Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Tuesday Morning Back-burner News Cleanup

A couple of items from the WCF back burner, just to give our readers a little something to chew on...

In the midst of the continuing Emerald City Lame Duck Mayor News Drought, we'll spring a couple of items from the WCF back burner, just to give our readers a little something to chew on, (and to let you all know we're still alive):

As a followup to these fantastic 3/25/11 and 5/20/11 Salt Lake Tribune Op-ed pieces, here's the latest GRAMA-topical writeup from former reporter and current associate BYU professor of communications, the inimitable Man of the People, Joel Campbell. Despite months of weekly GRAMA Task Force meetings, wherein the sheer elegance of Utah's existing GRAMA law has been painstakingly revealed, it seems that some Utah legislators still cling to the notion that their legislative business ought to be conducted in secret, and that communications with "constituents" who seek favors and handouts should not be publicly revealed:
And here, from the pages of the Deseret News, is the latest corporatist "Republic v. Democracy" rant, courtesy of recently-ousted corporatist whore, U.S. Senator Bob Bennett:
In the interest of keeping the topic in context (and perhaps to puncture some of the mind-numbing ideological silliness), we've rounded up a couple of counter-points.

First, here's a little something from somebody named William P. Meyers, who properly points out that the terms "constitutional republic" and "representative democracy" (our preferred terminology to describe our American (Utah) polital systems) are not mutually exclusive, and that these definitions actually have substantial definitional "overlap":
And next, here's a great counter-rant from Trib contributor Bangs Tapscott, who argues that this whole "America (Utah) is a republic" meme is merely a Republican scheme to replace "democratic ideals" with the concept "that democratic participation is a hazardous thing that needs to be limited, and that power belongs, not with the people, but with those at the top and that when they get grown up they should elect prominent citizens to power, then sit down and shut up and let those they elected run things, and not try to exercise power they’re not entitled to":
That's it for now, O Gentle Ones. Who'll be the first to throw in their own 2¢?


rudizink said...

I'll add that the first time I ever heard this goofy "America is a Republic (not a Democracy" theme was way back in 2005, when I was passing around a citizen's petition, and Boss Godfrey called me on the phone way past my bedtime (after a Council meeting), ranted on for an hour about how the people had elected him to " Shut the F up" and make all their decisions for them.

Of course I called a "bullshit" on the little b*****d.

Here's the situation, people.  Those who want to go back to the days in America when the only folks who could influence public policy (vote)  in America were "free, white, male, and property owners...  just follow the lead of these "originalist" dipwads.

Momb said...

I've been worried that this work load is getting to be too much for Rudizink (several days since the last post) and then he comes out with renewed brilliance: "democratic participation is a hazardous thing that needs to be limited, and that power belongs, not with the people, but with those at the top "

rudizink said...

You may have a point regarding those times when there's no real red meat political news, Momb. 

When there's no red meat news however, your blogmeister works twice as hard as when the SE dishes out a red meat story on a silver platter.

Barring getting struck by a bolt of lightning, however, your blogmeister won't readily give up on Weber County Forum, something that's  been one of the most personally satisfying projects in yer Blogmeister's life.

Cheers to us all, no?

Ozboy said...

This whole GRAMA committee thing is a bunch of horse shit cooked up by the morally bankrupt  leadership (so called) of the state legislature to try and lend some legitimacy to their arrogant attempt at closing the door on citizen knowledge and participation.  Instead of just being remotely honest about their huge blunder and apologizing to the citizens for it, they spend a huge amount of public money on this smoke screen scam of a committee in a pathetic attempt at making themselves look reasonable. 

They really do seem too stupid to realize that you can't polish a turd.

Ozboy said...

As it pertains to the Republic -vs- Democracy thing,

If it a Republic, then why do they call them "representatives" instead of "deciders"?

blackrulon said...

I saw Gage Froerer has an article in the latest issue of the Ogden Valley News. When explaining his vote in favor of HB466-GRAMA he calls it the most misunderstood bill of the session. He admits voting for the initial bill  butdue to the overshelming torrent of misinformation he voted for its repeal. "Once again, this bill was a starting point; a spark to light a much-needed fire. It was only passed because we were promised it would be studied to death". 72 hours from introduction to passage indicates that the wheels were greased to slide this bill passed without any debate. If it was a starting point it could have been studied and  debated prior to int oduction and possible passage. Between his Powderville bill, applauding child molester Kevin Garn and the GRAMA bill he is wrong. Sorry Rudi but we have got to get rid of this legislator. I think the R does not mean Republican but instead means Realtor.

Danny said...

I always understood a republic meant you choose leaders who decide the affairs of government for you.

A democracy meant that all the people gather and make all the decisions regarding government themselves.

If so, then this country is clearly a republic not a democracy.  I would argue too, that a republic is superior to a democracy.

But Franklin Roosevelt didn't like calling this a republic, because he didn't like the incompetent Hoover, a republican.  Of course he never saw the incompetent democrat in the mirror.

Anyway, it seems to me this is a republic.  Nonetheless, the leaders are chosen by the people and should hear from them often.

Danny said...

For what it's worth, the words republican and democrat have meant may things over the years.  Both are parties, organized to obtain power, and to, well, party.

I try to choose the person regardless of party.  I have voted for members of both parties.  But I wish I could vote libertarian.  Typically, that is the one philosophy that is left behind.

That's because hardly anybody seeks political office and power in order to REDUCE the amount of power and influence they have.  Power is seductive.  Once you have it, you want to keep it,  you want more.

rudizink said...

Gage Froerer is one of the most extreme corporatists  in the State Legislature.

Keisha said...

Hmmm.  Anybody know where I can pick up a copy of the Ogden Valley News here in Ogden?

Blackrulon said...

They often have available copies at Rainbow Gardens and the free publications rack at the Fresh Market store at 2044 Harrison. The explanation by Gage Froerer is on page 3 of the Jult 1st issue.

rudizink said...

"But I wish I could vote libertarian.  Typically, that is the one philosophy that is left behind."

It's not actually "left behind," methinks.  It's more like  a "false choice" between  the Republican AND Democratic parties, which are pretty much Tweedle-dum and Tweedle Dee.

BlameJohnsonAndOthers said...

How could it possibly feel to show up on Sundays, take sacrament, be sustained to callings, give blessings and use the priesthood powers knowing everyone in the chapel KNOWS you have lied in public? If there is anyone in earshot of this post, please share this experience (anonymously of course) with the readers so we can have some appreciation and understanding of how the thieves within FNURE and Envision Ogden must feel every week at church. The TRUTH will set you free and save you for eternity!

Danny said...

I have seen the players you mention in church and in the temple.  They are by all appearences, good and faithful members.

The contradiction you observe is valid.  But remember, one is not required to be perfect to be a churchgoer.  

And I do find it strange that while obvious proof of sexual immorality is cause for revocation of temple worthiness and of full fellowship, obvious proof of lies, fraud, and thievery are not.

I suspect Val Southwick could have somebody take the sacrament to him each week and maybe even lie his way into a temple recommend, while serving time for massive fraud that destroyed the welfare of many.  But had he boinked his neighbor, even if they were both unmarried, he'd be off the Lord's list.

It's weird, I don't agree with it, and it seems inconsistent with the gospel and the scriptures, but that's how they do it.

But the church is still true, even if some of the members can't be trusted.  Some of them can be, but some can't.

Danny said...

But to answer the question, corruption often comes with hypocrisy.  The guy in the mirror is typically a good guy.  Just read Sammy Gravano's autobiography, "Underboss."  The murdering mobster is a family man and pillar of society, at least, in his own eyes.

Danny said...

On another subject, you gotta love this.

The idea is: why tax gold and silver transactions, when you do not tax transactions alone using ordinary government created Monopoly money?

"This bill is an important step towards a stable and sound currency
whose value is protected from the Fed’s printing press," Lee said.

Now Dat's what I'm talkin' 'bout, bro'.

Article Here

Believe it or not, for centuries, free banking worked.  The purpose of the Federal Reserve was to monopolize the creation of money to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few.  And oh, few things have ever worked so well.

BlameJohnsonAndOthers said...

Sorry for the confusion.  Make no mistake, the church is definitely true.  It's the members who are not. Thank you for the clarification. There is no intent to discredit the LDS church that I hold sacred.

Blackrulon said...

 Do you mean how could good Catholics be mafia killers but still go to mass? How could good
Baptists attend church yet still lynch Africian-Americans? Hypocrites are not limited to the LDS church.

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