a sharp guy. He has done extensive research and studying on SKi Resorts, thruout the world.
The project will minimally compromise the asthetics of the hillside, while making all of the public trails more accessible to more people, as well as increasing the amount of things that the common Ogden citizen can do on the mountainside. I'm having a hard time seeing too many negatives here
Anonymous said: "Im telling you Chris knows what he is doing.
I don't know him personally, but I know a bit about him. He is a sharp guy. He has done extensive research and studying on SKi Resorts, thruout the world."
Sorry, Anonymous, studying and research don't equal experience. What other projects has Chris developed? I would like to see some bone fide creditionals from the guy. He may be a first-rate guy, but what kind of a developer is he? I would like reassurance that he isn't going to file bankruptcy half way through the project after he gets his hands on prime Ogden land and the Mt. Ogden Golf Course. We know that he doesn't have the backing of his daddy-in-law, Earl Holding, so who are his backers? If he is doing this project alone, then let's have proof that he has the finances to see it to completion. A notarized statement by his accountant or bank verifying he has the required assets would be helpful.
I can't believe how willing some of you are to give away Ogden's precious jewels without some sort of guarantee of what you will receive in return. I am sure glad that you are not sitting on the Council, making the decisions for the City! I take my hat off to Jeske for being a conscientious caretaker of our irreplaceable assets.
We know there was flooding of the homes below the golf course when it was built, what steps will be taken to prevent such a reoccurrance with the new development?
Has there been a geological study done on the proposed WSU site? How stable is that ground if there is known slippage below on Skyline and Country Hills Drive?
If Chris were as sharp as you claim, I would think that he would have these reports in his hands before he starts negotiations for the land. I'd like to know the results of these studies.
Let's get all the facts before we go off half-cocked, people. I have more questions, but let's answer these first.
Interesing news from Ogden-Raptors.com:
The Raptors have been running a Non-Baseball Fan Poll over the past week, and the response had been great in the amount of hits (votes). The Poll is in regards to the proposed Gondola/Golf Course development spanning from downtown Ogden to the top of Malan's Basin. We decided to put this poll up since the outcome on the proposal will have a major impact on the way things are done downtown. We want to get your opinion.
While the poll was running with over 60% of you in favor of the project, someone decided to skew the results by voting is such a way that the opposed votes equaled the favored votes. This action took many votes from one single person over a long period of time. We can actually see who is doing this and we know who you are. Please refrain from voting more than once per day. We want an accurate picture, not one that is marred by someone's agenda. Actions such as this will not give us actual results.
We have reset the votes and ask that you behave. Any further mis-behavior will result in that person being removed from our Newsletter data base or the expulsion of having Fan Polls all together.
Thank ou for your consideration.
Raptors Management
In the hope [probably baseless] that we can, from both sides of the issue, spend a lot less time talking about personalities and personal characteristics [real or presumed] and a lot more time talking about facts and evidence in support of our vaious positions, permit me to recommend the site below. Since the Gondola/Gondola scheme depends on a successful ski resort in Malan's Basin and since Mr. Peterson of late has started to compare the Malan's projected resort favorably with Brighton, the Sierra Club has posted up on its website a side by side comparison of Brighton and what Mr. Peterson is planning for Malan's Basin. It is, I think, instructive.
Malan's Basin: Better than Brighton?
Let's get back to the facts. 1) The gondola is impractical, a streetcar is a much better fit for Ogden. 2) A resort on the west side of the mountain does not make sense. Why do you think there are few, if any, west side resorts in America? 3) Reconfiguring the golf course and building a gated community at Mt. Ogden will take away from the natural beauty that the area offers-the golf course, park, and trail system there will be adversely impacted and the project will truly only benefit a handful of wealthy folks.
Your facts are skewed.
1)The streetcar is not ia suitable transit option from downtown to WSU. The wholesale destruction and redevelopment along it's corridor is not in the cards for ogden. We already have tons of land and buildings begging for redevelopment. No need to creat a 3 MILE LONG ZONE 3 BLOCKS DEEP for a streetcar route. Study your transit.
2)No west facing resorts...Really..
Vails Back bowls are all SOUTH FACING. over 1000acres. Mammoth has Chair 14. Faces WSW. Mineral Basin at Snowbird...Need some more examples. Some have complained there is no intermediate beginner terrain. That hasn't kept other expert oriented resorts form thriving. In fact all resorts make out best from fresh snow and challenging terrain. It is experts that drive this industry.
3)The golf course needs the upgrade, The area is hardly THAT beautiful with HUGE powerlines and criss-crossed by many feral trails. Enough some dumping. Come on be honest here. Just because these trails lead up to the beauty of the mountains further up the canyons doesnt mean this foothill area is pristine. It needs some attention.
Mutch:
Since you are complaining about opponents assuming facts not in evidence, permit me to note that when you write that the trolley "is not a suitable transit option from downtown to WSU" you fly in the face of the Wasatch Regional Council study which concluded that it was not only a suitable transit option, it was, among those studied, which incuded the gondola, the most suitable option.
Secondly, you claim the trolley is not suitable because it will involve "wholesale destruction and redevelopment along it's corridor". It will, you say require "a 3 MILE LONG ZONE 3 BLOCKS DEEP for a streetcar route" where that "wholesale destruction" will presumably take place.
Sorry, Mutch, but I've read the Wasatch Regional Council study. Several times. No where does it suggest that Ogden will have to level current businesses, homes, etc. three blocks deep on either side of the trolley line. Have baseless scare tactics now been added to your arsenal? I've found exactly no one supporting the trolley alternative who thinks it will, or should, lead to wholesale razzing of existing properties three blocks deep on either side of the line. What's next? The claim that trolley lines cause acne and the heartbreak of psoriasis in riders?
1)The streetcar is not ia suitable transit option from downtown to WSU. The wholesale destruction and redevelopment along it's corridor is not in the cards for ogden. We already have tons of land and buildings begging for redevelopment. No need to creat a 3 MILE LONG ZONE 3 BLOCKS DEEP for a streetcar route. Study your transit.
2)No west facing resorts...Really..
Vails Back bowls are all SOUTH FACING. over 1000acres. Mammoth has Chair 14. Faces WSW. Mineral Basin at Snowbird...Need some more examples. Some have complained there is no intermediate beginner terrain. That hasn't kept other expert oriented resorts form thriving. In fact all resorts make out best from fresh snow and challenging terrain. It is experts that drive this industry.
3)The golf course needs the upgrade, The area is hardly THAT beautiful with HUGE powerlines and criss-crossed by many feral trails. Enough some dumping. Come on be honest here. Just because these trails lead up to the beauty of the mountains further up the canyons doesnt mean this foothill area is pristine. It needs some attention.
1) Thanks for telling me that I need to study my transit. You're in favor of the gondola so now you're the world's expert on transit. Get a grip. Ogden's streets are wide enough that you do not need the wholesale destruction you are talking about to create a streetcar route. If the destruction you are talking about is necessary (I would like to see the design if it is) to build a streetcar route, then Bus-Rapid Transit is an option. I use mass transit every single day, and I am telling you that I will not use the gondola, nor will my transit riding counterparts. It does not make sense. Also, where on earth are all of the students coming from that will use the gondola from downtown to WSU? You guys are living in a dream world. Thousands of students will not flock to WSU just because there is a gondola or a new resort.
2) The area is not suitable for a resort, you are in denial.
3) The golf course might need an update, but not a gated community. The area isn't that beautiful? It is to me and many others.
Yo Mutch:
You are coming across as stupid and clueless as your nameake Mitch!
Opposite agenda's, same dumb ass logic.
It is necessary to rezone a Transit district to high density in order to get federal funding if you read Jeffery Boothes site and the fed site. That is the detail that UTA left out and that no one understands. Yes this rezoning and developpment may be a good thing for one another but this will not be done in Ogden and it is ridiculous that it continues to reemege as an option. A downtown streetcar district perhaps, but not Downtown to WSU. It's not the streetcar that takes up a 2-3 block swath it is the development. Again this development and the streetcar may be a good thing but right now Ogden has too much underdeveloped property and to create a district designated for higher than present density is impractical and will only create more of a vacuum.
How about getting the mall started and finished and attracting those many businesses we were promised once the flow rider and climbing wall were our main attractions? They were to bring revitalization and prosperity to Ogden.
Oh what short memories we have.
Once the gondola has the taxpayers bolted to another bond....Matt will spring another dream on us.
One nightmare at a time please.
BTW...good letters and grrreat cartoon today in the SE!
If you go to any fairly large city with a "grundle" of people in it that are moving about, you will see a lot of busses going to and fro. If you go out on the streets in Ogden (a pretty small town all things considered) you will find very few busses in comparison.
Seems like this city transit problem has already been solved, doesn't it?
So this entire discussion about trolley's, light rail, gondola's, etc, as it applies to Ogden, is really just a silly exercise, isn't it?
This whole thing is nothing more than a red herring thrown up by the Godfreyite's in a lame attempt to get this idiotic ego monument built in order to remind the future generations of one small little wanna be with a desperate need for fame.
We do not need some multi zillion dollar mass transit scheme. All we need to do is add a new bus each time the one's we already have get full. Check it out, the occasional bus that you do see on the streets of Ogden are 90 percent empty as it is!
Mass transit? As it applies to Ogden, it is just another bunch of bull shit thrown out by the little one on nine to justify spending our tax money to further his desperate need for greatness.
This little jerk off with the great big ego has already caused more harm to this fine town than all of the past mayor's in our history. If we can put up with his evil nonsense another year and a half, we will finally be free of him. I for one cannot wait to see him exit in shame.
There is an easy way to at least somewhat solve the question of whether Malan's Basin is suitable for a ski resort.
How much snow is up there right now?
I understand that it is Spring right now, but all the open Utah resorts (including Brighton) still have WELL over 100", and most of the others closed last weekend with WELL over 100". If Malan's Basin is suitable for alpine recreation, surely there must be AT LEAST five or six feet of snow on the slopes (as wet as this year's been). If the slopes are bare or almost bare, we need to either scrap the plan or change our license plates.
In reviewing old entries to this blog, I came across an incredible mass tansit solution for Ogden. It was several months ago, and was submitted by Ozboy.
It certainly makes a lot more sense for Ogden than this Gondola project does. It also does not require us to trade off our precious park lands.
With thanks to Ozboy, and hopefully with his blessing, I copy that great idea here:
I would like to announce a new and revolutionary mode of mass transit that will not only solve the transportation problem in Ogden but will revolutionize the whole industry. This incredible new idea will finally put Ogden on the map and make us famous the world over. People will flock to our College and surely make it a major University with a fabulous football team. Companies from all over the world will rush to Ogden and our real estate values will sky rocket. Every current Ogden property owner will reap millions in the escalation of their property values as every clear thinking investor and future home owner on the globe will be hungering to own property here. The supply and demand equation will kick in and the demand side will be off the charts. Rich people from New York will be competing to send their kids to college at Weber because we will be the only place in the world to have such a revolutionary system AND a world class restaurant named Roosters. The college will start a fabulous new course in this method and we will send out missionaries around the world to teach our exclusive techniques of people movement to the masses. Unimaginable wealth will poor into our city and our property taxes will become property rebates instead. Our city government will actually give us money instead of taking it!
The method will be known as the SLING and SLIDE mass transit system or SASMASTS for short. The details are proprietary of course but a brief overview is as follows:
The "Slide" portion will be the easiest. It will consist of shoots or sluices running from the Weber University terminal, located at the Football stadium, down to Harrison, then north to 25th street. From there it will run west to Washington where it will have a very thrilling hard right banked turn which will take the passenger to the first exit at the new Matt Godfrey Mall (MGM). At the MGM there will be an extraction device that will be similar to the old mail hooks that snagged the mail from stationary poles unto fast moving trains. It will be in reverse of course as the passenger will be in motion and the hook will be stationary. There will be shock absorbing devices built into the system so that the passengers will not undergo more than a 6G force upon extraction.
From the MGM the special built SASMASTS cars will proceed on to 23rd where they will take another high speed turn, only this time to the left, and on to the terminal at the Intermodal HUB where it will be stopped by a large pool of water. The over all experience will be similar to the Materhorn ride at Disney only better and longer. It will be quite exhilarating and the world wide word of mouth will be all the advertising necessary to make it a resounding success.
The more difficult part from an engineering point will be the SLING portion of the SASMASTS. It will also be the most exciting part. However, it will paradoxically be the least expensive to construct. The initial point of entry, or "launch pad" will consist of a special cement pad for each destination where the passenger will stand. The destination choices will be the MGM, the University Stadium (starting point for the Slide portion), and Malan’s Basin or Snow Basin (inspite of what Earl Holding wants)
The passenger will be hooked up to the launch device by a leather patch similar to, but larger, than the pouch one finds in the classic sling shot. This patch will in turn be attached to very large rubber bands that will extend out and be anchored to high metal poles. The passenger will then be lifted up and moved back a calculated distance by two underprivileged, but now employed, Ogden minorities. At the right moment the passenger will be released and "slung" toward his destination - be it the MGM, the University, or either basin. The "flight" will be exhilarating to say the least, and will have the added bonus of instilling life long memories.
At the destination end of this revolutionary new transportation system will be large nets to "catch and release" the passenger and send them onto class or slope.
There obviously will be some necessary engineering problems to overcome and it is anticipated that we may suffer numerous casualties until we can perfect the complicated calculations to account for different wind, weather and weight factors we will encounter. We do not anticipate this to be problematic however as we have a very large population of poor and ethnic inhabitants to draw from for "volunteers" to use as test subjects. Their sacrifice for the common good will be appreciated by the community and we will memorialize them by putting their names in small letters on the the large rubber bands and leather pouches.
There are a few details to be worked out but we have full assurances from the Mayor and City Council that the plan is feasible and they are very excited to push forward with full scale development at the earliest possible time. Because of the revolutionary nature of this new system, the administration has deemed it unnecessary to entertain any public input and they have appointed Bishop Reid to be the administrator at an annual salary of $1,650,000.00 per year retroactively to 2001. In addition he will receive a generous signing and resigning bonus and will not actually be required to spend any of his valuable time being involved.
At this time there will not be any private investment allowed as the city tax payers will be picking up the development costs and Bishop Reid’s advance salary requirements.
From our now rich and famous Ogden family to yours, we wish you very happy "Slinging and Sliding"
To Ozboy and Turdust:
1. Ozboy: you don't plan mass transit systems to deal with existing population distributions. You plan them ahead of time to deal with anticipated population distributions. The arrival of commuter rail to downtown Ogden in just under two years now if all goes well will change the transit needs of the city, and the trolley system, or RBT system are being discussed for development now to deal with the consequences of the commuter rail's arrival. It is much much more difficult [and expensive, as a rule] to put in a transit fix after population over-stresses the existing system than before. And more disruptive as well during construction.
2. Turdust: as for your plan about checking Malan's Basin for snow now, it would not necessarily indicate much of anything. This has been an unusually wet season all along the Northern Wasatch front. For example, normal moisture fall in April is about one inch. We've had over three inches already this April. What's needed to determine the viability of a resort at Malan's Basin is a study that looks at the average depth of ski-able snow over time. A one-time measurement no matter when it is taken and no matter what it shows won't establish much of anything. Which, again, is why I am puzzled by the lack of a feasibility study on the Basin, or the apparent lack of one. Odd that Peterson has not offered one up in support of his plan.
Peterson himself has stated that skiing is not the primary function of his proposed resort. It is simply a mountain resort. Some People do go to the mountains just to stay and enjoy the setting. There is too much speculation whether this is viable as a skiresort. He says, who cares. It will be a MOUNTAIN resort.
As for enough snow, The windward side of the mountains recieveas much as 50% greater snowfall than the leeward. See Kuaui for evidence of this phenomenon. Rainiest place on earth. One need only view Malan's from a telescope from west Ogden and you can clearly see the snowpack. You may even be able to see the treetops of the 10' tall scruboak poking through for some indication of the snowdepth.
Curm, I understand CP has been observing Malan's for more than a single season.
Stop printing your campaign leaflets, Curm!
OZBOY is our new choice for mayor!!
Slide N Sling....priceless.
It occurs to me that all the discussions here have probably alerted Peterson to new 'facts' and ideas he may not have thought up by himself.
The newest may be that the Malan's Basin will not be a skiing destination...but a MOUNTAIN RESORT!
Let's keep our ears open today and be on the alert for that new twist at WSU.
Mutch:
You're missing my point. Or I'm making it badly. One or the other.
I don't know if there is enough good snow long enough year in and year out to make a ski resort at Malan's Basin feasible. I have no idea. Might be. Might not be. I've talked to people who insist it's just fine, and others who say it's not. [Both sets of people are skiers who've been there.]
My point was that the City should require what any prudent banker would require before putting serious money on the table for the project: an assessment of the feasibity [climatological and financial] of the mountain resort end of the project, conducted by someone who does not have a dog in the fight. I don't know any prudent bankers [still in business] who would accept a promoter's pitch as sufficient of itself to justify an investment of this size.
Since the city end of the gondola scheme absolutely depends upon the success of the ski resort [or mountain resort if you prefer], it seems to me the city should insist upon, up front, the same kind of external feasiblity study that a bank would insist upon before putting serious money on the table.
OzBoy....Your Slide and Sling transportation method must be patented!
It also deserves to be run in the paper. I'm not sure that the SE has enough humor among its editors to appreciate it. Send it to the TRIB Kudos!
Any one who does not whole heartedly endorse and embrace Ozboy's brilliant mass transit solution is nothing more than an uninformed naysaying obstructionist! They probably have inferiority complexes and they for sure hate Ogden.
Ozboy is surely right up there as a great visionary with the Browning's, Eccles, Glasmann's, Wattis', and other industrial giants in Ogden's history. This will put Ogden on the map more than any other single thing in history. At least half the 20 million people a year that drive by Ogden on I-15 will surely pull off and visit this marvelous and innovative mass transit solution.
We will have to build 10 or 15 new hotels and several additional High Tech Rec Centers to accomodate the masses of people who will be trying to get to us. A new multi runway international airport will be required in Ogden to handle the millions of foreigners that will be flocking to our city. Every property owner in Ogden will make million's with the expodential growth in our property values.
If mayor Godfrey does not see the pure genius of this solution to all of Ogden's problems, then I certainly do not believe he deserves to be mayor. If he does not start imediately to implement this great idea, then he himself is the real nay sayer. He will become known world wide as the "Nay Sayer Mayor"
Common Ogden, where is your vision?
Ponzi...where is your sense of the ridiculous? REAL humor, I mean.
NOT the mayor's vision....which is ridiculous.
I hate to be the naysayer to Ozboy's ingenious system, but I'm not sure it will be suitable for "people of all ages" (said in feel-goody CP style). I can already imagine all the people who will be turned away by the cardboard likeness of Mayor Godrey saying, "You must be at least this tall to ride the SLING and SLIDE."
It appears that this Sling and Slide project could be just the ticket for Ogden. I know I like the Matterhorn at Disney land much more than the gondola. I never see lines there for the gondola, but the Matterhorn always has them lined up around the block.
Has any one thought about how much money home owners in Ogden could make off of the advertising rights for their roof's? It could very well be a big profit center for every homeowner in town, especially those directly under the flight paths on the Sling portions.
I am wondering, if after this S&S transit system is up and running can it be expanded to launch people toward other places of interest - like Pineview, Powder Mountain, and most of all for workers to get back and forth to Hill Field? Also what is the maximum range we can expect from this system? For instance, could it be expanded for people that work in Salt Lake? It could certainly shorten the commute time between Ogden and Salt Lake considerably.
And has the city looked into how to deal with the people (especially women) who have a fear of flying?
All in all, this new proposal makes a lot of sense. Of course there are still a lot of questions that haven't been asked or answered yet, but I am sure that our good mayor, if he gets behind this wonderful idea, will be able to make short work of them.
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