This morning's Scott Schwebke article clarifies the situation somewhat. From appearances, it is evident that the council approved a stripped-down version of the proposed mixed use ordinance which has been rattling around the planning commission for many months.
OGDEN — After a spirited debate, the Ogden City Council approved an ordinance Tuesday night establishing a mixed-use zone that can be applied in two areas of Ogden.That this matter suddenly popped up on the council calender without fanfare, is troubling to some of us. We checked the council agenda, as published in the Standard Examiner on April 23, and this is the the language contained in that published notice:
The council agreed to allow the new zone to be used downtown and in redevelopment areas, such as property that includes the Ogden River Project. However, the council stopped short of allowing it to be extended to other parts of the city.
Several council members said they felt uncomfortable expanding application of the zone without further study.
“I’m not sure we have had time to look it over,” Councilwoman Susan Van Hooser said.
The council agreed to hold a work session on July 12 to review expanding the zone’s use.
TUESDAY - Ogden City Council - 5 p.m. work session, 2549 Washington Blvd.That's it. The published notice was sparse as sparse could be. NO mention of the Mixed Use Ordinance. No mention of the city council meeting agenda at all!
We have serious doubts whether the notice of last night's meeting even slightly conformed to legal notice requirements for the calendering of such an agenda item. In this connection, we urge our readers to contact the city council, and demand that this matter be calendered for reconsideration, in order that the council may benefit from citizen input, before this ordinance is put into final legal effect. We think our hapless council got steamrolled -- again; and we urge our readers to let the council know what we think about last night's rushed deliberation.
Several other interesting items also appear in the Standard-Examiner this morning:
Rocky Fluhart, Ogden Home-boy, former Emerald City CAO and Salt Lake City CAO under Mayor Anderson, weighs in this morning with his own thoughts on the Godfrey/Peterson Landgrab Scheme. Our readers will also no doubt recall an earlier Std-Ex guest commentary from Gretchen Fluhart, Rocky's lovely wife, Ogden native and lifelong Ogden resident. It would appear, based on these two articles, that Mr. and Mrs. Fluhart are anything but Godfrey-lemmings.
Concidentally perhaps, we also find an article about Gretchen's brother, another Ogden Native, Jeff Lowe. Jeff, an internationally-acclaimed mountaineer, is still working on his Ice Tower Project, according to this Bryce Johnson story:
OGDEN — The resurrection of Holographic Ice Tower, which has been laying dormant in a west Ogden parking lot for two years, seems about to begin.Jeff's project has apparently received the strong blessing of the Godfrey administration:
The location is still being determined. The money is still being raised.
But the tower’s proponents are sounding more optimistic than ever that the only refrigerated ice tower in the world could be standing, frozen, in Ogden by next winter’s first cold snap.
“I’m going to go out on a limb and say it will be (ready this winter),” said Jeff Lowe, who designed the tower in the mid-1990s for the ESPN X Games and has been orchestrating its revival.
Ogden Climbing Parks has already been approved for $200,000 in RAMP taxWe suggest that the fake mountain be installed on the plaza outside the Salomon Center three-story glass facade. That way the indoor "climbers" will be able to watch the ice climbers scale the faux ice mountain, while the "ice climbers" can view the "high adventure" activities on the indoor plastic mountain. That we think would be "most cool." "Synergistic" -- as Boss Godfrey would say.
money, half the estimated $400,000 it will take to upgrade and reconstruct the
65-foot tower. Lowe and Patterson said the group is applying for other grants to
cover the last $200,000.
The rebuilt tower will feature improved insulation and cooling systems that will make it more efficient and extend its ice season to at least five months a year, Lowe said. In the summer, it can be outfitted with soft wood for a similar climbing experience.
Ogden Climbing Parks has a lease agreement with the city to build the tower at Big Dee Sports Park, just off Harrison Boulevard on the Ogden River Parkway. But Patterson said the city is hoping the tower can be built downtown.
“Because of the iconic nature of this tower, it should be downtown, where it’s seen by our community and helps to add to that high-adventure extreme sport flavor that we’re trying to create,” [John] Patterson said.
And one of these days we hope that someone will be able to query Jeff Lowe, for his opinion on the Godfrey/Peterson landgrab. Whether Jeff Lowe is aboard the G-Train, is one of our most tantalizing unanswered questions.
We apologize for the late posting of this article. We've been plagued this morning with a series of technical problems.
The floor is open -- at last.
73 comments:
The Fluhart piece is indeed excellent.
Particularly good, and from someone who is in a position to know, pointing out that covering the city's hillside parklands with upscale vacation villas is not only not a way to promote growth and development in Ogden, it is a way to retard both.
Good too in asking the questions many of us have been asking about Hizzonah's wildly speculative trade-our-parklands-for-a-tourist-sky-ride for a while now. Particularly, Mr. Fluhart wants to know, what market study suggests that there is a demand for second home vacation properties in Ogden? Such properties, he argues, will continue to sell where they are selling now: in the Upper Ogden Valley, not in the city.
All around thoughtful piece and a chewy read.
I was impressed by the Fluhart article.
And I am hard to impress.
Interesting tidbit I learned from former Ogden CAO Nate Pierce in doing my continuing research on the Ogden Community Foundation.
The Foundation received a sizeable grant of from $10,000.00 to $20,000.00 specifically for the Ice Mountain project.
Maybe Jeff Lowe would like to elaborate on the project and the grant.
It seems from the papers that Mr. Godfrey has returned to one of his trademark tactics in dealing with a Council that just might have the temerity to actually want more information than his administrative spokespersons have offered about his proposals before voting on them: the contrived urgent deadline.
All of the current Council members except I think Ms. Van Hooser were on board when Hizzonah last year came to the Council with a proposal to add two additional floors of office space to the office tower going up on the mall site. The city's consultant on the project, Boyer and Co., recommended against adding the two additional floors. Hizzonah insisted that the Council must act on the matter immediately, on the very night he raised the question, because construction was about to proceed and absolutely no delay in deciding the matter could be tolerated.
To its credit, the Council insisted it did not have the information it needed to make an informed decision... you know, unreasonably arcane information like what was the current office occupancy rate for various classes of office space in Ogden. And so the Council refused to act immediately, seeking more information.
Lo and behold, the Mayor was back a week later, or perhaps it was two, and magically, the urgency of the previous deadline had somehow disappeared. His former claim that the matter had to be decided immediately at the previous Council meeting had become [in a phrase from the Nixon administration that will live in infamy] "inoperative." There was still time, the Mayor now insisted, to authorize the extra two floors.
The council voted 4-3 to reject the mayor's suggestion. That may have been wise. It may not have been. The point I want to make here is that the urgent deadline, the mayor's insistence that action had to be taken immediately, turned out to have been a charade, and attempt to pressure the Council into hasty action. Happily, the Council refused to be panicked into making an uninformed decision.
This is not by any means the first time Hizzonah has used the contrived urgent deadline to try to stampede the Council into action.
Consumer Reports advises its readers that whenever they run into a salesman insisting that the price just quoted for new aluminum siding, or storm windows, or the car you want to buy, "is only good for today, if you sign now. The special discount I am able to offer will not be good unless you sign today, " they should run, not walk, to the nearest exit. Such high pressure tactics should always, CR suggests, make you suspicious that the great deal you are being offered will not stand up to examination and careful review.
That's very good advice from CR. For consumers. And for Ogden City Council members too.
I wonder if some of this rush, rush, has anything to do with Moyal's seemingly Pyrrhic victory, with the ombudsman.
Rudi,
On June 15, 2005 you disclosed:
"Jeff Lowe's an old pal of mine who goes way back."
And today you say:
"And one of these days we hope that someone will be able to query Jeff Lowe, for his opinion on the Godfrey/Peterson landgrab. Whether Jeff Lowe is aboard the G-Train, is one of our most tantalizing unanswered questions."
It seems that someone should be you!
I'm still very disturbed about Godfrey's actions last night.
Fact Checker: I find it difficult to believe that STATE law permits a mayor to interject him/her/self into a legislative body's deliberations and session to LOBBY and forcefully push for the Legislative Body to change their votes to hand the mayor what he wants.
PLEASE BE KIND ENOUGH TO PROVIDE THE LINK TO THAT SECTION OF THE STATE LAW. THANK YOU.
This mayor almost had apoplexy demanding that the Council fall into his trap!
If the mayor is allowed by STATE statute to force his will on the Council, then why have a legislative body at all?
This little bully has said that, "This is a republic. The people elected ME and I will make decisions for them".
My GAWD! Doesn't that send shivers up your spines? Wouldn't and shouldn't we expect that this Council, OUR LEGISLATIVE BODY, to shiver with revulsion that this temper tantrum throwing bully believes HE knows what is best for this city? And HE alone??
Is anyone else sickened that Godfrey bullied and lobbied for HIS WAY last night and he won?
What is wrong with this council? They are intelligent people. Yet, they allowed all reason to go out of their heads when Stephenson and Safsten fell in with Godfrey to snooker them into voting "yes" on the MU Ordinance.
This ordinance is BAAAAD law. It was conceived in the nefarious brain of Ellison...Peterson's mouthpiece and architect of the BIG LANDGRAB AND SWINDLE.
This council wouldn't even DEMAND to know who the 'developer' is who needs this MU passed so he can get to work by June 4th!!!
I beleive it was Stephens who asked of Mongomery, 'Is it appropriate to ask who this developer is?'
Montgomery said, 'NO"....and by darn....THEY DIDN'T DEMAND TO KNOW THE DEVELOPER'S NAME!!!
I begged them to ask. It's their duty to know.
OSTRICHES!
It's Godfrey's proven MO...rush, rush, rush. Did it with the rec center...now we're bonded up the wa zoo...with the two extra floors...thank goodness, the Council voted that folly down...and now this June 4 deadline.."at least give me something!", whined and bullied the little dictator and the Council fell into line.
Ever seen a mother held hostage in a grocery store by a rotten, screaming, tantrum throwing, red-faced little brat? NO?
Then you should have been at the council meeting last night!
what jeff wants is nothing more than Corporate welfare. I wonder how much the mayor is on the take for a campaign contribution. if this is such a good Idea then he should go ge a loan for the money.
Sharon:
You wrote:
If the mayor is allowed by STATE statute to force his will on the Council, then why have a legislative body at all?
Unless the Mayor was packing heat and threatening to use it, he did not "force his will" on the Council. The members, who by law are the only ones who can vote on matters before them, could have voted "no." If you don't like the Council's decision last night, as evidently you don't, then put the responsibility where it belongs: with the members. The Mayor did not, and can not, force them to vote as he wishes.
If you are saying that the Mayor's powers of persuasion are so great, and the Council members' self-confidence and sense of independence so weak, that Gofrey vs. Council was a mismatch from opening bell to decision, then again the fault lies with the Council, not with the Mayor.
Perhaps you should at least consider the possibility that the Council majority considered the Administration's argument about the need for fast action to be a reasonable one --- perhaps in light of the Ombudsman's recent advisory opinion as Bill C. suggests.
From the SE story, I suspect you are in your outrage, overstating the case. According to Mr. Schwebke, Hizzonah did not get everything he wanted last night, but only part of it. Since I still don't know exactly what the Council adopted [not having seen the motion, only differing versions of its intent], I'm not sure if they acted wisely or not on this particular matter. But it seems from the SE story that they did not sit up, fetch, and roll over as obediently as you suggest.
Oh Curm...don't be tiresome. You weren't there!
You admit in one breath that you don't know everything, then you suggest my 'outrage' is a bit over the top.
Well, my concern is that the mayor put himself into the legislative body's session and demanded their acquiescence. Garcia, IMHO, should have gaveled the little twerp out of the chambers...is that over the top enuf for you???
I've asked FACTCHECKER to cite and link the state law that allows that action by a mayor.
I AM castigating the Council for their roll over. There was nothing in Schwebke's story to suggest that they didn't 'roll over'.
It's outrageous that the council, five members whom I KNOW previously understood that this is Peterson's big move on our land, then lost sight of that and caved in.
I think YOU should really understand what happened last night and the victory the little guy won!
I'm still waiting for FACTCHECKER to be kind enuf to link the state statute here.
In the meantime, I'm having a diet coke...maybe you could have a tepid shower. Nothing too shocking.
Wait a minnit...if Lowe rec'd $10,000. to $20,000. for his ice tower, why does he need $400,000. now?
Where did the $10,000.to $20,000. go...OR to whom?
Is that in the rec center 'climbing wall'?
Mother, base . . .
Look before you leap. Jeff's organization, Ogden Climbing Parks, is a 501(c)3.
Oh, and Sharon,
You look rather pale, go out and get some sun, the vitamin D will do you good! ;)
Dear Dr Damned...thank you....I hope you're running a free clinic?
I'm taxed half to death and can't afford an exorbitant medical fee.
Loves, sharon
Sharon:
Sorry, I don't do links--just facts. But, I'll be happy to copy my prior post below:
fact checker said...
Sharon:
You asked whether it is illegal or unethical for the mayor to interject himself into City Council discussions.
The answer is found in state law 10-3-1219(2)(g), which states that the mayor shall:
"(g) attend all meetings of the council with the right to take part in all discussions and the responsibility to inform the council of the condition and needs of the municipality and make recommendations and freely give advice to the council, except that the mayor may not vote in council meetings;"
What is the Ogden Community Foundation?
If they are building Ice Mountains are they in the amusement park business like the Rec Center?
Sara:
A lot of us would like to know what the Ogden Community Foundation is since as of the first of 2007 they now own the old American Can property that has the Da Vinci School on it.
It is a big dark SECRET SECRET.
What gives with Da Vinci School Academy since it sounds like everybody is getting fired.
That is strange because I just heard that they had their school inspection and passed with flying colors so they don't have another inspection for 6 years.
The fired principal Reese must not have done the supposedly poor job he was fired about. And what about the latest teacher who got canned?
Bill C
A pyrrhic victory is a victory non the less. It was my impression that the ombudsman delivered an opinion that was against the mayor and in favor of Moyal?
What I am waiting for is someone to
hand the little prick's head to him on a platter. Somebody like the US Attorney.
How about his tiny anatomy handed to him in a Dixie cup? should be a loose fit.
Fact Checker
As long as you want to trot out state code, try this one for size:
10-3-1306. Interest in business entity regulated by municipality -- Disclosure statement required.
(1) Every appointed or elected officer or municipal employee who is an officer, director, agent, or employee or the owner of a substantial interest in any business entity which is subject to the regulation of the municipality in which he is an elected or appointed officer or municipal employee shall disclose the position held and the nature and value of his interest upon first becoming appointed, elected, or employed by the municipality, and again at any time thereafter if the elected or appointed officer's or municipal employee's position in the business entity has changed significantly or if the value of his interest in the entity has increased significantly since the last disclosure.
(2) The disclosure shall be made in a sworn statement filed with the mayor. The mayor shall report the substance of all such disclosure statements to the members of the governing body, or may provide to the members of the governing body copies of the disclosure statement within 30 days after the statement is received by him.
Mayor Godfrey, known slum lord in Ogden, HAS NEVER FILED these state mandated conflict of interest forms. Neither has any of his circle of empty suits.
They openly defy this part of state law just like they do any others that they don't feel like being bothered with.
The mayor doesn't even follow the letter of the law as outlined by fact checker in 10-3-1219(2)(g).
Seems like he is required by that law to keep the council informed in detail on such things as the water and sewer and all other infastructure. Stuff that he keeps secret from the council and the people of Ogden. The key words here are: "...the responsibility to inform the council of the condition and needs of the municipality"
He only tells the council what he wants them to know, and then only if he is trying to get them to give him what he wants.
Sneaky and secret is his MO in all that he does.
Lionel, I share your sentiments with regards to Godfrey, as for the pyrrhic victory, the ombudsman has no real legal standing. Moyal has been stymied by Godfrey and Montgomery, any futher action will be out of his pockets, through the legal system. His investment makes nothing, just grows. I have no idea how deep his pockets are, but to futher pursue justice may be out of his ability. So, he won a sort of meaningless decision as far as legalality, and the time and effort may have cost him a real win. The councils adoption of the amended MU for the River development gives Godfrey the ability to force him to demolish his buildings. PYRRHIC VICTORY. This should serve as notice for all how this administration deals with those outside their cozy cabal. P.S. you can hear the whole council meeting on thei website. Montgomery starts 1 hr. 9 min. into it.
Something I forgot to mention, Just prior to the MU hearing, the council did go into closed session, for what, no one knows.( speculate potential litigation) But during the open discussion Moyal case never came up.
Sharon:
From Mr. Schwebke's story: Council men Brandon Stephenson and Rick Safsten argued that limiting application of the mixed-use zone to only the downtown and redevelopment areas was unfair to potential projects in other parts of the city.
“What’s good for the goose is good for the gander,” Safsten said.
Mayor Matthew Godfrey interrupted the council’s debate and said it doesn’t make sense to limit application of the ordinance.
There will be plenty of opportunity to determine where to apply the mixed-use zone as projects are presented to the council for approval, he said.
So, I repeat, from what he reported, it does not seem the Mayor got everything he wanted from the Council last night.
Of course he did! Ask Dorrene, Susan, doug and Amy what they really know about the MU and what it means for our open sapaces?
You don't think the mayor celebrated with a glass of tomato juice or whatever?
He should have been ignored. Instead, the Council, with the exception of Dorrene, rolled over.
All the questons, all the agonizing, all the prepatory work beforehand to understand this ordinance, and they STILL voted with the little twerp!
That was victory for him!
Try to make the next meeting when these issues come up...see for yourself. then you won't have to take Schwebke's account or mine at face value.
I'm done.
The Council has issued a press release on what it calls the Water Horizons plan, which includes hiring a professional consultant to look at Ogdens water, storm drains and sewage problems and to make recommendations regarding the financing of necessary repairs and upgrades. Link here.
I greatly appreciate Sharon's work. I would like to offer some thoughts.
The MUO that the PC recommended, as I recall, was quite different from the Ellison one, and was chock full of approval points that would have to be implemented before a multiple use went through in any part of the city.
The real beef, expressed by the public at the PC meeting, was this MUO should not apply city wide, but should be limited to downtown. And that is was what the CC appears to have approved. Recall the frantic efforts of Godfrey and his two council gargoyles to have it apply city-wide, but they lost. Now it will fall to Lurch Montgomery to try another arm twisting session with the council on July 12 to make it apply city wide after all. But the last time he tried his tire-iron on them – on his Sensitive Overlay atrocity where he wanted to lift the 30% restriction – he failed too, so far.
And since the city (illegally) cut off development in the River District, there was a need for this MOU for work to continue, since the city has accepted Uncle Montgomery’s view that all development in the city must only occur with his bureaucratic fingers wrapped tightly around it, in the form of hideously complex codes. Once again, Monty causes the problem, then offers the solution: more power for him!
So it seems the council knows what the Administration Syndicate is trying to do, and they are passing what is needed, while removing the toxic waste booby traps the Syndicate has placed here and there.
Godfrey has been far from successful. He told Peterson the city would bend over for him, but so far, the city has done nothing with regard to the bench land that Peterson wanted. And the Education Establishment has wisely turned the silly scheme down flat.
So it’s not so bad at all, I feel, except for this –
Sweet Flying Jupiter, when a council member wants to know who the developer is, as Stephens asked, and Uncle Mo tells him to kiss off, the council should move, second and approve a motion that Mo and Matt can GO TO BLAZES until they learn who the city council is! Doreene was right to vote no. We wonder sometimes if these council members have spines. I think they have spines, but I wonder if they have self respect!
And Curm is right, the rule here is the rule in life: If they give insufficient details and say you gotta decide right now, the best advice is to run, don’t walk, away. Honest people give details, and time.
In other news, tonight the Planning Commission finished its work with the Mt. Ogden Community Plan, recommending that it be adopted by the Council.
The version that they approved tonight incorporates a handful of changes that were suggested during the public hearing three weeks ago. The most noteworthy of these is probably that the language regarding relocation of the clubhouse has been softened considerably, making it into a mere option rather than an objective. The language about WSU expanding northward to 36th Street remains in the plan, despite the fact that the affected residents of the block between 36th and Edvalson were not invited to take part in the community planning process.
There's no word yet on when the Council will consider the plan. Someone tonight said that residents of the Mt. Ogden community will receive mailed invitations in advance of that Council meeting.
Just got back from the world premier of the documentary "Ogden: Junction City of the West" at Peery's Egyptian Theater. Hell of a show. Really well done [by a WSU undergrad, by the way]. The place was packed. Very close to a sell out [750 or so]. Runs about an hour and a half. Really good work. If you get a chance to see it, its well worth the time.
And nice to see Ogdenites not running away from the town's raucous past. It's all there. From the quiet Mormon farming village to the wide-open frontier railroad town when Corinne lost out and its gambling halls, bordellos and saloons decamped to Ogden, to the bustling commercial town of the railroad's heyday, to soldiers seeking a little recreation on two-bit street on the way to the Pacific in WWII, to the decline when railroads lost their mail contracts to the air lines and the last Union Pacific passenger train left the station in the early 1970s, to 25th Street's decline into a skid row for the next two decades. The section on the Waiters and Porters Club [the only hotel, restaurant, jazz club it seems that was open to blacks on 25th Street in the days of segregation] was really good. Man, this town has an interesting past not at all in keeping with its buttoned-up civic image these days.
Hell of a show. And damn fine history. See it if you get the chance.
Danny:
Thanks for two things: first, "Lurch Montgomery." Love it!
Second: the point that follows "Sweet Flying Jupiter." [My own preference is "Great Caesar's Ghost," evidence of misspent hours watching the original TV superman series when growing up.] What astonished me was that Stephens apparently asked only if it would be appropriate to ask. And then neither he nor any other Council member actually did ask. Hard for me to understand that. If I were a Council member and not particularly interested in knowing who the developer was, the instant Mr. Montgomery told me it would be inappropriate to ask, I would have found it impossible not to ask. Often. And loudly.
Sharon:
This is the link to the applicable section of the Utah Code.
President Bush is right, The Google is a wonderful invention.
danny,
I hesitate to comment on the MU ordinance until I see in writing what the council passed last night. But based on the news report and the earlier drafts that I've seen, I suspect you're right that at this point it does nothing to further the Peterson project.
There are other problems, however. The language of the ordinance is (or at least was) a horrible mess that almost nobody will be able to understand. That's bad for land owners and it's also bad for the city staff, planning commission, and council who will have to live with the ordinance. The ordinance requires a development agreement (a burdensome legislative process) for each separate development. That's good if the council wants to micro-manage every project, but in practice it's mostly just lots of red tape for everyone involved. Only the large developers, with deep pockets and plenty of patience, will be able to wade through this bureaucratic quagmire.
The other troubling aspect, as you say, is the relationship between the council and the administration. As I've said before, I think the most fundamental problem is that the council doesn't have the resources to act independently of the administration in more than a few occasional matters. In this case, the administration handed the council a horribly complex, obfuscated ordinance and told them it had to be passed within a few weeks. Ideally, the council would have directed its staff to draft some alternative versions of the ordinance so it could have chosen among these alternatives, rather than having to simply vote yes or no, or try to make amendments during the meeting. But I suspect that the staff are already over-worked and that they wouldn't have had time to do that in this case.
10-3-1306. Interest in business entity regulated by municipality -- Disclosure statement required.
(1) Every appointed or elected officer or municipal employee who is an officer, director, agent, or employee or the owner of a substantial interest in any business entity which is subject to the regulation of the municipality in which he is an elected or appointed officer or municipal employee shall disclose the position held and the nature and value of his interest upon first becoming appointed, elected, or employed by the municipality, and again at any time thereafter if the elected or appointed officer's or municipal employee's position in the business entity has changed significantly or if the value of his interest in the entity has increased significantly since the last disclosure.
(2) The disclosure shall be made in a sworn statement filed with the mayor. The mayor shall report the substance of all such disclosure statements to the members of the governing body, or may provide to the members of the governing body copies of the disclosure statement within 30 days after the statement is received by him.
Mayor Godfrey, known slum lord in Ogden, HAS NEVER FILED these state mandated conflict of interest forms. Neither has any of his circle of empty suits.
They openly defy this part of state law just like they do any others that they don't feel like being bothered with.
now for the rest of the story:
10-3-1311. Complaints charging violations -- Procedure.
(1) Any complaint against a person who is under the merit system, charging that person with a violation of this part, shall be filed and processed in accordance with the provisions of the merit system.
(2) If the person charged with the violation is not under any merit system, then the complaint shall be filed with the mayor or city manager. The mayor or city manager shall investigate the complaint and shall give the person an opportunity to be heard. A written report of the findings and the recommendation of the mayor or city manager shall be filed with the governing body. If the governing body finds that the person has violated this part, it may dismiss, suspend, or take such other appropriate action with respect to the person.
Question:
So what if the person that is being investigated is the mayor? Then What?
This is an open letter to the City Council for their most recent action on Tuesday night.
Shame on you.
How can you think that you’re doing your job when you passed a Mixed Use ordinance that effectively circumvents the “Involve Ogden General Plan”? Your action on Tuesday night disenfranchised the resident from the process of deciding what THEY want in their community and instead lets developers have the first say as to what goes on in this city.
Shame on you.
You again put another impediment in the way of the Michael Moyal efforts to improve Ogden and earn a return on his investment in this community. You have also placed him and his partner at the mercy of our mayor, a mayor determined to take their property as it does not fit into his grand scheme and as such they must go. How does it feel to throw other peoples money, efforts and dreams away?
Shame on you.
If your going to rely on others to spoon feed you the information that they think you need to know in order for you to cast your vote on issues, you don’t belong in your current position.
If you’re not going to educate yourself in enough detail on the issues before you, and allot enough of your time to let that information that you’ve gathered soak in to the point that you can spar with the best of them on that issue, then you shouldn’t be in your current position.
This isn’t a popularity contest; you don’t need to vote the same as the council member just before you did in the vote process. If you think the battles lost, that shouldn’t stop you from at least demonstrating that you have character. If you don’t have the strength of your convictions to fight for what you know is right, then you shouldn’t be in the position that you currently hold.
You all knew what the right thing was to do and you didn’t do it. This makes you equally responsible to the things that are wrong in this city. Step up or step out and let someone else that really wants to help Ogden step in.
Residents voted you into office, not developers. You really let the residents of Ogden down.
To say that I’m disappointed in all of you, would be an understatement.
Shame on you.
Thank you, Monotreme.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Moyal and Singh now...Godfrey wants them O U T...will the Council's actions last night help Godfrey's nefarious schemes?
There were a lot of people ready to open their wallets for Matt Jones' defense...wonder if Moyal and Singh will need help to have their day in court also?
MORE THAN...
I share your disappointment.
Am I missing something here? If this MU ordinance is passed to cover the whole city like the mayor and his two sycophants on the council want, does that mean that only developers that can afford to go through the development agreement process build anything they want in any neighborhood?
Could they build a gas station on 25th and Pierce for instance?
Could they build a WalMart next to Mt. Ogden Park?
Would this in fact put all the power for all future develpment in the hands of the likes of Ellison and other rapacious lawyers and developers?
I say if it is too convoluted and complicated for the council to understand, and if the average tax paying citizen of Ogden can't make heads or tails of it, then it certainly should not be made law.
Overly complex laws only benefit one class of people - the rich rapists and their compliant political insider pals.
More than disappointed:
You wrote: Your action on Tuesday night disenfranchised the resident from the process of deciding what THEY want in their community and instead lets developers have the first say as to what goes on in this city.
Not quite sure what you meant by the above, since the public does not, as a rule, get a vote on development projects in Ogden. Proposals are reviewed by the planning commission, and, if recommended, forwarded to the Council for review. So I'm not quite sure how whatever the council passed last night [and I'll reserve judgement until I see what the resolution actually said] "disenfranchised" residents on zoning matters. Residents did not decide such matters by vote to begin with, so not sure how they were "disenfranchised" last night. If they were.
Just what the hell is this ice tower thing? It sounds like some junk that has been laying around in a parking lot for 10 years and now the Mayor wants to squander $400,000 of tax payer money on resurecting it in the middle of town?
Does any one have pictures of it that they could post or link to? Does any one know what it is and how it would benefit Ogden or justify nearly a half million bucks of puplic dough?
And why are we chasing some amusment ride left over junk from something called the X games that happened in the mid 90's? What the hell were the "X" games anyway?
Is this another one of these "first in the whole world" pipe dreams coming out of the Godfreyite movement?
Are we striving to have the first city mall in the world anchored by a ten year old left over piece of junk?
Jeeze, no wonder my property tax went up a hundred and forty percent in the last couple of years.
ozboy (in reply to your 11:11 post):
No, it's not that bad. Originally, the MU ordinance was to be applied only at the request of the landowner/developer. So there would be nothing to prevent developing a piece of property under the existing zoning, according to current procedures. The new ordinance would have simply given developers another, very open-ended option.
However, the version that the Planning Commission finally approved is much more complex. It seems to allow the Council to zone an area MU without the consent of the landowner. That seems to be the intent in redevelopment districts like the River Project, at least. Within such areas, every landowner would presumably have to do a development agreement.
That version of the ordinance also stated explicitly that the MU zone could be used in three types of locations: downtown, any redevelopment district, and elsewhere in the city under certain conditions. My understanding is that the Council passed a version that eliminated the third option. But as far as I can tell from the news report, the Council has not yet actually applied the MU zone to any piece of land, not even the River Project.
I hasten to add that I could be wrong about a lot of this, both because the wording of the ordinance is so obfuscated and because I don't know what changes the Council made before passing the ordinance.
oz:
I think the SE ran a pic of the tower earlier this week maybe, when it did a story on it, and how it related to the Climbing Park in Waterfall Canyon. And something about a disagreement about where it should be erected. I gather it is the outdoor winter equivalent of the kind of climbing walls outdoors shops and some exercise clubs now have indoors. That it freezes a column wall of ice hard, thick and wide enough to permit ice-climbing five months or so of the year. Or so, as I recall, the SE said.
Since in my opinion, ice has only one clear god-intended purpose --- to cool down some good bourbon or a Polygamy Porter or two of a steamy summer afternoon after work --- I didn't follow the SE story that closely.
ozboy: There seems to be a photo of the ice tower here.
Anyone know why the ice tower is called the holographic ice tower?
curm:
I've been wondering the same thing. If I get a chance, I'll ask Jeff.
It's called the Holographic Ice Tower because it resembles Princess Leia's dress in the hologram from Star Wars. Silly? Yes. But true just the same.
Ozboy,
The ice tower is being funded mostly by donations and grants. It's not the mayor's project. Your precious tax $ is safe to be used for more important things like buying hummers for city employees, buying rope for beer gardens, buying 4x4's so Matt and Chris can do spin outs all over the golf course (I didn't make that up) and such and such.
Until you've had a face to face discussion with Jeff Lowe, quit trying to discredit his and other private citizens' generous efforts to bring the ONLY ice climbing structure in the world to Ogden. Not EVERY SINGLE thing the mayor is involved with is bad.
(Yes Dubya, the Google is a great invention, as is the primer.)
Safsten Not Running For Re Election
SE reports this morning that Councilman Safsten will not seek re-election this Fall. Family health considerations, said Safsten, were a major element of his decision.
The Damned:
Thanks for the low down on why holographic ice tower. I kind of like the reason. Hell, why not?
And for "not every single thing the mayor is involved with is bad." Yup.
And for: "Your precious tax $ is safe to be used for more important things like buying hummers for city employees, buying rope for beer gardens, buying 4x4's so Matt and Chris can do spin outs all over the golf course (I didn't make that up) and such and such." Wish I'd written that. Still chuckling....
Why not put the tower at Mt Ogden Park. It's considerably colder up there than either the river or downtown. Maybe the Mayor prefers to divert attention from the park and it's contribution to our quality of life. He'd rather have newcomers focus on downtown and the river walk so he can liquidate the parklands in favor of yet another novelty ride. How many ice climbers are there anyway? Looks fun, but let's get real.
Cedar:
How many ice climbers are there? More, I think, than you suspect, and ice climbing has turned into an attractive seasonal niche market for locations popular with ice climbers. Developing a Climbing Park in Waterfall Canyon has always struck me as one of Mr. Peterson's more viable ideas, and one that might have legs, with good results for Ogden city. How the tower does or does not figure into the climbing park idea, I'm not sure.
Well damnit damned,
The only thing I know about this dumb assed idea of princess lea's dress/ice tower is what I read in the paper.
In the paper is says that $200,000 of tax payer money has already been allocated to this thing, and that another $200,000 in "Grant" money is being sought. In case you didn't know, "Grant" money is just another word that disingenuous politicians like PeeWee use for tax payer's money.
So where does the private money you refer to come in? And how many hard pressed residents of Ogden will benifit from this boondoggle?
And if a like number of my beer drinking buddies, all property owners and tax payers in Ogden, want a giant climbing statue of a jack ass, modeled after me, erected in down town should the tax payers of Ogden be forced to foot the bill?
By the way, I loved your picture of me, and the mayor, that you linked.
Where did you get it? I was a lot younger and better looking when it was taken. My fear however is that if the pic gets circulated too widely that PeeWee will want me to join his inner circle of big and deep thinkers.
Safsten aint runnin cause he don't want to be humiliated at the polls. The thick headed baffoon has finally realized that the people in his district have his number (in my humble opinion of course)
And Curmudgeon, am I to believe that you are offering your tacit support for using tax payer money for this princess leia dress/ice tower scheme when you throw rose pedals at what you consider one of Peterson's better ideas? I mean don't get me wrong here pal, I wouldn't mind climbing up Princess Leia's dress myself, but I wouldn't be so cheeky as to expect the tax payers to foot the bill.
And Damned, what does meeting this Lowe dude have to do with anything? So he is a nice guy, so what? Does that mean that it is OK to spend public money to support an idea that will appeal to an extremely narrow slice of the public? Does that mean that every nice guy around deserve to have his pet project funded by the public?
Hey, there are at least three people in Ogden that thinks I'm a nice guy, does that mean the citizens of Ogden should fork over a half a million to build a giant jack ass statue (modeled after me I put forth with the upmost modesty) so me and my drinking buddies can climb all over it?
And what's the deal with this "bring the ONLY ice climbing structure in the world to Ogden" crap? Sounds an awfull like PeeWee's logic for every cockamamie scheme he comes up with!
"Ogden cannot afford politicians who have nothing to offer but small thinking or who would stomp on the brakes of our current rejuvenation."
--Rick Safsten, local oaf
Yeah, we need big thinkers who endorse the idea of circus rides strewn across urban thoroughfares. Good luck, and thanks for your eight years of Little Matty Gondola Godfrey sycophancy, err, I mean public service.
Shame on Jason and Hee Haw!
Most of us have thrown darts at Safsten when his voting has been especially egregious.
However, his reason for not running for a third term is because his wife, Christine, has multiple sclerosis. Rick says it's taken a bad turn.
Where are your sympathies? We can knock on the politician...but isn't it an awful indictment of us when we kick him at this low point in his family's life?
He isn't out of the race becasue he 'doesn't want to be humiliated'....
He's devoting his time to his wife and family.
Serving on the Council takes up a LOT of time! Time that he and his wife and family need to spend together.
My smypathies and good wishes and prayers go to Rick, Christine and family.
I also extend my gratitude for his service for so many years. Whether or not I've agreed or disagreed with him, I still appreciate the fact that he's stepped into the fray and taken the heat!
Sharon:
In re: your comments on Mr. Safsten's decision not to run. Exactly right, start to finish.
Oz:
You ask: And if a like number of my beer drinking buddies, all property owners and tax payers in Ogden, want a giant climbing statue of a jack ass, modeled after me, erected in down town should the tax payers of Ogden be forced to foot the bill?
Well, I can't speak for others of course, but I'd happily pay over a shekel or two extra in taxes for that.... [grin]
Hee Haw [aka Oz]
You asked: And Curmudgeon, am I to believe that you are offering your tacit support for using tax payer money for this princess leia dress/ice tower scheme when you throw rose pedals at what you consider one of Peterson's better ideas?
I haven't taken any stand on the ice tower. I don't know that much about it, or its potential as a draw for outdoor touristas, where even it's located, or whether it would be a prudent investment for Ogden City to make [or, it seems, to have made]. I do note that the price seems to be growing alarmingly over initial projections, a depressingly common feature of Hizzonah's various Grand Visions.
I do think Peterson's climbing park idea might be a good one. He's got the via ferrata up [though I gather not even now open for business] and this winter I think diverted some Waterfall Creek water over cliffs in the canyon to create an ice-climbing venue. All of it on his land, financed with his investment capital. If it all works out as he hopes, Ogden may gain from it along with Mr. Peterson. If it does not, if his business plan fails, it's his investment that goes south.
Myself, I hope it works. I know real climbers tend to sneer in derision at the via ferrata routes, but seems to me they might well be attractive to people who are not rock climbers, who aren't going to invest the time, and substantial money necessary, to take up the sport, but who might never the less enjoy getting safely out on a rock face high above the canyon floor some pleasant spring afternoon. People like, for example, me. I wouldn't mind at all going up one of the VF routes for fun. [I'll leave the winter side of the business, the ice climbing venue, to the pros.]
If he ever opens the place for business [it's been a while since the NYT good ink piece], I suspect he'll get some action.
Hey, deal me in on the statue (and one more for the road, too ...).
Curm:
As you say, Waterfall Canyon is private property and Chris Peterson is free to build ladder routes there if he wants. But my personal opinion is that the community will be better served if this property is eventually acquired by the Forest Service and managed as Wilderness. I hate to see areas of great natural beauty commercialized as Peterson is trying to do. We've already commercialized enough of our mountains. It isn't clear to me that a commercialized Waterfall Canyon will draw any more visitors than the canyon does already. Thousands of people hike up there every year.
OK Maroni, you're on.
We'll climb up that ass and crack one open. Whiskey is on me. Will Jack Daniels do, or do you prefer Johnny Walker? Don't make any difference to me, hell the tax payers are going to foot the bill anyway.
If we can get Godfrey to put our big ass in front of his big ego monument we can sit up there, get totally wasted and watch all the pretty people go in and bowl!
Dan S:
Two different issues, seems to me. Given my druthers, I too would rather Mr. Peterson had done what he originally intended to do with the Malan's Basin/Waterfall Canyon properties: trade them to the FS for land he wanted to develop in AZ, I think? No argument that would have served the public interest of N. Utah.
But he didn't. And it's his land. And among the things he might do by way of development, the climbing park ideas seem [relatively] unobtrusive. I've been up to the waterfalls too, Dan, and no, I don't want a paved path up, and a refreshments stand and souvenir shop at the end of it either. But the climbing park idea does provide new opportunities for mountain recreation not now available [e.g. via ferrata in summer and diverted water ice wall in winter] close in that are relatively unobtrusive.
Want to start a drive to get the FS to make an offer on the land Mr. P. can't refuse? Sign me up. But so long as it remains his land, he has a right to develop it, and I'd prefer that he do that in relatively un-obtrusive ways. Like the climbing park idea.
Sharon Sharon Sharon
You are reminding me of an old Nun School Teacher I knew who spent most of her time trying to shame us incorredgable Mormon boys!
So if Eva Braun came down with a bad case of the feel bads would you forgive her main Squeeze Adolph for his transgression against the world?
If PeeWee's wife should break a leg would that all of a sudden make him a good guy?
Safsten is, and has been, bad news for a long time now.
He is the one that led the way in "tweaking" Ogden's ordinance that retroactively made the Godfrey/Reid theft of $45,000 dollars from Ogden's much abused public treasury A-OK.
He is the one who led the way with the old lame duck council that put all of us on the financial hook big time for PeeWee's playhouse.
He is the one who led the way to deny the hard working immigrant families of their beer licenses and lively hood.
He is the one that led the way in screwing over the poor and helpless among us that are forced to live month to month in motels.
He is the one who led the way in trying to steal the folk's land to give to WalMart.
He is the one who for years now has sat up on his high and mighty dias and sneered at the citizens who came before him on various issues.
Now because his wife has some unfortunate illness he is a good guy?
I think you need to smoke a joint and come back to your senses!
Hey I feel bad for him, his wife and family also, but that don't change his true colors. He still is what he is, and in my opinion that has been extremely bad news for the citizens of Ogden.
Curm, you've expressed Mr Peterson has a right to develope his land. True to some degree. But I must point out that though he's not in the city, there are county codes and ordinances that apply. So far I believe everything he's done so far has involved skirting and outright violations. Taylors canyon is closed to all vehicular traffic, yet he used 4-wheelers to pack his equipment up there for the clear-cutting episode. He never was properly permitted during the construction of said via ferrata and may still not be. He illegally used 4-wheelers to take first-aid supplies to the via ferrata. His redirection of the water for his ice climb,(primitive as it was) was never permitted and might also have fractured a law or two. To get permitted he has many hurdles that obviously he conciders too onerous at the present time, and may not be possible at all, much like his Malan's Basin Dollhouse replica.
Curm:
I note your judicious change of tense. In your 11:46 post the climbing park was something that might happen in the future; in your 12:14 post it's something that has already happened in the past. Yeah, he's already bolted a bunch of ladder rungs to the rock, but this doesn't mean that the commercialization of Waterfall Canyon is already complete, or even that it will proceed to the next step. I think there's a very high probability that after the resort and landgrab plans fall through, Peterson will cut his losses and sell the property either to the Forest Service or to a land trust that would probably pass it on to the Forest Service. At least, this is still what I'm hoping for.
Geez, sounds like Curm and I are sharing the same corner for being so dumb and naughty!
You look cute in a dunce cap, Curm. I don't want one...musses my hair, ya know.
Ozzie, Ozzie, Ozzie, that "old" Nun bit stung.
Hey....I attended Catholic School in the first grade, cuz I was too little to cross the street by myself and go to public school, and I gotta tell you....that nun was tuff!
Thank goodness she liked me or I would be dead!
She could push a kid to the floor for any infraction, and swat with a ruler about as good as Babe Ruth!
I'm happy to say that I was her pet, and it spared me from injury and perhaps even spared my life
But seriously folks, that's a baaaad list of Rick's gifts to Ogden,
But, I still say the man served in many capacities, and tho we are living with and paying for many of his gaffes, he stepped in when others did not step UP.
And, he is right to be home with his wife now.
I'll pass on the joint. Asthma, you know...but I'll raise a glass of diet coke (or pepsi) to the ever erudite Ozboy!
Sharon
Smoke two joints and call me in the morning.
We'll compare Nun stories. Hell, if you get stoned enough I'll even tell you why they call then Nuns!
Dan:
Well, my understand is both tenses apply. The VF routes are in, but they are not yet open to the public for a fee; the winter ice wall went in on I gather some kind of trail basis last winter. So both are there, but not open for business yet.
On his giving up and selling [or trading] to the FS: from you keyboard to God's ear....
Bill C:
Developing any business must be in acord with existing city and/or County zoning and regs, and any environmental regs. that might apply as well. My understanding is there's been some delay getting a conditonal use permit from the county for the climbing park, or elements of it. As for Taylor's Canyon, the no-motorized vehicle rule is a FS rule. FS has lots and lots of rules. Good luck getting them to enforce them all, particularly those involving motorized use of the forest trails.
Hee Hoz,
LOL. I think you're a fine piece of ass at any age!
Anyway, I'm not suggesting you get all Brokeback with Jeff. I'm just saying talk to the guy, ask him the tough questions (sorry, I'm presuming you haven't).
Chris and Mary Ford fronted the $ to get this ice thing going, many other private citizens are giving; and hopefully this weekend's event will bring lotsa $ to Lowe and Co. If he shows that he has public backing, he'll be more likely to win grants (from private foundations & government).
I suppose it just boils down to if you like the idea or not. My main point is that not everything your Bird is the
Word mayor is involved with is bad news - just a lot of it. (Rudi, take a couple deep breaths, it'll calm you :-)
Damned...your link sounds intriguing. Didn't work for me though.
Damned, damned if I didn't like the Bird is the Word song! You definately add a new and fun twist to this stuffy assed blog! No offense, but Rudi is a lawyer, Republican and a MoMo you know.
Actually I don't give a squat one way or the other about Leia's skirt, although I would like a peak up under it sometime. My problem is the public money angle. If it's OK to spend our collective dough on this ice skirt, then I want the public to also pay for a piece of my ass. Maybe I can get this Ford Dude to chip in for the rest?
Is this the same Ford guy that grew up on 34th and Tyler next to the Goddards? If so, I remember him, I lived right around the corner in those days. Shit-O-Dear, they seemed to be pretty bucks up, why don't he pay for the whole damn thing?
I don't know this Lowe fellow, but any Ogden boy that goes out in the world and kicks ass has my admiration. I've bragged about Ogden through twenty states and three continents in my time. Jest can't hep myself when it comes to the land of Oz.
hee hoz
you need your mouth washed out with a bar of Lava soap!
Rudi could and should take you to the woodshed.
Whaaaat?
I didn't say anything? Now if Rudy wants to wash my fingers that's another story!
I take it you are predjudiced against the city paying for a piece of my ass? Well I think if the city wants to pay for Lowe's Leia ice skirt climbing deal, they should also pay for my donkey drinkin buddy statue. After all, fair is fair here in Emerald City.
All us Ozmoites are created equal, except some tiny ones are more equal of course.
and some mouths are dirtier than Godfrey's administration.
So what is this ... a CleanFlix outlet?
Post a Comment