- The Dover Area School Board unanimously agreed Tuesday to pay $1 million in legal fees to the plaintiffs who successfully sued to end the policy of presenting "intelligent design" as an alternative to evolution. In December, a federal judge ruled the previous board's decision to insert intelligent design into the science curriculum violated the constitutional separation of church and state.
- If you've been following the national news, you're well aware that President Bush has suffered a political firestorm over the last two days -- directed from both sides of the political aisle -- as a result of the administration's decision to turn over the management of six major U.S. ports to an arab-owned company. The "lefty" blogosphere is making hay with this story; and the latest news is that President Bush is now "backing away from it," saying he didn't know about it until it had been cleared by his underlings. One excellent libertarian website has a couple of good articles on this subject here and here, expressing a well-reasoned contrarian take.
- On the local front, the Ogden City Council was "firing on all cylinders" at last night's meeting, approving a zoning change for a developer who plans to build a movie theater, a health club and a bookstore on Ogden City's North Street, about three miles north of Ogden's "The Junction" project. Whereas the Boyer Company had earlier urged the council to reject this project, the Council did "the right thing," approving the zoning change by a unanimous 7-0 vote.
- Not only that, the council decided, in closed session, to immediately notify the Utah House of Representatives Rules Committee of its opposition to Senator Jenkins' Senate Bill 229. There had previously been considerable confusion and wheel-spinning within the council apparatus on this issue, and it is encouraging that the council at last decided formally to register its opposition to the bill that we've appropriately but affectionately dubbed "Godfrey's revenge."
Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Afternoon Open Thread
Your humble blogmeister will be busy with an ongoing and labor-intensive partisan political project for the rest of the day, so it's time for another open thread. Here are some possible discussion topics though, which may provide fodder for further conversation:
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31 comments:
Just exactly who does Bill Cook and Jolly the Lobby guy work for and report to?
Isn't it ironic how the old city council approved all things by a 5-2 margin and they were rubberstamping and now the council approves things 7-0 since they have been in office and they are "firing on all cylinders?"
Counselon-
Ya, what about that? I really don't get it either?
I may be mistaken, but you seem to be critical of the arguments placed on this site for the past few months.
The fact is, the old city council were rubber stampers! But....much to our chagrin, the new city council is too! What gives?
They were supposed to stop this spiral into indebtedness! They were supposed to uncover the filth and corruption of the Mayor's plan. What they are actually doing is jumping onboard lock-stock-and barrel.
The Standard Examiner does nothing but publish good news stories that are hopelessly over optimistic and essentially politically oriented on behalf of the Mayor.
Are we supposed to believe that the Hotel managers are really suddently optimistic about their future occupancy rates because of the Rec Center? This has Pee Wee written all over it!
Are we supposed to believe that zoning adjustments are really necessary to manage the inflow of businesses that are clamoring to join the Rec Center fiasco? This has "New Gang of Six" written all over it!
Are we supposed to believe that suddenly we need to investigate the idea of new hotels to handle the inflow of people that suddenly want to have a conference at our conference center? Why Jeske would entertain such an idea is silly. Our occupancy rates are only 50% right now. Is she really that dilusional to believe that the near term future of our city could need more hotels? Gang of Six all over again. What ludicrous business information is she using to justify the mayor's bad business plans and decisions?
Are we supposed to believe that suddenlty Ski Companies decided to come here to save some rent costs? Just now, out of the clear blue, they all decided that Ogden was a great "Low Cost" place to do business---afterall, hasn't it always been that? At least for the past 20 years! The New Gang of Six and the Mayor are selling these companies a vision of Ogden that isn't real, that is doomed to failure, that is being heaped on the backs of average Ogdenites and that probably won't come to fruition because the stupidity of it all will eventually yield to reality!
Are we supposed to believe that suddenly Chris Peterson and his project have some interesting merit that is worth looking at? It is a West Side resort folks! He's an idiot. We shouldn't put a dime of annexation money into his dream. Just because he's willing to flush millions down the toilet on a doomed project doesn't mean all of us who know better should through in our tax dollars.
Are we supposed to believe that Larry Miller is actually going to put a Movie theatre in Ogden? He hasn't put a contract on the table yet. He's just waiting to see how much of our tax dollars he can get first.
Are we supposed to believe that a Gondola linking downtown to WSU to Chris Peterson's resort has any value what so ever? That Gondola's an environmental and social terrorist! It only serves the rich and the business men who are pursuing all of these efforts at the expense of common Ogdenites.
Are we supposed to believe all of this B.S.! Gang of Six! Stop acting like it. You are not getting your legs under you! You are not "firing on all cylinders"!
Even our heroic blogmeister, Rudi has forgot from whence he came and to where he was going! The idea was to stop the Gang of Six and the Mayor, not become the Gang of Six!
Matthew Godrey is the essence of pure evil! Napoleon, Hitler, Godfrey are all apples from the same bushel. This blog is the only voice of truth in Ogden and we need to stay on message that Godfrey has the blood of many on his hands...
"Isn't it ironic how the old city council approved all things by a 5-2 margin and they were rubberstamping and now the council approves things 7-0 since they have been in office and they are 'firing on all cylinders?'"
I think you're missing the point, counselon. Last night's two votes were both council-driven. Although the Mayor's administration didn't actively argue against the rezoning, there were clearly members of the administration during the weeks prior to the vote who would have preferred that the zoning request be denied, in order to protect Boyer's interests. They city administration already knew they would be "trounced" on the issue -- so they meekly failed to put up even a little fight.
As for the council's policy letter, that was ENTIRELY the new council's agenda. The Mayor's office was the driving force sponsoring SB229, and the council acted clearly and forcefully to oppose it. What's interesting is that the remaining two of the old "gang-of-six" went along with the new council members -- and against the Mayor's office on this. Rather than being a rubber stamp -- they were JUST THE OPPOSITE.
The council acted to protect the interests of our police and firefighters, something the administration did not want.
We have a council that's now behaving like an independent legislative body. They're on the way to establishing a balance in government that we haven't seen in the last four years.
Hooray for the new council, I say.
No, actually you are missing the point. The new council is doing the exact same thing, except with your guys and gals, so you support it. And worse, you are seeing right past it with those rose colored glasses you seem to despise so much. That's what is going on here.
You're fulluvit, counselon.
The new council is speaking its own mind, and thinking for itself for the first time in four years.
Rudi -
What are you talking about? Are you the same guy that rallied all of us against the Gang of Six? They vote right down the Mayor's line! Nothing is different with the new city council. The old city council wasn't exaclty destroying every ounce of public programs. We weren't angry with them over their treatement of the firefighters so much as we were their 100% rubber stamping of Mayor G's plans. The new city council is simply doing the same thing. You may think things are radically different, but the fact is, we're going to be sold a gondola, a fully functional reck Ogden center, a ski villa and the like. And who is going to sell it to us: the co-op of the new Gang of six, the Mayor, the standard examiner, and a few big shot businessmen who will profit at our expense.
You sound like the Geigers, Chris Peterson, and the rest now! They are 100% in support of what the new city council has done in recent days. They aren't exactly balking that the new city council is a disaster. I'll bet if you asked them, they'd like the new city council as much as they did the last. Everything they wanted, which saddly is everything that is in the Mayor's vision, is being voted on 100% by the new gang of six.
The idea was to stop this stuff, not line up and walk it all in with a new group of flunkies.
I thought we were being honest and sincere when we aggressively confronted the ways of the old city council. Now, the difference between the new and the old is a matter of splitting hairs.
Come on!
"The idea was to stop this stuff, not line up and walk it all in with a new group of flunkies."
Rome wasn't built in a day, anonymous. Impatience is NOT a virtue.
I'm confident the new council has found its legs, is learning, and everything will be fine.
LaMaze through it for now.
That's my advice.
Anonymous and Counselon seem to have forgotten, and SO QUICKLY, the Ernest Health Care fiasco. The 3 new council members took the lead in questions posed to Ernest, with a few "soft questions" posed by the other 4, and then suddenly, ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE! Ernest gone, with they, the Administration (still today I hear) and Ernest, pointing the finger of blame at the 3 "newbies." This is hardly a bunch of new "rubber stampers," people.
The mall is INHERITED! It's here! No turning back! So, with the eyes of the watchdogs, the "newbies" are going to make it happen, change the way that business WAS DONE, but make it happen nevertheless. What the hell's wrong with that. If it doesn't fly, 40-50 million tax payer dollars fly the coop. Is that worth taking off the "rose colored glasses?" Not in my world, it isn't.
The gondola and Malin's Basin? Concept. So what? I read earlier that if these things are done via private dollars and become successful, then Ogden should glean a windfall from that. But I agree with this "Ski Bum" character, ANNESATION needs to happen first, or the County gets it.
You 2 guys are not much different than those clowns on the ohter blog, who are demeaning the newbies for changing their positions and backing the mall, etc. What NONE of you KNOW IT ALLS realize is that you don't know anything. There's a big picture there, a puzzle, that when the pieces are put in JUST RIGHT, Ogden wins!
Rudi's correct. Today's council is acting like a council should have acted years ago. There's more to the over-all than merely meets the eye, and the council has seen it.
Go Council!
What excuse did they use to go into closed session? The only one that I would think could be used is the one about litigation but I think that is a real stretch.
(i) discussion of the character, professional competence, or physical or mental health of an individual;
(ii) strategy sessions to discuss collective bargaining;
(iii) strategy sessions to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation;
(iv) strategy sessions to discuss the purchase, exchange, or lease of real property when public discussion of the transaction would disclose the appraisal or estimated value of the property under consideration or prevent the public body from completing the transaction on the best possible terms;
(v) strategy sessions to discuss the sale of real property when:
(A) public discussion of the transaction would disclose the appraisal or estimated value of the property under consideration or prevent the public body from completing the transaction on the best possible terms;
(B) the public body had previously given public notice that the property would be offered for sale; and
(C) the terms of the sale are publicly disclosed before the public body approves the sale;
(vi) discussion regarding deployment of security personnel, devices, or systems;
(vii) investigative proceedings regarding allegations of criminal misconduct; and
(viii) discussion by a county legislative body of commercial information as defined in Section 59-1-404.
"What excuse did they use to go into closed session? "
Discussion of the character, professional competence, or physical or mental health of an individual, ARCritic.
There's a rat's nest existing in the city council apparatus that even Your humble blogmeister cannot now disclose.
Counselon and Anon....knock it off!
The council gave the go ahead to ANOTHER shopping area last night! Against the wishes of the admin and Boyer....that's not rubber stamping...that's Godfrey STOMPING!
I agree with Rudi...there's stuff afoot...and someONE on the council is bearing the brunt of it.
Jolley works for the administration...just like he does for Sandy! Bill Cook....that may be a toss up!
I think the council would do well to cut loose Jolley and maybe Cook!
That letter to the legislature denouncilng SB 229 was supposed to go down to the Capitol week before last...it didn't. That's Cook's fault. You should thank Jeske for standing up for your interests...and quite often she's the lone voice for sensibility.
One thing about Jeske, she never waits to see poll numbers....she does what is right. She'll never be invited to the Mayor's Christmas dinner...unless he can have her as cooked goose. Give her and the others a break.
Counselon and Anonymous, you are hopeless! The vote last Tuesday night was 7 - 0 because for the FIRST time in years the TAXPAYERS are NOT PAYING ANYTHING to make that development happen! The developer is doing it with his own money -- no tax incentives, and NO RDA TAX INCREMENT MONEY!! You guys are so warped with hate that you can't see anything good. Go take a dip in the Jordan River! Maybe your vision will be miracuously cleared! You're disgusting!
I haven't heard ANY of the Counsel say that they support the gondola, yet you're condemning them as though they had. And I've heard Jeske say that she doesn't think it's feasible or cost-effective to annex Malan's Basin and Chris Peterson's yet to be resort. The revenue from the resort to the City coffers would never come close to covering the pay-out for road and maintenance, for installing water and sewer lines, etc. I've heard her say, it's the County's, let them keep the headache and expense. And all she did was ask Boyer if they were contemplating a hotel on the old mall site. I heard rumors that they were and that the gondola was going to run through it. It seems to me that was a legitimate question, not a commitment. Honestly, do you think the old Counsel would have gone against the Mayor and sent a letter to the Legislature opposing HIS bill to strip the fire and police departments of their protection from him? I don't think so.
I stayed last Tuesday night until pretty late, and there was NO executive closed-door session. They did not break the law! The press was in their work meeting with them.
You guys are worse than those old biddy women who have nothing to do but sit around and look for the worst in every situation, and when there is nothing to pick at, you have to make something up! I'm holding the mirror up to you, do you see the twisted, little ogres you've become because of your hate?
You're lowering yourself to the same level as Godfrey. I'm telling you this in hopes that you'll want to improve your lives and become a positive influence instead of so negative about everything.
Let's let the Council do their job of gaining information and voting appropriately so as to encourage businesses to open in Ogden and get some tax revenue coming into the City coffers.
Did somebody on this blog just accuse reprove somebody for being negative about everything? What in the world has happened to this place?
hah, Anonymous....I misdaled a number the other day, and introduced myself...the guy said, "Are you the Sharon Beech who is against everything in this town??" No, I'm not...(small silence).."you're not?"...no, I'm not.."well, nice talking to you>" he sid. No, I don't think so, I replied...I'm the Sharon Beech who is CATEGORIZED as negative about everything...then he went on about Walmart, rec center, etc. I told him that I was always against the taxpayers' being BONDED...and did he come to the council meetings? "yes I doooo", he sing- songed.Asked him if he reads the SE..."yes I dooo."...WELL, that explains it!Surely he's heard me get up several times and talk about the need for a grocery in downtown area...and preferably the Walmart neighborhood market...and reminded him that SO. Ogden now has the revenue from ALL the businesses that have sprung up around that store..."Oh, I don't know about that", this dope replies. Well, is So. Ogden sending money to Ogden??? Also, since we citizens are heavily invested in "The Junction"..we hope it's a go! (That confused him) Anyway, it was fun to set this jerk straight. I've never seen him at a council meeting, and if he reads the SE, it's no wonder the poor slob hasn't a clue.
Dial a wrong # sometime and engage in some enlightening conversation...saving Ogden..one misdial at a time! Thank you AT&T!
Has anyone found the 2006 Ogden City budget online? I found a 2005 one last year, and it was approved in June of '04, meaning that this year's should have been approved in June of '05, but I can't find it on the city web page.
Does it exist yet in finished form?
Just a note to let you all know that young Steve Prisbrey and his bride Erica are hitching it up for time and eternity today in the Ogden Temple!
Reception tonight at 6PM at the train station. Lets show up to wish them well.
Maybe we can also help Steve come in from the political dark side!
There's a rat's nest existing in the city council apparatus that even Your humble blogmeister cannot now disclose.
This is Not Fair. Where's Dorrene with her flashlight?
Just trying to be an informed citizen here.
sounds like a pretty loose interpretation of the open meetings law. actually, sounds like a violation of the open meetings law. but that would be nothing new for ogden city
Guys-
I'm Mr. Anonymous that everyone thinks is so "Negative"! I don't think so. I'm just a guy who was genuinely interested in seeing change occur in our city. I'm just a guy who believed in the fact that the WCF had a genuine understanding that the direction the Mayor is going is a bad one. The council was supposed to stop him, and they are not. The old council did some things that didn't line up perfectly with the Mayor's plans, and they asked challenging questions of him in council meetings. None of their efforts were very consequencial in stopping his vision however, and our new council is not any different. If you think the devious plans are slowing down because of the new council, get a load of this:
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_054131235.html
KUTV news just did a special on Ogden as did channel 4. It is all marching forward aggressively, to the demise of this community and the common Ogdenite!
Sharon understands this, and deep down, so does Rudi. It wasn't so hard to see during the election, but today, the difference between the new city council and the old one is minimal.
Please don't compare me with the duffuses on The Good In Ogden! They are being critical that the new city council is wishy washy. I'm not. I'm just looking for some evidence that the new city council is in opposition to the Mayor's B.S. vision.
BTW---The Ernets deal was not a fiasco! The Ernest deal was just want we wanted to see from our new city council. They did their job. Then they folded like a deck of cards, appologized for their misbehavior and started lining up their votes behind the mayor's flawed vision.
Then, suddenly, we all started describing their "post Ernest" behavior as good stuff!
Honestly, I'm wondering if we're all not getting to be a bit too political here at the WCF? Are we changing our tune because it is politically disadvantageous for Bill and Jeske to be aligned with our view point? Has the mayor done such a good job of presenting them as hostile that they need to stay as far away from any appearances of being "Challenging" as possible? If that is the case, then just let us know so that we can align with the strategy and begin singing a different tune so that Bill and Jeske can "under cover" do what we elected them to do---Stop Mayor Godfrey's B.S. Vision!
Really, somebody ought to correct this. Maybe someone on the Council could call in. The following is all over KUTV news tonight, as anon said:
The City has one a of a kind plan to construct a gondola that will run from downtown Ogden to Weber State University then on to a brand new ski resort that is yet to be built in the mountains above Ogden.
KUTV News
Well Dian, the other side of the coin is that nobody here in the land of Zion watches KUTV any way!
Now if old Dinosaur Dick Norris said it I would get a little nervous!!
What is more concerning is that the little lord mayor's minions (Patterson, Harmer, etc) are very busy these days spreading the lies about the council running Ernest out of town, as well as promoting the idea that the Gondola scam is actually going to happen.
The whole lot of them are pretty shameless you know.
It really is amazing! Just because it's printed in the newspaper -- it's the gospel truth! Now, just because KUTV reported it on the news, everyone is upset that Ogden is going to have a gondola! Must be the truth -- it was on the news! Come on, guys! Don't you recognize a well-greased propaganda machine!? That's all that it is! Have any of you heard or read that WSU is going to allow the gondola to have space on their campus somewhere, when they can't even provide enough parking for the students!? Has the plan been presented to the Council and WSU for their approval? Not that I know of -- unless it was done in secret -- which isn't likely because of the "Open Meeting" laws. Come on; think things through before getting hysterical! I haven't heard ANY of the Counsel say that they support the gondola. And I've heard Jeske say that she doesn't think it's feasible or cost-effective to annex Malan's Basin and Chris Peterson's yet to be resort. The revenue from the resort to the City coffers would never come close to covering the pay-out for road and maintenance, for installing water and sewer lines, etc. She's also said that it's the County's, let them keep the headache and expense.
You're all jumping to conclusions! But I guess that's what everyone wants and makes blogs interesting to read. Enjoy your fantasies, but don't pop an artery.
My gosh! Curt is right. All that PR $$ Godfrey is shelling out, is paying off. Godfrey just subscribes to the theory that if you say it often and loud enuf, the masses will believe it! Remember Hitler? The man should've had laryngitits for all the screaming he did.
Why don't you all email the TV stations and set them straight?
newsdesk@KUTV2.com and news@ABC4.TV...here's KSL for when the PR machine gets to them: assignment.desk@KSL.com
Tell them what you know, what's been going on here, and what you'd like to see reported. Besides Jeske's flashlites she handed out on council swearing-in day...a media blitz investigation of the doings up here would be extremely enlightening. Do you agree? Use facts. Those reporters are very competitive. Give them something to run with and they'll 'shine a little light on..."
Some of you must attend Exchange Club luncheons, Rotary, etc. Surely you've seen/heard the publicity machine revving up at these functions??? Or was that just hungry tummies growling?
Now we're sounding like ourselves again. I was getting concerned that we were all beginning to buy into the idea that this Vision of the Mayor's is a good thing. Can we please begin to inform our city council that we don't want this stuff and that the propoganda machine is promoting an every growing fiasco for our town!
It's not just a vision!
It's a revelation!
Pass it on.
Elder Benson
I think the correct definition is a "Mushroom Dream"!
The local authority on such "visions" is our very own wanna be councilwoman - AKA "The Peyote Princess"
You can call Godfrey's fantasies "vision" or "dreams," but I call them NIGHTMARES!!
They are the reason Ogden is so far in debt for decades to come! And this new push for a gondola is the most outrageous attack on Ogdenites that I've ever seen! No one has seen this "one-of-kind plan" except the Mayor and the Geigers! Why did we even have an election last fall and vote for new Council members if the Geigers replace them in running the city?
Concerned Ogdenites, STAND UP TO THE MAYOR AND THE GEIGERS!! GO TO THE COUNCIL AND TELL THEM THAT YOU'RE OUTRAGED OVER THIS LATEST ATTEMPT TO CREATE HAVOC IN OGDEN!! LET THEM KNOW YOU DON'T WANT THE GONDOLA!! TELL THEM YOU'RE FED UP WITH GODFREY'S SHENANIGANS AT MANIPULATING THE PEOPLE AND THE COUNCIL OF OGDEN!!
You started to TAKE THE CITY BACK with the elections last fall, DON'T STOP NOW! Godfrey hasn't! He's only stepped up the propaganda -- let him know that he doesn't have the right to spend taxpayer money on lies and deceit!!
Sorry, Dian, I can't shine my flashlight on the matter you suggested because it was the subject of a closed-door executive meeting, and it's a misdemeanor to reveal what happened. Yes, that is the chicken way out, but it's also the law.
Anonymous, the Boyer Co. final conceptual plans for the mall can finally bring us something to that mud puddle downtown and generate some tax revenue for Ogden. Boyer IS USING THEIR OWN MONEY to build and develop the mall site. They knew the desire of the Council to make that small plot of land available to the Church of the Good Shepherd, and on their own, relinquished any plans for development. I was impressed with their generosity.
THE MALL DEVELOPMENT IS NOT FUNDED WITH RDA MONEY, but the rec center is. Let's not cut our nose off to spite our face in the development of Ogden. The North Street retail development that the Council just voted 7 - 0 for the zoning changes is NOT an RDA project. I was delighted to see a developer come on their own, want to use their own money to build a retail center! I call that progress! It only makes sense to encourage this type of development, and get some business revenue coming into Ogden.
The new Council members haven't abandoned their principles and ethics. Except for Ernest, I feel the Council has voted wisely in an effort to encourage private enterprise in Ogden.
As for the gondola and other issues, come to the Council meetings and TELL us how you feel about them. We WANT to hear from you.
It seems to me that the Administration is just one step ahead of everyone else. Therefore, are these constant attacks on Godfrey and the others just sour apples? Maybe the rest of City Gov't should get on the ball, recognize a telegraphed punch, and act accordingly, instead of whinning about someone upstairs taking initative and therefore the lead.
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