I'll be out for most of this morning, so I probably won't be able to post anything topical until later on today. I haven't set up an open thread for a while, so I suppose now's time to do it once again.
WCF regulars already know the drill; but for newcomers: this is the place to bring up and discuss whatever you have on your mind.
Before I turn this place over to you folks for a while, however, here's an Associated Press article* that's simply too weird to be ignored.
*Via Standard-Examiner (Formerly OGDEN Standard-Examiner)
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37 comments:
The Standard-Examiner published my letter to the editor about Rob Bishop's vote for CAFTA,
Bishop turns his back on constituents again
Tuesday, August 2, 2005
Congressman Rob Bishop has turned his back on Top Of Utah citizens yet again. Last week he was against the Central America Free Trade Agreement. Then House Republican leader Tom DeLay needed one last vote and Bishop flip-flopped, voting to bring Third World prices and wages to Utah's family farms and manufacturers.
This isn't the first time. Last year, citizens asked Congress to limit the worst abuses of the so-called Patriot Act. We won the vote and Bishop was with us, but then DeLay held the 15-minute vote open for 40 minutes and pressured weak-kneed congressmen to switch their votes. Bishop flip-flopped, and we lost by one vote.
What good is a congressman we can't rely on, even when he promises to support us?
Brian Watkins
My blog
Ok, so this is a weird comment to leave, so just bear with me on this one. In my last comment I mentioned the Ogden City Cemetery, which I think is an awesome place, with so many neat old headstones and what not. I remember reading somewhere that there are a total of 48,000 grave spaces in the cemetery, but I'm reading here on Ogden's website and it says that there are over 45,000 people buried in the cemetery. So my question is this; does anyone know anything about how long it might be until the cemetery is sold out of plots? Just a few months ago there was an article in the Deseret News that said that the Salt Lake City Cemetery estimates that it will sell out of plots about thirteen years from now. Can anyone remember reading any newspaper articles about how long the Ogden City Cemetery will last? I just thought that someone might be able to give me some information on this.
That was a great letter, Brian. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
To anyone familiar with Rob Bishops Utah political career, it comes as no surprise at all that he would forget his political promises, and adhere to party leadership discipline whenever the chips are down.
He was a tyrannical party disciplinarian in his days as state house speaker and state republican party chair. Now that the tables are turned, and he's low man on the totem pole, he knows how to play the party machine game. Rob will always do what a party boss like Tom Delay tells him to do.
He's typical of the chameleon style legislator that Utahns always send to Congress.
He talks a good game of independence and principle when he's here in Utah, wooing us for our votes every every couple of years. But when he gets back to Washington, he's just another mindless cog in the neocon machine.
The trouble is that he believes Utah voters are like sheep who'll continue to send him back to congress no matter how many political promises he breaks.
The other trouble is that he's probably right about that.
Thanks, Brian.
For those who may have forgotten the details of Rep. Bishop's 2004 Patriot Act flip-flop, you can refresh your memory here.
(Note: This is a google-cached version. the Original Salt Lake Tribune article has been deleted.)
Some heavyweight posts, here, and once again, I'm going to buck the trend. I see that "president" is back. Although I pretty much disagree with what he posts, I find that I'm now agreeing in the way in which he posts. He's calmed down; he's a little more rational; he somewhat inspires dialogue instead of a verbal boxing match; and he provokes some thought with his premise.
Keep it up president. Stay civil and you'll get civil response. The idea here is to debate issues and thought, not to call each other ignoramouses and try to be the crudest guy on the blog.
I recant the welcome wagon as per this president guy. Again, in another thread, he's up to his old tricks of insults instead of substance.
Won't be long before all we get is mud-slinging. You can't make a leopard change his spots!
Let's focus a little less on Mr. President, the person, and start dealing with his arguments.
He's made his amends and seems intellectually capable to argue his side of any issue, at least.
Bygones should be bygones on Weber County Forum.
I set up this forum so the smart people from all sides of every issue could debate freely. it seems to me that Mr. President will just fine here.
Have at it folks.
Please debate substance and not personalities.
As Elvis used to say: 'Thank you very much."
OGDEN'S SITUATION AN ILLUSION?
Some think Ogden is on the right path headed for stardom others simply think the city leaders are taking the city to hell in a hand basket. We (Americans) think a gallon of gas is high at 2.29. In Australia 6 Bucks is a bargain for a gallon. High is an illusion.
Indeed, in the world around us, some illusions are so powerful we often accept them without doubt or suspicion.
Even what we see with our own eyes are unreliable. Wide open and sharply focused, they tell us that cross-hatched lines are converging. But with some distance and a good squint, you can see how those same lines mask perfect parallels.
What you hear from the nay-sayers and city leaders alike can be equally deceptive. With conviction and authority, they tell you Ogden is ruining itself on a path of destructive developments, and overburden financial obligations and debt.
Nothing could be further from the truth! With some distance and a healthy dose of skepticism one will see the wonderful work in progress that is our downtown. Things have changed for the better. I defy anyone to tell me that Ogden is not better off than it was 5,10,15 even 20 years ago. I was eating at Rooster's the other Friday night as I often do. I heard the lady at the next table describing the restaurant to someone on her cell phone, she said this certainly is not the Ogden I remember 10 years ago, as she was raving in excitement about the place. I have some clients I was talking from back east they are in SLC for another year they just bought a union square condo I was kind of surprised so I inquired why? They said they love Ogden it is REAL they said we are going stay at our condo, and hopefully catch this Gondola up to Snowbasin when it is built. Ogden is home, and God bless Ogden on its curerent path to stardom.
One counterpoint, Mr. President:
Quit bundling anyone who has a specific objection to what Ogden City has done in any particular instance as a "naysayer."
There are plenty of citizens around Ogden City who have legitimate complaints about how the arrogant Ogden City administration and City Counsel operate.
Ogden citizens are like bees in a jam-jar now, with their political attitude.
Council-heads will definitely roll this coming November.
Naysayers are what they are.
I will agree that Ogden is on the right track (heck, that's why I started my blog). In response to the "questioners" being lumped in with the "nay-sayers," it must be pointed out that there is a fine line here. I guess we must define what a naysayer is and what a questioner is. Where would Mr. Moyes be? How about Ms. Beech? How about Rudi? Knowing Rudi, I would say that he is meerely questioning certain aspects, but some could read topics discussed here and say that he was a naysayer. I must say, however, that I have a tremendous amount of respect for Rudi and what he does and would not like to put him into a group in which he does not belong. I am simply trying to make a point.
With regards to heads' rolling this November, I feel that it may just be our responsibility on this forum to discuss that. I honestly believe that we will be a determining factor in our local election just as blogs were a factor on the national scene last November. I will say, however, that the mayor's head was supposed to roll last election, as well as Mr. Bush's. I guess it all depends on the canditates they are up against. That is why we need to have an honest, open discussion on the incumbants and the challengers so that we can make wise decisions. Because I truly feel that, in the end, we all want what is best for our fair city. So, as the candidates come foreward, let's figure out their positive's and negative's. I will try to also step up coverage of the candidates on my blog to try and bring us all more coverage.
People who complain about specific problems can't all be lumped together.
Some of them will be wrong; and some will be right.
It's disengenuous to call them all "naysayers."
Use you're brains, people.
As I see it, the retort in the "Eureaka" post about "know your facts before you flap" is a crummy little comment meaning to insight. Later, the response was with dialogue and issues, rather than the little snip. Much better. I think I see what ec meant. Respond with facts that debate the premise, rather than snideness.
Now, let's all move on.
Were you and ec bullied as kids. You don't like the little snips. Oh I do hope you can move on without any little hurt feelings. Nobody likes a crybaby. Must be Democrats.
Is this clown the president going to start this bullshit all over again? I thought we'd either gotten rid of him or he'd grown up. Guess I was wrong. What's the matter with some people? Can't they just argue issues or something instead of coming across with these childishly personalized posts? God god man, grow the f--- up!
Hey this "president" is just doing his job as Godfree's lackey. Give him a break, he is as lame as his idol the little lord mayor.
He already demonstrated their being stuck in the anal stage with his perfectly stupid posts of last week featuring his favorite word - Fart and variations thereof. This week the little weiner on nine has instructed him to act "grown up" so he is only trying to follow orders from on high - ninth floor that is.
They are all clueless and truly believe they are on the yellow brick road. One day when the curtain is pulled back Mr. President will realize that the mayor is the wizard in all respects.
by jove, thomas, I think you've got it figured right to the T! We'll just go about our business and not pay any attention to either of them, the president or the lord fauntliroy mayor
I guess nobody has any info on what I asked earlier. Oh well. Considering that I haven't found anything to help me out on the web, there might not be any info out there.
Centerville Cit....read your latest post and will research the cemetary for you. I've been busy researching Union Square, as I posted some "facts" regarding the disposition of the residentail condos yesterday. My factual post was challenged by some guy who calls himself "president" who basically demeaned my position as a realtor and assumed (remember, he who assumes looses) I got my info from the MLS and that I should be more thourough. My findings, which I'll report on the proper thread, shows that I was correct (gee, I'm a pretty good realtor and do know how to research) and that this guy operates from a position of ignorance.
Be careful Centerville citizen. I think this realtor who fell off of the deck might be after a commission.
Anonymous, your ignorance proceeds you (think you're really the president or some lackey of our esteemed mayor). Any realtor who just "chases commission," does a disservice to himself, his client, and the industry. Granted, like many other businesses, we do have those among us, but by READING this realtors words, it's obvious that commission DOES NOT enter into this. I think you and yours are operating from a position of sour grapes, as the realtor has established and presented FACTS, not conjecture, and you guys can't handle the truth (thank you Jack Nicholson).
Is that retort all you've got? Sounds like it. As one of your buddies has suggested, check your facts. Anyne can LOOK at words and SPIN 'EM his or her way. The proper approach is to READ the words and DECIPHER the message.
Research at the proper source is evident here. Let's get real and support your hypothetical if you know how.
See what's happening, Rudi? Ever since you let this president loose again, he and his cute little suck-up buddy (same guy I'd bet) are back to their old crap, demeaning well intentioned people with vindictives instead of civil debate. Do we need to continue to suffer these light-headed dimwits for long?
Carl of Kaysville, Lighten up a little bit buddy. This is all part of the lords master plan. He loves these dimwits like "president", that's why he made so many of them and placed them in his special paradise called Ogden! Part of the price we must pay to live in God's favorite place.
Hey, thanks realtor on deck, although don't go through too much trouble. I was thinking about going up to the cemetery one day when I'm not working and talking with the staff at the cemetery office, and I could ask them then. I just thought I'd ask in case anyone knew anything offhand.
Carl Jones nobody likesa crybaby
Mr. Centerville citizen:
Why the curiousity about the Ogden city cemetery? You planning for the future? Just curious.
As bone yards go it is a pretty neat one. I have a huge number of relatives that reside there and I visit once in awhile. Great place to have a little nip with the lord and contemplate the meaning of it all.
I would advise you to be a little careful if you intend on taking up residence there as the mayor and council are going to institute an annual business licence on each single occupancy grave. The fee will be $300 per year and double that if you don't pay up by 1AM on the first of every January. Course now if you take the special classes they will be offering about how to be a proper corpse the fee will go down to $275 per year.
The mayor, being a specialist in this particular field, will be teaching the classes personally. This has become necessary because the special study the mayor commissioned determined that all those boring stiffs have been doing nothing but laying around all day and taking up an inordinant amount of city services and that in turn has been taking away from his ability to properly maintain the water system in town. You see it has finally been revealed that the cause of the failing infastructure really lies in the cemetery not on the ninth floor.
I also heard that the mayor and that sassy Sasten are trying to put another deal together to leverage the cemetery property for yet another gigantic $500 million dollar development project. This one is for a high volume eight lane expressway between the Kemp airport and the new mega million dollar gondola station downtown. This is to accomodate those tens of millions of visitors that are going to flock in to take a ride over to his bowling alley for a line or two before they chute up and free fall into the surf pool. The mayor is awfully good at taking people for a ride you know.
Enjoy your comments, keep em coming, we need a little injection of intelligence here in Ogden once in a while. We have an in breeding problem, especially with the mayor and his off spring on the city council.
Any help from the outside world would be appreciated.
Rudi, I know you're at it again....you've created this "paranoid," this "anonymous," this "president," (check out the post times-they're too close together for random people to respond) all of whom are the same sorry guy, just to draw in the idiots. The only problem, Rudi, is that the only idiot they've drawn in is himself. Push the kill button again. This blog is for grown-ups, not this juvenile s.o.b. who can't read or write and therefore, wastes everyone's time.
Bone yard crawler:
I have a lot of relatives buried in the Ogden Cemetery too. Your comments were very funny. And no, I won't be spending my existence as a dead person in the Ogden City Cemetery. According to some people on this blog, you never know if the lord mayor might decide to start digging people up and reselling grave spaces.
Man o Man Mr. Centerville I sure wished you hadn't a put that one in print!
It is now only a matter of time till Mayor Godfey and his council boys and girl pick up on that idea and try to implement it. It sounds perfect for yet another RDA - free money scheme. Declare the grave blighted, dump the poor stiffs out on the street and resell it to Wal-Mart at a deep discount so they can resell it at a huge profit which will then return the Mayor more sales tax revenue which he can use to hire more recently fired from Salt Lake high priced development guru's who can then dream up more new projects that willl further enslave us poor working stiffs in Ogden. Your simple idea when put in print could very well be the start of a whole new cycle of financial insanity.
I like your stuff on this blog but dam man, be carefull of what you suggest around these maniacs!
In the Standard today, in a piece called "Behind the Headlines," there is mention of Someone having called the paper and sung a parody to The Beverly Hillbillies theme song over the phone to the Standard employee who answered. I assume this was their managing editor, the writer of the column.
The article then goes on to say that the words to the parody can be seen at the local blog, Weber County Forum.
ec, are you listening???
I am listening, Dian, and all I can say is, "Blaspheme!" Is nothing sacred? Piracy, just like what occurs on Kaaza and Napster, right here on our blogsite.
I would voice my displeasure, but Utmorman would probably lump me in with that other guy as the one who'se really 50 voices, who are both so far out of hand.
And this thread still lives....
EC, you should sue on the grounds of copyright infringement, unless you were the one who called and sang the song to the Standard.
I think you might have a marketable rendition there.
I wondered, upon reading Andy Howell's Saturday "blurb," whether the words that were sung to Andy over the phone were the same ones as those in the original Beverly Hillbillies theme song.
Somebody emailed me a clever little revised set of lyric verses a few days ago, built around the name of somebody named "Matt."
I'd post them here, but they were a bit too "colorful," for a public venue, shall we say...
I suppose you could always edit them, Rudi. Your "lipstick on a pig" phrase was an edit, and that was quite colorful.
I'm gonna track the guy down and sue him for copyright violation and lyrical theft, alright. Those were my words, they were original, and if anyone should sing 'em to the Standard reporter, it should be me.
Thanks for your support!
And Rudi, maybe you could put the original draft that you edited with "lipstick on a pig" in a back posting. It might be colorfully acceptable there, tucked away on an inside page, instead of a blatant expose on the Cover. Whad'ya think?
Way off topic, if there is one....
What on earth is happening to the English language?? There is a headling in the Standard that reads: "Ogden to disallow long-term stays at hotels, motels."
"Disallow." We have a perfectly good word: "prohibit," which means what is meant by "disallow."
A friend of mine was in a meeting once where someone was talking about the capability to "unfreeze," and this went on until somebody finally said, "Don't you mean "thaw?"
I realize that words like "disallow," and perhaps even "unfreeze" are now common usage. but this is at the expense of the rich, colorful language we have.
Article in today's Tribune regarding Ogden's rehiring of John Patterson, written by Cathy McKitrick, the reporter who gave us all the coverage of Union Square. I for one am sorry the Standard lost her:
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2932199
Patterson has been the Salt Lake County Public Works Director for seven months.
Here are some quotes from the article:
" His annual salary will jump from $109,000 to $117,000 and, as Ogden's second in command, Patterson will have more power."
"During Patterson's brief tenure, embattled Fleet Manager Nick Morgan was ousted and the county's vehicle operation overhauled. Patterson later hired Jason Godfrey - brother of Ogden's mayor - as his associate director after Godfrey spent a short stint as interim fleet manager."
""I voted against him and slept well because of it," Safsten said, and left it at that."
" "He'll be making 5 percent more than [former CAO] Nate Pierce did when he left Ogden," Garcia said. "And no one's worth 5 percent more than Nate.""
"By ordinance, the city's CAO is required to live in Ogden, a move which Patterson did not make during his previous position with the city. "
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