By Curmudgeon
Just a quick heads up on several Standard-Examiner items this morning before I'm off to grade papers [crushing youthful hopes and dreams... God, I love teaching!]
First, an editorial on the "election follies" in Weber County makes a couple of good points. Notably that Weber County election officials' claims that the problem is that the state does not keep voting rolls current loses a lot of its credibility when we note that other counties didn't seem to have the same problem... large numbers of voters whose names could not be found on the county's election rolls... that Weber County did. The editorial ends this way:
Weber simply dropped the ball. County Clerk/Auditor Alan McEwan needs to own up to his office's shortcomings and do some house-cleaning. After that, job No. 1 will be to make sure his staff's training regimen is improved before voters next visit to their polling places for the Feb. 5 presidential primary. If this nonsense happens again, the heads should keep rolling until the job's done right.Fine conclusion, but I can't shake the sneaking suspicion that what really has the Std-Ex ticked off is the County Clerk's decision to stonewall the press [and the ACLU], backed by County Commissioner Jan Zogmeister, on the grounds that the Clerk is just too busy preparing for an election months away to talk to anybody about the last election. But hey, if the Std-Ex has a hidden agenda in its criticism of county officials, that matters less than that it reached, for whatever reason, the right conclusion. Good editorial.
Second, two good letters to the editor today. One by Chris Hansen makes this excellent point:
Ardent supporters of the Ogden mayor have been arguing over the past several years that opposition to many of his proposals has been by a very few, select naysayers. I hope the election put that notion to rest for good. Nearly half of Ogden voted against the mayor, despite 1) the mayor's enormous financial advantage over his opponent Susan Van Hooser; 2) the newspaper's glowing recommendation of him; 3) his supporters' use of questionable tactics; and 4) the fact that he's an incumbent.The second letter, by Lynette Belka, makes some very good points too, among which is this one:
Because the Standard-Examiner has a very big voice in local politics, we hope in the next four years it will decide to better serve Ogden city by more thoroughly questioning, in my opinion, the mayor's projects and press releases.Amen to that.
34 comments:
Also, very good article in the SL Trib on the funding woes of the Ogden Fire Department, now hoping for federal grants to pay for what, it seems to me, should be funded as a matter of course by the City. Link
here.
I'll be the first to say that the County clerk does not know what the hell he is doing.
First he needs to have some one to clean up the voting records. Next he needs to Support the Election day voting registration bill that Hansen sponsored last year, I sure he will sponsor it again this year. Next he should get rid of Gloria, after all wasn't she fired by Ogden city for not having her work done. and finally he needs to be honest with the public, you can have all the qualification in the world but if your not honest, it doesn't mean a thing.
Oh and by the way the clerk really should read the election laws and the constitution so he will know how to run his office.
Your blogmeister believes it's probably a little early in the game to start criticizing Alan McEwan and the Weber County elections department for the "problems" with the Weber County voter rolls.
First, Mr. McEwan is serving his first term as County Clerk as of January 2007; and he has "inherited" some major problems from Linda Lunceford, his predecessor in that office. Your blogmeister can report from first-hand knowledge that Ms. Lunceford developed a policy of "purging" voters from precinct poll books, when such voters had failed to vote in the prior two general elections. This is just speculation on my part, but I don't believe it would be unreasonable to infer that many of the problems in this last election, with an influx of "voucher issue" motivated voters, resulted from Ms. Lunceford's earlier policies.
Secondly, I think it's quite reasonable for county officials to publicly "clam up," at least in the short run, now that ACLU lawyers are looking into the election, and potential litigation may be pending. It would be unwise and foolhardy for Weber County election officials to speak to the press, until such time as they have themselves been able to determine exactly what went wrong in election 2007.
Rudi:
You wrote: I think it's quite reasonable for county officials to publicly "clam up," at least in the short run, now that ACLU lawyers are looking into the election, and potential litigation may be pending. It would be unwise and foolhardy for Weber County election officials to speak to the press, until such time as they have themselves been able to determine exactly what went wrong in election 2007.
The "clam up" strategy makes some sense once a case has been filed. It makes little sense when communication with the ACLU [and the press] stands a good chance of preventing a case being filed, provided there was in fact no skullduggery or incompetence on the part of the County or its agents. Inherited problems may well be the explanation for WC's apparently flawed voter rolls. But I note that "I want to take the time to make sure I understand what happened and why, then I will be happy to talk to the press and public" was not the line taken by Mr. McEwan and Ms. Zogmeister when explaining his sudden canceling of a meeting with the ACLU and his refusing to talk to the press at all. The excuse given instead was that the County Clerk was much too busy preparing for an election two and a half months off to find time to talk to anyone, press, public, or ACLU about what happened in the last one.
Sorry, Rudi, but he can't have it both ways. It's either "I'm looking into it and will be happy to talk to the press and interested parties when I have it sorted out" or "I'm much too busy to talk to anybody about this; stop pestering me." It can't be both. And the Clerk and Zogmeister are on record supporting the second option, not the first.
If we insist, as we regularly do, on full and timely disclosure by the Mayor's office, seems we must insist on the same from the County government. Even if it is run by an all-Republican Commission. Open government is not a principle to be applied only when it's convenient for those in office, elected or appointed.
I find the clerk's excuse of being too busy, quite a sad and ridiculous. Some future stupid primary, the out come almost 100% predictable, is not a valid reason for exploring and fixing what has happened in a real, high stakes election. The proccess should be flawless. Who care's what Utah's ego-centric republican legislature desire's as a moment in the national limelight? This clerk and Couty have a local responsibilty, I'm sure that voting 80% for the most well monied Mormon is a high priority to many in Utah, but election integrety should trump ego-centricity every time.
"I think it's quite reasonable for county officials to publicly "clam up," at least in the short run..."
That's the advice that even a rookie lawyer would provide to his client the minute adversarial lawyers start prowling around; and I'll bet ya's a burger at Big Jim's that Weber County officials are acting at least partly upon the advice of their own in-house legal counsel.
A little birdy told me that Weber County officials will be ready with a public statement BTW, as soon as the facts have been sorted out.
rudi:
Well, the little birdy should be the County clerk, or the County Commissioners, and they shouldn't be whispering only to you, but to the SE and the general public. In fact, they shouldn't be whispering at all.
We might also wonder how the County clerk, who Ms. Zogmeister recently told the SE was way too busy to spend any time on this matter, has apparently found the time to do some digging and to compose a press release. Imagine that....
And tell that rookie lawyer who you seem to think is advising the County clerk that if there is a way to head off a law suit by communicating with potential complainants and he or she routinely advises clients to clam up instead, he --- or she --- had better keep their resume' updated.
Patience, gentle Curmudgeon, lest our gentle readers should be forced to conclude that our resident "yellow dog democRAT" tastes GOP blood in the water.
It's Weber County government we're talking about here, NOT Boss Godfrey's government.
Unlike the latter, your blogmeister believes the former still deserve the benefit of the doubt.
And I'm sure even you would be forced to admit in a more candid moment, that things get complicated when adversarial lawyers are sniffing about.
Curmudgeon
Unfortunately you are way over your head in trying to figure out this Weber County election deal.
My advice to you is just relax and quit trying to make sense of the non-sense. It's a Republican thing, you will never get it with all this silly Democratic party idealism about fairness, integrity and open government.
Get ye to the local waaaard on Sunday Mr. Infidel where they will teach you to go along to get along.
Rudi:
You wrote And I'm sure even you would be forced to admit in a more candid moment, that things get complicated when adversarial lawyers are sniffing about.
Well, product liability and personal injury lawyers, maybe. But ACLU lawyers looking into allegations concerning an election... no. The ACLU has a pretty good record of winning cases, which means it is as a rule very [here's a word you will like] conservative about going to court. It's a last resort, not a first option. What it's trying to do locally is determine if [please note, if] significant denial of voters' rights happened. And whether, if such occurred, a suit would be an effective way to deal with the problems uncovered and whether such a suit would likely succeed. The answer to both those questions could be either "no" or "yes." Under such circumstances, candor from the County could go a long way to ultimately preventing a lawsuit. Seems to me the County is needlessly making things more difficult than they need to be.
Unless of course the County officials feel the need to cover their actions up, and keep them well hidden from scrutiny.
[Full disclosure: I am a card-carrying dues-paying ACLU member.]
"Well, product liability and personal injury lawyers, maybe. But ACLU lawyers looking into allegations concerning an election... no. "
As much as your blogmeister hates to be disagreeble, gentle Curm, he would challenge you to find a citation in law to support your above assertion.
"What it's trying to do locally is determine if [please note, if] significant denial of voters' rights happened. And whether, if such occurred, a suit would be an effective way to deal with the problems uncovered and whether such a suit would likely succeed."
Yes indeed. And the truth will no doubt be revealed in due time, for better or worse. And all the ballots will be preserved. And all records will remain intact... if "push" ever has to meet up with "shove."
At risk of seeming "snarky," BTW, it seems your recent rants go against your normal grain, which relentlessly (on this blog) takes this seeming tack:
"Ascertain the facts first; then act."
Patience gentle Curmudgeon. Weber County officials are obviously still in the process of finding out "Wha' happened." Until this has been accomplished, we should all take a breather.
Unfortunately in our 21st century society, we have become accustomed to "instant gratification." In our 2007 information age, we unrealistically expect "the truth" to be revealed in the hour between the opening credits, the intevening commercials and the denouement .
And of course we need to factor in this forum's usual reaction to Boss Godfrey, who lies whenever his lips are moving. With this in mind, however I believe it's unfair to brand Weber County officials with the same lack of credibility that the other local government (Ogden City) has earned under Boss Godfrey's constant mandacity.
Patience, gentle Curmudgeon.
The truth will be revealed in short order, we believe.
What comes across loud and clear from the SE editorial statement about the Weber County Clerk's need to clean house is the first salvo by the Standard-Examiner on behalf of Mayor Godfrey's intention to rid the County Clerk's Elections department of former Ogden City Recorder Gloria Berrett.
The Standard's editorial board never wavers in their dedicated support of whatever the self-anointed Godfrey would like to happen.
It would be most refreshing but it would also take a miracle for the SE to actually tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth, about Mayor Godfrey's demeaning conduct just once.
The $64 dollar question is - will the current Weber County Clerk stand by Gloria Berrett and her department or will Godfrey call that play like he tries do in every other area of local government?
Stay tuned for the maneuvering.
Somebody wrote that there is something amiss with Weber Cnty Voting clerks, etc, etc.
Somebody wrote that somebody dropped the ball.
I live in Weber County. Just recently moved. Registered to vote at new address with LESS than 30 days till election day & received our voter cards in the mail in time to vote. Our names were on the "you get to vote" list, not the challenged.
Methinks someone was on the ball, and someone else wants to make it look like someone dropped the ball. Can you spell M-G, et al?
It's too bad the Standard apparently doesn't care that the closest engine to them is broken down about as often as it is working.
TLJ:
That is good work. On the other hand, I know of a couple that moved in months ago, went down to the County office to register together. One was on the voter rolls on election day. The other was not. If there is a problem keeping the voter rolls current, what happened in any one instance is not evidence in and of itself of either efficiency or incompetence. [No organization, public or private, runs at 100% efficiency, ever.] This is one instance where statistics matter in order to determine the scope of the problem --- if there is one.
What I find most damning in all this so far [besides the 1500 or so voters who discovered their names were not on the election rolls] is the claim by the County that it is the state's job to purge and update the voter rolls, and the state's claim that those are County responsibilities. Given those two statements, seems evident that somebody screwed up. I can't say whether at the state or county level, but both those statements cannot be right. One of them has to be wrong. And as the SE pointed out, since other counties seem not to have had the provisional ballot numbers or problems that Weber County did, what we know so far suggests the problems are County problems at least in some degree. We shall see.
Rudi:
You wrote: At risk of seeming "snarky," BTW, it seems your recent rants go against your normal grain, which relentlessly (on this blog) takes this seeming tack: "Ascertain the facts first; then act."
Patience gentle Curmudgeon. Weber County officials are obviously still in the process of finding out "Wha' happened." Until this has been accomplished, we should all take a breather.
1.Ahem. I never rant. I maintain, like Teddy Roosevelt, a philosophical equanimity at all times.
2. Ascertaining the facts first is what the press and ACLU seemed to be trying to do, until the County Clerk, backed up by Commissioner Zogmeister, shut down their inquiries and all press access.
3. You say WC officials are "obviously" in the process of finding out what happened. Obviously? I remind you again, ever so gently, of Ms. Zogmeister's defense of the WC clerk's refusing to talk to the press or the ACLU: it had nothing to do with "obviously being in the process" of finding out what happened. It was a claim that the Clerk was so busy preparing for an election two and a half months off that he had no time to talk to anybody about the past election. From which you suggest we conclude what? That the County Clerk was "obviously" working on learning what happened but didn't bother to let Ms. Zogmeister and the other Commissioners know? Uh huh... and the Great Pumpkin every Halloween visits the most sincere pumpkin patch. And I might add that we now three weeks beyond the election. That the Clerk's office still seems not to know "what happened" and is still trying to figure it out suggests something less than an efficient operation.
But we'll have to wait, I guess for the press release from that Little Bird that seems to chirp only to you.
Curm - I would love to have a look at the statistics! Where can I obtain them?
TLJ
In this discussison please do not forget the Lt. Governor's position in this election mess.
By law, he is over all elections in Utah.
However, he is distancing himself so fast from the Ogden problems on Election Day 2007 that he would not even listen to a written complaint from a disenfranchised voter.
He wrote in a response to a complaint to "take it to the Weber County Attorney".
Now that is the biggest joke of all.
TLJ:
That's what we're waiting to hear from the little bird that talks to Rudi [our very own Dr. Doolittle it seems]. That's what the press and, to some extent, the ACLU was trying to determine [among other things] when the Clerk, with County Commissioner Zogmeister occurring, shut off all contact with the press and public. Why, but for the reported assurances of Rudi's little bird, a suspicious person might think they were trying to cover something up....
Beejeebus, Curm. Try cutting these conscientious and yet to be proven dishonest Weber County officials half the amount of slack that you cut the Godfrey House Propaganda Organ on a semi-daily basis.
We're hearing some things from you today that are, shall we say, inharmonious with your normal open-minded and even handed philosophy.
Bad day at the office, perhaps?
Sheesh.
Rudi,
You said that this was the clerks first term in office,true but, I thought he was the most qualified because he was the chief deputy of the office and has worked there for some time so give me a break and the public a break. If he didn't know the job then he should have not run for it and since he did win I would expect no the less from him and expect him to know just what is to be done by the law.
Rudi,
I find it very interesting that Curm would so furiously attack the people within Weber County for what happened during the election when he was always calling off such attacks on the mayor and his beloved Standard Examiner.
Have we had a wolf in sheep’s clothing all this time, are we applying a double standard here (guilty before proven innocent) or is their a personal vendetta going on here?
Let's let all the facts come out before we jump to conclusions.
To Ogden Residents,
I was a witness for one of the candidates during the vote counting on election night. That night I personally witnessed a very dedicated, professional and unbiased group of people that all worked very hard and very well together while trying to do the best job for the voting public. They were all determined to make this election as accurate and as fair as possible. Everything was organized for efficiency, everyone knew their role and with the exception of a computer glitch (which by the way, they had an immediate back up plan for in the event that such a situation did develop), everything worked perfectly.
What they could not have anticipated was the large number of provisional ballots. I personally attribute that to a lot of people wanting to participate in the voting process that had not done so in the last several elections but felt strongly enough about issues or candidates in this election to come out to vote. If anything did go wrong on the County’s side, I feel that it most likely was due to a process that had been in place, had worked in the past (when a much smaller number of provisional ballots were involved) and that now needs to be addressed.
Whether what happened was Weber County’s fault or not, I don’t know, but I can assure you from what I witnessed as to the character, and commitment of the people involved in the ballot counting process that night, I feel that if they did had any involvement in what went wrong, they will surely have it addressed and fixed before the next election. People and the newspaper need to stop trying to single out specific individuals involved in the process to hang them out to dry. I am confident that if the county had any involvement, it will be corrected by the county and the current team.
I personally was very impressed with what I saw that night.
Curious:
You wrote: I find it very interesting that Curm would so furiously attack the people within Weber County for what happened during the election when he was always calling off such attacks on the mayor and his beloved Standard Examiner.
Furiously attack? Who? I took to task the Weber County clerk for suddenly refusing to talk to the press, and for canceling a meeting with the ACLU. I've been criticizing the Godfrey administration for a long time now for excessive secrecy and its plain animus to open government. Seems pretty consistent to me, and in any case asking the questions I asked hardly constitutes "furiously attacking."
I also criticized County Commissioner Zogmeister for statements she made, on the record, justifying the Clerk's shutting out the press and public on grounds that he was way too busy preparing for an election two and a half months off. An explanation, I might at, wholly at odds with Rudi's explanation of the Clerk's refusing to talk with the press or public about the last election. Again, consistent I think with my criticisms of the Godfrey administration for excessive secrecy and an animus to open government.
And I raised the question that ought always to be raised when government officials --- national, state or local, Democratic or Republican, elected or appointed --- seek to shut out press and public inquiries into what they are doing and why. And that question is: are they hiding something, and if so, what is it they don't want us to know?
If you consider those questions "furiously attacking" County officials, seems to me you'd consider that virtually any question asked of them would constitute "furiously attacking."
If you want to hunt up inconsistencies, you might ask about those who went after the Godfrey administration --- properly --- for its penchant for secrecy and animus to open government but now suddenly seem to be a whole lot more tolerant of County officials' preference for secrecy and shielding from the press.
What's sauce for the goose, Curious, ought to be sauce for the gander.
One of You:
The question under discussion at the moment seems to me not to be the counting of the ballots [which is what you witnessed], but the apparent problem with keeping the voters rolls current, since it seems 1500 voters had to file provisional ballots because their names were not on the rolls, or so it has been reported.
You seem to be arguing that we should simply trust County officials to fix any problems that may or may not have occurred regarding keeping the voters rolls current. Sorry, but when the County election commissioner is insisting that's a state job, and the secretary of state is insisting that's a county job, then somebody has to be wrong about it. Who is right about that, who is wrong, and how the rolls got so out of date [if they are, and we don't know that yet, in part because the Clerk's office isn't talking] are all fair questions for the press and the public to be asking. "Trust them to find what is wrong, if anything is, and to fix it" just doesn't cut it as a sufficient answer.
I was skeptical that the ACLU look see would amount to anything. But the more County officials try to fend off the press, and their supporters offer "just trust them" as good public policy, the more I suspect a major CYA operation is under way. I could be wrong about that. But so long as the Clerk and County commission is stonewalling, we won't know, will we....?
There will be no facts. No charges. No checks and balances. Because Republicans control it all and it’s all done by Republicans.
Been away but heard on KSL this morning so I looked it up and this article says Bob Geiger was charged in your well documented and publicized run ins during the election.
In a a story story this morning in the SE on the City Council's "Water Horizons Plan" [to be made public this Thursday evening followed by a public input meeting in the Council chambers], Chairman of the City Council Jesse Garcia is quoted as saying this:
"It's very important to get the public's input so that they know what the council is facing in terms of improving the infrastructure and implementing new rates," he said.
With all due respect, Chairman Garcia, you have it wrong. The reason the Council seeks public input is not so the public can understand the problems the Council is facing. The purpose of getting public input is so the Council can learn what the public is thinking.
Curm, you know Rudi is a little touchy when it comes to Republicans. Plus, he thinks Zogmiester is quite a babe, cut him a little slack. It's good to see your fangs exposed, could have used a little more of that thru the election.
Since this thread seems to be focused on Weber County, here's something to concider.
Utah just may be the leader when it comes to dismissing facts, studies and logic with regards to Legislating and making decissions. We tend to follow more metaphysical intuitions and assertions of devine guidance. There appears to be some form of a mis-interpreted vision here in Weber County.
As we have all been told, devine inspiration is claimed to be behind lying little matty's vision, his father in law, Ed Allen actually pontificated as much in church services the Sunday before the election. As is usually the case here in Zion, many have know doubt as their assertions that the almighty has weighed in on transportation, thru his not quite humble servant, lying little matty gondola godfrey. Lying little matty insists that the almighty has made it clear that the solution to local transit issues is GONDOLAS.
Perhaps he is on to something. He just might have mis-interpreted the circumstance.
Powder Mountain, a real live ski resort, not some fictional entity like Malan's Basin, has some real developers with quite grandiose plans that will require the cooperation of both Cache and Weber Counties. One of the main issues is roads. The exsisting road is dangerous and not suitable if these plans come to fruition. Cache County residents want no road.
Lying little matty's vision could have been intended for this scenario, someone tell the developers and County commissioners. Gondolas just might be the salvation lying little matty has claimed them to be. Since this is mostly all private land, there would be alot less hurdles, UTA and UDOT. And unlike the famous squirrel patrol leader peterson, these are real developers that have real finances.
Could it really be, GONDOLAS?
Bill C.,
I was thinking the same thing just the other day! I know I'd rather take a gondola to Powder Mountain than drive a road that will become even more of a deathtrap as the number of cars on it increases exponentially ...
Per Bill C.:
"It's good to see your fangs exposed, could have used a little more of that thru the election."
Exectly right, Bill. It's good to see a little fire in gentle Curm's belly... although the late timing ain't so hot.
Rudi and Bill:
Just for the record, I took after the Godfrey administration throughout the election [and long before] for its secrecy and opposition to open government repeatedly, and in much stronger terms than [so far] I've applied to the Republican Weber County Commissioner and the Ogden City clerk for their stonewalling the press and public on the voter rolls screw up and provisional ballot mess in Ogden. You guys have short memories....
BTW, Rudi, is that "little bird" still singing to you? None of the rest of us have heard word one yet from the Clerk or Ms. Zogmeister since she opted for the Scooter Libby Defense in the SE last week.
Curm,
How can you trust what the SE prints? Are you sure that's what she said or meant, I'm not.
no se fan:
The article contained, as I recall, direct quotes. And so far as I know, the Commissioner has not complained that she was mis-quoted and no correction has run. Given that, I see no reason to doubt the reporting on this unless you have some information the rest of us don't.
The problem with the SE's political reporting has been (a) what they choose not to cover at all and (b) their reluctance to question public officials or to check their answers to what questions the SE does ask. Neither seems to apply here.
Seems to me it makes no more sense to doubt everything that appears in the SE and assume it's inaccurate than it does to accept without question everything that appears in the SE and assume it's entirely true. But no one involved, so far as I know, has complained that the SE got it wrong in this instance.
Post a Comment