And they are (alphabetically):
- J. Brad Florence
- Therese Grijalva
- Jeremy Taylor
- John H. Thompson
- Susan E. Van Hooser
It was a tough task that Mr. Glasmann dropped into the laps of his former council colleagues, requiring them to choose from this exceptionally well-qualified list of thirty-nine. We believe the council discharged their duties tonight diligently however; and we're encouraged once again by this council of ours, which performed tonight with apparent deliberation and dignity.
Update 9/21/06 8:23 a.m. MT: Ace Reporter Schwebke provides this morning a thumbnail recitation of the events transpiring during last night's council marathon session. Read all about it in today's Standard-Examiner story.
36 comments:
As one of the ones not making the cut, I say congrats to those who did. It was great to see so many peole willing to step up with true willingness to do something for their community to the best of thier ability.
I'm sure one of these five will do just fine.
Am waiting until I know more about the nominees. Briefly scanning the SE story this morning, only one concern. One of the nominees is identified as "a general contractor." As such, he may have, therefor, a direct financial interest in approving proposals that will necessarily involve much construction. A potential for conflict of interest? Perhaps.
My concern with respect to this particular individual about whom I know at this point absolutely nothing else, may be wholly unwarranted. I'll wait to learn more before deciding. But on a quick scan of the barebones SE report this morning [and no, that's not a criticism given the hour when the Council acted], that's the only concern that comes to mind.
Go John Thompson,
He is the one that is the most in touch with our community
John Thompson really is a great choice. I hope the rest of the Council can feel that too!
I agree John Thompson is clearly the best Person for the Job!
Steering clear of the John Thompson fan club, I think Susan Van Hooser is clearly the best choice.
To all:
Support notices are fine, but what I'd like is some information about the Fab Five. Background, experience, involvement in public affairs, etc. It would be useful, for example, if the Council would transcribe and post someplace their replies to the four questions in the mini-interviews. And perhaps their original letters of application for the appointment.
I'm not challenging any of the endorsements above. Just saying it would be good for the city, the candidates, and ultimately the Council if as much information as is now available about the five could be made public. It's important for the Council, for Ogden, that whoever is chosen from among the five comes into office with as much public agreement that he or she is well-qualified for the job and a sound choice overall. The key to having that happen is making as much as is known about the canidates public.
John Thompson apparently has undergone the re-do of the century!
Last time I saw him in the council chamber, about 6 months or so ago, he looked like an apparition that stepped right out of 1968! Wild unkempt hair, ratty sweat stained T shirt, American Flag jogging shorts, and smelly running shoes!
Last night he looked neatly groomed, well clothed, and he sounded very intelligent and there wasn't a trace of the old hippie I remembered from a few months ago.
What a transformation! I would have never guessed it was the same guy - hell, maybe it wasn't?
If this fella can re-make himself that drastically (assuming it is the same person) then I think he is exactly what the council needs. After all, the council is in desperate need of a re-do!
I was also very impressed with the retired Admiral whose wife would like to get him out of the house. Although he looked an awfull lot like our former gadfly and failed political manipulator Steve Larsen, unlike good old Steve, he came across as very bright, highly experienced, well motivated and most of all he didn't bore us with silly sayings and mis-understood quotes from Shakespear.
My favorite line of the night was from Sandra Crossland - speaking of the Gondola deal she referred to it as the "Elephant in the living room!". I was very disappointed that she didn't make the cut. I believe of all the candidates she would be one of the very best choices. She's also great to look at!
Of course a lot of people were keeping their fingers crossed that Dian would be the choice, me included. Dian is extremely bright, thorough, well meaning, rational, a non-coolaid drinking all around great citizen. Having had a SGO sign in her yard probably worked against her. Maybe that is just, as I believe that the true litmus test for this appointment should be if the candidate has ever been outspoken one way or the other for the gondola - the "Elephant in the living room".
Bob Geiger, in a self admitted Quixote quest, deported himself very well. In spite of all, I think he would make a good council member. Now before ya'll go throwing bricks at me, let me say just because I despise what he is trying to do to my old home town, I like and respect the guy and his Dad. Just because the kids do really stupid stuff, don't make them unredeemable bad boys! Beside, if Bob were to get on the council, I believe his true integrity and vast reasoning power would emerge and he would finally see the ridiculousness of this Elephant in the living room. In my book he is alright, just a little bit misguided right now.
The absolute best candidate of course was not selected. That was one David Smith. He had the balls to get up and say it like it is. To paraphrase him: Glasmann ran on a very well defined set of principles, the public voted him in based on that campaign platform, and if selected Mr. Smith vowed to follow through and truly represent those ideals that the majority of the voters wanted. I don't know this guy, but I sure hope he throws his hat in the ring next election. Ogden desperately needs people of his character and integrity as demonstrated in his four minutes of Ogden fame.
The big surprise was that none of the old politico's were selected - Alford, Hunter, Haun, Gullo come to mind.
Now the big question is: who is the Godfrey ringer in the five? You just know one of them is carrying the Godfreyite banner.
I was surprised to see, one Saturday morning a couple months ago, John Thompson on the Today Show (or other morning show) receiving an extreme makeover.
David Smith is a crank. When he gets older, he will be an old crank. If you look under "depressing blow-hard" you will see a picture of David Smith. He wears the LDS church on his sleeve and is arrogant. Other than that, I'm sure he's a great guy. I'm sure his logorrhea would play well in the newspaper, but would any progress happen with his attitude or deameanor? I doubt it.
If the "general contractor" nominee (I don't know his name at the moment) may have a conflict of interest becuase of possible development in the city, we are in real trouble. All of the other 4 nominees get their only income from our tax dollars. The contractor is the only one who actually gets paid from someone other than the government.
The real conflict of interest is really on the 4 getting their dole from the government, not on the one guy that actually gets his income from someone other than you or me.
It really says something when Curm has more trust in people that get their pay from the government than the private sector. You must be a government employee, yourself.
Is this the local Socialists' blog? Did I miss something?
It would be interesting to know who the three were who changed their minds AND the one who just failed to show up.
Well, I am ALMOST in agreement with you, Ozboy.
The Admiral acquitted himself superbly. I was impressed that he'd done his homework on Ogden agencies that 'help the people.'..60!) and really knew all about our town. He has a sense of humor too, which the Council deperately needs, as they are a dour bunch who takes themselves waaaaay too seriously! It was either he, or another who said, "I asked my wife, before I left the house, 'how do I look?' She replied, 'you look fine. Remember, YOU'RE not important!"
Choice...humor defuses a lot of situations, and self-deprecating humor is sorely lacking on the Council...or in the Administration, as far as I have seen.
I saw a red flag on Florence, the 'contractor' also. He has a sense of humor also, and appeared bright.
Too many said, "I love Ogden. I want to 'give back', a lot of platitudes, but that is probably not unusual given that 35 people followed one another to the podium to answer 4 questions that were as probing as a two inch stick. Those questions could have come from a ninth grade civics class.
Sure hope the Council will get DOWN with some hard questions for the Fab Five next week.
Some (few) alluded to the gondola, but carefully refrained from showing their cards.
Now, they need to be asked. I thot that some 'just about' told us where their allegiances are, but then caught themselves.
Florence said something like, 'the gondola..open space issues need to 'be dispatched quickly'. What does that mean? Let's vote in the gondola and give away our land? OR..hey, this really is an 'elephant in the living room, so let's shoot the damn thing and get rid of it.???
Many mentioned our natural beauty and open space. Alford, I think, said that once our open space is sold, it can never be ours again.
My assessment is this: Dian, who did NOT utter one inane platitude, but told us she's up to speed and can hit the ground running, AND that she' writes for the WCFORUM.. (no hiding);..and David Smith who wowed us with his confidence, practical view of government and service to the people, and a no bs attitude; Gloria Berrett, who knows this town inside and out...which made her a HUGE liability if you were aware of the absent 'shadow' in the too big chair and the pall he casts over the cowardly lions on the Council, Shalae Larsen, who is another brain with the articulate , humorous, no nonsense style that frightens the 'lions'; Sandra Crossland, another smart woman who frightens the cowardly lions and sees the 'elephant in the living room;..Ken Alford, knows too much, does NOT admire the mayor (gasp)....these truly capable people who could have served this city sooooo well were eliminated because (IMHO, and it IS humble), they scared the begeebers out of Safsten, Stephenson, Garcia and Cook. These are the ones who would have brought freshness, smarts, an 'ask questions attitude', do due diligence, and do WHAT IS RIGHT at all times to this Council.
I think the Council chose 5 people who are probably GOOD persons, but who pose no threat to their
authority and egos. So, I hope the Council can come up with probing questions next week.
What I'd like to see is a public invitation to the meeting where all comers will be given a ballot. After listening to the 5 expound again...WE get to vote! Turn in the votes, and the Council listen to the people. That's as close as we'll get to actually voting on this replacement, for which seat we voted in the first place.
What do y'all think??
The dropouts & withdrawal date:
Sonia Cunningham 9/20/06
Justin Bonyai 920/06
William R. Ormond 9/19/06
Lisa D. Schultz...family conflict.
Ms. Jeske said something about Ms. Schultz' family member's wedding.
Anon:
Sigh. OK, let's try again. You wrote: "It really says something when Curm has more trust in people that get their pay from the government than the private sector. "
Several points. Let's start with this one. I expressed no trust, or lack of trust, in any of the remaining four. I don't know much of anything about them beyond what appeared in the SE story this morning. So the notion that I have "more trust" in them because "they get their pay from the government than the private sector" is nonsense.
Second: I did not say I opposed the contractor. Only that I saw a possible conflict of interest in his being asked to vote on proposals that would inevitable engender a lot of construction work. Also said I knew nothing else about him and that my conserns might be wholly unjustified, and that I would wait to decide until I had more information. How that translates into a claim that I trust government workers more than those in the private sector escapes me. [NB: Mr. Godfrey is a government worker, as is Mr. Peterson. Case closed.]
You also wrote: "The real conflict of interest is really on the 4 getting their dole from the government, not on the one guy that actually gets his income from someone other than you or me." You should be ashamed of yourself, Anonymous. We currently have well over 150 thousand service men in Iraq and Afghanistan, government workers who get their pay from the taxpayers, and for you to suggest they are "on the dole" is scandalous. You owe every American man and woman currently serving in the military an apology.
Yes, Curm...and Jeremy Taylor, the Admiral, (Ret), probably has a pension. He's one of the 35 and now one of the Fab Five.
Thank HIM for his service. One doesn't get to be an Admiral by only peeling potatoes on KP.
Correction: govt worker following Mayor Godfrey in post above was meant to be Mr. Paterson, not Peterson. Typo. Sorry.
Well Curm
I wouldn't be so quick to be sorry for implying that Peterson is a government worker.
In the literal sense he is not - yet.
However, he is applying for welfare. He is trying to get the tax payers of Ogden to subsidize his fantasy project. You know, like we take all the risk and he gets all the rewards. If that isn't government assistance I don't know what is.
So even tho he isn't on the government dole right now, he is sure trying to be and in a way that far surpasses any normal welfare scheme.
So not only is Peterson a wanna be developer but he is also a wanna be public trough slopper supreme.
Oink Oink....Supper's ready, come get your feet in the trough.
Sorry Sharon
Only friends of Matt need apply to sidle up to the old public trough
here in Godfrey land. Like on the farm, some pigs are more equal than
others.
Bob Geiger was impressive? I thought he was doing a Pee Wee Herman impersonation. The more I get to know them, the more mediocre the Geigers are. Salesmen - Yes. Good folks - Are you kidding?
Anon:
Moot point. Mr. Geiger was not chosen to be one of the Fab Five. Piling on unnecessary and, seems to me, unwarranted. If he resurfaces in the public sphere, as I am sure he will, as the public face of Lift Ogden, have at him for what he says/does. I'll help if I think it warranted. But this particular matter, so far as he is concerned, is done. Or should be.
Well I do believe that Bob Geiger and his family are well meaning and want the best for Ogden. I certainly do not agree at all with their methods of how to accomplish that however.
I also think that after this "Elephant in the living room" is finally put to death and buried that the Geigers will go on to contribute a lot of good in Ogden. After they recover from their awful Godfrey hangover they will be just fine.
They are after all Ogden boys so they gotta be good! I mean it aint like they come from Brooklyn you know.
I believe this process gve some real insight into next year's elections. There will be four seats available and, I believe, 20 people shooting for them. Not to mention the Mayor's race (i think).
While I think the council members had a bit to consider, I think they took little risk.
The three who will be up for re-election next fall, probably stared their competition right in the face last night....and I think more than one has reason to be concerned. The fourth will have a very short time to prove themself.
Should be fun fun fun!
Is nothing sacret anymore?
First we have Glasman telling us all what we wanted to hear about truth in city government, then we elect him, then he betrays us for a crummy job in Godfrey's inner circle.
Now we have Ozboy kissing up to the Geigers and telling us what great people they are!
Oh Boy Oz Boy, you can go to hell, you and Glasman are both phonies and traitors.
Oh Ozboy, please don't go to Hell (theologically speaking).
I get such a kick out of your writings. If you had to send them up from Hell, they would be too hot to handle.
It's never too late to repent tho.
Young Bob was the first to tell us how bad Ogden is!! Didn't you catch that? It's in dire need of a fix.
So many others commented that that's what's wrong with Ogden: Too many people say Ogden is dying and a terrible, unsafe, dump of a place!
And Bob stood up and represented the faction who say just that!
So, I double dog dare ya to take back all your kissy comments about Bob.
I want to thank everyone who encouraged and wished me luck in last night's event. There were so many exceptional people there applying for that position that I think it will be hard in the future for anyone to use the word "apathy" in describing this city.
Interesting experience for me, last night, speaking to the council while they were taking notes on me. Turnabout is fair play, it seems. Of course I am wondering what rating system and/or criteria was used, if any, and how they did the process of running the vote, and all those things one wonders about when applying for something. Actually, I see no reason to do that narrowing down to the final five in closed session, now that I think about it, if they were rating people as they spoke. It would seem a simple matter to simply start running the vote right out there in the open, if that's how they were doing it.
In fact, there is, and has been for some time, such a thing as electronic voting, where results are thrown up on a screen the minute you vote--you know, like voting at the Olympics. That would have made it interesting, indeed.
Will of course continue writing about these meetings on the blog, although it has appeared to me as of late that the Council meetings are increasingly becoming a quick, formal proceeding, in which items already gone over and discussed in Work Sessions are on the agenda and voted upon with little or no public discussion, since that has all taken place previously. Like last night, for instance--a seemingly laborious process taking place outside of the public meeting and then a quick vote on the decision. I am thinking that perhaps we need more public attendance at Work Sessions to provide background.
Anyway, again, thank you to those who wished me luck, and a very special thank you to Rudizink for giving us Weber County Forum.
I second that motion Ozboy. What has come over you, are you now sipping from the same cup of delusion as the Geigers and Godfreys? Are you just sucking up to them so they will get on the band wagon and support your new Gondola proposal? Are you afraid your brilliant idea will fail if they are not on board this new deal? Have you sold your sole to the devil like Glasmann did? And worse of all have you lost your sense of humour?
If you had been there last night and heard young Geiger get up and with his very own lying lips tell the council how much integrity he had and how he taught integrity and ethics at the navel academy to all of those officers that are fighting in Iraq right, if you would have heard that coming from the little twerp you would have wanted to puke just like the rest of us in that room. I'm telling you he actually did this and he is the very same person that has been lying and and showing a complete lack of integrity through this entire debate about the gondola and before that the mall project. And he claims to be an ethical expert that has taught our troops about integrity! God help us all if that is true. Given how much he has lied to us the last couple of years, I doubt very seriously if it is true.
So Ozboy I think you're seriously slipping here. It is pretty dissappointing to see this happen as you have been one of the funniest and right on commentors on this blog. You have consistantly cut through to the true essense of so much of the Godfrey bull crap. You have been doing Ogden a great service. So please, get a reality check going, put the whisky bottle down and sober up, quit smoking that whacky weed, see a shrink, please do something and pull your head out of your butt before you lose all credibilty in Ogden.
Marvin,
Remember that it was the Integrity Teacher who made the first NEGATIVE comments about Ogden?
Then others got up and said Ogden has an 'image' problem because there are too many people running her down?
And Bob was the first to do so. AFTER he told us how great he is!
Cut Ozboy some slack. He just sees the good in delinquents. Ever hopeful for their redemption.
Dian:
In most legislative bodies now, the US Senate and House included, most matters are decided long before they get to the floor. I doubt now it could be any other way. Occasionally something will happen at a formal Council session [or on the floor of the Senate or House] that will create a stir and cause a mind and a vote to change, but rarely. The Council is no different, I suspect.
Time was, for example, debates in the US Senate, which still [laughably] likes to style itself "the greatest deliberative body in the world," were attended by all or most members. The floor was packed as Henry Clay or Daniel Webster or other less well known members rose to actually debate an issue. The ebb and flow of debate on the floor actually mattered. Now, when Senators speak on the floor, a camera is on catching all, and I mean all, the empty seats around them. Those speaking are addressing the folks at home, hoping for a sound bite on the Peoria evening news. They are not addressing each other, which is good, because the other members are neither there nor listening.
Ogden City Council not much different. Most matters hashed out, compromises made, conversations already held. The formal sessions are more intended to get everyone's position on the record, and to formally record in public viedw the decisions that have been made in fact much earlier.
Nothing new in this. Again, with infrequent exceptions, City Councils have been operating this way for most of the last century.
Prideful people only care about appearances.
John Thompson has proved himself to me that he has what it takes to be a great leader.
He’s well read, dedicated, politically involved, honest and even a rebel when he knows it’s not popular. Even he had to give in on his appearance. But that’s O.K; it shows he’s willing to compromise. All these traits are held by excellent leaders.
John Thompson is our man!
If you find fault in people willing to say there are negative things in Ogden, take of your rose colored glasses and walk around.
There is nothing wrong withpointing out that a place can be better and to be better you need to recognize the thing that should and can be fixed.
Curmudgeon,
There are a lot of things that have become customary in government during the last century that are not precisely what one would wish, as I am sure you would agree.
I have seen, in the past, the Chair giving a brief background on an issue to the public in attendance, and I have also seen the Council openly debate issues during the meetings. This gives those of us who are interested a clearer picture of what is going on. Many times this background is given during presentations, also.
It is possible to do, and I of course really prefer this. After all, in order to get accountability, we have to know about what to take into account.
Dian:
You wrote: "It is possible to do, and I of course really prefer this. After all, in order to get accountability, we have to know about what to take into account.
I couldn't agree more. Which is why [yes, I'm about to beat my drum on this again] the Council should have the tapes of its meetings aired on the city's Cable Channel several times each week. Making it easier for the general public to know what goes on at meetings without requiring attendance in person is something the Council should have been looking at long ago.
So by the way should the School Board.
While I understand that it would be prohibitively expensive to air the sesions live, there already is a tape system in place in the Council Chamber. Hard to see why the tapes couldn't be run on Ch. 17 a few times in the week following each meeting.
Ok. Drum beating over. [For a while.]
Well Curmudgeon, if you don't keep the mushrooms in the dark and feed them bull shit they won't grow.
Besides, inorder to put council meetings on the city owned TV they would have to cut back on the Matt and Chriss show that we all enjoy around the clock.
Jeremy Taylor was Airport Manager in 2002 when he signed a letter to the Ogden City Council urging them to sell two small parcels of City property to Mel Kemp so he could build his Gateway Center.
Persons connected with the Airport doing business with the Airport and who have dealt with Taylor in his capacity as the Airport Manager do not want to see Jeremy Taylor put on the City Council.
Maybe Jeremy Taylor is Godfrey's man that we have been wondering about.
I think that Wednesday night's Council meeting was a farce! Isn't it evident that Mayor Godfrey called in his "dynamic duo" and told them: "Don't you dare let Ken Alford, or any of the SmartGrowthOgden people make it as far as the top 5!" I have heard that the Council has received some input from a number of citizens about two of the 5 they chose, giving some very pertinent information that should discourage anyone from putting them on the Council. So that leaves three virtually unknowns to choose from to fill the vacant seat. Anyone for just picking straws and the longest one is the new Council member! What a great way to obtain a new Council member!
2bits is the only one who saw what happened. "While I think the council members had a bit to consider, I think they took little risk."
"The three who will be up for re-election next fall, probably stared their competition right in the face last night....and I think more than one has reason to be concerned. The fourth will have a very short time to prove themself."
The only ray of light in this dark process is that whoever is chosen will be a short-timer, and can be replaced in the election next year. And 25bits is right that the Council members who are up for election will find their competition in the great guys they turned down. Not too smart! Instead of following Herr Adolph Godfrey's orders, they should have been considering saving their own skins in next year elections. Already some that didn't make it have been contacted and urged to run against those very Council members who gave them the boot!
Ah-h-h sweet justice! Don't cha just love it?! Maybe one of them will even be elected Mayor! We can hope!
There really were some outstanding, brilliant people with integrity who applied, but apparently were not seriously considered because they were strong, ethical, knowledgable people with a lot of talent and a sincere desire to serve the people and do what's right for Ogden. They are too frightening and intimidating for some of the current Council members. We can pray that they are elected next year.
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