By Dian Woodhouse
Smart Growth is standing behind its map:
Smart Growth Ogden stands by its map and the accompanying text, which in all material aspects accurately represent the data and descriptions provided by the city itself. The map was produced from vector data provided by the Ogden City GIS Department on April 21. An image created from the same vector data is still posted on the city's web site... The locations of the features depicted--trails, roads, building sites, and golf course fairways--were not altered by Smart Growth Ogden in any way. All of the conclusions drawn in the text that accompanies our map follow from the data itself; for example, the city's data shows trails in the completed project crossing roads in more than 10 locations, golf holes in 8 locations, and the driving range. If the data is inaccurate then the city, not Smart Growth Ogden, is at fault.
There are also side by side images of the city's map and the Smart Growth map so we can compare them.
Ogden City Attorney Letter
Smart Growth Response & comparison maps
Update 6/11/06 11:38 a.m. MT: One of our helpful gentle readers has obtained and transmitted to us a copy of Ogden City Attorney Norm Ashton's 6/10/06 "attorney letter," the text of which we have provided via the above link.
Comments are invited, as always.
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23 comments:
Dian,
I love what you always have to say on this blog.
What I don't understand is why is it that the taxpayers of ogden should put up the fight for Chris Peterson to put a gondola on his property. If he is so sure that this is such a good idea then why doesn't he just get all the permits to do this on his own and leave us taxpayer out of it. no sale of the golf course and no urban gondola until he shows us the money.
then when he makes all of these millions of dollars that he says the project will, then he can then say, See, I told you so. but until he does that. then I will be the one that will be saying, See. I told you so....
why doesn't he do just that? because he doesn't have what it takes to succeed on his own with out the taxpayers.
so come on Chris Peterson why don't you prove us all wrong and do it on your own!
Dear See:
Exactly. And several folks have been offering plans that would permit Mr. Peterson to do exactly what you suggest.. Kent Jorgenson offered his "Option B" via the Standard Examiner and Salt Lake Tribune and this blog some time ago. And others have offered variations on it since.
Basically, Jorgenson's "Option B" calls for the city or WSU to sell or lease Mr. Peterson a small parcel of land... five to ten acres or so... at the head of 36th Street. He can use that land to build the base station of his mountain gondola which will carry folks up to the resort he wants to build in Malan's Basin on his land, said resort to be developed with his funding. UTA and Ogden could provide bus service from downtown hotels to the gondola station somewhere near the head of 36th Street. [The 603 already goes past the site four times an hour in each direction days during the week.] Ogden keeps its parklands. We don't shell out millions for the wholly unjustified downtown-to-WSU city gondola system [the main purpose of which will be to deliver passengers to Mr. Peterson's mountain gondola base]. Sounds like a plan to me.
Sadly, there are still those who have drunk the kool-aid on the Godfrey/Peterson pipe dream, including a letter-writer in today's SE. His letter touting the Godfrey/Peterson gondola/gondola and real estate specualtion proposals simply assumes that they will work as advertised. That hoards of wealthy skiers will descend on Salt Lake City International airport, pile into cabs for a ride to the nearest Frontrunner station, wait for a train, haul their bags aboard for a forty minute ride to Ogden, haul their bags onto a gondola for a ride to a downtown hotel, then, when registered, will take another 18 minute gondola ride to WSU, then another twenty minute gondola ride to Malan's Basin. A cab ride, a train ride, and three gondola rides, taking all told over two hours, to reach a vest pocket mini-ski resort Malan's Basin.
It will of course occur to none of them that they could from the SL airport ride one of the ski area shuttle vans right from the airport and be delivered, luggage and all, to their hotel at the foot of the ski lift at already world-famous Snowbird, or Alta, or Brighton, or Solitude in about an hour, or to any of the world-famous resorts at Park City in the same or less time than it will take them to get to Malan's Basin.
But no, we still get letter writers predicting [so far as I can see on no credible evidence] that the real estate promoter Chris Peterson's airy predictions [along with those of his Amen Chorus over at Lift Ogden] will all magically come true. Of course, these pie-in-the-sky predictions are supported by Mayor Godfrey who is now on record refusing to explain the basis for his predictions about how all this will boost Ogden's tax revenues or WSU's enrollment or Ogden's employment. We are, it seems, to take it all on trust, turn over 28% of our city parklands to Mr. Peterson to develop for his profit, sink at least $22.4 million into a downtown gondola to service his gondola, and just hope for the best.
No wonder the mayor finds it annoying that people are asking questions.
Thanks, see. I too do not see why the city should get involved in this at all in the blatantly promotional way it has, especially in view of the fact that city involvement with some other business owners seems to be geared more toward enforcement than overt promotion.
In fact, in yesterday's paper, there was an article about some enforcing involvement the city is considering having with Ogden businesses.
The article, "Ogden to consider clean-river ordinance," by Scott Schwebke, published June 10th on page 2C, discusses an ordinance to be reviewed by the Council and then voted upon, although we don't yet know when. Mayor Godfrey is quoted as stating that the passage of this ordinance "would bring Ogden in compliance with the Clean Water Act...which is necessary for the city to maintain its federal storm water discharge permit."
Have no idea what a "federal storm water discharge permit" is, or why we need one, (perhaps someone will write in and explain,) but it was the rest of the article I found interesting, especially when compared with the promotional attitude the administration has toward the Peterson project. This ordinance, if passed, would empower the city to enforce against pollution of its storm water drainage system.
From the article:
The ordinance would require property owners in the city to obtain a storm water pollution-prevention permit before begnning construction...
...Properties served by rivers, streams and ponds would have to be kept free of trash, debris, excessive vegetation and other obstacles that would pollute, contaminate or significantly slow the flow of water...
Article goes on to say that violation of this ordinance would result in a Class B misdemeanor and perhaps fines of up to $1,000 a day.
Now. Last fall, Chris Peterson did some clearcutting on his Malan's Basin property, (which I am very well aware is Not in the city, but I am contrasting the city's attitude toward Peterson as opposed to its attitude toward other business owners in reference to compliance with the Clean Water Act,) and filled a creek bed with the cut brush and branches. We know that storm water does come from that area, as witnessed by those below who experience flooding from it. Whether this brush filled creek would qualify as part of our storm water drainage system, I do not know.
However, the fact remains that the city is considering passing an ordinance which would bring city property owners into compliance with the Clean Water Act, and to me, especially after reading the above, dumping brush into a creek is not that.
To my knowledge, the only entity officially concerned with the effect of Peterson's activities on the environment has been the local Sierra Club, which published pictures of the clearcutting and choked creek on its website. The Ogden City administration has remained positive about the Peterson project, while drafting an ordinance prohibiting the very thing Peterson has done, it seems to me.
Not too consistent an attitude, in other words. Here are the Sierra Club's pictures:
Ogden Sierra Club's pictures of brush choked creek in Malan's Basin
Correction:
Second to last paragraph should begin:
"To my knowledge, the only entity officially concerned with the negative effects of Peterson's activities on the environment has been the local Sierra Club,.."
There has been much said about the positive effects upon the environment this project will have, both by the city and by the project's promotional material and organizations.
Good point Curmudgeon. The 625 and the 640 also run at the very top of 36th street as well.
I'm proud of Tammy Why Not for standing by her man, and I am equally proud of SGO for standing by their map.
This attack by the little lord and his hired mouthpiece just goes to show you how disingenuous the dirty bounder is. He uses the city resources to promote a private developer's attempt to scam prestige property out of the tax payers, he uses the city attorny to try to intimidate any one that points out that he has no clothes, and he lies when the truth would be better.
15 months and we can shed our selves of this disgusting little monster.
I noticed that there has been a conflict of having Chris Peterson opening his books to show that he has the money needed to get the project up and rolling.
However, I also understand that he wishes not to have his personal finances made public. So how does one makes sure that both sides of this is issue is met? Very Simple, require that Chris Peterson put into a escrow account $20 million dollars as seed money, this will prove to all the nay sayers that he is very legal, binding, and sound.
However, this does cause one to ask the question that if any government monies are to be used at all, are they not to put this out to competitive bidding? I am have heard someone say that the Mount Ogden Golf Course is a “dedicated park”.
Doesn’t this have some legal ramifications that must be met before they can go foreword or this can cause Ogden City to be sued? I mean I would hate to see the Tax Payer picking up the tab on another stupid lawsuit again. That is not only counter productive but we end up sacrificing city services being cut, because of some dam fool city administrator didn’t do their homework. It seems that this administration is trying to put the cart in front of the horse all the time. I sorry for not being well versed in this project. So please pardon my ignorance in this project in asking these questions.
If we are going to do this project, lets do it right. We have lost to much taxpayers money to lawyers and plaintiffs in the past. The only one that really suffers is the taxpayers that did noting wrong but vote for the wrong pee-wee clown into office. Unfortunately this circus is not in town for a few days but for 4 years until the next election.
As I was driving past the El Monte Golf Course the other day. I thought wasn’t that road just repaired recently? You know the curve on Valley drive as you leave Harrison and coming near the Golf Course! The one curve that had the barriers up for several years then finally they took the barriers ways and fixed it, seemed so nice to finally have the city fix that curve..... So it wouldn’t be so dangerous to drive on. Then we seen that in a few months later the road was falling apart again and the barriers went back up. Which now that curve is dangerous once again.
You might ask what does this have to do with the gondola? The point is; Why wasn’t this road fixed right in the first? Was it because the city never had the money to do this project right in the first place?
Then I though is this the way the Mayor Pee-Wee of Ogden operates? And if so is this the type of work or craftsmanship we can expect for our Mayor on future projects. Crappy planning, inferior materials, cheap labor. Then have the thing fall apart in a few years where they have to close it down and then Ogden owns another white elephant?
In the police line of work they call this standard of operation or M.O. (motive of Operation.) In other words look at the past track record to make a fair judgement of present and future assessments. Another term that is used in the court system today is called. “The evidence speaks for it’s self”.
I don't think that WSU letting Peterson have a small parcel of land is a good alternative. WSU should not give up any of their land
If Peterson really does want a gondola to Malan's Basin, as he originally said, (and I doubt that he really does), then he must build it on his own with his money. Or, his wife's money.
If he really does intend to build a resort up there, then DO IT! On his own, of course.
What the blazes do those two things have to do with us?? A gondola running thru town is so assinine. Who wants to ride an 11 mph cable car thru town to WSU?? And then what?
Once Peterson has his resort built ( about 2011, I figure), and his gondola running....then he can entice enuf tourists off 1-15 to fund construction on his footprint homes around Peterson, Morgan, Wanship or some other desirable place that is attracting people who want to get out of SLC.
I find it very difficult to believe that WSU land will be given up for this hare-brained scheme. The Board of Regents need to come out NOW with a big NO! to stop this madness. Also, the Forest Service has to give an okay, and I can't see that happening.
If this scheme were so workable and financially feasible, Holding would have done it, and done it right, long ago.
BTW...is the Peterson marriage on the rocks? If so, where will Peterson get his money?
He needs to show us his net worth, and open HIS books. This is just a snake oil pitch, and Godfrey is the shill helping Chris work the crowd.
Anonymous,
The great city father and construction engineer took $43,000. of snow removal funds and 'sunk' them into the sink hole on Country Hills Dr! Now, the residents in that area, who were inconvenienced for about 9 months, say the road seems about to give way again.
Yep, that's the caliber of fixing the neglectful emporer considers 'good enough' for the masses.
I was in SLC yesterday and several people asked me in incredulous tones, what the heck is going on in Ogden with that ..... gondola???
They all detest Rocky Anderson, but practically offered condolences to me over Godfrey.
They view him the way one does walking through the reptile exhibit at the zoo.
We have to have the Gondola, so the city can pay for Nate Pierce's $100.000.00 severence packedge. And also the 5 million they had to pay to the Woodbury Corp for tearing down their building. Pierce was one of Godfreys boys... That made the big wwooppps. Why do we allow these guys to make these kind of decisions. Its time for a change. We need practical leadership.
Catch the last page of the second section.....the usual suspects, of course.
If the Allens weren't so prolific, there'd be a LOT less names on there!
"1200 new jobs"...has anyone heard of even ONE of these new jobs??
"4 million to our schools", what a miserly sum. Isn't Matt promising that WSU will 'make' NINE MILLION ANNUALLY, and see an increase of 1000 NEW students annually also?
Young Chris, the WSU student who gathered 1100 names in a week while carrying 18 credits surely has given a clearer look at the numbers against this horrenedous scheme. Those names represented a portion of students who are critical thinkers!
Well, it would be nice to know that Godfrey had found a little time to sneak around in back rooms securing a contract with West Liberty Foods. THAT company has 625 REAL jobs for our needy folks.
1200 jobs! Doing WHAT, pray tell?
Are we talking about construction workers? They will make a pile of dough riding that *&%#@% 'tram' up and down the mtnside carrying materials and emptying waste all day long. Paid by the hour, MORE than 1200 will clamor for those jobs!
Darn...don't you just wish Peterson would put a road to his resort? Think of the 'fun' Mark Johnson could have driving up there eery day in his SUV...not as much as in that Hummer, but, ...oh well. I'm sure he could TRY to be happy.
And the citizens who wash clothes in orange water will be glad to do so knowing that their mayor is making sure his overpaid sycophants are 'happy and fulfilled' in their jobs. "Sacrifice" takes on a whole new meaning....NOT of Matt's minions and their appetites...but sacrificing the poor slobs who pay their salaries.
In the meantime, the firefighters and police drive OLD cars, pay their own insurance, have NO car allowance from the city. They DO sacrifice....their very lives for us every day.
Shame on Godfrey and his gang! Don't you think they'd show up in public with a sack over their heads...too ashamed to look anyone in the eyes?
Public servants, my eye! More like public welfare scammers.
Mercy:
Well, you and I agree on most things, but on this, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. If Mr. Peterson is to build a gondola to a Malan's Basin resort he wants to build, it has to have a down-mountain terminus with access to the streets and public transport. Limited number of places that can be accomodated, and I don't think Peterson owns any land on which it can be accomodated. Seems to me a reasonable compromise might be for WSU or the City to sell or lease [not give] him a small parcel of land near the head of 36th Street, sufficient for the gondola base station and a few small shops, etc.
From there, he can run his gondola over his own land to Malan's Basin. He will not, I think, have to cross forest service land from there to his Malan's Basin property. Or not much of it.
If the Malan's development is such a drop-dead winning proposition, then banks and pension funds and other funders of large development projects should be willing, nay eager, to own a piece of it by providing funding for its construction and development. Of course, to get them to come in, he'd have to provide them with feasibility studies and financial plans of exactly the sort that, so far, neither he nor the Mayor have been willing to provide for public scrutiny. He'd have to convince his potential major investors that the development has a good chance of being financially successful.
A bank or pension fund financed development would not require Mr. Peterson to reveal his personal finances to the public. But, clearly, he would have to satisfy the major investors that he had the resources to carry the project to completion.
All this would permit him to develop his property consistent with County zoning requirements and so on [provided he could arrange funding], it would not involve the city giving up 28% of its parklands, and it would not require the city to invest $22 million plus to construct a downtown gondola system largely to deliver customers to Mr. Peterson's gondola system. Still sounds like a reasonable proposition all around to me.
Take a look at the newest website--have no idea whose it is---but it's amusing. It's been linked on the sidebar for a few days, too.
I have been doing some research on Mr. Peterson and the Malan Basin property involved with this proposed project. I don’t know if any of this is significant or completely accurate because I am not a professional and I have 0 experience reading property descriptions and plate maps. I hope someone on this site will double check me and post a response. I believe the property Mr. Peterson purchased are the following parcel #'s
05-001-0001
05-001-0003
14-109-0002
According to the Weber County web site property tax info these parcels are owned by Salt lake Exchange Accommodations 154, LLC
and as of 6/11/2006 are currently listed as delinquent in taxes and have been in the past. Past delinquent taxes have been paid by a company K38 that is advertised on the net as an importer of exotic wood from the forests of Nicaragua owned by Chris Peterson. (See http://www.globalwood.org/trade/godetail.asp?id=27342) I did a business entity search on the Utah division of corporations web site and found a few hundred listings for Salt Lake Exchange Accommodations LLC. The only difference between them being a # change. Incidentally Salt Lake Exchange Accommodations 154 LLC's business license expired on 05/09/06. Most all of these business entity's including 154 name Ray M. Beck as the registered agent and manager. Mr. Beck, a Salt Lake attorney, is apparently the poster boy for IRS section 1031 code, like kind exchanges, a tax deferment loophole for real-estate investors.
As someone who found the original gondola proposal intrigueing I am disgusted at what it has become. I hope that this information is not new but might help put together the puzzeling quandary that is being push upon the citizens of Ogden.
Very nice research, V! I came across all the listings for Salt Lake Exchange Accommodations myself a while back and was mystified by it. You say it's a tax loophole for real estate investors? Interesting.
I don’t know if loophole is right word. According to what I have read so far it is a complex yet common tool used by real-estate investors to delay or avoid paying taxes made on gains through the transaction by using a three party system. But to the average Joe who has to pay taxes it sure seems like a loophole.
Dian said:
Have no idea what a "federal storm water discharge permit" is, or why we need one, (perhaps someone will write in and explain,) but it was the rest of the article I found interesting, especially when compared with the promotional attitude the administration has toward the Peterson project. This ordinance, if passed, would empower the city to enforce against pollution of its storm water drainage system.
While I am not positive, I would guess that a storm water discharge permit is what entities must have to be able to discharge their storm water into rivers and streams that come under the watch of the EPA. There have been increasing restrictions and requirements on entities that discharge into rivers and such. The EPA wants to have the water cleaned somewhat before it gets to the rivers.
Remember those "Everybody lives downstream" commercials?
This ordinance seems to be one requirement that Ogden needs to do in order to comply and keep their permit.
But since I really don't know, please take with a grain of salt.
Richard,
I have wasn't paying attention to city government much when Nate Pierce worked there, but you need to be set straight on something. Nate Pierce expressed in his circle of friends extreme dissatifaction in dealing with the Mayor and left Ogden City out of frustration with the administration.
Anon to Anon-
I have heard the same about Mr. Pierce--he was highly unhappy with the way the mayor tried to run things. And he was in return, ran out of his position. That is one thing about Ogden City, it appears that the City has and has had highly capable people working for it, but they've been stifled or have left in disgust because of the mayor and his single-mindedness.
What's good for the goose . . .
To The Corrupt Ogden City Administration:
It has come to my attention that certain maps of Ogden City, produced by Ogden City, depicting the proposed cross town Gondola, among other features, are inaccurate. These maps are being circulated to the public with the false express and/or implied representation that Ogden City is giving and accurate representation of the gondola proposal. The false and deceptive maps are being circulated to the public by the Ogden City Administration in an inaccurate state.
I hereby provide notice to Ogden City for circulating such maps represented as or implying they accurately depict the property in question when in fact, as per a recorded statement by Mayor Mathew Godfrey, such representation is false, misleading and deceptive, TO CEASE AND DESIST.
Your immediate attention to effecting such corrective action is appreciated and expected.
Very truly yours,
An Objective Ogden-Loving Citizen
Anon:
Not to mention that the maps, produced by the city at public expense, were produced to aid the promotion of a private real estate development by Mr. Peterson. They are certainly being used that way.
Public funds to produce promotional material for a private real estate development, and one that has not even been presented to the Planning Commission yet for its review.
Imagine that...
Must be rough to be a developer or business man or woman who is not the Mayor's pal, and thus have to produce, and pay for, your own promotional materials for your proposed projects.
And the beat goes on....
Curmudgeon,
Yeah! You're right! Too bad I already sent a copy of it to Norm Ashton. Heh, Heh
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