Thursday, April 19, 2007

Good News for Two Emerald City Property Owners

Emerald City receives an adverse ruling from the State Ombudsman's Office

The Salt Lake Tribune's Kristen Moulton reports this morning that Emerald City property owner Michael Moyal and his partner have prevailed in their case before Utah's Office of Property Rights Ombudsman, pursuant to their claim that Emerald City's recent 6-month Riverside property development moratorium is illegal under Utah law.

We quote from today's article in pertinent part:
OGDEN - Utah's property-rights ombudsman says Ogden illegally enacted a land-use moratorium, which it used as the reason for denying the owners of the Ogden River Inn permission to open a restaurant.
In an advisory opinion issued this week, the ombudsman office said Ogden did not have a "compelling, countervailing public interest"- as required by Utah law - when the City Council froze all construction activity in the Ogden River Project area for six months.
The council voted for the moratorium on Jan. 2, but backdated the effective date to Dec. 19.
At the time, Ogden planners argued the temporary land-use ordinance, or moratorium, was necessary so the city could prepare a mixed-use ordinance for the 60-acre redevelopment project.
"Ogden's findings cite a preference for one land use over another as justification for the temporary ordinance, and suggest that the matter is urgent, although the river-project plan, which is the basis for the temporary ordinance, was adopted 4 1/2 years ago," the opinion said.
It was signed by Brent Bateman, one of the attorneys in Utah's Office of Property Rights Ombudsman. Bateman will soon replace Craig Call as the lead state ombudsman.
The co-owner of the Ogden River Inn, Michael Moyal, who had requested the opinion, said Wednesday that he's hopeful the city will now work with him and his partner so they can reopen a long-closed restaurant.
City Attorney Gary Williams could not be reached for comment, but Council Chairman Jesse Garcia said he expects city officials will work with Moyal to resolve the issue.
Although this decision is merely "advisory," it's a step in the right direction for Mr. Moyal and his business partner.

Lacking cooperation from the Emerald City administration, the next step, of course would be the District Court. This ruling would, we think, provide a sound legal foundation for Mr. Moyal, in the event he is forced to seek legal redress through the courts. In addition, it would put the burden upon the Emerald City administration to demonstrate that the Ombudsman's ruling was in error. Among other things, Mr. Moyal and his partner may be entitled to recover attorney's fees, in the event of litigation, together with other damages they may have suffered as a result of the city's highly oppressive action.

Mr. Moyal and his partner say they do not wish to litigate. They merely want to exercise their property rights and open their restaurant.

Will Boss Godfrey and his gang of property rights meddlers wake up and smell the coffee? Or will Emerald City find itself bogged down in another round of expensive and unnecessary litigation, on the eve of the 2007 municipal election?

A Weber County Forum Tip O' the Hat this morning to Michael Moyal and his partner, Balwinder Singh Johal, for exercising their legal rights under Utah Law, and achieving this important interim legal victory.

Don't let the cat get your tongues, O Gentle Ones.

111 comments:

OgdenLover said...

It's about time Godfrey woke up and smelled the curry!

Anonymous said...

The ruling states that the city could not produce copies of the ordinance which was used against these young men...because there never was an ordinance in any form that could be used to rezone the men's riverfront property. The city (Godfrey) didn't want the men to open their Indian Cuisine restaurnat and fix up the buildings. Remember?

And, Godfrey promised Moyal 'to do everything we can to work with you', at a CC meeting recently. The lying thug.

Well, hopefully the young entreprenuers won't have to sue the city to be able to go forward with their plans to beautify the "Riverfront ' project.

I mentioned Moyal and Singh's "unwelcoming" by this administration at the CC meeting Tu nite. Two men who are willing and able to add to the project, yet they are unwelcomed...and Reid and Reid and Peterson have prime property with absolutely NO details required about what they intend to do!

I asked: Cronyism? Were any others aware that PRI was willing to sell that parcel of land at the junction? What has transpired with Bootjack and the Wall Ave property? The lease should have expired...so?

Of course, your mayor did not address one of these questions.

I hope the SE will have the guts to follow Moulton's lead and expose the hypocrisy and worse, of this administration, in the rotten way Moyal and Singh have been pushed out of their own property and dreams to contribute to the city.

The ombudsman's ruling noted that this 'moratorium' on building where Moyal's property is...was not urgent as the 'project' has been in the works for 4 1/2 years!
Plus there was nothing in any form that the city could make copies of to give to the ombudsman.

I'm disturbed that the CC voted on this non-ordinance and back-dated it to Dec! What the *&^%##$%%^&*& is going on?
Why does this Council appear to sleep at the wheel?

No wonder Ogden is veering into a chasm....from which there may be no return.

Anonymous said...

Once again I'm impressed by the Tribune's scooping the Standard-Examiner on this fascinating story. The Standard does a pretty good job at covering routine stuff, but too often, for some reason, seems to lag behind the Trib in reporting the more newsworthy developments. I guess you just gotta read both (plus good old Weber County Forum) to keep up with what's happening here in Emerald City.

Anonymous said...

Interesting news indeed. And good news for Mr. Moyal and his partner --- who, by the way, deserve some plaudits for not meekly rolling over to the wishes of the, as Ms. Moulton delicately put it, "upper-level administrators" in the the Godfrey administration. Took some nerve, I would think. This by the way is often how freedom gets defended and extended: by one person, or two, not particularly prominent or powerful, not necessarily looking for a fight, but who decide enough is enough and say "No. We won't." I don't want to go overboard on this. Western Civilization As We Know It isn't at stake at the Riverside Inn and those opposing allowing Mr. Moyal to open his business aren't Nazis or worse. Nevertheless, there's a little bit of liberty at stake here, and Mr. Moyal and his partner have decided to defend it. Good for them. May they prevail.

What I find surprising in the Administration's actions here is this. At the Council and Planning Commission meetings I attended where Mr. Moyal spoke on this matter, the Mayor and administration spokesmen responded the administration's position was that it was trying to help Mr. Moyal and his partner, trying to prevent him from losing his investment on a business [restaurant] that would not, could not succeed in the buildings he owned because of the bad reputation those buildings acquired [transient housing, drug involvement] under previous owners.

Now, the administration is free to advise, urge, cajole entreat Mr. Moyal on this matter. But it is not free to compel him to agree that the business cannot succeed unless he replaces the buildings first. He is the entrepreneur here, not the mayor. He is putting up his own money to finance the restaurant he wants to open. He is taking the risk, not Mayor Godfrey. He may be wrong. The restaurant may fail. In which case, he will lose his investment. But that is his decision to make, not the Mayor's.

Really odd when you think about it. A Republican mayor telling an entrepreneur that he cannot assess risk, invest his own money in his own property if he thinks the risk worth the rewards, and launch a business [not banned by existing zoning] in a building he owns because the mayor thinks the business will fail.

Aren't Republicans supposed to be the party of entrepreneurship? The party that looks to the market as the most effective means of regulating business activity? As the party that likes to talk... and oh, God, they do talk about it, endlessly... about "getting government off the back of business?" And here we have a Republican Mayor claiming that no, the entrepreneur shouldn't be allowed to invest as he sees fit; the government should decide what a prudent investment will be for him.

They're raising a strange breed of Republicans in Ogden these days....

But we can't lay this one entirely at the feet of the Mayor. The Council went along with the [partly retroactive] moratorium on construction in the River Project RDA area. This raises other questions: is the Council getting good legal advice from its sources? Is it getting good policy advice from the Administration [which proposed and strongly backed the construction moratorium]? Should the Council be more willing to exercise its independent judgment in re: administration proposals?

Much of the problem, if there is one, and there seems to be, probably lies in what Dan S. pointed out some time ago: the members of the Council are only part-time officials, while they are facing proposals developed and promoted by the administration's full-time research and policy staff. Given the limited resources the Council seems to have to develop independent sources of information and policy recommendations, it seems the cards are too often stacked in the Administration's favor.

I don't know how to fix that. Full time elected city councilmen? Or at least a significant increase in Council staff to enable the Council to independently review administration proposals? I don't know. But it seems worth thinking about.

Anonymous said...

Dan S

The situation with the Standard -vs- the SL Tribune in covering Ogden city government is simply about curiousity and good reporting.

The Tribune has it, and the Standard doesn't.

Kristen Molten is a talented and competent reporter, Scott Schwepke aint! She digs for the truth, he doesn't. She works for serious editors and news people, He works for accountants from Ohio.

If you want to know the truth about Ogden's government read the Salt Lake Paper.

Anonymous said...

Curm:

Excellent points. I was in the room when the Council voted (with Jeske dissenting) for the moratorium, and I think I stated previously that I'm not sure how I would have voted in their place, given what I heard that evening. But if the full story had come out, including the potential legal issues, I suspect that the majority of the Council would have voted differently.

One fundamental problem here is that the Council has to rely on administration officials being reasonably honest and professional. What we're learning is that under this administration, honesty and professionalism are in short supply. Unfortunately, the same is happening with the two new zoning ordinances (sensitive area and mixed use) that the administration wants the Council to adopt.

The other fundamental problem seems to be that this administration wants only large developments downtown. It's leaving no room for small property owners. Yet ironically, it's a diversity of small businesses that potentially makes a downtown area interesting.

I should add that I love Indian food and I certainly hope the restaurant opens soon and is successful.

Anonymous said...

Oz:

I'd say read both papers. The SE prints much about Ogden in general and even Ogden government that does not rise to the level of "interesting enough to print" for the SL Trib.

Absolutely, the SE got skunked on this one by a day. [I suspect they'll have the story, or some version of it, tomorrow. I wish I could be certain of that, but I no longer can be since the SL Trib notified its readers, in another Moulton story, that Ogden had put up a municipal court building as security for a HUD loan of a couple of million to finish mall redevelopment work on time. SE readers still don't know that --- though WCF readers do. But I'd be surprised if the SE didn't have the ombudsman's report in its next issue. We shall see....]

Anonymous said...

While we're at it, talking newspapers and zoning and such like, there is a front page story in today's SE that is not wholly unrelated. Link here.

Here is the headline and the opening graphs:

Landslide Layton topic
Thursday, April 19, 2007
By Bryon Saxton
Standard-Examiner Davis Bureau

Residents fear development will trigger a new one

LAYTON -- A proposed residential development near Heather Drive has about 100 area homeowners "pretty nervous" over its potential to create another landslide.

The 70 acres of farmland proposed for development is south of Antelope Drive at 2000 North and 1450 East, on the backside of Heather Drive.

In August 2001 the Heather Hills subdivision experienced a landslide, resulting in three homes being demolished and three homes having to be relocated.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure the Council needs a pass because they are not a full-time entity. They knew what was required when they campaigned for our votes.

Some who appear to be overburdened need to get their priorities straight. Get off a couple committees, give up some other activities for the duration of their terms.

It takes a heap of studying to learn all the facts necessary , and when this Council is BURDENED with Cook, who works for Godfrey, and a disengenuous Montgomery and others who give a good sounding speil on whatever issue is important to the administration, then this Council better be on its collective toes.

ONLY Jeske voted against the mooratorium? Why only Jeske? Where was Amy, Doug, Susie? Why wasn't the Chair, Garcia, on the ball on this one?

HOMEWORK, HOMEWORK, HOMEWORK and QUESTION, QUESTIONS QUESTIONS!. Also, stop taking as gospel the c r a p spewed forth as 'truth.' Do your own digging, Council.

You can ask in experts in any field can't you? Zoning? Contract law?,

Anonymous said...

We need to have some kind of tribute to Kristin Moulton.

And I'd like to offer a different twist on Curm's comment above, about how Mr. Moyal and Mr. Singh "deserve some plaudits for not meekly rolling over . . ." and Dan’s statement that Godfrey is “leaving no room for small property owners” downtown.

Indeed.

But this is a symptom of a far larger problem. For every Mr. Moyal, there are 100 others who do not complain, but just go quietly into the night.

The larger problem is our bureaucrats have regulated this city out of business, to the point that other bureaucrats can then come along and claim they have to offer “incentives” to do business here.

So in one room of the municipal building, you have the Planning Department zoning the commercial parts of the city to death, in another room you have people maintaining the highest taxes and fees in the Intermountain West, while across the hall you have the Business Development office offering incentives consisting of . . . wait for it . . . pullbacks of taxes and regulations.

Think of it! What was the six month river project moratorium for?? It was to wait for Montgomery to have time (in addition to the 4½ years he already had) to issue another fifty pages of codes so people could develop the river property that the city confiscated from the previous owners!! Yes, we can’t develop property without codes here in the Kingdom of Ogden. You people who want to develop your property – STOP!!

Like I have said, we need to get the city out of the picture. Local government is 100% of the problem, or close to it

And pity all those who have been screwed like Moyal, but who didn’t have the brass to complain like he does. They are many.

Anonymous said...

Observer 1:

You wrote: I'm not sure the Council needs a pass because they are not a full-time entity.

I didn't suggest giving the Council a pass. They voted for the construction moratorium [Jeske excepted]. But I'm more interested in looking at what problems there may be making it difficult for a council --- not necessarily this council, but any council --- to be able to evaluate an Administration's --- any administration's --- proposals effectively and independently. Particularly part-time Council members with limited staff support. Saying members should put in more time, digging out information on their own time and with their own resources does not seem to me to be a solution to the problem.

Dan S.'s point above about the avalanche of information that comes to the council via Administrative presentations being, often, on its face, pretty convincing is a good one. The presentation on the construction moratorium is a good example. [I was at the same meeting, and like Dan S. I'm not sure how I would have voted on the matter given the Administration's presentation and the absence of other information.] Seems to me the Council needs more resources at its disposal so it can generate its own information, can vet in a serious way administration proposals that may need vetting, so it can determine for itself on the basis of its own sources whether Administration proposals are wise or not. When the council holds work sessions in preparation for votes, the presentations and explanations are as a rule made by Administration spokesmen. Work sessions, Council sessions, most of the "information" comes from the same source. The Administration.

I don't think it's healthy for the Mayor and Council to be in a constantly adversarial relationship. And I know most of the Council members I've talked to don't think that's healthy. But for the Council to fulfill its oversight function, it should --- I'd say it must --- approach major administrative proposals with a healthy dose of skepticism. [And not because at the moment such proposals come from the Godfrey administration... though it would be reasonable given that Administration's performance in office so far to crank up the level of skepticism a bit because a proposal comes from Godfrey.] The Council has to provide a checking oversight function regardless of who sits in the Mayor's office.

And please note, that does not mean the Council's default position on Administration proposals should be opposition. It should be instead: "We'll take it under advisement." And then spend, if necessary, as much effort vetting the proposal as the Administration did putting it together. That's what the Council can, in most cases, not do now. It does not have the resources.

If it did, then much of the time [I imagine] it would end up saying: "OK, mayor X, we've looked at your proposal. We had our people go over it and try to find holes in it. We've looked into the costs and consequences. And having done all that, we think it's a damn good idea. We'll adopt it." Or not. But at the moment, I think the Council is out-gunned in terms of resources to do what it ought to do with Administration proposals.

Will fixing the problem cost more money? Probably. Taxpayer money? Yes. To which objections I'd reply: What's the cost of not doing it?

Anonymous said...

Let me add that what we are talking about here is hundreds of pages of codes before someone can develop commercial property. Residential property is another matter, and raw recreational land another. People will argue we need all this regulation to stop “trashy development,” but we already have codes against public nuisances. Why do business in Ogden when you have to wade through all this regulation when you go elsewhere and do business easily? That we have any business at all here with all these codes show how desirable Ogden really still is.

RudiZink said...

We heartily disagree, Curmudgeon.

We think the council should approach proposals from Boss Godfrey and his minions with the same attitude which has been reluctantly adopted by many of us in the community:

"We're dealing with a known con-man; and we should act accordingly."

The council's attitude should go WELL beyond mere skepticism, we think.

As for the Moyal matter, there are aa least a couple of things the council should do immediately to mitigate prospective damages (besides offering Mr. Moyal full cooperation.)

1) Put an item on calender for the next council session, to consider repealing the moratorium ordinance;

and,

2) Immediately and entirely cease taking legal advice of any kind from Gary Williams.

Anonymous said...

Funny how you again twist this to blame the administration when the City Council actually enacted the moratorium.

Twist Twist Twist, as usual

Anonymous said...

Responding to a question at WSU about the State Office of Education’s extensively-researched study that determined giving WSU land to Chris Peterson would not be in the best interests of the community, Matt Godfrey said, “I think there’s a lot of farce in all that, in all that’s gone on in that whole study, and that whole process. And so I think that will work itself out and then decisions can be made.”

Yes, I can see why some people support Godfrey. The man’s a genius.

Anonymous said...

This issue of blaming the council vis-à-vis the mayor and whether they should spend more time, do more research, etc. etc., for me has a simple answer, but it will take some effort to explain why it is the solution, why it will work, and why it will actually provide them with more time than they have now. I haven’t decided whether to explain it here, or with Dorrene, or by speaking to the council, or what. The key issue is the way Staff has engineered the system for 25 years to work to their advantage and how to undo that.

But the fault is not the council members'. I stress, we need to make sure we help people like Dorrene, Amy, Sue, Jesse, and on occasion, Doug, feel appreciated. Without them, our hot air would all fall of deaf ears.

RudiZink said...

Notwithstanding the fact that your above comment smacks heavily of the "blame the victim" mentality, detractor, you do reveal one fundamental truth.

Our city council seems sometime like the perpetual victim who gets mugged every night when she take a stroll in a dangerous park after dark.

There's an old folk ax which ought to be considered by the council:

"Fooled me once, shame on you. Fooled me twice, shame on me."

Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Rudi:

Well, Rudi, we'll agree to disagree on this one. 80% of what comes from the Administration to the Council is the ordinary garden variety stuff that is non-controversial, the kind of urban governmental housekeeping that has to happen to keep the city functioning.

You know I think the Mayor is, not to put too fine a point on it, "ethically challenged" in the conduct of his office. But it would not serve the city well for the Council to oppose something merely because it came from the Godfrey administration. It's done some good things. If it makes it easier, think of Godfrey as the stopped-clock of Ogden: even it will be right twice a day.

Heightened skepticism, yes. Automatic opposition based on the source of a proposal, no. Like it or not [and I don't particularly], Mr. Godfrey is Mayor, put in that office by vote of the people. And the city has to be governed, things have to be done day by day, week by week, to keep the city operating, and many of them, the Mayor has to do. Opposition for opposition's sake would not serve the city well.

There are two checks against the damage a Mayor, if he acts unwisely or unethically, can do to a city. One is the oversight of the Council [and I've talked about why I think the Council is too often out-gunned by the Administration in that regard] and the other is the ballot. The people's votes put Mr. Godfrey in office. They can take him out of that office the same way. And I hope they will.

But until that happens, he's Mayor, put in that office by vote of the people, and it would not serve Ogden well to oppose all he does or wants to do merely because it's him that wants to do it.

RudiZink said...

We'll meet ya halfway, Curmudgeon.

We'll concede its ok for the council to let down their guard during administration awards of boy scout troop medals and other honoraria.

Anonymous said...

good to see that someone sees through the smoke screen at the Ogden Planning department.
They have had 4 1/2 years to come up with a plan and have yet to exercise their cranial matter to do anything but play heavies with the good citizens of this fair city (with an odor crisis).

Anonymous said...

There is NO ordinance in a form that can be copied...so how could it have been voted on? Except through the chicanery from Godfrey and sycophants? The council was told a convincing story and 6 bought it!

I still say....if the Council (collectively) can't find the time to read, question, TAKE UNDER ADVISEMENT (which, Curm, is a good stall)....then give up some extra curricular activities, committees, etc that may be taking up too much time. Time that needs to be spent studying the issues.

Again I ask of the Council....why can't you bring in experts in zoning, contract law, and other areas? Relying on Williams and Cook, and the administration, doesn't seem to be such a good plan, does it?

And, Curm, please stop with the "fairness act" and dang fence sitting...you'll get splinters in your bum!

Anonymous said...

AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL OGDEN CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS:

I am frankly very disappointed in every member of the Ogden City Council because every one of you voted YES Tuesday night on the tax increment $1 million giveaway to Mel Kemp to increase his rent income...after he had already been given $2 million TIF.

Did you understand that this million was going to Kemp? It has nothing to do with Adam Aircraft.

When will you people ever understand that tax increment is property tax that belongs to Utah taxpayers that should be used in the normal course of business to pay salaries and other costs of government.

Quit listening to the Ogden RDA Director and hired guns that keep telling you that awarding TIF is not giving anything away. THAT IS A LIE! YOU ARE BEING USED.

When will you City Council members ever understand that TIF is a giveaway of taxpayer dollars!

And 100% of you voted to award tax revenue bonds for the food service company to move to Ogden. That is another giveaway of tax revenue that the City will not be getting to use for purposes of government.

Everyone of you just voted to give away $3 million plus of monies that rightfully belong to taxpayers to be used in the normal operation of City business.

I find your actions incredible. What does it take to get through to you?

There is no point in coming to a City Council meeting to have 3 minutes to give our opinions on issues when you usually vote on the motions before we even get a chance to speak.

I am thoroughly disgusted.

Anonymous said...

Observer:

Fairness is not an act. I don't consider being accused of being fair, or trying to, a criticism. I consider it a compliment, for which thank you.

Nor am I "fence sitting." We have problems in Ogden City government. Some of them are traceable to people in office, such as our ethically-challenged Mayor [who we put in office with our votes, Ob]; some of them traceable to systemic problems that are independent of the people in office [like Councils having little staff support with which to deal with proposals drafted, supported and presented by the administration's full time paid professional staff]. Both problems need thinking about and need addressing.

I'm curious, what "committees" and "extra-curricular activities" you think Council members should quit in order to have more time to devote to vetting administration proposals on matters, many of them, which are quite technical and require substantial expertise to understand, much less critique? And who is going to pay these outside experts you want the council to call in? These outside experts in zoning, contract law, etc? Those kinds of people ... expert witnesses essentially... generally don't work for free and they don't get paid peanuts. And they would have to devote a significant amount of time to studying matters on which the Council wanted their input before they reported to the Council. The City already has experts on zoing and contract law already on the payroll. They work for the Mayor. Perhaps the Council should have substnatially greater resources [financial] at its disposal to do things like that... which is one of the things I was suggested above. [Better be careful: people will start accusing you of trying to "act fair" by agreeing with me about this....]

Mayor Matthew Godfrey Parody said...

.
Why Weber State University is a Farce

On 4-16-07, I held a Q&A with the students of Weber State and I kept using the word “farce.” Actually, you can read the whole thing here. Just do a search of my Q&A for the word “farce” so you can see for yourself what I was saying.

What I was referring to, is the fact that after 40-50 years of sitting on a bunch of bench land, now that Chris Peterson wants it, they don’t want to let him have it. Here they want to build classrooms and stuff like that on it, but they won’t let him build on it? Give me a break. Buildings are buildings. What’s the difference?

Besides, Weber State doesn’t need the land. In my Q&A, I told them where they can put their new classrooms. I told them where to put their parking, where to put their students, what to do with their teachers, and what they could do with all their damned administrators. I have everything all figured out for them. If you don’t believe it, read it for yourself.

But rather than use my plans, they want to have their own plans! How arrogant is that? That’s why their whole process is such a farce.

In one place, I said we need the gondola from downtown because we don’t want restaurants and commercial development up on the bench. Then later on, I said we need to have restaurants up there for Chris Peterson. If you do a search for “restaurants” you can see why.

In one place I said we don’t want students to have to walk up the hill to go to class, but then said Chris Peterson will build dormitories up on the hill for them to walk to. If you do a search for “walking” and then “additional dorms” you’ll see why.

One of them asked when Chris will be done with his plans. I know everybody is interested in that question, so here is my full quote:

When do I think we’ll hear from Chris Peterson? I don’t know, as soon as it’s done. I know, it’s frustrating for me as well to wait and just keep, you know, and hoping the plan’s going to come out next month or in a few weeks. I don’t know. I asked him that two weeks ago. I said, “When do you think it’s going to be done?” and he goes, “Well the challenge is that until it’s done it’s not done, and we keep going through iterations and improving this and that, and it is complete I can’t put a timetable. I can’t say well next week I’ll give you the version I really like, because it’s iterative. I just don’t know.”

Just go to the document and you can read that quote for yourself.

So there you have it. I offered them a plan to turn WSU into a world class university if they will just take Chris up on his offer, but they won’t do it! It’s amazing the bozos they get to run a university these days, to say nothing of the farcical state officials who did that study, and how much of a farce the whole thing is, especially when I have it all figured out for them.

You know, what I should do is pass a law that forces you all to read my Q&A as a condition of me letting you live in your houses. Somebody has to raise the bar around here.

Anonymous said...

dorothy-

You realize, I think, that the vote Tuesday night would have been at least 4 of the Council for the $3 mil giveaway even if the new council people had voted for good government.

The ones voting for would have been Garcia, Safsten, Stephenson and Wicks because they have been on the prior Councils that have blindly followed to get us in the debt crisis we are in.

Anonymous said...

I am pleased as punch Little Matty Gondola Godfrey was given a public pulpit on which to spout his lies and fantasies and which are now available (sic is they were) for the world to view. Hi-larious! Farce! Farce! I, Gondola Godfrey, know what's good for you, a state institution of higher learning! I think your land-use study was a farce! I, who wants to squander 160 acres of public open space for 1/10th the cost of an "urban gondola" thinks your studies are a "political farce"! Wayne Peterson and his Squirrel Patrol would have built dorms, but WSU balked! WSU could be a "cool" university if only it had a circus ride leading from it to from downtown and servicing no one! Little Matty and his severely crippled sense of PR thinks castigating WSU administrators for not knowing what is good for themselves -- when if they'd only let Wayne Peterson steal their land for pennies on the dollar, as certified by a $45,000 independent expert study, and put homes on it, their university could be epitome of "cool" and when Little Matty Gondola Godfrey travels to Ann Arbor, Michigan, students will say, "Oh, yeah! Weber State! The school with the gondola!" -- is a wise tactic in changing their disposition toward his larceny! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! I haven't laughed this hard since the G-Train Wilkerson letter. Priceless! Little Matty, duly referrenced Gondola Boy Mike Dowse (jackass!), and Wayne Peterson's Squirrel Patrol (Nuts! Get 'em!): My sincere thanks. Keep it up! Seriously.

Anonymous said...

Godfrey's Dream for your degree, WSU students and grads:

I have just read the text of Mayor Godfrey's speech and Q and A session at Weber State. Much in there is the usual innacurate drivel, such as people being able to fly into SL International airport and take the train to the Ogden Gondola. [Apparently the Mayor has not yet figured out that Frontrunner will not go to the Airport in Salt Lake City.] But let that go.... We've been over that before with his Lift Ogden Amen Chorus.

What struck me this time was the Mayor's vision for what an education at WSU, a WSU degree can mean if only he gets his way on the gondola/gondola scheme. It will mean this: that when you say you have a degree from Weber State as you hunt for a job in your field, or apply for graduate work elsewhere, people will say "Weber State.... isn't that the college connected to a resort that has a gondola?"

Wow. I know that'll get your foot in the door at Apple Computer or Bank of America or Cal Tech or NASA or the Justice Department or wherever it is you want to go for work or to futher your education after graduating from WSU: you went to the school "connected to a resort that has a gondola."

Man alive, they'd have to be fools not to hire you when they realize that.

This --- this --- is the vision of Ogden's Mayor for WSU grads. My god....

Anonymous said...

Yeah...not only that, it was apparent that Godfrey didn't major in English....his 'mastery' of the language was em barr a sin!

BTW....I was at the County Republican Convention tonight. There was quite a crowd....is that why I missed Matt?

Anonymous said...

Let's get back to Mike Moyal and his partner.

Do I have any bets that Ogden City will really abide by the decision?

My bet is that Moyal will still have to sue to get permits to accomplish what he wants to do.

Anonymous said...

Yep, Don't Trust......this gang of strong-arm thugs practice disscrimination.
Women, homeless, poor, minorities...and having an East Indian offering Indian cuisine just ain't fitting into that elite, cool and sexy image numbnutz is pushing for

I hope Mike and partner DO sue....for a lot! Like all the lost business they've suffered by these delays.

Anonymous said...

Don't Trust the Buzzards:

Well, it wasn't a judicial decision. It was an advisory opinion issued by the state ombudsman who looks into such matters. As such, it is not immediately legally binding. Though I think as a matter of equity, the ombudsman's opinion is the correct one. Certainly does bulk up Mr. Moyal's argument, though, and I hope the Mayor will abandon his attempt to dictate to Mr. Moyal the terms under which he will be permitted by the Mayor to open his restaurant [i.e. in an entirely new building rather than in the building Mr. Moyal and his partner already own and want to refurbish, because... well because the Mayor wants a new building there --- if there was a smiley for "petulant child throwing tantrum and stamping foot" I would insert it here]. Having the Mayor decide how Ogden businessmen will be permitted to invest their own money in improving their own businesses permitted under existing zoning would be raising "the Nanny State" Utah Republicans seem so enamored of these days to absurd levels.

Oh, by the way, as expected, the SE this morning has the story of the Ombudsman's opinion that Ogden acted in imposing its retroactive construction ban on Mr. Moyal's property in the River Project RDA.

Anonymous said...

...and the Standard-Examiner buried the story on page 4C. Figures.

Anonymous said...

Dan S:

I'm not sure we can fairly call anything not printed on the front page of a section as being "buried." The SE carried the story, fairly longish one. That it was not front-page matter was a news judgment with which people can disagree, but it doesn't seem to me obvious beyond reasonable discussion that the story should have been front-paged.

The SE today did put, on the front page of the Top of Utah section, a story about the Council's work session last night, reporting that the Godfrey administration proposes to spend 300K on a high-crime task for for Ogden, and 200K "to build new homes and rehabilitate existing dwellings" on Jefferson Avenue, along with a federal grant for the same purposes. [Ah, election season. Ain't it grand?] Treating that as the more significant story and so deserving the front of section placement seems reasonable to me.

Incidentally, the TOU section also has a story about the Ogden/Weber Convention bureau dismissing its long-time president, a story of some importance locally.

Neither the Council work session story about the the Administration's plans to beef up police funding and housing funds, nor the Ogden/Weber convention and visitors bureau story were covered in the Salt Lake Tribune. Whatever its shortcomings, and despite it's sometimes being beat by the SL Trib on Ogden political news, the SE is still a necessary read to keep up on what's happening in Junction City.

Anonymous said...

From Schwebke's article I get the sense that Moyal and Singh had better be prepared to spend alot more on lawyers, none of the quotes can be interpreted as if the city will change anything without being instructed to by a judge. Knowing this administrations past, they'll fight and spend their way as far as possible.

Anonymous said...

Bill:

No argument from me. This administration is not particularly known for "doing the right thing" when it ought to.

Besides, it's really Mr. Moyal's fault. How dare he think he and his partner have a better business plan for their business than the mayor does! The nerve of the man.... He's been told the Mayor wants them to do something else than what they want to do with their own property and their own business using their own money. Can't they understand that the Mayor, who has no money invested in their plans, just naturally knows better what they should do with their money, because... well, because he's the Mayor. Surely that should be enough to convince any reasonable businessman in Ogden to abandon his own plans and business judgment and just defer to the Mayor instead, que no?

I wonder how the members of the Ogden/Weber Chamber of Commerce feel about Republican Mayor Godfrey's exercise in Soviet-era central planning applied to Mr. Moyal's business. I wonder which one of them will be next to hear that his business plan is all wrong, that their Republican Mayor has a better one for his business, and that he must.. must... submit to the Mayor's judgment on how to operate his own business.

As I said before, it's a strange crop of Republicans we're growing in Ogden these days....

Anonymous said...

Here's an interesting story about the cost of gondola routes in the Trib:

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_5709832

Some differences (not sure whether they are plus or minus) due to lack of ugly-ass poles sitting in the middle of urban thoroughfares, yet 2.7-mile route expected to cost at least $35 million.

Let's see: Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's urban gondola to nowhere is 4.5 miles long and has a heck of a lot of poles sitting in the middle of 23rd and Harrison (which UDOT will never allow).

But we would have the "coolest" university ever because it would have a gondola going downtown!

Read up on it, Little Matty Gondola Godfrey and Gondola Boy Mike Dowse (jackass!).

And reveal to the public Wayne Peterson's delay in bringing forth his proposed fraud and silliness is being severely complicated by Squirrel Patrol issues (Nuts! Get 'em!)

Anonymous said...

A very interesting article on the front page of the Tribune this morning.

Seems like our very own Boyer Company, yes the very same outfit that now owns the majority of what is important in Ogden, stuff that was supposed to be owned by the citizens - like the only real money producer BDO, and the company that has veto power over every single RDA project in the city - also is the landlord turned slum lord at Hill Field.

Yep, these very same titans that have a strangle hold on all of Ogden also control the military housing at the base.

Seems like folks out there are getting sick from mold and good old Boyer won't fix it. Boyer in turn calls those getting sick phony's that are just trying to scam them!

The part I liked the most is where Boyer got rid of their management partners because they were just too damned dillegent and quick in fixing complaints like this!

Of course this is a major disgrace to have a money grubbing outfit treat our military families so shabbily. Just imagine how they will be as landlords to civilians in Ogden.

See the article: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5710890

Anonymous said...

Ozboy:

Thanks for the link. I had not seen that story.

Here's a clip from it:

...Boyer - which had no experience managing large housing projects and didn't do a unit-by-unit inspection before bidding for the job at Hill - simply wasn't prepared to handle the work....
Though Hill officials technically have oversight over Boyer's management of base housing, a commander who oversees that supervision said his ability to respond to the complaints is limited.
"These homes no longer belong to the U.S. government," said Col. Harry Briesmaster. "We've given these homes to Boyer Hill Military Housing . . . they are the landlord. They're the primary owners."


Somebody tell me again what the Bush administration and Republicans keep insisting about the private sector being in all cases more efficient than government. I keep reading stories like this and forgetting....

Anonymous said...

Ozboy:

By the way, the Boyer/BDO deal was a pre-Godfrey city agreement, entered into by his predecessor. You can't blame Godfrey for that one.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand the current Federal administration is constantly pursuing RIF (reduction in force), particularly with the IRS, in favor of outsourcing. I have family members who work there who tell me of this. Is that what we want, non government employees handling our taxes? That scares the hell out of me. At least with Gov employees there are Gov standards for employees and who they hire.

A bit off the original topic, just responding to Curm's comments at 12:16 pm.

--Waterboy

Anonymous said...

Two things: One: Boyer will rent to the tenants of their apartments in the junction...they will sign up the renters and collect the rents...interesting?

Two: Mygawd, Curm...if you don't stop looking for a silver lining in every damn story the SE botches...I'm gonna snatch you bald headed!

Anonymous said...

Another thing, Curm....your senseless rants on Republicans is tiresome. what the hell do the Republicans have to do with slumlords...except that Godfrey likes to pretend that he is one!

Anonymous said...

Curm said:

Somebody tell me again what the Bush administration and Republicans keep insisting about the private sector being in all cases more efficient than government. I keep reading stories like this and forgetting....

Maybe the black mold toxins have gotten into your brain and made you forgetful.

Just lie down next to the pod, and you'll see things more clearly in the morning.

Anonymous said...

Still Steamed:

Outsourcing... or privatizing... a wide variety of functions normally and traditionally handled by government employees does seem to be a major them of the current Administration, and a recurrent theme of the Party to which he belongs. [See Waterboy's post above.] The SL Trib story on the privatizing of base housing at Hill AFB seemed not unrelated to that. Seems a reasonable connection to make to me....

When the SE muffs a story, editorial or anything else in my opinion, I say so. What I'm arguing against is what seems to me the irrational conclusion from its occasional muffs that Ogdenites should read the SL Trib instead of the SE to keep up on what's happening in Ogden. That's nonsense. Ms. Moulton does good work, and breaks stories now and than that the SE should be doing, but Ogden is now and will continue to be be a pimple on the rear end of Salt Lake City, newswise, for the SL Trib. Only point I made above, and it still seems a sound one to me.

By the way, I wonder why the SE didn't get the Hill AFB story. Davis County is a major part of its coverage area. SL Trib skunked the SE on that one too.

Anonymous said...

Fact Checker:

On behalf of those of us who have not been here long enough to remember previous administrations, thanks for the info re: Boyer and BDO.

Anonymous said...

From the SE's On Line Mid Day Update:

OGDEN -- Downtown Ogden will soon be blanketed with free wireless Internet service as part of a major partnership unveiled Friday between the city and XMission Internet. Within the next few months the service will be available throughout the downtown area including 25th Street, The Junction, Lindquist Field, Union Station, and the Marshall White Center. Eventually, services will be expanded to other areas of the city, said Pete Ashdown, president of XMission.

While the city isn't paying for the service, it is providing building space for XMission equipment and roof access for its antennas, said Mayor Matthew Godfrey....


Two observations:

1. This is a good thing for downtown, and so a good thing the Administration is doing getting behind it. Makes me wish I owned a laptop....

2. My my my, it really is election season, isn't it....

Anonymous said...

Curm,

Thanks for the report on the free wireless internet coming to Ogden. Meanwhile, in yesterday's news we read/heard that the Utah legislature is considering imposing fines on anyone who provides open wireless networks, since teenagers might use these to download pornography. Ashdown's response was that such a fine system would force him to shut down his free access zones. There's also a discussion of this on slashdot.

Anonymous said...

Dan:

Thanks for the links. I saw the story yesterday, but didn't know of the slashdot link.

Anonymous said...

Will free Wi-Fi Internet access be available to WSU students who ride the urban gondola on their way to and from classes, in their efforts to earn degrees from a university that has a gondola "planted" on it? Will my friends who went to Duke, Yale, Stanford and Harvard be envious of WSU grads because they attended an institution with a "gondola" stretched across a blighted urban thoroughfare to their campus and which purports to a non-existent resort? According to Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, "Yes!" Election season is a terrific thing (THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE), Curmudgeon, because Little Matty has become and forever will be Gondola Godfrey, and he can't get away from that albatross, no matter how many taxpayer-subsidized bowling alleys and wind tunnels he opens.

Anonymous said...

purports to serve...
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.

Anonymous said...

Fact Checker

The point is not that the BDO deal was done before Godfrey. Had it been done under his so called leadership the tax payers would have ended up with a lot worse deal.

Unfortunately under Godfrey, the half of the action that we originaly had is now pledged to the Boyer company and the wreck center. So he was able to screw the citizens out of the only profitable deal the city has. He took a half way good deal and totally screwed it up. This in spite of repeated promises to the citizens that we would never have to be liable for this off the wall abortion of a mall anchored by a bowling alley and arcade. Just one more mayorial lie and stupid deal his finger prints are all over.

This profit from the BDO was originally ear marked for our deteriorating infastructure which continues to rot under our feet with very little money in the kitty to pay for it.

The Boyer contract for the Mall, wherein they are 50% partners with the city, completely holds them free from any down side and losses. If there are any losses they will be borne totally by the citizens of Ogden, not Boyer. Some kind of genius 50 - 50 deal huh? Boyer can only win, the citizens have a huge potential for massive losses.

On top of that the genius brain trust that this little moron surrounds himself with not only "negotiated" this piece of crap contract with Boyer over the mall, they also ripped ten million out of the BDO funds to buy and destroy the old mall, thus taking it off the tax rolls. That resulted in a criminal investigation of the city by the Army and an eventual settlement that forced the city to bond to come up with the ten million plus interest to pay back. They also unilateraly tore down the Woodbury bldg which cost another five million to settle. These incompetents then bonded the city for twenty million to pay off these two legal fiascos. They then patted themselves on the back for being so brilliant!

If these clowns were in private industry they would be fired instantly and most likely prosecuted for criminal conduct.

So yes, the original BDO deal was not Godfrey's, but he was able to totally screw it up anyway.

Some hero you got there Fact Checker. Maybe you ought to do a little more fact checking.

Anonymous said...

I remember a few months ago at a gondola pitch meeting, a guy ran in and offered to install Internet WiFi for the whole city. Godfrey told him we were already getting that for free. Maybe this is it.

If true, and if high speed, I could cancel my cable Internet and save some money. Time will tell if it will be free, and reliable.

Xmission must have an angle - nothing is free - perhaps they bombard you with popup ads.

But if you have a computer with a USB port, you can stick in an antenna and do WiFi. And laptops with WiFi are only a few hundred bucks on Ebay.

Anonymous said...

Geek

I think if you read the fine print it aint totally free. I think it is just the first hour, and then you have to pay. Sort of a loss leader kind of deal.

Its great how that loser Godfrey horned in on the glory! This is a Pete Ashdown deal, its his company that is footing the bill, yet PeeWee puts himself out there as if it was his doing. The only thing the city is doing is offering up a little roof space for the antenna.

Look for even this "freebee" to some how turn into something different that what it starts out as. With Godfrey's finger prints on it you just know it will somehow end up with a little stink bomb in the middle. The guy and his circle of empty suits are complete liars and losers.

Anonymous said...

I propose the following exercise for Curmudgeon to consider: Little Matty Gondola Godfrey walks down 23rd Street from Harrison to Adams. He thinks long and hard, then he decides the only way to rid our town of the blight he witnesses -- since Ogden has been in an economic freefall for 50 years because of its lack of a railroad, directly quoting Little Matty -- is to build a circus ride over said blight to serve a non-existent castle that isn't there and never will be there, and much of this is due to Wayne Peterson's inability to field a competent Squirrel Patrol. Would you admonish him or would you provide us with more platitudes about evidence and eventualities that any public official may produce? Get real, clown, Godfrey has got to go; every lie, fantasy, fabrication, misappropriation and falsehood needs to be documented and made public so that he will lose in the primary. It's as simple as that: Godrey must lose or my town -- the town in which four generations of my family have thrived -- is toast.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Put your shoulder to the wheel, push along!
Do your duty with a
heart full of song!
We all have work!
Let no one shirk!
Put your shoulder... to... the wheel!
Choke the cack, anon.

Anonymous said...

how come you can call yourself 'anonymous' and get on our blog????

where the *&%$$^&&^% are you, Rudi???

anon...go thrill the pinkos on some other blog.

Anonymous said...

Dear Jason W.:

I am a little puzzled at your post addressed to me above since I am not now a supporter of Hizzonah's re-election, nor am I supporter of his gondola/gondola real estate specualtion pipe dream. Nor have I ever been.

Anonymous said...

Anon:

You wrote: Ogden cannot stay the same forever. Utah's population will double in the next 50 years. Embrace change because its coming anyway. Well of course change is coming. The question then is how does the city accommodate itself to change wisely, in ways that will increase the quality of life for current residents and new ones? That's what the discussion is about. Many of us are convinced that a mega-million dollar tourist sky ride from downtown to WSU [at the price of the city's largest park and nearly all of its public benchlands] will not improve life in the city, business in the city, the city's reputation as an outdoor activities destination, and it will create a huge financial burden if the up mountain gondola and Malan's Basin resort fail. [Nothing by way of the usual things required when examining the feasibility of projects like these has yet been produced by its advocates: feasibility studies, market studies, etc.] We think there are other ways, involving proven technologies and strategies, for the city to both accommodate and take advantage of the Front-runner driven growth. Unless of course you are one of the True Believer Lift Ogden Amen Chorus who insist that anyone who does not share your particular vision of how Ogden should accommodate growth is therefor opposed to all growth and [to use the Amen Chorus's favorite phrase], "against everything."

You also wrote: How many of you are contributing to the resurrection of this city.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you that the people I've worked with in SGO serve, and have served for years, on many public service groups, organizations, volunteer groups, city committees, etc. I think you'd be hard put to find another group of similar size doing more in that way. Once again, you seem to be drifting in the Godfrey Gondola Gang's propaganda claim that only people who think like they do are working to improve Ogden. Which is nonsense.

I'd add more, but I'm volunteering some time out at the nature center tomorrow and want to get a good night's sleep.

Anonymous said...

Why does it seem that Ogden City govn't is mired in antagonism? Council vs. Mayor; Mayor vs. Citizens; Citizens Vs. Council.

I have read all the blogs for the week and only a handful of entries here are actually constructive.

How many of you are contributing to the resurrection of this city. I hate to see cynicism destroy a what a positive spirit can create.

I live "below" harisson and have contributed to the rebuilding of this town. I love this town (alot better than Roy where we came from) and we are putting our money where our mouth is in making Ogden a great place to live.

Lets all put our shoulder to the wheel here and make Ogden a great place to live.

Someone quipped about the quality of life changing in Ogden. Ogden cannot stay the same forever. Utah's population will double in the next 50 years. Embrace change because its coming anyway.

(This comment is being re-posted once as a courtesy to an apparent newcomer. Please read our posting policy, anonymous. The screen-name "anonymous" is banned on this board.)

Anonymous said...

Ohh, no, I've upset Curm's delicate sensibilities: Your unending defense of and tolerance of clowns who advocate polar opposite positions you espouse is one of myriad reasons to give you shit (note proper use of prepositions); we kid because we love. Have a good night. Remember: THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE.

Anonymous said...

Rulon Yorgason stood before the Council, Godfrey and Patterson Tu night and reminded one and all that 'an employee of the city had been fired for taking a file to which he was not entitled'...that employee being Martinez.

Then Rulon went on to talk about someone else in the city gov't needing to be fired as fileS were also missing. Finally, after titillating the meager crowd, Rulon stated that files that belonged in the Recorder's Office were in the possession of one Scott Brown! Rulon said he'd put in a GRAMA for some records that were removed from the office.

I leaned over to Scott Schwebke and urged him to talk to Rulon about this 'scandal' in the Recorder's Office. Schwebke told me had better things to do! I suggested, again, that he speak to Rulon as this was a scandal...and was he going to let the Tribune break this story?

We had a few words...and after the meeting, Schwebke had the grace to apologize to me for his rude remarks. I accepted his apology.

My point here is, where is the story in the SE????

Godfrey, in his endearing style, used his 'administration comments time' to sneer...'here we go again. Always looking for a scandal..' and making Rulon out to be a fool. Then Godfrey holds up a 'file' and says to Rulon...
"here is the GRAMA you put in for dated April 11."

Now, isn't that intereting? Rulon never said WHAT file he'd wanted. But, Godfrey sent his henchmen to the (correct...Brown's??) office and found the request with Rulon's name on it and voila!!! retrieved the records Rulon had requested.

Now, why weren't those records given to Rulon FROM the Recorder's Office? Why did we have this sleight of hand trickery at the Council meeting?

Later, Curt Geiger !!! was talking to Rulon about those records. Why was Curt involved?

Perhaps he'll come on here and tell us all about how honest Godfrey's administration is because he's such an integral part of it.

So, Scott, you accused me of never saying anything good about you on here. I replied that I've complimented you when you've written a good story. This is late Friday night. I still haven't seen a story on the hanky panky in the Recorder's Office. Which will break the story first? The Trib or the Des News? Ch 5 ?

Anonymous said...

You know sharon, maybe its time that we start printing our own stories and have them inserted into the standard, just so they will know their is a watch dog group that knows more about what is happening in this city before they do!!!!

Anonymous said...

Well, the SE has two interesting stories today.

One is that the Board of Regents have finally issued a statement that WSU will absolutely hang onto their land! WSU says they've never received a formal proposal from Peterson!
What? Imagine that.

Now the water/sewer/infrastruscture problems in Ogden have resurfaced.

The tone of the reporting casts a negative pall on the Council for appearing to fight with the good mayor.

The Council is being very prudent in wanting to hire a consultant to take a modern technological look at the city's infrastructure and see just how to proceed.

I think the mayor is balking at spending 'the taxpayers' money' for this consultant because he doesn't want anyone seeing just how rotten things really are!

The Council has been waiting for the administration to give them current reports...and they haven't been forthcoming. Just like when Amy Wicks asked for an accounting of the mayor's little jaunt to gondola-land and expenditures on his visionary gondola!

It's good to see Bill Cook backing up the need for this consultant! That's his job and we're glad to see him do it.

This mayor can spend thousands, and millions of taxpayers' monies on his projects and dreams, but then he disengenuously parades his concern for the taxpers over fixing up rotting sewer lines.

One citizen is quoted in the SE story of having lived with 'low water pressure' for years. It would 'be nice' if that were fixed he opined.

How abut the residents on the East bench who have orange water?

This is so typical of Godfrey to withhold information requested by the Council. He says they've been given that information before. In bits and pieces?

Secrecy, lies, out of control spending and pushing that damn gondola on the TAXPAYERS for his own aggrandizement.

Council...keep pushing for that consultant. It will be $80,000. well spent for the health and safety of Ogden residents.

How can any new businesses dare to come here if they know of the rotten mess under their feet? Oh yeah, I remember now....forget the mess under your feet...keep your eyes heavenward for the saving grace of Ogden...a googy gondola gliding OVER and PAST your businesses.

Anonymous said...

For the record-

The day of the Council meeting, April 17, Rulon received a call about noon to pick up a response to a GRAMA request he had made the prior week when I was with him.

Rulon had asked me, as a favor, to go with him the prior week to look at the response to his first GRAMA because he had been told the bill for the request was around $100.00 and he wanted to be sure he had been furnished everything he had asked for.

The GRAMA documents he and I looked at were incomplete. He had not been furnished what he had asked for in his written request.

Per my instructions he put in another GRAMA request that day while I watched him.

The following week, on the day of the Council meeting he was called to pick up the Recorder's response.

Some of the documents missing in the response to the first GRAMA pertaining to the acquisition, grant and sale of the BIC building were furnished in the second request. If I remember correctly, the sale information had not been furnished.

The Recorder told us at the time of our first visit to her that she had copied everything in the files.

What she had copied were only pages of applications for Federal and State grants. The grant contracts were missing. There was no information at all on the BIC building.

I questioned her as to why she had copied only applications and she said she had copied what was in the file.

There is no question the files had to have been incomplete when she did the copying for the first GRAMA request.

Anonymous said...

Never has a GRAMA request been completed so fast.


This was a request made on April 11 according to the Mayor and it was furnished by noon on the 17th with 2 days included for a weekend.

Somebody must have been trying to cover their you-know-what.

Everybody put in their particular GRAMA and keep the Mayor scurrying.

Anonymous said...

sharon

Speaking of files--

Are you talking about the hanky-panky in the City Recorder's office or the Weber County Recorder's office?

Anonymous said...

sharon -

I understand that Curt Geiger is so far off base that he was talking to Rulon about Da Vinci files missing because the kids took them.

I don't think Rulon knew what Geiger was talking about.

But now I am wondering if Da Vinci's files have disappeared on purpose since Geiger is the new president of the Ogden Community Foundation??????????????

Where is Schwebke on this story?

Anonymous said...

Very interesting that Mayor Godfrey has the time to inspect the GRAMA requests....

most interesting. How can he take time out to tout the gondola or the other tax-payer paid things he does.

Anonymous said...

"Lovin This and Ogden Intrigue"

Yes, Your mitten salesman is the on paper Prez of the Ogden Community Foundation. Can you imagine those naughty DaVinci kids taking those files? What is this world coming to?

Nah, there is no cronyism in this administration. The fact that Peterson could take out a lease/option on prime property AND THE COUNCIL BE KEPT IN THE DARK AS TO HIS OWNERSHIP OF BOTJACK is just coincidental, isn't it?

Oh, and Reid and Reid getting first dibs on PRI's land at the Junction? Nope, I'm , like, so SHURE there is no cronyism in this administration.

Yes..I'm speaking of the CITY Recorder's Office where the 'files are not kept'...ask Cindy Mansell.

Of course, they may have been put back now that Godfrey's little ploy has been discovered and uncovered.

Anonymous said...

Note sharon's comments below.

Can someone post the link to the articles she mentions? (I keep a file of them for later reference.)

Thanks.

sharon said...

Well, the SE has two interesting stories today.

One is that the Board of Regents have finally issued a statement that WSU will absolutely hang onto their land! WSU says they've never received a formal proposal from Peterson!
What? Imagine that.

Now the water/sewer/infrastruscture problems in Ogden have resurfaced.

Anonymous said...

Curious....both are in the SE today.

Is Cindy Mansell a patsy hired by Godfrey so she'll keep her mouth shut about 'hanky panky' in the city Recorder's Office?

Does she look the other way when the godfreyites do things that ain't kosher?

Will she be fired for admitting that the 'files aren't here?'

Stay tuned folks.

Anonymous said...

I have one question regarding the use of a consultant to determine optimal water and sewer rates.

If Matt Godfrey is so damn smart that he knows how to set water and sewer rates appropriately, then why are we running a deficit in that category each year?

Okay, two questions. How does the deficit in the City Services portion of the budget compare to the golf course "deficit"?

(I put the word "deficit" in quotes because in my opinion it's actually a subsidy for the city's preservation of open space.)

I would ask a third question, but I already know the answer. How come Mayor Godfrey is all het up about $80K for a sorely-needed study, when he has spent how much on worthless gondola studies? Answer: he won't tell City Council or taxpayers how much he's spent on the gondola boondoggle.

Anyone care to address these issues?

Anonymous said...

IN Re the SE Article today about Sewer maintenance, etc.

I note that once again, the council seems to be having trouble getting information from the Administration, the Councillors are insisting that they have repeatedly asked for the relevent information from the city administration and they have not gotten it.

It seems the Godfrey administration problem with communicating information to the Council continues unabated. We saw it in the Earnest Co. matter. We saw it when Councilmember Wicks asked about city expenditures promoting a proposal that as yet Mr. Peterson has not made; and most notably, we saw it in the Bootjack affair.

What is the Administration so continually reluctant to supply the Council with information it says it needs to make decisions, information the Administration has, and information that the Council has specificually asked for? And why is the problem with this sort of thing apparently continuing?

Anonymous said...

You ask why the administration is 'reluctant' to supply info to the Council?

Is that a serious question?

Give it up, Curm. the little puke's a crook...and unless he has FBI/State Auditor 'guns' at his head...ain't nobody getting any true information!

Anonymous said...

Did you see this? Clinton would appoint her husband 'an ambassador to the world' when she's president!

Geez, wonder if the guy's heart can take all that action? Is there enough Viagra or Cialis in the world for him to do his job?

The donkey isn't that party's mascot for nothing, you know.

Anonymous said...

Ah, True Republican... another of those "family values" Republicans who can't stand it that the Clinton's marriage... the first and only marriage for both of them... is still intact.

I'm worried that your obsession with Mr. Clinton's sex lift is reaching unhealthy levels. There is a world of other things out there worth spending time on. Music. Art. Literature. Nature. Sports. Or if you must obsess about a politician's sex life, if that's all that fills the empty hours for you, why don't you vary things a little and worry for a while about Rudy Guliani's... what is it now, four marriages --- including the one in which he brought his mistress into his and his wife's home while he was Mayor of NY? Or Mr. Gingrich's varied affairs-filled marriages to aides and such like.

But no. Good "family values" Republican that you are, you prefer to obsess about the Clinton's marriage, still in tact after all these years. Sad. Truly sad. As my kids would say, "time to get a life."

Anonymous said...

The Godfrey - Reid marriage is still intact also. So what?

Tricky Dick Nixon, the most odious politician in recent history stayed married to Pat, that sure as shit didn't make him a decent president.

I would think that staying married to a barracuda like Hillary would be more of a negative than a positive. Same goes for any one that would stay with a slime ball democrat like Wet Willie.

So I sure hope to hear tons of praise from Curm for Nixon from now on.

Anonymous said...

More Bad news for the Little Lord and his wild eyed schemers:

ST. GEORGE, Utah (AP) -- State higher education officials plan to buy up as much land as they can in the next few years so the state's public colleges and universities will have room to grow.

The state Board of Regents have voted to consider opportunities for land acquisition more aggressively going into the next decade.

Regent Nolan Karras calls the plan to explore options of acquiring land for every campus is "a no-brainer" given the current state of the economy and increasing property values.

At Dixie State College, the school's 115-acre footprint has reached its capacity. School officials there say for the college to meet its strategic planning goals for increased enrollment, future building and expansion options are needed.

Anonymous said...

It really pays off to snoop around about Ogden City Corporation's ethical practices and compliance with the fine print.

Betcha didn't know that the HUD grants which are called CDBG (Community Development Block Grants) usually have a requirement that the City has to hire at least 1 new low-income employee or it sometimes requires 2 new low-income persons to be hired to qualify for the grant.

Ogden signed off that this had been done on the Riverside Technology High School dba Da Vinci Academy of Science loans from these grant funds.

Because Da Vinci is in the inner City the City's position assumed that anybody that was hired was low-income.

Only no new low income persons were ever hired.

So much for ethics and compliance.

I hear this was done out of the Business Information Center with none other than Mr. Scott Brown involved.

Brave Souls! Step up and tell the rest of the story and maybe we can finally get rid of these jerks.

Anonymous said...

Marv:

As I've said here on other occasions, when we elect a president, we elect a CEO for the nation... we do not elect someone to be a good spouse, father etc. The state of a president's marriage is {a) not really any of the public's business and (b) irrelevent to whether or not he [or she] can or will be a good executive officer. Very good husbands can be very bad presidents, and very bad husbands can be very good ones.

I was merely concerned that True Republican's obsession with Clinton's sex life was reaching unhealthy levels, and suggested that if he couldn't find other more worthy things to fill the empty hours other than specualtions about politicians's sex lives, he might at least vary the objects of his obsession, range a little further afield than the Clintons.

No where, above or before, did I suggest that being a good spouse necessarily makes someone a good president, or that being a bad one necessarily makes someone a bad president.

We spend far far too much time in this nation trying to devine the ability of presidential candidates to govern the nation wisely by looking at their family lives, and other irrelevent parts of their biographies. Just as we weigh far too heavily in the presidential scales "niceness." I don't particulary want a "nice" president. I want an intelligent and an effective one who makes good decisions. I really don't care if he [or she] is a nice person or not.

That clear it up for you?

Anonymous said...

A few ruminations:

Mr. Curm thinks that this True Republican obsesses over the sexual antics of his marriage role model, one billary clinton....rather doubt that hillary can qualify as a sex objec. BRRRRR Give it up, Curm. I don't even "obsess" over my own sex life! I imagine the sexual positions of a rabid mosquito would be as interesting.

Don't forget that on the Republican side...Romney has had one wife and one intact marriage.

What do you think of hillary wanting to appoint billary as world ambassador?

There are more than a few persons poking around in the city's records,....and the 'stuff' is going to hit the proverbial fan any day now!

Good decision making (finally) by the Board of Regents for hanging on to the WSU land! Now the golf course has to be protected from those two thieves...Petey and Matt.

When are we going to see a full fledged mayoral campaign taking this town by storm and making the little dictator quiver in his size 30 short suit?

Anonymous said...

True Republican:

Hey, you'e the one who brought up Clinton's sex life out of the blue on WCF. Not me. Now you're commenting on Ms. Clinton's sexual appeal [or lack thereof] as you see it. If that's not obsessing about the Clinton's sex life, it's a pretty good imitation of it.

Now, on more substantive matters. You wrote: What do you think of Hillary wanting to appoint billary as world ambassador? Works for me, especially since Mr. Clinton is one of the few nationalally promient American politicians who still retains a gret deal of respect around the world, and about whom the public in many foreign lands think well. As opposed to, for example,.... oh, never mind. If Mr. Clinton's popularity in foreign lands can be put to good use for the benefit of the US by making him a roving ambassador, I'm all for it. I suspect he will be a lot more effective in the post than say Karen Hughes has been. So I have no problem if President Clinton appoints her husband as a roving Ambassador of good will for the US. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like it. [And I note that President George W. Bush has already called on Mr. Clinton to act in that capacity for the US on several occasions, including following the Tsunami in Indonesia. Fail to see why President Clinton appointing her husband to serve the same role would be a problem.]

Anonymous said...

maybe we know......

Sorry, you got that one wrong.

The Godfrey gang has hired several low income no experience people in important positions. People that never had meaningful employment until the mayor gave them great opportunities.

People like Curt Geiger's wife at $60,000 plus a year for instance.

And his best buddy Stu Reid who couldn't hold a real job in private industry now knocking down $60,000 plus a year being the big guy at BDO which already is actually run by Boyer for half the action.

Then there is that lard ass dude Johnson who never had a significant real job in his life before becoming another $60,000 plus a year Ogden employee.

There are more examples, but I don't think it fair to pile on.

The reality is that there are a number of incompetents and otherwise unemployables at Ogden's public trough that could never make it any where else. Seems to me that this should more than satisfy those block grant requirments.

Anonymous said...

SE got skunked on the Hill AFB/ Boyer housing management scandal right enough, but it's got a front page story this morning on an important matter for N. Utah and Ogden here.

It's by Charles Trentelman on current water "reserves" [i.e. not yet tapped but technologically deliverable over time] in Northern Utah. The point is: we're about out and will probably face in the forseeable future the choice between flushing our toilets or watering our lawns.

Several good things about the story. It's supported by evidence cited within [always a nice feature in a news story I think], it's not by a Rosy Scenario reporter, but on the other hand it's not an over the top "oh my God the sky is falling" panic piece either. Trentelman, for example, reports that N. Utah will be able to deliver, even given population growth, culinary water over time. But surface water [lawns and agricultural irrigation water] is another matter. And Trentelman discusses the shortage in terms of long-term cyclical drought cycles [going back over 2000 years] in Utah. We are, it seems, just emerging from an extraordinarily wet couple of centuries in Utah's water history, and re-entering the more normal dryer long-term cycle.

Story resonated with me because I read on line a story in The Independent [London] --- story link here --- that Australia is about to inform farmers who grow 40% of the nation's food that the likelihood is they will receive no irrigation water this year. Huge crop failures and livestock die-off is expected.

We discuss development proposals here a lot, and the article discusses the role water districts now play, might play, [should play?] in development in the future. Should water districts act as growth limiters because they won't be able to supply water to accommodate anticpated growth, etc?

It's a chewy piece. The SE has done, is doing, good work on keeping water matters in the public eye in N. Utah, as is Mr. Trentelman [who the SE seems, wisely, to have put on the water beat].

Thought I'd post on it in hopes of diverting further Republican speculations about the Clinton's sex life. I know, I know, but I'm a liberal. Hope springs eternal for me....

Anonymous said...

Good point, daryl.

Problem is that the grants were specifically for Riverside Technology High School dba Da Vinci Academy of Science and nobody got hired there.

And somebody in Ogden City government signed off that it had been done.

Makes me want to see the fine print on all the other Block Grants Ogden has received because the ones for the inner city would all have that same requirement to hire low income people.

Anonymous said...

to stick to the rules -

Don't you realize that a great percentage of people in Ogden are low income.

The only ones making a decent wage in Ogden work for Godfrey in the RDA and the Justice Court and his array of attorneys.

The City Council certainly doesn't get paid for time spent. Just look at the police and the water employees.

Pay scale in Ogden is all a matter of perspective - the Mayor's.

Anonymous said...

curmudgeon ,

Thanks for the link to Trentleman's article.

I have lived in Arizona and New Mexico where there is no water for lawns.

It looks like we should start right now limiting construction of huge new homes and golf courses and other large consumers of water.

Maybe a side effect of that would be to put the RDA out of business.

Another argument for limitation of construction is the growing congestion on the highways and the environmental pollution problem.

Anonymous said...

Curmudgeon:

Thanks for the link. As I read the article this morning, I thought about Mayor Godfrey's weird comment about conservation being a thorn in his side because "people using less water means less money for us" or words to that effect.

All the more reason Council should hire an independent consultant who doesn't need a weatherman to tell him which way the wind is blowing.

Anonymous said...

Once again the editors of the SE have relegated a, not so rosey gondola related letter, to the website only, Flowers and Darts. Written by a fellow from Layton,(hardly a local naysyer) he calls the gondola a red herring. This letter was obviously penned before this weeks Board of Regents meeting, and his conclusion is very similar to what many of us have been advocating for quite some time, this a land grab,plain and simple. Given what has been reported about that regents meeting, how Utah schools should be acquiring more land near or adjacent to campus, maybe Ogden City should sell them those acres south of the existing golf course. Expansion of our 4 year university is much more critical than a few over glorified monuments to the garage(mcmansions), if you're looking for long term health of the city. Plus Ogden could use the money on it's crumbling infastructure. It's a win win.

Anonymous said...

Jest Thinkin'

As I recall, some cities in AZ some years ago... Tucson maybe?... put in bans on non-native plants for landscaping. No more retirees moving in from Minnesta putting in Kentucky Bluegrass lawns like they had back home, etc. And new subdivisions, as I recall, had to xeriscape the grounds of houses --- desert plants, rock and gravel, etc. --- before getting planning commission approval.

We're certainly wetter than there, but I wonder if at some point it wouldn't pay for the water authority [County] to put in some financial incentives to xeriscape residential properties like the power companies now has rebates in for people who buy more efficient appliances, or add insulation to their homes, etc. And probably, as a way to stretch what we have further, xeriscaping public properties would make sense too... e.g. wide green lawns around some public buildings [like some schools --- and no, I'm not talking playing fields], etc.

Ogden, Utah, municipalities across the country [with very very rare exceptions] are adicted to growth, and usually to unregulated growth. That is not going to stop, I suspect. But what can be done, has been done in other places, like some in AZ and NM, is to require as a condition for approving new development, that water-saving measures be incorporated into the development plans.

Story ran in I think the NYT a few weeks ago about homeowners in Santa Fe [whose water problems make N. Utah's seem trivial] installing rain-catcher systems on their rooftops, feeding into storage tanks [some on the roofs, some at ground level] which water they use, when it's there, for ground watering. Some said given the cost of water in Santa Fe these days, they expect to at least break even, or come close, over a few years once the systems are in.

The article said, though, that in Colorado, it's illegal to catch rainwater on or coming off a roof. $500 fine if you are caught. Catching it prevents it from entering the "run off" and the stream system, the rights to which water somebody else downstream already owns.

If I were a young whippersnapper again [those who wish to contest the claim that I ever was one will kindly shut up], and considering going to law school, I would I think make water law my particular interest. The little I know about it is fascinating, especially western water law, and I suspect in a couple of decades, water lawyers are going to be about as filthy rich as oil lawyers are now.

Anonymous said...

People have killed over water rights ever since the West was settled.

It was common practice for people to have "rain barrels" outside their homes to catch roof and eave run-off.

It will be interesting to see if Colorado's law about catching rain water holds up in court.

That seems to be pretty farfetched.

Maybe we are going to have to dig our own wells but that probably is prohibited now, too.

Time to move back to the country.

Anonymous said...

This water news has its upside.

Now Mayor Godfrey can't justify all the water he is going to use on his flower garden on Washington Blvd.

That brings up a good question.
Does Ogden City pay for all the water it uses?

Anonymous said...

Time:

It's been law in Colorado for a while, I think. Not a new law so far as I know. I don't know how rigorously it is enforced, or if it is, but it's been on the books for some time I think. And there is some logic to it. If your state's water law is based on "first use" --- i.e. those who used water first have an enforceable right to their share against upstream users whose rights are secondary --- and someone diverts rainfall from the stream and river system by a rooftop catch system, they have diverted water to which you have a historic and legally enforceable right. Given that, there is, as I said, logic to the law banning rooftop catch systems.

Thought I admit, someone [like myself] from the non-arid east, or someone whose state's water law has a different basis, is likely to say, as I did when I read the Times story, "I can't use water coming off my own roof in a rain storm? That's nuts!"

Anonymous said...

Cynic:

I don't know if Ogden pays for the water it uses. I imagine it does, but I don't know. Does anyone know for sure? For both Pineview water and culinary water? [By the way, "culinary water" is a very odd term for transplanted easterners. When I first heard it, I actually asked someone: "Ogden has a separate metered water system for cooking water?"]

As for the plantings on the Washington Ave median [which I think is what your question referred to]: I was at a Council work session where Council was briefed on the median's construction and characteristics. One of the members... I think it was Councilwoman Wicks... asked if the plantings were going to be water-saving native species, and as I recall the answer was "no" and that a sprinkler system was being included in the construction of the medians.

Given Mr. Trentelman's article today, now might be a good time for the city to begin setting an example and requiring xeriscaping on new public projects like this.

Which raises another question: does Ogden have an official city water policy to deal with/encourage/model water conservation? [I don't know. If anyone does know for sure, pls post the answer.] If the answer is "no," then the follow up questions are "Why not?" and "Shouldn't it?"

Anonymous said...

Given this Trentelman article it is obvious that the only smart thing we can all do is get behind me/your mayor as soon as possible and fully support selling off the Mount Ogden Park, and hocking every other thing the city owns, inorder to built a gondola to the proposed ski resort in Maylan's basin that will use massive amounts of water to make snow because there apparently won't be much snow on the natch in the future.

I mean it just seems unreal that you people on this blog can't see the only true course that makes any sense given these future projections of global warming and water shortages. Such an elegant solution to a looming problem, yet you naysayers just keep harping away at such a great man as me who is the only one who apparently understands planning for the future. It truly is as simple as a squirrel storing nuts for the winter.

Just what do you think it would be like in the future if you were able to divert this genius visionary from my calling to save us all from our own ignorance? Can you put down your prejudice long enough to imagine how dismal life in Ogden would be if we had to endure a hundred year drought and not have a hundred million dollar gondola to mitigate the devestation and thirst?

Common, wake up, smell the sage brush and just realize that we will be the only desert city in the whole world that will have a gondola from our parched down town to our burned out mountains.

We will even beat Las Vegas who has a hundred and fifty year head start on us and they don't have one, nor are they even forward looking enough to be planning for one. I mean, don't you want to beat Las Vegas for hell's sake? Do you really want to cheat our WSU graduates of their future glory?

If you don't wake up soon, I am just going to leave here and cast my pearls before more appreciative swine somewhere else. Perhaps I will take my show to Las Vegas where they might appreciate my genius for outstanding solutions to future problems.

And Mr. Curmudgeon, I assume in your post a few back that when you mentioned rich Oil Lawyers what you were really refering to was some of my best friends the Oily lawyers. It is little clues like this that prove that you are just out to get me, and do not care about real solutions for real problems.

Even a stupid fifth grader knows that to prepare for a drought a city should bet everything it has on a gondola.

Get a clue you rummy dummy peasants. Get on the "G" train before it leaves the station.

Anonymous said...

the water issue is this, Ogden city owns and operates it's own water system. from the wells at pineveiw to the filter plant, down to the resiviors at the top of 23th street, it takes about 9 cents per thousand gal. to produce and they sell it us taxpayer at the rate of 93 cents per thousand gal. what a deal. then they build a new complex on 30th and wall for 8 million dollars and then say we need to raise water rates because we don't have enough money. so where is the accountiblity in all this money? and why is water such an issue here in this city?

Anonymous said...

History:

Well, I don't know about the accounting... I haven't seen the books. But the reason water is an issue is because of projected growth in the top of Utah and the question of whether new water can be brought on line to service the increased growth. According to Mr. Trentelman's article, TOU is in reasonably good shape for culinary water, even with growth factored in, for some time. But what we generally call Pineview water --- used for ag. irrigation and surface watering --- is another matter.

And even if there are developable sources we haven't tapped in Ogden, yet, like the old Union Pacific springs in Taylor Canyon, it will take time, and investment, to bring them on line and either create or upgrade delivery systems.

Some smaller towns in the area have already had to limit growth [like new subdivisions] because they don't have the water on line to handle them. Other towns are beginning to require developers to own water rights [or to purchase water rights for their properties] before giving permission to build.

SE ran an article some time ago, I think another Trentelman piece, about the water district diverting some Weber River Water into quarry gravel beds just at the mouth of the canyon, because there the water-storage strata [the aquifer] from which Ogden and Weber County draw much of their subsurface water reaches the surface. The river flow, so diverted, recharges the aquifer. Brigham City does something similar, I understand, running winter water down boreholes to the aquifer there to recharge the it during low use times, to put back what they take out in the summer.

We're pretty fortunate in that regard, since in most places, the aquifers are recharged only by rain and snow percolating down. When you take out more than nature puts back in, the water table drops. Wells on the Ogalala Aquifer [underlying the great plains, or most of them] have to be drilled deeper and deeper now as irrigation draws out millions of gallons more a year than nature puts back. Predictions from some water gurus are that the Ogalala aquifer will be essentially pumped out and what remains be too deep to pump profitably within a quarter century. So parts of Weber Co. being in a position to recharge its aquifer with river flow is very fortunate.

I've never seen in the paper a discussion of what it costs Ogden to deliver its culinary water to customers and how that relates to water rates. I do know that the Council wants to hire an expert consultant to look at that prior to recommending a hike in Ogden City's water rates, and the Mayor Godfrey is opposed to the city hiring an expert consultant to look into the matter. The Mayor, according to a recent SE story said spending 40 to 80K getting expert advice, as the Council wants to do, would be "flushing the money down the drain."

History, can you tell me where you got the figures on what it costs to produce and deliver 1000 gallons of culinary water in Ogden? Can you cite a source? Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Magnificent Matt,

I'll drink to that!

Anonymous said...

Curm,
the source for my figures is from the water utility, at the filter plant. Ogden also buys water from weber basin water out of the weber river and then Ogden also sells water to bona vista water company in north Ogden, belive me there is plenty of water to go around. I think they are just looking for ways to gouge the public in thinking that water is now worth its weight in Gold. I have friends that work in the Ogden water Dept and this is a ploy to get the water rates up for more of the mayors spending of stupid ideas. If the mayor thinks that 80,000 is to much then once again as mention on the blog why 45,000 to a lobbist that brought nothing to the city from the state.

Anonymous said...

I hear that an announcement for the Wal-Mart is in a few months for the same Wall Ave. location.

Anonymous said...

Fly:

Have they assembled the necessary land? Can they w/o using eminent domain on holdouts?

Anonymous said...

fly on the wall-

It would be the usual stupidity if Ogden maneuvered a Wal-mart on Wall Avenue.

The trend across the country is to tell Wal-mart to go away. New York and Chicago are two of the biggest cities that will not let them in.

Anonymous said...

Par:

Wal-Mart close in has pluses and minuses. On the plus side, demonstrably, a lot of people like to shop there, and save substantial bucks doing so, or so they are convinced. Refusing to allow into the city a business that, manifestly, a very large number of people like to do business with, is not a trivial matter.

On the down side, the record is clear from coast to coast: the arrival of a Wal-Mark destroys many many locally owned small businesses. The Godfrey administration regularly touts its friendliness for small businesses and the help it offers such to do business in Ogden. [For a dissenting view, see Mr. Moyal and his partner.] It would not be unreasonable for the city administration [and Council] to consider the potential [and probable] impact of a downtown Wal-mart on existing and prospective small businesses in Ogden City.

Also to be considered: the City administration is [rightly] trying to market downtown Ogden as a historic area --- History 25th Street, etc. How will a downtown Wal-Mart fit in with that and what impact will it have on the renaisance of 25th Street?

As I said, there are upsides and downsides to Wal-Mart. Many more than I've mentioned here. [E.g. Wal-Mart's abysmal labor record, low pay, minimal or no benefits for many employees, sex discrimination, etc. etc. ] There is some evidence that the arrival of a Wal-Mart drives down wages in other local business. And so on.

On balance, this does not seem to be a development that will, on the whole, serve Ogden well.

Anonymous said...

WalMart has had some really good looking buildings in downtown areas that add to the style and ambience. that is so in San Diego..very avant garde...escalators and all.

People do save money there. Walmart is tackling health coverage for their employees who DO NOT HAVE GUNS AT THEIR HEADS TO WORK THERE! Other businesses need to be more creative to compete.

That said, I hope Godfrey is on a rail out of town before any serious negotiating goes on with WalMart. His henchmen did a lot of damage last time around.

Anonymous said...

I understand "Fly on the Wall" is none other than that Godfrey acquisition...Bill Glasmann. Notice that HE is telling us WalMart could be making another stab at a store on Wall Ave????????

Sometimes it's really difficult to be in the know and not let everyone else know!

Anonymous said...

It would be truly hilarious if "fly on the wall" were really Glassman and he is now touting the Wall Mart on Wall.

He took great pride during the last election in claiming (falsly) that he was the leader of the anti WalMart protests. He puffed out his pigeon chest on many occasions and took full credit for stoping the big blue monster from stealing the poor peasant's homes!

He did participate in a small way, I think he was at one of the protests, but he led nothing. This has been his trademark all of his life, taking credit for other's accomplishments.

He is also another one of those otherwise unemployable and incompetent people that the Mayor has hired at big salaries in the city government.

He won the election by promising the voters that he would get in there and work on their behalf, that he would make the Mayor accountable to the citizens and that he would make sense of the RDA and report to the people the truth of what was going on in city government.

He did none of that, but instead, in true Judas fashion, sold out the people the very first chance he got for a few pieces of silver. He even did it faster than former councilman Johnson did and for a lot less money.

Anonymous said...

Is it just me, or does anyone else chuckle at the fact that Godfrey would want a Walmart with in a block of the commuter hub, put your best face on, gateway to mediocrity. Are people really going to pay the fare, to shop at Walmart? I wonder if the option for Bootjack had anything to do with flipping the property to Walmart, or back to the city?

Anonymous said...

What IS the status of the lease/option Peterson had?

Bootjack...is that a fitting name?

Maybe dimwitted Chris enjoys irony?

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't call Peterson "Dimwitted".
If he were dimwitted he wouldn't be so dangerous. He is scheming on a hundred million dollar piece of public property and has at least some small chance of getting it. Not exactly dimwitted.

No, he is just your typical Greedy Old Profiteer, AKA GOP!

Anonymous said...

More like dungwitted exploitative mountebank obtruder, AKA DEMO!

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