by Dan Schroeder
Last Saturday evening I came home to find one of Mayor Godfrey's campaign signs in my next-door neighbor's yard. I'm pretty sure Bob Geiger put it there: a friend of mine reported seeing him leaving the scene in his pickup a few hours earlier. The sign was placed only a few feet back from my property line, directly facing the forest of smaller signs in my own yard. I'm pleased to report that my Amy Wicks sign is still intact--as are the others.
Though I was a bit startled to suddenly find a large Godfrey sign so close to my property, I wasn't at all surprised. Like so many of the other houses currently displaying Godfrey campaign signs, this house is a rental. The most recent tenants, who stayed less than a year, had just moved out. They came back for the last of their belongings on Sunday, and confirmed that they had nothing to do with the sign going up.
It seems that the Godfrey campaign has received permission from a number of local realtors and property managers to place signs on their rental properties. Because many rental properties are located on high-traffic roads, this arrangement puts lots of Godfrey signs where people see them. It also amplifies Godfrey's perceived popularity, since a single property manager, who votes only once (at most), can proclaim his support of Godfrey from many locations. As the primary election has just demonstrated, Godfrey's overall support among voters falls far short of his support among property managers.
The interesting question, of course, is why Ogden's realtors and property managers are supporting Mayor Godfrey. Besides the placement of lawn signs, the local realtors association has supported Godfrey with a $5000 campaign contribution. Godfrey's level of support among realtors is far too high to attribute entirely to personal connections, or to a belief that he will reward those who support him, or to their just generally thinking he's a good mayor. It must be because they believe his policies are good for the real estate and rental business.
Unfortunately, what's good for the real estate and rental business isn't very good for the community as a whole. Realtors profit from high turnover rates--not from stable neighborhoods. They also profit from speculation, which drives prices artificially high (at least temporarily). Real estate speculators purchase owner-occupied houses and turn them into rentals while they hope for the market to rise. As the number of rental houses increases, the character of a neighborhood changes.
When I purchased my home in 1998 there was only one rental house on the whole block (Binford Street between Polk and Taylor). Since then the houses on both sides of mine have been converted to rentals, as has the next house to the east. The owners of all three of these houses live outside Utah. Although the renters have all been nice people (at least to me), their behavior doesn't always fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. Some keep odd hours and wake me in the middle of the night. Some can be heard screaming at each other on a regular basis. One backed into another neighbor's parked car the other day (and has no insurance). Another has a bumper sticker that you wouldn't want your kids to see as they walk to the elementary school, half a block away.
The yard with the Godfrey sign used to be the best-kept on the block. Now it's the worst. The perennial gardens have been mowed down, and weeds grow in their place. The house has fallen into disrepair and much of it needs a new paint job.
Although I don't have the statistics to prove it, it sure seems like the number of rental houses in my neighborhood has been increasing lately. "For rent" signs are sprouting up all along the east bench, where they used to be quite rare. Last spring I started photographing these signs, to document the transformation of my neighborhood. All of the photos shown here were taken above Harrison, between 21st Street and WSU.
It's tempting to blame Mayor Godfrey for the proliferation of "for rent" signs and the general increase in real estate speculation in my neighborhood--but that would be too simplistic. There are much larger forces at work here: the West's booming population and real estate market; the international focus on northern Utah during the 2002 Olympics; and the imminent arrival of the FrontRunner commuter train (which Godfrey supported, though it almost certainly would have happened without him). Given these conditions, an increase in real estate speculation was inevitable. But Godfrey has fanned the flames by touting Ogden as the "high adventure capital" of the West (or is it the world?), and by promising tremendous wealth to be gained by all when his mythical gondola is built. Last March, Bill Spain of Provident Partners (Scottsdale, AZ) told the City Council that the potential gondola was a key element in attracting real estate speculators to Ogden.
Meanwhile, most of us Ogden citizens would like to get on with our lives. We buy houses to live in them--not to get rich quick on a wave of real estate speculation. We want neighbors who stay more than a year, take care of their homes, and carry auto insurance. We want streets where children can play safely. And although we might not agree with the messages on all of our neighbors' yard signs, we'd prefer that they represent the views of the neighbors themselves.
50 comments:
Nine homes for rent on the eeast bench. There end is near.
realtoree:
If you're interested in discussing the points Dan raises, rather than just sneering at them in a hastily ill-typed screed, why not raise questions that have verifiable answers?
For example [and I don't know the answer to this]: is there some way to get the number of single-family home rental properties in an area of Ogden over time? Say five years ago, two years ago and now? If so, we'd have some verifiable numbers showing whether the nature of some of Ogden's long-established neighborhoods has been changing recently, as Dan suggested, and if so, how they are changing.
If you are in the business, you might know where such numbers are reported or can be found. But I notice you seem not interested in discussing Dan's points. Just in sneering at them, without any evidence to back up your derision.
Dan:
GTrain Wilkerson is not impressed with your post. She will give up her association presidency to loudly cheer the gentrification and rentalization of the east bench, due to visionaries like Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey. You can be a hero or a zero. She encourages you to climb aboard the GTrain. Also, I wonder if the members of Wayne Peterson's famed Squirrel Patrol would prefer that Provident purchase and lease the homes next-door to theirs?
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
I'm not at all impressed by Provident. They've taken no less than seven single family homes within two blocks of my home and turned them into rentals. No yard maintenence, no home maintenence. Not impressive at all.
We rent below Monroe, and have always ketp the yard and home neat and cared for. Our lanlord does nothing to take care of his property, nor does he pay us for the work we do on his home. I pay $650.00 a month and would love to move but these people are asking way to much for the rent. Those of us that are handicapped are stuck here in the gettos of inner city Ogden where things fall apart on a daily basis. If the little man wins again, I'm out of here.
A friend in the mortgage business explained what Provident is doing and has done in other states.
A pool of Provident investors buy all of the available property in a given area, sometimes at an inflated rate, driving the price of homes skyward. They rent/lease the properties for a few years, while doing little or no maintenance, then sell a few amongst themselves at even more inflated prices, which drives all of their property values up. Then they cash out everything and move like parasites to the next unsuspecting neighborhood.
A risky speculation strategy that, in my opinion, is ruining many O-Town neighborhoods.
I myself just put an offer in on a house around the corner from Dan S. last week. The home owners had an offer from an investor the first day they planted a sign in the yard. The investor intended to use it as a rental. The homeowners were happy to sell it to me a day later, knowing a family would own/occupy the house and care for it as well as they had.
It's somewhat in the neighborhood I previously lived. We've always wanted to return, but had to pay a premium–around 30% more than what the property would have gone for just a couple of years ago. I guess some would say skyrocketing home values are a good sign. I guess that depends on which side of the transaction you are, and if you believe the market will sustain the inflated values.
Speaking of which, anyone looking for a nice home above Weber State. I'm selling and going back to my 'hood.
It's interesting, Dan, that you don't mention that ALL OF OGDEN is now in an upward spiral. Zillow.com lists an increase from 157k to 180k for the entire town since Sept '06.
It is amazing that there are actually people who think that normalized property values are a bad thing. But it's typical of you people constantly trying to twist something into what it's not.
Is property speculation something new? Of course not, it's just new to Ogden- thing is, Ogden's been 'for sale' for over a hundred years, but since the 70's nobody's been buying.
You folks actually have some aversion to reviving Ogden. You claim not- 'it's just that it isn't being done properly' but the truth is, no matter what is done, you folks have some problem with it.
But hey, seriously, I've checked with NASA- the sky isn't falling, the Mayor's just a guy trying to revive the town. Could it be that he's not the anitchrist? Could it?
"6.1.2. Signs. It is prohibited for any licensee (broker or sales agent)to have a sign on real property without the written consent of the property owner."
Rule R162-6. Utah Real Estate Licensee Conduct
Of course you are correct, Mr. Geiger, fine sir. Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey is not the antichrist; he's the political Harrisville reincarnation of Lord LittleBrook. Although, his belief in the miracle financial and community-revitalization powers of gondolas! seems otherworldy. Have a good day and sell many jackets!
Yours,
An idiot
Jason I love your comments because they come from the heart and are so true please continue the good fight and remember, we the little people make a difference.
Anon:
You folks really need to find a new song to sing. "Naysayer" is getting really old.
Anon, opposing the Mayor's vision of Ogden's future growth [with gondolos flitting above the streets hither and yon] does not mean those doing the opposing favor no growth. What we have competing here are different visions of how Ogden can, and should, grow, with different outcomes for the city's residents. What we do not have here is a contest between "growth" and "no growth." We do have a contest, in my view [though I suspect you will disagree and begin chanting "naysayers!" again] between ill-advised, badly planned and un-sustainable growth on the one hand, and smart-growth on the other.
Thanks for the education Dan.
There are at least two serious and expensive side effects of this real estate speculation frenzy that has hit Ogden so hard.
First is that it creates a somewhat false rise in property values which of course gets the political hacks in all local taxing authorities sharpening their pencils and raising our property taxes through the roof. Something that all Utah property owners are currently suffering from.
The problem is that it is a false increase in value in that all markets, including an artificially inflated one, is subject to the law of supply and demand. As the property tax becomes intolerable, and the speculators acquire more properties, more houses will come on the market as people are taxed out of their homes, the supply will increase and the prices will fall. This hits especially hard in stable areas where there is a larger number of older home owners on fixed incomes. Meanwhile the speculators will take their profits and the other home owners that are being victimized will then be trying to sell into a down market.
So what happens is the Real Estate agents, the speculators and the tax man all cut a fat hog in the ass and the average Joe home owner gets screwed. This is why the above mentioned scum are for the most part all on board with the Little Lord and his slight of hand tricks.
The other element is that Ogden has created so many RDA projects (all now subordinated to the Rec Center and Mall) that it has created a serious income shortage for the taxing entities that are now making up for it with the huge increases in property taxes that is so destructive to all homeowners in Weber County - not just in Ogden.
Then to add insult to injury the dirty bastards have the unmitigated gall to tell the stable home owners they ought to be grateful that their home values are going up!
Dan,
Thanx for a most erudite post.
Ours was a stable neighborhood....one rental....and kept up. Now we have at last 5 that are being neglected. One owner is in Japan!
The tenor of the neighborhood has changed. Most of these homes were built in the 50's and early 60's and the owners lived in them til retirement or death.
Now we have loud, unruly kids skateboarding at all hours of the nite, and one family was so loud that cops were called!
It ain't the same. A pity.
Anonymous...how come Rudi allows you to post without a moniker? You are spewing the same old drivel we've heard from all the Godfreyites: "Negative!...Don't want progress, etc etc".
Hogwash...reread Dan's post. We are lamenting the downward and ugly spiral in our neighborhoods. This is being caused by what I call "carpet bagger speculators". They are not investing in our town to upgrade and see progress. Their progress is a hefty bundle in their wallets.
About a year ago Ogden homes were 5% overvalued (5% higher then Ogden wealth/income/employment levels could afford). Today, they're about 17% overvalued. The extra money (investors) coming from outside the area are raising the prices of the homes, but not the wealth/income/employment levels of the current residents.
Housing Valuation Analysis
southsider,
Thanks for the fascinating link. That web site really shows how most of what's happening with real estate in Weber County is part of a much larger trend that has affected urban areas throughout the West. On the other hand, the data on that site are at the level of entire metropolitan areas--not individual cities or neighborhoods. Still, these data provide a very useful context and perspective for my local, anecdotal information.
Dan, Your words,
"As the number of rental houses increases, the character of a neighborhood changes.
"Although the renters have all been nice people (at least to me), their behavior doesn't always fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. Some keep odd hours and wake me in the middle of the night. Some can be heard screaming at each other on a regular basis. One backed into another neighbor's parked car the other day (and has no insurance). Another has a bumper sticker that you wouldn't want your kids to see as they walk to the elementary school, half a block away."
Your words, now I want to know why you think it's OK to allow accessory housing between 36th and WCU? Someone can buy a house and let his/her kid or nephew live in it and rent the other side or what ever out and it would still be allowed with this accessory housing zoning.
Also if you believe in the rail system thru Ogden why wouldn't the desirability of the homes on Harrison between 30th and 32nd increase? Why turn them into townhomes that will ruin the view to the west for the residents that live behind them, rob them of their back yard privacy as townhome residents watch them in their back yards and why should they suffer the decrease in value of their homes now that they are abuted to townhomes and a noisey alley in their back yard?
Think about it!
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Hi. I have been out of touch, but I have to say the shenanigans of Bobby G in regards to placement of G-G-G-Godfrey election signs is a little over the top. Especially, when he is placing them in vacant yards (read, renter just moved out in Dan's post).
Where do I call to get someone to put signs in my yard? I would like a large Suzie V sign or two, and Amy Wicks, too. (I have recently moved, and have a much bigger yard than before).
And if someone puts the G-G-G-Godfrey sign in my yard, I will just paint the red circle & slash symbol across it and leave it there. If you put it in my yard, isn't it mine after that?
I love this blog. I love this town. I recently met someone who used to consistently beat Little Matty in races at track meets in high school. (He was short then, by the way).
I will sign myself, as usual, The lovely Jennifer (some of you actually even know who I am, some will get to --- maybe)
Dan,
Thanks for the most excellent post. To me, neighborhood development should be a key area of focus for whoever gets elected. However; I don't think all neighborhoods in Ogden are in decline due to this recent trend. Most neighborhoods west of Harrison have actually improved over the past few years. Owner occupancy in that area has increased (although I have no hard data on that), from everything I have seen and experienced. It is a shame the good neighborhoods east of Harrison have suffered negatively because of this. Godfrey, his close associate Sue Wilkerson, and a handful of others in my opinion are to blame for this as they have encouraged this type of gawd awful behavior. Godfrey does need to be complimented on a couple HUD programs, though, that have increased home-ownership in East Central Ogden and other targeted areas. Own-in-Ogden and Home Sweet Home have positively, in a small way, increased homeownership in those areas and helped stabilize those neighborhoods. Why Godfrey touts the fact that people are speculating in Ogden and that that is a good thing, I don't understand. I think it has to do with his lack of overall vision for the community as to what it is we really need. Just because somebody is spending money in Ogden doesn't mean its for the better. A lot of elements make up a City (in addition to business/economic development), the City/Mayor needs to realize this and start planning and making decisions accordingly.
glamour:
Well said.
On Gangs:
Since gang crime and gang suppression have emerged as important issues in Ogden [and in the mayor's race], this FYI.
It's a long piece in today's NY Times looking at how the get-tough-on-gangs policies adopted by major cities like NY and LA are working out --- the same kinds of policies Ogden just adopted as gang-control measures, and that many other cities are now adopting.
The gist of the article seems to be that the new get-tough-on-gangs laws [e.g. the laws making it illegal for more than two gang members to congregate in a public place with intent etc.] are popular with cities that are just beginning to deal with serious gang problems, but are a lot less popular with major cities that implemented these policies long ago, and which are, like Los Angeles, backing off some elements of them. In LA and other similar places crime control authorities are reaching the conclusions that the get-tough ordinances (a) didn't work as it was hoped they would and (b) may have made the problem worse by being so broadly applied, many young people were swept up in the police sweeps and branded wrongly as gang members, some jailed, and who ended up as the hard core gang members they had not been until caught in a police sweep.
LA, NY and other places seem to have reached the conclusion that some elements of the get-tough-on-gangs ordinances are worth keeping, but others went too far, backfired, need to be removed and that community policing, intervention programs, and rehab programs for those caught up [with removal from gang-watch lists in return for keeping their noses clean] seems to work better.
Before anyone jumps down my throat: I have no answer to the gang problem. This is posted because I found the long article informative, downright chewy, and possibly relevant to Ogden's recently adopted policies. My hope is it will inform the discussion about gang crime in Ogden and how to control it that I think is certain to pop up again during, and after, the campaign. That's all. I don't know that LA/NY have found the answer in their revisions of the get-tough ordinances.
But they've had experience with those ordinances for years now, and I think it might be wise to look at their experience and see, maybe, if any of that experience can be profitably applied to Ogden.
formerly anonymous:
The key difference is home ownership vs. absentee landlords. The three rental houses near me are owned by absentee landlords and managed by local realtors who rarely (if ever) drop by to check on the tenants. A house with an ADU is owner-occupied, so the owner is present to monitor noise levels, driving habits, and obscene bumper stickers. By the way, I wouldn't object to allowing ADU's throughout the east bench, including my block--but if a small-scale trial is all the community is ready for, then it makes sense to start near WSU.
You're right that if the houses along the east side of Harrison between 30th and 32nd are replaced by a row of townhouses, with vehicle access by an alley behind, there will be impacts to the adjacent properties along the west side of Iowa Avenue. There are many things that can be done to minimize these impacts. The townhouses wouldn't necessarily be any taller than what's already permitted there under the current zoning, and would probably be shorter than many of the trees that are on those lots. The alley wouldn't be a high-traffic area, since it would be too narrow for convenient use by thru traffic.
I don't know what the streetcar would do to the value of the existing homes along Harrison. Normally when a rail line goes in, property values increase. But single-family homes on a busy thoroughfare like Harrison are an anomaly to begin with and may not follow the trend. I doubt that the rail line would be enough to motivate new owners to buy these homes and live in them rather than rent them out. On the other hand, without higher-density development along these blocks, it may be difficult to justify having a rail stop anywhere nearby.
If I lived on the west side of Iowa, and townhouses with an alley adjacent to my back yard were proposed, I'd want to attend all the Planning Commission hearings to make sure that the design was adjusted in various ways to minimize the impacts to my property. I might install a new fence and/or landscaping for additional privacy. But I wouldn't oppose the project, because I would also benefit from the amenities that the townhomes would attract: the increased likelihood of a rail stop and perhaps a new coffee shop or some other pedestrian-friendly business that I would patronize.
Glamour, I attended the impromptu neighborhood meeting at the Red Cross building Mon. night.
The residents stated quite clearly that 9 of their good neighbors have moved this year. Crime and violence is just too much.
This is not something that is brand new to these neighborhoods, it's been stesdily increasing ever since lying little matty took over.
Ther are guns going off in Ogden almost every night of the week.
At that meeting, Neil Hansen had a large map of Ogden that he displayed. On it were dots, 132 of them. These are drive-by and shots fired calls to the OPD, since January 07. 132 and the list was just thru July.
Now due to silly legislation, if a bullet does not hit a human, lying little matty and griener do not have to count it as a violent crime. Tell the folks in that neighborhood that godfrey has reduced crime.
He can bond us into eternity, build all the new stuff he wants, but with bullets flying all over the city, things will fail.
Which leads us to the obvious conclusion that lying little matty has been a complete failure as a mayor. If you can't drink the water, flush your toilet and leave your house after dark, who cares about wind tunnels, glow in the dark mini putt and neon bowling.
As a post script, does larry miller realize that his new theatre marque is proudly displaying the most significant gang symbol of 2 of Ogden's most violent gangs, right on top? 13.
Bill c.
thank you for the item about bullets flying but not hitting anyone counting. I agree. Anyone shooting at something (or someone) usually intends to kill or seriously hurt, and in the city the object of the kill is usually NOT meant to fill one's freezer.
So it MUST equal violent crime. And the people living nearby are just as frightened, regardless of whether bullets hit their mark or not.
These people are residents of Ogden, and I hope they are registered voters who will turn up at the polls in November.
Lovely Jenifer, I have Amy signs, if you'd like one let Rudi know.
glamour boy:
Thanks for your post. I know that some residential neighborhoods west of Harrison have improved a lot since Godfrey became mayor. I don't know whether the area west of Harrison has improved overall, nor do I know how much credit should go to Godfrey for the improvements. The Own-in-Ogden program existed long before Godfrey. The Weed-and-Seed grant, which may or may not have predated Godfrey, has not been renewed as the city hoped. Godfrey certainly knows that if downtown is going to thrive, the area immediately east of downtown needs to be a reasonably attractive place to live. He has clearly put some energy (I don't know how much) into trying to improve that area, with mixed success.
Although there's no silver-bullet solution for improving a large area like this, the biggest single step I can think of would be to install a streetcar going up 25th or 26th. This would attract private investment and bring great improvements to everything within a couple blocks of a station. Beyond that distance I suspect the problems would continue.
Dear Neil, I know of two that did not make it in the primary, guess what they both kicked it in the finale. I truly believe you have a chance on a write in, but you need to make that choice, 12 hours a day door to door, are you willing.
Please get up and make that difference, enough said, you are in control.
I can't figure out how you think the idea of a street car going up 25th or 26th is going to improve the neighborhood. The two areas with the biggest improvement in EC are the Jefferson and Eccles historic districts and surrounding blocks. How does putting trax through the middle of both help expand that success? Do you want a trax train in front of your house?
die hard,
Look at any of the newer streetcar installations around the country and you'll see how they've attracted a great deal of private investment--not just right on the street with the streetcar but everywhere within walking distance--two or three blocks. In Ogden's case, that would take in a whole lot more than the Jefferson and Eccles historic districts.
For example, look at the corner of 26th and Monroe, where all of the current businesses are auto-oriented (parking lots in front) and only one storey tall. Away from the corner you have some apartments and some single-family homes, all in lousy shape. Now put a streetcar station here, which would bring 5000 pedestrians through each day. In all likelihood someone will buy the laundromat and the fast food place and replace these with taller buildings that come out to the sidewalk, with retail on the ground floor and offices or apartments above (like on 25th Street). The nearby apartments would increase in value and hopefully be renovated. The nearby single-family homes would either be renovated or would be replaced with more mixed-use buildings to enhance the pedestrian-oriented atmosphere. And this new investment would occur not just at the intersection but everywhere within about a two-block radius.
A streetcar is not a train. It's about the size of a bus (possibly a large articulated bus), and makes no more noise than a bus. It would fit right in with the east-central neighborhood and in fact, there were streetcars in that neighborhood when most of the houses were originally built.
Bill C:
Neil Hansen was there with a map of recent shooting events in Ogden? Gee, I don't recall reading about that. And it certainly wasn't part of KSL's news coverage that night of the event.
Imagine that....
The blocks immediately West of the Jefferson re-do area between 25th and 26th are complete slums. The closest one is Porter, it is a dead end street and is strictly bad news by any standard. Multiple crimes committed day and night, multiple calls to the cops by the besieged people that live there, and nary a cop will ever show up. You can bet your sweet ass that none of it ever makes it into the Mayor's crime statistics.
I know this is off the subject but has anyone watched Channel 17 lately?
What a waste of tax payer money.
I can almost recite verbatim the entire dialog about the History of Yellowstone, the story about Antelope Island and the revisit by veterans to the South Pacific.
It's like listening to a screaming child.
Please just shut it down and save the resident's money.
enough already:
I have [and some others have] been lobbying Council members for two years now on the same point: make it a real community channel of some value to the citizenry, or shut it down.
Making it a channel with some value would involve (a)ceasing its being the mayor's personal play thing [whoever the mayor is]. Remember when 17 was "all Geigers, all Gondolas, all the time?" And it would involve (b)using the channel to make available, via tape delay would be fine, City Council meetings and school board meetings. That, at a minimum, would make it a station providing rate payers some bang for their buck.
It could be much more than that, but that would be a minimum, seems to me. Ogden, sadly, lives in the electronic news shadow of the SL TV stations. There is no Ogden TV news show. It would be good if one could be aired on the city channel, but the logistics and legalities of that might make such truly impossible. To have any credibility, the show would have to be produced by an independent news source. The SE could produce a daily 30 minute news show, I imagine, but I doubt it could air on a community channel, and I'm not at all sure how it would be financed. A pipe dream, that one I think.
Hell, people a lot more knowledgeable than I am about community channels could certainly come up with other ideas that would work here as well. But what we have now is, you are right, a monumental waste of city money and cable subscribers' fees. [My understand is both sources fund the channel.]
Well Curm, it's true. Big map and also a photo of Police cars in storage in a building at BDO.
Bought and paid for with your tax dollars, sitting collecting dust.
I think a better use would be,(if we're unable to man them) parking them in front of known gang and or drug houses. An empty cop car can be a deterent, if passers by just see it from a short distance away. I doubt many would brave approaching the house to score, with a cop car out front.
Speaking of novel ideas, why not greatly reduce the traffic patrol and re-assign those officers to crime control, maybe loan them to the gang unit. Change their hours so that we have a maximum presence, where and when these crimes are most likely to occur.
The most disengenuous part of the mayors spiel to the people that night was all the good things he's going to do for them, in November. Many of the folks saw thru that BS, 7+ years, we can surely wait till November.
I won't go into much detail of how stupid and ridiculous, not to mention inept, royal eccles and kent peterson appeared, talking to a crowd about some thing they had no grasp of, let alone genuine lack of concern.
These two ought to just come clean with the public and disclose that all they really give a damn about is lying little matty's sky ride at any cost.
Bill:
Were all candidates given a chance at the mike, or just Eccles and Peterson? If just those two, then it was not a city event [which is how the SE and the SL news channel covered it]. Then it was a campaign event in aid of the Mayor's, Eccles and Peterson's candidacies. Funny, but I don't seem to recall that being reported in the prints or on the TV coverage either. Or was it an open mike for all candidates or others to speak?
enough already:
I have [and some others have] been lobbying Council members for two years now on the same point: make it a real community channel of some value to the citizenry, or shut it down.
Boy oh boy, I'm so glad that SUSIE has done somthing on the council since she has been in like shut down the channel 17.
Right Jil!
You have said that Susie is so great. So lets see sponsor some legislation to shut it down and shut Godfrey down or is this to political.
Lets really see her in action if she is a person of action. At least Hansen put up.
Well Mr. Curm, it started out as if it was intended to go that way, but, lying little matty took up quite a bit of time, which as the responsible party was expected. What he said, I'll leave for the neighborhood to judge for themselves his sincerity, or lack of.
Then they just went around the room, according to how they were seated. Some of the candidates were late and therefore not acknowleged.
I'm not sure of the order, but Neil,Jessie,eccles,Sexton and peterson all spoke, then the meeting kind of unraveled for a while. Susan,Sheila and Amy approached and were finally given their say but the meeting had somewhat changed quite a bit by then.
It was a hasty time constrained meeting, the format wasn't really laid out clearly to be followed, and really wasn't. There were great emotional expressions,rage, campaining,pointed questions and some fillibustering. All in all, worth the effort to attend on such short notice.(I got my phone message 1/2 hour before it started.
I hope before the election we get a chance to have an unlimited by time, opportunity to try it again. More than one.
To "make things happen",
We all know who's play thing (propaganda machine) Channel 17 is.
Susie may do just what you suggest when she is the new mayor or she may turn it around and make it something that benefits the residents.
Our current mayor's programing of the channel is as recycled as his rhetoic about how he has benefited the city.
Only diffence is that at least the current programs on the channel are true.
enough already...of jil,
But Susie has been on the council for a year now, and has all this experience, so can you please tell what she has done for me to make me vote for her.
Please be specific.
Make things happen:
No one council member can make things happen. And the means of doing that in Channel 17's case would be to shift its budget out of the Mayor's office [where it now is I believe] and onto another budget. No one Council member can do that.
Budget negotiations are complex. They involve a lot of horse trading, and I don't know the kind of horse trading that went on in the last budget round. But without four votes, nothing moves on or off the budget for any particular part of the city government.
Keep plugging away at the members and candidates. If I get to question any of them, I intend to ask what can be done about Channel 17, and what, if they get on the Council, do they intend to do. Perhaps getting a public commitment before the next Council is seated from a majority will work.
But charging one member of the Council for not single-handedly fixing the Channel 17 problem in her first months on the Council [when the budget came up] seems a little over the top to me.
Charging ahead with motions and demands for new ordinances and budget changes without sufficient support in advance to make the changes at least capable of being adopted [at least three votes on your side and at least one undecided going in] simply wastes Council time and cuts influence of the Council member who does it often.
But start asking them. In public, in private, whenever you get the chance. Sometimes it takes several years of lobbying before a working majority for an idea can be built.
Make things happen:
You wrote above of Councilwoman Van Hooser: Lets really see her in action if she is a person of action. At least Hansen put up.
I get the sense that you're still smarting from Hansen's loss in the primary. He was my candidate too. I worked for his election. But the primary is now over, the voters have made their decision. They did not, this time, choose my candidate. Time to move on.
I'm sure Rep. Hansen is disappointed at the results too, probably a great deal more than you are. But he has more campaigns to run in his career, perhaps many more. When a primary election is over, if you've lost, you pick your self up, dust yourself off, and get back into the game. From what I've seen of Rep. Hansen, that's what I expect he will do. [Hell, being a Democrat in the Utah legislature, you have to learn how to deal with defeat, how to take a deep breath and then wade back in. Over and over again, picking off a win where you can, when you can. It's what Democrats do in Utah. It's why, in part, I'm one of them.]
Rep. Hansen thought it was not in Ogden's best interest for Mayor Godfrey to serve a third term. He was right about that. And sixty percent of the voters agreed. I expect Rep. Hansen will fairly soon do what is best for Ogden --- and I think many of his supporters probably expect this of him --- and endorse Ms. Van Hooser for Mayor. Because now, at this point, post primary, that's what's best for his constituents. If I didn't think he was the kind of Democrat who put his constituents first, I wouldn't have worked for his election.
Happily, doing what's best for his constituents now would also be the right thing to do for Rep. Hansen who I think... I hope... has more races to run in his future.
Curm
If Hansen is going to run more races in the future, and have more than a snow ball's chance in hell of winning anything other than his inner city house post, he is going to have to get a lot more organized and professional than he was in this one. He is going to have to surround himself with a lot smarter people than he did this time. I'm surprised to hear that you worked on his campaign. What happened, didn't he listen to you? I don't know who he was working with or who ran his campaign but he sure ought to be looking for a new team before he puts himself out in front of the voters again. From my observations of this campaign they were strictly amateur night in Dixie. I didn't see him give us one single good reason to vote for him rather than VanHoosen or the Mayor or even the old hippie guy for that matter. I was looking for a reason to vote for him, he didn't give me one, so I didn't. Apparently I wasn't alone on this. If this is the way democrats do it in Ogden, it is no wonder why the party is so irrelevant here. If the Demo's had performed this poorly in SLC the rich well financed Republican in the bicycle outfit would be looking at the Mayor office there instead of licking his wounds in Hawaii. If anyone is going to beat Mayor Godfrey they are going to have to give us a darn good reason to vote for them instead of him.
Geno:
Corruption isn’t a good enough reason to vote against Godfrey? Don’t forget Godfrey appointed Susie to the Council. Good Luck you asked for it!
Susie was put in by the city council.
You think that Hansen ran a two bit campaign, then he should think about a write in campaign then we sill see how all the other candidates scramble for votes.
It is interesting how he was so insignificant in the primary, but now both camps need his endorsement to win, I would say he is handling some pretty big cards in his hand right now. I think this election will be won or lost depending on who hansen now supports. so don't tell me that he was lousy, because he has a base that will follow him any where.
Godfrey said he lived below Harrison before, so why did he forget those people when he won, and move to snob ville and Susie doesn't care about the inter city with her snobbish way of shadow valley. If either one of them really care, then sell your house come live among those people and get a real feel for what their lives are like from day to day.
remember these votes are just important as any other in the city, so what will the candidates do them. no promises, no votes, it is that easy. and I think that Hansen will be asking this of both candidates, if they expect his endorsement.
Geno:
I worked for his election. I did not run his campaign. And I agree, it was not a well-run campaign. But I also notice, from this morning's SE story, that he carried his lege district. Let me put that another way: the people who knew him best, voted for him. [Just as Ogden voted against Sen. Greiner. He was saved only by virtue of a gerrymandered district which put enough out-of-city Republic votes to the south in his column to overcome his loss in Ogden. Or, put another way, the people who knew Greiner best said "no."]
But I agree, Hanson's campaign was not effective, clearly. Some weeks ago, it became evident he was not going to carry the precincts east of Harrison, at which point it was should also have been evident that he had to turn his people, in mid-city, out. In large numbers. Most elections in the end --- a few exceptions, but most of them in the end --- are about turnout. Hansen needed enough of an edge in the mid-city precincts to overcome votes going the other way elsewhere. He didn't get them. He took mid-city but not by the margin he needed there. I don't know what kind of GOTV [get out the vote] campaign he had working mid-city, or if he had one working there at all.
However, this is all Monday morning quarterbacking. Fun on a rainy day when there's nothing else to do, maybe. But not now. There's an election coming on. There's a point to doing election postmortems, in order to improve the next campaign. That time will be early next year, once the coming elections are over.
Right now, there's still work to be done.
Ah, Just Watch, you're funny. Thanks for bringing an early morning smile to this old warhorse.... Painfully obvious, but funny.
Write-in campaigns don't work, and you know it. Particularly for a candidate who came in third in the popular vote in a primary. What you're trying to do is divide the anti-Godfrey vote in the November election as it was divided in the primary. Nice try.
You wrote: I would say he is handling some pretty big cards in his hand right now. I think this election will be won or lost depending on who Hansen now supports... because he has a base that will follow him any where.
Some posts earlier, someone suggested that all Hansen's votes were anti-Godfrey votes and so all would go to Van Hooser. I replied that while many of Hansen's votes were anti-Godfrey votes, not all of them were. Some were clearly pro-Hansen votes. But you are just as wrong to say that Hansen can "deliver" all or even most of his votes, that his constituents will docilely do as he tells them in November. That is doubtful. His constituent majority consists of Democrats. We don't herd well and we're difficult to deliver en mass to anybody purely on one office-holder's say-so. [Ask Mayor candidate Christiansen in Salt Lake City about that. He got quite an education on exactly that point on Tuesday.]
But Hansen's endorsement does matter, to whoever gets it and to him. A Hansen endorsement of Godfrey will clearly help Godfrey... and it would be very damaging to Hansen in the long run. It would make his considerable criticisms [all of them valid] of Godfrey during his race for Mayor seem to have been merely self-serving campaign-only stances and that perception by the voting public I would not want coming back to haunt me if I anticipated a continuing career in public office. I don't think Hansen will endorse Godfrey, however happy that would make you, Just Watch. That would be a political gaffe of very large proportions. For Hansen.
We shall see.
I'm sad that Hansen lost, he was my guy too. My Neil Hansen sign was the first political sign I've ever planted in my yard. (It seemed like searching for a needle in a haystack to find a contact to get me the sign, but I digress.. Neil just isn't quite Pete Ashdown when it comes to online campaigning. -grin-)
In a way though, I suppose it's for the best.. we need all the clear voices we can get in the legislature to yell desperately over the insanity. I'm happy as long as Hansen represents me in whatever role or capacity he can get.
-me
Drew - The stars were aligned just right this election season and it was Hansen's to lose and sure enough he did. It was not just his online campaign that was found wanting, he and his inner team failed in every way possible. They evidently thought their former tried and true methods of winning the inner city democrat leaning legislative district would work city wide. Huge mistake that they have made in two successive mayoral primaries now. In politics, like in life, if you do not learn from your mistakes and you keep repeating them you keep losing.
One of my husband's employees told him a story the other day: This kid's father rents a house in Ogden. A week or so ago, he received a letter saying his landlord would like him to place a Godfrey sign in his front yard. The guy called his landlord, who knew nothing about the letter and never told anyone he wanted a Godfrey sign on his property. Hmmmm ...
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