This morning's Standard-Examiner reports that the old mall-site name-selection committee has whittled the contenders down to five:OGDEN -- And then there were five. Like judges at a beauty contest, a 10-member panel of community members has narrowed 1,050 entries in an effort to come up with a stylish name for the former Ogden City Mall site, which is slated for redevelopment. The finalists are (drumroll please):Joke names? Whatever could Ms. Fonnesbeck be referring to?
* The Rendezvous
* The Junction
* Summit View
* Two Rivers
* Wasatch Commons
The name suggestions from the public were placed into various categories that described such things as Ogden's railroad heritage, its recreational offerings and outdoor splendor.
There were also 50 to 100 "joke names" turned in, according to Linda Fonnesbeck, communication specialist for the Ogden Redevelopment Agency, who did not provide details.
And speaking of jokes, it appears that Utah State Senator Al 'The Prankster" Mansell also had them in stitches yesterday on Salt Lake City's Capital Hill, when he revealed that he was merely "pulling his fellow legislators' legs" with the 80-page SB170, which would have thrown Utah planning and zoning law back into early 1950's, a dark era predating the Beaver Cleaver family -- a time even before Fidel Castro became the quintessential grand central planner on a little island nation called Cuba.
Mansell's bill, the Senator now tells us with a completely straight face -- was merely a "message bill" -- a slight elbow to the ribs of the grand municipal central-planning schemers -- just a ruse to attract their attention.
Trouble is, some folks didn't "get" the joke.
The neoCON apartchiks and their fellow-travellers were in disarray all week, trembling in fear that their socialist aparatus would be dismantled, throwing our neatly-ordered Utah society back to the paleolithic era of the 50's, when property owners still enjoyed actual property rights.
The comrades at the Utah League of Cities and Towns were particularly unamused. Their normally-moribund website was suddenly all abuzz, with daily new articles, shrieking about the end of civilization as we know it.
The editors at Ogden city's own "Pravda of the Wasatch" were also duly-horrified. They got into the act with Wednesday's Std-Ex editorial, hysterically decrying a backslide into an era when citizens were actually treated as adults by their government. This editorial was shrill, even by Std-Ex Standards. From the bowels of the Std-Ex editorial room, oozed visions of "A Nightmare Scenario", brimming with socialist slogans and dripping with dire warnings about evil & greedy developers:
SB 170 rejects the 'greater good" philosophy that has guided planning commissions and city councils for decades.Did you hear that, Boyer Company? The Std-Ex editors think you guys' desires are "crass." I do hope the Std-Ex editors will be quick to apologize. We don't want them packing their bags and leaving town like the guys from Ernest Health did.
It is a naked attempt to destroy an enlightened view of urban and sub-urban lifestyles and well-designed communities in favor of the crass desires of developers."
Senator Mansell's gag bill even drew discussion on Weber County Forum from otherwise rational (and always gentle) readers who likewise railed against the evil "developer class:"
"Who would you rather have making decisions over land use - city councilpersons who can be replaced (like in Ogden recently), or rich and greedy developers that are responsible to no one but mammon?. They only swoop into communities to strip all the cash they can, then they vanish only to go on and rape the next community," gentle reader Ozboy exclaimed.All in all, it's been a week of mirth and merriment, I think.
And what think our gentle readers about all this?
Update 2/2/06 1:03 p.m. MT: I'm linking hereto this ULCT executive summary of Sen. Mansell's original bill, for those lacking the fortitude to plow through all the legalese.
22 comments:
After reading today's article, in the Standard, are there any bets that after the dust settles "The Hub" will rear its ugly face in there somewhere? Hasn't Godfrey proclaimed that in the end, it's ultimately "Boyer's" call. I call on the City Council or RDA Board, whoever, to not allow that to happen. THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S MALL! Not damn Boyer & Co.
That's what the selection team tried to communicate, rebel. I wrote the following the night after the meeting, but held onto it thinking the city might prefer to be the one to release this. Since it has done so, I am now putting my reactions to this process here:
I am happy to report that the naming team successfully concluded its meeting and has the five names to send to Boyer.
I am also happy (?????) to report that every single name submitted by the WCF appeared on the official nomination list.
Yes. Every. One. Of. Them. Took awhile to get through.
I thought it was great, actually! This is certainly one instance where all information was immediately accessible to the citizens. (Maybe even more than we wanted to know.) But there was No Screening that I am aware of, at least on the names I know were submitted. This was a Fair Citizen Input Process.
You know, this was one of the most efficiently run meetings of this nature I have ever been involved in. Sue Zampedri and Linda Fonnesbeck had really put a lot of thought and effort into bringing this off on such short notice. I gave them the highest marks I could on the process evaluation form.
There were, at final count, 1,050 names submitted.
Linda and the staff had typed them all out on a five column spreadsheet, with the categories Stands Out, Theme, Name, What It Means, and #, (this last meaning the order in which they came in.)
This was a document presented horizontally on 8X11 paper, printed on both sides, that was 47 pages long. Here's how it went:
First, we went through and checked all the names that stood out to us. Then, we went through again, and highlighted our personal top ten. Then we wrote our personal top ten on large category sheets of paper all around the room. These categories were, Heritage, Hub, Mountains, Railroad, Recreation, Junction, River, and Misc. I think that is all of them.
Then we took the categories one by one and voted them down, discussed them, etc.
Now, this was by no means totally smooth--we did go back and forth a bit and changed minds occasionally, and went back to the document and discussed things that hadn't made it up to the sheets, but all in all, this was an excellent way to handle this.
Again, hats off to Fonnesbeck and Zampedri for formullating such an effective game plan and carrying it through. It did take three hours.
It was interesting to see the public's take on this issue. The most prevalent theme was Unity, and that the people of Ogden have a sense of ownership about this project. Lots of people who submitted wanted to have a name that was totally inclusive. It was obvious that what they wanted was a name that would communicate people meeting, gathering, a place that was open to all---that seemed to be the most important thing they wanted to communicate with this name.
Therefore, the way the team went was all inclusive names, and if they also resonated part of our heritage or uniqueness, all the better, but the theme of gathering together was really the main one.
Another thing we did was not to wrangle around too much with words like square, center, plaza, etc. We ended up by coming up with four names that I think communicated that main theme of a place in Ogden where all people are welcome the best, and one name that communicates the visual aspects of the site.
And they are:
The Rendezvous
Meaning of the word is a meeting place, and also reflects our history because of the Trappers’ Rendezvous that were always held here.
The Junction
Where trains and people who are coming from opposite directions meet, also reflects the "Junction City" name Ogden was/is known by.
Summit View
Aside from that's what one sees from there, it also reflects the human tendency to look up, to aspire, to succeed.
Two Rivers
We have the two rivers meeting here, and name also was in history a way to denote the place for people to meet before places had names. Again, a meeting of things and people arriving from different directions. Has a nice sound to it too.
Wasatch Commons
Many people who submitted liked the word "commons," as it means that no one is excluded. And Wasatch is of course our mountain range.
These comments after the names chosen are of course mine--but are similar to those in the meeting. In other words, those comments you see are Not the ones submitted to Boyer, if any are, but my impressions.
My understanding is that Boyer will consider these in its final process. It does not have to pick one. It can choose something entirely different. But at least this community had a say in it, and a 1.050 name say at that, and to me that amount of participation is totally impressive.
Thanks for the continuing updates, Dian. It's difficult to decipher how anything works in Ogden City, now that Ace Reporter Schwebke is back on the Std-Ex city beat, and the most excellent reporter John Wright is banished to the Capitol for the next six months.
We'd also like to extend Weber County Forum's thanks to you, Dian, for writing the article that got the whole "Rename the Mall Site" thread going. We've heard from numerous gentle readers that they thought it was lots of fun -- and it certainly tended to lighten the mood around this corner of the blogosphere too, dontcha think?
A tip o' the hat to our Dian!
To Dian:
To the extent you ran the name hunt, thank you thank you thank you. Not an "Intermodal Hub" name in the five finalists. We are all in your debt.
As for the five surviving names and the explanatory notes, here's my take:
1. The Rendezous: I understand the historical connotations, but have to tell ya, I've bent an elbow or two in watering holes named "The Rendezvous" or "Rendezvous Lounge" in most every state I've been in for more than a week. And if it sounds like a saloon to me, I suspect it will to others too.
2. The Junction : Again, I get the historical origins, but it seems too generic to me. WSU Union has a "Junction" and folks not from Junction City itself might find it vague. "It's at the Junction." "Yeah? Junction of what and what?"
3. Summit View . Not bad, but kind of unfinshed as it stands. Now "Summit View Commons" might work. More I think of it, more I like it.
4. Two Rivers Same objection as to "Summit View" without the "Commons" tag. Kind of generic. "Two Rivers Commons" might work, but I suspect the hoards of tourists who are expected to flock to "Two Rivers" may be a tad put out upon discovering that there is not even one river there, much less two.
5. Wasatch Commons . Not bad at all. But "Wasatch" is a name that appears so many times hereabouts... on geographic features, on businesses, etc. that it doesn't seem all that distinctive to me.
So, if I had a vote, I'd stick "Commons" on the rear-end of "Summit View" and go with "Summit View Commons" with "Wasatch Commons" as runner up.
I'll break off now. I have to purchase a live goat I intend to sacrifice in the back yard to whatever naming gods might be listening so that Boyer doesn't opt for "Rendezvous Hub," "Junction Hub," "Summit View Hub," "Two Rivers Hub" or "Wasatch Hub." Tough on the goat, I know, but it will have given its life in a good cause.
Thanks again for your work on this, Dian. Ya done good.
"The Rendezvous," et "The Junction"
Both equally lame names. Just another rehash of the lame "The Bus," and "The Ice Sheet," etc.
I think Charlie Trentleman did an article recently on the lame tendency of Ogdenites to avoid creativity, and name things by their most "common' descriptions.
The word "commoms" sucks totally, by the way. It implies mediocrity.
None of the "Chosen Names" lifts my skirt at all.
All these names suck.
I'm going to stick with my personal favorite" "Peewee's Playhouse," for now.
Peewee's Playhouse Plaza might be a good substitute, too.
The bulk of the selection committee were obviously a group of inbred Ogden dorks.
OK! How bout Summit View Rendezvous?
I agree with the guy before. The word commons sucks!
So what will you do with the goat after you sacrifice it anyway?
I can pay top dollar for the carcass.
signed,
Just Curious
josse's borito world-
Please don't endorse the sacrifice of the goat! This is not Smart Growth. If we pursue the goat sacrificing strategy that Curmundgeon is discussing, we'll be pursuing a brutal Pegan philosophy that further upset the delicate environmental balance that we are trying to protect by opposing the Gondola and Chris Peterson's resort plans. Goat sacrificing plays right into their evil, money crubbing plans to kill the yin and leave only the yang.
Ogden has achieved a beautiful balance that our new city council is doing an excellent job of finally protecting. No Goat Sacrificing Please. Animals have rights too. This should be a top priority for Smart Growth In Ogden--the protection of animals.
So you agree with Boyer corporation on one issue. It doesn't make you evil or friends with the Mayor.
Anonymous -
Your right. Protect the animals, protect the yin/yang of Ogden....don't let ego interrupt the ultimate goal of stomping on the Mayor and finding away around this downtown fiasco.
If you want to discuss further, I'll be at Grounds For Coffee from 5-7 each morning.
Sincerely,
Agreeing With The First Anonymous Guy or Gal
Anonymous Person 2,
Based on what you just said, I think you are in my class at Weber. Did you listen closely to the professor Dorsey's speech about the Gondola a while back. He did an excellent job of showing that the Gondola and the plans for Ogden are simply an attempt to support only the rich of Ogden. I relished his quote, "Poverty is the most extreme form of Violence." To show that the current plans for Ogden make only the rich richer and the poor poorer, he proved to me and the rest of the students there that the Mayor and his crew are simply violent men. It's not about Ego here. We should not support anything to do with "THE SUMMIT". Summit leans toward the empowerment of the people at the top. The focus should be on the violence done to those being left behind. "THE BASE" would be better. See you in class or at Grounds!
I wasn't endorsing the sacrifice, señor.
All I was asking is first bid on the carcass. Nothing should ever go to waste.
Come to my place sometime and try a burrito, si?
See ya at Grounds!
Will it be guns or knives?
Make up yer minds, dammit, slimy apostates!
I see. We can all work together. Sacrifice Goats as a growth and development strategy for Ogden and then sell them to the tacco vendors. Yin/Yan! You see...diversity is the solution....something that our Mayor and his miserable elitists friends don't understand. "THE BASE" not "THE SUMMIT"!
Hey, Anonymous #3, I think you were in two of my classes last semester.
Pre-packaged peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, right?
Goat Plaza, in Ogden.
I agree to an extent, Curmudgeon. There were many wonderful names. "Track 29," which appeared on this forum, was especially appealing to everyone, but it was sort of specific.
Meaning, that if somebody started a restaurant or something down there, that would be a good name for it, and one would say, "Track 29, at The Junction, in Ogden." Or "Peewee's Place, at The Rendezvous, in Ogden." (There now, Jackson, imagine that, if you will.) Anyway, the site as a whole is also a reference point for specific things, and it seemed people wanted inclusiveness most of all.
This inside info on Boyer is interesting. Do tell us more. Why do they want The Summit?
Hmmmmm. I went with my pick of the five in blissful ignorance of what Boyer Co. preferred or had said on the matter. If they are intelligent enough to agree with this enthusiastic supporter of Smart Growth Ogden on something, they should be congratulated. May it be the beginning of a streak.
Following scarifice, the cabrito becomes dinner, then leftovers. I anticipte no surplus to disperse among the general public. Get your own goat and stop trying to get mine. So to speak.
We now just have to wait on Boyer and see. Wonder if anyone's making book on this?
And my thanks to Dian for fending off all "Hubs" was sincere. We all do owe her for that.
I think these names all suck!
As Curmudgeon said, The Rendezvous is almost always a saloon or dance hall! ie - "The Rainbow Rendezvous". It's also something that cheatin marrieds and drug dealers do! In addition it is what Stu and Pee Wee do, in biker drag, in the toilet at the Kokomo
The Junction is where highway 89 meets up with highway 91. (Junction City however is the second name Ogden was known as, and would be appropriate).
Summit view is what you see when you are on the top of Mount Ogden.
Two Rivers is Joan and her daughter. Also like the previously mentioned fact that there isn't even one river at the mall site.
Wasatch commons is suspiciously close to Jordan commons, Larry Miller's big deal in Sandy that doesn't show fag films. Wouldn't it be great to end up with "commons" in the name and no Miller in the game? Miller aint signed nothin yet, and I doubt if he will.
None of these names have anything to do with our railroad history or our heritage, which I thought was one of the criteria.
I go for Pee Wee's Playhouse. It is the only name that truly fits.
By the way, I mentioned on the last thread on this subject that it was Boyer's call on the name. That was refuted, and it seemed like the popular opinion was that it was the Council's choice in the end.
What gives with that? Who's choice is it really, Boyer or the Council?
As long as this thread is about "Mirth and Merryment" I thought I would relate this true story I heard recently.
Three Utah surgeons were playing golf together and discussing surgeries they had performed.
One of them said, "I'm the best surgeon in Utah. In my favorite case, a concert pianist lost seven fingers in an accident, I reattached them, and 8 months later she performed a private concert for the Queen of England.
The second surgeon said. "That's nothing. A young man lost an arm and both legs in an accident, I reattached them, and 2 years later he won a gold
medal in track and field events in the Olympics."
The third surgeon said, "You guys are amateurs. Several years ago a guy was high on cocaine and marijuana and he rode a horse head-on into a
train traveling 80 miles an hour. All I had left to work with was a few skinny little bones and the horse's ass. I was able to put them together and now he's the mayor of Ogden.
"Driving that train,
high on cocaine,
Mr. Engineer,
won't you watch your speed;
Trouble ahead,
trouble behind,
Don't you know that feeling,
just crossed my mind."
Yes, thank you Jerry Garcia (any relation to Jesse?).
What, with all the goat sacrificing chat, what about this name, now that's it over, that sheds light on Swifts, Wilsons, what happened to the public dollars and what they did to the people:
The Slaughter House!
Ozboy and Curmundgeon -
How can get we keep Boyer and these guys out of our city or at least relegated to mere sick-o capitalists who can't suck off of the rest of us. Send'm to whence they came...Hell...we don't need'm here in Ogden.
Glassmann, Jessie and the new Council seem to struggle with what to do. They were on the right track with Ernest.
The people run this town, not self-promoting businesses that seem to be so eager to suckle from it.
You're patriots for the cause of Ogden and her people. Down with the Mayor, Down with Boyer, Down with these crazy pipe dreams of Ski Companies coming to Ogden. I like my home the way it is, and I like my mountains un-touched.
If Snowbasin so much as peaks its ugly face over the top of that Mountain, I'm standing ready to smack it with you.
Mr. Peterson --- Go away!
Bill Glassman---HELP! You had nothing to appologize for. You were on the right track. No rec center, no Boyer, no Gondola, no Chris Peterson, no Ernest!
Don't let them be in charge of a damn thing...including naming an ill-conceived project that they will be the only one's to profit from.
It needs to be considered that all Agreements and Contracts have been signed, sealed and delivered, and only "material changes" would enable the "new council" to take action. There is NO struggling with what to do by the "newbies." Their roles have been irrevocably assigned, unless "material changes" occur.
They do, however, watch things like a hawk. If a mouse should stick its head out of its liar, they will swoop down out of the sky and STRIKE with "great vengence" and a ferocity unparalleled in city government's recent history (from Pulp Ficiton, of course, but damnit, doesn't it read well).
Things at the NOMS will be fine. A little tweaking here and there, but otherwise, not to worry mates.
flyonthewall -
We're all counting on the fact that the new city council will strike with great vengeance at all mice (SNOWBASIN, PETERSON FABRICATION, OPEIKENS CONSTRUCTION, DESCENTE, LINDQUIST MORTUARY, CHRIS PETERSON, etc.) should they begin to crawl from their secretive lairs and try to transform this town into something that it is not, can never be and should never be.
So you can't Stryke at what has already been done, Stryke at what they are about to do---KILL THE GONDOLA, KILL CHRIS PETERSON'S PLANS, KILL THE PLANS FOR THE BEN LOMOND HOTEL, KILL THE ARRIVAL OF MORE COMPANIES THAT ARE HERE ONLY FOR THEIR OWN GAIN AND NOT FOR THE GAIN OF THE PEOPLE.
I like that: "STRYKE WITH GREAT VENGEANCE!" --If John Wright were still in town, the City Council could use this as a rallying cry on their T-Shirts like Jorgenson wore his "Might Ducks" t-shirt to show that they were not Lame Ducks! With Swebske though, its not fair. He'll vilify their heroic deads!
We're with you Bill Glassman and crew! Go get'm. Unappologentically, Stryke HARD!.
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