For those who have been sitting on the edges of their seats, eagerly awaiting the Ogden City Council's seemingly-inevitable approval of the new Rec Center bonding, there may be some more bad news.
I got word yesterday from a very reliable source close to City Hall that the city council vote, now set for July 26, will be taken off-calender yet again.
My source informed me that this may be something more problematic than the mere bonding agreement financial details, which had presumedly been the main obstacle holding this matter up. I was told that the bond underwriters are suddenly asking nervous questions about previously prepared "environmental site studies" relevant to the old mall site.
I've since spoken with Mayor Godfrey about this situation; and he confirms that the vote will indeed be delayed -- again. He offers his reassurrence, however, that the existing reports are in order, that the site itself is "clean," and that whatever reservations are now being expressed by the underwriters are merely part of the "cat-and-mouse" game that typically occurs when an underwriter and an RDA are engaged in negotiations. As to the December 31, 2005 "drop-dead date" that I mentioned in this earlier WCF article, Mayor Godfrey advises that whatever delay that occurs will be measured in days, or weeks at worst, but that the Rec Center project is not itself in jeopardy.
There you have it, faithful readers.
And here we'd all assumed it would be a slam-dunk.
Comments, anyone?
Update o7/23/05 8:15 a.m MT: Scott Schwebke updates this story with additional information. It appears that members of the the City Council are growing frustrated.
© 2005 - 2014 Weber County Forum™ -- All Rights Reserved
20 comments:
Maybe the common sense police have opened an investigation and the gang of six are ducking for cover?
And maybe all the people who have been speaking out on this goof ball scheme have been wasting their breath,
And just maybe the whole damn scheme is collapsing from its own absurdity. Common sense sometimes does prevail in the end in the land of Oz.
Herein lies the problem with a city administration attempting to become a developer. Obviously, there are some bright minds sitting in those chairs, but there's also a huge lack of experience when it comes to real estate development. It's one thing for the City to buy up all the HUD homes, rehabilitate them, then turn them for a profit (it's called a "flip" in the real estate business); and it's yet another when it comes to understanding and completing the "due diligence" with the land parcel.
A professional realtor, or developer, would have foreseen this described bonding problem early on and would have taken the task of finding about about the condition of the land immediately thereafter. Hazardous materials such as lead base paint, asbestos, oil, inks, tires, dry wall and other building materials that were used to construct the original buildings along Washington Blvd., or materials used in the original mall construction itself, could all be present, and if so, the land must be cleaned before it is built on again. There's no end to the conditions a bank or bonding company will insist the city adhere to before floating them the money, and the City should have been aware of this prior to setting a date to vote. Each postponment is costing the taxpayers thousands of dollars.
The Mayor seems to feel comfortable about this affair, but I'm afraid he's just now seeing the tip of an iceberg, an iceberg that our tax dollars will have to melt, or this new recreation center might just as well be named the "Titanic."
And maybe the situation is just what Mayor Godfrey says it is, enthused citizen.
There are millions of dollars at stake her, including commissions, referral fees, and what I call "gotcha" fees.
A deal like this cannot be put together without all the players "jockeying for position." This is normal in transactions of this sort.
I'm going along with Mayor Godfrey on this. The adverse bargaining positions will be ultimately reconciled -- and the bonding deal will be made.
Mayor Godfrey deserves another "hat tip" for his obvious hard-bargaining.
He's obviously not taking any "take-it-or-leave-it offers on this bond deal.
Well Rudi, I'm not sure what it is that we're debating here. My position is that the Mayor and his bunch are not developers, and that being the case many "conditions" will most likely arise that will catch the Gang of 6 off guard and delay this project (your article, a case in point).
However, were a professional "developer" running this show, many of these intangibles and unknowns, like this "clean mall site" thing that got Godfrey this time, would most likely have been anticipated and headed off, saving everyone time and money.
For the mayor to minimize this, as in the way you have written, tells me he should be running the city government instead of attempting to be a developer/builder. He's just a little out of his league and his attitude is quite casual, as it is on many of the things that he's in charge of that have faltered.
His job is to govern a city, not be a developer.
My apologies, EC.
I'd intended to direct my comment to Ozboy, and mistakenly mentioned you.
I've read your own comment, and agree with everything you said.
You're right. An experienced real estate developer would have anticipated the problem up front, and would have planned for it.
That's the problem when amateurs dabble in fields that are highly technical, of course.
You're right; I have no argument with you on any of the points you made.
Rudi your full of it! The mayor does not deserve a tip of the hat for anything. He was elected to run an efficent city government. He hasn't done it. He has squandered tens of millions of dollars on a slew of ill advized projects. The tax payers willl have to make good on all this nonsense long after he has fled the scene. I anticipate that he will be thrown out of office by the voters the very next chance they get. He is incompetent, he is an arrogant bum.
I agree with OzBoy, this madness may very well be collapsing from its own absurdity. It is much better that it falls apart when we have only lost twenty million dollars instead of waiting till we are in the hole for forty million.
I believe the best thing to do at this point is to smooth the mall site out and plant grass and trees and make a nice central park in the middle of town. Then wait till some real, and more importantly competent, developer comes along and builds it out intelligently. Meanwhile the city will be enhanced with a nice green space where now we have Matt;s mud hole.
Merle Moore
That is a fantastic idea, we'll plant grass so that everyone in downtown Ogden has somewhere to take their dogs for a walk. Don't you guys get it?? All of you, You make it sound like Mayor Godfrey is an idiot for stepping in and taking the reins. The reason he has is because he was forced to. Do you realize that the Crossroads and Zcmi mall are struggling to keep tenants. All of this amidst having over 10 times the metro area of Ogden city. There are 5 million people that come to visit right across the street at Temple Square. The LDS church has committed 500 million dollars in renovating, and the mall is still struggling to keep tenants.
It is no wonder Ogden has struggled to keep a mall. Don't you understand?? Mayor Godfrey had to get involved.
It wasn't until mayor Godfrey got the ball rolling with the Rec Center that private developers and business owners stepped in and wanted to get involved. If any of you were in the same position as the mayor, and "attended to important city business" and stayed out of developing, we would have had a mud hole there for the next 50 years. The fine mayor is doing a lot more than any of you would have ever dreamed of doing.
I have heard the park idea quite a bit from quite a few people. The problem I see with it is that it would be the only park in the nation with its own four story parking garage! We could tear down the garage, but that would cost almost the same as the rec. center or anything else.
Rudi, my compliments. Not often does one admit error with such grace, and I'm not saying this because you agree with me but because of your decorum. Some of you other people, those who have differing views on things, you should use this as an example on how to disagree, rather than firing away from the hip with slanderous vindictives, vulgarity and character assassination.
I can only imagine what comments this posting will promt.
P.S.
Uh, Dr. Ogden, besides the Tree House, which has always been aboard, win-loose-or draw, and the gentleman who wants to build some more condos on site, what other "business owners" and or "private developers" have signed their names on the dotted line? I don't want TALK here, I want CONTRACTED OBLIGATION.
I certainly hope there are a few of these, for I'd like to know who they are and to what they have commited themselves to.
Maybe tearing down the parking structure (have you taken a good look at that thing lately?) and turning the dirt into a park, with a FOR SALE sign on it, ain't such a bad idea.
I would suggest that Dr.Ogden and UtMormon educate themselve before carrying on like they actually know the history of how Mat's Mudd hole became what it is. The good mayor very stupidly created the Mud Hole in the first place! There were developers intererested in building a new mall but ulltimately took a walk because of this stupid Rec Center idea that the mayor and his crew were not willing to let go of. Check it out..
As to the garage? Well it was the garage that doomed the last mall! It is an uninviting monster that surely will have the same effect on whatever else goes there. Tear it down and take the loss.
The Mayor and his council were not "forced" to do anything! They act out of their own interests and arrogance. They are true bureaucrats that strive to build monuments to their own egos regardless of the public need.
The only people that will ever make any money out of this abortion on Washington is the Mayor's best buddies: the Boyer boys, a pack of sleaze ball attorneys, a bunch of heartless bankers and assorter other griffters and grafters. You and I and the rest of the citizens of Ogden will eat dirt and pick up the tab for their bountiful feast at the public trough.
Hey Frank,
What in the sam hill are you rambling on about?
Why did Boyer company have it under contract for over a year before they decided they couldn't do anything. It was such a mess that it had to be torn down. Boyer couldn't make it work from an economical standpoint.
They recomended to the City that the highest and best use for the property was to have it torn down and rebuild a project similar to the Rec center.
It is like you and EC don't get it.
It couldn't work with developers, because no one was willing to step in to the picture and take the project. The City was forced to be involved as much as they are.
Well Dr. Ogden you continue to demonstrate your ignorance of the actual facts with Mat's Mud hole.
You state: "Boyer couldn't make it work from an economical standpoint. They recomended to the City that the highest and best use for the property was to have it torn down and rebuild a project similar to the Rec center."
Well Duh! What do you think Boyer is going to do, recommend that the old mall not get torn down thus making them zero dollars? or tear it down so they can build a new one and make twenty or thirty million in the process?
Then from your perch of ignorance you say: "It couldn't work with developers, because no one was willing to step in to the picture and take the project."
What about the City Group Dr. Genius? They are a major player in the United States, they were willing to go ahead with a project at the site after the idiots tore it down. They were rebuffed by the moron mayor because they didn't want to include his pet project the Rec center which they saw as idiotic and unfeasible.
It appears that your either up the Mayor's keester so far that you can't see daylight, or your so gullible that you just lap up everything the mayor and his crew dish out to the masses.
They are dishonest, disengenious, and incompetent and anything they say anymore is highly suspect. And you lap it up like it was gospel!
Dr. Ogden, I think you should go back, research, study, and get the facts straight before you make any more absurd comments regarding that which you obviously KNOW LITTLE OR NOTHING ABOUT!
Where do some of you people get this stuff? City Venture took a walk after finally having enough of Godfrey's attitude. The Boyer Company feel the rec center's the key, but they've yet to commit on the line. The parking structure, home of rapes and vadalism, still towers over the dirt field. A few people that met 3-4 years ago have now turned into "thousands," to quote the Mayor. Gullo tried a concert there and lost 1/2 a mil, and the City didn't have the brains to keep the grass and sell it for sod....that's it, A SOD FARM. There ya go. A sod farm.
At least a sod farm would produce some revenue and it would be pretty in the meanwhile.
Matt's mud hole is only going to get deeper and deeper and the citizens of Ogden will be paying through the nose for generations to come for the actions of this incompetent and miss-directed group of wanna be developers.
The Rec center they are about to blow twenty million dollars on will be a huge and embarrasing white elephant for us to look at every time we drive through the center of town. Something we can remember this group of bozo's with.
Glenna what have you been toking? A dube? Do you know what is a dube? It is where you roll up some grass from your sod farm, and TOKe it. You must quit to save your soul or the powers that be will smite thee.
Looks like Lionel's going under a new moniker, "anonymous," but if he's smoking as much sod as it appears, his comments will pretty much be the same and we can spot him a mile away.
Dr. Ogden, you never cease to amaze me. You just have to be in some kind of DENIAL. Why don't you "attach" a copy of the "contract" that the Boyer Company had with the City that you claim. Also, where's the list of contracted developers and businesses that have jumped on board?
Godfrey "got the ball rolling?" Hell, the mayor can't even get this scheme up for a vote, the clock is ticking and our tax dollars are being flushed down the drain every second. If Boyer and the City did have a contract, as you say, how can Boyer just walk away from it? You need a class in Business 101 or Contract Law. There're some available during Summer Quarter at the college. If the Tram was running, you could jump on and ride it up there with the mayor and his bunch. Then maybe on to Snow Basin for lunch.
The mess you refer to was the mess that Godfrey and his cronies created when they improperly took money from the BDO and used it to tear down the mall, got entangled with the Woodburys and lost the lawsuite, and then put in all of these wild-assed conditions, like the $20 million rec center, ONLY DONE THE WAY THE CITY WANTS IT DONE, with no latitude allowed for sensible changes, and then got slammed with bonding conditions that a first year realtor would have been prepared for but what caught the Gang of 6 by surprise....because they're not professionals. Boyer, City Venture, a slew of developers, turned their backs on this mall project during the preliminary due diligence period when it became obvious that it was their risk (money, time)under the Gang of 6's terms, most of which are extremely unreasonable.
Remember the adage: location-location-location. People locate in desirable places, places that offer things to do, comfort, etc. For some reason, the Gang of 6 is going about downtown in reverse. That is, they want to build "pre-sold condos," before there's a reason for people to live there. Take a drive around some of the condo locations, 25th street, the old Ben Lomond, the old mall site, on any evening, say Wed. or Thur., about 8:00 p.m., and tell me what you see in those areas that would attract you or any family.
That's why the City should leave developing to the developers and turn their attention back to that which we elected them to do....and that's to govern the damn town!
All heat, no light; all hate, no create.
New comments are not allowed.