Is the present sitting Ogden City Council hopelessly infected with the RDA Disease?
Dr. Rudi's initial medico-political professional diagnosis: Yes.
We couldn't believe our eyes when we read this Std-Ex story .
The moribund and Godfrey-lackey city council apparently agreed last night to borrow the Shupe-Williams wind-fall insurance payoff from Ogden city, and to plow it all into the Ogden City-Godfrey Real Estate Crap-Shoot.
Did they vote to apply it to the rotting water infrastructure, whereby some Ogden residents get big chunks of red metal, when they try to pour a glass of water from their kitchen taps?
No. Ogdenites will continue to pour their tap-water through seives, and recycle the metallic chunklets @ Bloom Recylers.
Did the council decide to apply this $2.5 Million to some of the overhanging public debt that currently plagues this city?
No. They'll take the Shupe-Williams windfall and roll the dice at Wendover. Bobby Geiger will be whispering in their ear. "Screw the infastructure," Bob will say. "We can go properly broke later."
Is there even a reason to HAVE an Ogden City Council?
No. They are now a pack of brain-numbed Godfrey rubber-stamp lackeys, just like the LAST city council.
Most of the current council seems to have caught Matt Godfrey's RDA disease, we believe. It appears to be highly contagious, according to recent local epidemiologico-political evidence.
The RDA will borrow the $2.5 million windfall from Ogden city, and apply it to the ridiculous Godfrey "River Project" without even batting a blurry eye.
Then Godfrey will re-sell it to a developer croney at a loss; and claim he's a friggin' real estate genius. That is Godfrey's proven MO: "Giveaway Godfrey," they'll call him in the history books!
Applying this chunk of windfall money to the Riverfront Project is worse than reckless, we submit. We at Weber County Forum are assuming that the councilpeople who voted for this were in some kind of Godfrey-induced stuporous hypnotic coma and will be later able to supply an exculpatory note from their psychiatrist(s) to explain this logical aberration.
Wethinks there will be several other city councilpersons ejected in the next election, along with the evil Mayor, Matt Godfrey.
It's truly sad that we can't just eject this whole corrupt and mind-numbed bunch right now, and fill their 8 seats right away.
Well... we can't do that, unfortunately.... the government has rules about kicking out incompetents.
This is something we predict, however.
The rest of them -- Safsten, Stephenson and Godfrey will be looking for private-sector jobs by late November 2007.
None of the new council, nor any of them who were elected most recently (Jeske excepted, and Stephens, possibly) will ever be elected to Ogden City public offices again.
Ogden city is tired of "wimps."
We'll keep politicking until we elect a slate of candidates who are fiscally-responsible, morally straight, have a "set" of "brass...youknowwhats..." and also know the meaning of the word "NO."
And that's our post for this day, thank you very much.
The time of reckoning is dawning, we think, sooner for some,... later for others.
Comments, anyone?
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49 comments:
That was by me ;)....and it was NOT said in jest. I could not have been more serious. Unless he is just "pretending" when he writes on here, I believe we need him and six others like him. Afgain, I am very serious.
Rudi's criticism this time may be a bit over the top. The fact is, this Council has been constrained by several actions take by the former Council. Like it or not, the old Council committed the city to the Riverside Project, and a lot of city resources were thrown into it. Same with the downtown rec center projects. I'm not sure that pulling the plug on them now is the course of wisdom. I don't know if shunting the Shupe/Williams insurance money to the River Project at this point is a wise move or not. But it does seem to me that reasonable people might see it as wise at this time, particularly since the Earnest money has not materialized. I'm not willing to take this decision by itself as evidence that the present Council members have become simply Godfrey lapdogs. [I realize some who post here would be quite happy to see the River project and the Rec Center and Mall Redevelopment Projects sink like stones. I am not convinced at all that that would be in the best interests of Ogden's citizens. My own hope is that they are fantastic successes --- please, I said hope not expectation --- and that they generate all the anticipated tax revenues and then some. I don't see that at this point Ogden gains anything by having them fail. In light of which the Shupe/Williams insurance decision may be a prudent one. ]
By the way, on a not entirely different topic, editorial in the SL Trib today states that Utah law does not permit recall votes for elected officials like mayors. Bills to make urban elected officials recallable mid-term were introduced in the last sessions, but failed. So, as Rudi suggests, for those not happy with the sitting members, the only recourse is the next election. There are no other options under current Utah law. [Since recall and impeachment proceedings having been suggested here from time to time, thought I'd point out that they are not options now. In the future, if the law changes, perhaps. But not now.]
"Rudi's criticism this time may be a bit over the top."
Ahem!
Rudi merely collects and analyzes the available data.
He merely presents supportable hypotheses for further analysis, especially when his web stats software reveals page hits are many and reader comments are few.
;-)
heheh.
[Grin]
Rudi, your last post sounds dangerously close to the wit and wisdom of Harry Truman, who, when told he was becoming known as "Give 'em hell Harry" replied: "I don't give 'em hell. I just give them the facts and they think it's hell." Or something like that....
Virtually quoting Harry Truman. You are making good progress. Whenever you're ready to come over to God's party, aka the Utah Democratic Party, let me know. I can arrange safe passage past the pickets on the skirmish line. I know people.
[grin]
What was the vote last night on the 2.5 mil going to the River Project? Did Jeske and Stephens vote 'no'?
I think the money should go into the infrastructure and other badly needed areas of concern...and that damn mall should be completed before ANYTHING else has money poured into it!
Why do we keep reading about 'investors' for the River Project, & Shupe Williams (now empty) land, but they are never named...'at this time'?
So, what are Neilson and his buddies of Fat Cats Bowling fame up to? Are we ever going to see that thrilling flow rider?
How about Miller? Couldn't Godfreak get his signature either?
BTW, saw a billboard today that advertised GOLFCOURSE homes "in the $200,000. 's" NOT MILLION dollar footprints.
Rudi, your post is rather harsh, especially considering that you were not at the Council meeting last night. The room was full, and a great many of the people were from the River Project area. As one little lady stated, "The City asked us five years ago to sell our property to them. Since then our lives have been on hold. Five years! We don't know whether to fix the leaky roof or not! That is a long time to hang in limbo. Get with it and buy us out or cut us free!" All of their comments had the same tone -- their patience is wearing thin, and who can really blame them? It was revealed last night, that some of them had bought another place, and so they were stuck with two mortgages!
I feel that the Council DID listen to the people! The Council was told that there are several businesses who are interested in building in that project. If the Council didn't make the money available to buy the options on the land which expire May 3, they may have lost the opportunity to buy that land altogether, and many of the people indicated that if they had to renegotiate, the price would be much higher.
The Council is often placed between a rock and a hard spot, and in this case, I feel that they made the sensible decision.
Sometimes I'm at a loss as to what would please some of the people who post on this blog. The Council is damned no matter what they do. Maybe some of you should sit in those Council Seats for a while and see if you really would have voted any differently when you are presented with all sides of the issue and have more information than you currently have. Before you give your snap judgements, remember the old Indian saying: "Walk in another man's mocassins for _____ (I don't remember how many) moons before you judge him."
Wouldn't that be fair, Rudi, or wouldn't you get as many "hits" on your blog?
Been there, done that Brett.
I'm going to let you in on a little "secret."
My own family's property was locked up in economic limbo similar to the Riverfront situation during the mid-nineties, when four properties we owned for three generations were targeted by the Ogden RDA for construction of the Money-Pit Eccles Conference Center "project."
The "kind thing" would have been for big government to have just "cut us loose" early on. This would have saved the taxpayers lots of money in the long run, too, if you were to take the David Eccles Center "profits" track record into account.
For four years, we couldn't even lease any of the properties, even with "free rent," so long as the heavy hand of government planning hung over us. What merchant would ever lease a building, after all, with Joe Stalin standing on the sideline with "project blueprints" and a perceived wrecking ball?
We would have been fine, if the Ogden City government had just "butted TF out."
We finally "caved," with at least four attornies in tow and on payroll; and we eventually tranferred away four properties that had supported a whole extended family for generations, and contributed to at least nineteen undergraduate and advanced university degrees.
The same is true, I'm sure, for the Riverfront property owners. They would be fine, if the government had just "cut them loose" and "butted out." Without the evil government hanging over them with another lame project, their properties would be viable and marketable.
The Riverfront property owners should have been "cut loose" last night, if not well before. They would do just fine in a free real estate market from the time they were "cut loose."
Instead, Right-Wing socialist Ogden Big Government prevailed, and will fritter away its insurance windfall, and fatten its already obese real estate portfolio.
I'm sorry. But I have no sympathy for the argument that any of these property owners should have been "bailed out;" and I'll remain hypercrital of the present city council's action last night, wherein they acted as if they were doing somebody a "favor."
The "kind thing" would have been to kill the Riverfront project once and for all... and to let these property owners fend for themselves in the free market.
Believe it or not, I know a hell of a lot more about the plight of the Riverfront property owners than you ever will, because of my own experience.
Like I said... been there; done that.
Next!
On this general matter, interesting essay in the Sub-Standard Examiner this morning. A Froma Harrop column from the Providence Journal, talking about conservatives' seeming inability to resist the siren song of developers/promoters and the resulting paving over and destruction of liveable city neighborhoods and public properties.
Here's the money quote: "Conservatives from modest backgrounds seem so easily intimidated by business interests. Some developer wants to bulldoze their lovely landscape, and the local conservatives many initially join the resistance. But then the moneybags developer calls them elitist or some other code word for liberal, and they immediately cave."
And this appears in the same edition of the SE that is running a full page "infomercial" by Hizzonah, our Republican Mayor Matt Godfrey [paid for by commercial interests] on the silver-bullet gondola plan which will cure poverty, urban blight, joblessness, the problems with our schools and doubtless eliminate acne and tooth-decay too, while making Ogden into the new Park City or Aspen or Vail or Albuquerque or whatever the story is this week over in Lift Ogden Land. Veddy interesting as they used to say on Laugh In....
We complained about the last council when they behaved irresponsibly, and we'll do the same with the present one as well, when they display symptoms of the dreaded RDA disease.
To do otherwise would be hypocritical, we think.
The $2.5 million insurance windfall, if it is ever paid at all, should be applied to the dilapidated infrastructure or toward our massive mountain of RDA debt -- period.
The council's most recent action is not encouraging to those of us who expected our new council would "stop the madness," and demonstrate a little common sense and fiscal discipline.
Does any one have the correct figures on the River Front project? Specificaly how much the city and or RDA already had invested?
It seems to me that if the tax payers of Ogden did not already have a significant financial stake in this project, that the smart thing would have been to cut the whole deal loose once and for all. Let the free market prevail! What a novel idea here inside the Godfreite experiment.!!
What did the screwed over property owners in the project area want? Seems like their best interest should be highly considered being that they are the ones that have payed some sort of price already toward Lord Godfrey's "greater good" theme.
Ain't it funny how the people that are always called upon to make the sacrifices for his "Greater Good" are not in his inner circle of important ones? Why is it always the poor and the middle class of Ogden, the property owners below Harrison, that have to pony up to the whuppin post so's that the rich folks, and the skiers they want to hang with, can have a cushy free ride? Why do you suppose it always works out that way wth this Little Lord?
Also, what was the vote, and who voted for what?
It's truly sad that Hissonor doesn't seem to learn from his (numerous) mistakes.
As stated in the original post, Mayor Matt seems to have bungled nearly every chance provided him to enhance Ogden. Unfortunately, he surrounds himself with folks from outside Ogden whose visions are store-bought (or at least acquired in some college lecture hall), not earned through experiance in Ogden.
Equally unfortunate seems to be the stubborness of his in-laws (a former state Senator) who continue to do the Harry Redd look-alike bit of twisting history and falsifying and manufacturing facts.
I would guess that Ogden will continue to languish in obscurity and poverty until the "east-benchers" wake up and participate in their political-party-of-choice, and realize that not everyone who claims to be a Republican actually is. (Some county officials are, even now, suspect, not to mention the recently departed Dutch Belnap, applicant for County commission.)
But when that happens, imposters like Hissoner will leave, tail between their legs, and actual doers will again be able to apply to lead the city.
"Rudi, your last post sounds dangerously close to the wit and wisdom of Harry Truman..."
Flattery will get you everywhere, Curmudgeon.
Truman talked straight and shot straight. His style is well worthy of modern day emulation.
Interesting parallel event happening in San Francisco along these same lines. The Bay View area is being slated for redevelopment by the city. Here are some of the comments from Bay View residents regarding this proposed redevelopment:
If your intent is to benefit the 34,000 people of Bayview Hunters Point and not to sacrifice them to entertain and house the idle rich, then listen to the people who live here now...
...listen to the words of Redevelopment Agency Director Justin Herman himself. In 1960, he said, “(C)ritics will rightly condemn urban renewal as a land grab for the rich and a heartless push-out for the poor and non-whites.”
Is that the legacy you want to leave?
Bay View is primarily a black community, and the piece I am referring to compares the redevelopment push to ethnic cleansing. Absurd as this may seem on the surface, this is probably how it appears to the residents there.
Also in the same local publication, there is a chapter of a book about the effects of redevelopment. One positive thing about being ten years behind the times is that we can learn from others' mistakes. We can learn a lot from the Portland Aerial Tram debacle, for instance, and we can also learn a lot from this:
Once a redevelopment project area is created, all property tax increment within it goes directly to the agency. This means all increases in property tax revenues are diverted to the Redevelopment Agency and away from the cities, counties and school districts that would normally receive them.
While inflation naturally forces up expenses for public services such as education and police, their property tax revenues within a redevelopment area are thus frozen. All new revenues beyond the base year can be spent only for redevelopment purposes.
In 2001, this revenue diversion was just over $2.1 billion statewide.This means over 10 percent of all property taxes was diverted from public services to redevelopment schemes. Even with modest inflation, the percent taken has roughly doubled every 15 years.
That is why redevelopment projects can successfully gut city services. Inflation makes those costs rise, while the taxes from the redevelopment areas are not available any more to pay for those services.
And here's what's happened because of this in California:
In 1994, the Los Angeles County Grand Jury released its exhaustive report on redevelopment, calling for more public accountability and citing its negative effects on county services. The County of Los Angeles general fund had lost $2.6 billion to redevelopment diversions since 1978...
...Saddled by its heavily indebted and now defunct Riverwalk plan, the Garden Grove Redevelopment Agency reneged on $2 million owed to local schools, until threatened litigation restored the funds...
...n 2002, the Placentia-Yorba Linda Unified School District successfully sued the Yorba Linda Redevelopment Agency to recoup up to $240 million in lost property tax revenues. With a $775 million indebtedness, the agency had diverted school funds to build golf courses and shopping centers.
Faced with lost property taxes, school districts have slapped steep building fees on new residential development, thus passing the burden of redevelopment onto new homeowners and renters...
...Advocates also claim that redevelopment agencies do not raise new taxes. While narrowly true, the agency tax increment diversions starve legitimate government functions of necessary revenues, thus pressuring tax increases to make up the shortfall...
...Tax increment financing is a growing drain on funds intended for public needs. It has confused and distorted state and local finance, resulting in a Byzantine maze of diversion, augmentations, pass-throughs and backfills that have shortchanged both our schools and city services. These property taxes – $2.1 billion annually – must be recaptured from private interests and restored to the public interest.
This is one of the best and most concise things I have read on the pitfalls of redevelopment. That is why I'm with Rudi on this one---project after project simply represents drain after drain on the available money for services. Our taxes go up, as they already have, and our quality of life goes down, as it has with the cuts in local services.
And like Mr. Herman, I would ask--Is this the legacy you want to leave?
At the end of the excerpt, which is here:
Redevelopment: The Unknown Government
There is a note that the entire book is available online. The quotes from citizens in Bay View can be found here:
Stop the Tanks! Stop the Redevelopment Plan! What's Your Rush?
Dian:
Another excellent post.
However, my understanding is that RDA takings for private development have now been banned by the state, que no? So another "River project"is no longer possible. The discussion then for us is limited to whether the existing River project should be continued or we should pull the plug on it. And I don't have anything like the kind of information I'd need to know if that's a wise move or not. I don't know, for example, the answer to Ozboy's question about what the city has invested so far, what the finanical consequences of backing out now would be [as opposed to anticipated benefits from going on], etc. Sometimes [and as I said I don't have enough information to know if it's true in this case], once you've committed to something, the best thing to do is to see it through to the end because the consequences of pulling the plug are worse.
As for RDA takings for private development: I stand with the state legislature. Absolutely not. No. Never by use of eminent domain authority. That should be reserved for unquestionably public purposes like highway rights of way, and the like. NEVER to assemble packages for private development. Never.
"However, my understanding is that RDA takings for private development have now been banned by the state, que no? So another "River project"is no longer possible. "
No.
Although "condemnation takings" have been banned by the legislature, the bulk of Utah RDA law survives; and tax increment dollars may still be diverted by local RDAs for projects like the River Project, which would be acquired by conventional means (purchases.)
Dian's points are thus well-taken. Ogden citizens need to educate themselves about the RDA Redevelopment Monster.
Rudi:
OK, thanks for the clarification. So, the only thing banned then is use of eminent domain for RDA aquisitions. Straight voluntary sales of properties within RDA zones to the city for development and sale to private owners [and the resultant re-direction of tax increment revenues] stands unamended.
In light of which, I'd have to ask the question others here, clearly more knowledgeable about this than I am, have asked repeatedly: if the redevelopment project is so attractive and likely to succeed, why are not private developers competing to take it on with their own funds? City involvement could [and should I imagine] be limited to commiting to up-grading of streets, public utilities, park areas within [if included in the plan], etc. I.e. matters that are unquestionably municipal responsibilities.
Thank you, Dian.
OzBoy and I have asked if anyone knows the vote Tu. night? Anyone dissent?
Is it possible for the council to revisit this issue and vote NO?
What are the homeowners being paid for their property? More or less than if they'd signed on with a good realtor?
Att'y Max Miller, SLC, is (or was) working to abolish RDA's!
What, exactly, is going to BE the River Project? More unidentified investors? What is the PLAN? Does anyone know?
WHAT is going on at the old mall?
I stand with Rudi and Dian as I indicated last night. Ogden is in need of repair! We can't be Aspen, Park City or Vail when our citizens drink rusty water! Shame on you, Matt Godfreak.
So many unanswered questions.....
In answer to several of our readers' queries, it appears that the council vote was unanimous, 7-0, in favor of adopting the resolution to apply the insurance settlement money to the purchase of the Riverfront properties.
We've listened to the Ogden City website's audio file of Tuesday night's council meeting. There were no dissenting council members.
The wma audio file is available here, for those interested in reviewing it themselves.
Query: If you're going in the wrong direction and you stay the course, just exactly where do you wind up?
wow Rudi. You are truely special and knowledgable. Which great uncle's cousin did you know who's home was locked up in the eccle's conference center debacle? I know it wasn't yours.
anonymous is nasty
Hey, here's an idea: why don't we earmark the annual profits from the Conference Center [i.e. the revenue it generates annually AFTER it makes up the million a year the city spends to subsidize it now --- I think that's the number the Mayor used in discussing the city's woeful revenue situation while pitching the gondola as a solution] to building the city leg of the gondola. Provided, of course, that no construction can begin until the Conference Center has generated, in profits, at least 75 percent of the anticipated construction costs, which sums have been placed in an interest-bearing escrow account.
Shouldn't the excess revenues from one can't fail publically funded project be used to finance another?
I know, I know. I'm not a nice person.
nicer, and smarter too, than anonymous.
There really are quite a few questions about this one, given the situation that the city has held these residents hostage for five years with this "pending" project.
As Mercy said--What is the PLAN? This is something we really ought to know. During the Ernest episode, I heard some people saying that the PLAN certainly did not include a hospital.
We now know that for a city to do something counter to its General Plan, that General Plan has to be amended, and that involves a public process. Is it the same with RDA plans?
Second question: Are all residents in the Project Area happy with the idea of selling their homes to the city? Or might eminent domain again rear its ugly head? Even though there is a law against this now, what about taking some of the homes from people who refuse to sell to build a road through there or something? I mean, it still could happen.
Third question: Are there legal constraints placed on the use of that insurance money that the city must follow?
Four: Is there a chance that the residents who want to sell could sue the city for damages entailed by stringing them along all this time were the city to renege?
If the answer to Four is yes, we have here another tidily manufactured situation in which the wishes of the administration have become "the only thing we can do," in addition to the ever present deadlines, options running out, monies soon no longer available, that we always see in these deals.
This to say that these are some reasons why this might not have been an easy decision for the Council.
However, the administration should have been pinned down. (Perhaps it was--haven't listened to the audio.) What is the plan? Who specifically are the businesses interested in locating there? How firm is all of this? And most importantly....
Could $2.5 million have been used to better advantage and greater benefit for Ogden elsewhere?
As you know, I don't like RDA projects as a whole. I think there's a lot wrong with the concept, not the least of which is that governments just don't seem to do as good a job in this area as the private sector does. And Curmudgeon raised a good point---why has the private sector simply not come in? Because they're not interested, because they're holding out for tax dollars, or because they're being kept away and/or turned away because the area is designated to be a specific government project?
I really do not see why, if businesses or developers are interested in an area of Ogden, the local government feels it has to get in there and buy that property first, (at a loss to our tax dollars,) and broker the deal. Businesses and developers are perfectly capable of approaching property owners on their own and making their own deals.
Some of the whining we have heard in the past few years is to the effect that they Won't come in, that they have to be enticed with incentives, dollars, and increments. I say nonsense to this. (For one thing, I'm not sure we want huge development to come in.) But Ogden is one of the few places left to expand to. And when light rail comes in, it is possible that so will people, businesses, and developers, probably more than we can handle.
And what will it be like with shaky infrastructure and cut public services then?
By the way, since all Council members voted in the affirmative for this, any one of them could bring the vote up for reconsideration in the future should new information come to light.
Dian...good news that that any council member can bring up this issue for reconsideration! I hope one will!!!
I met a man at the County Convention last week who told me he had met with the mayor to talk about his business plan. He wanted to come to Ogden...he's not a resident now. He said that Godfrey was 'extremely rude and arrogant' to him! So much for a welcoming business climate, eh?
Do we all recall Godfrey blaming the NEW council for not only running off Ernest, but destroying Ogden for the 'last 30 years!"???
If our infrastructure is not taken care off NOW, we could not handle an influx of tourists, let alone a slew of new businesses.....AND (drum roll here) 400 new gated homes.
We have to insist, demand, and push that the mall is finished in record speed...just like the PLAN was foisted on us in the first place.
Does anyone have any idea which businesses will be occupying space at The Junction? Are there any signatures anywhere?
I understand Boyer has their condo's/apts signed for occupancy. What WILL those people do for entertainment? Walk to Newgate to the show? I thought the idea was that those families would enjoy the ambience of living downtown where all the action was taking place outside their doors and they could walk to dine, see a show, and shop!
That 2.5 Mil WINDFALL should have been used to benefit the citizens.
Don't you wonder how Matt's sycophants can look at themselves in the mirror? One would think that a man of honor would have handed in his resignation a lonnng time ago. Being associated with Godfrey and 'yessing' his rape of Ogden should make those minions squirm with shame.
Well, I went over to Good in Ogden site and wrote a short note. I used my name. Put in the word verification 3 times and the post still didn't show.
Not much there anyway.
THE SHUPE-WILLIAMS FIRE IS STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION!!!
OGDEN OFFICIALS ARE BEING OVERLY
OPTIMISTIC ABOUT RECEIVING THE
SETTLEMENT IN FULL!!!
WHAT SHALL THEY DO IF THE INSURANCE
COMPANY REFUSES TO PAY??? WHERE WILL
THEY GET THE FUNDS TO REPAY THE LOAN???
HERE WE GO AGAIN.
I am not in urban planning, and am howlingly ignorant about real estate values. However, I suspect that once the commuter rail reaches Ogden, there is going to be a residential real estate boomlet downtown, and some significant construction in apartments and condos. If that happens, then businesses to service the new population will follow very quickly, including entertainment venues.
What I am wondering is, if we are not involved in a which came first, the chicken or the egg debate. Hizzonah & Company insisting if we build it [the Rec Center e.g.] they will come. I suspect in the real world, it runs rather the other way: if they come, we will build it. But we shall see. I suspect the coming of the railroad will again be the major driver of both business and residential development down town. Nothing solid to go on, just a hunch. [Hey, does that qualify me to propose selling off the other Ogden municipal golf course at the mouth of Ogden Canyon to build 600 residential units to finance a new trolley line up the canyon to Powder Mountain? After all, it will make Ogden the only city in the land linked to a ski area by trolley. We'd be unique! Park City'd be a ghost town in a year, two tops!]
Hmm. Has anyone else noticed that the esteemed Curmudgeon, now considered for public office, is suddenly coming forth with redevelopment plans and schemes of an infinite variety? Although they are far more creative than what the current administration has come up with, it is still worrisome. This RDA disease is definitely a disease, a highly contagious disease, affecting those involved in any way with public office. Or even thinking of it.
Oh, Curmudgeon.
We will probably hear from him of other plans and schemes involving development and transportation before it runs its course.
Curmudgeon----Best Wishes For A Speedy Recovery!
Guys, I believe the Council thinks that they are using that $2.5 million where it will do the most good now and in the long run. Those poor residents were there Tuesday night to encourage the Council to remind them that they had been living in limbo for FIVE YEARS! Ozboy is right: these were mostly middle class to poor people. They weren't like your family, RudiZink, who had a slew of attorneys to fight for them. They had been waiting for five years for the City to do something! The Council did the right thing by them. Also, there are some other points to remember:
1. The City has exempted the school district from the RDA taxing protocol on most of their projects, so that they are not hurt by the RDA projects. Dian, this should make you feel better.
2. Another Council several years ago made that whole area an RDA project. The City has invested at least $600,000. in the options which it stands to lose May 3 if the options are not used. Some of the residents told the Council that no way would they sell their property for what they had agreed to.
3. The City already owns some properties in the project area. I don't know the amount that was paid for them, but they are part of the RDA project, so that money would have been lost, if the new Council had turned its back on the project.
Dian, to answer your question why the City steps in between the current home owners and the new business owners is because, most of your business owners don't want to pay fair market value for a piece of property that has a building on it that will have to be demolished at his expense before he will be able to start to build. The City steps in and clears the land. Look at the mess that the City has had because the land was not properly cleared as they thought. Do you think a business owner would stand for the added expense that Ogden has had to pay to clear that old mall site.
Another thing, Dian, I don't think that you could honestly say that the City was guilty of "ethnic cleansing" in the River Project, as I did not see one Hispanic at the Council Meeting Tuesday -- I know that doesn't mean that there are none in that area, but there were a lot of "white" people.
Considering all the above issues, I believe that the Council would have been fiscally irresponsible if they had not voted as they did. I am sure it must have been a hard decision to turn their backs on those old water pipes, and hope that they don't have a crisis before they start to see sales tax revenue generated in the River Project.
Brett,
You seem very knowledgable. Perhaps you know who/what is going into the River Project?
Do you know what the PLAN is? It's been discussed here all day, but no answers yet.
What do you know...what have you heard?
How many homeowners were involved Tues night who will be paid off?
Also, do you know When/What/Who about the Junction??
Thank you.
If, as you say, Brett, "those poor residents" were already paid $600,000 for their options... then they had already been well-compensated for their five-year troubles... hadn't they?"
Nevertheless, they managed to shake down the council again Tuesday night by showing up en masse, heaping on the "guilt," to extract an additional "full price" property purchase commitment, something that was NEVER promised in their original options agreements. Not a bad night's work, I say.
On top of that, the taxpayers will soon own MORE downtown property, which will soon be removed from the tax-rolls, and tied up in yet another bone-headed highway-to-hell Godfrey scheme.
God save the Ogden City Taxpayers from our current "feel good" Ogden City Council.
What the hell, Brett. The anticipated $2.5 mil insurance claim is "free money" anyway, right?
Sheesh!
So here we have this blogmeister, Rudizink, calling for the ouster of every council member in the upcoming election and then stating unequivocally that the “new” councilmembers, with the exception of Jeske and possibly Stephens, which leaves only Glasmann, will never again hold public office, simply because they voted to fund the RIVER PROJECT with the one time Shupe Williams insurance money, something that Rudi attributes to the “RDA Disease” or the council members falling under the spell of Mayor Godfrey.
Never mind that the RIVER PROJECT is 5 years old, its inception brought about by a long removed totally different council, with none of today’s council members, save the exception of Jesse Garcia, ever having anything to do with it, other than inheriting it. And never mind that the 30 to 40 families, whose homes have been under option for five years, have been twisting in the wind while that whole area HAS turned into REAL blight, which this infusion of one time money will allow these good people to get on with their lives and finally sell their property at market value or higher. And never mind that the City will earn 300% on it’s money, 437% if Ernest returns, and the City will then turn that area into a beautiful mixed use community area, complete with Property Taxes and Sales Taxes that will pour into the coffers, wherein our city schools, our city’s infrastructure, fire and police, etc. will greatly benefit. And never mind that the result of this newly voted action will eventually draw more businesses downtown and broaden our tax base, which could maybe lower our own individual taxes and serve as a catalyst for further growth that will tie in the downtown with the Northern Boulevard areas, creating a gorgeous and vibrant Washington Blvd that stretches from 26th Street to 17th Street. And never mind that to re-do this project, at today’s prices, would waste hundreds of thousands of dollars and eons of time already put into the RIVER PROJECT. And never mind that any attempt to re-do the RIVER PROJECT would be so costly that it most likely couldn’t be done, therefore allowing that entire area to slip into the abyss of physical and economical deterioration and become mostly non-recoverable. And never mind that the City will now be in charge of its own destiny, in control as a Seller instead of cow-towing to Buyers who previously have called the shots. And never mind that those “other” businesses, that have been approached to locate in the RIVER PROJECT and are now waiting in the wings for something like this to happen, would, if the council voted to turn down this money, scramble to a neighboring town and take with them ALL of the collateral benefits of money, progress, and growth that come with new businesses. Hell no, the council absolutely should have voted this down and let it all stagnate, don't ya think? But they didn't, they looked deep into all the aspects and voted "Aye," and they have just terminated their political lives because Rudi has a different opinion
And to top it off, Rudi, who wasn't even at the meeting and actually RARELY attends, in his infinite wisdom, censors posts that disagree with his “OPINION.” He calls the council "wimps" and “feel gooders” because they study the facts and vote their conscience, not, as Rudi suggests, because they've taken to the Godfreyite syndrome. I doubt that Rudi has any conception on what, for days proceeding a council meeting even, goes on and is considered, before an INFORMED vote is cast
Rudi has the audacity to claim he “merely collects and analyses the available data” and arrogantly embraces some vague posting that compares him and Harry Truman. Is that the height of self endulgence, or what? There seems to be no latitude or understanding with this guy anymore, both having been replaced by a certain "mean spiritedness" instead. It’s this crass, individual culture, perpetrated by guys like Rudi, that makes some who hold Public Office enlist their “common sense” in order to “stop the madness” by NOT running for office again. When those, who give of themselves to serve others in the best way that they can, have to read salacious and unwarranted garbage like Rudi's article, its no wonder that “once is enough.” Actually, it’s MORE than enough! When one considers that people like Rudi don’t have the moxey to stand up and be counted by serving themselves, it's simple to understand that they really don’t possess or comprehend all that “available data” that they purport to have.
Struck a nerve did I, "friend?"
You gots the dreaded RDA DISEASE; and you gots it bad!
Get help.
Just a helpful hint from yer old pal Rudi.
Next!
No struck nerve, just contrasting your poor analysis and short sighted opinion with some of the REAL process that occurs prior to making a vote. Every vote will have those extremists who voacalize their disagreement and or opinion. Sadly, extremists like yourself offer little substance, relying on their on whims and perceptions, NOT the reality of a situation.
Hell ya, let's fire 'em all and make sure they NEVER hold public office again. Why? Because they consider the entire issue and play the tape to its end before making up his or her mind. You on the other hand, a guy who doesn't attend the meetings, who doesn't get the background packets, who doesn't get any input other than what you read on your prejudicial blog or the newspaper, forms an opinion philosophically and assumes the position that your position is cast in bronze while anyone else's is meaningless.
Considering your efforts and your obvious lack of facts, your opinion and the resulting cry for removing those who vote against it, comes across loud and clear as just what it is: self serving platitude.
I think the need for help is more acute as it pertains to yourself, rather than any of the others.
can't we all just get along?
Mr. Chapman:
Well, getting along [meaning I presume maintaining civility in the midst of differing about matters of public policy] is a noble goal. In fact, it is necessary for democratic governance to work at all. However, it does impose some burdens on those engaging in public discussion, one of which is the burden of being honest. The attempt by the Mayor to deceive the public by stating that the gondola/gondola system would connect downtown Ogden with Snow Basin [see the first post on this site, and the article exposing the Mayor's dishonesty in this morning's Standard Examiner] is as much a violation of civility in public discourse as is name-calling. He lied [please... spare yourself the embarassment of claiming it was merely an inadvertant mild inaccuracy] in order to garner public support for something he believed many would not support absent the lie.
So, when you plead for civility in public discourse [as I have, often, here and elsewhere], you might begin by insisting that all involved begin the process by speaking honestly.
Now, I realize that that may not be possible for the Mayor. He is after all a Republican in office, and so engaging in dishonesty before the public to secure support for a policy the public might otherwise not support seems to be embedded in his DNA. It is possible the poor lad just can't help himself.
Hold on there, folks. Where is the proof that Hissonor is now or has ever been a Republican. I cannot think of anyone who attends Republican functions that has seen him do THING in that party.
He has, though, been openly and vociferously supported by the cream of the Weber County Democratic party.
OK, OK, I guess you could make a case that the cream are all technically Hissonor's inlaws, but it is also true that they, in fact, run the party of John Kerry and Bill Clinton.
Ahem!
Sayonara, "citizen's friend," or "Neocon Boy," or whatever you're calling yourself these days...
We'd suggest you read our posting policy at the top of the sidebar before you try to post here again.
This blog is for grown-ups.
Have a nice day!
Well Friend,
Your pontificating ad nauseum has a very familiar ring.
I suppose you'll run AGAIN to retain your council seat so you can serve all the people.
It begs credulity to think that all of you council membera are doing your homework, slogging through all those pages of figures, statutes, etc, that you should know before you vote. You DO have a day job, don't you?
Since having to take flak on the way voters view your efforts is difficult and perhaps demoralizing, we hope you really will end your 'service' at the end of your term.
Curm...please wash out your mouth for stating that Godfrey is a Republican. Those are fighin' words, boy.
The rumor is that he registered Republican a couple years or so ago in order to be a delegate!
More chicanery! More lies.
He and his in-laws are supporters of the party that spawned GORE, DEAN, KENNEDY, PELOSI, REID, CLINTON(S),and so many more UNAmerican members of the evil, UNPatriotic Democratic Party.
Friend, since you appear to have influence on? with the Council, perhaps you could tell your buds at the palace that lying is WRONG.
Thank you so much.
Mr. Chapman:
I assumed the post by Dustin Chapmen was from you. My aplogies for that. I should have noticed the mis-spelling.
Got a peek at Friend of the Council before his last rant was summarily deleted, sassing Rudi's ass and behaving like somedy off his meds. Nothing here but the voice of the people, from one of the great bloggers in Utah. I am not worthy to post here, but I wanted to offer my slavish compliments
Fine blog you have here, Rudi.
This whole thing has a very familiar ring to it, Republican Boy. Nothing changes here, ever.
Very Good, neocon boy, that was much better. I LOVE the "Democrat" moniker. Very cute, I say,
You're always welome to post here, so long as you are willing to take your angst to your anger management class, and NOT dump on the gentle readers here.
"Nothing changes ever?"
Willow-in-the wind politicians change constantly. That's a fact of American political life.
Their current opinion all depends on who bent their ear last.
Does that proposition sound familiar. Eh?
Politicians with integrated, coherent, intelligent and well-grounded philosophies are like a stone in a stream, standing fast to their political values, depite the raging neocon torrent.
To people like you, we folks who abide by cohernet political principles are branded "extremist."
We who complain about ridiculous expenditures of tazpayer money are NOT extremists. We are your political conscience, and we are the people who elected to the current council the people who told us they would "stop the madness, and exercise common sense."
The council people are NOT part of Mstt Godfrey's management team, as Bill Cook, the Godfrey-lackey neocon council director dictates.
We pray the new council will "get it together" before Matt Godfrey has mortgaged every available downtown property, and sold everything that was unencumbered.
****Troll post deleted****
Rudi also addz...
Wait a durned mintute "friend."
If you don't understand our posting policy here, email me and I'll "esplain" it in simple lingo, in a manner custom-tailored to your apparently slight and base intellect.
Thanks for trying, though. We understand you're having a hard time containing your rage. This is a common problem for spoiled brats, we we've learned.
Here's a link for ya's BTW, that we believe might be useful to you:
Anger Management Seminars
As an added bonus, here's another treatment you might want to investigate. You can do this at yourself at home at almost no cost, with your own Black & Decker Drill. It will definitely fit your tight budget. It's essentially do-it-yourself!
Don't bother thanking us for this information, for we are...
Yer Old Pal, Rudi!
Hi Dustin!
If you'd like to have me delete the original imposter post, please let me know.
Imposters are my least favorite trolls.
Like Curmudgeon, I didn't look carefully to assure that it was you who made the original post.
So mighty the pen....so even the playing field, so tempermantal am I. Would that you abide by the parameters that so insense you as they pertain to others, even though I know I'm violating your hospitalty be even offering this.
I'm sure your in your comfort zone, ruling over the small amount of readers and writers who blog here, and that is as it should be. I'm in my own comfort zone too, as a lifelong spoiled child. I'm glad for you, but wasting time in an attempt to put things here into my cheerleader perspective is just that, a waste of time. This I admit.
Remember, there's a neocon behind every bush and last time I checked our neocon president's approval ratings were down around 38%.
I love Weber County Forum!
It's the only place where we can offer our own views, and also get the lowdown on our crooked government from our fellow citizens.
Viva Weber County Forum!
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