By Gentle Reader SharonWell, folks...you missed another circus tonite.
I attended the event at Union Station Hippodrome, where Mayor Godfrey and representatives from UTA and WFRC were slated to present "accurate" information on proposed future Emerald City area public transportation alternatives.
At last Tuesday's City Council meeting, I'd asked John Patterson, Bill Cook and the Council how this show was to be handled. If Godfrey was going to have the podium to "address the assemblage, then whoever was there as an authority on streetcars should also have his time at the podium to do the same." Everyone looked around and mumbled... "I dunno...it's the mayor's meeting."
Well, there was quite a crowd in that cavernous acoustically disastrous lobby at Union Station. Godfrey comes in to address us ...no mike, and he could hardly be seen. A wag behind me called (softly) "stand up!" Hah! An orange crate would have been helpful.
Read Sharon's full article here.
Rebecca Palmer, another Std-Ex "Ace" Reporter, offers her own contorted Suits from Sanduskey story version this morning too. For a full dose of the Std-Ex/Boss Godfrey spin, be sure to check out this morning's Boss Godfrey lemming Standard-Examiner hogwash .
It's comments time, O gentle readers... We'd especially like to hear from anyone else who may have attended last night's Big-top One-ring Extravaganza.
42 comments:
Sharon:
Thanks for the report. Being under the weather myself at the moment -- I blame Dian --- I passed. Interesting that his answer to so many questions was "ask me later." The English translation of that is "I don't want to answer up here in front of god and everybody, becasue I know the answer won't be popular."
And if they Mayor actually said "everyone" he talked to is for it, he is.... he is.... OK, OK, I'll be delicate. Being disingenuous, becasue I know he has talked to me and Mrs. Curmudgeon, and we both made it plain we are not for it.
Sharon:
You mentioned the new PC member walked around, looked at all the posters on street cars, gondolas. I have a question. Did any of the posters on streetcars deal with the route the WRC recommended... i.e. from downtown to WSU and McKay Dee, or did they all deal with the two alternative routes that Mayor is touting to keep streetcars away from the gondola proposed route?
Well, Curm....he may have had some people up to the 9th floor who 'supported it'...or at a Rotary meeting? There are lots of places to go to find one's supporters. But, to say "95% of the people support it" is appallingly stupid, when probably 98% of the attendees were against it!
I get my propensity for percentages from the Geigers'.
Hope you are feeling better soon.
I'm gonna 'hit the feathers' myself. g'nite.
Since we were posting at the same time...I was able to read your 2nd question. The posters I GLANCED at
appeared to be the mayor's version. However, Dan Schroeder, who is sooo knowledgable, showed me some fallacies in those posters dealing with projected ridership. So, hoping Dan will see this, I defer to him.
Curmudgeon,
It really isn't fair to blame me for this extremely nasty flu or whatever it is that I am hoping you do not have. I would not wish this on my worst enemy, which you definitely are not, and have gone nowhere out of concern for the well-being of the general public. I have not been able to attend anything at all this week, which is incredibly irritating, since it has been an interesting and action filled week and I have missed it all.
Thank heavens for your coverage of the meeting, and Sharon's tonight--a wonderful job! So the mayor is saying that "fair market value" in his mind is equivalent to "the person who has the smartest plan?" ???????? Plan for what?
There is nothing wrong with leaving it alone. This to me is the smartest plan. I hereby freely give this the smartest plan to those who are currently healthy and ambulatory and can go present it to the council, be presented with the golf course, and preserve it the way it is.
Dian:
Oh, just ribbing you a little. I have the departmental cold, that's all.
Looking forward to hearing what Dan thought of the meeting and Hizzonah's propaganda... oops, I meant "accurate inforamtion" of course.
Oh, he floats through the air with the greatest of ease,
This daring young man on the flying trapeze;
His actions are graceful, all girls he does please,
My love he has purloined away!
It's interesting that the resort idea was downplayed last night yet the gondola is still at the forefront as though it were going to hold it's own as a transit system. A gondola supporter who was quite feisty but good natured, insisted we must "try" something to bring up Ogden. I attempted to convey that to "try something" allowed one to turn back if it doesn't work. This plan would give no such opportunity, if we sell the golf course there is no turning back. His family was more moderate. He also cleverly insisted that this was not a "Transit" system. Oh really. Godfrey is here tonight talking it up as just that. I was sympathetic to their zeal having been in those shoes. Their zeal prevented them from absorbing any reasoned point that Ogden was doing quite well as of late with real estate selling at a healthy clip and values already rising. Another lukewarm supporter, a recent investor from Philly, was amazed that anyone would be against this plan. Having also felt the same half a year ago, there was common ground and he was quite receptive to the facts of this mess. He, too, was under the impression that Snowbasin was part of the deal and did not realize how tiny was Malan's Basin. He left thinking and I am glad for these newcomers. They are ready to understand the real issues, not entrenched in the LO dogma. There was the conspicuous absence of the Geigers and Allens and the stockbroker and son and Tiffany from the paper and Chapman and so many other core LO pushers. It must be gettin' lonely on floor 9. Still this tyrant holds some sway and we must be vigilant. He quite conpicuously passed over hands raised by myself and Mary Hall and quickly adjourned his Q&A sesh as it was getting quite unruly and his discomfort factor was showing through.
The SE Strikes [Out] Again
Well, those looking for an opportunity to bash the SE for shoddy reporting have had an opportunity served up on a platter this morning.
The article reported that about a quarter [of those present] raised their hands when asked by an audience member if they supported the gondola proposal."
Of course, the crowd was then asked to indicate by raised hands how many there didn't support the gondola plan. But readers of the SE story won't know that because the reporter included only the "vote" for in her story.
Then there is this: "We know the current plan isn't going to work," Godfrey said." And what might "the current plan" be? The Wasatch Regional Council proposal for a street car line up to WSU? An existing city transit plan? What exactly did the mayor mean by "the current plan?" I am not sure. Ms. Palmer, who was there and heard the mayor's presentation presumably knows. I would certainly like to know that the mayor meant by "the current plan" and I reasonable expected the story to tell me. It didn't. It should have.
The story goes on to note that Representatives from UTA and WFRC, a professional organization concerned with Top of Utah transportion, were on hand to answer questions." Did Ms. Palmer ask them any questions? Like, for example a comment on the Mayor's presentation? Apparently not.
But let us go on. Apparently Rep. N. Hansen of the Utah House was there and asked the Mayor if the golf course and public benchlands are sold to finance his downtown gondola, would the property go to the highest bidder. And apparently the Mayor declined to answer, suggesting from the podium that Rep. Hansen "ask me later." Apparently, at the SE, that remarkable exchange at a meeting called by the mayor so people could "ask questions" was not deemed newsworthy by the SE.
Ah, but there's more. In his recent fact-free op-ed piece, the Mayor was at pains to state, twice, that the gondola was not a transit project. Yet according to Ms. Palmer's story, last night, the Mayor was at pains to suggest that the gondola is very march part of Ogden's comprehensive transit plan [due in the spring]. Did Ms. Palmer ask about this apparent change in the Mayor's thinking? She did not.
So: it reports only the "pro" vote, and does not even mention the "anti" vote took place. It is vague to the point of being opaque ["the current plan"?]. It offers nothing from the experts there [WFRC and UTA] who were there to answer questions. The reporter apparently asked no questions of the Mayor either.
Once again, sadly, the SE has committed press release journalism. And it has not served its readers well.
It is really sad when humans invest emotionally in an issue that it becomes embarrassing to retreat and reshape one's views. I am quite ready at any time to review any stance I may hold as I learned long ago that to own one's opinion disallows any chance of moderation. Clearly those LO supporters are owning their opinion. When one owns an opinion it is potentially for sale. When one holds (as opposed to owning) an opinion it may allow one to also experience holding an opposing view. Experiencing the view from the other side of the fence can lead to an appreciation of moderation and open one up to the broader facts.
Tod:
Right on about the way the Mayor keeps changing the concept on the gondola. It's a transit system [how he first tried to sell it]. It's not a transit system [stated in his recent op ed]. It's a transit system.[Last night.] Which shell is the pea under? Seems like Hizzonah is running a modern version of the three card Monte scam.
The other astonishing thing revealed last night is that he new comprehensive transit plan for Ogden the Mayor says he is working on won't be ready for prime time until next Spring? So, more than a year ago the Mayor dropped his gondola/gondola sell the park plan on the city. And now, a year later, he tells us the city transit plan is still six months away and that he's workin' on it?
A year of division in the community, marketing campaigns, meetings, newspaper writing, op eds, letters to the editor... and the now the Mayor says he's gotten going on the planning and should have something ready in six months or so?
Ah, doesn't planning, research, getting the facts, etc usually precede an administration [state or local] offering up something for public consideration? All this community disagreement and contesting for a year, and now he's working on actually doing the spade work he should have done a year ago?
Un-be-lievable.
The good folks who said we have to "try something" also insisted if it doesn't work we can just tear it out and start over...
I'm sure we could sell the gondola to Powder Mountain so we could keep it local. That way we can totally underwrite Powder Mountain's future upgrade right here in Ogden.
Owning the LO position has folks building walls around it and landscaping it and setting up an easy chair inside and , well, getting quite comfortable in it. Since I had no pink slip to mine I gladly left it on a table at some garage sale in the early Summer. What a load off...
Tod:
I'd like an estimate, please, on the cost of "tearing out" the 400 upscale homes on the public's parklands on the bench, and "restoring" that area to what it is now if the Malan's Basin resort fails, and the gondola [whose sole purpose seems to be to feed it customers] fails too.
I've got an idea, we can Lease Peterson the golf course, he can reconfigure it at his cost, and roll in 400 upscale mobile homes, build his mountain spa and tubing hill,when it all fails we simply roll out the mobiles, kick out all those absentee second home investors, and we get the course back upgraded etc... oh shit , I'm starting to sound like godfrey, a "neat" solution to everything.
Curmudgeon
When you wrote: "Being under the weather myself at the moment -- I blame Dian --- I passed" - my old Marmon heart skipped a beat. I thought for a moment you were announcing your own demise! When someone "passes" around here it generally means they are playing poker or heading for the bone yard. Given the context of your announcement I assumed it was the later. That would be a real tragedy for truth and insight in Emerald City. Your scribblings are invaluable in keeping a sensible spotlight on the Little Lord and his ever moving tall tales.
Take care of that cold, take plenty of vitamin C, and be sure to drink your whiskey. Those are the only true cures for what ails you.
There is no secret about Ogden's comprehensive transit plan which is due in the spring. At the core of it will be Ozboy's recently announced Venitian style Gondola plan. That is the one with real Gondola's on real canals plying the waters between the train station and the College.
After carefull consideration the Mayor saw the genius in this new/old plan and has adopted it. It will naturally take many months to work out the details, thus the "next spring" announcmnet date.
Please be patient, these terribly complex issues take a lot of time to work out the details. The vision thing is not nearly as easy as most of you nay sayers on this blog think it is.
It was actually a sad sight to see, this Matt Godfrey, standing alone, with no amplification, talking to a measly crowd of 150 in a town of over 70,000, and only a dozen or so less than hard core supporters, it's really quite astounding that he cannot see the whole thing crumbling around him.....
Most of the opponents are there of their own personal commitment. I saw no SGO signs or chanting of slogans. Those few LO supporters show up as a part of some group effort to rally for the mayor. LO has quite obviously run out of steam. MG and CP please get a clue.
There was some old guy LO supporter that was so steamed at several people over what, he could not put to words. His eyes indicated years without adequate sleep and he kept hounding me "do you know what Peterson is proposing???" It was hard to tell what side he was on but it became clear his angle was the "opponents" don't have a clue about the beauty of the SLC airport to Malan's ski connection.
The other proponents also elaborated on the famously seamless SLC Malan's connection. They huff and scoff at the reality of this roundabout journey via downtown Salt Lake therough sevearal transit connects. They even answer themselves saying anyone rich enough will skip all that and drive up here...say what?? Than why the silly gondola...what a hopeless tangle of ill-logic. I actually liked these folks as the mother was brilliant and had a grand sense of humor and the son was a burly guy who was somewhat threatening in full LO stance but turned out to be certainly good natured. They are East Benchers and surely have more in common with most of the SGO. I think they'll come around.
Everyone must read this gargantuan article about development in Portland. Seems that hundreds of millions in public money has been pumped into redevelopment of the South Waterfront with more to go, and Portland is being criticized for using its general fund to pay this off: ,,,all new South Watefront property taxes will go toward paying off the borrowing used to pay for district improvements, leaving no money to pay for fire, police and other basic services that serve the entire city.
The aerial tram is not mattering that much now in the grand scheme of redevelopment.
The tram cost a lot, and it sure looks cool, but for now it's pretty irrelevant... Ask people today why they bought condos on the river and they'll tell you, "It's the view, stupid."
"I would have to say the tram didn't influence my decision either way," says Meriwether resident Schneider. "The river was the draw."
...Critics justifiably worry that City Council has put the general fund at risk based on the shaky premise of biotech and added to its risk just as the real-estate market is going soft.
This is really a must read. Well written, some quotes stating these projects are wonderful and others that they are disastrous, with a detailed timeline beginning in 1988. It's here:
Cover Story
MAGIC KINGDOM
Why the tram matters less to the city's future than subsidized waterfront condos for millionaires.
I sat next to a Las Vegas transplant, who, guess what???? Came here because of our "spectacular mountain views, the trails, the 30 minutes to Snow Basin, a charming town" and the right priced homes.
I asked, "And you did all this without the gondola??"....Guess what he thinks about Godfrey and his visions?
Curm..there were only about a dozen hands, that I could see, going up FOR the gondola!
Yes the dream cookie is crumbling, fer shure. Don't forget that the land is to be sold to the person who has the 'smartest' plan?
So, how does that propel Ogden's "Economic engine"? Hmmmm?
One of those dopey questions asked by Safsten to a CC candidate. Godfrey mentioned the term again last nite. 'economic engine. Denotes a lot of DRIVE and FORWARD MOTION, don't you think?
However, I spoke with a BUSINESS OWNER today who said he would NEVER live or work in Ogden. He had some choice methods for ridding our city of the biggest problem here: Godfrey himself.
His were less humane than ???? who was castigated for bringing up Lee Harvey Oswald. One thing to say about Godfrey, he does instill toxic reactions to his ecoli personality.
DON'T PURCHASE GODFREY SPINACH!
This is a great story and well worth the read.
It shows very vividily what happens when a bunch of arrogant NeoCon politicians get in office and then think they are great developers. Instead of taking care of the city, its infastructure and its people, they squander all of their time and our money playing a big league high risk game that very few of them are remotely qualified to play.
I thought the following from the article was very telling and certainly applicable to our current situation with the Urban Gondola scheme. It could be a chilling look into our own future here in Emerald City.
2002 City Council OK's South Waterfront plan with a tram budget of $15.5 million.
2003 Tram budget rises to $28.5 million in November.
2005 Tram budget hits $40 million in March.
2006 Tram budget soars to $57.5 million in February.
ROFLMAO!!!!
Let me get this straight.
YOU call Tiny Bobby Geiger "peewee."
He has to be at least three pounds heavier than you, and at least a couple of millimeters taller.
Ah confess, ah'm confused.
I think for the first time in a long time the SE actually let a little truth be known.
They did report that only a quarter of the audience in a show of hands was for the gondola project. Thus any reader can deduct that 75% of the people at the meeting last night were against the gondola (which was clearly the case). I think this is a first for the SE in a long time to publish anything that discredits the mayor’s fabrications as to the popularity of his project.
I hope the paper starts reporting more on what most people think of this project instead of just what the mayor and LO want them to say. I hope they start asking logical questions about this project such as its feasibility, its viability. I hope they start ask questioning some of the gross generalizations and unsubstantiated fact being provided by the project’s supporters
Hopefully the SE will lift their moratorium on letting people voice their concerns about this project in the paper in the letter to the Editor section.
It would be good for the SE to start letting people be heard.
Dear Friends. I moved to Ogden in 1968. It was a wonderful city. It still is in most residential neighborhoods. I, and most of my circle of friends, did not vote for Mr. Godfrey as we all felt he was too immature to be given such responsibility. Time has proven us right. He could have done great things to re-establish Ogden as a vital open city. All he has done is create World War III. He strikes me as more Islamic fanitic than Mormon Bishop. I can only hope that once he is out of office that we can put the community back together. I have the faith in the Good People of Ogden that we can mend fences and come back to the table to address the real vital issues facing Ogden, crime and gangs, a crumbling infrastructure (especially the water pressure here on the bench), and many other problems that everybody in my neighborhood is tired of talking about.
I am fascinated by all this talk about transit solutions. I remember the good bus system we use to have here. I am now virtually trapped in my home because it is getting harder and harder for me to drive myself. One of the ladies in my bridge club has a son who works in city hall and she said he said that Mayor Godfrey had paid a lot of money to have a company come in and do a feasibility(?) study done on the gondola issue. Does this study have something to with all the Lift Ogden signs being taken down? The paper today said the mayor is now willing to talk about streetcars. I guess I question as to wheather or not the City of Ogden paid for this study? If it did, then these results should be made public.
Thank you to who ever has established this web site. Keep up the good work. I just never knew these types of things existed. Oh silly me. I have resisted getting a computer for much too long. It sure is easier to use than my IBM Selectric.
Don't worry. Be happy.
Dear Mayor Matt,
For the first time since I've known you (only in the social sense, not biblically, Bishop)....I have been delighted at your wit. (I was afraid it was only half there).
Thank you for letting us know how generous Curt and the boy are to take you to lunch each week. There's nothing better than veal cutlets with capers to keep visions well-fed and the cookies from crumbling.
Usually "I laugh at your face", but tonight I've laughed out loud enough to wake my wife.
I say we keep you around for another four years. We haven't had much to laugh about in recent years, but if you'll just continue to publish your memoirs..political buddying.... and your endeavors to date 'heavily', or with heavy dates...(stay on top...a heavy date will be the death of you), I'll put your campaign sign on Jesse's lawn.
I say ... support the Mayor and his vision. Now that he has gone public with his appetite for veal and capers, you know that he is human.
Leave him and his family alone, and confine this "gentle" site to to a discussion of the issues, as opposed to the vicious, sophomoric, brutal, un-American assault on personal attack most of you are guilty of.
Coooooooooooooool it ... and deal with what issues you have to deal with, as a community of ONE ... we have to stick together to solve the problems that continue to absorb Ogden, and this website.
Dian,
Thanx for the Portland link! Ozboy commented on the rising costs of the tram and their experience is a lesson in mismanagement for all of us to heed.
Now the Portlanders say 'it's the scenery, stupid', and 'the river that is the draw'.
Hmm...WE have beautiful mountains, exquisite sunsets over the lake, fantastic trails, an affordable and playable golf course, adjacent to a great family park....do we need a gondola to nowhere obstructing all that?
We have new people moving to Ogden for the things mentioned above and it wasn't the promise of a gondola that won't be built for 'ten to twenty YRS' according to Peterson's fast-talking attorney, Ellison.
These LO people seem to think this vision will be gliding over 23rd St next summer! Get real. Any business coming here to have the thrill of stepping out their office door to jump onto a gondola and ski the afternoon away, would have to be a company run by persons of unsound mind, IMHO.
But, the Geigers are welcome to recruit them, just the same.
Reading Portland's horror story is such a portent of Ogden's future if this out of control administration is not contrained NOW.
Peterson was not mentioned last night til I brot him up. Godfrey appears to be distancing himself a bit from the 'would be developer'.
NOW, Godfrey talks about the streetcar. Of course, we have Matt's version and figures, not those of the Wasatch Front Council.
I wonder if Matt really is getting an inkling that his goofy visions aren't embraced by '95% of the people' after all. Godfrey's psyche would never allow him to admit he is wrong about anything. He could save face tho, by 'talking' about the streetcar, and then when the public clamors for it, he can throw up his hands and say, "well, I always listen to the people and their needs...'
Yeah, riiiight. But beware, this little guy never does anything unless HE gets the benefit and the glory. So, he may appear to consider a streetcar as transit 'since the people are interested', but he won't be derailed from pushing for this goofy gondola.
Remember, this guy is the back room deal maker. The Gotti family could've used him!
Don't eat the Godfrey spinach!
Not pro or con, but sick of bs....just a bit of advice:
"Hmm...WE have beautiful mountains, exquisite sunsets over the lake, fantastic trails, an affordable and playable golf course, adjacent to a great family park....do we need a gondola to nowhere obstructing all that?"
Go to an area with a gondola and tell me how much is obstructed. Visable yes, obstructed, no. Will a gondola obstruct all of that?
Would the family park go away?
Would the a golf course go away?
Would the sunsets go away?
Would trails go away?
Listen, these are retorical questions, because I'm educated enough to know the the potential impact, and...
There are many people in the middle on the overall argument and these smart, educated people are put off by far reaching propaganda from either side. They recognize that the above is hyperbole.
The sky is not falling in Ogden. Nor is a Gondola going to obstruct the things of which you speak. In, fact, a gondola will invite more to enjoy the view of sunsets over the lake.
Have your opinion, but realize that for everyone who slaps you back for preaching to the choir and everyone who takes the opposite stance, their is probably someone in the middle just waiting to see who is the most uninformed in their arguments.
In fact, I would suggest to the choir that they chime in on the silliness when they see it and correct it for credibilty.
Folks, my earlier comments were a parody of Godfrey. I never suspected anyone would believe something so ridiculous would be written by the mayor.
But perhaps the real problem is he so ridiculous anything is believable.
"Matt" may post here once in awhile if nobody minds.
In the meantime, here is the passport photo I got when Curt and I went to Europe. Pee Wee said it makes me look more mature.
Oh, good lord, 'Matt'...how dumb do you and Reality think we are? (THAT dumb, eh?). I think YOU are the one with no sense of humor. Wally was pulling your leg...and complimenting you for your wit and so was the last Anonymous.
Reality, maybe you could be the choir director? It's so refreshing to know you are educated...that classes up the joint here, so to speak. The rest of us barely made it out 8th grade.
BTW 'Matt'...I thot your post about dating, etc was extremely funny. I also laffed out loud.
Reality,
That's a confusing post.
The greater real impact has nothing to do with sunsets, golf, trails...although those are substantial...
It has to do with this gondola having no utility to the citizens of the city and the presence and persistence of this stupid plan is postponing and perhaps permanently hijacking any chance of getting a proven and state/federally supported transit system. It has massive cost overrun written all over it and it only placed in the mix as a part of Peterson's overall plan which has nothing positive for our city.
Thanx, Tod,
Reality, hope you've
gone onto the Portland link that Dian provided?
Please read it. It's lengthy..but worth the time of anyone who is truly interested in Ogden's future.
Checking out Don Wilson's very revealing "Malan's Basin Feasibility Analysis" would be a good start too, "Reality."
Predicated as it is on the successful operation of a destination ski resort in Malan's Basin, this whole gondola scheme is demonstrably shaky at best.
You've definitely come to the right place to educate yourself on the facts, Reality. You'll get little help in that regard elsewhere.
"come to the right place to educate yourself on the facts"
Right. No bias, no prejudice, no slanted views, just, as Joe Friday says, "the facts."
Uh, when did this happen?
Okay, curious. Edumacate us.
What are the true facts, as you see them?
Quit whining and make us smarter. that's how it works around here.
Right on, Curiouser! Just like a pot luck supper...
bring something to the table.
The Gondolistas have no true facts that would make us smarter, otherewise they would have laid them out long ago. That is why they can only attack the questioners who keep asking where the emperor's clothes are.
One of the things that amazes' me is that the cool aid sippin crowd are still putting out and believing this BS about Peterson putting his own $500,000,000.00 in the deal and at risk. Nothing could be further from the truth as proven by the way the deal is presented by the wanna be developer and his high priced mouth piece.
The citizens of Ogden will be the ones that take the very highest risk and gain the very least reward. It is our park land that we own that is going to be sold off to raise the money for the Urban Gondola and the 400 rich folks houses which will make the Mountain Gondola possible which will make the Malan Basin resort possible. It is a giant fantasy pyramid that the Little Lord wants to build on the humbled backs of the citizens of Ogden. He wants to build it for his own glory and for the benefit of his newest and bestest buddy Chris Peterson who has lips that kissed the billionair's daughter. (The two do cut a fine figure together, Chriss and the little guy. Kinda like Schwartznager and Divito in the movie "Twins")
We live in dangerous times here in Emerald City. We have a mayor who is appearing to be in the early stages of unravelling, he is dead set on forcing this obscene plan onto the citizens of his own city and to do so despite the very large and growing resistance to it.
It has bush leaque, crippling cost overrun, and overwhelming financial disastre written all over it, yet he forges on relentlesly with his fairy tale vision of how to rescue Ogden from the imaginary dragons of destruction that only he and his dwindling circle can see.
Save it by destroying it! Shades of other famous NeoCons?
The most insane part of all is that the City Council is apparently giving some thought to the most totally preposterous proposal that the city has ever received. It was from the completely inexperienced, but wanna be developer Peterson and it basically is asking the city to completely surrender its long established and well working zoning, building, planning and permitting laws to accomodate his raping of the city.
And they are actually looking at it!!!
I believe what Ogden needs right now more than any other single thing in this generation is for one elected politician in the city to stand up and start asking the tough questions and demanding straight and public answers from the mayor and his fellow gondola promoters.
Just one elected person of courage and integrity, just one.
Yep, and STAND UP is the operative phrase. Literally and figuratively.
STAND UP and make the lilliputian look UP, instead of down his nose.
There are so many corrupt practices proposed by this massive ego that I'm wondering why those who KNOW what they are, aren't coming forward?
We need some whistle blowers. Look at Enron.
Do the citizens a favor. Those of you who know what the potentate is proposing, suggesting and planning, it is your duty to spill the rancid beans.
You know who you are.
OZBOY call the person you have been emailing this afternoon. My computer has gone bonkers and I can't "send" anything.
I do have faith in the people of Ogden -- more and more of them are beginning to see through the nonsense that Godfrey and Peterson are feeding them. You do realize, "curious" that everyone has been waiting for some facts, some REAL commitment from Peterson for a year, and to date, all we have is a concept! And that concept keeps changing.
We have Mr. Wilson's informal, and voluntary feasibility study that gives numerous reasons why Peterson won't be able to build a resort in Malan's Basin. I have talked with another gentleman who is a former LO member who became suspicious of nothing but hype and no facts, no plans! He has spent the last 8 months studying the gondola and cities that have built gondolas. He has been over every inch of Malan's Basin and the surrounding land. He showed me the terrain and Malan's Basin and how small it is. I told him it was hard to judge the size of the
basin by the map, and asked how big it was. I was told it was about 170 or 180 acres. Mount Ogden Golf Course is approximately 170 acres. Compare that to SnowBasin! You can't! Can you imagine any kind of resort sitting on land that is the same size as Mt. Ogden Golf Course?! Especially when that land has to contain a fire station, a contained sewer system, the resort would have to have its own securty system, and medical staff. Peterson says his little mountain village would contain restaurants, shops and condos and rooms for overniht visiters. Yeah, I'll question that Peterson will ever build his mountain village because:
1. The area isn't big enough,
2. It will prove to be too costly
3. His source of income isn't
what he thought.
"reaity" you are absolutely right! "Do we need a gondola to nowhere!!"
We will have the whole world laughing at us (Ogden) to think that we were snookered into commiting to build a urban gondola before the resort is built. To make it worse, as Ozboy says:
"people believe that Peterson is putting his own $500,000,000.00 in the deal and at risk. Nothing could be further from the truth! I've read the minutes of that Council work session when Peterson and his shyster attorney presented the deal to the Council. It is Ogden who has to cough up the taxpayer money for the necessary studies, not the developer as it SHOULD BE! The citizens of Ogden will be the ones that take the very highest risk and gain the very least. It is our park land that we own that is going to be sold off to raise the money for the Urban Gondola and the ritzy gated community of 400 or more million dollar homes to line Peterson's pockets and make him a billionaire! It is a giant nightmare for Ogden! What is there to stop Peterson from selling the very property that made him a billionaire? That will put an end to his so-called promises to keep the golf course open and fees reasonable, access to our trails, and maintenance of the urban gondola! Give me one good reason why that won't happen! Only a fool wouldn't take his money and run with such a yoke around his neck.
With Godfrey as mayor -- a mayor who would sell the most beautiful piece of real estate in the City to the person "who gives me the best plan for use of the land," "we live in dangerous times here in Emerald City." We have a mayor who thinks HE KNOWS better than anyone else what is good for Ogden and who is dead set on forcing this obscene plan onto the citizens of his own city and to do so despite the very large and growing resistance to it.
It has DISASTER written all over it, with crippling costs and overruns, and overwhelming maintenance costs. I haven't heard anything about the installation costs of this gondola nightmare of how to rescue Ogden from the imaginary dragons of destruction that only he and his dwindling circle (paid staff) and bribed "friends" can see.
"Save it by destroying it!
"The most insane part of all is that the City Council is apparently giving some thought to the most totally preposterous proposal that the city has ever received. It was from the completely inexperienced, but wanna be developer Peterson and it basically is asking the city to completely surrender its long established and well working zoning, building, planning and permitting laws to accomodate his raping of the city.
"And they are actually looking at it!!!
"I believe what Ogden needs right now more than any other single thing in this generation is for one or two elected City Councilmembers in the city to stand up and start asking the tough questions and demanding straight and public answers from the mayor and his fellow gondola promoters."
Maybe we need to take a lesson from the Police and picket the Mayor's office, and move a van around town protesting the sale of the Mt. Ogden Golf Course, because we did not elect person of integrity, no matter what he SAYS -- ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!
Sharon and others,
I'm sorry I haven't had time to write about the mayor's Thursday night presentation. I still don't have time, but here's the big picture as I see it:
It seems that Godfrey has concocted a numerical argument to try to sell us the urban gondola, kinda like Bob Geiger's numerical arguments for the WSU property sale. Godfrey's argument involves a proposed transit improvement along Washington Blvd. as well as a new proposed trolley making a small loop around downtown. However, like Geiger, our mayor tried too hard to impress us with his ability to do arithmetic, and failed to make his argument sufficiently compelling to his audience. His logic was pretty intricate and, I suspect, intelligible only to those who were already well informed on transit issues. By the same token, I suspect that only the experts picked up on many of the distorted facts, unstated assumptions, and relevant counterarguments. It didn't really matter, though, because it was obvious to everyone that fundamentally this was just another sales pitch for the gondola.
I realize that I'm not providing the details needed to back up this assessment. Perhaps I'll find the time to write up a proper summary later, and post it on another thread as opportunity arises. Meanwhile, those who are interested in transit issues might want to read this summary of the WFRC long range transit plan and the rest of the transit section of the Smart Growth web site.
Thanx, Dan..
Ozboy...I wish you'd make this impassioned speech at a Council meeting, because then it would be recorded!!
Also, if the TV stations would come to put this on the news, the folks all around would see the manipulations of the mayor and dwindling 'friends.'
What scares me is that Peterson has never let us know how solvent he is, who his investors are, (tho the mayor says that '25 million will come from private investors'), nor is he willing to PAY for any studies. The mayor, however, in that work meeting with Ellison stated that 'we will' pay!
You bet...and over and over and over!
You know, Ozboy...I think a huge van with clever signage parking all over town is just the 'voice' we need. Who will he and Jon fire this time??
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