Today, we'll hit on three disparate points:
1) Our steadfast local paper (the Sanduskey-Examiner) stumbled upon a slight obstacle today, the only thing that stands in the path of The Boy Who Would be King, mayor Matt Godfrey of Ogden, who wishes to shove another grand scheme down the taxpayers' throats before he's unceremoniously ushered out of office in 2008. It seems that our beloved mayor will be unable to sell the 140 acre Mt. Ogden golf course to his European traveling mate, Chris Peterson, without City Council approval. It seems there's a zoning problem.
"The council would be required to hold public hearings and would have to amend the general plan to allow the sale of the golf course to developer Chris Peterson. This is because the property is considered a park and the plan has open-space goals," Ogden Chief Deputy Attorney Andrea Lockwood said.
Godfrey wants to re-zone our legacy park to residential. This would be funny if it weren't the town in which many of us live.
"[Greg] Montgomery said he is unaware of any legal restrictions that would prohibit the golf course property from being used for a housing development."
Mr. Montgomery apparently springs from that botched generation of Americans who are also "unaware" of moral and ethical values. As our gentle readers will recall, the Mt. Ogden Park property was generously donated to Ogden city fifty or so years ago, to be used only as a public park. If the actor won't get indicted; it's OK, suggests Mr. Montgomery, I suppose. His statement unfortunately reflects the base morals and ethics of the current inhabitants of City Hall. Oh, for the halcyon days in Ogden, when handshake deals were sufficient, and promises were unfailingly and dutifully honored.
2) On another point, Descente North America's Bob Geiger, the unofficial official of the Ogden City government yesterday sent out this spam email to his selected Gondola Cult list. It seems he's unhappy with the dialogue here. In his never ending quest to paint himself as a "kook," he's been driving new readers to Weber County Forum in unprecedented numbers.
3) Finally, we also received this email from several of our attentive readers. It's a "heads-up" on another "secret meeting." It's probably just another "information gathering session though," we suppose. Gondolists never lie; and they're ALWAYS right.
We're developing a few "trust issues" here at Weber County Forum with this Chris Peterson guy. He'd never lie to the townsfolk, right?
Howbout our gentle readers?
What say YOU about all this?
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24 comments:
I think that we can beat this project around and around. The simple fact is the most important questions still have not been answered.
What are the costs associated with the building, maintenance, and operation of the Gondola, and what is the source of monies needed for the items mentioned above?
I think that everyone on this blog wants the city to prosper and grow, the problems with the present City Administration is their willingness to provide the important information that we all need to make a wise and informed decision.
It seems to me that the Godfrey Administration has been the most controversial in the past 50 or so years.
I think that the Mayor has some real concerns, and wants the City to prosper and become more vibrant, but he lacks the ability to present real information. It seams that everything is over rated and no real hard core facts are presented.
It's too bad, the proposals that he is pitching is intriguing, but it's hard to buy into a dream without ALL of the facts, Please Matt, quit beating around the bush and provide real figures, not your lalala land dream figures.
P.S. Bob Geiger appears like a little rat with all of his Emails and sneaky tactics.
Great idea Lovely lady. It might be a good idea to have "Eddie" on call though, just in case, dontcha think?
It's also becoming increasingly apparent why Capt. Geiger had to suddenly abandon his military career path.
Rudi:
Thanks for the link to Mr. Geiger's email. I learned from it something very interesting: the small forest of Smart Growth Ogden lawn signs springing up around down has him worried, so worried that he's urging the faithful to discount them. He wrote: "Not every Smartgrowth Ogden sign that you see reflects a legitimate, civilized concern about the exciting plans facing our city." It's so nice to know we have him so concerned.
I have a Smart Growth Ogden sign displayed in front of my home. In Ogden. Permit me to suggest to anyone reading this blog who thinks we ought to examine not only Mr. Geiger/Godfrey's gondola/gondola scheme thoroughly before biting on the lure, but that we ought to examine all plans and suggestions for Ogden's growth and development thoroughly, from whatever source, that if you do not have a Smart Growth Ogden lawn sign at your home, now is the time to get one and put it up. The Smart Growth Ogden website can hook you up with a sign fast. There's a reason SGO signs say "Ask questions." It's good advice. So if you don't have a sign up yet, maybe now's the time.
Think how much it will annoy Mr. Geiger next time he drives by.
Thanks again for the link, Rudi. Nice to know we're getting to them.
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby,
Was it sooo frustrating for you to only know two names on this site? Dian never says anything remotely controversial, so you couldn't mention her as an enemy. Naturally, you like quoting Sharon Beech whenever you can.
"T'row the bums out", is hardly a mandate to actually throw any of you squirrels anywhere.
It's a baseball term..and it's intended to be taken lightly.
I know you don't have a sense of humor, and your editorializing must be insulting and tiresome to your email recipients. Who the hell has the time in their busy day to plow through all that verbiage?
You must let these people get to work making lots of money so they can help your little mayor realize HIS dream! And take a load off the taxpayers who don't want to be bonded (again) for another of Matt's give-away schemes.
It's been suggested that you get yourself into anger therapy, and I'd like to suggest a course in creative writing, with emphasis on brevity in emails.
I know you work for your daddy, but doesn't he object to you emailing your "influential, wealthy
buds"? Or, does daddy just keep you around so he can keep an eye on you?
Go to bed, Bobby. it's past your bedtime.
My favorite parts of Mr. Geiger's email...
"2,000 WSU dorm rooms that will relieve real estate pressure on WSU’s residential-locked campus"
Since the dorms, among other things, will be built on land currently owned by WSU, how exactly are they residential-locked?
"an improvement to the mountain trails, free public access to walking and biking trails on the golf course land"
The trails in the golf course don't really need improvement, and last time I ran on them I was under the impression they were already free and public. As for the other mountain trails (the ones that won't be on his land), do Peterson et al plan to provide monetary or manpower support to the small army of volunteers who already devote their spare time to improving the trails?
"enough information to justify some basic civility and genuine consideration for what this could mean for our community!"
Is there enough information, and should both sides use civility and genuine consideration, or only the question-askers?
If my illegitimate and uncivilized concerns have insulted the "prominent people in our community," I'm not sorry because naturally I am hostile "toward business people and developers."
tardust -
"2,000 WSU dorm rooms that will relieve real estate pressure on WSU’s residential-locked campus"
Since the dorms, among other things, will be built on land currently owned by WSU, how exactly are they residential-locked? - THE LAND THAT CHRIS IS USING FOR THIS IS NOT THE LAND HE IS LOOKING TO PURCHASE FROM WSU. NOT EVEN WSU COULD BUILD DORMS ON THE LAND CHRIS IS LOOKING TO BUY FROM THEM. THE LAND IS VIRTUALLY UNUSUABLE BY THE UNIVERSITY. BUILDING LARGE ACADEMIC BUILDINGS AND FACILITIES ON THE LAND THAT CHRIS IS LOOKING TO PURCHASE FROM WSU IS NOT ON THE TABLE...NOT FOR CHRIS OR THE UNIVERSITY. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT CHRIS NEEDS THAT LAND FOR EXPANDING THE GOLF COURSE, SOME SMALL RESIDENTIAL EFFORTS AND POSSIBLY A SINGLE GONDOLA POLE.
"an improvement to the mountain trails, free public access to walking and biking trails on the golf course land"
The trails in the golf course don't really need improvement, and last time I ran on them I was under the impression they were already free and public. As for the other mountain trails (the ones that won't be on his land), do Peterson et al plan to provide monetary or manpower support to the small army of volunteers who already devote their spare time to improving the trails? THIS SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM FOR YOU THEN. THE TRAILS ON CHRIS PETERSON'S LAND WILL BE IMPROVED, AND YOU LIKE THEM EVEN NOW. THE TRAILS THAT HAVE BEEN ON PRIVATE LAND WERE FREE BEFORE....AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE. THE VOLUNTEERS WHO WORK ON THE TRAILS THAT ARE NOT ON THE FORMER MALAN PROPERTY CERTAINLY WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THOSE TRAILS. WHAT ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT. NOTHING REALLY CHANGES OTHER THAN SOME TRAILS GET IMPROVED THAT YOU LIKE EVEN IN THEIR UNIMPROVED STATE.
"enough information to justify some basic civility and genuine consideration for what this could mean for our community!"
Is there enough information, and should both sides use civility and genuine consideration, or only the question-askers? BOTH SIDES SHOULD USE CIVILITY, DON'T YOU AGREE?
IT IS TOUGH TO GIVE GENUINE CONSIDERATION TO A CLAIMS THAT THE MAYOR IS CRIMINAL, THAT DEVELOPERS SHOULD BE DISCOUNTED BECAUSE THEY WILL BENEFIT FINANCIALLY FROM THIS PROJECT (AS IF THAT IS A BAD THING THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BENEFIT FINANCIALLY FROM THIS.), THAT DEVELOPERS ARE SCUM AND BUMS, THAT THE ENTIRE MOUNTAIN SIDE IS GOING TO WASH AWAY IN A FLOOD IF THIS PROJECT IS BUILT, THAT NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO WALK ON THE GOLF COURSE WHEN THIS IS NOT WHAT CHRIS PETERSON HAS SAID, WHEN A ROAD ON THE BENCH IS BUILT UP AS THE BIGGEST ENVIRONMENTAL THREAT SEEN TO MANKIND WHILE CHRIS PETERSON SAYS HE'S WORKING ON PLANS TO BUILD HIS RESORT WITHOUT A ROAD...
If my illegitimate and uncivilized concerns have insulted the "prominent people in our community," I'm not sorry because naturally I am hostile "toward business people and developers." THIS MAY BE THE CASE. I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT. OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS MORE BUSINESSES AND AN IMPROVED TAX BASE.
As to the meeting on April 14th. Just go to it. They never turn anyone away at the doors of those meetings. They address everyone's questions when the come.
While your working on notifying people of meetings, could you please let us all know when the next Smartgrowth Ogden meeting is. We never get invited to those things, and we've been told there's a meeting next week. When? Where? What time?
rudi do you think it is appropriate to leave Mr. Geiger's phone number up on your blog? I dont think you would allow YOUR number up here, or the beech?
Hey Bob
You're confused, boy.
I've never had the pleasure?? of meeting you face to face nor do I know your history other than you are Curt's kid....You've been to Annapolis and you have an inflated ego and a rotten temper.
Is that about it?
I also know that Rudi has deleted your filthy comments from time to
time. You're talking about civility in your latest missive, but I think you'll be back to calling people names anytime now.
From the comments you make here and in your latest email flurry, I don't think you like women.
Well, sonny, you wouldn't know me if you tripped over my cane.
Peterson SAID that 2000 dorm rooms would be built downtown so that the students could ride the gondola to school. Since when does WSU own land downtown?
Sometimes I think you're just giddy with delight from being 'in the know' with Matt and daddy.
Also, kid, I'm not notifying anyone of meetings...your's or SmartGrowth (don't you LOVE that name?)
You give ol' ned too much credit for being a power broker in this town.
All the power I have is courtesy of the light company and that ain't cheap.
Anon-
To answer your rant-
While your working on notifying people of meetings, could you please let us all know when the next Smartgrowth Ogden meeting is. We never get invited to those things, and we've been told there's a meeting next week. When? Where? What time?
Visit the smartgrowthogden.org website. You will find the following:
All residents of Ogden's "Mount Ogden Neighborhood," east of Harrison between 26th and 36th Streets, are invited to attend a neighborhood meeting this Tuesday, April 11, at 7:00 pm. The meeting will be held at Wasatch Elementary School, 3370 Polk Ave.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the procedure for developing a Community Plan for the Mt. Ogden neighborhood.
If you live in the Mt. Ogden neighborhood and are a registered voter you should have recieved a post card in the mail.
Sorry-
I did not receive a post card in the mail. I'll try to be there. Thanks for the update.
Several points:
1. The meeting of Mt. Ogden Neighborhood residents [one of only two neighborhoods in the city that does not have a Community Plan in place]which SGO is organizing is listed in this morning's Standard Examiner, and a post card announcing the meeting and its purpose and who is sponsoring it was sent to every residence in the neighborhood this week.
2. I too hope Anon. had Mr. Geiger's permission to list his phone number on an open blog. Not having permission first is an unthinkable violation of nettiqute. If Mr. Geiger did not give permission, I hope Rudi will take that post down quickly, or at least delete the number.
3. Am a forced to agree with Mr. Geiger on one point in his email: posts in response to his, or to the developer's essay, that engaged in personal attacks, name calling, etc. were [and are] uncalled for. It is unfortunate that they happened. Not only does a concern for maintaining common civility in public discourse dictate avoiding personal attacks, such name-calling screeds are counter productive. I don't think the Godfrey/Geiger/Geiger/Peterson/Allen gondola/gondola scheme and real-estate development scam can stand public scrutiny and intensive questioning. Personal attacks and name calling just divert attention from the serious questioning of the plan and its adherents' failure to provide answers, and so are, I think, counter-productive.
Are these people NUTS?
How can Montgomery say that the golf course could be used for a housing deveopment?
Is the mayor delusional enough to think the City Council is going to agree to public meetings to amend the General Plan? Is he going to call in the Council members one by one or two again, and elicit support for his ego-driven scheming?
You are so correct, Rudi...these people are without morals. They remind me of greedy hogs grunting and pushing while snuffling up the slop at the trough.
But, what they are grunting for ain't slop! I'm afraid the 'trough' is the taxpayers' wallets once again.
$500 MILLION...and not a word about the inner city...water and sewer lines, rotten pipes, etc.
Nothing's going forward at the 'must have 'rec center. Remember when the mayor, in full crisis mode, told us all the BIG LIE that 'no business will come here unless the rec center/bowling alley anchors the 'mall site first"????
Well, Geiger brags he's brought 6 ski companies here. Are they out searching for that climbing wall? Wonder if the Japanese are going to pull Descente out now that the flow rider isn't visible at the anchor site.
Godfrey will once again scream that NO business will invest in Ogden if the *&^%$#@%^& gondola isn't running down HARRISON!!!
Does anyone remember the torn up streets in SLC when Trax was being built?
So many bsiness were struggling...customers couldn't get to those stores, restaurants, etc. What will our town be like while those huge, ugly towers are being placed downtown and along Harrison? What will traffic jams be like? And, for how long?
How many businesses will have to close their doors for lack of customer access?
What a boondoggle. So little forethought.
Matt reminds me of a whiny 6 year old child..."But I WANT it. I'm going to hold my breath (oh, don't we wish he would) unhless you buy that for me!" And, now he's banking on the Council being a spineless 'mommy' who will grant his every wish. HE should be spanked royally. And the Council can do it by not voting for a public hearing...NOT amending the General Plan for this brat....and Kapp, Peterson, and the others at the trough will just have to find fuding in their own pockets.
Instead of the GENERAL Plan being amended, how about Peterson going with the ORIGINAL Plan? Build the gondola up the canyon with HIS OWN millions.....and see how that goes. See how many tourists jump off the freeway to ride it?
Maybe, like someone said on the other thread, that the river parkway will have restaurants and stores, to lure the tourists (thousands of them) as they take a bus or trolley to the mouth of the canyon to ride Peterson's gondola?
He benfits, and Ogden benefits. The taxpayers benefit, because THEY aren't putting out a dime.
Let's hope and pray the Council puts the brakes on Godfrey's mania driven scheming.
BTW...anyone can attend the Mt Ogden Neighborhood meeting....I was told that only residents in that area can speak...but anyone can attend. It's also in the SE today.
"Tomarra is anotha day. I have a headache. Mammy, bring me a cold cloth for mah head. All this talk is giving me the vapors.
I must lie down. Why cain't y'all jest git along? Shoo now, ya' heah?
Uh, NED.
We know who you "Are you a girl or are you a boy?" are.
"tardust- ... BOTH SIDES SHOULD USE CIVILITY, DON'T YOU AGREE?"
I have yet to use derogatory terms toward anyone on this site, yet this is the second time in as many days I've had to clarify my nickname. Anon starts the message by altering my name (I can guess the emphasis he or she is going for) and then proceeds to yell the entire rest of the message, including that both sides should use civility.
Then, typically, the message skirts around every question I posed. Maybe the Lifters are right... the Smart Growth Ogden concept is worthless. After all, what's the point in asking questions if no one will answer?
Well, Turdust, address you questions to Rudi or Dian, or someone who really knows the answers. Not this interloper Anon.
By the way, Anon...what makes you think I wrote to you since I said I don't know you. Other than what you reveal about yourself here, and that'a lot by the way....I wouldn't know you if we shared the same gondola.
Turdust...others ask questions too, but the answers don't come, do they?
Oh the comfort, the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words, but pouring them all out, just as they are, chaff and grain together; certain that a faithful hand willtake and sift them, keep what is worth keeping, and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
Truth, Justice and the American Way
For those of you who keep attacking Bob's character, work ethic and military career, I can tell you that his dad did not get him into the Naval Academy or Boston College. I'm sure he made it on his own which is not easy. I knew him in high school and he was well respected and i'm sure still is. As far as the gondola, I haven't made up my mind. I do know that Ogden needs economic development and I haven't heard any other ideas. Do you have any? Thanks for time. I'll try and read this blog more; it's quite interesting.
Let me suggest again that all this who said what about who and who called who a name and who didn't is distracting from the issue at hand.
Let's keep our eyes on the prize, folks, and not let them distract us with all this peripheral chatter.
Absolutely agree with "Curm" about all the BS name calling & finger pointing. Gee-zust X, people, what gives. There's more space these issues out.
All this touchy feely stuff is distracting..et tu Curm?
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