It's the end of an era in Emerald City, fellow lumpencitizens. This morning's Ace Reporter Schwebke story reports that Boss Godfrey's financial brain has jumped ship:
OGDEN — Scott Brown, Ogden’s sometimes controversial business development manager, has resigned.During the short period during 2005-06 (when Boss Godfrey permitted Scott to take and return our phone calls,) we had a fine and candid dialogue with Mr. Brown; and to a very large extent we share Mr. Harmer's assessment. Scott is an extremely talented guy -- so long as his activities are confined to the finance arena, at least. As we all know, Scott's not so hot, when it comes to political commentary.
Brown’s last day on the job was Monday, said John Patterson, the city’s chief administrative officer. Brown could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
However, he has said he informed his bosses, Director of Community and Economic Development Dave Harmer and Mayor Matthew Godfrey, more than a year ago that he would stay with the city long enough to oversee completion of the Salomon Center, a $19.5 million, high-adventure recreation facility slated to open in June at the former Ogden City Mall site.
A replacement for Brown could be hired within a month, Patterson said.
Brown began working for Ogden in 1999 and was being paid $85,991 annually when he left. He didn’t receive a severance package from the city, Harmer said.
“He’s a talented guy who has contributed a lot to the city,” Harmer said. “I’m sorry to see him go.”
And there is absolutely no doubt in our minds that Mr. Brown will be missed by Boss Godfrey, and some of the "suits" on his "A" team. The entire $multi-million borrow-and-spend edifice which surrounds our Emerald City RDA is Scott Brown's "creative" handiwork. It will be interesting to see whether Boss Godfrey (or anyone else who is hired as his replacement) will have the brains and cajones to keep it propped up.
It comes as no surprise, of course, that Mr. Brown's voluntary departure was NOT accompanied by a severance bonus. Even authoritarian blockheads like Boss Godfrey are minimally capable of learning their lessons -- especially in a municipal election year.
And we look forward down the road to the prospective early announcement of Mr. Brown's "retention," under some anticipated future "consulting contract" -- or other lucrative "retirement arrangement." We know that Boss Godfrey always "takes care" of his "friends";" and that it's highly unlikely that Mr. Brown will be necessarily cut out in the future from the fruits of Boss Godfrey's municipal "spoils system."
Have at it, gentle readers. It's time to indulge in reminiscence about Scott's past accomplishments, we think, and to contemplate the future of Emerald City, assuming, in a "worst case scenario," that Scott Brown has actually exited the stage permanently.
Don't let the cat get your tongues.
Update 5/3/07 5:27 p.m. MT: Speaking of bonuses, I can think of ONE Ogden guy who deserves one. OPD officer Ken Hammond has just been awarded a very prestigious national law enforcement award. Read all about it here.
67 comments:
Severence pay arrangements are only triggered, I think, when the City terminates an appointee against the employee's wishes [or, in the past, when a charade could be arranged retroactively pretending that happened even when it didn't]. They are not triggered when an appointee voluntarily resigns or retires. And since the storied "retroactive [non]-involuntary resignation and instant re-hiring with lump sum payout" involving I think Mr. Reid some years ago, and the subsquent revision of severance pay rules by the council to make sure such cronyism did not occur at taxpayers' expence again, there really was no chance of arranging a "resignation bonus" this time round for a voluntary departure.
Funny (or maybe not) that you should mention Scrupulous Stu Reid. A new contender in Downtown Ogden's revival, Reid & Reid Properties LLC, now owns the northwest corner of the former mall site and plans a mixed-use building on the site. Given "Slick" Scott's expertise in reclaiming Ogden (by whatever means), might he parachute into Bishop Reid's new shop? Were they buddies (Ozboy may speculate on Kokomo Klub assignations) or did they hate each other?
Such was also the case at the time of the award by Boss Godfrey of Stuart Reid's purported 2000 "oral contract," Curmudgeon.
Later ordinances merely clarified existing authority.
Authority for employee pay plans HAS ALWAYS resided in the city council only, to the exclusion of the Mayor's office.
It remains our position that the Reid severance was illegal, a position that was apparently shared by the 2005 council's outside attorneys, when the then-sitting council squelched an opinion letter, which had been requested to review the legality of Boss Godfrey's action.
Rudi:
Ah, I see. So, following the retroactive [non]-involuntary handshake quiet arrangement for Mr. Reid, the Council then in office boldly, bravely clarified the rules to make it clear to Hizzonah and Cronies that they really could not do what they were not allowed to do.
With visionary leadership like that, how can the people of Ogden fail to prosper? Such boldness... such vision... such courage....
When Mr. Scotty Brown was hired he was given all sort of perks, such as sexual favors from the brown angels. how much did that cost the city? that is where brown's severance went! To pay off the angels to keep quiet. I understand that the city RDA's are now running millons in the red because of the give away programs to all the ski companies. And when the Mayor said that he would retire the debt in Nine years, it looks like he thinks that this was monopoly money, He has been in office 7 years but it will take 9 years to pay of his give away programs to the cronies.
why didn't he tell the SE that part of the debt to be payed off, was the 5 millon dollar lawsuit that we are now paying intrest on. He just does not give the whole truth and Maybe that is why many of the citizens think that godfrey is a big lier. the SE just does not know how to ask the right questions do they? come on SE do your job and put the truth out there where all can see. don't let the little man tower over you. After all don't we have freedom of the press, in this country?
Good Riddance!
Now we have a few more to send packing.
Perhaps the following is not entirely unrelated to the main theme of this thread. The Salt Lake City Weekly has another example of the kind of investigative digging perhaps more Utah papers should do in its issue this week. [Link here.]
The story is about a new coal-fired generator to be built in Sevier County, but in the course of digging, the reporter tried to find out who, exactly, owned the land about to be sold to a power company to begin construction, and how the re-zoning of the land for the plan was arranged. And therein lies a tale I think might be of some interest to Ogdenites. Here is a portion of reporter Jonah Owen Lamb's story:
Sevier Power Company is a private corporation and a subsidiary of NEVCO Power, based in Nevada. But the sign outside its offices [in Bountiful] reads: “Magna Energy,” a reference to NEVCO’s earlier and now-defunct Nevada arm that built a power plant in Henderson, Nev.
Neither Sevier Power Company nor NEVCO have Websites, and neither is listed in Nevada or Utah phone directories. NEVCO’s articles of incorporation list a Las Vegas address, along with 3,684 other corporations that share the same listing agent. Sevier Power Company and a bevy of companies attached to its owners have the same Bountiful address. Bruce Taylor, manager of Sevier Power Company, says owning subsidiaries isn’t unusual....
When City Weekly tried to contact Sevier Power Company, the only contact that could be found was an accountant named Kristi Taylor, who according to tax documents works for a nonprofit named TDA Foundation. TDA foundation is owned by the same investors as Sevier Power Company. But, instead of a TDA representative answering the phone, a man identifying himself as Bruce Taylor answered, saying, “Sevier Power Company.” On a second call, a secretary picked up the phone and said, “Corporate offices....”
Taylor seemed as much in the dark about the nonprofit TDA (which stands for Trabajo de Amor or Labor of Love) Foundation, of which he is a trustee, as the public is of NEVCO and Sevier Power Company. He didn’t know what kind of charity work the foundation does or to whom it had donated. But he did know that TDA owns the site for the proposed power plant. Taylor explained that TDA bought the land in order to sell it to Sevier Power Company. With the profits from the sale, they plan to donate to needy South Americans, said Taylor.
But, in its more than five years of doing business, TDA Foundation has donated only $1,300 to charity, according to its 990 federal tax forms. It gave $300 to two local charities and $1,000 to a group called Sevier Community Development. Yet TDA’s real-estate holdings are worth over $1 million. The organization has given so little thus far, said Taylor, because it hasn’t yet sold the land to Sevier Power Company.
The vast majority of the funds TDA has received come from Ken Flake, according to its tax form. Flake is part-owner of NEVCO and Sevier Power Company. So he will, in essence, sell himself the land.
Other questions arose from TDA’s 2004 tax form. That year, it listed one grantee: Sevier Community Development. Unlisted and unknown to county officials, this entity apparently does not exist. When City Weekly asked for the current business listed at the address on the tax form, two were given: a salon and Savage Surveying. While neither had heard of Sevier Community Development or of the $1,000 from TDA, a representative from Savage Surveying confirmed the company had surveyed TDA’s land in Sigurd....
The trail of confusion regarding the plant includes alleged conflicts of interest from buying the land to the rezoning that allows the plant to be built on agricultural land. Sevier Power Company and its supporters contend that everything is on the up-and-up. But [plant opponent] Canon described the process with one word: “disgrace.”
Real estate agent Tad Staples, who handled the sale of the land to TDA, also sits on the county’s economic development board, which recommended the plant be built....
As for the zoning board, at least one now-retired member has direct economic interests in the plant’s construction. He did not disclose this when he voted for the zoning change, said Canon. Newel Hales, who voted for the zoning change, owns Hales Sand and Gravel, a large concrete business in the region. Sevier Power Company’s Bruce Taylor did not say if he would use Hale’s company to build the plant. Hales had no comment.
A cautionary tale for Ogden there perhaps? Or perhaps not. But certainly worth thinking about, and maybe poking into a bit by a soup-stained disheveled reporter or two? If perchance there should be, say, an Ogden non-profit Foundation that acquired property for the purpose of selling it to private developers, whose board members also hold positions in the city government bodies recommending the sale?
The entire SL City Weekly article is well worth the reading, I think.
Is it my suspicious mind, or one of those rare cosmic coincidences
that Scott Brown retires just moments before the city tries out its brand new "Nasal Ranger Field Olfactometer"?
Just looking at the 2006 city audit, Ogden City corp. has 94 million in outstanding debt. How come Godfrey's clain of paying off the debt only reflects a small 20 million or so? What specificly does he include as debts to be paid? Which debts are to be left off this list and how could he make that statement. Please clarify Council.
Would someone post a link on Godfrey's claim that the city owes about $20 million and he's arranged for it to be paid off in 9 years?
Also, Bill C. can you tell me where to quickly find the $94 million number?
The discrepancy seems like "letter to the editor" material.
I'll read the city weekly article while I'm waiting.
Dum dee dum ...
Ninety-four million dollars?
I suspect that can't be right, that at least some of comes from annual operating expenses [like salaries and wages for city employees] carried on the books as debt [which it is] but which is also budgeted for, annually, out of current revenues. That's not normally what people mean when they talk about the city's debt. Is that what part of the money represents? Please?
If the city's bonded indebtedness plus RDA obligations truly constitute $94,000,000 I'd be surprised. And appalled.
What makes me doubt here is this: I don't see how the city's bond rating could be as it is with $94,000,000 worth of outstanding debt for a city of about 87,000 people and a not particularly robust property tax situation.
So, just asking, of what exactly that debt consists. Hoping very much that it does not all represent long term debt.
I just found the info about Godfrey's $20 million number (on a previous thread.) Now I need the easy route to find the $94 million number. BILL?
Shocking Curm? No kidding. I can believe it. If true, everyone needs to know about it (and to see how Godfrey distorts the truth.)
Tell me where to find it and I'll write a letter to the editor for the benefit of the non-WCF readers in the community, using my real name.
The auditor's summary, They included all RDA's noting that the city is responsible for RDA debt ultimately, therefore thet included it as outstading debt.
Why do tou suppose lien's are being place on the justice court and the publicworks buildings? Seems alot of outside entities have some concerns regarding how extended the city is now.
"The auditor's summary, They included all RDA's noting that the city is responsible for RDA debt ultimately, therefore thet included it as outstading debt. "
Could this be the auditor's report to which you refer, Bill C.?
Ogden City Comprehensive Financial Report-- Year Ended June 30, 2006
(Click the link on the archive page to view the document)
Coincidentally, we uploaded this document only a couple of hours ago.
when you look at the report go to page 119 and read from there.
I wonder if boss Godfrey really has the cahonus to take on Rep. Hansen in the mayors race or is the city so screwed up that He will walk away from it all. lets see what the little man really is made of. after all bull shit walks. I can't wait to hear what the little man will do. or is he a coward?
it is actually page 124 of the document, that is where you will see the 93,000,000.00 debt.
I wonder if this future plan also includes future shortfalls from BDO, Aren't they allready about 1 million behind schedule? Could further borrowing, about doubling the debt, for a circus like sky-ride be concidered sound fiscal policy? Sounds like a young couple that gets a 40 yr. morgage on a $250,000.00 home, and adds 2 new cars, a boat and a trailer into that loan thinking they just made a killing. Oh, I forgot the maturity factor for little matty. Wise beyond his years.
My understanding is that the $20 million in debt that the Mayor plans to eliminate is shown on page 124 as general obligation bonds, which is the debt to be paid out of the city's general fund. All of the other indebtness is debt that is paid out of a dedicated revenue stream, such as tax increment, lease revenues, etc.
So, for example, if the city sold bonds to pay for buildings constructed at BDO, the bonds are repaid exclusively from the lease payments for those buildings, and bond holders cannot look to the city generally for repayment.
Likewise, I believe tax increment bonds can be paid only out of increased property tax revenues as a result of a particular development or development area. The bond holders cannot look to the city to make up the difference if the tax increment revenue falls below what is needed for bond payments.
These types of revenue bonds are special because they are used only to create a new revenue producing asset that in turn pays off the bond indebtness. In essence, the bondholders are investing in that revenue producing asset, and can only look to its revenue stream for repayment. For good or bad, it is a potent means to bring outside investment dollars to Ogden.
General revenue bonds are different because they are backed by the full faith and credit of Ogden City, and ultimately, city taxpayers. Therefore, they can affect the city's credit rating and budget. It appears that this is the reason the mayor is focusing on general obligation debt reduction.
Rudi:
Thanks for posting the document. Lots of interesting numbers on p. 124. I found this one interesting: the per capita indebtedness of Ogden city doubled between 2005 and 2006. Doubled.
Much of the 93 million total consists of tax increment revenue bond indebtedness [50.5 million dollars]. In essence, all that money has been wagered... bet... on various development projects. If it all works out as hoped, additional tax revenues will be there to handle servicing the debt. If the bet goes bad, Ogden city taxpayers are on the spot for paying the debt off. But note, even subtracting the 50 million of tax increment bonding [which I suspect Hizzonah will insist isn't really debt], that still lives someting on the order of 43 million in city debt, not the 20 or so Hizzonah was speaking of Tuesday evening.
Perhaps we might all suggest, ever so politely to the SE news department that Hizzonah's numbers from the recent Council meeting need to be examined, rather than merely reported. Since the city's auditors seem to have said quite recently that the city's debt is 93 million [not twenty million] and, even taking out the tax increment based debt, the debt seems to be around 43 million dollars, not twenty million, in what sense was it.... oh, what's the word here.... accurate? honest? forthcoming?.... for Hizzonah to have said he has a plan to get Ogden "out of debt" in nine years, and that the size of that debt was 20-25 million?
It's been suggested here, and not only by me, that one of the shortcomings of the SE's political reportage of Ogden City matters is a tendency to accept statements, figures, assertions of public officials, like the Mayor, at face value and to simply report them, rather than to examine them to see if they can stand up in the light of evidence. Seems to me this matter of the size of Ogden's debt might be a good example of that unhappy tendency in the SE.
We shall see.
Fact Checker:
As I recall... and I could be wrong on this... very late in the process, the Mayor came to the Council and told the members that the city had to agree to guarantee payment of the Mall project bonds [to build the Rec Center, etc] because without the city becoming, in effect, a co-signer and pledging its full faith and credit for repayment if the project did not generate sufficient revenues to service the bonds, the bonds would not be issued. If I'm remembering that wrongly, happy to be corrected.
My guess is that after all the bull shit condenses out of the atmosphere and the dust settles, that the tax payers of Ogden will be on the hook for about $50 to $70 million in shaky Godfrey ventures.
Ventures that all have highly inflated preforma data when committed to, and that all depend on miraculous and unheard of performance for them to pay off their debt.
It is Matt's old "finance by credit card" game multiplied by a hundred million dollars of tax payer money! Virtually everything possible in Ogden is hocked up to our eye balls, and it all depends on this zany "town at the bottom of the ski lift" fantasy trip that our mayor has taken us all on.
If any or all off these wild ventures that we are funding goes squirrily the associated debt is going to land at all of our door steps. In the worse case scenario the whole damn house of cards could come crashing down. Every property owner in Weber County will be negatively impacted if Ogden, Inc. goes belly up.
Unfortunately, when the shinola hits the rotating blade, Godfrey and his circle of empty suits will be crusin in the Carribian on their "profits".
As far as Brown leaving town without some "bonus", I say BS! I'm with Rudi on this one, some how, some way this dude will be getting a substantial sandwich out of Lord Godfrey's larder.
Brown also most likely is going to remain in the inner Godfrey voodoo circle as he is the only one that has the brains to keep it all straight, and knows where the bodies are buried, and knows the lies that have been told. It is after all an extremely convoluted and complex web these spiders have woven these past years.
Whoever becomes the new mayor damn well better have a team of good forensic accountants on board his transition team!
"Finance by credit card." How very Republican.
Exactly right, Curmudgeon.
The Rec Center revenue bond debt is secured by a claim against Business Depot Ogden revenue. BDO revenue paid the first bond installment recently, BTW, to the tune of $750 thousand dollars.
What's more, the rec center bonds also contain a "moral obligation pledge," which, as a practical matter, would require additional monies to be paid toward the bond debt by the taxpayers, in the event of a BDO revenue shortfall.
Scott Brown told admitted this to us himself, BTW, during the period of time he was still taking our calls.
Boss Godfrey was so intent in following through with his Pee-wee's Playhouse project at the time, that he accepted whatever financing he could get. Mr. Brown shopped around for several months looking for favorable financing terms, and the foregoing was the best that could be obtained in the private bond market.
Ozboy's above post also gets it right, in good old-fashioned Emerald City colloquial terminology.
"Fact Checker" is merely parroting the Godfrey lies. The reckless rec center bonding amounts to the commercial equivalent of borrowing from a loan shark, in our not-so-humble opinion.
I'll bet you all a coke that Scott Brown is back within 90 days as a consultant to the city
Rudi:
Thanks for the info.
But maybe we need to cut fact checker a little slack. Seems possible, even likely, he or she may be someone familiar [certainly more familiar than I am] with various kinds of city project bonding, and he or she was describing the way such bonds usually work [bond holders can't come after the taxpayers if the projects go belly up]. Seems reasonable to me [absent other evidence] to assume that Fact Checker may not be familiar with how things are done in Ogden under Hizzonah's leadership as compared to how they are done in most cities and so described in the post the common practice of cities in re: tax increment bonds.
Point well taken, Curmudgeon.
Nobody outside the MattGodfreyWorld bubble seems to realize the financial recklessnes of the Little Twerp.
Our apologies to Fact Checker. How could he have known that the Land of Oz exists in an upside-down, Bizarro universe?
We'll give him the benefit of the doubt... for now.
Thanks to those who posted the information I requested.
Fact Checker: You are correct in theoretical and superficial terms, but incorrect in fact and practice. The differences between general obligation bonds, tax increment bonds, lease revenue bonds and other sorts of notes that cities issue are mainly political. They allow politicians to spend money while appearing neither to raise taxes nor borrow money. However, in practice they are viewed by both debtor and creditor as general municipal debt, and they do usually require tax increases to pay them off. The differences in these types of debt are subtle, and largely meaningless in practice. Due that fact that your comments made liberal use of the words, “I believe,” I take your views as genuine, and assume your statements reflect only innocent naiveté. Sadly, one does not properly assume the same for governments that use these debt mechanisms.
fact checker -
You do not have your facts straight. There is no debt that taxpayers are not responsible for in the final reckoning.
To restate - taxpayers are responsible for all debt.
Quit parroting the Ogden Mayor and RDA bunch because their statements are not true..
Also, don't overlook the fact that the millions of debt due on the Rec Center is not included in the total figure of debt owing as of June 30, 2006.
Depending on the final cost over runs that could be another $25 million.
Don't forget to add in the potential cost of the River Front RDA project of unknown millions.
I hope all of you read today's article regarding Layton's looking at going into Economic Development, better known as EDA.
To this point Layton has been smart and has not fallen for RDA tax increment giveaways. And look at which city in the area that has attracted more businesses without taxpayers' help than Layton.
Too bad their city planners have caught the itch to do any EDA projects either.
Layton is the perfect proof that cities can do better wihout the taxpayer giveaways
Now that Brown is gone (more or less), some people might be inclined to forget the sexual harassment allegations and the general issue of providing a safe work environment and protecting the civil rights of city employees. But Brown's case wasn't the only cause for concern, and I hope the someone (City Council?) will still work to implement better policies and better enforcement.
Dan, Brown may have left the building, but the architects of the porn/sexual harrasment cover-up are all still in place. Maybe some soup stained reporter could interview the new replacement for Dean Martinez. Questions in that vein might provoke some very interesting responses, given gender and other conciderations of the new department head. She has had time to get her feet wet, and with Browns departure, who could possibly be against looking into the shortcomings of the current policy.
Layton citizens are up in arms about a 'developer' wanting to build on unstable hillsides....the scene of houses sliding and yards broken up.
The Layton Council is 'going slow' on rezoning for development. Too bad this Council can't 'go slow' too.
The way this mayor is giving his cronies valuable land all over town....our hillside will be next.
Taking the pledge:
OK, I admit, I loved the phrase so much I've posted it here at least three times. Maybe four. But it's getting out of hand. I hereby swear [picture me with my hand on L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth, Mitt Romney's favorite book in all the world] never again to refer to any reporter as "soup stained."
I can shake the habit. I can. I can....
There is all sorts of new commercial activity along Harrison in South Ogden while commercial property (for example the former Subway shop and the large building perpendicular to Smith's on Harrison at Country Hills) in Ogden sits vacant.
Maybe someone in City Hall should wonder what Ogden is doing wrong compared to it's neighbor to the South.
Curm. soup stained aint that bad, at least you haven't refered to them(?) as milque toast.
Ogden Lover:
Not unrelated, entirely.... Recall Hizzonah's recent statement that he will not support improved transit along the corridor favored by WFRC [downtown to Harrison, then Harrison to WSU and McKay-Dee Hospital] because it would "only serve students."
Today, I rode UTA Bus 603 from WSU to downtown. Boarded at WSU about 3:40. Eight people already on the bus [before it got to WSU]. Three boarded at WSU. After we left WSU but before we got downtown, 15 more passengers boarded. 26 riders total, only three of whom boarded at WSU. Coming back the other way, by the time the bus got to Washington and 25th, there were 20 on board. More than half of them got off at four stops between Washington and 32nd and Harrison where I got off. None of those stops, not one, would be served by Hizzonah's proposed tourist sky ride flatland gondola. None of them.
So the notion that an improved transit service over that route... say a trolley system... would serve "only WSU students" is nonsense, as any regular rider of that bus would know.
There are only two ways to interpret Mayor Godfrey's statement: (1) he truly does not know who takes public transit on that route in Ogden or (2) he knows perfectly well, but pretends otherwise in order to preserve the route for his tourist sky-ride.
If it's (1), he's incompetent. UTA tells me the 603 is the busiest route in the city . It's the Mayor's job to know that too, and to know that many many non-students use public transit over that route. Claiming he does know [when he doesn't] and insisting that "only" students would benefit from improved transit on the route is incompetent. It's part of his job to either know things like that, or to find them out before pontificating on them in public.
If it's (2), he's simply dishonest, and willing to mislead the public in order to divert transit improvements over that route so as to protect the route for his tourist sky-ride boondoggle.
If anyone can think of another plausible explanation for his statement that improved transit on that route would only serve WSU students, I'll be happy to listen to it, and with an open mind. But the two above are the only two explanations I can think of. Neither one does the Mayor much credit.
Curm, it's not incompetence, you know as well as I and anyone else who has followed this transit thing for a while. This mayor is working overtime to derail all UTA, WFRC and WACOG's previous work, and lobbyinghard to get sympathy for his fairy tale sky-ride from anyone he can. Sad thing is, if rumor proves accurate, he has sleazed $250,000.00 from UTA, which he intends to use to pay for a study to justify his fantasy. Sorry to say, not incompetence, this guy's a pathalogical liar.
I would also add, despite the laurels deserved for UTA, who ever made that decission to grant Godfrey's request, should have their own competence evaluated.Are not these guys mass transit experts?
The truth will be revealed. Scott Brown is being investigated right now by the county investigators for shady business dealings. Perhaps some that benefitted him and his cohorts, is the word on the street. There are not any formal charges as of now which is why the Standard has gotten wind of it, but there is an investigator on his trail. This is from a good source within. The truth will be revealed.
You heard it here first folks.
Correction: ... why the Standard has NOT gotten wind of it.
This is why we need to elect Neil Hansen for mayor. This way we won't have all this negative back door deals going on.
Og iii:
Secret allegations and even on-going investigation do not equal guilt. They don't even equal wink/wink/nudge/nudge guilt.
This isn't a quibble, it's important. Reporting that someone is under investigation, if he is, is news, and the SE ought to be on that. But the kind of wink wink nudge nudge implication/assumption that someone who is rumored to be under investigation necessarily means he or she must be guilty of skullduggery is wrong. We need to remember that often investigation leads to no charges, leads to the investigators concluding that nothing wrong has been done, no crime has been committed. It is manifestly and demonstrably not true of investigations of public officials that "where there's smoke, there is fire."
Brown's entitled to a pass with respect to charges of illegal activity until, at the very least, he is formally charged with criminal conduct. At that point, when a DA or some other competent authority, has decided there is evidence enough to support charges and a trial, people can begin with some reason drawing conclusions about probable guilt or innocence.
A good illustration of what can, and too often, does happen is Elect Neil Hansen's post, which leaps to the assumption that, and strongly implies that, Mr. Brown was involved in some kind of illegal business activity.
I think highly of Rep. Hansen, and will be delighted to see him replace Mayor Godfrey as Mayor should that occur, but I am willing to bet that during the campaign or during his Mayorality, if Hansen wins, someone for political reasons will allege that he was or is engaged in some kind of skullduggery. And if that happens, Mr. Hansen will want, and should get, a pass on the allegations unless or until he is formally charged with or convicted of skullduggery. He'll want, and will be entitled to, the same pass on rumored allegations and rumored investigations that we need now to extend to Mr. Brown. Fair's fair.
Curm, you are absolutely correct, and I may point out the Stuart Reid deal that just occured. The same guy that sold property as acting head of the RDA, has now since leaving his role in that function, returned to personally reaquire it. Due to the fact that the the business end of the local dominant theology was involed, the potential improprieties have really been dismissed.(was there a nod, wink-wink involed in those earlier deals?) It will be interesting to follow future transactions to see if Mr. Brown returns in some capacity, to capitalize on his previous dealings. Legality Vs. Smell Test.
Regarding Curmudgeon's May 3rd jaunt on UTA Route 603: precisely. I can't think of anything better a mayor or public official could do to demonstrate being "in touch" with the rank-&-file than to take public transportation to work. In Elder Godfrey's case, how could it be more convenient from his Tyler Ave. digs than to walk a block to Harrison & 26th to board #603 to the Municipal Bldg. But no, never in the cards; unworthy of his "more exalted sphere." This is precisely why I smelled a rat from Day One of the floating of the gondola proposal: the mayor, the Allens, the Geigers -- not one of these buffoons has ever deigned to use public transportation in their lives, and yet here they were clamoring for the UTA to fund the gondola. There is nothing more disingenuous in recent Ogden history.
Ya Curm I know that he is not proven guilty as of now. As I said, he is being investigated. I did not imply guilt. But the fact from a very good reliable source is that he is being investigated as of the week before he left in such a hurry. He was committed until mid May and his departure came as a surprise to his team. County investigators have been digging at the RDA files and personnel. That is the fact, not his guilt. And like I said, the truth will be revealed... one way or the other. I personally feel Scott Brown got alot done while he was in his position for this city. If he benefitted personally or anybody else close to him that is another matter. But he did get alot done, and he is under investigation and did leave his position early. Those are the facts.
Bill,
I agree with you that the strength of the UTA, WFRC and WACOG personalities is lacking. They are very nice people who take transit seriously. At every one of the presentations they seem to be trotting out incomprehensible forecasts and options. The representatives all speak from a defensive stance and use excessively justifying language revealing their knowledge that the public is not ready for the sacrifices in a post-peak-oil future. They sound generally unconvinced and unconvincing. It is especially disheartening to hear their resignation that BRT is our most economical and realistic option. They also have no stomach or strategy for the urban gondola misinformation campaign. This is a sad example of niceties getting in the way of public policy. The mayor violates his leadership role and forces anyone questioning his obsession to be extra assertive, leading to accusations of excess passion and angry delivery. We are getting nowhere.
BOOT JACK CLOSED ON THE PROPERTY!
Tc, (new abrv.?) I concur but I am not willing to concede. What we need is a full campain, educational, that highlights the great asset the street car can be. Much more than transpatation, it can spur development and allow control of that developement. Even as an attraction, a streetcar out does a sky ride, leaving the primary function aside. It also allows for foot traffic thru-out the coridor,something the chamber of commerce needs to be educated on. Businesses all along the coridor benefit from increaced pedestrian traffic. More have a reason to locate in the coridor. None of this can be achieved with a sky ride. All potential customers sail over the traffic starved businesses, no way to exit then return. It' sad to see the chamber hijacked by so few short sighted idiots, as it has been so far, and shame on us for engaging them with such animosity. We need to fully engage them and educate them. There's no way if all the facts are on the table,a businessman could support this stupid childish fantasy over a proven transt/ecconomic development tool,as is the street car.
If the investigation on Brown discloses corruption, you can bet that those sooooo close to him will go down too.
This admin is coming off the rails...heading for a train wreck.
Just to highlight some other advantages, LESS Parking would be required, more businesses,less parking lots. This would also encourage the use of the street car, sort of self perpetuating. We need to get as many people out of their vehicles as we can, air quality matters, and conjestion greatly enhances the amount of pollution produced per vehicle. Tourism Vs. Green. What ever enducements these outdoor companies have received to locate here, their survival will not be enhanced or inproved via tourism. These are not retailers, they have no retail outlets locally. They do however have an image to uphold with the consumers of their products, which is more and more GREEN, ENVIROMENTALLY conscious, these companies, despite what has been said so far, will have no choice but to fall in with the street car when we press this issue. They too will live here. They can be converted, as I beleive so can the majority of chamber members. We do have much work to do, but we can do it. The future of our way of live is at stake, the street car is a very wise, long term solution. The sky-ride , a very sad short term, costly, stupid joke.
My sense is that the good folks at these transit presentations just grin and bear it when they come to Ogden. They know the score and the local murk into which they trod. A far cry from the enthusiasm they encounter just 30 miles south. SLC can't get enough of transit. They are heroes down there. We are the laughing stock.
Kudos to Officer Hammond.
This fine young officer brings honor to his department, Ogden and UTAH!
Makes us proud to be from Ogden!
Ken Hammond puts a good taste in our mouths after the sour swill Godfrey is cramming down our throats.
Go Ken Hammond!!!
Transit corridors become the desirable residential locales where automobile ownership is an option rather than a necessity. Values rise and more corridors demand transit. Self perpetuating, indeed. Ogden is the perfect size city for citywide streetcar service. The simple grid and manageable size makes it a natural.
sustainable green community is marketable as a place to live. The recreation assets were here before there were humans. We never needed a bowling alley and energy intensive thrill rides to be considered an outdoor recreation destination. Tourism is so overrated as an economic foundation. It's seasonal, trendy, fickle and impacted by high fuel prices.
Curmudgeon
In your normal rush to fairness I think you misinterpreted the situation vs-a-vis Niel Hansen and Scott Brown. You pointed out Brown aint guilty until proven so, rightly so. Then you created an example comparing Hansen to Brown. The real comparison is Hansen and the mayor. You know, the mayor you so freely point out who is so ethically challenged. In that regard, perhaps that original Hansen booster's post wasn't so far off the mark after all?
And Moroni,
the real reason the little Lord doesn't take the bus is
because he can't follow city employees around when he is on the it! It's also a little embarrassing for him because he can't keep the seams straight on those special black fish net hose he is so partial to, especially when sitting up on bus seats, and he hates it when the public sees him with crooked seams.
Ozboy:
Ethical lapses by public officials are fair game, all the time. But implying that folks [in office or out] have committed crimes is a whole other ballgame. And that's what I thought Og iii's post was implying without outright saying.
Wasn't intending to compare Rep. Hansen with Brown, merely recognizing that, sadly, in these parlous times, very nearly any candidate for significant elective office, or holder of such post, or major appointee of such, is going to have rumored allegations of skullduggery wispered about at some point or another. Raise questions about Mr. Brown's conduct of his office, and the enthics thereof [or lack of them], and it's fair game. But alleging that a crime has been committed via rumor of an informal unofficial investigation [which by its very nature cannot be confirmed or denied]... well, as I said, that's a whole other ballgame for me.
Don't mean to be persnickity about this, but I see ast WSU among students a tendency [off campus too] to treat news that somebody is being investigated as evidence of guilt. They go in a heartbeat from seeing a story about an investigation of Officeholder X to saying "Hey, officeholder X got nabbed with his hands in the cookie jar." Scary, sometimes, how fast they make the jump, how almost eager they are to make it. So this particular matter is pretty much on my radar screen all the time.
Curmudgeon
Maybe it is not "how eager" they do it as it is how calloused and cynical they have become through repeated observation?
A serious and official investigation of most politicians usually results in them being guilty. Movie stars can kill their old ladies and cruise, but politicians can't seem to win many with a jury! Let's face it, there aint many guilt free politicians in NeoCon Utah and the good old USofA.
So it might be more than some lazy students, and complacent Fox TV addicted citizens, that is behind these conclusion jumpers?
So, what do you think the odds are that Brown is actually under investigation?
I give it about a 10 percent chance. Brown is way to smart to have blatantly busted the law. Isn't he?
DeCaria is much to interested in chasing the real bad guys. Isn't he?
Brown apparently has some pretty savvy and crafty mouth pieces advising him. Surely they wouldn't let him violate the law. Would they?
About the only reason he or any of the rest of those smart fellers in fancy suits would ever break the law is if they got a bit arrogant and big for their two pants suits. Now I don't think any of the mayor's circle of suits would go and do anything like that. Would they?
Now come on Curm, ya gotta admit that it would be absolutely delicious to see the feds perp walk Godfrey out of city hall! It ainta gonna happen, but what a vision!
Personally I would take a good old honest Hansen any day over our every day slip slidin Godfrey. Hansen seems to luv's Da folks while Godfrey obvously hates em. Can't get more politically basic than that.
Curm...As I said before, Scott Brown is being investigated by a county investigator. Period. That is a fact. I am not implying guilt at all no more then anybody should be saying Gadi is guilty for the state of Cali investigation. He is under investigation and he did leave his job hastily weeks before he had told the city. Thats it and factual. This is not just a rumor that there is an investigation. Although not a formal charge but this source is through the rda office by those being interviewed. I am sure the Standard is not touching it yet because there are not charges made at this time. This is from sources within the city that worked with/for him and that is pretty reliable as to the investigation itself. He is innocent until proven guilty if he ends up even being charged anyway. And guess who helped Reid get into the project in the Junction? Guess who got Gadi the land near the freeway and Bootjack on the land he got. Not to mention a few other buddies projects. Did he benefit personally on any of these deals? Well that is what they are wanting to find out. Period. Just the facts.
We'd all like to know what the payoff to Godfrey, Allens, Patterson, et al will be? Some close to the mayor seemed halfway decent at one time...so to be known as MINIONS of a corrupt mayor calls for a tidy payoff as trade.
If the Feds don't haul them off in handcuffs first.
Curm:
Regarding the mayor's failure to mention other potential transit users besides WSU students, I think there's another dimension that you should have mentioned. This is the dimension of economic level and social class.
College students matter to the mayor because even if they aren't wealthy and may not vote, their parents are often wealthy and vote. Tourists matter to the mayor because they have money and they spend some of it here. But most of the people who ride the 603 bus, who get on or off in the east-central neighborhood, don't matter to the mayor because they don't have money and they don't vote.
The mayor's vision is to have a two-tiered transit system in which the poor continue to ride local buses while the rich and the priveleged (including college students) sail overhead in a gondola. This is why Peterson has suggested a possible gondola station at 30th and Harrison but not at 23rd and Monroe, even though the density of transit users and destinations is much higher at the latter location.
So while the mayor is technically being dishonest when he says the route would serve only college students, he would consider the inaccuracy to be inconsequential because most of the other potential riders simply don't count.
I should add that even by his narrower definition of riders (who count), the mayor is missing a potentially significant group: east bench residents who would not ride a bus (for good or bad reasons), but who would ride a streetcar into downtown for shopping, dining, or entertainment. As downtown parking becomes scarce in the future, the availability of a streetcar could be an important factor in continued growth.
Extremely good points, Dan.
Those who won't ride a bus to dine out or take in a play, would enjoy the charm of being on a streetcar!
The mayor needs to take off his blinders. He's going to get an awful crick in his scrawny neck if he just keeps peering up looking for those gondola cables.
Dan S:
I've ridden TRAX in SLC and I've ridden the downtown trolley line between Portland State and the business district in Portland, OR and on both urban rail transit systems the ridership seems to come [in so far as I can tell by looking around] from widely across the class spectrum [below the chauffered limo set of course]. You're right about the bulk of the 603 riders off campus appearing to be from the lower ends of the earnings spectrum , though perhaps the distribution is not quite as skewed as you suggest. [I ride the 603 every day during the work week.]
So from what I've seen now in two cities, urban rail transit does seem to draw more across class lines than does bus only transit. I've never ridden BRT anywhere so I don't know about its rider draw in terms of class.
Just cause he said it, does'nt mean it's true.
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