By Curmudgeon
The Standard-Examiner this morning reports that all of the Union Square condos have been sold. This is good news for downtown, and for Ogden. Of course, it took subsidies from the city to buyers to fund down payments, but it is good, finally, that the condos will be occupied.
Less good news for the clock tower commercial building, recently completed on the same block, and still nearly completely empty. The ground floor large unit would be a perfect site for an independent bookstore, which might also add some life to the street after dark. Mrs. Curmudgeon and I, when we dine downtown of a warmish evening, notice that the street is... well... dead. People drive in, eat, walk to their cars, drive out.
Living downtowns we've seen, and enjoyed, in other places have living streets after dark. People after eating wander the shops, poke around bookstores, walk off a calorie or two, stop for a desert. None of that now happens in downtown Ogden. An indie bookstore along the lines of The King's English in SLC could provide a big boost to the street life of downdown.
Not likely to happen though since the Junction developer is after a big box marketer some years down the road like Barnes and Noble [reknowned in my experience for hiring sales persons who don't actually read books].
So long as downtown remains a drive in, drive out location only, it's not going to take off. Advocates of the gondola/gondola scheme like to compare 25th to Park City's main drag. Well, the latter is alive with people nearly all the time, even when the sun goes down. 25th Street is not, and I don't see much changing by means of the Junction.
Perhaps I'm wrong about that. I hope I am. But we shall see.
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Ed Note: This excellent Curmudgeon post has been unabashedly snatched from one of our comments threads and promoted to the front page, because it makes a couple of good observations and asks a very fundamental question about our downtown Ogden. Other readers have also commented here in the past about the recently moribund "after dark" atmosphere of Historic 25th Street. Is our "drive-in, drive out" car culture a primary culprit here?
What say our gentle readers? What is needed on and around 25th Street to change it into a more vibrant neighborhood? Will the permanent occupancy of the Union Square Condos and other planned downtown residences transform the area into a "living downtown," similar to other cities that Curmudgeon descibes? Or will our new downtown residents simply "hole up" in their new "digs" after sunset, the same way they did when living in the "burbs?"
What's it going to take to breathe some life into Two-Five Drive?
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29 comments:
Well, one thing that isn't going to change any time soon is that the whole area of two bit street and The Junction is totally surrounded by a very large number of poor folks - ie, a ghetto. This is going to exist as long as we have poor folks, and or until the mayor succeeds in running them all out of town with his evil anti poor programs.
The older generations of Ogdenite's are not going to be walking around down there after dark. The young married's are not likely to be strolling around those mean streets with their munchkins in tow. So it seems to me like the success of the area is going to depend on a whole influx of young urban and unmarried professionals, something Ogden has a real dearth of. That is a big order considering that our dominate culture encourages the young to marry and multiply as soon as they can after high school.
The other big problem with attracting the young urban pro's is where they going to work? Is Descente and Goode going to be hiring them by the thousands with big buck jobs?
And the fine gourmet restaurants? Come on you gotta be kidding! I want some of what those Geiger guys are smoking!!
None of this dream is going to happen within twenty years, or until gas hits $15 per gallon.
Almost forgot my manners.
Thanks for the contribution.
I avoid going there in the daylight.
Why would I go strolling there after dark?
The Geigers are nuts about all their optimism about 25th Street and about this city! The only reason that they want all this to happen is to line their own pockets.
The contributions to this city by ski companies are not real, and they are built upon a vision that is unachievable.
And as to the poor folks:
1) More low income housing.
2) Buses when we need more.
3) Lower Tuition at WSU so that they can improve their education.
4) A low price grocer and low price retail chain.
5) Improvements to the Marshal White Center
etc...
These are realistic views of Ogden! Whatever the Geigers are smoking really must distort things or they are NUTZ!
We need realistic visions of this community!
Hey, 1st post here! Just wanted to add that from a 26 year old un-married guy from Ogden, I really like whats going on Downtown. I really like to see that local business owners are investing thier time and money into Downtown. Big hopes for me....
Maybe the whole downtown scene would work a little better if there weren't a shoal of Ogden sharks/cops patrolling two bit street, and pulling over anybody and everybody who emerges from a restaurant or bar.
Just a thought.
Yo Ole
I too have big hopes for you and Ogden my friend. Ole just happens to be my middle name, and Ogden - the land of Oz - is my very dear home town!
Ozboy,
Why have big hopes for Ogden, when its all built on your tax dollars?
If we're leaving Ogden up to it own devices---no gondola, no world class university, no rec center, no downtown tax investment for attract business... I think that hope is all you'll have...reality isn't going to deliver an amazing community.
And I belive that we should leave Ogden up to its own devices--why should I pay for the upgrades to a city that will ultimately line the pockets of businessmen and ski companies. I don't even ski!!!
I don't have hope that Ogden will become an amazing ski villa or tourist attraction. And when the Gondola doesn't come to fruition, and the Rec center begins to flop, I don't think that the Ski Companies will stay long either. They'll slowly move away---and good riddens too.
The fact is, I like the town the way it is, and I think that the poor in this community need the investment not the rich!
Hope is for the city's poor, not for the city's rich folk who want to make even more out of my pocket.
Hope... Come on... NOt if it means selling false visions of Ogden, Gondolas, rec centers and pee wee's plan.
Ozboy, your middle name is Ole?? That my middle name! First person i've ever met with the same middle name!! Small world, or small town huh?
Well, since I seem, inadvertantly, to have started this thread, two observations.
First: one problem is the lack of venues downtown for events like talks, authors' presentations, etc. These kinds of things bring people downtown, put people on the streets in the evenings and can to some extent bring some life to the "downtown scene." Screening Sundance films at the Egyptian, for example, puts people on the streets before and after, dining, drinking coffee or somewhat more substantial libations, discussing the films, etc. The problem is the venue for lots of events like these is Weber State University, a long way from 25th Street. A downdown venue for such events might help. [Yes, I'm back to wishing, pointlessly, for a 25th street bookstore]. Sorry, Mayor, but the summer kiddie movies at the amphitheater just don't cut it for this purpose.
Second:In re: Curtis B's post. Mrs. Curmudgeon and I have eaten often at two bit street restaurants, and have, on occasion, knocked back a wee dram or two at a downtown club. We have never been pulled over upon exiting by a member of the local constabulary. Which --- forgive me --- makes me wonder if Curtis B. or his acquaintances were, perchance, exhibiting behavior upon existing such establishments as might have drawn the attention of the gendarmes....
Further deponent sayeth not.
Yep Ole
My middle name is indeed Ole. Pronounced Olee as in Sweden, not ole' as in the bull fights. Came from my dear departed uncle who's nick name was Ole, because, alledgedly when he was a little kid he sounded somehow like a "swede" In addition, I came from a very large fun loving Mormon family that was very fond of nick names that often became given names.
My dear Uncle was incidently a pillar of the Ogden community, president of the biggest credit union in town, much beloved by literally thousands, and known by no one outside of the family by "Oly". His name was Stanley Bushell, god rest his very funny and loveable soul. I will carry his name proudly, and miss him terribly, until the day I graduate from this earth school.
In any event, I too have never met anyone with the name of Ole, first, last or middle.
Hurricane Katrina couldnt breathe enough life into two-bit street to make me want to go there.
What the hell's wrong with a little bit 'o NITE LIFE on 2 Bit? Or at The Junction? Or any other place in town?
What's wrong with some ski companies coming in and setting up shop? What's wrong with the 24th & Monroe Gigante Mexicana Center, a place of Cantinas, Fiestas, Musica, the largest Super-Store from Meh-hee-co selling goods and groceries?
I remember the good old days when the Blvd was full, drive-inns were packed, bars and night clubs were packed, pro boxing, that turned into tremendous social events, was happening nearly monthly, skiing was a going concern, golf tournaments complete with Calloway Auctions drew hundreds, who then hit the night clubs, and on and on.
Ogden had a freakin soul then, people were out and about, you could meet someone any night of the week, go so concerts at Chris' Barn or the Orpheum or in some mountain field. The Troc was packed!
Why not again? Don't understand where the imagination and energy has gone, folks. Baby-freakin-Boomers....everyone must be getting old. What a pity. Where's our heart?
Jack
It all went up your nose.
Are any of you rec center hating people ever even going to spend a dime there?? There are going to build it, so you might as well take advantage of it??
More Mayor Bashing! GO! GO! GO!
Bringing back the Street Fest would help!
That wonderful event familiarized thousands of people with downtown Ogden.
Anon: get over it. Some people got it; some don't, and it looks like you still haven't figured out how to be da man instead of the "wanna be" you always were.
Better you than me. Go have a Big Mac. I hear those go good with the Wide World of Sports that you guys so look forward to for you weekly entertainment.
I am over it! I mean it! Bash the Mayor...GO! GO! GO! I'm not being facisious.
Anonymous -
Screw the Mayor! He is becoming more irrelevant every day. In a year and a half he will be complete - but horrid - history.
The future belongs to the new council, and which ever one of them will have the guts to emerge and become our new mayor.
Any bets?
My guess is Glasmann.
Garcia is to wishy washy, refuses to step up to the plate and lead now that he is council chair. He sits there like a lump on a log, not knowing what the hell to do.
Dorrene or Amy would be good, but the priest hood is not ready for a woman mayor.
Stephens also might be good, but is not out there strong enough, and probably doesn't want it anyway.
The other two hold over clowns - well forget it, they already cast their fate with the twerp and are doomed politically in this town just like he is.
I'll give two to one odds on Glasmann.
Any takers?
SB 229 is on the House floor...we need emails NOW to your legislators. I put their address on the above blog a minute ago. Pls help our firefighters and police officers!
Gotta act fast! Thanx
well, the bloody thing passed. let's see who capitulated to mark johnson and robb jolley tonite and remember them when they run for reelection.
I guess I see a different 25th street - My wife and I have hit the Art stroll (the first friday of every month) for the past year and always run into friends both younger and older. Most of the time the artists are in the galleries and more than happy to talk about their work. We start at Universe City and try to get all the way to Union Station. Arenew favorite restaurant is the Artisan - incredible Thai and Mediterrainean Pizza reminiscent of California. We love Rooster's and Union Grill which always seemed packed on the weekends. Granted some spaces are needing some filling in but it seems to be happening. Why else would Karen's Cafe be willing to expand. La Ferrovia is great to and so are the Sushi places which also seem pretty full on the weekends. I guess you have to be willing to forgo the line at Olive Garden/Chili's/Applebee's and go for the local cuisine.
SCREW'M! SCREW THE MAYOR!! SCREW THE SKI COMPANIES! SCREW CHRIS PETERSON! SCREW LARRY MILLER! SCREW EARL HOLDING!!! SCREW BOYER CORP!!! SCREW THE GEIGER'S!!! SCREW SCOTT USA!!! SCREW GOODE!!! SCREW ROSSIGNOL!!! SCREW KAHUNA!!! SCREW THE GONDOLA!!! SCREW IT ALL!!!
25th Street needs a bordillo and an annual train wreck! We'll be back in business.
Anonymous, you sounds awful frustrated there, dude. Can't figure out if you're just an old frustrated fool or a young zealot on the verge of terrorism. Better chill out. If you are old and frustrated I have compassion. If you are young...grow up. I have read you don't ski so you want to deny everyone else the chance including the city's poor who you so heartily champion.
I challenge you, if you are able bodied, to endure a snowboarding lesson from yours truly. I guarantee you will have the time of your life. I also guarantee to demystify the sport as less than elitist. You will get a chance to see all the NORMAL people up on the mountain having FUN!! No elitists here. It will give us a chance to discuss the issues in a friendly atmosphere. You have so many misconceptons. LiftOgden meetings?? There have been none. This is one citizen's effort. Gotta a bone to pick. Let's talk like civilized folks.
The-Ogd, when you get Mr. Frustrated to endure that snowboarding lesson, I would love to be there! I'll even buy you both a beer when we're done!
Snowboarding is for pussies.
Dual long boards rule!
Here's the scoop on Union Square as I know it. My original closing was Jan. 20th. It still hasn't closed. The current hangup is that Wells Fargo, the lender, hasn't turned its appraisal over to Ogden City, which in turn can't turn its paperwork over to the title company.
Sigh. But I love 25th Street and support its intrepid businesses as often as I can. When my condo finally closes I will rent it to my newlywed nephew, who is overjoyed at the prospect. His parents and siblings will come to visit, spending time on those blocks when they seldom did before. They are all hard-core Mormons, and they will love it. And so it grows. Amen.
dual long boards are for ancient farts...let's have a little race A.F. I'll show you who's the pussy, fool, as long as you insist on insults.
where's anonymous. seems he's not up to the challenge. It figures, he's all luke-warm air apparently.
offer still stands, any other snow sort haterz out there to take his place.
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