There are lots of things he doesn't like about CAFTA, he says in a nutshell, but it's nowhere near as bad as NAFTA, WTO or FTAA, he assures us. Besides, it'll deal a blow against those pesky Central American commies... right?. It's bad alright... but really not all that bad, he explains. He doesn't explain, of course his, and our US gummint's slavish support of Red China.
Before I go on to linking today's Rob Bishop commentary, however, I want to make note that The Std-Ex yesterday published a Lisa Roskelley report which elaborates on Rep. Bishops role in the House vote. Ms. Roskelley's article "frames" the CAFTA vote story nicely, I think, and sheds some interesting light on what happened on the House floor early Thursday morning. I'll incorporate some of her story here:
In a crucial House of Representatives vote early Thursday morning, Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, appeared in the yea column despite earlier opposition to the Central America Free Trade Agreement.
Bishop's affirmative vote gave the president's top trade priority the ability to pass 217-215.
"This is a referendum on our foreign policy more than it is on our free trade," Bishop said in a prepared statement Thursday.
Bishop was joined with a yea vote by his Utah House colleagues, representatives Chris Cannon, also a Republican, and Democrat Jim Matheson.
The two-page statement outlined Bishop's concerns about the trade agreement and his belief that the agreement is also a fight against communism in Central America controlled by Cuba's Fidel Castro and Venezuela's Hugo Chavez.
"No other potential trade agreement will have an anti-communist component," he said.
Bishop compared this agreement with others from the past -- he voted against the World Trade Organization and the Australia Trade Agreement -- and those in the future: "I also see no reason to support (Free Trade Area of the Americas)."
However, Bishop said CAFTA is a way for the United States to develop "inter-governmental cooperation."
His swing vote could be seen as part of the massive White House lobbying effort to get the legislation passed, but Bishop's chief of staff Scott Parker said that wasn't the case.
"There was lobbying from a number of groups: the White House, business, constituents (and) people representing those countries," Parker said, "but he just found the foreign policy part of the issue more compelling. Rob usually doesn't react too well to that kind of lobbying."
The executive branch has been said to be offering both threats and bribes for affirmative votes.
"He's shown in the past that he votes his conscience even when it means bucking leadership and the White House," Parker said of Bishop. "He's done it before and he'll do it again."
Many conservative Utahs had high hopes on this issue for Rep. Bishop, who's demonstrated a bit of a "maverick" streak of late. He'd already declared his opposition to CAFTA, before suddenly "pulling" his complete 180-degree turnaround. It appears however that the "lobbying pressure" may have been a little too much for the iconoclastic Rep. Bishop this time around, despite what his spokesman, Mr. Parker says. Hopefully Rep. Bishop will recover his maverick principles and get back to bucking leadership and honoring his conscience some time soon though, on other bills where the lobbying pressure isn't so intense as it was Thurday morning. Traditional conservatives of Utah certainly wish Rep. Bishop's conscience a full and speedy recovery.
You can read today's Rob Bishop "explanation" here. It really is quite "special," as the Std-Ex headline says.
The Salt lake Tribune Published a lucid editorial on the subject of CAFTA in yesterdays edition; and for something a little more "jagged," don't miss Billmon's general background blog commentary here.
Comments, gentle readers?
Don't let the cat get your tongues.
Update 8/01/05 2:14 p.m. MT: Jay Ivensen sounded off on this subject yesterday in a Deseret News editorial here.
32 comments:
Ah love pork. How many wagonloads do ya s'pose Rep. Bishop will be bringin' back to Utah when he wheels back home durin' the August recess? Ah kin already taste the burritos.
Bishop says in the Standard Examiner:
"I based my vote not on the benefits of more open trade, but on my desire to strengthen pro-U.S. democratic efforts in our region and combat the spread of communist and anti-American influence in our hemisphere. This is a referendum on our foreign policy more than it is on our free trade."
At what cost? Because this might cost. It might cost quite a bit. Maybe as much as NAFTA.
Even if Bishop is correct in stating that the referendum and his vote on it was motivated more by foreign policy ideology than free trade, the fact is that it is a Trade Agreement, and in so being will have an effect on the domestic economy, among other things.
For instance, one thing that does not seem to have been taken into account in the formation of these trade agreements is the economic disparity between us and the countries with which we form agreements. If a country that has an economy where one can live like royalty on $50 a month begins importing product to America, it stands to reason that the price of their product, produced by cheap labor, would be much lower than if the product were produced in America where the standard of living and wages are higher.
Therefore, American companies producing that product have a very clear choice---either to set up an overseas company where their labor costs will be equally low, or cut jobs, benefits, and company expense to the minimum and try to continue to produce that product here. Either way, American employees of those companies end up with less.
It seems that where this particular agreement will hit us hardest is iin agriculture. So we should really look at that. Do we want our food to consist mainly of imports from Central America? Do they practice bioengineering there, and how do we feel about that? What are their agricultural standards, and are they acceptable to us? These are the correct criteria upon which to base a Trade Agreement---not that of striking a blow at communism.
The opportunity to fight communism and anti-American sentiment in this Trade Agreement decision is grossly outweighed by the possible costs to America in terms of jobs and health, which is what Bishop should have been looking at first and above all else. Maybe he did, and maybe he is satisfied with the prognosis, but I would then prefer to hear about that and why he is satisfied that all will be well here at home with CAFTA, rather than the rhetoric that this is how we are fighting communism and anti-American sentiment. It is all very well to strike an ideological blow for freedom, but not when it is done at the possible expense of one's own power base, i.e., the prosperity and well-being of American citizens.
Awesome comment, Dian!
Welcome aboard Weber County Forum.
I've been fishing for intelligent commentators, and we've just taken a quantum leap with you, it seems.
Thanks for posting; and please check in often.
Rob Bishop went to a Texas-style pork barbecue last week in the House of Representatives, and it was pretty difficult for him to say he was on a "diet," when everyone else was already "heaping their plates," and helping themselves to "seconds."
I'll assume that Rob banked a few concessions in the process.
Rob was in a tight spot. Although I don't approve of what he did re CAFTA "on principle," the whole Bush/Delay/Hastert situation is so horribly corrupt, that even a decent guy like Bishop can be excused at least, for bringing some of the pork banquet home.
The vote was close; and Rob swung it. I do hope he bent his principles because he thought he could deliver something big to Utah.
Maybe he can assuage his conscience later.
I also agree with Dian. CAFTA will probly be as bad for America as NAFTA.
Bribes?
Oh my!
Welcome to America in the 21st century.
What we need in Utah, is somebody who knows which side the bread is buttered on.
This kid Bishop seems like a smart guy.
Thank you for your warm welcome, Rudi! I just recently found out about this forum, and have enjoyed reading the intelligent and articulate posts.
Looking forward to reading more!
I wrote about my personal experience with Central American poverty,
"Chiapas is the southernmost and poorest state of México, on the Guatemalan border. I stayed with a local family in Chiapas and traveled around the state for seven weeks in the 1990s. There is a constant problem with illegal immigrants crossing over from the Central American countries of CAFTA into the poorest part of México to take the safer and higher paying Mexican jobs. The border is considered impossible to police effectively, but INAMI (the Mexican immigration service) and the army try to keep illegal migrants out. Tourists oftentimes travel far into the interior to find an office that is not so suspicious to extend visas."
http://www.57wild.com/weblog/archives/000121.html
We have a couple of "studies in contrast" here. The first is Bishop's maybe most central rational on his CAFTA vote change, that being the "hit" against Communism, while, to paraphrase Rudizink, "our lavish support of Red China" continues on, 1/2 way around the world. Most likely a numbers game: Red China-billions; Central America & Castro-millions.
Secondly, reading the quality post of Dian Woodhouse, whom, if it's the same Dian that I think it is, runs a fine booth at Ogden's Farmer's Market dealing with old Ogden folklore, as opposed to suffering the indignities of the president's foolish posts. That's a far better trade than the Jazz made this summer for their new point guard.
My apologies for changing this thread's theme, but there's one local point of interest that needs mention: This past Tuesday, the City Council, in its infinite wisdom, increased the distance between Group Houses from 660 feet to 1000 feet, thereby insuring that only one Group House per city block would be permitted. The Mayor's reasoning is that with the less densified buildings that hold recovering addicts, the physically challenged, etc., neighbors can now gather on their porches and walk across the street to "borrow a cup of sugar." Who says that the Mayor isn't paying attention to Ogden's most pressing problems?
I clicked one of your google ads in the right column and came up with this very disturbing article. CAFTA is just part of a bigger "globalist" plan to deprive America of its sovereignty.
The article.
Rob Bishop played right into the hands of the "one-worlders." Wake up, people. The neoCONS and the multi-nationaal corporo-fascists are out to take away your freedom and turn you into serfs.
It is conforting to know that OUR representative is so attuned to the wants and needs of his senior GOP big wigs in congress that he would throw OUR interests to the dogs in favor of their desires.
Dontcha just love representative government in its current incarnation?
We need to rethink where the hell we are coming from and start throwing these neocon so called republican bastards out of government.
I say vote and make it count. The ballot box is the only solution to this mess we are all in at the hands of these immoral arrogant dogs.
This incidently comes from some one who in his foolish youth was in the Weber College Young Republicans! Thank the lord for evolution or I would still be wandering in the wilderness...
Is Dian Woodhouse related to Irene Woodhouse?
Irene was an absolutely wonderful lady and historian. She wrote a column in the Standard called "Ogden Anecdotes" which was my very favortie part of that paper for a long time.
She was the most knowledgable person around about the history of Ogden and Weber County and had a way of presenting it that was fun and informative. She was one of my fav's. As I recall she was also a distant relative although I can't quite remember the connection.
Unfortunately Irene graduated from this earth school a few years ago and left a huge hole that has not been filled. I hope that this Dian is related and can some how carry on Irene's tradition of telling us about our history.
Yes, I am Irene Woodhouse's daughter. My husband and I decided to move back to Ogden, (I lived here until college and then lived in SLC,) in 1999.
Insofar as carrying on Irene's tradition---she was the real historian, not I. However, my husband and I have reprinted her book, "Ogden Anecdotes." This is not her columns, but a book she wrote about Ogden history. We decided to market it at local bookstores, and are selling it also at the Farmer's Market.
She would be so happy to know that she and her work are appreciated! It makes me happy too, because it was important to me personally that it be accessible to the people of Ogden, and positive responses like yours to her work indicate that the reprint was a good thing to have done.
Enough about me. Back to the main issue of the possibility of being sold down the Panama Canal for a plate of pork. I hope that wasn't what really happened--those with "anti-American sentiment" would be very pleased if that was what actually went on.
Dian
I'm Glad to know Irene's work will once again be available. I am anxious to get a copy. Can you email me with info on when and where I can get one? tom@rockmill.com
I think we might be cousins. I have hundreds of them around town!
Hey Tom O:
Check the sidebar on the right side of your screen. I've had Woodhouse Publishing's "Ogden Anecdotes" ""order button" ready for your use for almost a week now. Use it; and use it often.
I'd planned to introduce it with a lead article, but it seems you and Dian beat me to the punch on this with last night's discussion, while I was up doing chores at the ranch over the weekend.
I'm very proud to say Weber County Forum is an online source for Dian's mother's book. It's the "hands-down best primer on Ogden history and culture that exists, and a must resource for anyone who's truly interested in the factors that make Ogden the unique society and place that it is.
Perhaps a well-heeled guy like you could find it in his heart to order a half-dozen copies and donate a copy to each of to the Mayor and city council, so they can "bone up" on the concept of why Ogden City will never be transformed into a Provo clone. Don't forget to order a copy for your own private stash. It's truly a great work.
And Dian, thanks for introducing yourself to the board. I would have considered it bad form to have revealed your private information on a public blog myself, and am delighted that you took it upon yourself to let the gentle Weber County Forum readers know who you are.
Having observed your clear and articulate posting several time here this week, it ought to have been obvious to anyone who's familiar with Irene Woodhouse's writings, that you are definitely a "chip off the block."
I'll add, parenthetically, that I've added an Acrobat Reader-formatted chapter-one preview above the order button for your perusal.
Well Rudi, I only look at your blog out of blood lust! If an article or comment isn't skewering the good Mayor and his team at city hall it just seems to go right on by me!
I am really looking for that mother of all posts that reports the mounting for display of the Mayor and his posse at the Dinosaur park where they belong as an example of how terrible the past was.
Hey Rudi:
Why would this Owens guy want to waste his money buying books for the city council? Hell, most of em can't read otherwise they wouldn't be passing all these nonsense bills that the big guy on nine keeps shoving under their noses ten minutes before they vote!
I've certainly enjoyed the sensible and well crafted posts over the last few days. Breathing a big sigh of releif that the old crazys are no more. Now, this is what a blog's all about....good hard civil debate, dialogue, that sort of thing.
Whatever you've done, Rudi, a tip of the hat. We all appreciate your many hours and the efforts you provide. Your product should be respected. Thanks, pal.
I don't see any dialogue. Just a bunch of whiners. Can't have it both ways.
That's much better, anonymous.
Cut out the personal attacks and ad hominems, And we'll all be intersted in reading your comments.
Keep it clean and civil, and I won't have to sick my Spambot onto your posts.
There's plenty of good dialogue here, BTW.
We're just waiting for you to offer something useful.
Your last was marginal at best.
There is? Your right there is, but not if I can't post. Just because I don't agree with most of these folks I get booted off. Your the one who was pleading for people to kick it up a notch, and to post, because no one was posting. You couldn't understand why so many people were reading, and not posting remember? I will keep it cleaner, but I don't think it was that bad. You can not have it both ways. Personal attacks on bloggers, personal attacks on anyone associated with mayor Godfrey. I have only seen 1 reprimand on personal attacks on the mayor with 100's of personal attacks against him from bloggers. Help me out what gives? I have offered plenty useful, I'm told anyways! Just because these guys whine(ec) doesn't mean they are the only ones reading. God bless Ogden!
Your problem. so far, has been your ad hominems and potty-mouth in the past.
I have no problem with leaving your posts here, so long as you remain relatively civil, and advance a little rational argument from time to time..
It would be nice also, if you'd address specific issues with argument and rationale when you post.
Do we have a deal on this?
Deal
Hey, Tom Owens it is simply quite amazing that 2 people can see things oh so differently or maybe that is because I LIVE here, and you don't. I think Mayor Godfrey is on the verge of becoming one of the greatest Mayor's in our cities history, and when they dedicate that Gondola in Malan's Basin, and it soon connects to downtown, I'll bet you end up biting your tongue.
Done!
Welcome back to Weber County Forum.
I've now deleted your "handle" from my Spambot. "Mr. President."
You're back -- "on probation," by the way.
Now show us what you "gots."
The president's back,
and it's gonna mean trouble;
hey li di li, the president's back!
When ya see him bloggin,
better sign off on the double;
hey li di li, the president's back!
Ew, I know that he's been steamin,
Ew, I know that we'll be grievin!
Keep your finger on the delete button, Rudi, but let's give him and anonymous one more chance.
Post it up, boys, but keep it civil, eh.
Per Songmaster...
"Keep your finger on the delete button, Rudi, but let's give him and anonymous one more chance."
Ive done that. He's been given another chance. He'll be gone in a New York minute, though, if he goes back to his old ways, and starts up abusing the people here. Trust me on this.
I'm counting on him to advance his views rationally and logically, henceforth, in keeping with the grownup "tone" of this forum.
I have full confidence that "Mr. President" will "behave" from now on.
He's been duly chastened, and I'm sure he won't abuse the opportunity of once again posting his rational views regularly on what has become the most heavily comments-laden political commentary blog in the whole State of Utah.
Atta boy, Rudi. And I wish you well, president, for I have the feeling that beneath that hard exterior is a person who can give the blog some well reasoned controversy, some alternatives, and do it with aplomb.
If you were able to go back and review this "president's" past comments you would see absolutely nothing of value. Just an excessive amount of anal words putting people down in a pathetic attempt at humor. His favorite word used over and over ad naseum was variations on Fart.
I find it hard to believe that the last couple of posts from "president" and "anonymous" came from the same brains that were responsible for the aforementioned drivel.
On the one hand I say screw censorship but in this case I think Rudi did the right thing.
This "anonymous" guy seems to not be able to read. All he sees is posters who "whine." Maybe the fact that our posts are well written, well reasoned, well debated, and well thought out overwhelms him. I just don't see how people like Ozboy, Centerville Citizen, EC, Rudizink, Marko, Dian W, et al are "whinning." I think this anonymous guy operates from a position of desperation, not reasonableness. Rudi, keep your finger on the "kill" button.
P.S.
Also include Utmormon, Stan, Toad Hall, all the gang, to numerous to mention.
Might even throw the president in there for his last couple of posts.
So let me get this straight. This dude calling himself OzBoy can savage and ravage our good mayor and his fine staff with a little bit of word mongering, yet when President comes right out and says the mayor's opposition are a bunch of stupid old farts you censor him.
Is that fair? Insults are insults no matter how fancy the package they come in.
dear, dear francine, it isn't the good HARD argument, supported with facts and layed down in a decent script without personal barbs, like yours, is frowned upon. It's the individual insults and caustic language that this president uses every time anyone posts a reasonable shot at the mayor. He was censored for his perversion, not his provocativness. Re-read his posts in the archives. Does calling someone a "fart" deserve praise? We think not. Calling someone that is a "flap," not a response.
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