Click image to enlarge
We stumbled upon this curious item yesterday, whilst googling:
Ogden City, UT (OPENPRESS) February 15, 2006 -- Once again, Ogden City, Utah, USA is extending an invitation to the world much like it did during the Winter Olympic Games in 2002. That invitation was given to athletes and spectators to take advantage of what Utah boasts as “The Greatest Snow on Earth.” Tens of thousands flocked to Ogden and surrounding Utah cities to see the games and came away impressed by the friendliness of the people, the beautiful scenery and the excellent amenities Ogden and the State of Utah has to offer. Today, the invitation is extended to companies in the ski industry from Europe to come to Ogden, which is quickly becoming a business center for ski companies from around the world.It would appear from this reader-submitted article that, win or lose, the taxpayers will be picking up the tab on this:
Under the able leadership of Mayor Matthew Godfrey, Ogden City has been capitalizing on its close proximity to ski resorts and recreational areas, its advanced civic and economic infrastructure, and highly educated workforce to attract businesses in the ski industry to what Ogden City calls “The Hub.” Already a high number of major companies from the ski industry have decided to relocate to Ogden City. These include companies such as: Scott USA, Descente North America, Goode, Kahuna, and SnowSports Interactive.
The design of “The Hub” project is to create a ski business cluster and as such to be “The Hub” of the ski industry, both nationally and internationally. This is due to the announcement of a ski resort that is proposed to be built on the “urban side” of Ogden’s mountain range. Along with the resort was discussed the possibility of connecting the resort to downtown via a gondola. A separate gondola, funded by the resort owners, will go up the mountain to the pedestrian village and year-round resort [Emphasis added].
Ogden has already paid Bridge Atlantik $6,250 to begin marketing the city. The company will receive an additional $6,250 if it has articles published about Ogden in a minimum of 10 European publications and persuades one large- or two medium-sized ski companies to establish their U.S. headquarters in the city, according to the contract.We will resist, for now, our usual editorial impulse to subject these news items to our own micro-analysis. But that certainly should not prevent our gentle readers from contributing their own $.02.
Even if Bridge Atlantik fails to deliver any companies, the money spent will be worthwhile, [mayor]Godfrey said.
"If they fail miserably and can't bring any companies, it will still create an awareness for our branding efforts," he said.
So what do our gentle readers think about all this?
41 comments:
Here we go! Back in business! We couldn’t stop the Rec Center that is going to bankrupt us. Let’s put the breaks on the influx of Ski Companies to Ogden….especially if they came here in response to an ad published at the tax payers expense that ties us to a stream of publicly financed transportation and resort projects that burry us even further.
So Jeske is buying into the idea that we may need more hotels to handle the influx of conventioneers and rec center visitors. Who cares! I know she still thinks the Gondola and the West Side Ski Resort is a bad idea. Maybe not though? What if she is putting all of this in her head as a reason for why she thinks we may need some more hotels?
Don’t buy into the vision. Don’t do it! It won’t work. It’s going to cost us millions in tax payer dollars. It’s already cost us $6,000 in advertising we don’t want.
Skiing is an elitist sport, and we don’t want Ogden to look anything like Park City, Vail or Aspen. Again…Realistic, responsible, civic-based decision making:
1) More downtown low-income housing.
2) Investment in the crumbling Marshall White Center.
3) A parking lot near the end of the light rail so that we can access it.
4) Protected environment on the mountain side so that we don’t destroy our most prized possession---our beautiful mountains!
5) A more pedestrian oriented downtown area.
6) A University that is Student focused, not revenue, sports and research focused.
7) A more robust Bus system if necessary. Right now it is not.
Now I know I’m not going crazy. Phew!!! You aren’t The Good in Ogden, your still the WFC! Here is where the difference between Bill Glassman/Jeske and Kent J./Burdett will come out and credify the last year of my life in opposition to the mayor! They’ll stop the Gondola, the Ski Companies, Chris Peterson and “all the Hotels” that they are going to fill. B.S. We know it is!
Rudi--
Love the Cartoon. I take it that by "Bad Business Assumptions" you mean--
1) We'll need more Hotels to handle all of the visitors?
2) The West Side Resort will actually work?
3) The gondola is a safe, economical peaple mover that will bring thousands of people to our community to spend money and set up shop?
4) The Rec Center will actually work?
5) Larry Miller will actually come?
The difference is now clear again:
THE WEBER COUNTY FORUM and THE GOOD IN OGDEN ARE DIFFERENT. I AM ME. KENT IS KENT. BILL HAS A CHANCE TO BE BILL WITHOUT THE SHACKLES OF A PREVIOUSLY RATIFIED PIPE DREAM!
SB 229 passed the senate yesterday. This is a spawn of Godfrey's fertile brain. (That UK PR is another!!) If he were female, he would give birth to a litter of 12 or more, without fertility enhancement.
SB 229 is now in the House. Please email your Rep's ASAP and ask them to defeat this bill which abolishes Civil Service Commissions.
Our firefighters and police officers need the protections that CSC's give them over seniority, benefits, redress of grievances, etc. The headline in today's SE says it all: Bill on Civil Service "OGDEN ISSUE" passes Senate.
How did that get past the editor???
This punitive action taken against the Ogden firefighters for supporting Jeske, Glassman, Stephens, and Garcia will impact every firefighter and police officer in UTAH who work in Class One and Class Two cities. Godfrey's 'reason' for 229 is to 'level the hiring field'...well then...at the very LEAST, amend to read that every city of qualified size shall HAVE a Civil Service Commission. That would do it. Killing this bill would be better.
This has already had a third reading in the House...so please contact the following and others:
All at utah.gov......nhansen, lshurtliff, bdee, and kwgibson. These 4 are with us...and contact even more.
Pls do it now!!! Thanx.
I am having a little trouble understanding what is bad about attracting ski-oriented business to BDO. How, exactly, do we [the city, the citizens, the taxpayers, the property-owners] of Ogden lose by this?
Bridge Atlantik could be a relatively new firm from its website. Many of the pages are "under construction," and on the news page is an invitation to subscribe to their "first ever" newsletter of February, 2006.
This newsletter lists 8 new clients as of last quarter, of which Ogden City is one, and mentions a new company office opening in Tel Aviv.
The management team page is up, and some of the management team have degrees from Brigham Young University, which would explain the Utah connection, I would think.
Bridge Atlantik Home Page
Bridge Atlantik Management Team
Curmu--
The problem with the Ski Companies is that they are all coming here speculating that Ogden is going to advance forward as a Ski town with a Gondola, a west-side resort and a successful rec center. They are beginning to plant roots here because they want to be part of Ogden when it becomes the blissful high adventure recreation center that Mayor Godfrey so illogically expects it to be.
They want all that to happen, and based on Pee Wee's statements to them, they probably expect it to happen. When the house of cards crashes, they'll bail. If the house of cards doesnt crash, and a gondola goes through this town and up our beatiful mountain, then they'll be one of only a few who financially benefit from seeing our mountain side scared.
This is the problem.
Dear Anon:
Clearly, Hizzonah is promising [without reasonable authority to do so] that the gondola/gondola scheme will happen.
However, I doubt very much that that is why ski companies have relocated, or will continue to relocate to Ogden. If they are moving their operations based on that pie-in-the-sky promise, then we'd have to conclude they were being run by idiots. Which is not, so far as I can tell, the case.
They are coming here primarily because by moving here they can lower their costs substantially while still being located near world class skiing.
Take Mr. Geiger, who explains on Ogden's new promotional video that moving here from Denver lowered the rent he was paying for mfg space from $40,000 a month to $14,000 a month. That cut his costs by better than a quarter of a million a year for space rent alone.
ALL of the outfits that have moved here so far have moved here without a gondola/gondola system being in place or likely to be in place for the forseeable future. What Mr. Peterson will have to go through by way of permitting, etc. to get his Malan's Basin operation under construction is going to take a long time, with or without annexation by the city.
But suggesting we ought to oppose new business coming to Ogden because the owners might support public works projects that we don't, seems a little on the extreme side.
That would be like me suggesting we should discourage the construction of up-scale housing in Ogden in order to discourage those more likely to vote Republican than Democratic from moving here.
Hmmmmmm..... Let me think about that......
Curmu-
You're beginning to sound just Mr. Geiger!
So, let me get this straight:
1) The New City Council is "Getting their Legs" by voting unanimously for the Mayor's Plan.
2) Ski Companys suddenly decided Ogden was a great place to be. They all decided in the last 10 months to come here. If they came here because it was a good business decision, then you have to credit the Mayor for helping them all see that. I doubt that his sales pitch was limited to just a discussion of rent costs. Why did they all start to come at about the exact same time that the Discussion of the Gondola began to take flight again? Why did they all start to come, about the time that the Rec Center project was about to get voted in? Why did they all start to come, about the time Chris Peterson began open discussions about his resort?
Ogden's been low cost for a very, very long time. Snow Basin's been a great resort for years now.
They all came in the last 10-11 months in response to Pee Wee's Vision, and you are defending it!
3) Jeske is hailed as asking wonderful probative questions about the possible need for future hotels? What??? Why more hotels? This is going to flop.
4) We should not discourage the influx of companies and ideologies that promote the idea that this community needs:
a Gondola
a Rec Center
a West Side Resort
More Hotels
based on a vision set out by Pee Wee! This is what he's been talking about all along. Can't you see, its happening just as he said, and we're all beginning to buy into it apparently.
5) We've been drumming down the Geiger boys since the began talking. We discounted everything they said as being irresposible and without meaningful business accumen. Now we're referencing them as a proof source? When Jr. Geiger got on this blog, he was told he was too young to know better. He was simply saying many of the same things his ol man was saying. We even went so far as to begin joking about how well they ski! Today, we reference them as the Smart Guys!
This is like a twilight zone episode. We're beginning to buy into the idea that Pee Wees vision has legs and that those who advance it forward are doing good work.
The push for the West Side Resort and Gondola is just around the corner, and you better bet that Rossignol, Descente, Goode, Kahuna, Scott, etc. are all going to be right their in support of their good ol boys Chris P and the Mayor.
If they win, then what did we get:
1) A Rec Center
2) A Gondola
3) A West Side Resort
4) More Hotels
Wasn't this Pee Wees Vision?
Does Scott Adams (the Dilbert creator) have a direct pipeline into the Godfreyite headquarters? He sure seems to have incredible insight into their thinking!
Or lack thereof...
Carmusomethingerother,
You ask why people would oppose ski companies coming to Ogden? Because this is Ogden, not Park City, and we don't need change to keep up with the joneses in this city. We are fine the way we are. This is all a fad and will go away soon enough
Could it be? Could it be the "little" mayor whom you thought you had finished off in Nov has succeeded, won, etc? He has taken and won over your hand picked candidates who were going to city hall to reign in Mr. Mayor and restore your desire to see Ogden continue it's downward slide into an economic bogg! I love it! Do I smell panic? Do I smell defeatism? Do I smell THE NEW ERA? Do I inevitability?
Hey...worry about the important issue at hand!
We can blast the mayor (he's so blastable) any time. Right now, stop the rants and help our firefighters and police officers. Godfrey is hurting them with SB 229...see what I wrote above and email your representatives ASAP.
This is an urgent task...then back to the griping, eh? This punitive bill is in the HOUSE, having passed the senate yesterday.
Doesn't anyone out there think it important to preserve civil service commissions?
It doesn't seem to me that anyone on this blog, or in Ogden, does not want ski companies to come here.
I think we all want good things for our town. We would all like to see the Mayor succeed at something - anything. So far he has spent six years and many millions or our tax dollars and no one can point to even one varifiable success that he has had.
What I am hearing is that people are just fed up with this incredibly stupid notion that bringing a handfull of small ski companies to town is somehow going to be the renaissance of Ogden, or that this town will magically become some picturesque alpine ski village if we only spend a huge amount of public money on a gondola, and of course get over our collective inferiority complex.
While our good neighbors to the south, in Utah county, repeatedly bring in high tech companies with many hundreds of high paying jobs, our Mayor, and his extremely high paid development team, toils away, at great public expense, in their embarrassing effort to lure ski companies, with their very low employee count and miserly salaries, to Ogden.
I have heard it said a number of times around town that the current ski oriented business that the Mayor has lured to Ogden, all together, employ less than a dozen people, and that collectively they do not contribute as much to the municipal treasury as even one of the convenience stores in town. Never have I heard any one from the Mayor's cheering section refute this with facts. Never have I heard any ski and gondola boosters tell us just how much money they contribute to the city.
We never hear any actual figures, we only hear the same old pie in the sky from this crowd. Or as Dilbert says: "Unrealistic assumptions to support a business case for a bad idea"
I think Ogden would be a heck of a lot better off if this million dollar dream team of the Mayor's got off their incompetent butts and started looking for some real companies to come to town. Companies that would pay enough for our kids to stick around and be able to afford the price of a ski pass. I for one am tired of seeing the kids from my ward moving to Provo for a decent job. I have seen four go in the last year, and every one of them would much rather be here in Ogden if they could find good jobs.
What is This?!? I am feeling like Cousin Fredo, the guy who the rest of the group leaves out. If we change tact and decide that the mayor blasting isn't our game anymore, you gotta let us all know. I thought I heard somebody say that this isn't the anti-godfrey place. Where was my e-mail informing me of this. Once we question somebody's marriage, their sexual orientation, their ability in all ways, and call them pretty much every dirty name in the book, we can't just go back and say that we aren't going to do that anymore! We had the guy right on the verge of breaking and being exposed for what he is, and all of a sudden, we love him. Whose idea was this?
Sharon is right about the SB229.
The only way to kill this bill is for the Council to make a statement right away. They need to Contact Senator Jenkins and tell him to pull the bill. This will send a message to the 9th floor that the council will determine policy, and the Mayor can enforce the policy that the council determines to be policy.
The Council is being bullied by Matt through his stalling and secretive agendas.
The Council needs to let the Mayor know who sets policy, and who is expected to enforce policy.
If the Council sets the policy then the Mayor might have a little more respect for the Council, instead of bullying them around by blowing smoke where it doesnt belong.
Thanks, Anon. Here are the facts to date: the council has already gone on record to the legislature that they, 6 to 1 oppose SB 229. Dorrene Jeske and I met with Jenkins on Monday. He arrogantly let us know that he wasn't about 'to pull the bill' that Godfrey got him to support.
The senate passed this rotten bill yesterday. It is now in the House. That is why I'm begging y'all to email your representatives NOW to defeat this punitive action against our Ogden firefighters which will harm ALL UTAH police officers and firefighters by abolishing civil service commissions.
We can suspend the rants long enuf to do this can't we? Then let the Mayor bashing games begin again...first things first!
If Sharon Beech is against it then count me for it!
Hey, Alma...what are you...a dirty commie pinko?
Is Alma a boy or girl name?
If Sharon is for it..it HAS to be good.
Bingo...do you mean that if Sharon if AGAINST it..it has to be BAD?
Dear Clarifying.
Yeah..that's what I meant. Astute of you. You must be a very smart firefighter!
Nowhere on this company's web site is there anything that would indicate that they have any expertise in recruiting companies for relocation. It just doesn't seem to be in their repertoire at all.
They appear to be a start up marketing company, and again nowhere does it indicate any experience or connections with the ski industry.
Four years ago Ogden, and Snow Basin, had millions of dollars worth of free publicity with some of the most fabulous film footage ever of Ogden and the surrounding mountains. Snow Basin was shown up as the absolute world class ski hill that it is. Hundreds of millions of people around the world saw this coverage, including no doubt every ski company in existance. It was Ogden's finest hour. Yet no one came except for a few very small, inconsequential and new ski companies - Goode, Kahuna, etc. And oh yes, the Geiger boys also came home from Colorado with their Descente rep business and a small handfull of employees.
So how is this bunch of BYU boys going to lure any significant ski companies to come here from Europe? It is an extreme stretch to think that this small group of priests are going to succeed when this wonderful world wide exposure failed.
I think this is just one more example of Lord Godfrey unilaterally handing out our tax money to his cronies in the priesthood. Bishop Reid wasn't the only undeserving receipient of this gravy train. My guess is that there are many other friends of Matt who are slopping up our hard earned dollars while we receive absoulutely nothing in return except empty promises and contempt from his highness.
All of this seems pretty outrageous considering the poor pay our Police and Fire fighters receive, as well as the shabby treatment they suffer at the hands of this petty little tyrant.
Dilbert does indeed seem to have Godfrey's number.
Ogden, a ski destination? Why not? I see nothing wrong with a large number of ski companies locating here. It's a beginning, something that would attract support companies, synergy, create some jobs, get our city's name out and maybe bring in some skiers, instead of having them wind up in Layton or SLC, and other support businesses.
Entrepreneaurialism. Let Peterson roll the dice and establish his resort in Malin's Basin. Most of the ski runs will be on the North face of the Basin anyway, with access to Snow Basin from the summit of Mt. Ogden. If he has the bucks and the nuts, let him build it and I hope he pulls it off.
The gondola, or gondolas. Might be a novelty, but will they bring in business and tourists? Probably. Funded with private money, are they such a bad idea? The bus system can augment the gondolas, be upgraded to serve the public's REAL transportation needs; or a streetcar system can unfold, which would lend itself to the atmosphere and ambience of the new mall, the "Junction." Why not? Really, what will it hurt if done right and privately funded. Just another attraction, another ride, more fun for you and me. If you don't dig it, take the bus or POV.
Vision. That's what we have here. Vision, vision that could work. If so, we have an asset that will attract other businesses, maybe another hotel, maybe some manufacturing, maybe an energy company, maybe a transportation company like a 16 wheel trucking branch to move goods in and out. A few jobs. Some much needed night life. More liquor and ladies. Places for the "beautiful people" to hang, attracting others, energizing downtown and beyond.
This seems far better, now that the "Junction" wheels are in motion, than just sitting around waiting for something to happen. Sure, maybe it could have been done differently. But, it wasn't. Like the process or not, we got it. The recreation center is here, the "Junction" is here. Some new ideas are being tossed about, a little prematurely I agree, but being tossed about nevertheless. And they're exciting a few folks here and there.
So, what should we do? Try to stiffle these things, or work toward making them successful?
It is PARAMOUNT that, now that it looks like downtown is on the move and money committed, that all of this stuff makes it. The town's future is tied directly to these things, the rec center, the movie screens, the condos, the "Junction." Regardless of our past desires and thoughts we really have no option except to get behind whats on the table. Downtown can be a big hit. Otherwise, millions go up in smoke and we'll be scratching our ass for another 10 to 20 years, WISHING something would happen.
So let me get this straight -
The right side of the argument to be on now is:
1) The Gondola has merit.
2) The Rec Center has merit.
3) The Ski Hub Concept makes sense.
4) Chris Peterson's resort may be a great thing.
Go Mayor Godfrey! You've done it. You've convinced us of the merits of your vision! It took some time, but you did it.
Sorry Rudi. I'm with Fredo, I didn't get the memo that we were now cheering on the Vision!
I'm mistaken, this isn't a twighlight zone episode. It is a gosh dang reality! We like the Mayor's plan!
Sheesh! I need to get myself admitted to a good pshyc hospital.
Next thing I know, the Democrats are going to scream that Iraq has WMDs and that we need to spend a few more years there keeping things in line so that we don't get attacked by terrorists again. Hillary.....I'm just waiting for her to say that Ronald Reagan was right all along, then I'll know that the second coming and the millenium are at hand.
Downtown guy seems to have the whole deal in the proper perspective. Especially the part about "private" money being the key to make it all happen.
The problem seems to be that the Godfreyites are continually angling to hang the cost of these proposed projects around the necks of the already strapped tax payers of Ogden. The Little Lord lied to us for 4 years about the tax payers "never being on the hook for the Rec Center" - now of course, thanks to his last minute disengenuous scam, we are - to the tune of $20 million or so.
If the son in law wants to spend only his inherited money on this west facing ski resort, I say good on him, and I wish him luck. But not one penny of my tax dollars - OK?
If "private money" wants to build a gondola, and it won't screw up the city and mountain, I say why not.
But not one penny of my tax dollars - OK?
I also agree that now that this Mall deal is in the works that it is in every one's best interest to try and make it work - especially the city council.
BUT - what is this business about "more liquor, ladies and beautifull people" hanging out in down town? Yikes! Don't tell me that Godfrey is now Jonesing for Paris Hilton and her ilk to move in and make our lives and town meaningfull!!!
A point about the "private money" argument in re: the city leg of Hizzonah's gondola/gondola scheme. The caution about bait-and-switch tactics by which a "wholly privately funded" project becomes instead a public one is well taken. But even conceding for the sake of argument that the downtown leg of the gondola will be built with private funds alone, it will be operated by public funds. And it will be expensive to operate, particularly if the gazillions of tourist skiers and hikers and year-round sightseers do not materialize. Based on the experience of other similar gondola systems at resorts the cables will have to be replaced annually or nearly so. Expensive. Regardless of ridership or volume of traffic, each "station" [now only three, down from five] will have to have two full-time operators present, to handle handicap access, etc. Public money will pay for operation and maintenance.
As for the up mountain resort, Mr. Peterson and the Godfrey/Geiger Junta keep bleating "private development, private development." Uh huh. But Mr. Peterson and the Mayor want Malan's Basin annexed by the city. Which would then obligate the city to provide services like fire and police protection. It would also obligate the city to build a road up to the basin [for fire and other services access] and to maintain that road in all seasons. Hellishly expensive. Not to mention providing sewer services. And where, pray tell would the water come from to service the development? Would that come from city sources as well?
Mr. Peterson's "private development" apparently will require millions in public-provided services to make it work. I say apparently because Mr. Peterson is now four months late with the promised "making public" of his plans. Which seem to change weekly, or at least the descriptions of them by his advocates change. He apparently is now looking at creating a "residential"community in the basin.
So many questions. So few answers.
The "liquor & beautiful people" thing is just one of those residuals, a "fringe benefit" so to speak, that seems so damned attractive to an old bar hound....were those good old days something or what?!?
Absolutely, Curmudgeon--good points. The Portland aerial tram started out the same way, as a "private" project. However, when one of its stations happened to be placed in a downtown area undergoing redevelopment, the aerial tram became eligible for public funding. This I suspect might be the model here.
I came across an article yesterday which I had missed about this Hub scheme which was written in August of '05. Here's a quote from it:
Spearheading the initiative is Ogden’s mayor, Matthew Godfrey, who despite his responsibilities for a city with 750 employees and a budget of $110 million, and oversight of everything from the local police to animal control, estimates that he spends about 25% of his time angling for ski companies.
Now, is this what a mayor should be doing? Are mayors in Utah empowered to spend money on PR firms and appear in DVDs to make forward looking statements, to say the least, about how projects are on their way when no plans for either one have been submitted and no approval processes have been gone through by either the council or the county commission? The DVD however, clearly communicates that everything is a go insofar as Ogden's mayor is concerned.
Even though, as we see from further on in the article:
He admits there are no solid financial models as to the real financial benefits for Ogden that the ski industry can actually deliver.
It goes on:
Ski companies are being lured with a million dollar tax breaks if they create 50 part time jobs. By law this requires a computational model, but the direct tax benefits of job creation go to the state, not the city. On the other hand, the city has a stated goal of creating 4,000 new jobs and receives the indirect returns from sales and property taxes which are hard to accurately assess. But if all goes to plan, the ski industry may soon rival airbag maker AutoLiv, and the IRS (whose large workforce is somehow overlooked in the city’s PR materials,) as the major local employers.
Interesting article, to say the least. And can anybody answer that question? Is the mayor empowered to spend municipal funds on schemes like these with virtually no approval from the council? From what I've read in the Code, I don't think this is the way our government is supposed to work.
Or.....is he doing these things as the Executive Director of the RDA? If that is the case, then the RDA should have approved them, wouldn't you think?
Here's the article link:
Ogden Works to Build ‘Ski Company Town’ of the Future
Curm-
I have been told by a reliable source that most cables for lifts/gondolas last for decades. There is a lift at an Ogden area resort that is 30+ years old, and still has the original cable.
That's not to say that gondolas systems do not require a huge amount of regular maintenace and inspection. See: My Link
Editor's note:
Once again your sometimes humble blogmeister has corrected a long "anonymous" URL that totally F'd Up the Weber County Forum permalinks.
I'd suggest that all you "anonymouses," who coninuously paste long URLs here, read this article, and learn just a little bit about html code.
We're living in the information age now; and it's high-time, I think, for constant denizens of the blogoshere to take a few minutes to "learn" some "code."
Yo Downtown guy
Yep, Dem good old days really were sumthin!
Specially the Court Room upstairs at the old Post Office.
Glasmann put one hell of a fine night club together!
Hope he can do the same for Ogden City now that he's gone "respectible" and all.
Anon:
Should be easy enough to find out. The key factor I imagine would be replacement per k-hours of operation. I am trying to find out duration information for the Teluride gondola. If I do, and I was wrong about the replacement times, I'll post it here. Reason I want to find about about that one is it is a system often cited by the Lift Ogden folk as an example. Let me see what I can turn up.
I remember that place, Bonnie....sniffed a few bar stools there, m'self.
Do we dare to hope?
Cable Replacement Times/Gondola systems.
Went looking for gondola systems that were in the process of replacing cable. Emailed operators for information about replacement times. First reply back. This from the Nevis Range ski area in Scotland. They operate a single-wire gondola lift. [The one Hizzonah wants for Ogden is a double-wire system.] Here's what they told me:
We replaced the cable after 16 years of operating (sorry don't know how
many hours off the top of my head but we run 11 months of the year and are
closed for maintenance for 5 weeks every year).
After 7 years our cable was tested and inspected annually and the
inspection showed that the rope was becoming mis - shapen and causing
vibration.
Other 'expensive maintenance' includes gearbox and motor (inspected and
refurbished at different intervals) and replacement of bullwheel bearings.
Curmudgeon,
Another project that resembles what is proposed for Ogden is the Silver Mountain Gondola in Kellogg, Idaho. It is the single longest gondola for a single cable in the world at 3.1 miles. It has been in operation for 15 years and allows access to Silver Mountain Ski area from within a half mile of I-90. It's installation has encouraged positive development around it's base area. This system has saved several million vehicle trips through a mountain environment and allows the mountain to focus on pedestrian use instead of parking lots and the huge snow removal associated with them. This translates into huge fuel savings and reduced environmental impact.
It's nice to see a little moderation around here. Even Anonymous has softened his often threatening tone...a little.
Anonymous, Using the anonymity allowed here to aggressively forward your view is hardly civil and "Community Forum-Like" If you and I sat down for a cup of joe I doubt you would come off with all the harsh semi thuggish braying. In fact we probably share many views. All views are valid when supported with at least an attempt at logic instead of using the same old tired radio talk show styled "I know what the &%*($#@ is better for everyone and everyone else is stupid as %$#@&^" Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Savage and the rest have lowered the standard for social discourse. Their bullying assures there is no social discourse for their objective is to reduce everyone to nothing and they have the superior viewpoint.
I'm probably a hell of alot more conservative and liberal than you or most on this forum. Not today's phony Christian Right Conservative or weak-kneed against-everything-that-might-cut-down-a-tree liberal mind you. Balance is key.
I just happen to support exploring installation of a gondola. Available evidence from installations around the world shows unanimous benefit and no instances of financial ruin that you predict.
I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that skiing and snowboarding are "elitist sports" My experience from 15 years averaging over 50 days a season at several western resorts is that most resort users are way less than "elite". Most are of modest income by appearances and the cars they drive. Most make huge sacrifices in income and career to enjoy the snow as often as possible. I fit into that category. I could have been a desk jockey making a lot more than I do if I didn't decide that riding powder is a rare treat and is only there on powder days. I sacrifice financial security many take for granted.
You make demands that the city focus on some well intentioned projects. I could agree an a couple of those. I have to add that a gondola accessing a mountain resort from our city could help many get closer to some badly needed outdoor recreation. This is also a very well intentioned civic goal. Ashland, Oregon owns it's local resort. Recreation is what this redevelopment plan is all about. As Americans we have built a culture that values liesure time and recreation. If you are not recreating I'd have to say "get with it." If you are sore at the rest of us for organizing our lives around a little or alot of snow sport or golf or hiking or surfing or skateboarding, than I pity the fool.
BTW downtown Ogden has ample low income housing. Have you seen the home values. Many of our immigrants from south of the border have taken up the cue. Some of these people were homeless in their own land. They didn't waste any time on the opportunity to own a home and a business. I would suggest the low-income-american get on the stick.
As for Ogden becoming the next Park City, I'd be afraid for Ogden Valley. Lack of an Urban plan is what results in the sprawl and lack of community in places that lack the foresight to encourage more density and pedestrian communities. Ogden is different though. The key difference is that Ogden is already a city. The kind of sprawl that is ruining the Park City area cannot occur here because there is already a city here with stores and modest homes. Very nice. Instead of being an outpost for the rich like many resorts, Ogden can be a ski town for the regular guy. Hardly an elitist goal. If you are afraid that the rich will move in and change it all, all I can suggest is buy a run down home and fix it. Rent it to one of your low income buddies and make Ogden a place for the common folk. I have news for you. Ogden will follow in the path of the rest of western US cities and will soon have increased real estate values, gondola or not. There is nothing to prevent this from happening.
I thought we HAD TO HAVE "IN DOOR RECREATION" in order to see our downtown area revitalized. In fact, Boyer, Miller, resturants, shops will NOT come here and invest if we don't have A CLIMBING WALL, FLOW RIDER, and other IN DOOR recreation activities. Anyone seen any action on the IN door rec center lately? Anyone seen Miller's signature for his movie complex YET???
First things first.....hold Neilson's feet to the fire and get that 'anchor' to all that downtown revitalization built, dammit.
Big ideas from a little man. My brother, who was a very BIG man, tended bar in CA and said the most problems he ever had were with LITTLE guys who always wanted to throw their banty weight around!
Like bobble head in his too big chair. He can't get into a barroom brawl on 25th Street, but he can have his thugs around him bullying every city employee and taxpayer.
Why Good on You, Curmudgeon!
This is what a community forum is supposed to be all about!
We all appreciate your extra afforts in supplying us the information we all need to make good decisions.
We now live in the "information age;" and we all depend upon diligent folks like you who who are willing to "dig" a little bit deeper...
And then report back!
Thanks!
Bah--Humbug!
Ozboy-
Right on. I agree, any private person who wants to build his property needs to cover the complete cost of putting in his own sewer, his own fire department, his own everything---this is especially true if he builds his property off the beaten path. It is the property owners that are screwing us all, just as it has always been.
In return, if his property should generate a significant revenue flow, we should all benefit from his contribution to the city coffers for improving our roads and helping fund our collective use of the fire department and the city sewer and road system. Why? Because without us as employees and local consumers, he'd be SOL.
Its time for these big business guys to give more than they take. If the guy doesn't make any money with his venture, then the city is out nothing. If he wins big, then the city wins big--and so does the average citizen that really makes the world go around for the private property owner and big business man.
Its about time that we viewed these big business guys in the right light.
The Peterson, Geiger, Mayor junta of "Private Funding" is Full of Crap! I can't wait for it all to come out that we're poised to foot the bill for Peterson's profiteering efforts. We're already on the dime for the Rec Center should it fail, and all the hotels in the area are already yelping about how great it is going to be for their business--why weren't they the insurance policy for a failed Rec Center? Why are we tax payers backing the deal? The hotels are going to profit apparently--where were they when the rec center was being proposed.
Again---it is a simple matter of class warfare, and the Mayor & his buisness cronies are the profiteers/warmongers at the expense of all of us.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it OGD!
Let me get this straight. If Peterson builds a resort, he should build it all by himslef, funding everything, including the way up to it, the infrastructure, the works? Then, if it's a success, and a tremendous amount of tax revenue is generated, the City should get those dollars and give him a tip of the hat?
Sounds fine, but therein lies the problem: in order to get those tax dollars, instead of Weber County scarfing them up, the City needs to "annex" Peterson's resort. Problem, huh.
Hard to have our cake and eat it too.
Anyone have a solution here?
Ski bum
The idea is to let Peterson build the ill advised west facing ski resort with his wife's inheritance, then on the extremely unlikely chance that it actually works, and throws of any tax revenue, the city can annex it!
The city's portion of any tax revenue will be the smaller portion in any event. The schools and county will get the lion's share of any property tax, and any sales tax will be split up per state tax codes with the city getting a small slice.
Why should the city tax payers take a big gamble and pay for the many millions of dollars of infastructure that would be necessary to make this happen when they woudn't get any more tax revenue either way?
Any way you cut it, this idea is a huge gamble. The much put upon tax payers of Ogden need a break from all of this high stakes gambling that the short one subjects us to.
With all due respect, I'm convinced you're an inveterate moron, Ski Bum.
If Chris Peterson wants to develop his Malan's Basin property, more power to him, I say. Let him pay for ALL the infrastructure costs. That's the way ski areas have done it in the past. That's also the "zen" of the free market.
As for Ogden City's possible "annexation of Malan's Basin," I want to know who thought up this lame idea -- and the location of the mental hospital in which this person apparently resides.
The person who thought this up is clearly NUTZ.
The only sensible plan is to leave Chris Peterson alone, let him blow his money on the Malan's Basin Project, and stay clear of it from an Ogden City point of view.
Weber County deserves to collect whatever taxes that can be banked once the project is up and running --assuming that will ever happen.
It's sheer insanity, though, I think, to believe Ogden citizens would benefit in any way from an Ogden City annexation landgrab.
Right on, Mr. Rudi!
IF Peterson wants to throw his and in-law's money away...let him! I'm damned if I'll be bonded for another scheme of this l'il czar...without one hell of a fight. One of you deep thinkers asked how we can stop him? T'row the bum out!!! Who would be the best candidate FOR MAYOR in this town? Do we need to induce someone to move in from another city? (NO, not Rocky Squirrel). Who can we put forward?
Numb nuts needs to be stopped in his tracks NOW, and when he sees that the movers HERE are pushing a couple good candidates forward, I think Diety will start to moderate. Worked with Hillary for a minute.
I'm with Dian...WHO okayed the Diety's PR blitz? AND HE ADMITS IN PRINT THAT HE FRITTERS AWAY 25% OF HIS MAYORAL TIME ON PR???? Why the hell doesn't the council put Jolley out to pasture down in Sandy City, since he's also 'working' for them, and NOT for the council. He ain't working for the GOOD of the citizens of OGDEN.
How many of you can attend council meetings en masse and start telling that arrogant asministration.."HELL NO..WE WON'T GO" ON HIS GONDOLA..AND WE AIN'T PAYING FOR ONE MORE HARE-BRAINED SCHEME. Someone on here said Godfrey's looking for a "legacy"...he already has one....CAVE: CUCKOLDING AGAIN...VERY EXPENSIVELY.
New comments are not allowed.