Wednesday, June 28, 2006

Mixed Meeting

6.27.06 Council Notes -- Boss Godfrey announces he has the "highest integrity in the room"

By Dian Woodhouse

Sort of a mixed Council meeting tonight, with normal business being done and also a few surprises. All Council members were present except for Councilman Safsten, and Mayor Godfrey was also in attendance.

There was approval of Resolution 2006-20 "honoring Norman L. Ashton for 20 years of exemplary service as Ogden City Attorney and on his appointment to the Justice Court Bench." Councilwoman Wicks read the resolution, which tracked Mr. Ashton's career for 30 years, since 1986, and mentioned his service to the city as well as civic work. Mr. Ashton joked in his acceptance that "My children will have a smaller inheritance," since he envisioned the resolution on his tombstone. "I'll be still in the block, just in a new building," he said, and then went on to say that he probably shouldn't say he would see the Council in court. He ended by saying that Ogden City has a capable successor in Gary Williams.

Next Item was a report from Urban Forestry. Very active department that I hadn't known much about until now. What urban forestry does, among other things, is plant trees in Ogden City. The big statistics are: 32,000 street trees, 2,000 park trees, 132 different species in all. They have a partnership with Saint Joseph's Middle School for planting, and also a new one in 2006 with Dee Elementary. They have given away over 600 trees to the public free of charge. They have a pamphlet at the Standard Examiner Garden Show detailing their accomplishments of the last three years. They work with the media, trying for a story a week, and have a Master Gardener program, and study annexation issues very carefully to be sure that the annexed property meets their standards for Ogden City. Very impressive group indeed. Councilwoman Jeske thanked them "for making Ogden beautiful," and the Council moved to form a resolution approving their advisory committee, chaired by Barbara Bernstein, for the next three years.

Then were the reappointments to the Landmarks Commission, which passed by common consent. They were: Bernard Allen, Connie Cox, and Kathryn MacKay.

There was approval of the annexation by petition to Ogden City of 2.811 acres of of property located at the southeast corner of 750 North Washington Boulevard, and the petition will be sent to the City Recorder for certification.

Next, there was proposed Ordinance 2006-31 to amend the budget that was just accepted a few weeks ago. Evidently some property has been sold---the specific property was not mentioned in the discussion or the agenda--for the sum of $7,031,125. This proposed ordinance will add this sum to the budget, and it was adopted unanimously.

Then was adoption of proposed Resolution 2006-119 determining the general City Certified tax rate for fiscal Year 2006-2007.

Next, another budget amendment, moving $50,000 from the General Fund to technical support for the purpose of improving the sound equipment and recording facilities in the Council Chambers and work session room. In response to a question from Doug Stephens, it was stated that this change was actually a result of a legislative action requiring a certain standard.

Then there was a presentation by the Ogden City Fire Chief on proposed Ordinance 2006-41. This is the ordinance requiring that carbon monoxide detectors be installed in all residential occupancies by December 1, 2006. "My job is to put the Fire Department out of business," the fire chief said, going on to explain that he meant by this prevention of accidents and fatalities. There was discussion about how this, on one level, would be interpreted as too much governmental intrusion into people's lives, but it was smoothed over, sort of, by the fact that the ordinance would be enforced first by a warning. Installation of these in rented properties would be the responsibility of the landlord, and the fire department advocates battery powered ones instead of hard wired ones. Also, they will try to get a certain amount of them to give to low income people.

Oddly enough, two members of the Council had had first hand experience with carbon monoxide problems in their homes. Councilwoman Wicks said that she had had three friends die this spring, one of cancer, one in an avalanche, and one from carbon monoxide poisoning. Councilwoman Jeske has had a detector in her home, also having had someone she knew die from this, and it had alerted them to potentially dangerous situations. She asked how many people in the room already had them, and about three quarters of the room raised their hands. Jeske said she hoped that the passing of this ordinance would not be interpreted as a sign of intrusion by the local government, but as a sign that they care about the citizenry. The ordinance was tabled, and reschduled for an upcoming work session, for the purpose of discussing appropriate civil penalties.

Public comments were next. Troy Arrowsmith, from the Ogden Police Benefit Association addressed the council, bringing up many of the points addressed in his opinion piece in the June 27th edition of the Standard Examiner, that the Ogden City Police had been treated unfairly, and that he asked that employee negotiations be reopened.

Chris Peterson then spoke, stating that he was here tonight to attempt to "kick off" the development process. He stated that he was in the middle of a very detailed proposal, and needed a gesture of good faith from Ogden City in order to continue with the process. He would have to spend about $100,000, and getting the proposal together would take several more weeks, "maybe four or five, but I need good faith from you in order to take that next step."

Then came the Ogden City police men and women. They were articulate, eloquent, and sincere. The theme was the same--that they were not being treated fairly, and that they wished the city to re-open the negotiations. One policewoman stated that she was an eleven year veteran and took home $2,200 a month. She had always worked other jobs, pulled overtime, done whatever it took to be able to support herself and her family. She mentioned that most homes had two working adults, but hers did not, and that all the police wanted was to be able to pay their bills and support their families. She stated that the breakdown in negotiations was the city's fault, since it would not negotiate but kept repeating the same offer, and ended by saying, "Please reconsider. It's only fair."

A policeman mentioned what he termed "a disconnect," comparing the fact that the city had shown itself to be highly interested in Peterson's development proposal, and yet did not wish to pay public safety a decent wage.

During these comments, one policeman questioned the integrity of the administration. This led to a speech by Mayor Godfrey after the comments closed, in which he stated that he was an individual of the utmost integrity. "My integrity is... higher than anybody's in this room," he stated, and then went on to say that his staff is also honest and has "absolute integrity." He ended by inviting those present on the police force to discuss this issue with him after the meeting.

They did. The discussion took place in one area of the council chambers after the council had gone into closed executive session, "for the purpose of discussing pending or reasonably imminent litigation." The rest of us there gave them their privacy.

Before the meeting closed, Councilwoman Jeske stated that she hoped a negotiating system could be worked out "that would be satisfactory to all of us."

Brandon Stephenson also spoke to the police issue, stating that there had been long discussions over the course of the budget because they had limited resources. He also said that he thought it was important to state that although a Cost Of Living Allowance, (COLA) would have been preferable, in that contributions were made to the state retirement fund, etc., in order to do this, the Council would have had to have "ongoing funds" at its disposal. What it had were one time funds, and this is why it offered a bonus instead of a COLA.

Editorial comment: Something wrong with that picture. I have just finished stating that the city just amended the budget for this $7 million cash infusion from a property sale. It also amended the budget to take $50,000 out of the general fund to work on its sound system. This business about needing ongoing funds, if correct, is really not too reasonable, as it seems, from what I have just written, that it is possible to get money for things when needed, and it is possible to sell property and get money there, and furthermore, there are always ongoing funds from tax dollars and fees. I really don't understand that reasoning at all.

Update 6/28/06 8:14 a.m. MT: Standard-Examiner Ace Reporter Scott Schwebke's story on last night's council meeting is now available online, and can be viewed via this link.

Also, many of us who were in attendance were delighted to meet and greet Salt Lake Tribune reporter Cathy McKittrick (formerly of the Std-Ex,) as she appeared in the council chambers to cover last night's council event (filling in for Kristen Moulton who normally covers the "Ogden beat.") She was always a local favorite when she was covering Ogden politics for the Std-Ex. And judging from last night's "fond reunion," it's obvious that she still has a local fan club. So as an added bonus to Dian's report, we're linking to her article, which was printed in this morning's SLTrib edition.


The Lovely Jennifer said...


But did Matthew really say out loud that his integrity is higher than anyone else in the room?!?!



I'm glad I was sitting down while reading the paper this am. says integrity is -

Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.


The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

This would imply a lack of waffling and secrecy - which characteristics in the mayor we have all witnessed and read about.

I hope he never purports anything about his level of humility. WOW

sharon said...

Thank you for a wonderful report, Dian. You always include detail. That is something Schwebke has never mastered.

How disgraceful that the police, once again, came begging for help. I'm afraid we're going to see a 'blue comet' as the cops streak out of Ogden to other communities where their efforts and sacrifice are respected and appreciated.

Yes! $7,000,000. is a lot of money that should be considered for proper wages. Surely, these monies are invested and aren't just lying stagnant?

And Godfrey had the audacity to say his integrity is higher than anyone else's in the room???? The whole Council should have stood and left the room. Left the little joke sitting there in his integrity.

I understand that West Liberty Foods needs more power if they locate in Ogden. Would some of that seven mil. help to keep West Liberty Foods here?

Surely, our priorities are skewed indeed, if investing in fire and law enforcement personnel and a business that will generate 625 jobs take a back seat to car allowances, and car insurance for administration, memberships for city employees at Gold's Gym, and pushing that damned gondola scheme.

WHAT was Peterson's purpose at the CC last nite? What was new?

BTW had to go to the Weber County site to find out who won the commission race! What a newspaper! But, Peterson made it to the front page. Disgraceful.

dian said...

Regarding the integrity comment--that is what I have written down. I mentioned it while writing the meeting up to another who had attended and he remembered it also. This was near the end of the meeting in administrative comments, and I would imagine the tape will be online shortly on the city web page.

Regarding Peterson's comments: There is no new proposal. He is working on one, and needs to spend about $100,000 to do it correctly. What he was asking for was a sign of good faith from the Council. Although he did not explicitly spell this out, I interpreted this to mean that he wished the Council to sign a development agreement, as had been asked for last week.

My opinion on this last is that the city, with all the advertising, meetings, and promotion about how good this would be for Ogden, has shown enough good faith in this matter already.

But that's just me.

Curmudgeon said...


First rate report. Thank you. Of course, it will take me a little time to recover from Mayor Godfrey's claim that he considers his integrity to be one of his most treasured assets. Once I stop laughing, I think I'll file it in the same place as claims that "this used car was only driven by a little old lady to church and back once a week" and "the US Senate is the greatest deliberative body in the world" and "Wonder Bread builds strong bodies eight ways!"

Hizzonah certainly wins the Chutzpah award for this week.

A query, if anyone out there knows: what are the legal consequences of the city signing a development agreement with someone? Is it a binding agreement that would, by way of example, remove the Council's ability to deny, say, a zoning change or alteration in the Ogden General Plan that the development agreement implies must or should be made? Would the city be at some legal and financial risk if, having signed a development agreement, it subsequently decided not to proceed? I don't understand the legal cosequences of development agreements signed by the city [the mayor? the council? both? Who has the authority to sign one?] and am hoping someone on WC forum does and can explain them.

Thanks again, Dian.

Anony said...

The Lord Mayor's statement regarding his personal integrity proves what we have known all along.

He sees things the way he wants to see them and not as they really are.

ARCritic said...

When doing budgets there is one time money and ongoing money.

Ongoing money is money like taxes, fees, rents and such. One time money is things like any surplus from a previous year sales of land or other property and any other revenue where the source is not going to be a long term stream.

When determining expenditures you want to match up the ongoing expenditures such as wages and benefits for employees, operations and maintenance of buildings and departments and such with the ongoing revenue streams. One time expenditures like a one time bonus to employees or the cost of building a building or most other capital outlays can be paid for with either one time money or ongoing funds because next years expenditures won't be effected by this one time expense so if the money is not there it is OK.

That is why there was the proposal to give the employees a one time 2% bonus. That does not cause a continuing expense. Next years wages won't include the 2% bonus amount paid this year.

So if you sell a piece of property for $7M you would not want to use that $7M to increase wages because then next year you will have to come up with that $7M as well as any increase you grant next year and you probably won't have another $7M piece of property to sell to generate that extra money.

While I don't doubt that Dian got the quote from the mayor correct, if that is word for word what he said, it was a little stupid. Obviously what he should have said was something more along the lines of "My integrity is as high as anyone here." to say it was the highest in the room is a bit arrogant. Which is one criticism that is levelled quite often here. And If that is what he said, and the Std. article has something very similar, he seems to be deserving of that criticism.

sharon said...

The Emporer's New Clothes...Who knew that Godfrey would be the living embodiment of a fairy tale?

However...the Council could have mentioned that the emporer was nekkid by leaving the room...en masse.

I understand there was no comment to or about Peterson's request to the council.

Is that true, Dian? If so, kudos to the council.

They should not sign one bloody peice of paper with this shyster.

Chris: show us the money! Show us the 'plans'. Tell us if your spending money is contingent on the wife's good will toward you?
Tell us why the concept has changed from YOU building YOUR gondola to Malan's.

WHY does Ogden need a downtown 'leg'? Who the blazes will ride the thing to WSU? Not enough to make it a money maker.

How will a gondola gliding over Harrison help businesses on the ground? Hmmmm? signed alliances with Peterson. This is Godfrey's MO which he has honed to a fine art.

Publicity, duplicity, publicity, duplicity and the rabble begin to believe it's a done deal and won't cost US a cent!

Anonymous too said...

Several somewhat unrelated musings:

It's too bad the power failure didn't occur just as our Mayor finished bragging about his integrity.

I guess the firefighters weren't at the CC meeting to plead their cause because they were busy making sure the hillside fire was put out and our homes were safe.

CP wants to have assurances from the City Council before spending $100K on necessary studies? Considering the supposed value of the total project and his purported resources, this is chickenfeed. How many Hummer equivalents is this?

Feasibility studies should have been completed long ago before all the public hoopla. The phrase that comes to mind is "put up or shut up", not "I will spend this money but want assurances first."

Curmudgeon said...


I wondered as well about Peterson's claim that before he sinks $100K into preparing various studies, etc as part of his proposal, he wants a prior commitment of some sort from the Council.

The man who claims he is personally going to invest $500 million in Ogden's future wants a prior committment before he spends $100K on feasibility studies? Not to mention that if he has not already commissioned those studies, if they are not already completed or nearly so, on what basis could the council possibly commit to anything?

This gets curiouser and curiouser as it goes on....

I have no doubt it may well cost Mr. Peterson $100K to have a detailed proposal drawn up, vetted by his attornies, etc. This is usually known I believe as a "cost of doing business." If he is unwilling to commit that amount with out a prior committment of some sort from the Council, then it seems fair to at least raise the question of both his committment and ability to carry to successful completion the much much larger investments he claims he wants to make.

Anonymous said...

Nice job Dian, pretty dang accurate on the report.
Sharon, The Standard is what the Standard is....nothing more or less. The info on the Weber County race was on the front page..far left. It was small..but with my glasses, even I could read it. I didn't see one police person beg or grovel. They stated their case, and let the council and administration know that they were unhappy with the outcome. They, for the most part were polite and professional.
As I heard it, Matt said his Integrity was as high or as high as anyone in the room. He was called names etc., and I suppose if it had been me I would have stood up for myself as well. (Name calling and bashing never has been a real high moral way of getting a message across)
What Chris said was, he would like the City council to look at the detailed proposal he will bring to them in the next 4 or 5 weeks, openly and make the kinds of suggestions that would lead to a letter of intent. Guess we will see what the document has to say when it gets here. I believe he is spending 100,000 to 200,000 of his money to do the research. He must be serious.

I never have responed on a blog, thought I'd give it a try, thanks

Anonymous said...

opps.. I met to say..He said as high or higher than anyone in the room..old eyes..hard to see what I typed..

Anonymous said...

Shyster, n. inf. dishonest lawyer, professionally disreoutable.

Pretty strong words for someone you said in the last council meeting that you didn't know. Is Chris really all this? Give us some facts...real data...not just emotionaly charged rhetoric, please

Curmudgeon said...


You wrote: Thank you for a wonderful report, Dian. You always include detail. That is something Schwebke has never mastered.

I have been critical of Mr. Schwebke's reporting here before and probably will be again, but on this, I think you may be criticizing him unfairly. The SE policy is not to try to do complete coverage of all matters that come before the Council, but instead to select the most significant matter before the Council on any given night, or perhaps the two most significant occasionally, and write a story about it. Later in the week other stories based on other Council actions may run. That decision about how to report Council meetings is an editorial decision. It's not Mr. Schwebke's call.

We are of course free to disagree with that decision, and to prefer [as I would] a more thorough morning-after report of Council actions, but complaints about the SE policy should be directed at the editors who decide news coverage policy [presumably the news editor?], and not at, in this case, Mr. Schwebke. As I said, it's not his call.

One other thing to consider about the level of detail in the SE coverage. Dian has the luxury of more or less unlimited space to report on Council meetings. [Thank you, Rudi, again. Providing this venue for reports like Dian's on the Council meetings is a valuable public service.] Mr. Schwebke does not. Generally, the SE's next day's edition is composed by about 4:30 or so each afternoon. Space is reserved for stories coming in later... sports, sometimes, or evening Council Meetings. So many column inches are saved for each of the late developing stories. So Mr. Schewebke [or any reporter coving something happening later than about 4:30 ] is simply told he or she has x column inches. His story has to fit that space. There is a limit to the range and detail that can be included. Again, seems hard to dump on Schwebke for space limits he is working under. Fair's fair.

I've known many print reporters over the years in several cities, and every one of them, without exception, has complained that his paper never gave him enough space to report as he wanted to. Every one. I presume Mr. Schewbke too would like more room for his stuff.

What does surprise me is Mr. Schwebke's apparent lack of interest in asking follow-up questions, particularly of public officials. But he shares that, I've noticed, with other SE reporters. But in reporting Council stories, I'm pretty sure he's working under an editorial policy over which he has no say, and under space limits he must conform to.

dian said...

Regarding the integrity quote, thank you, Lar. As I said earlier, I myself had a problem with it and asked someone else who remembered it. But your insertion of "as high or higher..." I think very possibly correct.

I have e-mailed the blogmeister with a request that the quote be corrected to read: "My integrity is... higher than anybody's in this room," until someone can get to the tape and transcribe the real one if this becomes an issue.

As always, I welcome these corrections.

ARCritic said...

If I were CP I would probably ask for what he asked for last night. There has been a lot of discussion about his proposal which he really hasn't nailed down yet with engineering specifics.

I think he wanted to gage the councils openness to the idea. Up until last week SGO had not come out against the idea of his proposal and even now they seem to be saying that from what they have heard they are not inclined to support it but that it might be possible with enough good information that there might be a posibility that they could be convinced.

I think CP wanted to know where the council was. Were they inclined against the idea like SGO in which case he would be fighting a significant uphill battle or were they open to discussion in which case if he presents a good proposal with i's dotted and t's crossed showing the win/win for everyone then the council could be persuaded.

I know if I was about to spend 100-200K I would want to know if I was going to have to win over people predisposed against my idea or people who had not made a decision one way or another and were fully open to the idea.

And by fully open I don't me predisposed in favor simply not predisposed against. I know two different people, one who was invited to one of the mayor's meetings and one who attended one of the public Lift Ogden meetings and both asked some pointed questions. Both said they were immediately labled naysayers. Neither felt going in that they were against the idea but both said there were lots of holes in the data that they wanted filled prior to making a decision one way or another. Both ended up saying that without more and better information they would have a very hard time supporting it. Neither said there was no way they could support it but I would bet that is how the mayor and the LO people thought of my friends.

It is unfortunate that these two people were treated this way. The questions they asked were fairly basic economic and development related question for which the answers were either unknown or not forth coming and they were labelled as naysayers because they dared ask the questions.

I would wonder if there would be a way to structure any possible sale of the MOGC and surrounding area so that if the ultimate development does not actually go through that any profit from the development of the 400 luxury houses could be split with the city and that the MOGC could revert back to the city. I would hate to see things end up going so far as CP making a couple hunderd million bucks on the development of a luxury housing development and then either not having enough money/investors to actually build the Malan Basin project and then just walking away with the profit.

MJ said...

A couple of points on the CC meeting last night:

It seems a bit disengenuous that Mr.Peterson would be uncertain about where the council sits concerning his, so far unsubmitted and unknown, proposal. The mayor has been working the council over for some time on this issue. He has been overheard several times stating that he has the council 4 to 3 in favor of this. That certainly plays into Gondola booster's continued stirring of this pot. He has said that "the two women" would not vote for it no matter what, and that Garcia wouldn't either. That of course leaves Mssrs: Glassman, Stephenson, Stevens and Safsten as council members that the Mayor considers to be in his, and Mr. Peterson's, pocket.

I also find it very curious that the city can re-open the budget for the whims of the Mayor, but cannot do anything about our public safety people's low pay because the process has been closed already.

Last, I think the quote of the night was when the old guy got up and told the council and the mayor in no uncertain terms that there was not one police officer or fire fighter in the city that was not more valuable and important to the citizens of Ogden than the Mayor and the "whole circle of empty suits that he surrounds himself with!" By that I assumed that he meant Patterson, Harmer, Brown, etc. that makes up the Mayor's development team, and that seems so far to have had such little success in doing projects that succeed.

A true statement if there ever was one!

Also was very amused to hear the Mayor proclaim that his integrity was as high or higher than any one else's in the room. I noticed a lot of people suppressing laughter over that line. As someone wrote on this site a while back: The mayor really ought to be writing comedy for Jon Steward. This is a rare talent for surreal comedy that he has.

The Lovely Jennifer said...

You know, fellow bloggers and bloggees, even IF hizzonah really DID say he holds himself to have a level of integrity "... as high or higher than ... anyone in [the] room ...", he STILL needs a lesson in humility. He should inherently and personally feel ethically and morally bound to refrain from feeling or claiming superiority over those he serves.

Anonymous said...

I still think its funny how no one here wants to talk about the poll the standard has about the Gondola. More people want it to happen than those who dont!! Say something about it! Find an excuse for those numbers! Say polls dont make a difference when everyone flipped out when the previous poll results werent released! Say it because you hate Mayor Godfrey or you were offended by him or someone! Not because you are interested in helping Ogden!! Complain when you dont benefit from the Gondola coming to Ogden because you wouldnt recognize opportunity if it smacked you in the head!!

ArmySarge said...

Anonymous said...that is absolutely ridiculous!! You talk as if the SE poll is somewhere near accurate.....dream on

Anonymous said...

Let’s talk about the pole. First, let’s pretend that the pole gives an accurate view of residents feelings about the Gondola. Second, let’s assume that the pole showed an overwhelming majority didn’t want the Gondola. Do you for a second think that Godfrey, or anyone else on the council for that matter, would throw in the towel and drop the subject based on the pole results? Probably not. I find it amusing that you would rationalize the validity of the Gondola proposal, or it’s supposed support, based on a few percentage points in a pole. Even if the pole showed 100% support, it still doesn’t mean that the Gondola is feasible. We will have to wait for CP to fill in the details before we can make that determination. As for the LO pole that wasn’t released, I think we all know why!

Curmudgeon said...

Anon on Polls:

You apparently haven't been coming here very often. Or your would have seen people discussing that poll, and cautioning against reading much into it when it was showing a nearly 2-1 majority against. You would have seen me pointing out that while it's possible the current totals are the result of a LO campaign to load the results, we'd also have to consider the possibility that the former top-heavy-against totals were the result of an SGO campaign to do the same. The poll gets relatively little discussion precisely because it is not a scientific poll, and so cannot be taken reasonably [by either side in the gondola debate] as an accurate reflection of public opinion overall.

The simple fact is that what you claim is not true. "Everybody" did not "flip out" when the early totals were running the other way. But I understand that accuracy and fact are not something the Mayor's syncophants are much acquainted with or interested in. Hell, you people are still telling folks the gondola will connect with Snow Basin Ski Resort, so you will excuse most of us if we don't take what else you say too seriously.

The Lovely Jennifer said...


What poll? And where is it?

Let me check it & see if it's worth talking about?

(btw, most online or journalistic polls are NOT scientific, and should not be used as such in ANY sort of study. They are just popularity polls, and are biased in more ways than one.)

Curmudgeon said...


You can find the SE poll here.

Dotty said...

The so called poll is somewhat of a joke.

It can easily be rigged I know, I have been doing it myself just to see how easy it would be.

I have voted about 20 times over the last several weeks!

My purpose is not to slant the poll one way or the other, but to see how valid it might be. To that end, I have alternated my 20 votes, 10 for, and 10 against.

I do believe in the validity of scientific polls, but obviously this is far from that. Beside, if the Mayor's team wants to put stock in this poll, it begs the question of why they didn't put any currency on the SE polls of the last two years that showed a very large majority of people in Ogden that were against the Rec Center?

What is truth said...

Here is a quote from yours truly:

“If you have to declare your own integrity,
then it becomes apparent that others must of had a hard time finding it.”

Anonymous said...

"My integrity is... higher than anybody's in this room,"

I was shocked to hear those words, I mean shocked because the last time I hear these exact word came from the mouth of a Lt. Col. Oliver North, USMC while testifying under oath by those questioning his Iran/contra dealing. These were his exact words that he gave the congressman and women, along with all of the citizens and reporters in that crowded room......

How did Mr. Godfrey, he himself know that he had more integrity than everyone in that room...could he look into everyone soul and know with in a split second that he was by far the only one in this room with this close to flawless character trait?
Who does he think his is GOD!!! or at lease have this ability.

Does the word arrogant and self righteous mean anything?

Mutch Noyes said...

This is one bizarre story. A year of hype and anticipation and various development scenarios, cultivation of extreme community divisiveness and we are now at the point of a request to the city council for a "gesture of good faith" so he can feel comfortable spending 100,000 out of pocket to refine his plan enough for serious consideration. Apalling. Curmudgeon is right on the money that is a cost of doing business. This is insulting. How much good faith gesture from the city does he need? He has the mayor clearly as top cheerleader, many local businessmen, plenty of lawnsign support... it is time for HIM to show a gesture of good faith and get us a plan or even 2 or 3 optional plans that make clear the scope of this development.

dan s. said...

On the subject of the mayor's integrity: The city's web site still says "It [the gondola plan] provides the ability for Snowbasin patrons to use the gondola and not drive to the resort."

ozboy said...

Dan S

Here is another whopper on the city web site from the little liar, you know - the one with integrity higher than any one in town:

8. Will the gondola be air-conditioned?

They can be if needed, but lift manufacturers, after reviewing our temperature data, don’t believe it will be necessary because they generate a wind of approximately 15mph that will cool the cabins sufficiently in our arid climate.

To put the lie to this claim I suggest any one interested could merely drive down the street tomorrow at 15 miles per hour with your air conditioning off and your windows open. I did it today and all I can tell ya is it was very hot and uncomfortable and I was a sweatin like a stuck pig. When I did this today it was 93 degrees. Wait till late July and August and it will even be hotter .

Course the other side of this lie is how horrible it might be in these gondola cars in January for all those foreign students that will be flocking here and riding the damn thing in their street clothes.

I can also imagine how nice the inside of those cars will smell after those party hardy college guys get through with them after drinking a couple of pitchers of beer and hopping aboard for a bladder busting ride to town or back. I presume they will not have built in urinals.

I challenge any one reading this blog to come up with their very own "Godfrey flexible truths". This guy is so corrupt that even his claim to honesty is a major lie. Like any great bull shit artist, this little worm believes his own lies.

Integrity my ass, he wouldn't know it if it slapped him upside the head...

Just a Cop said...

The knowledge, skills and abilities required to serve as a line officer, in other words the “job performance loop” of a police officer, is far more complex than that of a politician.
Being a front line police officer is arguably the most complex “job performance loop” in our society.

Politicians must understand that there is an extremely competitive market for qualified police officers. Unqualified persons are plentiful, but history has shown that lowering standards is a recipe for disaster.
It will lead to an increase in crime, an increase in the city’s liability and a downturn in property values and the general economy.
Politicians must understand that, they have to pay competitive wages and benefits, and also support their officers in a civil manner.

The Politician that does understand this! Know people want to stay, and not move out of their cities and counties. Because they are safer. Businesses will be knocking doors open to move in. It’s a win- win situation.

just a cop said...

Just one more note. Cops don’t think they should own a mansion or drive a hummer.
We just want to be able to spend our off time to take our kids to a ball game, hunting, fishing, dinner and show with our spouses every once in a while. We all walk in our front door after a hard day at work and see our spouse and kids. We thank God we made it today.

Curmudgeon said...

Just Cop:

Exactly. Safe streets and a lower crime rate, people feeling safer in their homes and on the streets is a "development" issue, every bit as much as a gondola scheme. Even more so.

Anonymous said...

If Mayor Godfrey lived in the days of Jesus and made that bold of a statement, he would have been stoned to death.

The word they would have used to justify that is called “blasphemy”.

I hope that Mayor Pee Wee family get a recording of it. To think that three of the “Mother of the year” award that went to mommy dearest and mommy-in-law, and wife can all be proud of their very little achievement.

Maybe, Ed Allan should get a copy of the minutes so he can have this phrase of his little son-in-law mounted and picture framed on the wall so everyone one can see this flawless character trait that he was able to achieve in this short lifetime in this boy Mayor.

Be sure to tune in new week city council hearing when our Lord Mayor will demonstrate
how to be perfect by walking on water than shortly afterwards turn that same water to wine. Then feed the multitudes with only 1 jug of water and 2 loafs of bread and 3 fishes

Don’t you see that this is how he planning to feed the family of the firemen and police officers so they no longer have to do grocery shopping. This is how he going to be their hero.

Ask a Doctor said...

Does any one know of the procedure one must take to get a person committed to a mental asylum, and have them declared mentally incoherent, and “Unfit for Duty”.
and have his little cult disbanded.

Does any one knows when was the last time that this Mayor was tested for drugs .

dian said...

It's not often that words fail me, but I have been sitting here for five minutes or so just shaking my head at this one:

Greiner says tickets are just a small part of what the officers need to do to meet performance standards. After the "blue flu" walkout last weekend, he says his officers are just whining.

"This is about having a job. If this is the job you want to have, then show up and do the job. If you don't then I'll have to find someone else to do the job," says Greiner.

I've seen quite a few police men and women lately at Council meetings. They are professional and courteous. Their comments have merit.

I will have to disagree with Chief Greiner on this one.

KSL News

miz d said...

The Mayor has no integrity. He not only lies to us but he is lying to the whole world with his statements that anyone can be at one of three ski resorts from Ogden within 20 minutes.

If you call Snow Basin about a reservation at the Needles Lodge for dinner on a Friday night you will be told to drive to the main lodge and take the gondola up to Needles.

You are also told that the gondola ride from the main lodge to Needles is 20 minutes.

Godfrey is blackening Ogden's reputation all over the world with his false information re the gondola.

Curmudgeon said...

Climbing Park story in SE:

There is an interesting story in this morning's SE about the via ferrata and ice-climbing businesses Chris Peterson and partners are hoping to operate, beginning this summer and next winter, in Waterfall Canyon. They have applied for a licence to operate the business and have run into some problems.

The Ogden Valley Planning Commission told Peterson and his consultant, Jeff Lowe, of Ogden-based Hollowgraphic Ice Tower Inc. that before their climbing operations can be licensed to conduct business, they will need to obtain a conditional use permit first [from who it is not clear]. And that they must "prepare human waste facilities" on the property before such a permit can be issued.

Mr. Peterson's associate has become annoyed, apparently, that the climbing business he and Mr. Peterson want licensed is having to jump through all the hoops and obey all the regulations and rules that apply to anyone else seeking to open a business subject to the Planning Commission's review. He told the SE that "he is getting tired of the challenges" and that he thinks "there are some people out there who don’t want this to happen because it’s a Chris Peterson project.”

Mr. Lowe, of course, offered no examples of who such people might be. Is he claiming that the Ogden Valley Planning Commission members are against the project because Peterson heads it up? Since it is the OV Planning Commission that is holding up the project, that would be a reasonable conclusion to draw from Mr. Lowe's whining.

The SE story also reveals that "Peterson applied for a business license last year, but county planners said a license could not be issued for a commercial climbing park unless a conditional-use permit was granted first."

It seems to me that someone planning to open a business needing Planning Commission review and approval would take the time to make sure, before filing the application, that he knew what would be required, what permits he would need, what documents and clearances would have to be submitted in order to get the license. In business schools, I think the course that covers this is called "Getting Your Ducks In A Row 101."

mj said...

Griener is every bit as arrogant, heartless and stupid as his buddy the midget. amongst their many human failings, is perhaps the worst of all - they are racists and bigots.

Neither one of them give a damn about the fine men and women in blue that defend us every single day with their very lives.

They chisel these fine public servants on their pay while at the same time they line their own pockets with huge $100,000 plus salaries and endless perks.

This so called Godfrey administration is certainly the lowest point in Ogden's political history. There are no great patriots or statesmen, nor is their a iota of integrity in the whole city government. Except of course for Dorene Jesky.

ARCritic said...

You would thing that Crum, but you would be wrong.

I bet you would be suprised how much time the people in the planning office and business license office spend explaining to people who want to start a business, what they have to do and what other permits requirements there are.

"Getting Your Ducks in a Row 101"

That is funny.

Schnozzboy said...

The concept "Godfrey integrity" is on par with Soviet fashion, military intelligence, or Relief Society cultural refinement.

Curmudgeon said...


You wrote: I bet you would be suprised how much time the people in the planning office and business license office spend explaining to people who want to start a business, what they have to do and what other permits requirements there are.

Nope. Wouldn't be surprised at all. In fact, that's what the planning office should be doing and what any prudent would-be business man should be doing. Going to the Planning staff well before he intends to file for a license and learning what he will need to receive it... what permits, what forms, what other certifications, other permissions, etc. etc. That is what messers Lowe and Peterson seem not to have done in this instance. [Or perhaps only Peterson. I'm not sure when Mr. Lowe became part of the enterprise.] In fact, they seem to have gone ahead and done the construction needed for their business, or much of it [trails, via ferrata routes, etc], and if newspaper stories are to be believed, they begin charging for access to the routes some time ago, and are just now getting around to find out what permits they need to do what it seems they already have done.

I am not operating a business in Ogden or Weber County, but if I were interested in opening one, it seems to me simple prudence would dictate that step one, or close to it, would be to visit the planning offices and licensing offices of every jurisdiction I intended to operate in to learn just what I needed in order to not merely apply for a license, but to have it issued in good time for opening day. Que no?

mercy livermore said...

Perhaps the great developer, Chris Peterson, thinks that having a gesture of good faith and maybe a signed 'let's look at the plan with you,' deal from the city council is enough to satisfy the Planning Commission?

After all, he has the mayor cheerleading for him and that great development team at city hall behind him!

Gosh, a guy with the highest integrity ought to pull strings for the affable but vey naive Peterson.

'Hey Matt, I thought you said this was a piece of cake. Man! Earl never told me it was going to be this hard to be on my own. Now, I have to have some way to get rid of crap up at Malan's and I'm drowning in crap down here."

Tsk Tsk....Chris ought to take the advice in the letters today. Build a skate park downtown. He'll be richer faster than with his gated community.

Oh, and dont forget to stop by the Planning Commission first!

Ancient Skater said...

A skatepark is exactly whatshould be a part of downtown. The flowrider and skydive contraptions can only accomodate one or two at a time I believe. A skatepark can be used by many at the same time, is lower maintenance, open more hours, require less supervision....etc.

For the price of this flowrider we could have a full acre world class skatepark. These things have been constructed in the highest profile downtown plazas in the world and are considered a key draw in the urban centers they occupy.

Curmudgeon said...


Well, sure, but the skate park would probably mostly be used by Ogden residents. Can't have that, now, can we. We want something for the fashionable couple who've just been shoping at the Prada Shop next to Gold's Gym after their nouvelle cuisine dinner with accompanying wine flight at the four star restaurant in the five star hotel they reached by gondola to do. Sky diving in a vertical wind tunnel sounds like just the thing, don't you think? But skating? Honestly. Why, they might even have to mix with the Ogden vulgar herd at a public skating rink. How declasse'.

I can see, Ancient, that you just don't grasp the concept....

The Lovely Jennifer said...


I just visited your link to the SE gondola poll, and I only have one thing to say:

That's IT ?!?

oh -- one more thing:

I hope NO ONE ever claims any scientificity on these three yes/no questions.

Curmudgeon said...


Yup. That's it. And the SE is not claiming that its periodic on-line polls are scientific in any way. They're mostly for fun and for folks to have a way to register some kind of opinion somehow someplace. Not an entirely pointless thing in a city/state/nation in which many people feel, rightly or wrongly, that their opinions are rarely heard at all, and even more rarely taken seriously by those in authority.

Patriotic said...

Now, you will see what true patriotism is: So gather around you fellow officers.
Because I will teach you what the older officers failed to teach you many years ago.
Each and every Benefit association of both fire and police should have as their moto hanging on walls in their line of work and in their place where they hold their Association meeting this moto.


Whether you realize it or not, your Chief of Police Jon Greiner Betray everyone of you because you are in need and it was not of a selfish need, but a real need.

He should have had the integrity to tell the Mayor. “Please Do Not Ask Me to Betray My fellow Officers”.

Sheriff Brad Slater should have called the Mayor and Ogden City Council and told them.
“I Will Not Betray My Fellow Officers.” .“Do not ask me to cross the picket line!!! What you people are doing is wrong dead wrong and you know it”!!!! “Where is your integrity?????”

This is an issue of Honor and Respect for their fellow officer’s.
These two men are first an officer of the law, They Took and swore a Oath of Office then secondly a politician not the other way around. They both need some guilt trips right now since it is an election for both......

This is what dignity is:

If he is the Police Chief of WHINEY officer it is because of his leadership (or lack of it) that his officers are WHINEY.

What is worst was your fellow officers in Roy and in the county and other cities also betrayed you as well. This is why Ogden City won the negotiations. This is why you are Stupid.

I will continue to teach you if you want to become smart in this game for the brotherhood sake......

Ancient Skater said...

BTW Curm, skatepark is not a skating rink. Big difference. A rink is oval where you wear roller skates and go round and round. Skateparks are entirely different having obstacles skillfully sculpted in concrete where kids perform gravity defying tricks on skateboards. A friend is a top designer who did the Layton Park. See for examples of their incredible urban plaza work. Why were these people not consulted on the Junction? The theme is recreation and action sports and we get an indoor gym and mechanical thrill-a-trons. What a joke.

Curmudgeon said...


OK. Misread. I've talked to others who were pushing an ice-skating rink in public space at the mall [which, in my experience, usually doubles as a roller skating venue in the summers] and that's probably what I took "skate park" to mean. Thanks for the correction.

I don't think the developers or the city were particularly hoping to attract skateboarders to what they see as a high-end retail/recreation/restaurant development. Especially the ones who think Paris Hilton and her crowd are going to fly into SLC, take a cab to the Frontrunner station, wait for a commuter train to take them to Ogden so they can ride a gondola to the mall redevelopment to spend at Prada and Versace shops.

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