Last night's council/RDA action, as reported by the Standard-Examiner
The Standard Examiner reports this morning that Boss Godfrey scored a clean sweep at last night's RDA session, wherein the RDA board unanimously approved all three agenda items announced in yesterday's Scott Schwebke article:
1) Waiver of an RDA right of first refusal for a one-acre Junction project parcel at 22nd and Grant, clearing the way for acquisition and development of the property by BDO manager Stuart Reid;
2) Commitment of another $1.1 million in tax increment to Mel Kemp's MTK Holdings, to be applied toward improvements the the 91,000 square foot building housing Adam Aircraft;
3) Authorization for issuance of up to $3.5 million in revenue bonds, to allow U.S. Foodservice to purchase about 37 acres from Councilman Safsten's employer, Autoliv Inc.
Maybe it's just us, but we wonder whether it isn't just a bit inelegant for Emerald City's BDO manager, Mr. Reid, to be involving himself personally in property development at The Junction. Whether this proposed property acquisition represents at least a potential conflict with his contractual obligations at BDO we can only speculate. However, this situation has a bad smell to it, we think.
As for the RDA Board's approval of the commitment of additional credit to Mr. Kemp, we note that this is at least the second time Emerald City has come to his rescue. Emerald City generously awarded Mel Kemp's consortium over $2 million tax increment just two and a half years ago to bail him out financially. We wonder why Mr. Kemp can't obtain his own private financing.
Regarding the $3.5 million bonding for the Autoliv property sale, we are gratified to learn that Mr. Safsten recused himself from the Autoliv/Foodservice transaction funding vote. A more direct potential conflict of interest scenario we cannot imagine, than the employee of the seller in a land transaction voting as a public official on the bonding intended to provide the actual funding . Our compliments to Mr. Safsten, for conducting himself in a manner demonstrating the highest possible ethical standards, and placing himself beyond reproach.
In another Std-Ex story, we learn that the Emerald City Council has cobbled together a $43.2 million "wish list," identifying capital improvement projects to be prioritized over the next five years. Among the projects approved in concept only during last night's council session (no actual funds were committed,) were various street, sidewalk and building repairs, together with improvements at the FrontRunner station. Noticeably absent from from the council list are improvements to the city's woefully dilapidated water and sewer systems, which bodes well for sellers of bottled water in the city's East Bench area, we suppose.
Have at it, gentle readers.
The floor is open.
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56 comments:
I remember when I saw the release about Adam Aircraft, I thought, finally, Godfrey did something good. It looked like Adam was a class act. BTW it’s “Adam Aircraft” not “Adams Aircraft” as Godfrey says it. When I heard him call it “Adams Aircraft” over and over I thought, uh oh, he’s throwing tax money at them and doesn’t even know the name of the company.
Anyway I looked into it and it appears that Adam, for many reasons, is a company that I personally do not feel is viable over the long run. There are other companies doing what they do, for a lot less money. Adam himself as I recall, is a guy who made money in software and decided he’d start making airplanes. Yeah, sure. Were I to invest in Adam, I would only do so by shorting the stock. That would be hard, of course, because if it were traded, Adam would be a penny stock.
Which brings up the issues of tax increment and lease revenue financing – often such deals are cut with marginal businesses to make bureaucrats in the city business office look like they’re doing some good, or to give the mayor something to crow about, when 99% of the businesses do not rely on such deals. Most of Ogden’s problems are caused by the city, and getting rid of the business office altogether would go a long way to improving things. If somebody wants to buy property in Ogden and invest here, fine. If they don’t, fine. The city should pick up garbage and do other things it does marginally well and leave business to people who know how to do it and who have their own money to spend, not city bureaucrats, their cronies and other half-baked Donald Trump wannabes.
Is'nt the City currently in litigation over the past RDA funding of the Kemp center? If so why are they following the same procedures as before? Slow learners.
Danny,
Adam Aircraft has a billion dollars of orders. They offer private jets at half the cost of Gulfstream, Honda, Cessna. Not sure where you get such a low rating but this company is growing by leaps and bounds. It is a nice fit for a small regional airport. My understanding is that the instrument clusters will be assembled here. See their website for more info or search for news on them. I can't find anything negative.
Rudi:
A couple of comments.
First, thanks for this: Noticeably absent from from the council list are improvements to the city's woefully dilapidated water and sewer systems, which bodes well for sellers of bottled water in the city's East Bench area, we suppose.
As I keep reminding students, sometimes the most important thing about a document, speech, or what have you, is what is not there. Easy to forget that when reading a news story. Thanks for the reminder. [And what is being done in preparation for the expensive repair work on Ogden's sewer system that is, I think, being federally mandated?]
On the 22nd and Grant property: I don't see a problem. The city didn't own the land, didn't want to buy it, so this is just a sale from one private owner to another. If the city had exercised it's first refusal right and bought the property, I suspect it would be getting thumped here for engaging in property development with city money when private investment should have done the job. I really don't see a problem with this one.
The US Food Service bonding also seems reasonable to me. It's a well established and successful company moving to Ogden. The probability of its generating tax revenues to cover the bonds seems very strong. If the city is going to engage in this kind of bonding at all, this seems like a wise investment to make.
The Kemp bonding is another matter. It seems much more specualtive. And this seems to be Kemp's second bite at the city subsidy apple. This is worrisome. The rationale for new subsidies becomes "we can't let the money we already put into this be lost." And if/when they come back for more funding next year or the year after, the same rationale to pour more public finding in becomes even greater. I agree, this one does look dicey and perhaps was not a wise use of public funds.
I want to know how the Council voted last night - anyone know?
curmudgeon-
I disagree completely about the food service company.
They are presently in Clearfield.
Why should we subsidize them with tax increment to take them away from another town next door to us?
That is not neighborly!!!!!
Tec,
Let me say that I hope you are right about Adam Aircraft, I haven’t researched it lately, but in any case my comments about the Ogden business development office are still valid.
Having said that, your comments about Adam planes being cheaper and having all these orders etc, etc was the first conclusion to which I came in my initial superficial analysis. A more thorough one however, revealed that there are other companies, Japanese I recall, that sell planes, and are bringing more to market, that were identical in purpose and performance to Adam’s for less than half the price. As I recall, the Jap planes used standard aluminum technology whereas Adam used fiber composite. The latter is of course, more trendy, but hardly worth the added price, although you do get a nice decal on the side saying fiber composite with an Adam plane. And personally, for aircraft I’d rather be with the tried and true technology than the newest thing, let alone the lower price for the Jap planes.
Of course, this is all from memory. Nonetheless, my hopes for Adam were all dashed upon researching it, and the idea of Ogden taxpayers should be investors in Adam is disturbing. After all, those Adam employees will be demanding the same services we all want, but they won’t be paying for them like other companies do. Paying a few companies – such as Adam – to move here while most haul their own water is a stupid idea to me. Of course, the thing with Kemp seems a complete rathole of Godfrey-esque corruption. What ever happened to that lawsuit regarding it, from OK3AIR?
And that's my Stand:
Because other towns are soliciting businesses in Ogden to leave here and move there. Utah subsidizes out of state businesses to move here from other states, other states subsidize Utah businesses to move out of Utah to their states, and towns and cities within Utah do the same to attract business out of other Utah towns into their towns.
Does it make economic sense? On the macro level, no, it does not. Studies have shown that states do not make money [via increased tax revenues] by offering subsidies to attract business and jobs. Individual states lose as much as they gain, and the competition cuts tax revenues overall [granting five or ten year tax exemptions to attract business is common among the states.]
So, overall, it makes no economic sense. The problem is: which state [or city within a state] will stop the practice first? If everyone else doesn't stop offering tax incentives and subsidies, and your state is the only one to stop, you will lose a lot of business and jobs. But the states are pretty much addicted to trying to win jobs away from other states by tax waivers and other subsidies. And so long as everyone else is in the game, the reasoning goes, it would be foolish for Utah [or within Utah, Ogden] to be the only one to opt out.
And politics comes in as well. Every governor wants to point, at reelection time, to the businesses he [or she] has brought to their state. Tax incentives and subsidies let them do that. Same for mayors. Look at how Mayor Godfrey is touting the companies he has brought to Ogden, the jobs he has brought here. Council members want to be able to do the same. It will be a major element in election campaigns. [You will not hear about companies that have moved out, attracted to other locales by subsidies and tax breaks, but you will hear a lot about those who have moved in.]
I wish I had a solution for this costly subsidy/tax waiver competition among the states and among towns within a state. But I don't.
To “That’s My Stand”
Please carefully note Curm’s reasoning, above.
1. Use of tax incentives to lure business is not economically beneficial, and is usually economically detrimental.
2. We should do it anyway.
Now, after pondering this logic, ask yourself this question. “Whaaaaaa?” You might also want to keep people like Curm away from your daughter when she claims that all the girls in school do it, and all may have VD, but if she doesn’t she’ll never have a boyfriend. You might want to tell her instead, that the other girls can go ahead and do what they will, because there are plenty around who don’t.
And there are plenty of cities that don’t do tax incentives well. Godfrey will tell you that none of the businesses that he’s paid off with our money would have moved here if he hadn’t had his bureaucratic flaks pay them off. And yet, Michael Moyal wants to take his OWN money and improve his OWN property and the city won’t let him!
People like Godfrey and his cronies are bad people. And that’s because of the bad things they do.
It turns out Curm is right about #1. And that’s a reason NOT to do it! Duh!
Dear “Stand,” trust your instincts. They are correct.
The saying that everybody is doing it makes it "O.K." is why all the young girls have lost their virginity before they realize how valuable and critical it really is to keep it.
You never get it again.
Neither will Ogden ever recover.
The main problem with Stuart Reid's acquisition of the one-acre parcel, Curm, is that it puts him in the position of "wearing two different hats."
On the one hand, he's the BDO manager, with obligations owed the citizens of Emerald City to recruit and sign tenants for the BDO property.
On the other hand, he'll now apparently be building out the parcel at the Junction, wearing the hat of a developer/tenant recruiter, with his own personal financial interests to protect.
It isn't much of a stretch to envision a situation, at least hypothetically, where he might find himself torn between filling his own leasable space, and fulfilling his contractual BDO obligations, dealing with prospective tenants who would be suitable for either location.
Can Mr. Reid ethically wear both hats?
Only time will tell.
We think Mr. Reid's position is highly untenable, and that he should resign his BDO management position, now that he's become a downtown developer.
curmudgeon--
Haven't you ever considered being the first to start a trend for good government by stopping the idiotic practice of tax increment subsidies?
Rudi:
The conflict you outline makes sense to me if the kind of clients/tenants going into the one acre development downtown are the same kind of clients/tenants suitable for BDO leases. From what the papers say, and that's all I have to go on, they are not. The small development downtown will apparently house retail/restaurant business on ground level, and residential condos above [something like the 25th street similar project?]. BDO is not being developed as a venue for small retail shops, restaurants and over-business condos.
That said, your headline about the Mayor's "cronies" is fully appropriate. As I recall, Mr. Reid got some kind of special handshake didn't tell the Council about it until after it happened very lucrative payout arrangement from Mayor Godfrey when he quit working for the city in one capacity [a doubtful "separation" by the city was arranged I believe to justify a large payout for what was in fact Mr. Reid's voluntary resignation] at which point he was immediately hired by the city in another capacity. I seem to recall this was an arrangement of such doubtful probity that the old city council began to look into its legality, and finally altered employment regulations so no more off-the-record handshake deals between the mayor and city appointees could happen again. That establishes the "crony" relationship, seems to me. And so naturally, any future dealings between the city and Mr. Reid [in whatever capacity] will raise suspicions.
Mr. Reid and Hizzonah may claim, very possibly correctly, that nothing untoward is going on in this instance, but neither can fairly complain that suspicions about the already clearly established "crony" relationship have arisen. The suspicions spring from actions that were entirely of their own doing.
On the front page of today's Signpost, the WSU student newspaper - Ogden Mayor: Gondola is the Answer
It looks like those opposing the gondola weren't available to debate. That's too bad because a fair number of WSU students are probably eligible to vote in the next mayoral election. It would have been great to see a response to Godfrey's uncontested malarky and lies.
I Like Being First Myself:
Have at it. I've said it makes no sense overall. Economists, some state officials in various places, major writers in the public prints on economics have all said so. To absolutely no effect. For the reasons I gave above.
Nowhere did I say "everybody's doing it so it's ok." What I said was, so long as everyone is doing it, states and cities will be very reluctant to be the first to stop because in the short run at least [and all election cycles are short run] it will probably cost them heavily. It will amount, or will seem, like unilateral disarmament [economically speaking]. And for the first cities or states to do it, it may turn out that way.
These decisions are not taken in a vacuum. They are taken by elected public officials [city or state] in both an economic and a political context. If you want to run for office as Governor or Mayor on a platform of ending all subsidies to bring business to Utah or to Ogden [depending], arguing that well, sure, for the next decade or so, it may result in the loss of a lot of jobs here, but in the long run, if we can get every state/city to do the same, it will be beneficial, have at it. My advice, though would be that you not quit your day job during the campaign.
Good find, OgdenLover.
Thanks!
Ogden Lover:
Several faculty I know were approached to take part. But it was held on a weekday morning. Prime teaching time. Several approached had classes then, and could not cancel class to take part in a debate.
There was something else as well: opponents have appeared over the last two years on many platforms with the Mayor or his surrogates debating "the gondola." Some are no longer willing to do that until there is a proposal on the table. There isn't. What are we supposed to debate? Whose proposal to do what? Which gondola would be debated? The city owned and built flatland one to WSU from downtown? The up mountain one from WSU to Malan's Basin? Both?
What would the gondola cost? Nobody knows. We don't have a proposal yet, the Mayor has not offered any cost analysis, we don't know yet how he proposes to build it, exactly where, with how many stops [if any], using what technology? So there is no prayer of even debating cost estimates. So what, exactly, is there to debate?
The gondola/gondola "proposal" --- two years promised, no proposal yet on the table from the mayor or Mr. Peterson --- keeps changing. It was first as Lift Ogden envisioned it a tram [like at Snow Bird or Albuquerque] from the benches to Snow Basin. Then it changed to gondolas to Snow Basin. When the Snow Basin connection died, it changed to gondolas to WSU, then gondolas to Malan's basin, financed by the sale of the Mt. Ogden parklands to Mr. Peterson so he could raise the funds for this project he can't raise, apparently, in private markets.
Is any of this feasible? Nobody has offered any feasibility studies of the engineering, the economics, no market studies to indicate economic viability, no cost studies, etc. etc. etc. So, exactly what is there to debate, other than the constantly changing "target" of the "concept" of a tram, or a gondola, or two gondolas, going to a mini ski resort not yet built the feasibility of which is open to question. And all of this costing what? We have no idea from the mayor or anyone else other than it will cost millions and cost the city its largest public park.
So, what other than some constantly changing hazy thing the mayor likes to call "the [singular] gondola" would there be to debate?
Both those considerations [class time conflicts, and nothing specific being on the table to discuss] played a role I think in why at least some of those who are generally in opposition didn't take part.
I love the mayor. He thinks small like me. He continues with his small vision to give Peterson an option on the golf course that he can flip. He spends tax money trying to bump up the value of his little slum properties. And now that nobody else is interested in Peterson – not even Peterson it seems – Godfrey pitches the small-minded fantasy to the college newspaper to a bunch of kids.
Since most of what he told the students were the same old lies, no opposition to him was present – out of boredom.
The groups of people who will listen to him continue to grow smaller. I like the way he operates. He should have been a Bonsai.
Curm is right about the reasons some of us didn't participate in the student-proposed "debate". I had a class at that hour and my first obligation is to my own students. But I'm not sure I would have accepted even if the timing would have worked out. A year ago the mayor challenged me to a debate and I said I'd be happy to debate him when we're working from the same set of facts. So I asked him to provide answers to five factual questions about the claims that were being made at that time. He didn't respond at all for two months, and then his response merely stated that the answers would be provided "over the coming weeks and months". Now it's been nearly a full year and he's still refusing to answer these basic factual questions about the proposal. As long as there's no actual concrete proposal, it's a moving target and you can't really debate it.
I actually suggested to the students that instead of debating the gondola, we debate transit alternatives for Ogden or some other topic on which we have a basis of actual facts. They weren't interested.
I think had Neil Hansen been invited to be at WSU he would have given a opposing point of veiw. Some one from WSU should give him a call and see if he would address the same classes.
I like Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's rhetorical refrain: "What's the downside?" He's been squeaking about this for two years, and he's always received ample answers. I'm glad he's making appearances in front of voters as the moronic man-child, silly-ass Gondola Godfrey that he is. What a jackass.
Don't drink the kool-aid. What do we know about out door recreation companies? They come and go faster than anything since the webbased sales bust last decade. To point this out, when did Amer sport buy Solomon? 2005. This is exactly the reason they were looking to relocate, their exsisting facility was not adequate. All Godfrey's BS aside, the multi-millions the STATE gave them, is why their coming. Wouldn't it be ironic if before they even move here they sell the brand to some other concern thats looking to salvage their bottom line short term,just like Amersport did? Think about this industry, over the last two decades how many different names come to mind, as the next big thing? How many giants are but trivial remnants of some huge fad long run out of steam? How about Amersports previous leader, Wilson? Once the king, now just a recognizable shell of the big market share. Their remaining products ok, none concidered the ultimate must have brand. All this marketing Ogden as some outdoor mecca for outdoor marketing and warehouse firms seems rather silly when you break it down. Ogden has great amenities for the people that live here regarding outdoor recreation, but like Wilson sporting goods, we're not something the whole world can't live without. If it's skiing, Snow Basin and Powder Mtn. are nice, but look around, the world has so many larger and more recognizable resorts, including the rest of the Wasatch Front. If it's mountain biking, look to Moab, or anywhere in the west with lots of BLM and Forest Service lands. If it's kayaking Ogden really isn't on the map. Ya we can get wet in the Weber and portions of the Ogden, fun for an after work outing, but no kayaking destination, hardly comparable to the Locksa,Salmon,Snake,Payette,Clearwater,Flathead and the list goes on and on. The article in Sunset magazine was pointing out what nice amenities we have for the citizens that live here. They weren't pumping Ogden as a backpacking destination for world adventurers. Why would they? There's Yellostone,Glacier, the Bob Marshall, the River of no Return, the High Uintas, the Wind Rivers, these are must go destinations. Climbing on rocks? Yes we have some fine climbing, but not world renowned ascents. So why all this HYPE by Godfrey? Because it's an easy way to appear to have done something positive while he's been in office. It's buzz it's hype, it's totally meaningless in the big picture. To the ignorant voter in November, the rec center will be just opened,he'll call it high adventure but get real, look up adventure in the dictionary, non starter,including the word high, blasphemy. Then he will expound this vision of an outdoor recreation merchandizer paradise, parading Mike Dowse the Geigers and anyone else that was payed to come,proclaiming success, what a great vision. It'll be like a high jumper setting the bar at 3 ft. and the announcers complimenting on his great form.
"...we wonder whether it isn't just a bit inelegant for Emerald City's BDO manager, Mr. Reid, to be involving himself personally in property development at The Junction. Whether this proposed property acquisition represents at least a potential conflict with his contractual obligations at BDO we can only speculate. However, this situation has a bad smell to it, we think."
Hmmmmm... reaching conclusions without doing the research necessary to ground those conclusions on fact and evidence. Is the WCF taking reasoning lessons from the Godfrey Gondola team now?
I received this prophecy and delivered it to the stated recipients last month, and I now wish to stab them in the back by revealing it to the world. Why would I do that? Hey, come on, it’s what I do.
“Let my servant Pancakeface secure two cheap engineering concurrences for his ski resort proposal. Let his proposal be vague, but say that now he will pay for the gondola, and the ski resort, all by himself. Let him say no public funding or involvement will be needed, other than for adjustment of a few minor property lines and ordinances. Let him secretly show his plan to the Standard Examiner on October 15th, so they can prepare a front page spread for the 21st. Then, let him hold his press conference on the 19th. Let him say his plan to pay for it all himself is ‘contingent on the city maintaining its current dynamic course.’
“Let my servant Greasysquirt continue to press for the gondola, but remembering the adage that one should not prematurely cast his choicest horse biscuits before the masses, lest those with noses sniff you out. And let those with noses be called as always, ‘naysayers.’
“Let my servant Bobbycurt prepare phony letters to the editor, touting Greasysquirt. Let him prepare other letters from phony friends and relatives of Neil Hansen implying he has skeletons in his closet and is incompetent. Let them send these letters in October also.
“And let my servant Bulbhead not use the words of this prophecy for his cheesy TV pilot pitch meetings. I have enough help in Hollywood already.
“Lastly, I command you to write these words, that you may see when they are all fulfilled.”
The prospect of "debating" Godfrey on the double-gondola non-resort-serving non-proposed alternative solution to transit issues that cannot be solved by a gondola is laughable.
It reminds me of the old Southern adage:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It will only frustrate you, and annoy the pig."
I wanted to tell the students quoted in the article, "look, a 'debate' is where there is a proposition on the table, and the two sides take turns arguing either for or against the proposition using evidence and logic."
I don't think Mayor Godfrey is capable of engaging in this style of reasoned discourse. He's neither a Lincoln nor a Douglas.
The entire episode is simple, really, tragically embarassing for Ogden, and it doesn't take a super-duper, extra-specially smart "ski hub" businessman (who knows, based on sound market economics fundamentals, how great of an idea stretching an amusement park gimmick across several miles of urban thoroughfare to serve a non-existent fairy-tale castle in the woods, guarded by magical dwarves and which's sewer waste will be transported via sh++ orbs underneath gondola cars) to figure it out: Little Matty Gondola Godfrey (by virtue of his Messianic complex and his self-professed "vision" from God that he lead OTown to greatness by installing a circus ride to nowhere), the community-saviorian Geigers (THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE; Wolfgang Puck will build a restaurant in the castle! I promise!), Gondola Boy Mike Dowse (jackass!), G-Train Wilkerson (choose to be a hero or a zero!), Scott "Gimme' back my porn!" Brown, Gadi "That $11 million is mine! Mine! Mine!" Leshem, Bernie Allen (you embarass me) and simpletons like Messers Safsten and Stephenson have all been duped; think about it hard for a minute, geniuses: You've been promised that Wayne and his Squirrel Patrol will find a way to connect to Snowbasin. You've whispered that to each other countless times, and to people whom you assume would be friendly to your cause. But look at the hard facts: A $100 million conveyance to Snowbasin (even if it went there, which it won't)from downtown will never generate the necessary 8,000 riders per day it needs to break even; hell, you wouldn't get 4,000 in four months. You will never secure permission from UDOT to string your moronic sky ride up above Harrison; if you try to build it up 23rd, you'll be sued by property owners; if you try to sell our public land to finance one-fifth of it, you'll be sued by various parties. It's silly, all this Godfrey Gondola madness, and it's not going to stop until your lardass and your teeny-tiny heroes realize they've been dwelling in Narnia.
The young lady that did the report for the Sign Post failed to pick up on the BIGGEST insight produced by the whole farcical gathering. Godfrey revealed that Chris Peterson is more important to his Ogden than WSU. He bad mouthed the Administration, said he had a higher power than Milner, that would bring her in line and stated the WSU could have a campus twice the size of the current one, in Davis County,SAY WHAT. I wonder if his childish, sociopathic, smug little brain is already calculating how many patio home could be placed on the current campus.
We gots a special treat for our Weber County Forum readers tonight, Bill C.:
One of our gentle readers this evening sent us a full transcript of Boss Godfrey's 4/16/07 WSU apearance.
We plan to convert it to html when time permits. But for now, here it is a Adobe PDF format:
Transcript D-04-16-2007
Containing:
Mayor Godfrey at WSU
ENJOY!
Rudi:
Thanks for the transcript.
Now we know that Mayor Godfrey knows more about academic administration than the entire WSU administration, Board of Trustees, and Utah State Board of Regents.
What a swell guy.
What he knows about "academic integrity" (p. 35) would fit into a very very small thimble.
Geez...he mangles the King's English...he's a lying bastard and S.O.B.! Still talking about Malan's and Snow Bird coming together...only natural.
Lies abut Peterson. Summer is a better time to be at malan's anyway...all those students converging on WSU...and when you go somewhere and say you're from Weber...why people will KNOW you're really from someplace.
Does this horse's ass ever blush?
I'd say more, but ah'm t'ard and going to bed! thanks, Rudi!!
Rudi and Curmudgeion, Rudi is wrong in his assumption and comment: "In another Std-Ex story, we learn that the Emerald City Council has cobbled together a $43.2 million "wish list," identifying capital improvement projects to be prioritized over the next five years. Among the projects approved in concept only during last night's council session (no actual funds were committed,) were various street, sidewalk and building repairs, together with improvements at the FrontRunner station. Noticeably absent from from the council list are improvements to the city's woefully dilapidated water and sewer systems, which bodes well for sellers of bottled water in the city's East Bench area, we suppose."
Those projects listed by Schwebke in his article on the Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) are the top ten projects proposed for FY 2008 with a price tag of $1,147,073. Also, $1,470,275. of Enterprise funds are being considered to help with water problems in FY 2008. In 2007 $1,055,450. of Enterprise funds were used for the pressure regulators. Between 2009 and 2012$5,675,225. of Enterprise funding is proposed to address our water problems.
This year (FY 2007) $317,100. of Enterprise funds have been approved for sewer problems. Fy 2008 the same amount is being proposed. Between 2009 and 2012 $6,777,700. of Enterprise funds have been proposed for our sewer system.
I hope these figures ease somewhat your concerns that the water and sewer systems are not being ignored, and I hope in the future, Rudi, that you will not rely ONLY on what the Standard Ex prints to assail the Council.
There is one thing we can always rely on with Mayor Godfrey,
He will always lie even when the truth is better.
And speaking of lies, here is just a couple of the many doozies that Godfrey let fly at Weber:
"Malan’s Basin used to be a resort about 100 years ago. There was tourism that happened there.
Presidents of the United States stayed up in Malan’s Basin, and so the idea of recreating this resort up in the basin and making it not just a place to stay —kind of a bed and breakfast as it was before"
In the same paragraph he says there was a "resort" in Malan's basin and then he says it was just a "bed and breakfast".
The other big whopper that he and Peterson have been telling all along is the one about "Presidents of the Unites States staying at Malan's Basin". It absolutely never happened! Matt and Chriss are obviously illiterate or disingenuous when it comes to history - and economics.
Teddy Roosevelt stayed one night at the Hermitage in Ogden Canyon, but no other President of that era ever stayed overnight in this area let alone in Malan's basin.
Like I said in the last post: This turkey will lie even when the truth is better.
Thanks for setting the record straight, Councilwoman Jeske. We, of all people, should know better than to rely entirely on the accuracy of the Standard-Examiner.
We would also like to thank you, Rick Safsten and Amy Wicks for following the discussion here at Weber County Forum, and offering your comments and clarifications (at varying intervals,) when the discussion goes occasionally off-track.
We have thousands of Utah readers who regularly follow this blog, people who are highly motivated to educate themselves on local events and issues. The frequent participation of local elected officials in the ongoing discussion is something we encourage. Not only does it add great value to our own 24/7 dialoge; we believe it also enables our public officials to better assess the public pulse.
Thanks again for joining into the discussion, Ms. Jeske (and council-members Safsten and Wicks.) It's refreshing to observe that at least some of our elected officials don't choose to reside in an ivory tower.
Councilwoman Jeske:
Thanks for the clarification. In defense of Mr. Schwebke, because the morning-after Council Meeting stories necessarily have to be filed late there is relatively little space reserved for them, so his coverage cannot be as comprehensive as you --- and I --- might like. And the SE story does seem to have focused on the ten items to which the Council gave priority.
All of which gives me the chance to raise again the question of why City Council meetings cannot be put on what is ostensibly the City's cable channel [17].
I understand doing it live would be expensive, perhaps prohibitively expensive [though medium-sized cities all over the country do it regularly]. But surely tapes of the meetings --- there are already monitors in the Council chamber so taping the meetings should not be prohibitively expensive --- could be run on Channel 17 several times during the week following the meetings. That would give those of us interested in a particular matter the chance to see what went on, to hear the presentations to the Council by administrative staff, to hear the discussion among Council members, and [in this case] to learn that significant money was planned in the capital construction budgets going forward for sewer repairs. We would not then be dependent entirely on the SE's necessarily selective morning-after story.
Of course, televising the Council meetings would mean that two or three repetitions of the mayor's weekly quota of televised gondola propaganda might have to be dropped, but hey... everything has a price.
Thanks again for the clarification, Ms. Jeske.
"Of course, televising the Council meetings would mean that two or three repetitions of the mayor's weekly quota of televised gondola propaganda might have to be dropped, but hey... everything has a price."
Yes indeed, Curm...
"We must all make sacrifices," as Boss Godfrey is always quick to remind us.
Very good suggestion Curm, I don't believe it would break the bank, we going to be subsidizing the rec center $145,000.00 per month, this hasn't stopped the mayor from doing his live show.(which has changed format,no live on air questions)In fact, airng city government at work would be more in line with the original intent of having such a station. I don't believe it was ever to be the soul property of one branch of city government,used as only a propaganda tool by the mayor to further his own personal agenda with only him in control of program access.
Rudi, thanks so much for posting that transcript of the mayor's presentation at WSU. As I said above, I wasn't able to attend. There are lots of fascinating quotes buried in that document. Some are newsworthy because they're departures from what's been said in the past. Others are newsworthy because they're severe distortions of the facts. But I hesitate to go into a lot of detail here, at the bottom of yesterday's thread. Any chance you could promote this item to its own thread in the near future?
Our pleasure, Dan.
We think this transcript is quite significant, not only in the sense it preserves the discussion during the 4/16/07 WSU event.
We think it also provides general insight into Boss Godfrey's entire Dog & Pony Show schpiel, in that it highlights the sales pitch he's been regurgitating for over a year now, at his various "informational events."
And yas... We do intend to feature this information as a main article...
Just as soon as we get our mitts on a digitized version, which we understand to be in the process of preparation.
Daps, I have to agree with you: “Hmmmmm... reaching conclusions without doing the research necessary to ground those conclusions on fact and evidence. Is the WCF taking reasoning lessons from the Godfrey Gondola team now?” It seems to me that Rudi Zink and most of the posters on WCF are doing exactly what a few days ago they chastised the SE for doing over the negotiated pay raise for Ogden City employees – spouting off without getting the facts. I didn’t see Rudi Zink or anyone else who wasn’t on the agenda there except for four faithful citizens who are always there. I will address each of these issues and give the explanation/information that was presented to the Council and to the Board as well as I can remember or the reason that they voted unanimously as far as I saw it. I'll use my notes, but if I miss something or misunderstood what was said, I hope they will clarify the point.
1. Sale of PRI Land in Junction: Rudi Zink and others, if the City and RDA are selling land right and left to pay for work at the Junction, how do you expect them to buy the PRI property? You would have yelled your head off if they had borrowed money from a bank to buy it, but without any money what were they supposed to do with the land? Let the weeds grow on it? At least this way there will be shops and restaurants on the ground level, condos, townhouses and apartments. I believe it was Mrs. Jeske who questioned whether there was a conflict with Reid being under contract at BDO for the city and being a developer in the Junction for the city. Mr. Safsten compared it to one of the council members buying a piece of land for a residence or even business and not being able to because they were on the council. The city attorney said that he didn’t think that there was a conflict.
2. RDA Tax Increment Funds: Mr. Harmer did an excellent job of explaining what tax increment funds (TIF) and “hair cut” funds are. Too bad you weren’t there so you would have an understanding of these funds and how they really work. I will try to explain them, but I know that it won’t be as good as Mr. Harmer’s explanation.
a. Before any TIF funds can be used on any RDA project, the Taxing Entities, (Weber County, Ogden City, Ogden School District, and a couple of small governing entities) have to approve the project and the use of TIF funds. In some cases, the school district is granted immunity, and does not participate in the project as a taxing entity.
b. The RDA project tax increment is computed by taking the current tax income it receives and subtracts it from the projected tax income when the project is done. While the project is being developed, the city collects the property tax that the company generates, and instead of the tax revenue being divided among the taxing entities, it is returned to the company to help them establish their business. A time limit is placed on the RDA project – 10, 15 or 20 years, but the tax income that the company receives decreases each year, and that amount is divided between the taxing entities until the project has reached maturity, at which time all the increased property tax is divided among the three.
c. Just like the Junction and the river front are being developed in several phases, Kemp is developing the Gateway in three different phases. In 2004, the RDA Board approved a resolution authorizing the RDA executive director (the mayor) to enter into a development agreement with Kemp using tax increment. In order that the RDA/City not violate any grant agreements, they needed to change the tax increment agreement. The first agreement was for Bldg. 1, which is 78,000 square feet for $935,000. The RDA Board approved Tuesday night to amend the current development agreement and that $1.1 of TIF funds be issued for Bldg. 2, which is 91,000 square feet. So far the tax base has increased 34%.
Just a note of interest: The Ogden-Weber ATC has an agreement through Williams to provide a 4-year machinist training program to train machinist for Adam Aircraft. This program is funded by Williams. The entry wage for these machinist when they complete the program will be $78,000.
3. U.S. FOODS: U.S. Foods needs to expand their facility, and wants to build a facility in the U.S. comparable to their home facility in Europe which will be a $30 million dollar warehousing and distribution facility. That would be just the first phase, as they anticipate a possible expansion within five years after the first phase is completed. They looked at Tremonton as a possible site, and have been looking at a site in the Orem-Provo area, one in Pocatello, Idaho and one in Tennessee, I think they said as well as one in Ogden. They would probably bring 250 jobs from Clearfield. They want to own their facility and not rent so that eliminated BDO as a possible site. According to the agreement, if the tax increment revenue is not enough to make the payment on the bond, then U.S. Foods will make up the difference. Things are better than they look, and even Sharon commented in Council meeting that she thought the Council had made a good decision on the U.S. Foods proposal.
JUST CHECK OUT THE FACTS, MA’AM! JUST THE FACTS! Before jumping to conclusions.
Always around, you seems to be missing the point, Adam Aircraft, though constantly mentioned through out the discussion, is not the beneficiary of the action. They get nothing, all this money goes to their landlord, Mel Kemp. The result is, whether Adam Aircraft sinks or swims, Kemp will get 1.1 million. The disengenuous nature of Harmer's presentation, all focussed on Adam Aircraft sucked you right in, along with most in attendance. This practice truely does cost the tax payer and is unfair, it' only granted to a certain few. Many long established businesses that have never received such a break( kick back) are left to picked up the slack, their taxes only rise over the 20 some years of the TIF, because the cost of services doesn't go down. Someone has to make up the difference. This, just like all previous TIFs is nothing more than an unnecessary, unfair gift, to one particular property owner.
Always Around:
Three points: (a) you are confusing "not doing the research" with "reaching a different conclusion on the basis of the facts than I do." It's perfectly possible for someone to understand how TIF works and to conclude that such funding is not wise and not in the public interest. There are those who think that, and not just in Utah. [In the Southeast, for example, there are lots of instances in which states invested heavily via tax rebates, etc. to draw industry, and when the ten year exemption was up, the industries moved to states that offered new and even greater tax incentives.] So the mere fact that someone disagrees about the wisdom of TIF as public policy does not mean they are necessarily uninformed.
My own POV is that the US Foods bonding was wise public policy, and the Kemp bonding may not have been. We shall see how it all plays out.
Same point applies to the conflict-of-interest matter. It's a judgement call. My own view is that because the downtown property will not be seeking businesses that BDO seeks, there is no real conflict of interest. Others think differently. When you cite Mr. Safsten's comments on the matter, you are conveying his opinion on this [with which I agree], not "information" that those who think differently didn't bother to research. And I note again that the questionable handshake deal between the Mayor and Mr. Reid regarding his termination pay from his former city job all but inevitably will raise suspicions [justified or not] about all future financial dealings between Mr. Reid and the City. He and the Mayor have no one but themselves to blame for creating that suspicion, it seems to me.
(b) Your post [which is detailed, thoughtful and civil and I wish we had more of those, particularly from people who generally think differently than most of us who post here do on public matters] is yet more evidence for the wisdom of the Council televising its sessions, even on a tape delay basis. You informed us all of several statements made the the Council meeting which were not reported in the press. I couldn't agree more that the more informed public discussion is in Ogden, the better off we all will be in the long run. If the Council meetings were televised, more of us would have had the opportunity of hearing the presentation and discussion on TIF funding and the land sale. Hope I can count on you to contact Council members about the wisdom of televising their meetings, so the discussion of future matters by the public will be more informed than it now is. Always glad for help on this.
(c) Always Around, have to tell you that I am delighted that you and Daps agree that reaching conclusions without bothering to do the necessary research first is a hallmark of the Godfrey Gondola team.
I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the RDA to present a TIF for Stuart Reid. How BIG?
Did Larry Miller receive such an offering?
The bottom line is that Kemp has recieved $3 plus million dollars of free money compliments of the tax payers of Weber County.
You can dress it up and call it whatever you want, but it is still what it is. Put a pretty dress and bonnet on a pig and it is still a pig. Any way you cut this deal it stinks.
The only time TIF financing even remotely makes sense or is fair is if something gets built that absolutely unequivocally would not have been built other wise. Very few of Ogden's TIF deals meet this standard. This is why Ogden's RDA has been considered the poster child of corrupt use of RDA and TIF financing.
Kemps building at the airport is the worst example. It was built BEFORE last years $2.5 million dollar gift from Godfrey via the TIF scheme.
Oz:
You wrote: This is why Ogden's RDA has been considered the poster child of corrupt use of RDA and TIF financing.
Considered so by who? Do you have an outside source --- newspaper article, report, study --- saying that? If so, please post.
Curm
Senator's Bramble and Stevenson
2005 legislature when they banned RDA's. They both used Ogden as an example of the abuse that needed to be corrected. This was in the middle of when Godfrey and Walmart were trying to steal people's homes for yet one more super mega WalMart on wall.
This was also before the Profiteers and developers corrupted them and forced their betrayal of Utah's property owners in the last session.
And let me beat you to the punch on this one - they are both Republicans, they are both spineless wienies who had brief moments as hero's to the land owners of the state before they caved to the true masters.
It is after all all about greed.
Oz:
Ah, ok. I recall their denouncing the Ogden RDA when the bill to ban unsing eminent domain by cities to benefit private developments came up. But did they say anything about TIF? That I don't recall. Just would be nice to have some sources opposing TIF as unwise public policy from folks who don't have a dog in the Ogden TIF fight on one side or the other.
Beat me to the punch mentioning their party? Why whatever do you mean? [grin]
TIF and RDA's are for all practical purposes one and the same. The TIF scam is the only viable source of funding for these otherwise unfeasible and off the wall deals that incompetent RDA's like Ogden's get the citizens involved in.
They somehow considered it free money and these geniuses treat it so. It is like they are playing monopoly.
They are incompetent but they think they are brilliant. They are Republicans but they act like old tax and spend Democrats. They wear expensive suits but they are morally and intelectually bankrupt.
GOP - Greedy Old Profiteers.
Abe and Ike must be a spinnin in their graves.
Curm...do you wear an expensive suit?
Just wonderin'
Not sure what you question has to do with anything, but hell, I'm game. I don't own a suit. And haven't for close to four decades now.
That information helpful in some way?
Well....four decades without a suit means you're probably getting long in the tooth. About the time of life when your buddies start dropping like flies.
What will you wear to their funerals?
"googy" gondola has a ring to it...but Goofy gondola is also alliteratively cogent.
Is Mansell a patsy, hand picked by Godfrey? Is she going to keep her mouth shut about 'hanky panky' in her office? Is she going to look 'the other way' when the Godfreyites are doing things that ain't kosher?
Will she be fired if she tells GRAMA requesters that the files 'aren't here'?
Stay tuned, folks.
Curmudgeon's stock just went up about a thousand percent in my book!
Not owning a suit for four decades is truly admirable and beats my record by about 20 years. I still got the old Armani in the trunk in the basement in case I lose twenty pounds before I die and if my daughter defies my instructions and tries to pimp up the corpse.
Monkeys and Godfreyites wear suits, soldiers for the truth don't.
And for you naysayers that think you got me on this one, it aint a suit if the pants and coat don't match and the socks are white.
jest wondered if curm was actin like one of them republicans who dresses up like a democrat.
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