Notwithstanding a year's worth of The Cult's stealth marketing, monthly revival meetings, rah-rah word of mouth promotion, foamy-mouthed letters to the editor (here's a classic,) promotional CD's (and other local-floor-covering-retailer-produced audio-visual aids,) Chris Peterson and his slavish and frenzied gondola cultists remain faced with sizable pockets of Ogden citizen-resistance which still haven't been convinced that Chris Peterson's "plan" is the best thing since the coming ofPetitions oppose east-bench project for Ogden
By Kristen Moulton
The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune
OGDEN - Two petitions are being circulated to try to thwart a Salt Lake developer's attempt to transform Ogden's east bench with luxury homes, a gondola and a mid-mountain resort.
Weber State University history professor Susan Matt says she and others have gathered close to 300 faculty and staff signatures of those opposing the sale of WSU land for developer Chris Peterson.
And Ogden resident Theresa Holmes said she had gathered close to 200 signatures by last Friday on a separate petition to Ogden City, urging that the Mount Ogden Golf Course also not be sold for private development.
"We want to keep the most beautiful Ogden public park and recreational asset available for future generations," the Holmes petition reads.
Peterson has not made any formal offer to either WSU or to the city, but his vision has ignited a landslide of interest - pro and con. Mayor Matthew Godfrey, who backs the plan, has called it the biggest thing to hit the northern Utah city since the railroad.
The Salt Lake area developer plans to unveil details of his project April 19 at a six-hour WSU open house.
Those who have attended Peterson's meetings with opinion and business leaders say he wants to buy and redesign the city's golf course and build a gated community of luxury homes there and on 160 acres of largely undeveloped hillside.
The gondola, which would begin at the downtown transit center, would turn up the mountain from a base on the WSU land. He plans housing and a ski resort in Malan's Basin, where he owns 1,400 acres, and envisions the gondola extending to Mount Ogden and the top of Snowbasin Ski Resort on the east side of the Wasatch Range.
Matt said there has been "tremendous" support for her petition at WSU, which employs 688 faculty and more than 1,200 staffers.
"It offends a lot of people that it's public land that this developer is trying to get at a bargain-basement price, and then he's going to build the most private of all: a gated community," she said.
Early on in the discussions that began about a year ago, Peterson did not say he wanted land that now belongs to WSU. Recently, that changed, although the number of acres Peterson wants appears to be "evolving," Kowalewski said.
The acreage above the campus is largely undeveloped, although it has two buildings that house facilities management, the mailroom and shipping and campus stores.A 20-year campus master plan, written five years ago, did not contemplate developing or selling the land, Kowalewski said, adding "This land is in a land bank. No presumed use of the land has been determined by the university."
kmoulton@sltrib.com
Open house scheduled
What: Open house on project proposed for Ogden's east bench.
Who: Developer Chris Peterson presents plan.
Where: Weber State University's Shepherd Union Building, Ballroom C.
When: April 19 from noon to 6 p.m., with Peterson making presentations at 1 p.m.,
3 p.m. and 5 p.m.
And what say our gentle readers? Have the townsfolk finally grown restless enough to start riding a few of these perceived greed-head Ogden carpetbaggers outta town on a rail?
Let us hear the wisdom of our gentle readers forthwith.
28 comments:
Let's do it! While we are at it lets send a message to anyone who's interested in investing in Ogden. We don't want your money! We don't need the tax dollars or extra jobs! Just go away, and let us do our own thing that hasn't worked for the last thirty years!
Sigh.
It's really getting old, Anon.
This Lift Ogden myth that the ONLY choices are the Gondola or nothing is getting old. If you really have no arguement but to try to demonize your opponents --- anyone who doesn't love the gondola is anti-growth, anti-Ogden, anti-business, anti-everything, and is mean to small dogs and childen! --- you guys are in worse shape than even I thought.
The frequency with which Lift Ogden Cultists resort to these tactics and the claim that only they have any ideas, only they are for anything, and the only choice is the godnola or perdition is a good measure of both their desperation and the weakness of their case.
Well said, Curm,
I think the letter writers are taking a non-creative writing course at their secret meetings. They all spew the same venom and name calling. See Seamon's letter that was in the SE and in Rudi's thread.
We used to hear the same garbage from Fasi and Godfrey when only THEY were allowed to speak at the end of the Council meetings.
It didn't matter what proposal or idea was presented to the council...one could count on Fasi and Godfrey, and sometimes Safsten, Stephenson or Jorgenson pooh-poohing ALL comments as 'negative', 'the same tired remarks' 'never a viable alternative', etc.
Now we have the cultists' PR guy, Anon, giving us the party line ad nauseum.
CAVE: CULTISTS AIRING VISIONARY EXCREMENT
You are so right anonymous - maybe we can carry it a step further. We can save some money and a lot of time by just dissolving the City Council. And all you commoners(aka,citizens) can just sit down and shut up! The Godfreys, Geigers, Petersons, Allens, etc will tell you what is good for you.
Heil!!!
How high I jump, massah?
Your reaction to my post is a prime example of the way this blog works. Instead of civil discussion...you resort to name calling and even borderline racial insults. I am not a gondola "cultist" nor a "Godfreyite" I just want what is best for the city I know and love. If there are any better Ideas...I am all ears.
Anon,
"Your reaction to my post is a prime example of the way this blog works. Instead of civil discussion...you resort to name calling and even borderline racial insults."
Wow Anon, did you really just say that? Curmudgeon NAILED it with his rebuttle and you claim it is name calling and insults. Amazing. I agree, the last paragraph in Curm's post says it all.
Where do I go to sign a petition?
This is from a different anon.
Ferald, Curm, abner et al; we still haven't heard any of your ideas.
Who says anybody needs to come up with an alternate idea?
Like many other Ogdenites, I don't share your deperation, another anonymous. Ogden's just fine as it is, and doesn't need drastic remodeling. Right now the best idea is to leave well enough alone.
Chill out and enjoy one of Utah's best cities.
If you don't like it here, please move. Ogden's certainly not for everyone.
I'm not surprised with the response. The status quo is not acceptable. Those who act will make progress and "Lift Ogden". This blog is made up of reactionaries. Where were you before the gondola idea? Where was smart growth ogden?
Maybe the status quo isn't acceptable to you, but it is to most Ogdenites.
Face facts. You just don't fit in here.
You other haters can't honestly be ok with the status quo, can you?
Haters? Oh my. Back to the name calling I see.
Tell me, anonymous,just exactly what it is that you "hate" about the status quo? I'm all ears.
Of course the professors at Harrison High are concerned- if dear ol' Weber becomes an international university, more people than just Weber & Davis County residents will recognize some of those hacks for who they are! The larger community won't put up with the crap that some of these "all-knowing" professors dish out.
These professors are afraid that with noteriety, they might actually have to WORK for a living rather than spend their time trying to spread fear and half-truths about the gondola.
Different Anon:
Sure you have. You just haven't been listening, or looking. Go on over to WWW.Smartgrowthogden.org and look around.
Smart Growth Ogden had in a speaker a couple of weeks ago, from Boulder, CO, who talked about how successful, how economically successful, Boulder Colorado's decision to preserve its up mountain wilderness and to make it accessable for hiking, biking and other activities has been. The city committed to improving public transit, to creating more pedestrian areas in its downtown, and to preserving its greenspace and up mountain wilderness areas. And it has paid off in spades. Did you know Boulder now draws more visitors than Rocky Mt. National Park? No, the greenspace and transit decisions do not account for all of that. But they account for a not-insignificant part of it. And something similar can, and should, happen here, without trading in the city's largest park for a gated real estate development, without stringing ski-service gondolas up and down our streets, without gambling the city's future on a proposed up=mountain ski resort for which we have not yet seen even a feasibility study to see if makes any financial sense at all.
Some of us have been advocating something similar to the Boulder plan for a while now. A trolley line from down town to WSU and McKayDee Hospital [as recommended by the Wasatch Regional Council study], preserving access to the bench and mountain wildlands, from the city. And acting on the constultants' studies that Ogden paid for about how to improve business and increase residential use of the downtown area. [Major recommendation: make Washington Blvd and Wall in the area more pedestrian friendly. Sound familiar? Can we all say "Boulder, Colorado?"] Starting express bus service during ski season from downtown Ogden to the three Ogden Valley ski resorts [not just Snow Basin]. And so on.
There are other plans out there. Plans Ogden paid professionals to develop. Plans based on successful projects in other towns. [Look at what the trolley line did for Portland, Oregon in terms of business and residential investment all along its route, and compare that with a one-stop gondola from downtown to WSU with NO access elsewhere along the route. ]
Tell me that you haven't heard any alternatives makes it pretty clear you haven't looked around much, and/or you haven't been listening much.
Start over at the Smart Growth Ogden website. It's a beginning.
"While we are at it lets send a message to anyone who's interested in investing in Ogden."
Investing?
What's clear is that Mr. Peterson intends to leverage this whole "project" off the "value" in the WSU and Mount Ogden Park parcels.
I am so glad that the mayor has such a vision for Ogden, I just wish that the Mayor could have a clear vision though the Ghost town that he has created and now that there is nothing down town he now wants to destroy the beautiful mountain side. I wish he would go back to harrisville and take his wacky ideas with him.
On another Note:::
Is it true that his uncle is Greg Mongomery who is the city planner and also lives in harrisville, is that why greg got promoted right after the mayor was elected?
Can any one tell us why a project of this magnitude, even if it makes sense for Ogden, should be intrusted to two people that do not appear to have any track record of success in any large scale business venture?
The lord mayor has blown off $50 million plus of public money on one fool hardy scheme after another for the last six years. He has no winners! He does have a big portfolio of losers however. There is the $8 million he threw at the old American Can building, it is now wallowing in failure. He doled out over $2 million in the ill fated Union Square project. That two million is almost certainly lost to the citizens of Ogden. The High Tech Rec Center is still a $30 million dollar mud hole with another $20 million in public money about ready to follow into the void, the list goes on and on - all losers.
Before he started this remarkable string of City Government failures he was reputed to be a small time slum lord in town. He doesn't seem to have any other education or business successes to his credit.
Then we have this Peterson dude who's entire resume seems to be that he married the rich guys daughter. There is absolutely no evidence that he is a successfull self made anything. He was a manager at Snow Basin. Not a very big deal considering he married the bosses daughter and the boss was worth a billion and a half! You would think that if this guy was any great shakes that he would be a big time executive in the Holding empire. I don't think he is that is he? He seems to be the maveric son in law that is out trying to roll a million or two of his wife's inheritance into a mega million dollar deal! If he really had his hands on $500 million that he was willing and able to plunk down in Ogden on all these grand schemes, he would just do it! There wouldn't be any of this noise going on. The only reason for any of this bull shit is that Peterson and the Lord Mayor want to parlay this big dream of their's off onto the backs of the tax payers. Peterson and a few other fat cats might come up with two or three million seed money, and the tax payers will take it in the shorts for a few hundred million. The citizens will take all the gamble, and if there is any money made, it will be by the small inner circle of hustlers, friends and family. Just like the mall deal!!!
If this goof ball gondola scheme has any merit, it sure as hell will not be realized with a couple of non winners running the deal!
If I am wrong, please correct me with some facts that support the idea that either one of these guy's have successfull pasts and projects.
Other wise, I think we all ought to just say to Peterson and the Lord Mayor - "Show us the money!"
Does anyone realize who this "gondola" is really being built for? The "seasonal visitors" who come here to ski. I don't know of any practical use for the
contraption as far as the community goes. We are the ones who call Ogden home 365 days a year. We are the ones who work here, live here, and play here. We deserve to have a PRACTICAL transportation system that EVERYONE can utilize.
The streetcars will enable the taxpayers to get where THEY need to go and WANT to go. Not EVERYONE is interested in skiing. Let the skiiers take a streetcar (or their own vehicle) to the base of the mountain. This way, those going to work, or going shopping have their options open to them.
I may not know EVERYTHING about the gondola, but I do know that Ogden is not ASPEN or PARK CITY.
We don't need to be.
Mr. Peterson's recent purchase of the small service station on the corner northwest corner of 23rd and
Harrison is an interesting matter. The individual who who leases (or leased) ir from Flying J (or now, Mr. Peterson) has run his repair shop from that location for a number of years. I was informed that he has been (or will be asked soon) to leave. What
a bold move. Mr. Peterson has seen the future.
Before a gondola has been finalized, he has managed to obtain this piece of property for a key component of the gondola. What an investment he has made. If the gondola DOES come to fruition, he can sell it directly to the city. By then, unfortunately, many will have forgotten about the displaced mechanic. What a plan.
I don't want to be stuck with the gondola after the novelty has worn off, leaving us (the citizens of Ogden) with the bill and an obsolete contraption.
I'm sure there will be much to debate about in the coming year(s) ahead on this issue.
Anon-
I am also a gondola supporter. I understand your frustration, but we can do better than calling those who oppose the gondola "haters".
I don't believe they are haters. Many of them simply are happy with the way things are. If you have a job that is not sensitive to the need for economic strength in Ogden, if you already have your home high on the bench, if you already have a trail head within a stone's throw of your front porch, and you are lucky enough to claim a city park as "your" park, then certainly why would you want anything to change.
Maybe now isn't the time for things to change economically in Ogden. Its been said that without a significant change to our tax base, some things in our city will have to go.
Increase taxes or decrease services.
I'm looking forward to which of these two options we choose, or whether some good alternative plans come to fruition that the frequenters of this Blog are willing to help institute and make a reality.
Its a challange to balance a desire to keep Ogden's beauty to oneself while at the same time realize that we need to expand our tax base.
Keeping Ogden's beauty to oneself wins the day so long as the tax base issues are not significant enough.
Let us continue to march forward undaunted in our view that Ogden is perfect the way it is...boarded up historic homes, burning down historic buildings and row after row of vacant commercial buildings.
Time and pressure.
Ozboy, You are right on the money. While I have been a supporter of some components of this proposal, there are many things about it that do not add up. Chris Peterson has owned this land for about a year and obviously purchased it with these grand plans in mind. Then WHERE is the slightest hint of an artist's conception, architectural model, or cost estimates and engineering feasability studies. He says he will build roadless IF POSSIBLE. That's a big if with this parcel of land and if he has not yet determined whether or not it can be done with or without a road is clear evidence that he has not done even the most preliminary of studies. I have news for him. It CANNOT be done with a road. The costs and environmental impact is way to high. This development should be a testament to the possiilities of GREEN development and engineering. Instead the bumbling Peterson shuffles in with a handful of notes and a crippled powerpoint presentation. I AM losing patience with this proposal.
I've ridden on more gondolas for more hours than probably anyone involved in this proposal or opponent. I am not so sure that a gondola is the best way to connect downtown to WSU. The streetcar idea is also a sticky subject. I would be for this but who will carry out the eminent domain hegemony on the innocent homeowners on whatever route is selected to make way for TOD.
Chris Peterson had planned to build a resort on his land when he purchased it . Suddenly he says he needs Mt Ogden Golf Course to finance his project. I thought he had substantial backing. Isn't having is resort in our backyard enough to guarantee his bottom line. There is a substantial captive audience on this side of the mountains. It would seem a slam dunk. But now he wants to build homes to sweeten the package for himself in the guise of helping the city out of it's weighty commitment to the golf course. I can think of alot better ways to go about his golf course development. His vision was little more than a McMansion Disneyland. A place where the home OWNERS need never get there hands dirty mowing the lawn and all the homes are cut from an INVENTORY of TEN(wow) models. I, personaaly, would rather have 100 4 million dollar masterpieces spaced wider than 400 McMansions crowded in the septic environment of GATED COMMON GROUNDS. I contend also that the customers for these ISOLATED CONCLAVES are hardly what we desire here. In fact there are over 1000 vacant homes in our zipcodes. What will 400 new homes do for Ogden.
These events have led me to suggest a complete reexamination of the whole possibilities. These proposals have , for better or worse, opened the discussion to the possibilities of a small village in Malan's, a ski resort that would be far more accesible to the city that any of our LOCAL resorts, gondola access to the alpine environment, connecting to Downtown. Even the golf course redesign and development has SOME merit.
Let's suppose for a minute that there was agreement that an environmentally engineered resort with gondola access from the foothill would benefit Ogden. The builder of this project shall, for sake of discussion, remain theoretically immaterial. My thought is that there are many WINNING ski development firms out there that would literally do anything for a VIRGIN project such as this. I cannot overstate this fact. Intrawest, American Ski, Telluride Ski and Golf, East West Partners. Vail Resorts are just a few of the parties that, given a chance would certainly entertain us with some great video and architectural proposals for this plum we have in our backyards. They will truly bring on the show and tell us EXACTLY what we have here. Chris Peterson is a rank amateur when viewed in this company.
I am satified either way. If the land sits undeveloped and Chris Peterson just goes away it won't change my relationship to the mountain.
I think it is time for all concerned to THINK out of the shell for a bit and see what can be negotiated in the city's FAVOR from this project. If there is nothing to be gotten then let's shelve it. Unfortunately simply shelving it will reveal our lack of resolve as a city and scuttle any possibility of creating something truly unique through awesome leadership.
Curmudgeon, You, too, are leading with a MODERATE view and providing constructive thoughts. Is it possible to wrangle a great deal from a developer by finding some tangible consensus instead of the opposing parties squaring off in an EITHER/OR , SOMETHING/NOTHING fight.
Kudos to SmartGrowth! It appears the neighborhood meeting at Wasatch School was a roaring success!
The writing is on the wall AND in the Standard Examiner that the PEOPLE want answers, complete answers, and no more hints and Anonymous PR touted as facts.
BTW, if Anonymous is the name being used by one, two, or three contributors to this site, (or is it just one).....can't be more creative in thinking up a name to distinguish themselves from each other....why are we supposed to beleive that LiftOgden can do any better with their PLAN than to bankrupt the city?
OzBoy....good to hear from you! We'd all like to see if there any successes Peterson, Godfrey and their hangers' on can actually show us.
How about it, Anon (of any #)...as the PR mouth...could you publish those accomplishments for the lowly rabble to peruse? Thank you soooo much.
Last Anonymous, kudos on your great comments.
Chris Peterson purchased the Malan’s Basin as a business investment, not to secure an easement to the mountains for the hippies (that might work well in Boulder). He will want a return on his investment.
Here is a question: Do you think you can stop the commercial development of Malan’s Basin? If the Legacy Highway can be modified, I guess it’s possible to modify it or slow it down.
Ogden is in a fantastic location and is probably under-priced. Park City is in a great location too, but it is too expensive. If the residents of Ogden are OK with having an OK town (speaking of the town and not of its surrounding), you should note that the folks from California and other outside investors/new residents are not OK with the current state of Ogden and they are looking for the next Park City. Further, the young professionals in Ogden want to see a brighter future without becoming a social worker or a WSU professor. Although Ogden may resemble a social state, capitalism will ultimately prevail.
I agree with everyone on this site that doesn’t want public money spent, however.
Indeed the possible newcomers are in search of the next place with great potential. These places that have exploded on the influx of fresh money are usually associated with something like historical value of the city and it's buildings, location in relation to recreational resources and progreesive attitudes to development(Green values) We do need these newcomers. We need them in Ogden's core not in the foothill. We need them to purchase, occupy and renovate our buildings. My estimate is with the given structural vacancy we need at least 3000 newcomers to Ogden IMMEDIATLY to fill this void. There is a tremendous vacuum on Ogden evidenced by the vacant and deteriorating property in the central city. This has been the result of several factors but exacerbated and entrenched by the current and waning housing boom with it's squeaky new suburban unsustainable model. Ogden is surrounded by explosive growth. Seemingly many would rather buy new homes in towns whose city center is the local BigBoxMart. This phenomenon escapes me. Ogden has more character than any city in Utah yet it fais to attract those that have made such a positive impact on places with much less than Ogden offers.
I have made pleas in many posts to address CREATIVE ways to steer the Malan's and transit proposals to benefit tha many. Does anyone have an interest in moving away from a certain stalemate that sends everything packing. Whether you are for or against this project we will all lose if there is no consensus. I tell you the city HOLDS THE CARDS in this deal if we just force them to drive the hardest bargain.
I will state again that had this idea sprung as a MUNICIPAL ski area and EDUCATIONAL village could it have more appeal. If so, why not drive this line. Why not insist on preferred access to city or county residents. We would be giving up a HUGE city park and the WSU land. That deserves HUGE reciprocation.
I am damn tired of the US/THEM state of affairs. Who will take me up on the challenge to get something from this deal...
Let Mr. Peterson build his resort on the land he owns; I'm sure that would be fine with most everyone. If it is as good as we are lead to believe it will be, then people will get there - no gondola required. The thing that has most people riled, I believe, is the selling of the golf course and park AND, of course, the gondola. Let the resort stand on its own merits.
Anonymous, "The larger community won't put up with the crap that some of these 'all-knowing' professors dish out." Your mental age is showing! When someone is superior, your mode of attack is to belittle, and do some name-calling. What degrees do you have?
"These professors are afraid that with noteriety, they might actually have to WORK for a living rather than spend their time trying to spread fear and half-truths about the gondola." My, My!
Here we go again! Who's telling the "half-truths?" You just nullified all your statements, anonymous, with this ridiculous statement above.
You want a plan to replace the gondola, gated community and the resort in Malan's basin? I have one for you!:
Keep the beautiful legacy of Ogden's irreplaceable green, open space as is, and focus on bringing retail and businesses to the down town area. Businesses are the answer to Ogden's future! They'll bring people (hire) who will live, pay taxes and shop, eat, etc. in Ogden. BUSINESSES -- not a gated community is what will turn Ogden around!
NO
Reading these blogs is like ambrosia. What a bunch! You should all be ecstatic that you have this much vitriol, energy, and foresight in your souls. Thank goodness you're all grownups who can smell the air, the mountains, and the city we love. Growth is inevitable, though. so be careful what you wish for. I know all of your backyards are better than mine, where I store doilapidated old cars. I'm going to make it a point to take my own energy and clean up the Ogden River though, fertilize the trees, sweep the streets. You might just see that the town in which you live has potential, after I've been at work.
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