One of our more faithful WCF readers, Moroni McConkie, has suggested that I install a reader poll this morning.He writes:
"Will the Forum conduct a poll on the issue of gondolas as effective public transportation, quite apart from the tourism angle? The cheerleading on this issue distracts us from counting the votes. Incidentally, has the prophet spoken on this yet?"
I think that's a flippin' fine idea, brother McConkie; and I thank you for the suggestion.
For those who are unfamiliar with cable-based transportation systems, I'd suggest a quick perusal of yesterday's main article and comments. There exists some confusion about the characteristics of "trams" and "gondolas," which are two different and distinct types of cable transport systems. In this connection, WCF regular UTmorMAN posted some commentary yesterday that is instructive on that issue. You'll also find some excellent general discussion of the peculiarities and drawbacks of gondola systems there.
Remember too, this poll is intended to address only that segment of the proposed system which would connect the downtown Ogden intermodal hub with the WSU campus, and not the upper "leg," which would run up the mountain from the WSU campus to Snow Basin.
Take the Poll Now!
38 comments:
Dian Woodhouse, you mentioned in a recent post that somebody has been "singing my song" to somebody at the Standard Examiner and that it hit the news in the "Behind the Headlines" column. I can't find it anywhere, even in the Standard Net search engine. Do you have any details, reporter's name on tag line, headlinge, etc. that would help me to find the article? Would greatly appreciate any assistance you might render.
As for the gondola, you have, as usual, brought up many thought provoking issues. You do your research, your posts are articulate, and if you're not careful they'll lump you in with all of us other "obstructionists."
Nice job.
You too, Amy. Your concerns re: the gondola generated much thought and reason as to why this may not be such a swell idea. Thanks, for both participating in this blogsite and for your unyielding efforts on our City Council. I've yet to see an issue on the docket that you have not studied and given much thought to, which makes your vote a very solid, well reasoned vote. Atta girl.
Yo ec:
You seemed to be a little high centerd on the idea of someone stealing your Beverly Hillbillies take off - you know, the one you stole from TV! (I liked your words better than the original!)
The deal in the SubStandard was practically nothing by the way. It only mentioned this at the end of a long dish of crap served up by the so called papers main editor - Howell. You can find it at:
http://www2.standard.net/standard/news/58577/
Keep those observations coming, maybe between the two of us we can educated this Morman kid that yearns to be a Morman Man!
Actually on second thought according to the kid you and I are most likely the same person! It's sort of like we are talking to ourselves! As the old joke goes - sometimes that is the best conversation you can have! Have you done your fifty postings yet today? Shit-O-Dear I'm only up to 20 and my fingers are getting bony and tarred.
I spent some quality time with THREE (3) great people today....me, myself, and I.
Copyright infringement is the sincerest form of flatery.
Isn't this stuff grand?
Find it, ec? It was termed "clever." too. I think you should be flattered. Is this Weber County Forum's first mention in the media? If so, we owe it all to you!!!
Didn't Porter mention the blog before in the Standard?
He might have but you know so much of what he writes goes right through you just like spoiled navy beans.
PS I forgot -
So ec you seem to be avoiding the main issue here. I bellieve some one ask you if you were up to speed on your fifty posts for today? I notice you very conveniently forgot to answer. Clear indication that you are not holding up your part in this little two person conspiracy you and I are trying to foist upon the good WCF readers! Come on man, if it is left to me alone it won't be a conspiracy anymore, cut me some slack here amigo no way can I do a hundred bitch letters by myself! It is going to take both of us to take the mayor and council down, a conspiracy, I cannot do it by myself!!
"Didn't Porter mention the blog before in the Standard?"
No is the answer to that question.
To his credit though, I've spoken with Don about weblogs myself, and I certainly wouldn't consider him "blog-unfriendly."
There's been talk lately on this board about "neoCONS."
Does anybody here really know who they are, or what they believe?
Shadia Drury does.
If you read her article, you'll know a little more about them too.
The same people are running our government right here in Mayberry, USA.
Thank you so much, musical fans. I'll be signing autographs this Saturday morning at the Farmer's Market in my stand that's right next to Jorgenson and his therapy couch.
I'm working on a new song about the Gondola, a take-off on that great song "The MTA," by the Kingston Trio....It's about "a guy named Matthew who rides forever 'ore the streets of Ogden, the man who never returns."
It should be out sometime this week.
Again, thanks for the recognition and all of your best wishes. All these platitudes are overwhelming. I'm college educated, but they didn't teach me the words to express my appreciation to my many fans. The standard's set, the bar's been raised, and I have much to live up to.
Now, back to the mall, Union Square, and the Gondola. I'll leave you my forwarding address, as I only have 90 days until the City wants me to move. Can you believe that one, ladies and gentlemen?
I think what scares most people, who are non-neoCONS, about this last election is that there seems to be a convergance between church and state. Scary, but nothing new to us Utahns, however. That is probably why this article slanted this way.
As far as neoCONS go... I think that the general consensus among real conservatives is that they yell a lot, and spend all of our tax money. I thought the Republicans were supposed to be fiscally conservative. Anywhooo... there's my two cents.
This was posted to get my 50 posts in for the day... since I am just another hat for ec. I talked myself up on the other thread, and I greatly appreciated it.
I want this Utmormon kid to explain himself. Who is he. What's he up to? Why is he here?
1st voice, 49th name....keep them posts coming Jerry, Bonnie, Joe, Tommy, Bill, Curtis, John Henry, Frank N. Stein, etc....
Nonsense, Steven
Re-read the first paragraph:
"There is a certain irony in the fact that the chief guru of the neoconservatives is a thinker who regarded religion merely as a political tool intended for the masses but not for the superior few. Leo Strauss, the German Jewish émigré who taught at the University of Chicago almost until his death in 1973, did not dissent from Marx’s view that religion is the opium of the people; but he believed that the people need their opium. He therefore taught that those in power must invent noble lies and pious frauds to keep the people in the stupor for which they are supremely fit."
Ms. Drury's argument is that neoconservative leadership is itself non-religious, but that it treats the genuinely religious population as pawns and dupes.
Your complaint about the publishing website is ad hominem in form, by the way. Professor Drury is a noted scholar in her own right, and is widely recognized as being an expert on Professor Strauss, and the neoconservative movement that he founded.
She's published many books and articles, of which this is just one.
NeoCon is just another name for these weinies down at city hall that think they are the source of all knowledge and all wisdom. The truth of it is they are arrogant little pecker woods that aint worth a bucket of horse snot. They don't give a rats ass what the people think because they think they think better than the damn people. They know more about what's good for us than we do. They are the guardians of the common good. They are the modern day commies.
Back in the 50's and 60's they called these kind of squirrels tax and spend liberals. Well these pretenders at city hall are just the same but with out the heart that the old liberals had. They will throw folks out of their homes at the bat of an eye if it means more money for their own political games. They are dedicated to central planning and if it aint their idea it aint shit. Most of all they got a real crappy attitude toward the folks that they are supposed to be representing.
I've seen a lot of politicians come and go in my time but I aint seen nothing like this current crop. If I can get up out of this damn so called rest home on vote day in November I am sure as hell going to vote for any body that is running against these jive asses.
Viktor, you're back! About time, but what gives? The Raptors are on a road trip and the guys at St. Ben's Manor tell me your Oxycontin script has been all used up.
Makes no sense, but damn it man, it's good to here from ya again.
Let's see, which one are you tonite, Ozboy or EC? Ah shucks, don't much matter any-whoooo, you're one in a hundred and that's good enough for me.
Glad you're up and running again, ya old foggie....
I'll be rooting for the Gondola just as much as the Wildcats this fall. Go Cats and Go Gondola.
>>>I'll be rooting for the Gondola just as much as the Wildcats this fall. Go Cats and Go Gondola.<<<
Put all your money on Coach McBride & the Wildcats, and NONE of it on the gondola.
If a gondola would have been economically viable, we'd already have one by now.
Watch Wildcats football and put down the bong.
Jimmy the Geek, economically viable or not, unless we dynamite it, we'll have a gondola. Haven't you learned yet, that economic viability MATTERS NOT with Mayor M. Godfrey and friends. A Balance Sheet in the black doesn't come into play with this group....they can just toss in some more "haircut money" and keep the ball rolling.
But look on the bright side: Anonymous can drive down to 23rd & Wall, catch the Gondola and ride to the game, thereby avoiding all of that nasty traffic. After the game he can ride the gondola back to 23rd & Wash, hop off and trot on over to the rec centre (guave over the "e" for that French accent) for a workout. And then he can trot back to 23rd & Wash, catch the other gondola car and ride on down to the Intermodal Hub, get in his car and drive to 25th Street for cocktails in Union Square.
How about that anonymous? Don't it sound just spiffy?
Here's a nite cap for ya'll, to the tune of "MTA," byt the Kingston Trio:
Let me tell you 'bout a story
of mayor named Matthew,
On one tragic and fateful day;
He put ten bucks in his pocket,
kissed his wife and family,
Went to ride on hi Gon-do-lay!
But did he ever return?
No, and he never did learn,
And his fate is still unlearned;
He will ride forever,
'ore the streets of Ogden,
He's the mayor who never did learn!
Mathew climbed into his cabin
at the 23rd Street Station,
Thought he'd take a ride
and see the view;
Well it took him up to Quincy
or maybe it was Jackson,
When it broke down
and his ride was through.
But did he ever return?
No, and he never did learn,
And his fate is still unlearned;
He may ride forever,
'ore the streets of Ogden,
He's the mayor who never did learn!
Well the moral of this story is
Be careful what you wish for,
For indeed it just might come true;
Don't go spending too much money
on those hairbrained projects,
You'll catch a beating
that never gets through!
r
By the way, myself in disquise," I imagine that you mant to say "balance sheet in the RED." If you are going to make fun of me at least try to do it in a semi-intelligent manner.
Oh yeah,
and get my name right utmorMAN.
Utmorman, are taking things way too seriously. You must be getting advice from the "president," as your posts are quite surley as of late. Son, you have to READ and then maybe READ again. Look at the post to "Jimmy the Geek," and the READ it well. I refer to a Balance Sheet in the Black, correct? What does that mean? Now, think about it. Got it? If not, allow me to explain: A Balance Sheet in the Black means PROFIT, my boy, PROFIT. And PROFIT means that the project is working.
Now, step 2 is that Jimmy the Geek mentioned we'd have a gondola already if it was economically viable. My response, now take your time with this, is that we'll have one regardless of whether it's "economically viable" or not, it it's up to Godfrey, because a BALANCE SHEET IN THE BLACK is MEANINGLESS to him and his cronies. Profit, being in "the black," none of this matters to Godfrey, as his projects to date, NONE of which show a profit margin, continue to be forced onto the citizenry.
Got it? Economics 101. Catch the Gondola and ride to WSU, and take a class.
As for the mis-spelling of the name or handle if you're into CB Radios, IT WAS INTENTIONAL, dude, INTENTIONAL, a parody. Understand?
Get with it kid, snap out of it, you were much better received when you weren't so "personallized." Like you were told once before, this is a game, relax and enjoy or you'll be grounded! :)
I know that she is the golden girl of this board, so I hesitate in even bringing it up, but where is Ms. Wicks? She has yet to answer my questions. If she is too busy, that is completely understandable. However, as of now, this makes two times that she has completely dodged my questions.
My appologies,
Again, it is difficult to get sarcasm over the internet. My interpretation of you saying "A Balance Sheet in the black doesn't come into play with this group" meaning that a balance sheet where nothing makes money does not come into play with this group, which therefore would make the balance sheet in the red, not in the black. When I am wrong, I readily admit it. So if I am wrong, please accept my apology.
I guess I am a bit short these days. It seems that some of the thoughts expressed lately around here have touched a nerve with me. One thing you all need to know about is me is that my sense of humor is one of my overriding traits. However I'll say it one more time, it is a skill to be able to express certain emotions over the internet. Also, I feel very strongly about issues in this city and sometimes have a hard time joking about things that I feel very, very strongly about. If that offends anyone, sorry.
Check out Bernlaw.blogspot for the real Gondola story.
Enough with your crummy little ad, bernie....your blog don't make it pal. Post and debate but don't try to draw us away from here.
Hey I'm with "why me" - I checked this bernie the lawyer site out and it is the poor man's version of our late punk friend UtMorMan's "feel good while Ogden rots from under us" blog. Both are apologist spots for the mayor and his cronies.
It was kind of sad to see the Utmormanboy flame out like he did. I didn't really mean to hurt his feelings. But hey, he was trotting out the party line for the mayor and all I wanted to know was the true facts and figures to back up these fabulous assertions and promises he was repeating endlessly. Stuff he was getting right out of the gangs feel good brochues!
He never did provide even one shred of evidence to support his support of all this madness.
The entire Godfrey agenda is strickly faith based! They have never once produced any evidence of any kind that this off the wall rec center, or any of their wild eyed dreams, will be a success. And guess what? They are going to issue twenty million dollars worth of your money to two characters of dubious qualifications to build this latest wild scheme! Now is that faith or what? Of course it is rather easy to have faith when you are rolling the dice with tax payer's money!
The UtMoboy remindes me of one of those missionaries that come home and can't quit prosolizing. They are easy prey for guys like Godfrey who just give them a new gospel to go out and sell. The beauty of it is that these ernest and ambitious young people are already used to selling a fantastic story based solely on faith. Some of them are really quite good at it. Unfortunately our UtBoy isn't one of them. I hope he had more success at pitching Joe's story than he did here in Ogden with Matt's. At least Joe's story is an interesting one, while Matt's is a crashing bore.
Poor UtMoboy embarrassed himself, the Godfreyites and the Allen clan with his bush league approach and response. So now they are trotting out their big guns, the lawyer bro in law! Twill be interesting to see if he can make the case for the Godfreyite agenda. He is an attorney after all, and If arrogance is indeed genetic he might fall as flat as MoBoy and the BoyMayor did.
How is it that a republican appearing and self righteous little SOB like Godfrey could be the product of a so called "people's party" Democrat party machine like Allen's? I don't remember the Democratic party as being a breeding ground for this sort of arrogant abusers of human rights and dignity.
Get the story before commenting.
Bernie sent his commentaries in and was intstructed to start his own blog.
Go look at my blog. All of the needed evidence is there. At least all that we have now. As I said before, it is simply stupid to present things that are still in the works as facts. No amount of insulting, name calling, and general put-downs is going to incite me to "drop the ball" and comment in issues that are still being studied. If you all want info. take a lesson from the a momish and learn some patiencee and longsuffering, heaven knows I have learned all of that being amongst you all as of late.
One more thing, get the story about the connection between the Mayor and his father-in-law before you go and make allegations like you have. You guys all seem to want facts; where are they here?
I have not flamed out, I am still here posting, unlike certain city officials who have gone quiet.
utmorman said:
"Get the story before commenting.
Bernie sent his commentaries in and was intstructed to start his own blog."
What??? I don't understand this at all.
What is meant by "sent his commentaries in?" Did he try to post and get deleted? Or did he e-mail Rudi and ask that his commentaries be put on the lead topic of the day and Rudi chose not to do that?
If the latter, I think that is certainly Rudi's right to do---it's his blog, after all.
The way that quote sounds is that Bernie attempted to participate in The Weber County Forum and was rebuffed. Is that true?
Of course it is Rudi's right. I was simply responding to a poster's comment that he was trying to take people away from here.
Dian and UTmorMAN, Let's just nip that little story in the bud right now.
This guy "Bernie's" never tried to communicate with me, and any suggestion that he ever did so is pure hogwash.
As regular WCF readers know, I make constant requests for reader submissions. In fact sometimes I get down on my knees and beg for them, on particularly slow news days, especially when I'm suffering from writer's block. So hungry for provocative content am I, that I often yank particularly thought-provocative essays from the deep recesses of the reader-comments mines, and plaster them on the front page as lead articles, as all loyal and gentle WCF readers already know.
No, somebody is being "less than forthright" with this little yarn, Dian. I never refused an article or "instructed" "Bernie" to start his own blog. I'll try to mind my manners and refrain from labelling this little story for what it really is. Let's just say it ain't the truth.
As a matter of fact, I'll add that I'm personally aquainted with this guy Bernie, if he's the same "Bernie" that some of our readers seem believe he is. If we're all talking about the same fellow here, I'd actually love having him contribute to this board. He's bright, competent and has a killer sense of humor. He's just the sort of person I'd hoped would populate this place.
If it's Bernie Allen we're talking about here, I say "Welcome aboard, mate!" There's always room for one more intelligent commentator here at WCF. The more the merrier, I say.
In my heart of hearts, Dian, I'd always envisioned this forum as one where I could post a provocative article from one end of the political spectrum or the other five or six days a week, and then take off fishing or skiing for the rest of the day, confident in the knowledge that our loyal readers would do all the work. So far this hasn't quite happened, (although it's come close a time or two.) I thus spend far more of my time researching and writing than I'd really like to do.
Running a decent blog's a lot of work, frankly, and the job becomes a whole lot easier when I can get other folks to chip in with their insights, reasoning and comments.
And no. I do NOT engage in censorship. Ask Don Porter, Dorothy Littrel and a few others whose articles have appeared on the front page.
Nope, the story doesn't have even a grain of truth to it; and I'm frankly surprised that the usually gracious and courteous UTmorMAN would raise this ridiculous issue, without at least having run it by me first. I don't think I'd be speaking out of school when I say that UTmorMAN and I communicate frequently behind the cyber scenes by email and telephone. I must say I'm a little disappointed in UTmorMAN right now, for having failed to ask me about this.
And in closing I'll just add this: I don't know whether Bernie can hear me; but if he can, all I can say is Welcome to Weber County Forum!
And one more thing. If this blog has developed a one-sided "flavor," it's the fault of the people who seem to be sitting on the sidelines complaining. If people want to log on and state their views, it isn't me who's stopping them.
There... I feel much better. It's time to post today's article, and then head out for my daily business.
Sorry Rudi,
That is what I was told. I simply assumed that you knew what was going on. My fault. I should have checked with you first. For the second time this week I offer an apology to you.
Utmo'mboy, when will you learn. The sun does not rise and set on this blog. Youdon't pass on as factual something "I was told." Also, remember the words of Alabama's Bear Bryant: "He who assumes, looses."
You are flaming out, it seems to me. You wallow in this insipid utopia to be state, you cry because Amy hasn't answerd you (hell, son, you even tried to be cute with that fact, mentioning it for the 3rd time a post or 2 ago), then patted yourself on the back for answering Bonnie Lee.
What are we to do with you? You can rant and rave on your own blog, but space here is precious and PUUUL-EASE, get make to debate and dialogue instead of this incessant whimpering that is now so prevalent in your posts.
Everyone knows your the mayor's lackey and you extoll what you feel are his virtues (unfortunately, he really has none), but enough of hammering those who disagree....just debate them and leave the crying towel in the corner, or else you to will be sent to stand there with a dunce cap on.
allright teacher, I will do just that.
Nipped in the bud it is, Rudi.
Your response reaffirmed what I believed to be the purpose and nature of The Weber County Forum, and that is why I participate in it.
Adam Gopnik, critic-at-large for The New Yorker, identifies four stages of municipal development projects in Gotham. (See issue of 3/22/04.) I swear, the more one hears about gondolas, the more the concept sounds straight out of New York. Stage One is the "Sacrificial Plan" ("some staggeringly obvious and controversial" thing that "even the architect knows will never be built"). Stage Two is the "Semi-Ridiculous Rhetorical Statement," "intended to show the plan is not as brutal and cynical as it looks."
Hello, Ogden! Does this sound familiar?
I'll leave it to Forum readers to look up the 3rd and 4th stages, but it might hearten Ogden's City Hall to know that, despite Gopnik's displeasure with the way municipal developments proceed, most are ultimately realized.
It's mind-numbing to hear local officials' Gertrude Stein-like repetitions of the virtues of gondolas as public transportation. "Semi-Ridiculous Rhetorical Statement" may actually be too kind a characterization.
The quackery is so transparent that one wonders if gondolas are merely a Sacrificial Plan; red herrings for something else. If true, what might Ogden's sachems REALLY be planning?
(Okay, okay, the third stage is the "Staged Intervention of the Professionals" and the fourth is -- are you ready? -- the "Sorry Thing Itself." Watch your back.)
Post a Comment