There are a couple of political storms raging in east Weber County, each of which we've mentioned briefly within the past week. We referred to the Ogden Valley Property Tax Revolt in our WCF article on Sunday, and to the Powder Mountain rezoning proposal in yesterday's WCF article.
The Salt Lake Tribune has an article today updating the latter story, wherein Kristen Moulton reports that the rezoning proposal, which was tabled by the Ogden Valley Township Planning Commission on Tuesday, is set for further discussion this evening. We incorporate Ms. Moulton's pertinent paragraphs below:
OGDEN - Powder Mountain's new owners, who want to transform it into a world-class resort, will have to wait a few more weeks to learn if planning commissioners will back their effort to rezone 4,400 mountaintop acres.While this is a story that hasn't been discussed in any great depth on Weber County Forum, we are certain that at least a few of our readers may have some sympathy with our neighbors to the east, who are seemingly having this project shoved down their throats. Moreover, we're sure that at least some of our readers, who ski and snowboard at the currently user friendly Powder Mountain Area, will believe they have a stake in this matter.
After more than four hours of testimony - most of it from Ogden Valley residents opposed to the rezoning - the Ogden Valley Township Planning Commission tabled the proposal Tuesday night.
The panel will reconsider it today. ...
Opponents of the rezoning raised a host of issues, including the steep grade of Powder Mountain's only paved access road and whether Ogden Valley wants a mountaintop golf-and-ski community that could affect watersheds, wildlife habitat and traffic congestion.
For more information on the key issues, we provide a link to a great east county blog, Ogden Valley Utah Forum, where interested readers can find detailed information about the issues in dispute.
As a convenience to interested readers we also link here the full text of the subject re-zoning proposal.
And for those readers who may have reticence about meddling in the affairs of our neighboring communities, we'll note that it's a little late for that, inasmuch as one of our own "development at all costs" Ogden characters has already been meddling full steam, through the merciless use of his infamous multi-colored/multi-fonted email spam, to tip the balance of political power in favor of the resort developers.
Tonight's planning commission session is scheduled for 5:00 p.m. in the Weber County Commission Chambers, 2380 Washington Blvd., Ogden. We hope some of our interested readers will plan to attend. And for those WCForum denizens who may be unable to be there, we provide an email link to Scott Mendoza of the Weber County planning staff: smendoza@co.weber.ut.us
Update 11/30/07 7:55 a.m. MT: The Standard-Examiner has a story about the results of last night's Ogden Valley Planning Commission meeting, in which Marshall Thompson reports that the commissioners have laid out a list of conditions precedent to the grant on commission approval. Among these would be the construction by the developer of a second access road. There appear to be two options which have been considered by the developer, either of which could be a deal-breaker. A road to the east of the development (which is apparently subject to an existing right of way) would cross an existing conservation easement, which would invite litigation from adjoining property owners. A road to the north into Cache County has been all but ruled out by Cache County officials, due to strong opposition from Cache County citizens.
A second reported condition, a required "buffer zone" between resort residential properties and the resort boundary (adjacent to state wildlife and federal lands) may raise a conflict of interest with one of the commissioners, Jamie Lythgoe, a grand-daughter of the original grantor (the Cobabe family), who retains a property interest in a 215 acre parcel which is apparently situated within the buffer zone. Although Ms. Lythgoe evidently went to significant lengths to ensure that no conflict of interest existed with respect to the resort property, the existence of her interest in the buffer zone property again raises the question of whether Ms. Lythgoe should be recused from the planning process with respect to this proposed development.
The matter has been reportedly continued for further hearing on December 10; and the commission will consider additional citizen input up to 10:00 a.m. next Tuesday.
30 comments:
Great idea if the developers pay for the road and all of its videl needs.
No taxpayers money period!!!!!
I am so sick and tired of the way development gets done here in Utah. Why have planners, why have planning commissions, why not have rubber stamps for City Councils? Developers get their way regardless of whether or not projects are in the best interest of the community. There are soooo many issues w/ this development that aren't going to be addressed until after the project is completed (and it will be done w/ very few concessions). By the time the issues get addressed Weber and Cache Counties will be up to their eyeballs in problems and developers will have taken their $ and ran.
Thanks for the post Rudi. It is truly a sad state of affairs in our County. The planners and developers know that if they do the right thing and REJECT the proposal, then it will simply be appealled to the County Commissioners. And the County Commissioners will surely reverse the Ogden Valley Planning Commission decision and give the developers all they want, as they have done many times. As reported in the Standard, the developer even wants to have the issue denied so he can appeal to the developer friendly Commission.
We say it is time for an overhaul of the commission, and will urge for the lower Valley's support during the next election.
Different Subject but incredible1
Today's Sub-Standard has another Schwebke article "Gondola still on the radar" (C-1) which gives further proof that Mayor Godfrey has to be a schizophrenic because I do not personally believe that Jesse Garcia hallucinates.
Garcia is quoted as saying that over lunch two weeks ago with Mayor Godfrey, the Mayor stated that the Malan's Basin gondola "has never been taken off the radar".
BUT ACCORDING TO SCHWEBKE, GODFREY SAID THAT "that" CONVERSATION WITH GARCIA DID NOT TAKE PLACE.
So did Schwebke just dream this up in order to write another piece about the Gondola; did Jesse Garcia just dream that it happened;
or
do we now have the final proof that Matthew Godfrey is the liar that we all have come to believe that he is?
Valley:
When Weber County voters elect an all-Republican County commission, they get the kind of development-at-any-cost decisions you're talking about. I believe in the last election, the Upper Ogden Valley returned a substantial majority for its Republican County Commissioner, didn't it?
We get the government we deserve, God help us.
take your pick -
Interesting points you bring up.
The bottom line of the Schwebke article is that you have the Mayor of Ogden calling the Chair of the Ogden City Council a liar in a news article that will be distributed in Utah and who knows where else.
That doesn't enhance Ogden's image as a place to live in and/or do business in.
It really is incredible behaviour for the Mayor of a city that the Mayor touts as being such a business friendly environment..
Take Your Pick:
Godfrey never took the gondola off the table in the campaign... though he did pull off [with Standard Examiner assistance] his Incredible Disappearing Gondola Act by avoiding talking about it during the campaign.
The real news in the story is Godfrey's saying that he's waiting for Mr. Chris Peterson to bring forth new plans for Malan's Basin and an up-mountain gondola, which the Mayor expects him to do sometime between "two months" to "two years" from now. That's right. After assuring us all that Mr. Peterson was just weeks or months away from presenting his finalized "Peterson Proposal" to the city over the previous two years, Peterson's Poodle [aka Mayor Godfrey] now says he's willing to wait for another to years to see if Peterson will produce a plan after all.
And while he dithers for another two years, perhaps as he says he is willing to do, he will continue to oppose the transit route between downtown, WSU and McKay Dee Hospital that the Wasatch Front Regional Council identified as the one Ogden needs most and would be most successful. He will oppose that to "save" that route for his gondola obsession. And so the improved Ogden transit line that would most benefit Ogden --- street car or bus rapid transit --- will be stalled again [as costs continue to rise], federal subsidies will not be applied for, all to services the Mayor's dwindling hopes for his gondola obsession that rests upon Mr. Peterson actually producing, maybe, over the next two years, the oft-promised [by the Mayor] Peterson proposal he failed to produce over the previous two years. Provided the plan, should it ever actually appear, is economically viable and can find investors to support Mr. Peterson's Malan's Basin World Class Vest Pocket Ski Resort.
And the beat goes on....
The SE story Take Your Pick refers to can be found here.
Oh, one more thing. Mr. Schwebke's story includes this line: However, Godfrey has refused to sell the golf course and adjoining property to Peterson because of concerns from residents who fear the city’s trail system in the foothills along the East Bench would be adversely affected.
That line has got to make Mr. Schwebke a contender for the Credulous Reporter of the Month award. That line means the Standard Examiner has accepted the Mayor's mid-campaign explanation of why he took the park sale off the table. Nothing to do with its polling badly for him. Nothing to do with the park sale creating voter problems for him on the east bench, aka his "base." At the very least, the next time Mr. Schweke trots this one out, he could add two simple words to the sentence: "he said." E.g.:
However, Godfrey has refused to sell the golf course and adjoining property to Peterson because, he said, of concerns from residents who fear the city’s trail system in the foothills along the East Bench would be adversely affected.
That way, Mr. Schwebke will be simply reporting the Mayor's claim, rather than rendering a silent judgment about its accuracy.
The UTA article was an eye opener, too. UTA may cut services due to a shortfall in tax dollars? That would be a shame. At this point in time we need more and better transit, not cutbacks.
walker,
This article hit me between the eyes.
Governor Huntsman and the Legislature said we had so much extra cash lying around that they cut the sales tax on some foods.
That way Huntsman is known for cutting taxes, etc.
Now citizens are supposed to make up that big sales tax cut on foods by putting in a tax for Weber County citizens or we don't get adequate bus service..
Why in the h--- are we talking about spending new money for a street car or a trolley or a gondola when we can't even afford to run the buses we presently have!
Who dreamed this doozie up?
UTA is simply plaing power politics.
I see Salt Lake County has already bent over.
Back in my old neighborhood, we called it blackmail, but I'm sure they have a nicer word for it here in the land of Zion.
Saying the Powder Mountain re-zone has no tax funding is misleading.
Turning that much land over to development will have huge societal costs, none of which will be borne by the developer and land owner, and all of which will be borne by the public.
To make it cost neutral, what should happen, is that the developer should be required to calculate how much more the land will be worth purely by virtue of the re-zone, and pay that amount to the county. That should be the starting point.
People in California have begun to figure out that development is as much or more negative than positive.
A side issue: Why is Bob Geiger so keen on this? It appears the man never saw a bulldozing he didn't like. How do we start a letter writing campaign to Descente to tell them how much we don't appreciate his attitude, his meddling and his misbehavior?
jersey jim and walker,
The financial bungle that was made by the Wasatch Regional Council orchestrated by UTA's lawyer and the Mayor of West Vally City is far from over in what it will cost the taxpayers.
I happened to be present at the Audit Committee meeting when the auditors announced the multiplication trick that had been used instead of the voted on division method that was to have been applied.
The problem is that UTA understood and did the deal on believing that that the terms of the bonds included funds for O & M (operation and maintenance) forevermore.
Senator Valentine was so concerned about the audit findings that he called for an attorney to bring in the big book on the statutes on bonding. It was determined once again that it is illegal for bond proceeds to be used for O & M.
That means that at some point in the future UTA will be back to the public trough for taxpayers to take care of bookoo big bucks to pay for O & M on all this new transit system that is being put in..
That was the meeting where Speaker Greg Curtis almost cried because he realized what he had pushed through in the House.
Greg Curtis admitted before all of us that he had been "snookered" and the bill should never have been passed..
Greg Curtis also said repeatedly that the bill was passed last January in too big of a hurry because of pressure to get it done quickly so nobody got the fine print worked out.
Where have I heard that excuse before..it must be where Godfrey and the Ogden RDA got their ideas for pushing things through before they have all the fine print either.
So much for our legislators knowing what they are doing.
In Las Vegas before a developer was given permission for his development in Summerlin he had to widen the street, landscape, provide water to the plants, light the street and make other improvements. I believe it was a Del Webb project. In some Utah cities there are no impact fees, or improvements required prior to most developments approval. Look at traveling Midland in West Haven at 5 PM, all those new homes and a two way street. The cost should be added to every home being built rather than passing all needed improvements to the current residents. They will still buy if that is where they want to live. Bringing down our quality of life just for the sake of any development is unthhical. More diversity is needed in all aspects of both the city and county government, remember that the next election, one party one idea. You get what you pay for.
Stunningly, I agree with the major thrust of the argument set forth by the Poet Laureate of Milquetoastian Impartiality, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon: Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey and his Divining Rod Forehead actually believe the leader of his own famed Squirrel Patrol, Wayne Peterson, will produce a "proposal" for a roadless resort and fairy-tale castle in Malan's Basin, which will feature automatic sprinklers, be sewer-serviced via shit orbs, will include GONDOLA systems, and will have magical dwarves standing as sentinels. The poor, deluded sociopathic child! His forehead is way off-kilter. The Squirrel Patrol meeting at Snowbasin between the evil Harrisville midget and Wayne was reportedly a lover's tiff, and I surmise that perhaps Mr. Patagonia Vest, he of the Thorazine prediliction, tried to persuade the little liar one last time to give up our public lands. Maybe Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey has an honest bone in his Lord Littlebrook's champion physique! We will see, of course, any time between two months and two years from now. The soldiers of the famed Squirrel Patrol must shake their heads when their leader crawls out of his cave and mumbles; they've been dupes all along, but they've got their heads so far up their GONDOLAS, they can't see the forest through the trees -- or, in their cases, the onions through the reeds.
Vestibule.
Reminder: Water Rate Meeting for Ogden Tonight
From the City Council:
The Ogden City Council will hold its Water Horizons town meeting tonight at 6 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the Municipal Building, which is located at 2549 Washington Boulevard. The Council... will present their plan to address the water, storm sewer and sanitary sewer issues that face the City and its residents.
The proposed rate changes will also be discussed. Residents will have an opportunity to share their opinions and ask questions during the public comment portion of the meeting.
Also, an open house will be held beginning at 5:30 p.m. During the open house, residents will have the opportunity to talk with Council and City staff, view and take home videos relative to Water Horizons and water conservation, look at maps of areas that will receive upgrades and more.
Jason W wrote: Stunningly, I agree with the major thrust of the argument set forth by the Poet Laureate of Milquetoastian Impartiality, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon.
Ah, my faith as a liberal restored! Everyone, even Jason W. is capable of learning and of improvement! I knew it!
If this proposal is ever approved, either by the Ogden Valley Planning Commission, or the Weber County Commisission, most long-time Ogden Valley residents can kiss their family legacy/rural properties good-bye.
If you voted Republican in the last election, it's time to think about attending your party's March Caucuses, and start ousting the real estate company executives who now dominate our Utah legislature.
Yes. There are now more real estate brokers in the state legislature than lawyers.
2008 would be a fine time to send them all packing back to the private sector.
Walker: Don't lose hope. Concerned citizens managed to run off one crazed developer who was hoping to "transform Powder Mountain to reach its full potential" five years ago, when Brent Ferrin encountered so many roadblocks and so much opposition that he and his associates pulled out of a deal to buy the resort.
Until someone solves the issue of the Powder Mountain road being the only route of access, those opposed to PM (over)development have a powerful argument.
Curm, last night as I read your post regarding the impractical holographic assinine ice tower and housing structure, I couldn't help but wonder if you've been behind the garage nipping KOOL-AID with the geiger's and lying little matty. You suggested that uniqueness is a very valid reason for this city to engage in the absurd.
PT Barnum for mayor? 600 pound women with mustaches, eight legged puppies, a John Mereck statue all are unique, would you be willing to hang the fortunes and future of this city on things like this? How about a real life giant termite mound imported from Ethiopia?
Curm, be careful indulging in that KOOL-AID. As you may have seen, evidenced by short decks injecting himself into Ogden Valley issues thru spam e-mails, that KOOl-AID is powerful stuff, and there is no antidote.
The SL Trib had a pretty good editorial today about the great municipal court scam. Se it here:
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_7582442
A link to the SL Trib editorial Ozboy discusses above is here.
Bill:
What I said was, if the Ice Tower has a good business plan behind it, it could be a plus for downtown Ogden. It does fit with trying to market the city as an outdoors/adventure base camp [so to speak] for all kinds of mountain sports. And you won't be able to find one at the Layton mall or on the Riverdale strip. With a good business plan behind Ogden Climbing Parks [yes, even non-profits need a sound business plan to be self-sustaining], I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
Come on, Bill. It's hardly the same as "a real life giant termite mound imported from Ethiopia?" It isn't uniqueness alone that might make it worth it. It's being related to other Ogden draws [climbing, skiing, outdoors draws in general] and having a good business plan behind it that might make it a good idea. Whether such a business plan, providing for continued funding for operations, marketing, maintenance, and so on, as well as involving a market study based on fact and research rather than wishin' and hopin' and dreamin' exists, I don't know. But if one does, and it's sound, then yes, the uniqueness of the venue could be a plus.
Downtown Ogden doesn't have acres upon acres of space for parking [nor should it]. Nor is it going to have [please god!] half a dozen big box stores within five minutes drive of each other like Riverdale. People need reasons to come to downtown Ogden and that means, so far as I can see, finding things in downtown Ogden they cannot find at every damn mall from Brigham City to Spanish Fork. A successful full-year ice climbing tower might work as park of the mix of Ogden's unique draws.
I said might, not will, and then only if a sound business plan has been worked out to make its being self-sustaining without constant infusions of public funds probable.
If RAMP put $200K into it, I presume whoever made that decision got a look at some financials and projections that made the investment seem prudent. [I do not presume the Mayor did when he promoted another $50K in public money. Getting facts before investing the public's money is not, as we know, his style.]
Ah Curmudgeon there lies the rub! "Smart business plan" and Godfrey? Never happen, the two just simply do not co-exist in the real world. Incidentally a business plan of any sort, smart or dumb, will not make a turkey fly. However, a smart biz plan will be able to tell you that one will or won't fly. Our $25 million dollar Wreck center (PeeWee's playhouse) is a good example. Had there been any sort of smart Biz Plan researched and executed in front, the friggen place would never have been built. As it was, Godfrey just scoffed at people that suggested an independent Biz plan be prepared. They forged ahead with this enormous public project based solely on a half assed excuse for a plan prepared by the fat guy from Golds and the numb skull from Fat Cats, the very two people that are benefitting to the tune of millions in their pocket from this folly.
Oz:
You wrote: However, a smart biz plan will be able to tell you that one will or won't fly.
Well, not exactly. It will give you the probabilities, or a good one will, but not certainties. But when I said "good business plan" I meant exactly what you're pointing out: one that involved market studies, etc. so the Council could make a sound judgment on the probability of success [which is never 100%] and so on the prudence of making the investment with the public's money. Instead of basing decisions on the usual medley of wishin' and hopin' and dreamin' and the unexamined self-serving claims of those hoping to be subsidized, which is what often comprises the mix of "evidence" Our Mayor likes to present to the Council to justify what he proposes.
Can anyone explain how the Ice Tower will enhance Ogden's Blue Sky Community Challenge? How much energy will be wasted trying to keep a gigantic ice cube frozen, in the summertime?
Good question, icescream. Perhaps I spoke too soon yesterday when I said I have nothing against the ice tower. If it uses huge amounts of energy (which seems likely), then a treehugger like me probably shouldn't endorse it.
The mayor often relies on inspiration to tell him if a program will succeed or not. He most definitely does not like to hear any opposition once he has concluded in his own mind that a certain course is to be followed, regardless of the source or validity of the information. He also does not put any faith in experts, even his own, that disagree with his faith based conclusions, and he is known to ban any one on the team that does not subscribe to his conclusions no matter how thinly they are based.
Guest editorial in this morning's SE, by Roy City Police Chief, in defense of ticket quotas and wondering why the flack about it is focused on Ogden.
Anyone remember about 6 years ago, in OGDEN, the city randomly swapped out 35 mph signs for 25 mph signs -- then skulked in the bushes to catch the unaware public for driving 35 mph on a road which was 35 mph the day before, but 25 mph today - and giving out tickets or traffic school invitations.
I got traffic school. Then about 3-6 months later the signs mysteriously changed back to 35 mph!
Tell me again the traffic ticket quota is not designed to be a cash cow for the city? Think, think, think -- who was the reigning short forehead about 6 years ago? [ sorry to steal your forehead label, Jason, but I like it :-) ]
TLJ
TLJ:
Maybe what needs looking into, as well as "gotcha!" speed traps, is the "traffic school" business. When the justice court includes traffic school in the punishment for traffic violations, does the city get a cut of the tuition [so to speak]? Are traffic school assignments another cash cow source for cities/towns in Utah? Are there any statistics to show that attending mandatory traffic schools as a part of ticket punishments has any measurable impact on the driving of those who attend? Do they tend to get few traffic citations after having attended? And so on....
Look, if traffic schools work, if there's evidence that making people who get tickets attend them and pay for them, fine with me. But if there is no evidence that they work, if we [the people of Ogden] derive no benefit from them, then seems to me there is little point to continuing to assign traffic violators to them.
Does anybody know? Or are traffic school assignments just another one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" programs that no one can show work, but that continue on, year after year, anyway?
What good newspapers do with campaign statistics....
The NY Times today has a stirling example on its front page of how good newspapers deal with inflated campaign claims based on alleged statistical evidence. Here's the headline:
Citing Statistics, Giuliani Misses Time and Again
And the opening graphs:
In almost every appearance as he campaigns for the Republican presidential nomination, Rudolph W. Giuliani cites a fusillade of statistics and facts to make his arguments about his successes in running New York City and the merits of his views.
Discussing his crime-fighting success as mayor, Mr. Giuliani told a television interviewer that New York was “the only city in America that has reduced crime every single year since 1994.” In New Hampshire this week, he told a public forum that when he became mayor in 1994, New York “had been averaging like 1,800, 1,900 murders for almost 30 years.” When a recent Republican debate turned to the question of fiscal responsibility, he boasted that “under me, spending went down by 7 percent.”
All of these statements are incomplete, exaggerated or just plain wrong.
Please note: this is not a editorial or op ed piece. This is a story by a reporter, checking the facts, looking at campaign rhetoric statistical claims and seeing if they check out. In short, this is real journalism and real reporting at work. As compared, say, to what the SE didn't do with respect to the statistics-based claims of the candidates in the recent Mayoral race, opting instead to resign its responsibility to report in favor of the laziness of "he said/she said" passing on of the statistical claims, unexamined in the news columns.
Granted, there are shades of gray, areas of legitimate disagreement and interpretation. But sometimes a claim can be held up against certifiable fact, and can be show to be either right or wrong. And in such cases, it is the responsibility of a decent newspaper to do that.
And the story doesn't stop with Guliani alone. From the story:
Mr. Giuliani is not alone in citing statistics in a questionable way. Last month, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, said that financing for the National Institutes of Health had decreased under President Bush; it has increased. Senator Barack Obama, Democrat of Illinois, said the national debt had doubled under President Bush; it has not.
Again from the article:
In a recent radio advertisement by the campaign about his health care proposal, Mr. Giuliani repeated another false statement that he had been using on the campaign trail. In the advertisement Mr. Giuliani, who has had prostate cancer, asserted that his chances of surviving prostate cancer in the United States were 82 percent, while his chance of surviving in England would have been only 44 percent. His point was that the American health care system is far superior to England’s government-run system, which he refers to as “socialized medicine.”
The figure came from an article written by one of Mr. Giuliani’s health care advisers, but was soon discredited: the source of the research that was used to derive the statistic said that its data had been misused. The Office for National Statistics in Britain said that the true five-year survival rate was 74.4 percent — still lower than in the United States, but by a much smaller margin. Mr. Giuliani stood by the statistic, however, and kept using the advertisement....
Would the results of the recent election have been different had the SE decided to be a good newspaper, and had its editors dispatched its reporters to do real journalism? Can't say. No one can. But it would have been nice to have found out. Nice to have it established, by the SE, that it intended to check every claim by a candidate that could be verified one way or the other. And that, post election, it intended as a matter of fulfilling its civic responsibility and of its commitment to the highest standards of journalism, to take every press release, every speech, every announcement of a public official [elected or appointed] that made a claim of fact and check it out to see if it stood up.
It's never to late to get better at what you do. Maybe the editors of the SE will stumble across the NYT piece. If so, I hope they take notes. Checking the claims of candidates and public officials against the facts is what good journalists, and good newspapers, do. Funneling press releases to the subscribers unexamined is not.
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